Advocating for Every Child's Educational Journey

Show Notes

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Discover the profound impact of inclusive education with our guest, Lane Limpert, a devoted first-grade teacher and passionate advocate for integrating special education students into general classrooms. Lane shares her inspiring journey and offers valuable insights from her 19 years of teaching experience and her perspective as a parent of a child with special needs. Learn how fostering an inclusive environment not only builds confidence and social interaction among students but also enriches the learning experience for everyone involved.

Lane's expertise shines through as she discusses the importance of collaboration between general and special education teachers. By embracing open communication and co-teaching strategies, educators can create a supportive classroom environment that benefits all students. Lane stresses the necessary mindset shift required to view students with diverse needs as valued members of the classroom community. This episode promises to reshape your understanding of what it means to truly support every child's potential from day one.

Finally, join us as Lane reflects on her personal journey advocating for her autistic son, Lawson, as he transitions to a general education setting. Her story underscores the power of parental advocacy and the significant role it plays in shaping a child's educational path. Balancing special and general education supports can be challenging, but Lane's determination and flexibility reveal the rewards of finding the most beneficial environment for each child. Tune in for an engaging discussion on the transformative power of inclusion that will leave you inspired.

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What is Life in the IEP Tribe?

Join us as we dive into the world of special education with two educators who have walked the same path as many of you. In addition to teaching in self-contained and collaborative settings, our hosts bring a unique perspective to the challenges and triumphs of raising a special needs child. From classroom strategies to heartfelt family moments, they offer practical advice, empathy, and a community of support. Discover how their personal experiences can shed light on your journey and gain valuable insights into navigating the complexities of special education both in and out of the classroom. Welcome to the tribe!

Speaker 1: so, laura, I'm super
excited about this particular

recording.

Go ahead ask me why.

Why, jared?

I'm glad you asked so we get to
have as part of our podcast

somebody that we have had the
privilege of working with, um,

spending time with, sharing
churns with in the school

setting, and she has agreed to
come chit chat with us and I'm

super excited about that.

Would you like to introduce her
?

Speaker 2: Sure, so on the line
here.

Is that what we call it, still
on the line.

I mean it's on the computer,
but okay, so we have the first

grade teacher.

She's the first grade teacher
that we worked with for many

years and she was actually
implemental.

Is that the right word?

Implemental?

Speaker 1: Instrumental.

Speaker 2: Instrumental.

There we go, see Lane, you
don't have to worry about it, I

mess up all the time.

Speaker 1: See, look, you
already said her name before

introducing her.

Speaker 2: I know, I know
Instrumental and actually the

inclusion process of our kids.

She came to us and said, hey,
let me have that one.

Can I have that one for a
little while in my classroom?

And what about this one?

Can that one come too to well?

Can they come a little bit more
well?

How about a little bit more?

And so that just opened that
whole realm of inclusion.

So we have, for the past
several years, shared many

students, and so this is lane
limpert, and she has, she has

experience.

She is a general education
teacher that has much experience

working with special education
students of all abilities and

she also is a parent of a child
with special needs as well.

But we're double dipping here,
because she's got some great

insight on how to include our
kids in the general education

classroom and she also has
insight on how a parent can get

their child included in the
classroom with their typically

developing peers.

Speaker 1: So, Ms Lumber, how
are you doing?

Speaker 3: I'm fine, I'm so glad
you guys let me come on here

tonight.

Speaker 1: So, first things
first.

What is your deepest, darkest
secret?

Go, never mind.

Now you know that is a question
that if we ever get your

principal on here with us, I
will not ask her because I feel

like she would go ahead and tell
the world.

I'm going to leave it at that.

No names, no, nothing else,
just All right.

So we're going to have a chit
chat about inclusion.

Now Laura and I can get on here
and we can talk all day long

about kids need needed to be
included with their peers.

All of that we can do it to our
blue in the face, but sometimes

when somebody hears it from
somebody else, it clicks, and so

we're going to have a quick
discussion about that, about

inclusion, and I got to tell you
so your name has kind of become

a descriptor for us Like all
right, so who on the

kindergarten team will be our
limpert?

Who on the third grade team is
going to be our limpert?

So you are like the lens that
we view everybody through.

But no pressure, okay.

So if you don't mind, can you
kind of give us a little bit of

an idea of what it was that?

Because, like laura said, I
mean you.

You wanted to spend time with
our students.

It wasn't necessarily like we
went after you and we're begging

you to spend time with them.

What is it that that kind of
caused you to want to have them

in your classroom?

Speaker 3: Well, so really I
just loved them and I would just

see them and talk to them and
they would talk to me.

We had, we built a little
relationship together and I was

like you know what, why can't
they come with us to recess, and

why can't they come with us to
resource?

Or why don't they come for Fun
Friday or something fun?

Because their peers are here,
let's take them over.

So then I just kind of started
asking Miss Curtis like hey, do

you mind if I like borrow your
student?

Like I think they would really
enjoy this activity.

And so she let me.

And so then we just kind of
kept going from there.

But I just saw those babies and
just to build a relationship

with them.

Speaker 1: Well, and it
certainly did snowball.

It went from one student to I
don't know.

I think we were sending like
three or four at one time or

something like that.

Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we had
like four come in during

resource, which that was fun.

Speaker 1: So, so what did you
see?

You see, now let me ask you
this, miss limper, how long have

you been a teacher?

Speaker 3: oh my goodness, 19
years, fantastic you know you.

Speaker 1: You are and I mean
this in the most respectful way

you are an oddity like I'm
reading all the time these

papers about people bailing on
the teaching field because it's

hard and Laura brings up a lot.

I mean, it was hard prior to
COVID, but then after that it

added just a whole nother layer.

So thank you for being willing
to do all of that, because it

ain't the easiest job in the
world.

Speaker 2: And I know you're not
there for the money.

Speaker 3: I'm just there for
the babies.

Speaker 2: Right.

We know that.

We know that.

Speaker 1: So, over the course
of your 19 years, what would you

say were some key benefits that
you've observed in students who

participate in your classroom
that typically aren't in your

classroom?

Speaker 3: Well, I noticed.

Do you want me to talk about
like socially?

Speaker 1: Hey, you talk about
whatever you want to within

reason.

Speaker 3: So, socially, I
noticed, like my friends who

were coming, they were learning
how to interact with their

neurotypical peers.

They were building
relationships with them, they

were building confidence.

I mean, I had a student that
came to me and had a great

relationship with another
student in my class and they

communicated in a different way
than using words all the time

and that was beneficial to both
of those students because you

know they were both learning
from each other.

So, socially, I just really
feel like they were building

relationships.

Am I rambling?

Speaker 1: No, ma'am, you're
good.

Speaker 3: Okay.

So you know they were building
relationships with other

students, they're learning from
other students, they're being

able to communicate with those
students, building confidence

and their self-esteem.

Those are some things that I
noticed.

Speaker 1: Well, and we've even
seen, as a testament to what

you're talking about.

We've seen relationships that
were forged in your classroom

that are still happening today.

Like these, students will see
each other from each side of the

cafeteria and, of course, it's
our student that'll be the one

that yells out to the other one,
but they're still there.

And so what you've done, and
any teacher that does provide

that inclusion space with the
heart that you're talking about,

I want to see these children
become everything that they

possibly can, whatever that
means.

How can we help them do that?

And it's something that is
stretched beyond your classroom.

It's stretched beyond a single
year in school.

I know we had one parent tell
us of a student that went to you

that they were just blown away
at how many people, like, how

many kids, knew their child, and
it all stemmed from that being

a part of that group.

Speaker 3: Right, because it's
not just about my friends who

are coming for part of the day.

It's also about my friends that
are with me all day.

They're also learning things
from our other friends.

Speaker 1: Absolutely.

Speaker 2: I know we tried
things a little different last

year than we had before too.

We did more of that inclusion
from day one, from the get-go

First thing in the morning, day
one, and so this is kind of off

script a little bit.

What did you see?

The difference in benefits as
far as starting from the day one

to just the hey, why don't you
come on Friday?

Speaker 3: So just looking back
at those years, so when my

friends started coming on the
very first day of school, there

was no difference.

They had no.

The students that were in my
room all day had no idea that

these friends were any different
than them.

They like, oh, they're coming
in, we have another adult in

here for a little while and look
how fun this is.

Look at these new friends and
they just they were more

accepting and they built better
relationships with those

students and that makes my heart
happy, that they're together.

Speaker 2: Yes, it's really,
it's really neat to see.

Speaker 3: But that's I mean.

That's what I really noticed
was relationships were formed

and they were a part of our
class.

It was never like, oh, we need
to.

You know like oh, we have to go
get them, or whatever.

It was like when are they
coming?

We have to have them in our
room, they need to do this with

us.

Speaker 1: Like it was student
driven right and teacher driven,

if that makes sense, yeah
absolutely yeah, because you

know there's, there's a, there's
a big difference between

teacher driven and student
driven.

You know that, um, probably
better than we do, uh, but it's,

it is not.

It is not, um, out of the realm
of possibility that a teacher,

and for whatever reason, may not
understand, not be trained in

dealing with students that have
different exceptionalities.

But there are teachers that
don't want anything to do with

them, and not from a nasty like
I can't stand that kid or

anything like that, but hey, I
don't know how to help him.

So if I'm a teacher that feels
that way, like having a special

education or special needs
student in my classroom causes

my anxiety to skyrocket.

I don't know what to do.

I don't know how to approach
them.

I don't know what to do.

I don't know how to approach
them.

I don't know what are some
strategies or ideas, or maybe

even a mindset that you would
recommend to that teacher.

Speaker 3: Well, first
strategies.

Like my first thing would be we
.

Well, I feel like we, you guys,
the courtesy for myself had a

great relationship and I could
go to you and say, hey, what can

I do to help, or how can I have
this child be more successful,

what are some strategies I can
implement?

So I really feel like being
able to talk to the special

education teacher, have a little
co-teaching going on, if that's

possible.

You have a co-teacher almost
every year and I love it.

So have a co-teacher, a little
collaboration.

Those are some important things
and I mean, I don't know, maybe

my mindset is different, but
these are children.

They want to be a part of this.

I want them to be a part of it.

I need to adapt myself to help
them be in my room so that they

are successful.

I don't know.

Speaker 1: And I promise listen
to everybody that's listening to

this, which is pretty much my
mom.

I don't know if anybody else
listens to it, but she enjoys it

.

Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure other
people do, because I do it.

Speaker 1: We didn't tell you
what to say.

Okay, so you're echoing a lot
of things that we've said over

and over, and one of the things
that we've seen in our study and

in our research is what you
were just talking about the

collaboration piece.

In our study and in our
research is what you were just

talking about, the collaboration
piece people being willing to

talk to each other, to work with
each other, to support each

other for that common goal,
which is let's help this child

be everything that they can be.

Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely Go
ahead.

Speaker 3: I was going to say,
and also I know last year you

guys sent a support person
during that time that my friends

were able to be with us and
that was also very helpful

because she was able to say like
, oh, if you do this, or maybe

try this, or you know, I might
say to her like oh, oh, I don't

know, like I wasn't supposed to.

Speaker 2: Like, take the little
things right there are no more

things this year.

Speaker 3: No more things, no
more things okay so, but she was

like very, you know, and it it
prevented problems that could

have occurred.

And she's like, yeah, that's
fine, like Like it's not.

You know, I'm like, oh okay, I
just didn't know.

So it was very helpful to have
that support person there.

And then, you know, there were
times that I didn't even need

her there, even though I wanted
her all the time, but she would

be like I can't, I can't come at
this time, but my friends can

come this time, but my friends
can't come.

And so then I knew how to make
the room successful for them.

Does that make sense?

Speaker 1: Absolutely.

Speaker 3: Always the support of
everyone else around.

Speaker 1: Ain't that the truth,
though?

Like the more people you can
have on on the same page as you,

on the same team as you, I
think everybody wins.

Speaker 3: I agree.

I agree, especially our friends
.

Speaker 2: Oh, yes, so we've
talked about some of the

effective strategies and helping
.

What are some of the challenges
that you've had when trying to

make the inclusive classroom?

Speaker 3: Oh Lord, okay.

So I wrote some notes about
this.

So, like some of the things
like I think I mentioned, like

there were things that I didn't
know and I would ask about that,

like, okay, what about this,
this?

How do I work around this?

Um, and then a lot of like um
again working with the

co-teachers, talking to you guys
, um, I feel like I just got off

track.

Speaker 1: I don't know why I?

I mean, you're just a teacher,
right?

Speaker 2: Your job's a cake
walker in the day.

You can't just come in here and
I know All our brains are

probably mush right now.

Speaker 3: I'm so sorry.

Speaker 2: We're fine.

Speaker 3: I guess some things
that helped me, like lots of

differentiated instruction,
always, always, no matter what.

I just that's every day, and so
that was very beneficial to

help with that inclusive
classroom and just knowing what

they can do and how to help them
move along and succeed further.

Lots of like scaffolding, what
I'm supposed to be telling you

guys.

Yep, I keep bringing up the
thought of visual aids, like

schedules, those kinds of things
, so they would know, like this

is what is is happening now and
this is what will happen next.

Um, and then I did do pairing
like with other students, like,

okay, you, you know, remind our
friends to blah, blah you know,

whatever it might be like your
chromebook or to log in anyway.

So those were some things that I
felt were helpful in the

classroom.

Speaker 2: So, like some of the
challenges were how do you teach

them right?

So those are the strategies
that you use.

I'm sorry.

No, that's fine.

I'm giving you all the
strategies I was using.

Right?

No, I mean you answered the
second part, because the second

part, you know was how did you
do?

Those.

So it's difficult to instruct
students with so much vast

Abilities, yes, abilities, yeah,
their abilities are vast.

There's differences in that,
and so those are some of the

things that you use to address
that.

Speaker 3: Yes, I'm sorry.

I knew I was like I just lost
my train of thought.

Speaker 2: No, but did you and
we see this sometimes and we

hear this and I know that we've
had conversations during

meetings about that, that whole,
you know fair?

Did you have kids in the
classroom going?

Well, that's not fair.

How come so-and-so gets this,
or how come so-and-so?

Why can't I have that when they
can?

Speaker 3: No.

I never did that because I
implemented at the beginning of

the year.

Even every year I've always
said fair is not equal, fair is

everyone getting what they need
and I never had anyone say, well

, that's not fair.

Speaker 2: That's absolutely
true, yep.

Speaker 1: One of my favorite
things to do when a student says

that's not fair is can you tell
me what fair means and they

can't?

They just look at me like no,
that's not what you.

Can you tell me what fair means
and they can't.

They just look at me like no,
that's not what you're supposed

to say.

Speaker 3: But yeah, so I did
not.

Speaker 2: Okay, well, and
that's the way to address it,

just like if you did have that
and just by telling them you

know we get what we need and not
everything we want, and we

don't always need everything
somebody else has.

Speaker 3: And I think that's
one of the big benefits.

Of inclusion is when they, when
our friends, start at the

beginning of the year with us,
then there never is any question

of like, oh why are they
getting that and I'm not, or

that's not fair again.

You know, I always say that
every year fair is not equal

fair.

Is everyone getting what they
need.

So I just I've never really had
anybody say anything about that

, and that's great.

Speaker 1: Well, that's
something that we even realized

this year, because you know,
even as an educator, it's a

continual learning process and
we've learned that, especially

when it comes to special
education, that it is a

continuum.

You're all the time looking to
see what's going to be the next

step for each individual and
being flexible and willing to.

Our whole thing is is this a
hill I'm willing to die on right

?

Is this something that I'm, am
I ready to?

It's got to be really important
if I'm going to put myself all

into it, and we really do
appreciate your perspective and

what you've done with our
students.

So here we go, ready.

Speaker 3: Oh gosh, I got
another question.

Speaker 1: Now this one, this
one should be.

Oh, who did I hear?

Speaker 2: Did he know you were
getting ready to talk about him?

Speaker 1: I don't know.

Well, I wasn't, but we can do
that.

Speaker 2: So I'm sorry, I
thought that's where you were

headed.

Speaker 1: No, I was just going
to throw out this last question.

You go ahead, Mrs Curtis.

Speaker 2: Well, part of this
goes from.

So we talked about you being a
first grade teacher.

Do you feel like there's
benefits at starting the

inclusion process early versus
waiting until they're a little

more independent and mature and
maybe have better behaviors, and

what are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 3: I think it should
start as early as possible, like

I think we should have
inclusion, start in pre-K or

kindergarten whenever those
students enter school.

Because you I think we've
talked about this before you

model peer behavior and so if
there is a behavior they might

see those other friends modeling
appropriate behavior and then,

that would you know, they would
begin to model appropriate

behavior as well.

But yes, I think it should
start immediately Kindergarten,

pre-k, whenever students start.

You know Lawson, my son started
pre-K, pre-k, regular ed, pre-k

last year and just so many
benefits, so many benefits for

him.

So yes, I think it should start
immediately when children start

school.

Speaker 2: Mr Curtis is like
wrap it up.

No, no, no, no, not at all.

Speaker 1: No, we're good.

Hey, listen, we are.

You're preaching to the choir,
we're, you know, back here

singing the hallelujahs or
whatever, but no, and just so

you know that the Department of
Education agrees with you.

So, like coming down from the
federal government, I just want

to throw that out there.

So you're on to something there
, ms Limpert.

Okay, now Lawson.

Speaker 3: Who's Lawson?

Speaker 2: That's my baby.

Speaker 3: We know who he is
Lawson is my six-year-old, or he

will be six in February, so
soon he will turn six and he is

in kindergarten this year and he
is autistic.

Speaker 1: So, then, you have
yet another perspective when it

comes to our students, not just
the special education students

that spend time with you in your
classroom, in your general

education classroom, but you've
seen the effects personally with

your own son.

Speaker 3: Oh yes.

Speaker 1: Do you mind sharing
with us some of the things that

you've seen, the benefits of him
?

You've mentioned that there are
benefits.

What have you seen in Lawson in
the time that he's been able to

go from a special education
setting to?

Speaker 3: I'm sure y'all hear
him in the background.

Speaker 1: That's quite all
right.

Hey listen if that was the
worst that we could hear.

We're.

Speaker 3: A-OK, I'm sorry, no,
no, no, it's all good.

So he was in special education,
pre-k, and then when he turned

four, I was like you know what,
if I don't try putting him in

the regular education program,
like he's still gonna receive

all of his ip services yes,
ma'am oh, I'm going to try it,

I'm going to see.

And, um, I mean, you guys work
with special education students

so you know that most
five-year-old autistic children

do not pretend play and I agree
that all play.

You know, it doesn't matter the
way you play, it's all play.

But he never did pretend play
and probably about four months

after school started and
probably about four months after

school started, like he was
coming home and getting like

toys out that you would have to
pretend and the people talk and

like whatever.

So he was starting to do
pretend play and he was able to

sit and listen to a teacher read
a story and he could answer,

you know, basic comprehension
questions about it.

He was accepted by his peers.

You know he still jumps up and
claps and does those things, but

no one is like why are you
doing that?

Because that's just who he is
and the other children are like

oh yeah, that's him.

They move on about the day.

He's also a Gestalt language
processor and so he's in like

stage five right now.

So he's close to moving into
six and even this year just

listening to him talk like he's
having conversations that he

would have never had before, and
I always say I remember when my

older boys I have two older
boys they would say like mom,

look, look, watch this, look,
look.

And I think I can remember one
time that Lawson said that to me

.

But this school year he said it
multiple times.

Like mommy, look at this.

Or look at my work, like he'll
show me stuff.

So that's all.

Like he would have never done
that if he was not with those

peers and his special education
team and his regular education

team.

Speaker 2: So those are my
benefits All right?

What did you have to do to get
him from the you know, the small

group special education
classroom into the general

education classroom?

Speaker 3: So he was in Babies,
can't Wait at, you know, before

he turned three, turned three,
and I did put him in special

education, pre-k.

And, like I said that second
year, I was like he's four, I'm

going to try it.

And so we just had to have an
IEP meeting.

So we had an IEP meeting, we
met with the IEP team and I said

, look, I want, I want him here.

Like, I'm driving this meeting,
I'm the one in control, this is

where I want him.

I want to try it.

If it doesn't work, we can go
back.

Right, so that is what I did.

Then, um again, like he does
have supports in place this year

, because he does need someone
with him at lunch and he does

need someone with him during the
day for about a 30 minute block

during like a writing time,
right.

So those things are in place,
but other than that, that's how

we did it.

I drove that meeting and I said
this is what I want and this is

how I want it done, and if it
doesn't work, we can revisit and

regroup and make up another
plan that's going to be the most

beneficial for him.

Speaker 2: But we have to try,
yes.

Speaker 3: We always have to try
, but we have to try.

Speaker 2: Yes, we always have
to try.

Always have to try, Because if
you don't, you don't know.

That is correct.

And I know that you talked
about the behaviors and it's not

always the case, but however
there's, you know, when there's

a special education, small group
classroom, there's typically

behaviors that come along with
that Not always, but typically.

And so I know we've spoken
before and you said well, if

he's going to mimic behaviors,
where do you want him to be?

Speaker 1: With his neurotypical
peers Right yeah absolutely,

and so if somebody is listening
to this and they don't get

anything else out of this
conversation, which I want to

say thank you for being willing
to talk to us about all this.

It really has been great.

Speaker 3: I really do enjoy it.

I'm sorry I went off on a
tangent.

Speaker 1: But what I would want
a listener to take, if they can

only take one thing, is that,
like you said I love the way you

put it you drive the bus,
parent.

If you want to try it, try it.

It doesn't matter what anybody
else says.

If you want to try it, try it,
and there's no shame in trying

and going back.

I don't want to say going back
because it's not what it is Okay

, so then we'll move to this
other setting.

Speaker 3: It's just finding the
best setting for your child and

if you don't try and give them
the opportunity, you will never

know.

And as a team, you have a whole
team of people to help you set

your child up for success.

Speaker 2: Absolutely.

Speaker 1: Yep, and that's one
thing that we can say, both

having boys that have gone
through the uh, the camp.

Our school system is that we
have some fantastic teachers, uh

, in this district, and, and I
am willing to bet that there's

fantastic teachers in every
district and that any parent

that feels like their son or
daughter should have an

opportunity to at least try it
out.

Push for that, because there's
people in those buildings that

love your kid too.

Speaker 3: Yes, people, you
don't even know.

Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 1: So I think that's
about it.

Ms Lumber, did you have
anything else you wanted to say?

Speaker 3: No, thank you guys
for having me on here, and I

miss seeing you every day.

Speaker 2: We miss seeing you
too, and thanks for coming on,

and you were our first guest, so
we thank you.

Speaker 1: Yep, you're at the
top of the list.

Speaker 3: I give my little
reward now, my little treat.

Speaker 1: There you go.

Hey, be checking the school
mail, we'll send it over.

All right, so for this episode,
we're going to go ahead and

wrap it up Again.

Thank you, ms Limpert, for
hanging out with me and my

fantastic wife, laura, and we'll
talk to you guys later.