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In this episode of the Project Sisterhood Podcast, Chrissy Cole and Kathy Cannon talk about obedience, calling, and what it means to stop waiting and start moving when God speaks. If you’ve been sensing God stirring something in your heart but feel stuck, this conversation will encourage you to trust His voice and step forward in faith.
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- (00:00) - Cold Open: Stop Waiting
- (00:22) - Welcome Back to Project Sisterhood
- (01:40) - Why Women Wait When God Speaks
- (04:05) - Calling vs. Position
- (07:10) - If God Said Do It
- (10:00) - Obedience Before Confidence
- (13:20) - Fear, Doubt & Stepping Out
- (16:40) - Learning to Trust God’s Voice
- (19:10) - Ministry in Everyday Life
- (22:00) - Faithfulness in the Small Things
- (25:30) - Saying Yes Before You Feel Ready
- (29:10) - Final Encouragement & Prayer
Creators and Guests
Host
Chrissy Cole
Chrissy’s parents moved to the U.S. from the Philippines in the late 70′s. She saw her parents both come to know the Lord at a young age. She and her family poured their lives into the local church and were changed by God. Chrissy attended Evangel University in Springfield, MO and earned a B.A. in Communications with an emphasis in Public Relations.
What is Project Sisterhood?
Project Sisterhood is a podcast for women who want to grow in faith, find healthy community, and become who God created them to be.
Hosted by Chrissy Cole and the Project Church Sisterhood team, each episode brings honest conversations and biblical encouragement centered on identity, belonging, spiritual maturity, healing, relationships, and purpose.
With a mix of humor, vulnerability, and real-life wisdom, Project Sisterhood creates space for women in every age and stage to feel seen, strengthened, and connected—because you were never meant to do life alone.
00;00;00;00 - 00;00;06;12
Kathy Cannon
Number one, every bad emotional decision made in the Bible was made by a man.
00;00;06;14 - 00;00;34;28
Chrissy Cole
This is a Project sisterhood podcast for all things women, brother, youth, a purpose for ministry, motherhood for the marketplace. We have crucial and genuine conversations that transcend your season to impact your true identity as a woman. So light hearted. Possible. Honesty. Matters of the heart and soul to be encouraged. We hope you and all women of every age, at every stage, find life and freedom in Jesus and.
00;00;35;01 - 00;00;59;03
Chrissy Cole
All right, ladies, welcome back to another episode of the Project Sisterhood podcast, where all women, all women of every age, every stage, whether you're in marketplace ministry or motherhood or all three or 2 or 1, we get to be encouraged to walk out this life and the glory that God desired for him to receive. So we love you, ladies.
00;00;59;04 - 00;01;28;13
Chrissy Cole
Excited to jump into a, an episode about women in ministry. So whether you are in full time ministry, part time ministry, full time marketplace, or full time home, it it doesn't matter. We have ministry, and I know I have a shirt shout out to, made on purpose. My cousin Theresa. She has this line of clothing, and one of the sweatshirts says, my ministry is motherhood.
00;01;28;15 - 00;01;47;29
Chrissy Cole
And so we are all walking in ministry if you call yourself a follower of Christ. And so I have invited a friend who is just on the last episode talking about prayer. Her name is Cathy Cannon, and we did a lot of introduction in the last podcast. So if you want to, hear all of that, go back to the last episode.
00;01;48;04 - 00;01;59;27
Chrissy Cole
But I'm excited for you to be sharing on this topic because you have been a woman in ministry, in the marketplace, nonprofit, and and why that wouldn't be considered that what it.
00;01;59;29 - 00;02;01;12
Kathy Cannon
I mean, it's faith based.
00;02;01;14 - 00;02;18;07
Chrissy Cole
Based marketplace. Yeah. And then a mother of an obscene amount of children is what she likes to say. Yeah. And excessive amount and excessive. Not obscene. Yeah. Excessive. Same, same. So, Cathy, can you tell us a little bit more about yourself? And why do you think that I invited you to.
00;02;18;07 - 00;02;25;08
Kathy Cannon
This shirt once upon a time. Now, so let's clear up the children thing. I do have an excess of. I have five teenagers.
00;02;25;08 - 00;02;25;22
Chrissy Cole
Yes.
00;02;25;22 - 00;02;36;14
Kathy Cannon
So my kids are currently, as of January, we have 16, 17, 17.5, 18.5 and just turned 20.
00;02;36;16 - 00;02;37;10
Chrissy Cole
And a grandbaby.
00;02;37;10 - 00;02;39;12
Kathy Cannon
And a grandbaby. Yes. Who's 18 months?
00;02;39;16 - 00;02;39;28
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;02;40;01 - 00;03;02;10
Kathy Cannon
So, we are parents through the FAS adopt system here in California. And, we always wanted to have a family thought for kids was great. Thought for kids was a really big family. Five was crazy. I still firmly believe that line exists. We just crossed it to the crazy size. And so yeah. So now we're living life in upper high school years.
00;03;02;10 - 00;03;06;29
Kathy Cannon
We just have a graduation every year and are moving through it. So that's our season of life.
00;03;07;02 - 00;03;19;04
Chrissy Cole
There you go. Yeah. And so motherhood there's. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for clearing that up. But give us a little bit of history. What you've been doing in, ministry. Full time ministry.
00;03;19;04 - 00;03;37;27
Kathy Cannon
Sure. So my entire life I've been in vocational ministry, and most people think that means, like, your adult life. That is not the case. I actually mean my whole life because I am a fourth generation pastor. And, this is the family business. We're like the Levites in the Old Testament. Somebody each know.
00;03;37;29 - 00;03;39;21
Chrissy Cole
What I don't know? I don't know, maybe it.
00;03;39;21 - 00;03;48;26
Kathy Cannon
Is very much like that. God set it up like a family business. But what that really means is I don't know how to do church any other way.
00;03;48;29 - 00;03;49;09
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;03;49;15 - 00;04;21;20
Kathy Cannon
Then like all in with church. And so growing up my dad was a pastor, my grandfather was a pastor, my great grandfather was a pastor. And so when we went on vacation, we still went to church because we were going to family members, church or that kind of thing. And, I remember when I was in high school, we, had a great, great Sunday school teacher, but had not been a believer for very long, but they were willing to serve and give, and they actually were, on the one of the football coaches at my high school.
00;04;21;22 - 00;04;33;00
Kathy Cannon
But he didn't know the Lord for that long. So he's teaching Sunday school class. And every once I'd be like every once in a while, he would say, is that what this means, Cathy? Is that what they're talking about here? I'm like, yeah, if you go to the book of the because I was that nerd.
00;04;33;00 - 00;04;33;23
Chrissy Cole
Yes.
00;04;33;26 - 00;04;42;01
Kathy Cannon
I was that Bible nerd. Yeah. My whole life. And when it was a Sunday night service or Wednesday service, because we used to have those.
00;04;42;01 - 00;04;45;25
Chrissy Cole
Yes. Every week. Yes. Right.
00;04;45;27 - 00;05;10;29
Kathy Cannon
And somebody my dad would just have this way of catching my eye because there was a mom who he could tell needed time at the altar. He was such a pastor. And so he would just, during the prayer time, just be like. And he was pointing for me to go get the kid. And so even as a 12, 13 year old, you know, I would take the younger kids and go to another room set.
00;05;10;29 - 00;05;33;27
Kathy Cannon
The parents could have time. Yeah. You know, spending time at the altar and and prayer time and those types of things. And, I remember writing children's curriculum when I was in high school and running it for younger kids and those types of things. So. Well, when I was 11 years old, I was at a kids camp, and one of the evenings the pastor was talking about a called a ministry.
00;05;33;27 - 00;05;51;11
Kathy Cannon
And I think we don't talk about that enough. Right. Anymore and said, if you feel like God's, you know, calling you even if you don't have to wait until you're an adult to be in ministry, right, to talk about Jesus. We actually just talked about this in preschool here at Project Kids the other week about, do you do you?
00;05;51;11 - 00;06;01;23
Kathy Cannon
Jesus was 12 years old and he was about his father's business in the temple. Yeah. Talking about God like we don't have to grow up to. And so we were telling the preschoolers, do you have to be a grown up to talk about God? No.
00;06;01;24 - 00;06;02;12
Chrissy Cole
Yes.
00;06;02;12 - 00;06;18;22
Kathy Cannon
And so at 11 years old, I was at a camp and I knew that God was calling me into ministry. And in my brain that looked like what I had seen, because that's what it is for all of us, right? We when we recognize something, it's because we've seen it before, right? I had seen generations of people serve in pastoral roles.
00;06;18;27 - 00;06;42;03
Kathy Cannon
So in my brain that's what that meant. And that's how I would serve in the local church. And had a conversation with God in my teens about whether I really wanted to do pastoral ministry and be in the local church. Did not have a lot of examples of women in senior leadership. I knew one missionary, she's actually still on the field.
00;06;42;10 - 00;06;42;28
Chrissy Cole
Well.
00;06;43;00 - 00;07;00;13
Kathy Cannon
She was single at the time. Eventually got married to a great man. Lost him, and I just. I actually just saw on Facebook she got remarried, and he went back on the field missions. And I remember she would come visit our church and talk about what she was doing. And so I had that in my mind.
00;07;00;16 - 00;07;20;13
Kathy Cannon
My grandfather had been mentored by these two sisters in ministry and church planting, and I always knew that story. So I had these these foundational understandings that I could do these things. And, then God reconfirmed that call when I was about 16 years old and said that now this is, you know, what I want you doing.
00;07;20;13 - 00;07;21;03
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;07;21;05 - 00;07;22;26
Kathy Cannon
So went off to school for it.
00;07;22;28 - 00;07;26;20
Chrissy Cole
We went to the same school. We did hear the last podcast episode. Yeah.
00;07;26;25 - 00;07;52;26
Kathy Cannon
And, studied, Bible studies and ministry and, got married and actually went pretty much right into vocational ministry. So I've been a kids pastor as a kids pastor for years. And then what brought us to California, as I was an executive pastor, here in Sacramento for eight, nine years. And then, at that point, God moved us out, just kept moving further west, moved to the Bay area, and I was a lead pastor, planted a church there in San Bruno.
00;07;52;26 - 00;08;02;23
Kathy Cannon
I was lead pastor for eight and a half years. And then started working with a program called Thriving in Ministry, which is what I am the executive director of now, and we pastor pastors.
00;08;02;29 - 00;08;03;10
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;08;03;10 - 00;08;10;21
Kathy Cannon
So we work on soul care and family and relationship dynamics and all of those things for people serving in vocational ministry.
00;08;10;27 - 00;08;27;27
Chrissy Cole
That's so good. I love how much you have done in ministry. Just a wealth of knowledge and especially navigating being a woman in ministry. So talk to me about maybe any challenges that you have had as a woman in ministry.
00;08;27;27 - 00;08;55;12
Kathy Cannon
Yeah, it's really interesting. Most of the challenges that women in ministry face, are more professionally based than any other way. Yes. Because if if you're a woman and you're talking about Jesus and you're ministering to people who aren't saved, they don't know that there's this disagreement in the church world about whether women can serve in ministry, period, or in women in senior leadership, right.
00;08;55;12 - 00;09;12;08
Kathy Cannon
Which is the role that I often found myself in. And you find yourself in. And, and so that wasn't the issue. It wasn't when I was pastoring a church, you know, my husband is not a pastor. That's a different dynamic than what you and Caleb have. He is a techie. And so, my mic never had feedback.
00;09;12;08 - 00;09;29;14
Kathy Cannon
The sounds just like the presenter was always on point, you know, those types of things. But he really does not want to speak, from a microphone unless he really needs to, that he's more of a behind the scenes guy. And so when people are like, well, do you have problems with people in your church, you being the female senior pastor?
00;09;29;14 - 00;09;41;24
Kathy Cannon
I'm like, no, they don't show up if that's an issue. Yeah. Right. And then just out working with other pastors, the problem came more with peers than anything else.
00;09;41;24 - 00;09;42;12
Chrissy Cole
Interesting.
00;09;42;12 - 00;10;01;29
Kathy Cannon
And I think that actually does make it harder. Yeah. At times for women, because when you're in the church world and you feel, empowered and called by God, and you've had wonderful leaders who empower you and recognize that calling on your life and you're really you're really just trying to be faithful.
00;10;01;29 - 00;10;03;01
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;10;03;03 - 00;10;12;01
Kathy Cannon
When you have people who just disagree with something, you believe. So foundationally, it's hard to not take that personally.
00;10;12;01 - 00;10;12;29
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;10;13;02 - 00;10;23;01
Kathy Cannon
And that's that's often what women are told. Like, we we get too emotional. And, you need to not take it so personally. And I think that's just a crock.
00;10;23;04 - 00;10;23;22
Chrissy Cole
Yeah, I just.
00;10;23;22 - 00;10;38;12
Kathy Cannon
Think it's ridiculous. Number one, every bad emotional decision made in the Bible was made by a man. Okay. Like there are no stories in the entire Bible of women making decisions out of their emotions and it going poorly.
00;10;38;12 - 00;10;38;25
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;10;38;25 - 00;10;43;18
Kathy Cannon
Like it just doesn't happen. It's the men who were making really bad decisions based off of their emotions.
00;10;43;18 - 00;10;44;16
Chrissy Cole
Yes. Right.
00;10;44;19 - 00;11;11;27
Kathy Cannon
And so it's but again when somebody says don't take it personal, if you're talking about what God has said to me, what I feel like I've heard since the time I was 11 years old, what I've done and felt faithful in doing for all of those years. And how I feel blessed by God and seen by God when I am leading at my best.
00;11;12;00 - 00;11;15;17
Kathy Cannon
For a peer to say, yeah, that's fine for you. I just don't agree.
00;11;15;22 - 00;11;17;20
Chrissy Cole
Right? It hurt.
00;11;17;26 - 00;11;19;07
Kathy Cannon
Yeah, it just does.
00;11;19;08 - 00;11;20;03
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;11;20;05 - 00;11;24;12
Kathy Cannon
And that's when you just decide why you're doing it again. Right? You know?
00;11;24;15 - 00;11;24;26
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;11;24;26 - 00;11;52;17
Kathy Cannon
Because some other 11 year old girl needs to know that if she feels like God saying this, here's different models of women who are leading in ministry. Yeah, here's different ways of doing this thing and different roles. I didn't think I would ever be a lead pastor because I had never seen a female lead pastor. Right. So kind of now my goal is whenever I know any women in ministry, whether they're 11 or 16 or interning or whatever, I would say, have you ever thought about being a lead pastor?
00;11;52;17 - 00;12;05;27
Kathy Cannon
And they're like, oh, no, no, I just want to work with youth because everybody wants to work with youth. When you're 16. Yes. Like you think you're going to be the next like great youth evangelist or all of these things. So I just like calling it out in people and just saying, well, have you thought about this? Yeah.
00;12;05;28 - 00;12;09;07
Kathy Cannon
You know, because again, we want people to recognize the call of God on our lives, right?
00;12;09;07 - 00;12;09;19
Chrissy Cole
Right.
00;12;09;21 - 00;12;18;10
Kathy Cannon
And when he's calling us in motherhood, when he calls us into marriage, when he calls us into singlehood, when he calls us into the marketplace, we need working models.
00;12;18;12 - 00;12;19;01
Chrissy Cole
Yes. Of what.
00;12;19;01 - 00;12;19;12
Kathy Cannon
That looks.
00;12;19;12 - 00;12;46;18
Chrissy Cole
Like, do I? I love that because I love that we I do want to take ministry out of the profession level, so to say, or even the executive leadership level, because that's where we find ourselves. But I would say that the majority of our listeners are probably navigating what is my call to ministry as a woman right now, whether I'm at home, whether I'm single, whether I'm married, whether, or whatever church I find myself in and whatever their theology is on it.
00;12;46;18 - 00;13;03;25
Chrissy Cole
Right. What I think the key is that we would do what you just said, like we're all navigating it and needing to discern it either whatever space or place that you're in right now. We need to know and discern the voice of God. Yeah. And what does it sound like when he calls us to ministry?
00;13;03;25 - 00;13;20;04
Kathy Cannon
Right. And, so years ago, I was sitting in a, women's gathering, and Christina's was, I'm not really a women's gathering gal most of my life.
00;13;20;10 - 00;13;22;03
Chrissy Cole
Yes. Okay. I'm not.
00;13;22;03 - 00;13;49;03
Kathy Cannon
It's not what I'm known for. I've never been on, like, the women's preaching circuit kind of thing. And so, I was in one of the gathering and they had gathered all of the female ministers. And I think this matters for all of us, no matter what type of ministry we're in. And they were, there was an older woman just giving the classic speech that women are given in life about seasons.
00;13;49;06 - 00;14;09;09
Kathy Cannon
And I was in my 20s. I was a young mom. I don't remember if we had three kids or five kids because we went from zero to 3 to 5 because of adoption. So I had a lot of small children and was still working full time. In the ministry my husband had actually was the primary at home caregiver for our kids in that season.
00;14;09;11 - 00;14;22;02
Kathy Cannon
And I just sat there and, all I kept hearing, no matter what she was saying, all I kept hearing was, wait your turn, mama. And your face.
00;14;22;02 - 00;14;25;05
Chrissy Cole
What you just did. There.
00;14;25;08 - 00;14;26;22
Kathy Cannon
That's basically what? My face. Yeah.
00;14;26;23 - 00;14;27;09
Chrissy Cole
Because I don't.
00;14;27;09 - 00;14;28;08
Kathy Cannon
Filter my face very.
00;14;28;08 - 00;14;32;10
Chrissy Cole
Well. Yeah. So that's why that is. Yeah, that is what it looked like.
00;14;32;10 - 00;14;40;22
Kathy Cannon
I'm sure. And I just remember taking out my phone and texting all of the men on our church staff, which was everyone else but me.
00;14;40;22 - 00;14;41;03
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;14;41;04 - 00;14;48;04
Kathy Cannon
And saying at some point have they pulled all the boys aside and told you guys to wait your turn.
00;14;48;06 - 00;14;48;28
Chrissy Cole
Right.
00;14;49;01 - 00;15;06;20
Kathy Cannon
That you need to let other generations go and do and lead and do these things and minister in these ways, and at some point it will be your turn. Like, why would anyone ever say that to anyone? Right? Like that was their response. Yeah. That is a ridiculous thing to say to someone.
00;15;06;20 - 00;15;07;26
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;15;07;28 - 00;15;17;17
Kathy Cannon
And we had the follow up conversation when we were all back together for a meal later, I think. So why did you ask that? I said, because that's what I was being told.
00;15;17;18 - 00;15;18;10
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;15;18;13 - 00;15;37;29
Kathy Cannon
And every other woman in the room was being told that, you know, God has seasons for your life and all these things. And so I I'll be honest for it. Over a decade probably, too. I hated the word seasons when it came to ministry. Right. Like, don't limit me right now I spiritual I just said, don't limit God.
00;15;37;29 - 00;15;42;23
Chrissy Cole
Yes. Okay. That's a great that's a great tool, right? Yes.
00;15;42;23 - 00;15;54;25
Kathy Cannon
Don't limit what God wants to do in my life. Yeah. Now I over functioned for a very, very long time. Okay okay. And it wasn't healthy. And so I was a high producing person. I was the nerd. I was the achiever.
00;15;54;25 - 00;15;55;05
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;15;55;05 - 00;15;59;13
Kathy Cannon
I don't know if that's familiar to you whatsoever. Chris.
00;15;59;15 - 00;16;25;12
Kathy Cannon
But I was overproducing and I was over achieving. And even though I was able to do it really well at the time, eventually that caught up with me. And I learned that some things are really seasonal. Right. And you need to understand what is healthy and what is balance and those types of things. And learning that it wasn't what I was being told in those meetings, though, was one of the most powerful things.
00;16;25;18 - 00;16;41;05
Kathy Cannon
When I had someone look at me, a seasoned minister, and said, no, don't wait your turn. If God tells you to do something now, you need to be obedient. Yeah, you need to do that thing now and do it to the best of your God given ability.
00;16;41;05 - 00;16;42;21
Chrissy Cole
Yes.
00;16;42;23 - 00;16;51;03
Kathy Cannon
Right, right. And so I think for all of us, because we're all called to the Great Commission, right? Like if you are a believer, you're called to ministry.
00;16;51;06 - 00;16;51;29
Chrissy Cole
Yes.
00;16;52;01 - 00;17;12;15
Kathy Cannon
Right. Go make disciples of every nation, baptizing them in the name of the Father and Son. Holy spirit, teach them to your obey your or excuse me. Teach them to obey your words, and I'll be with you till the end of the age. Yeah, like that is a complete picture of a lifetime of ministry that endures through every season.
00;17;12;17 - 00;17;14;02
Kathy Cannon
We. I felt very SNL right there.
00;17;14;02 - 00;17;18;15
Chrissy Cole
We got that like that season. Yeah. That's funny.
00;17;18;18 - 00;17;29;14
Kathy Cannon
And it's it's true for every single one of us. Like what? Yes. What is God calling you to do right now? You don't have to do it the way that you see someone else doing it.
00;17;29;14 - 00;17;30;02
Chrissy Cole
Yeah, you.
00;17;30;02 - 00;17;53;15
Kathy Cannon
Don't have to do it the way you're told in a book somewhere. Yeah, those are all wonderful working models. That we get ideas from. But and maybe it's just because I'm, I'm more of a trailblazer builder rather than a maintainer. Yeah. I really don't want to maintain any system that I ever develop ever. Just let me delegate that thing once I'll create it.
00;17;53;15 - 00;17;54;05
Chrissy Cole
But yeah.
00;17;54;06 - 00;17;55;15
Kathy Cannon
Please don't make me maintain it.
00;17;55;15 - 00;17;55;29
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;17;56;02 - 00;18;06;13
Kathy Cannon
And so part of it is just go create something new. Well, maybe you are called to say, hey, I want to take this mantle that someone else has carried and I'm going to carry it well and. Right. Maybe you're a maintainer, maybe you're older.
00;18;06;14 - 00;18;06;24
Chrissy Cole
Yeah, yeah.
00;18;06;25 - 00;18;21;04
Kathy Cannon
And that and that beautiful way that I have some dear, dear friends that are called to. Yeah. And are gifted for. But understanding that, just. Yeah, I really just I wish we would stop telling people to wait their turn.
00;18;21;04 - 00;18;21;14
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;18;21;14 - 00;18;24;17
Kathy Cannon
Or to wait for a particular season of ministry.
00;18;24;18 - 00;18;47;11
Chrissy Cole
What I would say, instead of waiting your turn is more wait on God to tell you what to do and respond in obedience, right? Any call of ministry that God gives requires you to be obedient, right? And it's I don't think that we need a question anymore as women, especially not in our church, with our theology, with our theology on women.
00;18;47;14 - 00;19;09;18
Chrissy Cole
Like you don't have to question if you're called to ministry. We're all called to the Great Commission. And we believe that all women have a place here. And what I appreciate about my husband, and it was the way he was taught and modeled for and how it was modeled for him is that I'm not just going to be empowering of my wife, who is called a pastor.
00;19;09;20 - 00;19;31;24
Chrissy Cole
I'm going to be empowering all women, whether they're single, married, divorced. There is a place for you in the local church and body to minister, right, Minister. And there's so many opportunities. I mean, I could talk about it, but maybe we should say that for like a serve day. But, ladies, you could be, community group leader. You can lead a team here.
00;19;31;26 - 00;19;54;17
Chrissy Cole
You can, you could be out in your workplace starting a Bible study or starting a prayer group. We can all be doing something in ministry and being faithful and obedient to the, the, the mission that God has given us, the Great Commission. And so I think that let's stop saying, wait your turn. What has got asking you to do right now?
00;19;54;20 - 00;20;00;20
Chrissy Cole
And whether it's big or small, it rather is public. Private, whatever you like. Just be obedient, right.
00;20;00;20 - 00;20;01;21
Kathy Cannon
And there will be pushback.
00;20;01;25 - 00;20;02;03
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;20;02;07 - 00;20;10;21
Kathy Cannon
Because if you're leading the way in anything, you're going to face pushback. It doesn't matter what field you're in. It doesn't matter if you're trying to lead your child well, you're.
00;20;10;21 - 00;20;14;15
Chrissy Cole
Going to get pushback, which is true too. Exactly, exactly.
00;20;14;15 - 00;20;31;11
Kathy Cannon
But you better believe a toddler is going to push back on you. That's how we understand we're all born into a sinful nature. We have toddlers, right? And we understand, like I did not teach you that. Yeah, right. You're going to get that absolutely anywhere your serve. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't be ministering in that way.
00;20;31;13 - 00;20;33;12
Kathy Cannon
Just because someone pushes back on you at some point.
00;20;33;12 - 00;20;33;26
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;20;33;28 - 00;20;36;18
Kathy Cannon
It just means they don't maybe understand your calling.
00;20;36;18 - 00;20;37;01
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;20;37;03 - 00;20;47;07
Kathy Cannon
They don't maybe understand your personality, your leadership style. Your serving style which I think is an under talked about issue is how we need to learn how to serve, not just how to lead.
00;20;47;07 - 00;20;48;09
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;20;48;11 - 00;20;53;02
Kathy Cannon
And, and all of those different things because of their own experience.
00;20;53;02 - 00;20;53;11
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;20;53;15 - 00;21;22;16
Kathy Cannon
You know, as a woman, we deal with different types of male leaders, based on our experience. Right. Whether it's a good, better, ugly experience in life, yes. We are going to deal with men who are in leadership or ministry roles around us based on that. I think it matters that we recognize men also have a lot of experiences with women in their lives.
00;21;22;19 - 00;21;40;28
Kathy Cannon
And they might view or relate to or support or struggle with women in different ministry roles around their life, whether it's someone just serving, you know, in what seems like a small way, but is a very big way, or if it's some huge role.
00;21;40;29 - 00;21;41;19
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;21;41;22 - 00;22;01;14
Kathy Cannon
And just allowing the grace for people to be like, you are where you are. And this is a trust issue, and it's not whether I trust you with my calling, it's whether I trust God with my calling. And do I trust God with how he's called me to minister and who he's created me to be? No, it's my role and my responsibility to be healthy.
00;22;01;16 - 00;22;14;29
Kathy Cannon
It's my role and my responsibility to be in the word, to be in prayer, to be in fellowship, to be planted in the local church, to be accountable. You know, all of those things. In order to minister. Well, I have to be all of those things. That's on me.
00;22;15;02 - 00;22;17;00
Chrissy Cole
Yep. Right. Very good.
00;22;17;03 - 00;22;33;20
Kathy Cannon
And I have to keep doing those things. But when it comes, when it comes to any of the pushback or any of that stuff, it could just be my own calendar pushing back. It could be my own exhaustion pushing back. And I need to read those and look at those and say it's just kind of like emotions.
00;22;33;20 - 00;22;36;02
Kathy Cannon
They inform me they don't make the decision.
00;22;36;02 - 00;22;37;18
Chrissy Cole
Right? Yeah.
00;22;37;20 - 00;22;50;04
Kathy Cannon
And so then say, okay, so you know what? Even Jesus had places where he was not received well, in ministry, right, right. And there's Scripture versus a prophet has no honor in his own home.
00;22;50;04 - 00;22;51;04
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;22;51;07 - 00;23;08;14
Kathy Cannon
And for every single one of us, there will be places in some point in our life. I think, where we try to do something. Where we try to minister well and it isn't received. And that doesn't mean we're not called the ministry said. Right. Yeah. That doesn't mean we shouldn't go try it somewhere else.
00;23;08;14 - 00;23;08;26
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;23;08;26 - 00;23;22;06
Kathy Cannon
Or in a different setting or in a different seat on the bus or a different bus completely. You know, all of those things because it's a lifetime. It is a lifetime to lead out the ministry.
00;23;22;07 - 00;23;22;29
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;23;23;01 - 00;23;24;06
Kathy Cannon
That we're all called to.
00;23;24;09 - 00;23;50;23
Chrissy Cole
Yeah. If there's something that I would want to encourage Project Sisterhood on, it would be that you have a place in ministry there safety to lead here with men. Can we also never dishonor man in our church because of how men outside of our church or in the, you know, corporate world or whatever bad boss you had? Let's not let those experience inform how we serve God in his church, right?
00;23;50;24 - 00;24;11;27
Chrissy Cole
You know, and so, I kind of want to take a little bit of a turn, but, I love that you. I loved everything that you just shared. There was a moment where you talked about, experiences that we have with men. Yeah. And I know that that's tainted a lot of women from even saying yes to serving.
00;24;11;27 - 00;24;35;19
Chrissy Cole
Yeah, because of their fear of the past. And, you know, past wounds, past leaders they've had in their lives caused them to lead much differently. And, you know, they were trying everything at anything to not be male. And, you know, but there are some benefits to some things that the way a man is made up. Anyways, I'm, I'm going a whole nother route.
00;24;35;25 - 00;24;46;13
Chrissy Cole
But I do think it's important for women to lead as women, not as, you know, with a lot of male energy.
00;24;46;15 - 00;24;59;20
Kathy Cannon
Yeah. Okay. I I'll be honest, the whole male female energy thing was me at times. Okay. Probably because I've been accused of, like, trying to be, like one of the guys, and,
00;24;59;26 - 00;25;01;01
Chrissy Cole
Oh, I get that professionally.
00;25;01;01 - 00;25;17;26
Kathy Cannon
I'm like, yeah, I didn't have a choice. Like, if I didn't talk sports, I wouldn't be able to even talk. These guys don't know how to talk to me. Yeah, so I had to learn how to speak sport. Yeah. You know, and those kind of things, and and, and the I, the worst word in the world.
00;25;17;26 - 00;25;18;25
Kathy Cannon
It's worse than seasons.
00;25;18;25 - 00;25;20;06
Chrissy Cole
Christy. Okay.
00;25;20;09 - 00;25;21;10
Kathy Cannon
Intimidating.
00;25;21;17 - 00;25;23;03
Chrissy Cole
Oh, yeah.
00;25;23;05 - 00;25;29;24
Kathy Cannon
You're intimidating. Mike. By doing what? What God has called me to do.
00;25;29;26 - 00;25;30;15
Chrissy Cole
Yeah, like.
00;25;30;15 - 00;25;39;14
Kathy Cannon
I think I'm just doing my job. And because I have a strong personality and by strong I mean loud.
00;25;39;17 - 00;25;40;05
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;25;40;07 - 00;25;52;02
Kathy Cannon
Yeah. Right. I have a loud voice. At times I think people have thought I was trying to come across like Amanda's like no I'm just loud.
00;25;52;05 - 00;25;52;14
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;25;52;15 - 00;26;01;27
Kathy Cannon
I just really am that loud or that is my personality. I think the difference though is that when you're leading authentically.
00;26;01;27 - 00;26;02;29
Chrissy Cole
Yourself, there you go.
00;26;03;03 - 00;26;05;02
Kathy Cannon
Versus trying to lead like any other leader.
00;26;05;02 - 00;26;05;27
Chrissy Cole
Yeah, yeah.
00;26;05;28 - 00;26;17;21
Kathy Cannon
You know, preachers, because I teach a lot of preaching classes. And when preachers are learning how to preach, they imitate their favorite communicators. Right. And it's weird because a bunch of people end up with a weird southern accent.
00;26;17;23 - 00;26;18;29
Chrissy Cole
And I said, God, I can't.
00;26;18;29 - 00;26;21;12
Kathy Cannon
Handle the word.
00;26;21;15 - 00;26;22;13
Chrissy Cole
Of God. Yeah.
00;26;22;15 - 00;26;42;28
Kathy Cannon
You know, like the States. Right. And so but that is how we all learn. How do your little kids follow you around in the house learning how to say things? They learn your accent. They learn the way you do things. You all of a sudden when you see this little kid going the same way and rolling your eyes the same way you did it, your husband or your friend or you know, those kind of things you learn through imitation, right?
00;26;42;28 - 00;27;02;20
Kathy Cannon
So I get that. But when we are really ministering from a place of health, it's from a place of authentic authenticity of who we are, and we get comfortable in our own skin, okay? We get comfortable in our own voice. I think I don't have to worry about what energy that is. If it's from humility and if it's rooted in the spirit.
00;27;02;21 - 00;27;17;25
Chrissy Cole
That's very good. I would say, though, that there is probably a generalization that I think is fair. Of a women oftentimes being really empathetic and is some maybe even, I.
00;27;17;25 - 00;27;18;26
Kathy Cannon
Think I just happened to.
00;27;18;28 - 00;27;19;07
Chrissy Cole
In our.
00;27;19;07 - 00;27;26;16
Kathy Cannon
Emotion. Yeah. I bottom out on mercy on any spiritual gifts test. I have to work really hard. Really. Oh mercy is a spiritual discipline in my life. So it's not spiritual.
00;27;26;16 - 00;27;43;10
Chrissy Cole
No. It's interesting. Speaking of male energy, female energy. I think typically people would see a man as having less grace, and then the woman having more grace in me and Caleb's working relationship. And as we lead our staff to stuff, has quickly learned that it's flip.
00;27;43;10 - 00;27;45;04
Kathy Cannon
Go to dad. Not mom, dad, not.
00;27;45;04 - 00;27;50;05
Chrissy Cole
Mom. And if you're looking for somebody to break it, I will cry with you on a lot of things because I.
00;27;50;05 - 00;27;51;05
Kathy Cannon
Am a believer.
00;27;51;08 - 00;28;11;09
Chrissy Cole
Yes. See? And those are the things that I think are very distinct to women. Yes, yes. Not to say that no men have. There's always. Yes, there's always the exception. Exceptions. Sarah. But I it's so funny. I'm like when it comes to when we should be in the office, like office hours. And he's just like, well, let everybody work from home today.
00;28;11;09 - 00;28;38;03
Chrissy Cole
I'm like, what? Oh, give people Presidents Day off. That is a day. We are not in the corporate world. We're not working for the government. You're in the office. You know, like that's really how I am more oh Lord, help me. And then, you know, if anyways, I won't out myself any more. But I do think it's interesting that there's those kinds of personality traits that are, that are more common in women where I'm like, don't abandon that.
00;28;38;04 - 00;29;05;02
Chrissy Cole
Don't abandon that emotion. Don't abandon those are put in you for a reason and use those God gave them to you so that you can lead with that. So I do think that's a probably better conversation of leading authentically, being authentic to who you are. Because some of us, even me, I think that there are some men who are like, why is this chick at the golf, outing for the pastor's masters?
00;29;05;02 - 00;29;21;22
Chrissy Cole
Is this one event that we had? And they probably. So I was just bringing this chick along to make her feel comfortable about being a co-lead pastor. But actually, I've played golf longer than Caleb, you know? So I'm going to be at these events, and I played sports my whole life. I'm not trying to be a guy, you know?
00;29;21;24 - 00;29;35;25
Chrissy Cole
So there was always that interesting. Yeah. And it came down to here's what I think. It comes down to women. If you're going to answer the call of ministry by God on your life, then you have to be comfortable in your identity.
00;29;35;29 - 00;29;37;00
Kathy Cannon
Yeah.
00;29;37;03 - 00;29;49;10
Chrissy Cole
That's what it comes down to. Who did God make you to be? Lead with all the feminine traits and some masculine energy, so to say, and lead authentically, right? You know.
00;29;49;12 - 00;30;08;01
Kathy Cannon
I remember once we were at an event and Ben was actually there, and often I travel and it's just me. And so I have peers and friends in ministry that I've known for decades, and they've never met my husband. They're like, we know he exists. But, you know, we have five kids. And so one of us, he would travel for work and I would stay home with the family.
00;30;08;05 - 00;30;27;11
Kathy Cannon
And if I traveled for work, he would stay home with, like, we both parent our family. And, sometimes they would meet him later and then come back to me and be like, that's not what I expected. But in like, I don't I don't know what I'm like, did you think because my personality was so big that he.
00;30;27;12 - 00;30;30;00
Kathy Cannon
I must have been, like, squishing somebody else?
00;30;30;00 - 00;30;30;23
Chrissy Cole
Yeah, yeah.
00;30;30;23 - 00;30;45;28
Kathy Cannon
And so whether it's your spouse or whether it's your friend that you're serving in ministry with, or whether it's a stranger that you're just meeting at a sisterhood gathering, or those things like ministry is not some pie that if I slice off some of it for myself, someone gets.
00;30;45;28 - 00;30;47;15
Chrissy Cole
Less, come on.
00;30;47;18 - 00;30;53;16
Kathy Cannon
Right. And so no one has to be less than who they are, in order to minister.
00;30;53;16 - 00;30;54;12
Chrissy Cole
Well, that's very.
00;30;54;12 - 00;30;59;20
Kathy Cannon
Good, right? If they are healthy and who God has made them to be, we have. That's the grounding.
00;30;59;20 - 00;30;59;27
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;30;59;28 - 00;31;17;14
Kathy Cannon
Right. That's those are the ground rules. Be healthy. Who being who God has made you to be. But just because I was born to do something doesn't mean I was born knowing how to do it. So I've had it have a learning process. I've had to understand how I make a certain first impression. Sometimes when I walk into a room and I have to work my way.
00;31;17;14 - 00;31;18;22
Chrissy Cole
Backwards from what.
00;31;18;25 - 00;31;39;26
Kathy Cannon
You know, or how I can come across in a meeting to people who aren't used to a loud female leader voice, or people who just aren't used to someone who's going to, like, throw up her hair in the middle of the meeting. And, you know, because that means I'm getting real serious into the details, you know, that kind of thing, because it's a very girly thing to do.
00;31;39;26 - 00;31;40;15
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;31;40;17 - 00;32;01;17
Kathy Cannon
And they're not used to that energy in that space, but allowing myself to just show up is who I am. Yeah. Yes. I had people who open doors for me in ministry. Yes, I had people who brought me to those tables. But I get to stay because I'm me. I'm doing what God is telling me to do.
00;32;01;17 - 00;32;03;10
Chrissy Cole
Yeah. Very good. Right? Yeah.
00;32;03;11 - 00;32;05;25
Kathy Cannon
And the biggest blessing is now I get to build tables.
00;32;05;26 - 00;32;06;14
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;32;06;14 - 00;32;28;06
Kathy Cannon
And I get to bring other people to those tables. Yeah, I get to bring other women into those conversations and other people who often haven't been at ministry tables. Yeah. And sometimes that's at an executive level like we've talked about. But sometimes it's, you know, at, at every level in the table, it's looking around the table and being in ministry is saying, hey, you haven't spoken up yet.
00;32;28;08 - 00;32;29;13
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;32;29;15 - 00;32;40;12
Kathy Cannon
Right. And it's, showing that one of the ways that I use my voice as the loud woman that I am is to make sure other people are also heard.
00;32;40;12 - 00;32;41;01
Chrissy Cole
Very good.
00;32;41;01 - 00;32;42;20
Kathy Cannon
Yeah, right.
00;32;42;22 - 00;32;50;11
Chrissy Cole
Can we go back to what you said about the ground level is that you're healthy and you're healthy leader. And you certainly are doing.
00;32;50;11 - 00;32;50;22
Kathy Cannon
What God is.
00;32;50;22 - 00;32;51;25
Chrissy Cole
Calling. Do what God is calling you.
00;32;51;25 - 00;32;54;26
Kathy Cannon
Yeah. Because when I try to do things God is not called me to do. It's not good.
00;32;54;26 - 00;33;14;01
Chrissy Cole
And that's where seasons do come to place. What has God called you to in the season you're supposed to lead in, in any way, in some capacity, because we're leading in every capacity of our lives, and we have to lead ourselves well first. And so I think answering the call of ministry on our lives. Woman. Man. But this is a podcast for women.
00;33;14;01 - 00;33;40;19
Chrissy Cole
Yeah. So it's important that you would stay healthy, right. Healthy. I'll be healthy. And that means as a mom, stay healthy, stay united with your husband if he's in the home, stay submitted in the church, in your spiritual leadership. But then as it relates to women in other places, spaces, corporate world like stay healthy. They're healthy rhythms.
00;33;40;21 - 00;33;50;15
Chrissy Cole
Don't abandon the other important ministries in your life. Rob a church or to your family. I mean, I think health is almost. You're right. So the bottom line.
00;33;50;15 - 00;34;13;01
Kathy Cannon
Yeah, I mean, this is my life's work because we're thriving in ministry. I tell people, you know, I watched my father and my grandfather and my great grandfather all retire from full time vocational ministry in the local church. And, in my 30s, I was seeing too many of my friends, but watching them in ministry, knowing they were never going to hit that line, they were not going to hit retirement and still be in ministry.
00;34;13;04 - 00;34;15;27
Kathy Cannon
I'm not even sure they were going to hit retirement until of Jesus.
00;34;16;00 - 00;34;16;13
Chrissy Cole
Wow.
00;34;16;13 - 00;34;39;16
Kathy Cannon
And a few of the men, they were not going to be married to that original spouse either. You know, because if someone choices somewhere along the way and it was a lack of health, nothing drifts to healthy, right? Like nothing your marriage doesn't like. If you just leave it alone and just let it be. It doesn't drift towards healthier marriage, your relationship with your best friend.
00;34;39;16 - 00;35;02;01
Kathy Cannon
It doesn't drift towards healthy. It's intentional. Your relationship with the Lord doesn't drift to being better. You have to be at it. Yes, and your own personal health? Yes. You have to actually be at it. When we talk about ministry, especially for most of the world, it's not their job in a local church, right? It's their role in the body of Christ, right?
00;35;02;04 - 00;35;20;06
Kathy Cannon
Right. That's their ministry is their role in the body of Christ. And how we support one another in the body of Christ is our ministry, whether it's our children that we're talking about, our spouse or our sisterhood, or our full local church or the global body however it is, it's.
00;35;20;09 - 00;35;43;21
Kathy Cannon
It's often, the thing that gets added, okay. Just because people have to pay the bills, they're raising family at home, you know, if they if that's their season, you know, all of these things. And so ministry is that thing that I'm going to add on to the schedule. And when we're not looking holistically at ourself, suddenly ministry is sadly the ministry.
00;35;43;21 - 00;35;56;08
Kathy Cannon
Yes. Like what we've allowed to be called. That, is the thing that throws us off balance and, and that is soul crushing to me. That is because true, I watch it with pastors, but I watch it with church people.
00;35;56;08 - 00;35;58;14
Chrissy Cole
More like church people.
00;35;58;14 - 00;35;59;19
Kathy Cannon
Than pastors in the world.
00;35;59;22 - 00;36;00;13
Chrissy Cole
Right? Yeah.
00;36;00;15 - 00;36;18;09
Kathy Cannon
And so in our program, like we talk about the personal spiritual health of a pastor. And I was working with a psychologist on some of the evaluations we do with people who spend their life and their vocation doing ministry. And he said something about balance like, Robert, okay, just, you know, and I was doing it completely jokingly.
00;36;18;10 - 00;36;18;18
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;36;18;18 - 00;36;29;21
Kathy Cannon
Like, just so you know, we don't like that word in ministry. He's like, what do you mean? Like sitting it up in ministry? And I actually use the words, it's seasonal.
00;36;29;24 - 00;36;30;06
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;36;30;06 - 00;36;50;05
Kathy Cannon
Some times of the year it's crazier than others, you know. And it's, it's so we like to say that we want our life in our ministry to be centered on Jesus, but it's never going to be balanced. Right? Something's always going to be out of whack. And he just sat in silence for a few minutes, which is really uncomfortable to me.
00;36;50;05 - 00;37;06;24
Kathy Cannon
Yes, right. Listen to the last podcast and said, I don't think that's true. They said, us just don't like to be balanced.
00;37;06;26 - 00;37;32;17
Kathy Cannon
And I didn't like that and it ended up being a conversation we had to have over weeks of time because he was pushing back hard. And here I was setting up a program to help pastors be healthy and to evaluate their whether they were able to do things that are grounded and set and, sustainable. And I was saying that you couldn't find balance.
00;37;32;19 - 00;37;43;15
Kathy Cannon
And the more we talked, the more I realized that that was this ridiculous expectation balance. Yeah. No. Oh that we can't have balance.
00;37;43;15 - 00;37;47;14
Chrissy Cole
Yeah. Oh that's a ridiculous I got it right that.
00;37;47;14 - 00;38;06;13
Kathy Cannon
Well you know it depends if you were raised, you know, by grandparents who served in the local church, you know, and were they were there at every service and everything, like even that can teach you things that off balance that it's like, well, the church comes first and all of that things, well, God comes first, right? The body of Christ is how we serve.
00;38;06;13 - 00;38;34;23
Kathy Cannon
Part of how we serve God is how we serve the local church. But God comes first. So is my ministry actually throwing off my walk with the Lord and throwing that out of balance? Is my ministry time. Creating, a lack of grounding, I don't think I, I don't have the word right now, but like the, the the things, the undercurrents that happen, you know, before the earthquake, before the big kaboom, where it all falls apart, where it's a big crisis moment.
00;38;34;25 - 00;38;55;02
Kathy Cannon
You recognize when there's shifting sands. That's the spiritual way. That's the biblical way, right? When they're shifting sands under us. And I never want ministry. And what somebody is doing to minister to be the something that starts creating the shifting sands somewhere else.
00;38;55;05 - 00;38;56;15
Chrissy Cole
That's very good, because.
00;38;56;15 - 00;39;02;23
Kathy Cannon
Then it's it's it's not healthy. It's not balanced. It should be. What is the glue?
00;39;02;23 - 00;39;24;02
Chrissy Cole
Right? I'm not going to lie. I to have been under the thought pattern. That balance. What are you talking about? Balance. I take a Sabbath and and that kind of carries me through the unbalanced season. And so I do feel like we probably have to define balance a little bit.
00;39;24;05 - 00;39;33;10
Kathy Cannon
How big is the scale? How big are the scales that you're looking. Right. Because if we're talking about balance, the foundational idea is the two sides of the scale. Can you get them to a place where they hold.
00;39;33;14 - 00;39;33;28
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;39;33;28 - 00;39;45;07
Kathy Cannon
So that it's firm enough. Okay. And you yes you can have more on one side but only if you take off. What's going on. Right.
00;39;45;07 - 00;39;45;13
Chrissy Cole
Yes.
00;39;45;13 - 00;40;01;29
Kathy Cannon
Yes, yes. And so I think as women a society has taught us and at times we've learned this in the church. But I think society has taught us that you have to wear all of these hats. You have to spin all of these plates. You have to have all of these balls that you're juggling.
00;40;02;00 - 00;40;02;16
Chrissy Cole
Right.
00;40;02;18 - 00;40;09;05
Kathy Cannon
And some think that having an excessive number of children taught me was that, that just get the balls that bounce.
00;40;09;07 - 00;40;09;26
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;40;09;28 - 00;40;16;05
Kathy Cannon
Like so you can drop them every once in a while. Like you don't have to carry everything all the time.
00;40;16;05 - 00;40;16;19
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;40;16;23 - 00;40;18;20
Kathy Cannon
You don't have to carry everyone.
00;40;18;23 - 00;40;19;02
Chrissy Cole
Right?
00;40;19;03 - 00;40;20;12
Kathy Cannon
All the time.
00;40;20;14 - 00;40;36;04
Chrissy Cole
Balanced, predicated on perfection is what painful. Yes. That is the dangerous thing. Right. Balance. That is predicated on. You might have to drop some balls. Yeah, a little.
00;40;36;07 - 00;40;39;14
Kathy Cannon
Forget lowering the bar. Get rid of the bar. Like I don't want to play limbo.
00;40;39;20 - 00;40;41;19
Chrissy Cole
Yes. That's why why, why am I.
00;40;41;19 - 00;40;43;14
Kathy Cannon
Spending my life as a woman playing.
00;40;43;14 - 00;41;05;08
Chrissy Cole
Limbo? Okay, we can talk about balance again, because I think I still need to grapple with that. And we probably need to talk to the psychologist. But what I do love to share with those who are starting a ministry or some of our staff, I want to bring into the conversation grace and the rhythms of grace. Yeah, and carry rooms, right?
00;41;05;09 - 00;41;36;23
Chrissy Cole
Weems wrote a book called The Rhythms of Grace, and that helped me realize there will be seasons talking all the words we hate. There will be seasons where it is harder to balance. So we have to lean on God's grace and where he is pouring out more grace. You know what I'm saying? Because sometimes I think in our own efforts to balance our own lives, in our own flesh and in our own comfortability, we remove the grace that is strengthening us to do some things that might seem imbalanced.
00;41;36;23 - 00;41;59;21
Chrissy Cole
But if it's what God has called us to, then that's your balancing point. You know what I mean? It can't be on your own comfort level or what you think feels like balance. We cannot avoid or we can't. We can't forget about God's voice and what he's calling us to do and whatever he's calling us to do, he'll provide a grace for.
00;41;59;24 - 00;42;14;12
Chrissy Cole
And then you balance everything around that, right? So where is the grace on your life? What is what doors are or is he opening up for you to walk through? And maybe it might be hard because I'm afraid that people will use balance to avoid ministry, right? I don't know I.
00;42;14;16 - 00;42;46;20
Kathy Cannon
To mine, I think you, I think if you're a believer, you need ministry in the picture to be bold. Yes. Because like I said, it is the glue that holds those things together in your life is this idea that we are to serve when I mean talking about when in ministry, one of the verses that comes up is like, wives, submit to your husband, okay, the verse before that, it tells all believers that conversation was to all believers that we are to submit to one another and out of love, like you and I are called to submit to one another.
00;42;46;23 - 00;42;56;23
Kathy Cannon
Every single one of us. And so the reason that ministry needs to be involved, for us to have any sort of balance in our life is the fact that it's submission to one another.
00;42;56;23 - 00;42;57;18
Chrissy Cole
Yeah, I'm.
00;42;57;18 - 00;43;00;22
Kathy Cannon
Submitting my own will to the needs of my children. Yeah.
00;43;00;24 - 00;43;01;11
Chrissy Cole
At times.
00;43;01;11 - 00;43;12;09
Kathy Cannon
Yeah, right. I'm submitting my own desire to someone else's desire in the moment, because I don't always need to be the one that chose all of these different things we do. That is ministry.
00;43;12;09 - 00;43;12;23
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;43;12;23 - 00;43;14;24
Kathy Cannon
And when that's the holistic idea.
00;43;14;24 - 00;43;16;01
Chrissy Cole
Of yes, yes.
00;43;16;01 - 00;43;31;07
Kathy Cannon
Of seeing everything I do is a is an outflow of that grace of God on my life. I have a dear sister in ministry, friend who she, was pastoring a church in Paris for years, and she was single, for the entire time.
00;43;31;10 - 00;43;33;11
Chrissy Cole
I know she's sorry. Joy.
00;43;33;14 - 00;43;36;12
Chrissy Cole
It's okay. Sorry, I got personal. No. Kelly.
00;43;36;15 - 00;43;51;27
Kathy Cannon
Yeah. But we're also friends, Andrea. And, But Kelly, people would ask her about. Well, don't you want to get married? And she's like, that's just not a grace that I have in my life right now. And because I met my husband at 18. And we got married at like two days after I turned 21.
00;43;52;02 - 00;43;54;20
Chrissy Cole
Like we were babies.
00;43;54;22 - 00;43;58;23
Kathy Cannon
I've never felt the need for that. Grace. Because I got my man.
00;43;58;25 - 00;43;59;12
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;43;59;15 - 00;44;15;12
Kathy Cannon
I've always had my man. And so I've never thought of it that way. But I learned from her so much about. She's like, no, that's a grace that I don't things on my mom, on my life or not. We went for years without having children and I had to recognize that wasn't a grace on my life in that time.
00;44;15;15 - 00;44;38;04
Kathy Cannon
Now, there came a point where, again, it went to I needed grace for motherhood because excessive number of children, and all of those things. Now she has a very different life. Now she's in a different whole world of ministry, still doing amazing ministry. She was preaching the other week at the church that she attends. But she happens to have two little kids at home.
00;44;38;04 - 00;44;41;01
Kathy Cannon
And I'm like, wow, your kids are the same age as my granddaughter.
00;44;41;02 - 00;44;41;24
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;44;41;27 - 00;44;42;22
Kathy Cannon
We're in different.
00;44;42;22 - 00;44;44;29
Chrissy Cole
Seasons, but we're the same age, you know, and.
00;44;44;29 - 00;45;02;15
Kathy Cannon
All of these things. But she's saying, yeah, but I have grace for different things in my life right now. I don't have grace to be, you know, being as far away from families I used to be. She has a need to have family closer. Yeah. In this, in this portion of her ministry, in this portion of her life and those things.
00;45;02;15 - 00;45;18;10
Kathy Cannon
And I just think that that's beautiful. When we recognize because again, comparison game, I don't have to overplay.
00;45;18;15 - 00;45;18;20
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;45;18;20 - 00;45;25;09
Kathy Cannon
I don't have to to overdo it. I don't have to be unbalanced in this. I don't have to strive for perfection when done.
00;45;25;09 - 00;45;25;20
Chrissy Cole
Yeah.
00;45;25;21 - 00;45;28;04
Kathy Cannon
Is the appropriate answer.
00;45;28;07 - 00;46;12;03
Chrissy Cole
I think the greatest threat to our balance in military life and the greatest threat to our spiritual walk, honestly, is comparison. Yeah. Whether it's comparing to the sister or brother beside us, or if it's comparing ourselves to our best perceived selves. Yes. Which we are very familiar with. Yeah. And so I think that that's a great way to, you know, kind of and, and I want to challenge the ladies that every single one of you are called to ministry, whatever season you're in and you're called to be emotionally healthy, spiritually healthy, physically healthy, no matter what ministry you're doing right now, because that's going to help you make it to the end.
00;46;12;05 - 00;46;18;20
Chrissy Cole
Like emotional health, which will lead me also to my book recommendation, which I cannot think of his name right now.
00;46;18;20 - 00;46;19;18
Kathy Cannon
Pizza zero.
00;46;19;24 - 00;46;37;22
Chrissy Cole
Pizza K0. How are you going to recommend the book? I think I keep on thinking of his his, predecessor or not, his predecessor, his, ritual. Yeah. But I, I love, his book Emotionally Healthy Leader is a great one. If you're a leader, pretty much.
00;46;37;22 - 00;46;40;18
Kathy Cannon
It's just there's a blank, emotionally healthy something. He's written a book.
00;46;40;24 - 00;46;59;27
Chrissy Cole
And a healthy spirituality is great for every single one, a person, person, whether you're leading something or not. So, yeah, I what a great conversation. I think we could keep on diving into this. I'm going to grapple with the whole balance things still. And for anybody who is trying to make themselves of Proverbs perfect, Proverbs 31 woman.
00;46;59;27 - 00;47;01;04
Kathy Cannon
She had an entire.
00;47;01;04 - 00;47;03;20
Chrissy Cole
Stack. Yes. It's not possible. Oh my gosh.
00;47;03;23 - 00;47;11;25
Kathy Cannon
She's a figment of a mother in law's imagination. Number one, she didn't exist as she had an entire staff of people.
00;47;11;25 - 00;47;30;15
Chrissy Cole
Yes, yes. So anyways, ladies, with that, no pressure to that. Proverbs 31 woman to say emotionally healthy, stay spiritually healthy and know that you are called to ministry no matter what season you're in. So thanks again for joining me, Kathy. Glad to be having you here.
00;47;30;15 - 00;47;31;01
Kathy Cannon
Thanks, Chrissy.
00;47;31;05 - 00;47;53;06
Chrissy Cole
And hey, listen to the next podcast coming soon. I have a couple groups coming in that we're going to have a little bit more of, not one on one conversation, but panel conversation with some of my old friends. New friends. And the sisterhood is going to continue to be strengthened as we gather, share thoughts, pray together. And I just believe this year is going to be better than the year before.
00;47;53;06 - 00;47;54;26
Chrissy Cole
So we love you ladies!