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To respond to the challenging times we are living through, physician, humanitarian and social justice advocate Dr. Paul Zeitz has identified “Revolutionary Optimism” as a new cure for hopelessness, despair, and cynicism. Revolutionary Optimism is itself an infectious, contagious, self-created way of living and connecting with others on the path of love. Once you commit yourself as a Revolutionary Optimist, you can bravely unleash your personal power, #unify with others, and accelerate action for our collective repair, justice, and peace, always keeping love at the center.
Announcer - 00:00:03:
Welcome to Revolutionary Optimism. Living at this time in history, we are challenged with the convergence of crises that is affecting our daily lives. Issues like economic hardship, a teetering democracy, and the worsening climate emergency have left many Americans feeling more despair than ever. To respond to the challenging times we are living through, physician, humanitarian, and social justice advocate Dr. Paul Zeitz has identified Revolutionary Optimism as a new cure for hopelessness, despair, and cynicism. Once you commit yourself as a revolutionary optimist, you can bravely unleash your personal power, #unify with others, and accelerate action for our collective repair, justice, and peace. On this podcast, Dr. Zeitz is working to provide you with perspectives from leaders fighting for equity, justice, and peace on their strategies, insights, and tools for overcoming adversity and driving forward revolutionary transformation with unbridled optimism and real-world pragmatism. In this episode, Dr. Zeitz is once again talking with Dr. Marcus Anthony Hunter, a distinguished author, sociologist, and professor at the University of California, Los Angeles. His expertise spans urban sociology, race and ethnicity, and social inequality. Marcus is the author of the new book, Radical Reparations, Healing the Soul of a Nation. Let's dive into a conversation that explores the vision of radical reparations and global perspectives on racial equity. Here's your host, Dr. Paul Zeitz .
Paul - 00:01:35:
Welcome, Dr. Hunter. It's an honor to have you on my podcast again in 2024. How are you today?
Marcus - 00:01:43:
Hey, loving it. Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be back with you.
Paul - 00:01:47:
I love the badge of love on your heart.
Marcus - 00:01:50:
Yeah, shout out to Ron Bass, you know, the artist who did this collection that I love, and to Yellow, as you know, I'm an optimist as well.
Paul - 00:02:00:
For sure, for sure. You're one of my great mentors and inspirations, and I'm so excited to be with you today as you're launching your new book, Radical Reparations: Healing the Soul of a Nation. Thank you so much for this work that you created. And I would love to ask you to share a little bit about the book. And no spoiler alerts, please. Tease everyone into reading the book. And I want to share, ask more questions, because I've actually had the honor to read the book, and it's like working on me. So I want to explore some things that have come up for me.
Marcus - 00:02:38:
Yeah, no, thank you. Radical Reparations: Healing the Soul of a Nation, is the culmination of over 15 years of scholarship, research, and also spiritual development and journey for myself. And finding the best way to do what the great sociologist Lauryn Hill says, to see this mixture with hip hop meets scripture, develop a negative into a positive picture. So, how do I take something that people have negative feelings about, you know, or is very divisive, like reparations, or people sort of already think they know what they know already. And in order to have a conversation about it, you have to go through a lot of painful truth and a painful, truthful awareness about our history of how we got here. The violence, the brutality, the human hierarchy that got us here. How do I do that in a way that is different? And reflects, you know, all of the things that I've said before, but also. Can reach as many people as possible. And so an activist that we've gotten a chance to know in our work together is Liz Medicine Crow, an Alaskan indigenous woman who leads the Truth, Racial Healing and Transformation fight in one of the reddest states in the United States, so it tells us what's possible, is she has a proverb, the shortest distance between people is a story. And I think, you know, that meant I had to write stories, you know, and I had to do my research about what kind of stories I was going to write and go to those people who have done this before me and figure out the best way to tell alternate history where forms of reparations have happened to anchor this idea that there are at least seven forms of reparations. Political, intellectual, legal, economic, spiritual, spatial and social. And those piles of reparations are what's out there for us to all collectively manifest and make happen in this life. And how do I do that? How do I tell that and also tell the politics of our times and what's really going on and how I entered into it? So Radical Reparations, the book, is a reflection of all of those things put into five chapters.
Paul - 00:05:06:
Okay, thanks, Marcus, for sharing that. It's great to hear the insight of the author that created this tapestry the book is, it's like a journey. Through history and time and space, from the past into the future, kind of forcing me to reimagine the present also. So you told me a couple of weeks ago that one of your intentions was, to unlock political imagination. So you use parables in the book and you there's something about the use of parables and story, you know, through the like the from the Liz Medicine Crow teaching about the power of story. Can you explain the power of parable and the power of how that can unlock political imagination?
Marcus - 00:05:54:
Yeah. You know, when I realized I was going to have to come out of the closet as a storyteller who happens to also be a sociologist, I then went to source information. And one source that a lot of people know already is the Bible, you know, and the power of stories and particularly in the Christian tradition, the power of Jesus's parables. So there are so many parables that we know. Then there's a legendary professor, law professor by trade, but I think he too, a sociologist and political scientist, Professor Derrick Bell. And he has a book, Faces at the Bottom of the Well, and he has a series of parables that he tells, one of which inspired George Clinton, to do what was called cosmic slop on the space traders idea where aliens come to the United States and they say, we will give you, you know, clean water. We will reverse all of the ice melting. We will make you rich. We'll give you everything that you need. Give us your black people. And there's this whole conversation that happens in this parable that he wrote. Where, basically to make a long story short, we might not be surprised by what happens, to the black people by the end of that parable. Okay. And so that was another resource. And then one of the, a lot of them, but three touchstones for me are the two so far. And then Octavia Butler's, The Parable of the Sower. And it begins. All that you touch, you change. All that you change, changes you. The only lasting truth is change. God is change. I will always remember that. So powerful what she says there. And it really unlocks the, I think, courage to really try to demonstrate history using alternate history and creatively trying to say, if I trust myself, I trust that you will understand the place in your mind I am trying to touch. The part of you that I trust is their own person, has their own thoughts, has their own dreams, aspirations, and intentions. And I'm not trying to make you do something. I want you to imagine yourself doing something. How do you do that? And the best way to do that was to create worlds that were similar and also unfamiliar. And to me, to make a very important connection. Which is, you know, we think about The Matrix or everything, everywhere, all at once, which is about the kind of like infinite realities, the simulation that we're in or being in a matrix. And I think people do a disservice to themselves when there isn't a full acceptance and awareness that the simulation that we're in as human beings right now for the last, however many hundreds of years is the product of the global slave trade. The product of a system that said that because of someone's skin color and origin, they are not human and you can own them and you cannot pay them. And that is a fundamental foundation of our simulation. And I think if we can start seeing it as not just in America, but also in Africa, thinking about those two nodes in that story and how it's spread so far that we have to ask ourselves, why are we not leaning into the legacy of slavery to repair all that we need? Why are we not seeing it that way? So the parable is a way to tell stories that help, I think, point people in a direction of what if slavery is a
Paul - 00:09:51:
premise? I was really struck on your point about linking the slavery to our times now and how the legacy of slavery is alive in our social, economic, and political systems. Reality you i think you're you're calling our simulation our reality right that's what you're saying So it's very much alive in our politics, in our economic and social systems right now. And globally, there are the global manifestations of this. Like you say, the lie that there's a hierarchy of human value based on skin color. That's a lie. We have to dismantle that lie. That is not true.
Marcus - 00:10:33:
Well, I would say, well, first shout out to Dr. Gill Christopher, always in that conversation. But I will say something that might be a little bit challenging for folks who may not like this, but I am not as invested in dismantling. I think we have to be very mindful about the time and energy we have in this life while we're here. And if we spend all of that very precious resource called our time and energy and dismantling the tools of things that have oppressed or maligned us, what have we built? And that's what I think is important is to really think about, you know, for example, one of the most famous proverbs, the Audre Lorde, The Master's Tools Will Never Dismantle the Master's House. So dismantling. She's telling us, I think, something very significant there that doesn't get spoken about that much. One is The Master's Tools Will Never Dismantle the Master's House. Because he didn't build it. The master told the slaves what he wanted and they built it. So it's the tools of the oppressed that can do the work of creating a whole other reality. And so I think that sentence talks about dismantling as never because that is not the object. That should not be the purpose or the focus. It should be building. Whenever the tribes of Israel return home, they always build a new wall. New wall was built, the wall of Judah. You build a new one as opposed to tearing down the thing that failed you. You build something bigger and better that at some point the other thing goes in such disrepair because no one's invested in that wall anymore. The new wall is glorious. So I think it's also pulling from that source material that says, what if the best way to dismantle something is to build something that towers over it and makes it in a shadow of what it once was? So that's also just something I believe on many levels. And I think it's part of what you learn from the South Africa example. They did not dismantle South Africa. You know, that could have happened. It could have been parceled off into a bunch of different, you know, townships of their own statehood. A bunch of stuff could have happened. And it was this agreement to believe in a place called South Africa and to build forward from that. And I think that's important, I think, to Mark and know at least about myself, you know.
Paul - 00:13:14:
Thank you so much for that perspective. And I totally agree with you about, you know, the intention about building the new future and focusing on that and manifesting that, imagineering that, visioning that, then manifesting it. And visioning plus manifesting is called imagineering. And so I think the book, you know, really does that a lot. I was like really impressed by your storytelling. I was like, wow, this author really was very imaginative. And, you know, it also seems so real to me because I have, you know, I've been to all the places that you talked about, you know, the United States and the South and the North. And you also go to Uganda and South Africa and Israel. And I think maybe the United Kingdom somewhere in there. I don't remember.
Marcus - 00:14:14:
Right. Yes. Uh-huh. Yeah. That's, that's the thing as well. Uh-huh. Yep.
Paul - 00:14:19:
I found that so interesting that the parables of all these stories that are, some of them are, they're transcending time and space. Some of them are moving fast. Some of them are long over, you know, long blocks of time. So, yeah.
Marcus - 00:14:37:
Yeah, I think that I'm glad you say that because one of the. One of the things that I wanted to play with, but also be intentional about why I was doing it was the aspect and concept of time. And part of it is because one of the few approximations we have for money that isn't cash, because one of my big points is that, you know, true reparations is about more than money. And so then it's like, what are compliments to money or things that we see synonymous with money? One of the only surviving phrases is time is money. So that means if I can do things with time, I'm showing you possibilities about what money is or is not or what money can be. And so, for example-
Paul - 00:15:30:
I might have to re-read the book. That's why this show is so important, because you're giving us these pearls and frames. Like I would I would I have to reread the book now with that wisdom now, okay.
Marcus - 00:15:43:
Yeah. So that's a that's a key. That's a key technique. And in the work of that book is the principle of time. And also to say we also hear, for example, reparations is an idea whose time has come or the time is now. And so to really think about what time is. So in one parable, the time is about, you know, two weeks. You know, to see Alita. And now something's been going on for over 100 years, but you're in two weeks time with this place. And it is a substantial amount of time that you have as a reader. The next one is happening in 24 hours, 24 hours, as long in terms of page length as the previous story. And the last one is 200 years of time. You know, And to see how many different things are going on. And I think one of the things that I even, in my research and thinking about the history of apartheid and the importance of South Africa to telling a reparation story, because they are one of few nations that have courageously dared to lean into that and try it out. And so they have some of their scars to show it. And learning from those things about South Africa, I thought, what better place to still teach us about Africa, about what reparative justice is or isn't, for people to kind of figure out like, oh, there was a place where there was no apartheid and apartheid happens. Like what if you're living in a place and then the thing we identify as the most repressive regime happens? You know, like there was a period of life where it was not a part of your life. And so it dismantles your life when it comes. And I think that's another way to think about what we're repairing, you know, and how to think about the global conversation. So time is-
Paul - 00:17:42:
That's what I was so like. I was so struck by the while I was reading this book. The book also goes to is like in West Africa and India, too. I don't know if you know this, but I lived in Nigeria for a few period of my life. And I'm wearing a South African Mandela shirt in honor of Nelson Mandela and the freedom struggle that he was part of as a as a opportunity to. Garner the spirit of possibility from those successful movements that you're describing. The book also opened my heart to all the suffering. It was like it got personal. You connect it to the character. So it was a way of unlocking my heart to feel the pain and suffering. And then, you know. Just having to deal with that, that reality. And then of course, seeing how it all relates till today. So thank you for sharing the PILES acronym. I think that is an important framework for all of my listeners and the entire world and the American public and other countries, right? This is a global journey of repair, truth-telling, and reparations, or reparations, repair, and truth-telling, whatever order you want to put that in. This is a global phenomena. So political, intellectual, legal, economics, spiritual, spatial, and social, all of those elements of reparations, it expands the aperture and makes us understand that it's not what, it's the idea of what people think it is. It's way beyond that. And it's way more transformative. And I think this is so key for healing and repair. And that's why I feel like my heart is pumping with joy, you know, because of the work that we do together and where we're trying to manifest equity and love and repair. In our time. So I feel like maybe I would love to keep talking about the book. Please go out and read this book. I think this is a great book for book clubs. It's like a thing to read with other people. And to you know, explore the issues that come up and the... And the emotions that are stirred. Literally, I couldn't sleep for three nights. I kept having these. Dreams of You know, the suffering and the pain and the, you know, the ships and, you know, all the heartache. And I saw the future of possibility. So it was really, it stirred something in me that I'm still living into.
Marcus - 00:20:30:
Yeah, that's the goal because it then leans into, I hope, people looking at the landscape of our politics with a different lens, with what you would refer to as revolutionary optimism, that you have that in spite of the facts of some of the reality. You have that in spite of what could happen in a presidential election. That is something that you maintain even when there is no evidence that supports it because it's about faith. I think for me, one of the things is that people should have some level of faith in some aspects of our elected officials. There are some who are really trying, who really are, even in an environment where people could have a good reason to just say, no, I don't have to. It's never going to happen. I always want to give it up for Congresswoman Barbara Lee, who contacted me five years ago and brought me in. And she has stayed committed to it this entire time. She's done it in a landscape where many people would have good reason to say, Donald Trump is president. We're not getting anything that's about racial equity happening. But she still introduced it when he was president. Then it could be, well, Joe Biden is in. It's all going to work out. We already have policies on the agenda. Let's just focus on those things. And for her to keep at it and keep encouraging us and then working with her colleagues, Jamaal Bowman, Cori Bush, Sheila Jackson Lee, Jamie Raskin, Senator Booker, working with all of those people so that the drumbeat can still be rolling, even as she's running in a Senate race where she has an uphill climb in that race. She's still doing that. I think for me, that's part of why the book, ends in a space about this is where we are. And we're in a really fortunate place because during the glorious era of the civil rights movement, there was not this progressive slate of legislation already before Congress. That came on the other side of the massive demonstrations. We have a lot of progressive legislation around racial equity that was introduced and being reintroduced. We as people just don't know about it. We don't hear about it. That's not what we're told about. Instead, we're told about, you know, Donald Trump berating the judge in this case. You know, the Iowa caucuses where he's not showing up over here. Is Joe Biden in the basement or not? You know, like there's all of this distraction going on. And then there are people dying in multiple parts of the world. And there's not a sense of what we're doing about that. And so it's really like, oh, that's all we're being fed right now. And I thought if you encounter this book, I want you to be fed with another reality that there are people out here really trying to make that happen. And I see it in part as being something we can all get together in at the Equity March. In June, on June 15th in DC. To have a big Equity March where we demonstrate and gather together, my thought is maybe you've read this book and you're now figuring out how do I meet other people who read it? How do I meet other people? Who are these people Marcus is talking about? Because I also talk about large groups of legislative agendas, like the Poor People's Campaign and the Third Reconstruction resolution that they've been working on. These are things that I hope people encounter in the work and then want to come find those people and be in community with them or support them. Because there's so many amazing people doing a lot of this work and it's just not making it into our media cycles, but I know it and I wanted to share it so that it doesn't just stay in a place of imagination, but imagine if you could marshal all of that inspiration you feel by imagining these places and pour it into the reality, pour it into what's happening now. That's what I would like to people do and also for people to not... Be always, or I should say it this way, to best combat the steady diet of distraction and misinformation about reparations. Like people really do see reparations sometimes as a prisoner's dilemma or a zero-sum game. And that's not the landscape. And if that is the landscape, we can collectively generate one that is more appealing and works better for us. We don't have to accept that in order for you to make right some part or element at your national story and do your healing, that that costs everybody something. And last, I'll say just on the element of healing. Any person who's ever been through any grief or trauma or physical injury. Rarely ever is the healing part the part that people are looking forward to. I can't wait to be laid up in this cast for eight months. I can't wait for that. Oh my gosh, put those braces in now and leave them in for 10 years. That part is never something that most people are looking forward to. But I have never heard a person who has been healed, who has been recovered, not tell you about a glorious experience in their heart that they have now. And so that's what I think about the healing part of the nation's soul or any nation's soul. No nation is going to want to run into that. That's what the people are for. We have to push ourselves into it. But any person who's ever been healed from something, whether it be psychological or physical, has never reported anything other than positive things on the other side of that healing. So that's also what awaits us, is something we don't really want to do being the very best thing we could have ever done.
Paul - 00:26:25:
And may it be so, my friend. It sounds like the work of those years into the book and all of your leadership in our racial equity political movement that you are leading with many other leaders. And now you're manifesting that in two important ways. You're mobilizing political support for legislation. And you talked about a range of different legislation. And can you share with us your vision for racial equity omnibus legislation? I think that's a new concept that is emerging, and I think it would be a great thing to hear your insight on.
Marcus - 00:27:11:
Yeah, you know, one of the goals in terms of a legislative agenda is the whole theme is unity, as you even say in your forthcoming work, #unify. You know, the idea is if we are a united front, it makes our system a bit more accountable, or at least it makes it harder for it to find a way not to do what we're hiring them to do. And so rather than having us always all be siloed into these different policies, because for people who don't know, every policy that exists, there's a work group that is usually everyday folks activating around that, making that happen, working it through the process, encouraging the lead and working with the office to make sure that this keeps going, that all of those work groups have been working really, really, really hard, a lot. And that's exhausting. And so it's also an opportunity to reinvigorate each other, to be in community with each other, that as we go for our individual policies, or as those offices champion those individual components, that we develop something that puts together key features of all of those policies so that everybody gets something. Because as you know, in the system we have, if you can just plant a flag in it, it's easier to build on that, than to build on nothing. Like if you don't have a foundation or an anchor somewhere, it makes it harder to get other components. So it's an all or nothing game. And so it's to create a legislative opportunity, an option that we can advocate for around that supports. Pieces of what everybody else is doing under this idea of equity, which is exactly what got this president's administration into office and is likely going to play a role in convincing voters to vote it in yet again.
Paul - 00:29:08:
So can you give us a brief of the major highlights of the equity vision, legislative vision that you have? What would it include? Can you just give us the top five highlights?
Marcus - 00:29:22:
Yeah. Reparative justice, truth and transformation. I mean, three. I made it simpler. You know, that are those are the key features. There are an inordinate amount of policies, which I said, we are in a place of abundance and a progressive pilot in terms of the policies that officer that members have. There is a lot of it. And so we have a buffet of options. But I think the overall themes that guide this connection is the idea of Reparative justice, truth and equity, bringing those things together and bringing features. Because then what we're building is an infrastructure to support politically and legislatively policies that are about Reparative justice, equity and truth in the present and into the future when none of us are here anymore. That there's a premise already set in our Congress around there being a workup, a building up of a wall around Reparative justice, truth and equity. So that's what the omnibus idea is about. And also an anchor for the equity march on June 15th in DC. Is to have a legislative piece that we can get behind, but also to have an experience that we can also get behind as a march. That is what Bayard Rustin knew, is that you also experience a demonstration. So what kind of experience do we want to have? We want it to be multigenerational. We're very fortunate to have the Black Music Action Coalition. Shout out to Profit and Damian and Karen, all those good people. And also the National Black Justice Coalition. Shout out to Dr. Johns and all of the good people there as initiating partners to create this vision of experience where we march from the Lincoln Memorial, where our contemporaries have ended. That has been the ending point is to start and then move forward into Black Lives Matter Plaza and be met with a music festival environment that integrates speakers and leaders with with artists and then to have people getting information while they're there. And all of that in the Juneteenth date, which is one of I mark only two policies that the administration has successfully legislated execute a legislation on is a Juneteenth holiday. Shout out to Representative Sheila Jackson Lee. And then also stop Asian hate. That's it. So over 72 million people voted for you. Mr. Floyd and Miss Taylor lost their lives and inspired people to vote for you. And they are still waiting for things. And I want that to be having its moment in the sun as an accountability measure for whoever we're voting for.
Paul - 00:32:11:
Wow. So just everyone, June 15th, 2024 is the Equity March that Marcus is-
Marcus - 00:32:19:
Equity March, for sure.
Paul - 00:32:20:
Equity March. Sorry. Equity March. And this is an opportunity to mobilize, rise. Bring busloads, bring car full. Loads. And can you share your vision about there being equity marches across the country that day? You know, if it exploded into the kind of movement that we need to bring forward your vision of repair and. Healing and equity. We need to mobilize a large population of people to say this is the time. Enough is enough. We're not waiting anymore. We want to demand action right now, right in the middle of the election season, you know, when we have a overtly racist MAGA movement that doesn't hide their racism. They're proud of it, you know, against all the other options, that are upon us for the election season coming up. So can you tell us, you know, how do you see that march as part of the political season of the year?
Marcus - 00:33:38:
Yeah, I think the march is... Doing a couple of things at the same time. One, of course, just maximizing a sacred feature of a democracy, which is to publicly demonstrate. And I think to even know we're in a digital age, the age of Aquarius and information, I think it's important to hold on to sacred rituals like demonstrating. It's important that we do that, especially in times like this, where it is really a matter of life and death, if not of your own, but of those not too far from you or in your life. And so I think, you know, getting back to the basics on that, I think is important. On another level, I also think it's a time to maybe reintroduce demonstration to a new generation that might need it to do or feel or look a different way. And we now live in a place where we can intentionally include members of the LGBTQ+ community rather than how we know Bayard Rustin or Ella Baker were made to feel or made to be experienced or Audre Lorde or Marsha P. Johnson, that we can be intentional about being as inclusive as possible because the future that we want. Has space for everybody. Has prosperity for everybody. That's the future that I think if you really get down to it, that's what we want. So that racism, isn't something that we're having to tend to, which is sometimes my disposition around anti-racism, it's a tending to racism. So you're spending a lot of time over there rather than creating a reality, a simulation, a experience that makes it so race will have you opt out of the best experience that the humankind has ever seen. We could be doing that. So that those who are opting into that will realize they're opting out of something way more beautiful, way more fulfilling. And then you have to start asking yourself and those who are feeding you a diet of staying over there. So what's the what's the good thing about this? How does this really turn out? Well, why is this the greatest thing ever? I want to be a part of that world. That world is popping. That world is lit. I want to be over there. And I think that's why it's so hard to pull people out of, out of disrepair, out of disillusionment, out of sadness or depression about the times. It's because we're not actively building something that is beautiful and loving and inclusive that I'm opting into. I want to be there. I want to be at that party. And that's what I think we can be building through the Equity March is a sign and a symbol of that, a lighthouse of building that kind of world where we don't always have to attend to hate and racism and phobias just because they are the loudest. We can make them less loud just by being loud about what we're building over here and making those who are responsible for helping build it accountable because we vote for you. We pay taxes and we have a right. You know, when they say life in the pursuit of happiness, that isn't just a declaration. That's a spiritual awareness of knowing that happiness is a birthright. That is a birthright. That is not something that, you know, you're just declaring. They knew it as a birthright. So therefore, if we are unhappy and we don't have the happiness that we should have in this lifetime, it's also about us building an ecosystem of happiness. And you can't do that when you're always building ecosystems around supporting, endorsing, and combating and going back and forth with people who are filled with hate and despair and hopelessness. That is a hopeless fight and nothing gets built that helps to sustain the other thing in the meantime, which I think is a Jedi mind trick of hate. It will make you focus on it and convince you that there's some panacea for it when in the words of the legendary R&B group 3LW, haters, they're going to hate. That's just what they're going to do. So we have to be very careful about how much time and attention we invest in attending to trying to resolve that all the time versus building something that can withstand it and endure beyond it.
Paul - 00:38:19:
Okay, wow. That is super exciting and energizing. Thank you for all that you do. And thank you for surviving and being alive and being here to channel your stories and parables with this amazing book, Radical Reparations, as well as your political vision for racial equity omnibus legislation. May it come to pass. As fast as possible, and to create this pathway of love, of manifesting the vision of reparative justice and equity and truth, so that we can build trusting, loving relationships, and we can unleash our love, and we can build community together, and we can build resilience and support each other, which is what all of us really want and need. So what you're talking about is a deep transformative healing opportunity for everyone. In our country, and I hope that everyone will mobilize on June 15th. And create ways of celebrating love and neighborliness. Beloved community, as Martin Luther King said. Because now's the time to really reach out and, you know, make something happen. I think that's what you're. Marcus is inviting us into that, is how I felt. Thank you for that. Did I get that right?
Marcus - 00:39:51:
Yes, you're totally right. We've all been chosen to be alive at this time. It could be a curse if we choose it to be, or maybe it is the best gift ever.
Paul - 00:40:01:
With that, I'm going to thank you for everything you do and best of luck. And you know you have my unconditional support and love for all that you're doing. I'm sending you all that all the time. I look forward to connecting with you again really soon.
Marcus - 00:40:17:
Yes. Thank you. God bless you. Peace.
Paul - 00:40:26:
Thank you so much for listening to that amazing discussion with Professor Marcus Anthony Hunter. He is one of the leading revolutionary optimists that I've ever met. This man is producing creative books like Radical Reparations that is really working on me and enlightening me and actually helping me live into revolutionary optimism. So that's how good it is. And he is also leading efforts on Capitol Hill and with the administration to push for racial equity legislation to be passed. And also he has created a march for equity, an Equity March on June 15th, 2024, for people around the country to rise up and join together and build community of love and bring forward repair and equity. So I just so, enthralled with all that Marcus is up to and honored to be in community with him. So I hope you'll read his book and you'll join the March for Equity as well. Peace. Have a great week.
Announcer - 00:41:41:
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