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Welcome to the Women of HubSpot, a podcast celebrating the voices shaping marketing, technology, and the ever-evolving HubSpot ecosystem. Hosted by George B. Thomas from Sidekick Strategies. Each episode brings you the stories, strategies, and superpowers of the women driving this industry forward. It's their time. It's their mic. This… is Women of HubSpot.
Welcome to the Women of HubSpot podcast, the show that celebrates the voices shaping marketing, technology, and the ever evolving HubSpot ecosystem. Hosted by George B. Thomas from Sidekick Strategies. Each episode brings you the stories, strategies, and superpowers of the women driving this industry forward. It's their time.
Intro/Outro:It's their mic. This is Women of HubSpot.
George B. Thomas:Hey, ladies and gentlemen. It's your boy, George b Thomas, and we're back with another episode of Women of HubSpot and I'm super excited because well, you're gonna get a chance to listen into a dope conversation of a woman who is amazing, uses HubSpot, works at HubSpot and does all sorts of things, has ideas and thoughts about the questions that we are asking. By the way, might be wondering why are we doing the Women of HubSpot? Well, I am a father of two girls and there's a story that if you've listened to historical episodes, you know it's all about football and a quarterback. And if you haven't, then go listen to historical episodes.
George B. Thomas:But without further ado, we're going to get in it today with Melanie Bohulu. Melanie, how the heck are you doing today?
Mélanie N.B.:I'm doing great. I'm doing great. Thank you, George. Super excited to be here.
George B. Thomas:Yeah, think we're going to have a really good conversation and let's go ahead and kick it off with the first question. I always love asking this to see where brains go. Melanie, if you could go back in time and meet the young Melanie Bohulu just starting out, what would you see and what would she be most surprised about where you are now in life?
Mélanie N.B.:That's an excellent question. I think she'd be proud because young Melanie would doubt herself a lot. She was aware of her potential, but she couldn't really identify where and how she'd make the most of them and how to share her gifts as well. She'd be proud of today's Melanie because she's become more daring and less doubting herself.
George B. Thomas:Oh, I think that's the first moment, ladies and gentlemen, more daring and less doubting. And I think that all of us could use that. So obviously Melanie, you've been on a journey, right? The doubting Melanie to the daring Melanie. Along the way, who have been some of your biggest inspirations or mentors along the way?
Mélanie N.B.:You know what? This may be surprising because the people that have inspired me have absolutely nothing to do with the job that I do right now. It has more to do with, I'd say their mentality. One is a very famous salsa singer called Ruben Bladis. Once again, very odd.
Mélanie N.B.:Why? Because the guy is a singer. He's also an actor. He's also an activist. He's also a lawyer.
Mélanie N.B.:He's also I think he was a minister at some point. Yeah. He was a deputy in his country. Why him? Because he's living proof that you can be exactly whoever you want to be and still make sense.
Mélanie N.B.:And to me, for someone who's interested in so so many things that have apparently no connection no connections in between them, I struggled to make sense of all the things that I was interested in because it was not logical. And I later understood that it was not something that was expected of me as well. Like, there was an element of me making sense for other people. And once I realized that, okay, well, this guy is doing everything and still he's relevant. There's no reason for me not to do that.
Mélanie N.B.:So I'd say him first. And people in general who are multipotential and they just go about whatever they feel like doing. And on a very, I'd say domestic aspect, I'll go for my mom and my sisters. That's very, very cliche, but it is very, very true, especially as now that I'm an adult, then I'm a partner and I'm also a mom. I get to understand finally what it takes to navigate this life.
Mélanie N.B.:And when I look back at everything that they have all done, because I'm the youngest girl in my family, after me it's boys and it's a different story. I'm like, yeah, I have to live up to their standards because they've, they have raised the bar so high. The one thing actually that I feel is inspiring because they all have different personalities they're very very different but they have this thing in common they do not compromise they are extremely clear about their visions what they want and then they do not negotiate with anyone And to me, I was like, yeah, for someone who actually spends her youth doubting herself. At some point I had a piff and I was like, yeah, I need to follow their lead. And so far it has been quite beneficial.
George B. Thomas:I love so much about that portion that you just shared. I mean, this idea of being able to be multifaceted and it be okay and to be living a life doing the things that you want to do, but then also following that up with your mother and your sisters in this idea of having a vision and then like not straying from it, like staying consistent to go in that direction. Also, you hit a nerve with like raising the bar. I too have what I would consider probably some folks in my life who I look at that bar and I'm like, Okay, George, you can do better. So let's do better.
George B. Thomas:All right. So Melanie, along the way, this journey that we're talking about today, have there ever been any like hurdles or biases that you've had to overcome in your career? And if so, and when, how did you navigate them?
Mélanie N.B.:I am still in the in the process of finding my way through some of that. I figured some things and there are other things that I'm still trying to understand but I think that I'm more what changes is that I'm more at peace with not understanding everything right away. Most of the hurts I faced or any type of resistance was mainly based on how I perceived myself. For the most part of my life, I thought that I had an absolute obligation to make sense to people. When I speak to them, I wanted them to have a clear idea of who I was while I was still trying to figure out who I was.
Mélanie N.B.:So this led to interesting situations when I had to over apologize, over explain, over justify myself and in the process, losing what made me, me. Now, I understand that we're all individuals. We're all trying to figure out who we are first because we are in ever evolving states. Like, you're not the same person you were ten years ago, for instance, unfortunately. So you still have to keep that window open of self discovery.
Mélanie N.B.:And when you interact with people, they will act according to what they understand of you. And this once again is to a large severity of situations. But what is most important is how you're going to respond to that based on who you think you are. And that's what made a difference. So the herds I'd say without naming names or getting into too much details of, you know, past experiences that have really hurt me, I would just say, well, things happened because at that very moment I wasn't sure who I was and I've let people just projecting their understanding of who they thought I was to me and have accepted it.
Mélanie N.B.:So yeah, this is interesting because when you have that level of self awareness and you get to speak to people who understand that, then the dynamic changes and magic happens. And you get to make magical connections. And, this is what I keep my focus on.
George B. Thomas:Yeah. Well, I love your focus. And I gotta be honest with you. I'm like, man, I love how Melanie's brain works in the words that are coming out of your mouth. I mean, when you started that, you hit me in a good way with like a mental two by four of like just having the peace to understand that I don't need to know at all.
George B. Thomas:I'm like, okay, let me lean in and listen to what the rest of this is going to be about. Like, this is so good. And I think that there's so many life lessons and just personal lessons, especially around self awareness that you're kind of dropping here. So along this journey, let's talk about you're at work. It could be HubSpot.
George B. Thomas:It could be before HubSpot. Again, you've been on on a journey. Have you ever faced a moment where you felt underestimated, maybe even overlooked, maybe even out of place, like in the industry, in the job? And if so, when that happened, like how do you handle that?
Mélanie N.B.:More than once have I felt this way without knowing if it was true or not. That's the subtlety here, but it has happened quite often. But whenever I would have this feeling, would automatically ask myself, okay, do you have proof of that? Or is it just you thinking that this is what is going on? Have you been told something or have you noticed either a certain behavior or a pattern?
Mélanie N.B.:If so, okay. Let's see how you can respond to that while preserving your integrity, while not compromising on what you have to offer and your value. And I think that's how I've managed to quote unquote survive these moments. But yes, I'd say some situations would definitely be the result of my own insecurities being projected on a specific situation because my brain would identify some things and would immediately go, stop everything, danger. And there were other instances where it was actually true, but it was 100% of the cases, it would be based on misunderstanding.
Mélanie N.B.:And this is when your emotional intelligence and your communication skills come into place. Like you need to break down the situation to make sure that first, do I understand what's going on? If so, okay. Please walk me through what led you to think such and such. Maybe this is something I've done or haven't done.
Mélanie N.B.:Maybe it's something I've said or have not said that I that I was supposed to say. Let's be sure that we do not turn this situation into something recurrent. Let's make things comfortable for the both of us because I feel hurt and definitely there's some sort of an annoyance on the other side. So I'm very much in favor of demystifying situations instead of letting them build and add drama to it because we're emotionally involved. And also it has happened in a very few instances, but it has happened unfortunately.
Mélanie N.B.:If I see that there's no room for, you know, communication, I just redraw myself. I'm like, okay, that's fine. I, my responsibility is to make sure that it doesn't leave. So I will not interact. I'm not going to fit the situation.
Mélanie N.B.:And if it has to leave, it's going to leave somewhere else involving other people. So that's how, so far I've managed to, to, to navigate those trouble waters.
George B. Thomas:Yeah, this is, this is so good. The idea of being able to pay attention to when to remove yourself. What I love too, is you leaned into this, the idea of demystifying what's happening. It's so powerful. You even mentioned emotional intelligence.
George B. Thomas:Honestly, I think we're having a self awareness, intelligence conversation right now during this interview that people, I hope they pick up what you're laying down because these are some key fundamental pieces to help you navigate the world that you have to navigate. And I would say on a personal and professional level. So, so, so good. Okay, let's keep rolling down the road here. This one, I swear we're going to, we're going to start arcing up into what I call the, you know, mountaintop questions, but this might be the valid question because super curious if you've ever in life experienced like what would be considered a significant failure or setback.
George B. Thomas:And in that failure or setback, like what was the lesson that you learned out of that?
Mélanie N.B.:Trust your gut. Trust your gut. Like, your gut has no business in lying to you. Trust it. Trust it.
Mélanie N.B.:It might be counterintuitive sometimes, often, but look at the results. I cannot count the amount of times I've said to myself, hey, I should have listened to myself on this one. But it's okay. It's okay because it's a lesson learned. And the good thing about life is when you don't learn your lesson, it's just it's just gonna repeat until you get it.
Mélanie N.B.:So there are two options here. I either understand right away and it doesn't happen again, or it's going to repeat itself until I understand. So I'm always being given a chance to be better. And that's the generally when I try to process what I perceive as a failure and I really insist on the word perceive. This is how I try to wire my brain.
Mélanie N.B.:I'm like, okay, what is it that I'm going to put an emphasis on for me to help me process what's going on? And it's generally, okay, I have been given an opportunity to act a certain way. I didn't seize it. That's fine. There's going be others.
George B. Thomas:Again, so good. Like, I love this idea of following your gut. I wish more people would pay attention to the gut. The gut is a lot closer to the heart of the matter when you're dealing with this. There's so many good pieces in here.
George B. Thomas:I love what you're laying down as kind of these foundational principles, ways to wire your brain, this idea. And it's almost for somebody like you, when you start to answer, I feel like I'm asking you a trick question. Meaning when I say significant failure, you're very much like me where I'm like, well, there is no failure. There's still like learning lessons and having or wiring your mind to that of look, everything that we go through life, it's building us to become something and it's lessons along the way. So stinking good.
George B. Thomas:Okay. Talk to me about the word empowerment, Melanie. What does empowerment mean to you? And how do you feel like you pass that on to others in your life and in your field?
Mélanie N.B.:The word itself embodies so much. I'll try to, you know, phrase things in a way that I don't have to talk too much because I will have a lot to say, but empowerment would mean from an individual perspective, self awareness. You can only be powerful if you know who you are. So self awareness is important and knowing who you are at a certain time of your life doesn't mean that you know who you are point blank. It's an ever going process.
Mélanie N.B.:It's like a muscle that you have to work on. So that would be one thing. Also, would mean do everything that can fill your cup. So it can be easier for you to pour into other cups whenever it's needed. You can pour from an empty cup, obviously.
Mélanie N.B.:And it's important to know yourself enough to identify what you love and go for it. So, you know, it circles back to the idea of, you know, what I've mentioned earlier, if you're a multi potential person then go for whatever makes your heart happy and because your heart will be so full and whenever you interact with people who need some of what you are you're gonna give it abundantly because that's another thing it's abundance when you understand that it's out there for everyone there's a saying that my mom says all the time there's food and drink for everyone and that's very very true once you believe that you get to to be filled quite quickly and to, to, to share what you have easily as well. You know, you don't act from scarcity, but really with the intimate conviction that whatever I have is abundant and it is worth, sharing. Now it is also very, I'd say it's very tied to my Christian faith as well. It's about the, for those who are quite familiar with the word, it's about the fruit of the spirits, what the spirit creates in you.
Mélanie N.B.:And when you understand that one, you have not been created by mistake, you've put on this earth with a specific mission and you have been given the toolkit to do exactly what you need to do and that whatever situation you go through, will be provided. This is empowerment to me. And one last thing I'd say that the effect of that on others, when people speak to you or about you, about how it made them feel to interact with you also feeds into your own self empowerment because you know you have literally quote unquote that power this one was handed to you some will call power some will call it gifts whatever happens this is something that you have and that you can share So yeah, this to me is empowerment. I've tried to, you know, synthesize my thoughts, but yeah, I hope this makes sense.
George B. Thomas:No, I think you did a great job. First of all, I need to give it a hashtag preach. I'm just saying. Second thing that I'll say is that ladies and gentlemen, you probably need to just hit the rewind button, put that last segment on loop, fall asleep to it and wake up believing in the gifts and power that you have. So amazing.
George B. Thomas:I love that we went there. I love that we're also, I feel like the thing that I'm going to come back to that I love about this conversation most is that we are not having a surface level conversation. We are having a deep in the trenches like, listen, ladies and gentlemen, these are the things that you should be paying attention to. Now, Melanie, I asked that question about what does empowerment mean to you? Because I have a follow-up question.
George B. Thomas:So I set you up, but in the most kindest of ways that I could, because we know what you think about empowerment, can you share a moment in your career, and for you, I'm even going to say career or life, where you felt especially empowered or proud of something that you achieved?
Mélanie N.B.:Because I see victory in everything. There's a lot. It could be my daughter finally accepting that I give her a hug instead of going straight to her father. It can also be believing in a work project and advocating for it and see coming to fruition to put everything on the same level. But if you'd like me to provide you with actual example, work related would be and I try to say a lot of things without saying too much because I'm not too sure how much I can share but I'd say that whenever I have identified something that no one else's have seen as a gap to fill, and I would come forward and say, this is what I have identified.
Mélanie N.B.:And I will be first met with either doubt or silent, which is a polite way to say, be quiet, Mel, because we're not interested in it. And still being stubborn enough to just go ahead and, you know, try to design something that would not only help solve that specific gap, but something that can be scaled. It has happened a couple of times. I'm very, very proud of it. This is something that I remind myself whenever I have episodes of self doubts at work, you can do it because you've done that before.
Mélanie N.B.:Just take a couple of steps back. Look at what you've done. You can do it again. So yeah, I would use this as an example, hoping that it's enough.
George B. Thomas:No, it is. Again, I'm loving the way that you're able to dance with a powerful answer to the questions that I'm asking. Melanie, if you could change one thing about how women are supported in this industry, magic wand moment, what would be the one thing that you would change?
Mélanie N.B.:If I had a magic wand, I would point it into each and everyone's head to remove all type of bias. Because the reason why we need a support system is because the system is not enough to support us. We shouldn't be in that situation in the first place. Like if we truly believe in equality, we shouldn't be thinking about how to create a support system because the system should be supporting us in the first place. So if I wanted to change something, yes, I would find a way to remove all types of bias in the minds of those who are in a position to make decisions.
Mélanie N.B.:This would avoid women having to apologize for their ambition, for who they are. You know, in 2026, we still have debates on whether we should be choosing between being mothers on having or having a career or, you know, being a spouse. Like, it shouldn't happen. It shouldn't happen, and yet it's still happening. So Mhmm.
Mélanie N.B.:If I had the chance to do that, I would definitely do a structural change, like, from the top. Like, let's think about how we can support women. No. Let's support women. Point blank.
George B. Thomas:Yeah. I love so good. So good. Okay. This is called the Women of HubSpot podcast.
George B. Thomas:So Melanie, have at least asked one question related to HubSpot. And so are there any particular tools, strategies, trends like in or around HubSpot that excites you right now?
Mélanie N.B.:Oh, definitely. Anything AI related, well, that's very broad, of course, but, you know, I've been on maternity leave from 2024 to mid twenty twenty five. And when I was away, a lot has happened. Before I left, there were only discussions around how to implement AI in our systems. When I came back, everything changed.
Mélanie N.B.:And I was like, yes, this is what I'm talking about. So I just got very excited to navigate through everything that has been implemented. I was also happy to be given the possibility to provide feedback on how we can do better. Since I'm also having a look at what's being done elsewhere, can easily identify where, when we are on the right track and where we need to get better. And the nice thing about HubSpot is that they always have an ear for internal feedback and they generally listen to you.
Mélanie N.B.:So me, along with my teammates, we've been provided a space of expression to not only say what works and what doesn't work, but really come forward with strategic thinking, which is really great. Now, tool wise, because I'm an inbound professor and I get to literally do instructional designer, anything that helps me with content creation is just blessed. So when it comes to reviewing content or writing scenarios for videos using Gemini or Clode is literally top tier. I think I've reduced my workload from 30 to 40% based on my estimation, which is huge. Same with video editing.
Mélanie N.B.:We get a lot of hands on work and this can be extremely time consuming. Whoever is a video editor out there knows exactly what I'm talking about. So having an AI so having a AI powered video editing tool also helps a lot. I'd say company wide and industry wide having to dive deeper into how to make the most of AI really excites me. And when it comes to my day to day tasks, those tools are really the ones that excites me as well.
George B. Thomas:Totally agree with you. Okay. As we land the plane, I got a couple more questions and we'll get you back to normal life and, and, just changing lives and impacting people. What has been the most rewarding aspect of your career so far?
Mélanie N.B.:Being handed a mic and being told we're listening to you. And I was like, oh, do I have anything interesting for you to say like me, why me? But more than once I've been approached by people who would look at my work from afar and be like, yeah, I think that, you know, we have this event that's coming. I think your input and your insight will be totally valuable. So please come.
Mélanie N.B.:And once again, I'm thinking about young self doubting Melanie and I'm like, oh, oh, you wanna listen to me? Oh, alright. And I would work on presentations being terrified. Like, you know, the the the the end of Scooby Doo episodes when they have to unmask the villain. I was thinking about that.
Mélanie N.B.:Like, they would just unmask me and be like, oh my god. She's a fraud. Having people who would trust me 100% and would trust my expertise and would literally see my accomplishments and my career path as something valuable enough to make me someone that's worth listening to. That's a massive reward for me.
George B. Thomas:Yeah. I love it. I love so good. Okay. I'm based on the conversation so far, I am so interested to see how you're going to answer this next question.
George B. Thomas:I have a sneaking suspicion is not going to be the answer that I have gotten from most historically, but we'll see. Melanie, you have been on this journey from, you know, doubting Melanie to daring Melanie to picking up the mic to being excited about AI. So you are who you are and where you are now. What are your long term goals?
Mélanie N.B.:That's vague, but hear me out. It's funny because I'm on a professional and on a personal journey. They tend to mirror each other a lot. And I think that I want to be just an improved version of what I've become. So I'm daring.
Mélanie N.B.:I want to be even more daring and see what doors is going to open to me. You know, I have a list of wishes and dreams and projects that I've written back in 2010. So it's been a very long time. And I wrote that list as if there was no limits in life. And I made the promise to myself to tick those boxes as life will pass by.
Mélanie N.B.:And I've never let go of that list. So I would go back to that list actually and see what else I can tick. What is the wildest thing I want to do and I'll see if I can tick that box. So professionally wise, I hope that I will get more into strategic thinking and operations because I've proven to be an excellent executor after nearly five years in HubSpot. And personally, I will try to actually go to my list and see what is the wildest thing I can do to challenge what I'm taking for granted.
Mélanie N.B.:Today I said that I'm daring Melanie, but it doesn't mean that it's the end. Like, I'm going to challenge myself. Are you that daring? Okay. What is it that you have in that list that's going to push your limits?
Mélanie N.B.:And on a personal level, I definitely do that. And this is how I see my future. I don't know what it's going to mean. What am I going to do? But this is the feeling I want to get.
Mélanie N.B.:I want to be challenged. And I know that this challenge is professionally wise is going to be translated through me pushing myself into areas in which I have to express strategic ideas. I have to present what I believe is going make a difference team wise, market wise and company wise.
George B. Thomas:All right. Last two questions as we land the plane. What's a surprising or little known fact about you that people might not expect Melanie?
Mélanie N.B.:The first language I've spoken because I you could hear from my accent that I'm not a native English speaker. I speak French. The very first language that I've spoken ever is actually Flemish. I started to speak French at around the age of four, I believe. But until then, my first words were in Flemish or Dutch.
George B. Thomas:Okay. Very interesting.
Mélanie N.B.:Now because I have forgotten everything. Like, whenever I go back to Belgium, I'm like, oh, I couldn't believe I was speaking that language fluently. And I'm pretty sure some people know that. Once again, I'm an open book. But that's that's the thing.
Mélanie N.B.:Being an open book is a, is I do this on purpose because I am pushing myself to show myself as someone who's not only one thing. Yes. I'm an inbound professor who's passionate about customer education. That's very sure, but I'm also a musician. Everybody knows that I'm a percussionist and I evolve in the London scene around different Latin music orchestras, for instance.
Mélanie N.B.:They're not connected, but it's still me. And yeah, and I'm recovering Dutch speaker.
George B. Thomas:Yeah. So good. So good. Alright. Finish this sentence for me.
George B. Thomas:Success to me means blank.
Mélanie N.B.:Success to me means freedom. Now, freedom can be vague, but, whatever you need to, you know, the thing that you identify and that you feel you need to get yourself freed from, get yourself free from that. Yeah. I think that the first word that comes to mind is really freedom.
George B. Thomas:I love it so much. Melanie, this has been amazing. Ladies and gentlemen, if you enjoy this interview, the only thing I ask is let Melanie know. Find her on LinkedIn and just give her the praises that she deserves. Also, go listen to another episode of the Women of HubSpot podcast if you haven't listened to them all because there are nuggets like these that you can learn from in life.
George B. Thomas:And remember, next time we meet in the next video, remember to be a happy, helpful, humble human, and of course, do some happy HubSpotting along the way.