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Stories of veteran service and sacrifice straight from the people driving today’s most important veterans causes and veterans organizations around the world. The show shines a spotlight on their inspiring projects making a real difference for veterans and their families, and along the way we'll hear the stories that drive them to do their best every day as they work to support veterans and their memory.
00:00:06:04 - 00:00:20:23
Speaker 1
Hello and welcome to Story Behind the Stone, a show where we talk service, sacrifice and story. I'm your host, Matthew Cudmore. I'm so pleased to welcome you to this very special episode. We are honored to be joined by Julie Verne from the British Normandy Memorial. Thank you so much for coming on the show today, Julie.
00:00:21:04 - 00:00:23:01
Speaker 2
Well, thank you for having me, Matthew. Great to be here.
00:00:23:05 - 00:00:43:20
Speaker 1
Let's dive into the memorial. It's located in Ver-sur-Mer France, the first of its kind. 20,000 plus names on your memorial. Served under British command, fell on D-Day and during the Battle of Normandy. We're getting close to the 82nd anniversary here in 2026. And this site is just more than history, isn't it? It's about the living legacy of sacrifice.
00:00:43:20 - 00:00:49:20
Speaker 1
The bridge between generations. To start us off, could you share a little bit about your personal connection to this project on this memorial?
00:00:49:22 - 00:01:12:18
Speaker 2
Sure. Well, I've been very, very lucky to be part of this project almost since it's very inception. My background before joining the Normandy Memorial Trust has been a fundraiser, been in the charity sector for many, many years. Previous to this role, I had the privilege of working at a veterans care home and raising funds to to create a better facility for them.
00:01:12:19 - 00:01:36:04
Speaker 2
When I joined the memorial, it was, like I say, right in the beginning, and it it started really from a Normandy veteran himself, George Betts, who had campaigned for many, many years for the British to have a memorial in Normandy. And most people were really quite shocked and at the time that there wasn't one that obviously the Americans have.
00:01:36:06 - 00:02:00:13
Speaker 2
But one said the Canadians. But there's never been an actual place in one area where all the names are recorded. Of those who fell under British command on D-Day and during the Normandy campaign. He then approached Nicholas Witchell, who's our founding trustee, and Nicholas put this board together, and I then came on board with them and got to meet some of these wonderful veterans who were so seriously campaigning and fundraising to make it a reality.
00:02:00:15 - 00:02:25:02
Speaker 2
Fast forward a few years, and we had funding generously provided by some from the governments and a lot from the general public, and a lot of tin rattling by actual Normandy veterans themselves. Harry Billinge, I think, became possibly well known at one point for being our our poster boy for the memorial. So we officially opened in 2021. So we had the pandemic to deal with before that.
00:02:25:04 - 00:02:33:04
Speaker 2
But it's an absolutely beautiful, poignant place to visit and really captures the poignancy of who it is that they're remembering.
00:02:33:09 - 00:02:42:23
Speaker 1
Walk us through the architecture of the memorial. Tell us about the stone columns, the names on the memorial, some of the key architectural details that visitors can expect to see when they visit in person.
00:02:43:02 - 00:03:09:11
Speaker 2
It's definitely a place that everybody should visit if they have the opportunity. The architect who designed the memorial is actually the same architect who designed the Bomber Command, as well as the National Memorial Arboretum. His name is Liam O'Connor, and he has done it in such a beautiful design that if you see it from above, a sort of drone footage, you'll see that it's in the shape of a Union Jack, and that's 160 columns all converging to create that Union Jack shape.
00:03:09:13 - 00:03:33:14
Speaker 2
And on each column are the names of the soldiers, sailors and aviators who died on D-Day and during the Normandy campaign who were fighting under British command. Beautiful stonework from the local quarry. We had stonemasons from Ireland who have called the names on to the memorial as well. It's very, very poignant. And to the left of the memorial we've created a French memorial.
00:03:33:14 - 00:03:43:13
Speaker 2
So the dedication area and that really recognizes over 20,000 civilians who we know died during the campaign and the very much parts of what we were there to honor.
00:03:43:18 - 00:03:49:11
Speaker 1
Tell me a little bit about the experience. You're approaching the memorial. What do you feel as you're approaching?
00:03:49:13 - 00:04:12:20
Speaker 2
It's quite moving. So you have about a ten minute walk, and it's was purposely created in this way as you park your car to the right of the Winston Churchill Center for education, which is an absolute must visit after you've been to the memorial. As you walking up to the memorial, we have these eight styles and it really talks about World War Two, the campaign building up to what is then the six of June.
00:04:12:22 - 00:04:37:00
Speaker 2
So it takes you through, through each historic significant moments so that by the time you've read all these, you've come up to the memorial and you're faced with a memorial court. And the main wall, the very largest wall that you see has the names of all those who died on D-Day itself, which is 1476 people, and a British commander who died on D-Day.
00:04:37:00 - 00:05:02:16
Speaker 2
So it's quite a striking moment. And you'd look through the columns and you'll see what we call the D-Day sculpture. And this is a really emotive, poignant sculpture created by David Williams Ellis. And so three soldiers running off the beach and you really get a sense of of that sense of urgency, of concern or fear of apprehension. You can see it etched on their faces.
00:05:02:16 - 00:05:16:10
Speaker 2
You could spend a lot of time just just looking at that because you have a sense of what these poor young men had to do. Getting off those landing coves and just trying to move forward and trying to survive. And that certainly comes across in the sculpture.
00:05:16:12 - 00:05:20:01
Speaker 1
Do you recall any moments from your first visit to the memorial?
00:05:20:05 - 00:05:41:13
Speaker 2
There's something about the place, because my first visit was when it was just a field, and we were very lucky to have been able to buy the land from a number of farm owners, but just being there and standing on this field, looking across to Gold Beach because we overlook all, betrays. Most of the British troops landed with the remains of the Mulberry Harbor in the distance.
00:05:41:15 - 00:06:03:18
Speaker 2
It's something quite tangible. Almost. You can feel that there was significant history and emotion happening there, and that's why we wanted as many people as possible to come to Normandy, come to the memorial site, or to see all the beaches, really, because it's just something quite moving. And then seeing the memorial go up by stone, by stone, each pillar, each name.
00:06:03:18 - 00:06:30:04
Speaker 2
And while we were creating it was such a privilege, really, because relatives of the fallen who remembered were getting in touch. Because we asked them to, because we wanted to find out more about these people who were commemorating. And I'll never forget speaking to one of the relatives whose father is remembered on the memorial and I was having a conversation on on my mobile phone or my cell phone, in this field and watching the guys erect one of the pillars.
00:06:30:06 - 00:06:50:09
Speaker 2
And as I was talking, I actually sort of looked at the pillar and it was his father's name. It was engraved, and we were like, oh my gosh, like, it's like a photograph of him straight away. He was in tears. I was in tears. Yeah, a dream, it sort of brings it to life. And that's really what we're wanting to do is, is to make us real for everybody, but especially for, for future generations.
00:06:50:09 - 00:07:01:23
Speaker 2
These aren't just names. These were people who had wives, brothers, fathers, mothers, girlfriends at home, you know, lives cut short like you should just be remembered.
00:07:01:23 - 00:07:05:23
Speaker 1
But is there a particular story or reaction from a visitor that's stayed with you?
00:07:06:04 - 00:07:29:05
Speaker 2
A lot of people find really quite striking all the ages. That's a very common comment that comes back to us because we we recognize their names, but next to their name we record their ages as well. So there are, for example, for 16 year olds who are remembered on the memorial. And so many of them were so young, you know, 17, 18, 19, 20.
00:07:29:07 - 00:07:49:19
Speaker 2
And it really resonates and hits home, you know, for teenagers or young people visiting for the first time have no real, you know, recollections, you know, connection necessarily. But when they see somebody who may even have some of the name to their own and around the same age, I think it really hits home that it's it wasn't just something that happened.
00:07:49:19 - 00:07:53:10
Speaker 2
These were people, and I think that's what really comes across.
00:07:53:10 - 00:08:01:00
Speaker 1
There are 22,000 plus names engraved on the stonework at the memorial, but not all of them are British. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?
00:08:01:02 - 00:08:27:18
Speaker 2
The memorial actually recognizes all those who fought and died under British command, and that actually includes over 30 other nations who are remembered on the memorial. So, for example, we have 404 Canadians who are remembered. A lot of them came to the Can loan scheme. We also have 15 Americans who are remembered and 197 Australians. And then there's obviously Polish, South Africans.
00:08:27:20 - 00:08:33:15
Speaker 2
It list goes on and on. And it's a really indicative sign of how we all came together.
00:08:33:16 - 00:08:36:14
Speaker 1
Julie, there's still names being added to the memorial, if I'm not mistaken.
00:08:36:18 - 00:08:58:09
Speaker 2
That's correct. Yes. And to be honest, I work on the rule of honor has never stopped our research on it. And that's purely because during wartime, record keeping was a bit erratic. Understandably so. So we've worked very closely with the Commonwealth War Graves Commissions, with a number of historians in trying to collate as detailed and accurate a list as possible.
00:08:58:09 - 00:09:17:12
Speaker 2
So we knew when we were building the memorial ultimately that more names might still be uncovered. And we left space on the memorial wall to do that. And we've really pleased that over the years a number of people have come forward, relatives who thought maybe they, their loved one should be on there. But, you know, details were a bit sketchy.
00:09:17:14 - 00:09:53:19
Speaker 2
We used to have about 57 of the new names, O.P. added, but people who were injured in Normandy were flown home and later died. So the record keeping of that time didn't have them down as a Normandy casualty or being part of that campaign necessarily. So there was always going to be gaps within our knowledge, and we've worked really hard to try and find these people and then to find the relatives actually, because some came from relatives, but most of the 98 whose names we're adding, heavens, one of the people who we're actually remembering on the memorial, and whose name will be added on the 5th of June, is Richard Miller Barclay.
00:09:53:19 - 00:10:24:05
Speaker 2
And he's an American who served with the RAF. He's originally from the United States Naval Reserve and was attached to our 34 Recce Wing of the Royal Air Force. He died on the 6th of June, and was aged 25. And again more and more things are coming to light and and it's wonderful. I think the 5th of June, when we're going to be having the ceremony specifically for these 98 new names, people to commemorate them finally being recognized alongside their comrades and for their contribution to the campaign.
00:10:24:09 - 00:10:38:01
Speaker 1
You mentioned earlier the Winston Churchill Center for education. Tell us a little bit about what visitors, school groups, teachers are doing there, and all of the amazing things and resources on offer at the center.
00:10:38:03 - 00:10:59:17
Speaker 2
Well, the Winston Churchill Center for education is very much an ambition of the Normandy veterans himself, who not only wanted the memorial, but they wanted to make sure that the legacy of their fallen friends would continue, and that future generations would not forget the sacrifice and to learn from the past. Creating this center was very key to what we set out to do initially.
00:10:59:18 - 00:11:25:09
Speaker 2
We're very lucky to raise the funds and officially opened by the King and Queen for D-Day 80, in 2024. The center itself is a lovely visitor space, so you can come and we have got two gallery areas where sort of showcases information about veterans. We have a lovely film that kind of puts things into context as well. And there's a cafe and a shop and costume space that we use there as well for visiting schools.
00:11:25:11 - 00:11:50:03
Speaker 2
We have gone on further, to really develop our education program and offering this is very much targeted to our visiting schools, which numbers have increased significantly. But we were really, really looking for a way in which we could engage children in ways that appeal to them, appeal to their learning and how they would engage with the people in the memorial and with the storytelling, which is very much what we're about again.
00:11:50:05 - 00:12:14:09
Speaker 2
Sort of telling more about the person behind the name. And that program is called Operation Remembrance, which we only recently launched. That's very exciting. So we've been working with a number of partners as well and creating a very comprehensive learning package. So there's resources for for schools online on our Winston Churchill Centers or website. You can find the whole gamut of information of what's available from our schools.
00:12:14:11 - 00:12:37:13
Speaker 2
One of the elements before I go into more sort of details is that we've created a new youth Ambassador project, and our very first youth ambassador for the center is Alexander Churchill, who is the great great grandson of Sir Winston Churchill. Now he's only 11 years old, but he's a very charming, very competent and very emotionally mature young man, I'd say.
00:12:37:15 - 00:13:02:14
Speaker 2
And part of his role and what he really wants to bring forward as the ambassador, is to meet veterans of World War Two, not necessarily just of Normandy campaign, but across experiences and interview them, with the idea being that's ultimately what he wants to learn is what his generation can learn from this. So it's a really natural, lovely conversation and interviews that he's had with these veterans.
00:13:02:14 - 00:13:20:12
Speaker 2
And you can see that on the websites and meet the veterans with Alexander's interviews. And we've got a few more that are going to be added very soon. In addition to that, when we have schools coming to visits, they get in touch with us in advance and we ask them where they are coming from. And this is a really important part of what we're doing on our digital role on it.
00:13:20:13 - 00:13:40:11
Speaker 2
We can have a look and they can have a look and see how many people from their local area are remembered on the memorial, and who are they now for some of them, we might have more information. We might have had relatives been in touch and have shared photographs of individuals from that area, or lost letters, homes or sort of interesting personal information.
00:13:40:11 - 00:13:58:09
Speaker 2
But for many, we still don't have that information. So what we're doing is encouraging children before they come to see us to choose one of those soldiers, sailors, women, and do a bit of their own research, but do their own detective work. And we give them some guidance by our researcher, as well as to where they can go and what they can do to find out.
00:13:58:11 - 00:14:21:01
Speaker 2
They then undertake that, and if they find anything and we can verify it, it's added to that role of on a record. And they are credited for their contribution, which is really lovely. But the idea of doing that is that it creates a personal connection so that when they do come to visit the memorial, they will go and find their person on the memorial, they'll find their name and have that real connection to them.
00:14:21:01 - 00:14:27:08
Speaker 2
Now it's more than just a name. It's somebody whose life was lived and lost for their freedom.
00:14:27:08 - 00:14:34:17
Speaker 1
You're applying, I think, in a really responsible and interesting way as well. You also have some virtual reality going on at the center, don't you?
00:14:34:20 - 00:14:59:03
Speaker 2
Yes, absolutely. So as part of this package, in addition to the research, when when the children arrive at the memorial or at the Winston Churchill Center, they first have an introduction by Normandy veteran Ken Hay, who is wonderful in how he engages young people. So we've managed to capture his personality and his essence and his story really in this fantastic film that children are introduced to on arrival.
00:14:59:06 - 00:15:20:22
Speaker 2
And it really sets D-Day within the context of World War Two, really kind of sets the scene. And they understand why they, they who these people represent and how it came to be. After that, they get split into three groups and they take part in what we call Operation Remembrance, which consists of three stations. The first one is a series of games that's not gamifying D-Day.
00:15:20:22 - 00:15:44:02
Speaker 2
It's not glorifying war on any level. But these are strategy informational quiz type games at test knowledge that help them do it again and again to to get a better score. Because we know, like children like to be competitive with their friends, but we are kind of tricking them into learning at the same time about what happened in terms of strategy and planning for D-Day.
00:15:44:03 - 00:16:06:19
Speaker 2
They then move on to station two, which is very exciting, and they sit around and very old fashioned radio and has a screen on the back, and they have an opportunity to tune in and see on the screen if they could speak to a soldier, sailors and airmen who was there on D-Day. So a named person. So, for example, Ken Cook, as I soldier, children have an opportunity to speak directly to Ken using AI.
00:16:06:20 - 00:16:27:13
Speaker 2
But in the voice of an 18 year old is how he's answering them. So they can relate a little bit more to that voice than potentially a hundred year old man saying, this is what happened. So it feels a bit more real to children in that sense, but they can ask anything, and all the information that the AI can is using is drawn from real life testimony from real life Ken and his experiences.
00:16:27:13 - 00:16:57:13
Speaker 2
So we've tested a number of questions and scenarios and all sorts. We actually worked with the wonderful school Saint John's Comprehensive, who helped shape this experience for educating and really gave us the feedback that we wanting to do to create something quite special. The final station that they perform on Operation Remembrance is the virtual reality experience. So this is where they use VR headsets and they are in occupied France as Allied spies, and they are given a reconnaissance mission.
00:16:57:13 - 00:17:23:08
Speaker 2
Firstly, they have to escape capture from the Nazis and then they have this reconnaissance mission to take photographs of maps, derail trains, all sorts of things that are part of what was actually happening at the time. So it's really trying to give children a sense from all these three stations of different elements of what was involved. So with channeling, Operation Fortitude and a number of other things that kind of set the scene, but in a, an engaging way that they can learn from.
00:17:23:08 - 00:17:45:15
Speaker 2
So it doesn't feel like they're just sitting down and somebody talking at them for an hour. It's about learning in a fun way, I suppose. And that's Operation Remembrance, which has become very popular. Unfortunately, we don't have the space right now to accommodate all the children in one go to do it. So we are doing some fundraising to extend our education center so that we can accommodate more children in the whole education program.
00:17:45:15 - 00:17:48:18
Speaker 1
For educators listening, what's the best way for them? Get involved.
00:17:48:18 - 00:18:09:15
Speaker 2
First, go to our website. We have a microsite which is being created called Winston Churchill center.org. You'll find a wealth of information on there in terms of what the experience is for, for schools to visit. We would love to welcome more children from across the world. We'd love to see more Canadians and Americans and Australians and to really sort of open up what we're doing there.
00:18:09:15 - 00:18:21:20
Speaker 2
So this opportunity to register online to book your visits, then we'll be in touch with you and help you devise the best program for your visit. Depending on the number of children you're bringing and their age range.
00:18:21:21 - 00:18:30:14
Speaker 1
It's the 82nd anniversary D-Day, June 6th, 2026. What can visitors expect if they're able to register to visit the memorial this June?
00:18:30:16 - 00:19:02:05
Speaker 2
We would love for people to join us. You would need to register online. So if you go to British Normandy Memorial Walk, there's an opportunity there for you to register your interest in attending. It will be a very beautiful, touching service that's will be attended by some of the remaining Normandy veterans. We are so very pleased to be joined by the families of so Winston Churchill, as well as Montgomery, as well as Admiral Ramsay's, relatives who will be joining us for this occasion.
00:19:02:07 - 00:19:33:03
Speaker 2
It will also be a lovely opportunity for people to see standing with Giants, which is our display that is in the wildflower meadow of the memorial. It's a very poignant silhouette display of 1476 silhouettes that represents the number of fallen soldiers, sailors and airmen on D-Day itself. And see, to see that, you know, physically, that number laid out in the shape of these these soldiers is really quite poignant.
00:19:33:03 - 00:19:54:08
Speaker 2
And we very pleased to be able to bring back the installation again this year. So that's certainly something very special that they'll be able to see if they visit. And of course, there's a Winston Churchill Center and we serve a wonderful cup of tea as well as scones or scones, depending on how you wish to say it, and lots of lovely knickknacks to purchase in our shop.
00:19:54:08 - 00:19:59:02
Speaker 1
There's so much to look forward to. Julie, how can listeners follow the memorials work, and support your work?
00:19:59:04 - 00:20:17:22
Speaker 2
Well, we'd love it if you sign up for our newsletter again on the website. British Normandy memorial.org as opportunity on the home page to sign up, and we'll keep you in touch with everything that's going on. But we will not bombard you. You'll see on the website as well opportunities to really get involved through becoming a guardian of the memorial.
00:20:17:22 - 00:20:41:02
Speaker 2
This is a very special campaign and our guardians are very special to us. These are donors who have chosen a person to remember on the memorial specifically, and through a regular giving program, they ensure that the legacy of that person, whether they're related to them or not. So we'll know anything about them other than they were 19 and served in the Army and fell on the 18th of June, for example.
00:20:41:04 - 00:21:07:02
Speaker 2
They are dedicated to making sure that their legacy survives by supporting the memorial. It pays for the protection and maintenance of the memorial itself, but it also helps to inform our education program. And as we mentioned before, the storytelling elements and bringing those to life is really relevant. So please consider becoming a guardian if you have the opportunity or just to make a donation to keep the story and the legacy of these people to whom we owe so much alive.
00:21:07:05 - 00:21:19:02
Speaker 1
Julie Verne, thank you so much for coming on the show today to chat with us and share more about the British Normandy Memorial. It's been such a pleasure and we are cheering you on as you approach D-Day 2026. Thank you for coming on the show.
00:21:19:08 - 00:21:26:10
Speaker 2
Thank you very much for having me.
00:21:26:12 - 00:21:39:12
Speaker 1
Thanks so much for tuning in. Story Behind the Stone is available on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, and on the Wreaths Across America Radio Network on iHeartRadio. Audacity and tune in to search for wreath.
00:21:39:14 - 00:21:40:15
Speaker 1
Thank you for tuning in.