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What if you could get more of what you want in life? But not through pushing, forcing, or pressure.
You can.
When it comes to money, time, and energy, no one’s gonna turn away more.
And Kate Northrup, Bestselling Author of Money: A Love Story and Do Less and host of Plenty, is here to help you expand your capacity to receive all of the best.
As a Money Empowerment OG who’s been at it for nearly 2 decades, Kate’s the abundance-oriented best friend you may not even know you’ve always needed.
Pull up a chair every week with top thought leaders, luminaries, and adventurers to learn how to have more abundance with ease.
And then when it comes to on how to use money, like, I absolutely talk to my kids about margins. I'm not fun. You know, charge the right price.
Kate Northrup:No. It's the best.
Nicole Walters:It's the best. I know. I'm like, I'm so unfun. We talk about not doing things for free. Yes.
Nicole Walters:You know, that their labor is worth something also, which I think especially raising daughters is a really important lesson. I think a lot of women are expected to dedicate their labor in various areas around churches, charity, volunteer business, even at work. You know, we're expected to over time without complaining about it because that's just, like, sweet, you know? And I I'm not raising daughters like that.
Kate Northrup:Hi. I'm so excited for you to listen in to this conversation with Nicole Walters. She's the best selling author of Nothing is Missing. She created a real sort of famous moment when she quit her job live in front of, like, I think hundreds of thousands of people on the Internet. And ever since then, she has a top podcast, and she works with entrepreneurs to really tap into their power, their trust.
Kate Northrup:She's incredible with systems. She is on her way to having her first baby from her own pregnancy, but she also has 3 incredible children, that came into her life in a magical way. And in this episode, we talk about motherhood, about teaching your kids, about money, about living guilt and shame free, and so many other things. She is delightful, she is powerful, she is funny. Enjoy this episode with Nicole Walters.
Kate Northrup:Welcome to Plenty. I'm your host Kate Northrup, and together we are going on a journey to help you have an incredible relationship with money, time, and energy, and to have abundance on every possible level. Every week, we're gonna dive in with experts and insights to help you unlock a life of plenty. Let's go fill our cups. Please note that the opinions and perspectives of the guests on the Plenty podcast are not necessarily reflective of the opinions and perspectives of Kate Northrup or anyone who works within the Kate Northrop brand.
Nicole Walters:When I first got pregnant, I don't think a lot of people say it because there is a lot of pressure around moms specific for a lot of reasons, but specifically a lot of the pressure around moms has to do with what we think of being moms Mhmm. And how we should show up as moms, and we're all supposed to just love it, and it's supposed to be the greatest thing ever, and it's supposed to be the best thing, or we're in that, like, it's awful terrible. Every day is a struggle blah blah blah. Like, either camp. You know?
Nicole Walters:And I just when I first got pregnant, I can honestly say I was this is something I hoped and prayed for, and I was so grateful, and this sweet baby is so wanted, and I'm just so happy about it, but I was so worried about, like, losing myself Yeah. Because I think in a way that's a little different from becoming a mom in your mid twenties where you're still learning yourself. I already feel like a fully formed person. Yeah. You know?
Nicole Walters:And so the idea of, like, will I have a career again? Like, will I work again? Like, will I have enough energy because I already have 3 babies? You know, like, what, like, who am I gonna be? What does this mean about this new relationship that I'm just so overjoyed about?
Nicole Walters:Like, I was just so worried about, you know, and my therapist would say you're fixating on the loss, you know, and this is why I pay her the good money. But, you know, but, you know, I I think what I'm excited about is getting to be an example of exactly what was given to me in the early stages of this pregnancy, which is you can be a mom and, you can do it all, you know, not all the time and not always well, you know, but you can do it, you know. And so I think that if there's anything I'm excited about is that this next chapter is hopefully gonna live as an example, a legacy, you know, for for any women who may be wondering themselves, like, you know, can you be 40 with an infant, you know, a new very hot husband, you know, and, you know, and the kids of all these different ranges. Our family's just very complex, and I'm excited to focus on that and share, you know, as much of that journey as is appropriate, the good, the bad, the ugly.
Kate Northrup:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you're definitely I was talking to a girlfriend last night, and she is really in an interesting intersection of comedy, memoir writing, personal development. It she's like, it's cool layers.
Nicole Walters:Yeah.
Kate Northrup:And and and and she was talking about, like, looking for examples for mentorship of, like, oh, well, they did it so I can just follow the path. I was I was talking about when my husband and I got married, we had this Akashic Records reading before we got married.
Nicole Walters:Oh, wow. Oh my gosh.
Kate Northrup:Opened up our soul records and the woman who married us, Deb Kern, was like, okay. So what's really important for you 2 to know is that what you are here to create has not been done before, so you need to be really careful
Nicole Walters:No pressure.
Kate Northrup:For looking outside yourself for examples of how to do it. And I feel like with the family that you have created and are continuing to create, obviously, you said you're getting inspiration and hope from older mothers and whatever, so we can always pull, but, like, weave together our own tapestry that really isn't original.
Nicole Walters:For sure. And I think that we all have an original. Right? Our lived experiences are ours and ours alone, but but, yeah, you know, like, I'll look at moms and I'm like, okay, well, she was able to get through Tuesday, you know, at carpool, we get it. Like for instance, so, it
Kate Northrup:is the hardest part of the day is
Nicole Walters:It's morning. The day is the morning. It's just And the night time. Everything in between is so easy. And one of the things that I think about this experience that has been so amazing is that, like, it's so unifying.
Nicole Walters:It's so it's one of the places where, you know, when I meet other women, there's just an understanding that we have, like, a secret society type code that I just didn't even realize how grateful I am for that, you know. My little one, you know, where I'm doing
Kate Northrup:And she's 13.
Nicole Walters:13. Yeah. Like, so we're now doing this early teen because I did parenting out of order. Right? So I I have a 25 year old.
Nicole Walters:I did high school proms and all that stuff first, but I skipped over infancy because I adopted my 3 girls. So it's like, you know, we're doing certain things the first time, but I've also already been a mom for a decade. So it's a very weird place. Wild. It's super weird.
Nicole Walters:It's super weird. So we did it was our 1st, like, real middle school Halloween where, like, you know, you start seeing clicky things, like, oh, we're all dressing together, and we're trick or treating together, matching and all that. And so I was talk oh, yes. And just the dynamics that go along with it. Brings up a lot of stuff.
Nicole Walters:But you get it. You get it. And it's just interesting because I could literally pluck a mom from anywhere in America, and they're all able to say, like, yeah, you know, you'll find that these 3 girls from the lunch table went trick or treating, and this girl felt left out because she wasn't dressed as a princess and this girl did this thing and it was just as frustrating as it can be because teenagers in general, it's just been really nice to recognize that even in in building a unique family that's made in its own way, we're still so like so many other Yeah. American families, and that's just been really, really special. And so I just again, in you know, I I I'm always writing, you know, and I'm sure the next book is being formulated some way somehow.
Nicole Walters:I'm so grateful for it. You know? And so as I start kind of writing these things out, I'm hoping that the lessons, the stories, the experiences continue to draw people together to say, like, gosh. We're we're really more alike than we are different.
Kate Northrup:Well, in so much permission, I mean, just from I've, you know, I've followed along with what you've been doing for a really long time. And then in reading, nothing is missing, I got so much so many more stories and just like inspiration and and there's you are unique in that, you seem to when you wanna do something that's super off the beaten path, you do it, and I wanna know what you think that is about you. Were you born that way or did that develop over time?
Nicole Walters:I will say that I was born that way for sure, but it is also birthed of a naivete in a lot of ways.
Kate Northrup:How do
Nicole Walters:I feel? How do I feel right? Like that I have not tried to fix. It's kind of like my obsession with cheese, like don't save me. You know what I mean?
Nicole Walters:Like I don't like even when I hear facts, oh, eating too much cheese. Uh-uh. It's fine. Yeah.
Kate Northrup:But you know, I can really find you data to support eating cheese, so I would be happy to offer that There's science to you.
Nicole Walters:There's science I swear. Absolutely. But, no, I've always been like this. You know, it's just kind of, like things like adopting 3 kids at 28. Yeah.
Nicole Walters:You know, if I had known completely, you know, and I'm a god girl. I say that all time, you know, but, like, you know, as a god girl, sometimes I feel like you don't have a glimpse, you know, whatever your belief is. What do you not have a glimpse necessarily into the full picture? Because if you did, you might not do the things you need to do to realize the full picture. So, at 28, of course, I thought, sure.
Nicole Walters:I can take in 3 kids, a 3 year old, 11 year old, and a 14 it'll be fine. I'll be like a big sister. Just kinda help him do some stuff, do activities with a 3 year old, bake cookies. It's fine. If I knew completely what it meant to parent and the fact that there is no version of halfway with children that I mean, depending on who you are, you know, there's no version of halfway, I would have run the other way.
Nicole Walters:You know? And people hear that story, and they're like, oh my gosh. What a person you are, and I was like, I was yes. There I am the the I have the inclination of, like, fix it, you know, like I'm a doer, but I am definitely a human. You know?
Nicole Walters:And, I was 28 and done. You know what I mean? Like, I just really thought I could do it all, and it would be fine. And
Kate Northrup:And it and it was.
Nicole Walters:And it was.
Kate Northrup:But I imagine so much harder than you ever could have possibly imagined.
Nicole Walters:Hard. I've got my 22 year old last the last 2 weeks have been anyone who has multiple children understands this. You're very lucky if they're both okay at the same time. Like, one of them is always having a meltdown or a celebration or something, and, you know, my 13 year old has every bar mitzvah in the world happening right now. It's that season, and she's just busy, and plus navigating middle school and all that.
Nicole Walters:Then my middle one is, 1st serious boyfriend. They but they've been together for 2 years. K. So now it's kind of a, so what are we doing? And it's like, you
Kate Northrup:know And she's 22.
Nicole Walters:And she's 22.
Kate Northrup:That's like a serious age.
Nicole Walters:It is a serious age. Right. We're not 12. We're not 12. Right?
Nicole Walters:And it's a real boyfriend. You know? So like as a mom it's very like what are we doing? The answer is nothing. You know what I mean?
Nicole Walters:Like, everything is fine. Just enjoy your life. Just enjoy your life. Yeah. But also letting her do too much, you know, to, like, navigate that.
Nicole Walters:You know what I mean? It's just 22. And then my 25 year old, you know, she struggled with sobriety. So, you know, she's on a totally different trajectory, you know, and thankfully she's been sober now for a little over a year, but, you know, she's on a different trajectory too. So it's like, I mean, just the last 3 weeks I'm getting phone calls from all of them.
Nicole Walters:I literally am sending my 25 year old groceries yesterday. Just like
Kate Northrup:a lot.
Nicole Walters:It's just a lot and
Kate Northrup:Also pregnant.
Nicole Walters:Also pregnant. Also pregnant. This is the child that's behaving right now, barely.
Kate Northrup:You know, being pregnant is I found tricky and, babies are easier when they're in your womb.
Nicole Walters:Pocket pocket children. I just just come with me everywhere. In the end, it's actually the beginning. Easiest part is just here. And
Kate Northrup:then also the hardest time, and there was a lot of relief once I gave birth with both girls. Mhmm. Even though it became harder physically Sure. It was wild. Like, all the pains I was feeling, the heartburn
Nicole Walters:Mhmm. All the heartburn.
Kate Northrup:I gave birth, and then it was gone.
Nicole Walters:So everyone says that. All the moms say that when I tell you It's a freaking miracle. It's a miracle, and it's what and also the fact that it's a uniform thing that every mom says. It's just, like, again, that closeness that you feel with other women.
Kate Northrup:Oh my god.
Nicole Walters:Like, when I tell you there's a knowingness. Like, when I go places and mom see that I'm pregnant, I'm, like, rubbing my chest, they're just, like, yeah, honey. Yeah. I know. You know, they're, like, Carrie Tums.
Nicole Walters:You know? Like, they all understand, or They
Kate Northrup:just like lived on chewable magnesium.
Nicole Walters:Oh, yes. And I was like, does this count as my calcium? Like, I'm like gonna be like calcium deficient after this.
Kate Northrup:You know, I get cheese.
Nicole Walters:Oh, cheese does help. You're getting it. Cheese does help, but or, like, the other day I, shared on social. I was like, hey. So, every time I go to bed, they, you know, get kicking.
Nicole Walters:You know? And I'm like, oh my gosh. Like so I didn't know that was a thing.
Kate Northrup:He's a dog.
Nicole Walters:Yeah. I didn't know. He just loved to play. He just loved to play and all this. So I'm posting on social saying and this is again the cute naive and it's odd because it's like I'm forties and it's my first go of it, but I already have kids, but I don't know this experience.
Nicole Walters:So I'm sending mess I'm like, hey. What's the solution for when you go to bed to get get them to quiet down so that you can, like, go to sleep? I think I'm doing something wrong. Should I be, like, you know, eating a different snack or laying on is there a pillow I can buy? Every mama is chuckling in the DM's like, oh, honey.
Nicole Walters:Yeah. This is and you're only you're only 6 months in. This is just the beginning. Just wait. They were like, play the game of is that a foot in my rib or is that an elbow?
Nicole Walters:Because that's what you're gonna be doing. I was like, oh, we all know this. We all know this, you know?
Kate Northrup:But you don't it's not like information you would just randomly bring up to women who aren't pregnant Oh. Because you just, you know and then also women aren't gonna have babies. It's just like not Yes.
Nicole Walters:It's just like
Kate Northrup:it just is. Going, are people sharing, like,
Nicole Walters:some terrible birth
Kate Northrup:stories with you?
Nicole Walters:How are
Kate Northrup:you protecting yourself during this time?
Nicole Walters:I appreciate the overshare. Yeah. I appreciate that question. So there are things that I'm learning which, again, being an older mom and this is actually this is the first chat I've ever really had about this because so much of this is new, you know, but, you know, being an older mom, some of the things that I'm really grateful for is I again, a stronger sense of self. Yeah.
Nicole Walters:So it's not like I'm impermeable, you know. I still have my hormonal emotional reactions, like when I found out about, post birth contractions, after labor contractions, I was like, is there an after label epidural? Like, do is there a conversation? Who's wait. It happens twice?
Nicole Walters:Like, why don't they tell you this? Like
Kate Northrup:But it's not by that time, there's so many hormones in your body of joy and bliss that you kind of don't notice.
Nicole Walters:But can you can you imagine no one tells you this?
Kate Northrup:Yeah. There were a lot of things people didn't know that I learned out as I was giving birth.
Nicole Walters:Yeah. And you're just like, oh, and I mean, when I tell you the way I've been calling my doctor about things sometimes and my doctor's like, I'm like, hey, so this thing's happening and, you know, if I wasn't pregnant, this would definitely be death. Like, I'm certain this is not this is a sign of 911, and she's like, oh, no. The diagnosis is pregnancy. So, like, that has been a very interesting experience to hear.
Nicole Walters:There's so much moms just are we just chalk it up. Like, we're like, we got this, and it's just that's it. Deal. Part of the deal. But the thing that I I think I've been the most surprised about, and I'm glad I have the adult fortitude against is a lot of judgments.
Nicole Walters:You know, like, when people I didn't even know breastfeeding was, like, a contentious topic for a lot of people.
Kate Northrup:I had no idea.
Nicole Walters:Controversial topic. I had no idea. People have a lot. A lot of opinions and takes, and I I mean, I had judgment. Oh, so much judgment.
Nicole Walters:I mean, I had, like and if you decide not to breastfeed or cannot breastfeed, and then you're bottle feeding, then it's like the type of bottle is an issue. Yeah. You know? And then all these things. And when I tell you, it is so interesting to me because when I say it, like, unguiltable, like, I am just kind of I'm, like That's so awesome.
Nicole Walters:I'm totally unguiltable. Like, I literally will look at you kind of crazy face, like, wait. So so you're telling me about feeding my kid, like, during a time where I am exhausted recovering, you know, just 40, just 40. Everything hurts, and it's never gonna not hurt now. You know what I mean?
Nicole Walters:Like, I'm going from delivery into perimenopause. I don't wanna hear it. You know what I mean? Like so yeah. So it's it's it's been interesting to see that there's a whole other world and dynamic.
Nicole Walters:Like, with all the good of this unifying sisterhood I'm in, there's this whole other world that goes along with it too. So
Kate Northrup:Yeah. No. I I think that it is a mistake that our culture can make that once you're pregnant, your body somehow becomes, like, public property and open for comment.
Nicole Walters:Once you're a woman, your body becomes public property. It's just that it's a new way to talk about it that, you know, if you don't have children, you may not ever know about it, and I made it all the way to 40 without knowing that, and I'm just, like, bravo women who had kids in their early twenties, early thirties, and have for 15 years had to live with that extra narrative on your head of are you even parenting right? Like, I don't even know I I don't know what that is, and I
Kate Northrup:just is right.
Nicole Walters:What that's what I mean.
Kate Northrup:I mean, even within my best girlfriends who I love deeply and respect, and we have many shared values, but sometimes Totally different. And I just I come back when I feel like I'm not doing a good enough job, I come back to, like, okay, my kids chose me. That's what I believe.
Nicole Walters:Mhmm. Or they were,
Kate Northrup:you know, or God chose me for them. I but anyway, it feels destined. There was like a soul contract. 100%. So I'm like, they were even if I am making a mistake, like, maybe they signed up for that as part of their soul journey.
Nicole Walters:So I
Kate Northrup:mean I mean, that doesn't get us off the hook for doing the best we can.
Nicole Walters:We still have to do our best.
Kate Northrup:But I don't think guilt helps us be better moms.
Nicole Walters:Not at all. Guilt doesn't serve anyone. Shame doesn't serve anyone, and it's one of those things where I know that with my littles, I feel the same way. You know, like there is a full circle moment, you know, about reaching this place at this stage of my life that I know that we are meant to be family, but I also am gonna have a therapy budget and a college budget. Like, I'm not gonna get it all right, and this world isn't gonna help get everything right, and it just is what it is.
Nicole Walters:You know? But, yeah, no. I look at some of my friends, like, we have, for instance, in our house, we have a no sleepover policy and a no trampoline policy. Okay. Very, like, random.
Nicole Walters:Right? There are people who are, like, we are not just random.
Kate Northrup:Those seem embedded with something important. Right.
Nicole Walters:Like, you know, it will just a lot of I don't we have a joke. I'm like, do we go to the hospital? No. Like, it's just like so it's like we're not jumping on trampolines, we're not breaking bones.
Kate Northrup:You know? Have the trampoline in their backyard
Nicole Walters:or sending kids to the hospital. It's like
Kate Northrup:a
Nicole Walters:total thing. It's true. But I also It's a liability issue. And, like, and I worked in insurance. Like, I've seen the claims.
Nicole Walters:Oh, you know. Just know I got it. It's just one of those things. Yeah. But it's also one of those things where I don't judge people.
Nicole Walters:But, trampoline are so much fun. I've been to trampoline parks. Like, I get it. You know? It's just we won't have one.
Nicole Walters:You know? And so, it's just like it's interesting to me though that, for some in this world in this world or for the I'm brand new to me. Like I had no idea. Some people are very passionate about dictating how they feel you should live, you know, around things that do not affect them. And that is like just I think that if I was younger that would have impacted me a lot more, and I'm really grateful because, like, in in my first book, you know, Nothing is Missing, that's what I talk about is just spending so much of my time looking for what was missing because people are very quick to point out you're missing this, you're missing this, you're missing this, and then reaching that point at 36 where I said, okay.
Nicole Walters:Well, if everything's missing, what is what am I really gonna do? And then now being pregnant 5 4 or 5 years after that and saying, oh, well, if nothing's missing, then, girl, you're fine. Like, you're fine. You're fine.
Kate Northrup:Yeah. So And when we can live our lives as though nothing is missing, then we can be really present to the abundance that already is, which knows for what time we miss out on. Yeah. Like, that feeling because and and listen, our survival brain does constantly sort and sift for danger and threat. So we are wired that way as animals to be tracking for what is missing, what is the problem, and and our, you know, our evolution has done that, and we can rewire ourselves 100%.
Kate Northrup:To not do that anymore habitually. It does take a lot of work. So for you, what were some of the key things you did to shift from everything's missing or not everything, but, like, this is missing, this
Nicole Walters:is missing,
Kate Northrup:this is missing, to nothing is missing. Even in an environment that was maybe, you know, difficult For sure. With the your girls, difficult in marriage or a job or whatever because, like, at any given time, no matter who we are, we all have problems.
Nicole Walters:Mhmm. Right?
Kate Northrup:We all have an area that we wanna grow in our lives, but how have you worked on that? I think one of
Nicole Walters:the things that was big for me and kind of unusual was personal development wasn't part of my home Mhmm. Life, you know, and I think that's I think that's really normal. Is that pretty normal? Yeah. I don't know.
Nicole Walters:I in other countries so I have friends, you know, that are have pretty diverse like, in Australia, it's, like, very normal to have some degree of personal development. Yeah. Like to if you tell me if you're taking like a coaching class
Kate Northrup:That's like normal?
Nicole Walters:That's not unusual.
Kate Northrup:I feel like in Amer I don't know.
Nicole Walters:That's what I'm saying. United States is kind of weird.
Kate Northrup:Weird to be in personal development.
Nicole Walters:In that world, and then you realize, oh, there's people whole people who live like this. You know what I mean? So I was struck
Kate Northrup:up in a personal development household, and I always felt like an alien.
Nicole Walters:Right. Right. So But, also, when you do but that's what I mean is I didn't grow up like that. But once I realized, oh, this is a simple just, I guess, kind of like growing up in a wellness household. Right?
Nicole Walters:Like, for a lot of us who grow up and just eat, we don't realize that there are patterns around eating or tools around eating or, you know, education, nutrition, whatever. So in any case, not growing up in a personal development household, as I started embracing, you know, self help is not and also I think there's stigmas around self help for a long time that have evolved. So, I mean, I remember, you know, in the early well, early like, mid to late nineties, self help entering with a common lexicon, like, through movies and television and being more present, but it still had a little bit of a stigma of it being like a woo woo weird thing. Yeah. Or like you're crazy.
Nicole Walters:Or like you're crazy, you know, versus just being, I'm trying to understand myself. Yeah. You know, or I'm trying to, like, elevate and be the best version of myself. And so that that wasn't something I grew up with, you know, partly, I think by privilege. Right?
Nicole Walters:You know, because I had I'm the child of African immigrants, you know, and the we didn't have what felt like the privilege. It felt like an indulgence to worry more about how you felt than what you needed, you know, because we lacked so much. And so the focus was on how can you do things to get an outcome. So that journey to getting to a place where I'm realizing that, you know, it's not so much that I'm complete. Right?
Nicole Walters:There's always work, but that everything I need is already around me, you know, in terms of the nothing is missing. It involves starting to step into that world and just step into that world through regular tools first, like therapy. That's a form of self development. I'd I've been in therapy now for 12, 15 years, you know, regularly, and engaging in education around my mind and my body and my health, for pleasure, which is, I mean, a distinction that I don't think a lot of people make. When you engage in education around yourself for pleasure and not for fixing, it changes everything.
Nicole Walters:And as a mom and as a wife and as a mentor, you know, we spend a lot of our time fixing, and we don't ever say, like, oh, I just wanna learn how to make a a great healthy meal because it'd be fun.
Kate Northrup:Just for fun.
Nicole Walters:For fun. And because it feels good in your body. It feels good, but it's still it's still education. It's still it's it's still affirming, a sense of worth and a value around who you are, and that is, it's good for you. You know?
Nicole Walters:And so, you know, unfortunately, the thing that really drifted me towards doing it for pleasure, not for work was, post divorce. You know? Like, I saw my marriage really starting to, to come to a conclusion, and I set out, you know, to say, look. I'm not even saying I want it to be over. I just need some time to restore myself, and, you know, my therapist asked me, and this is actually not in the book, my therapist asked me, do you have any hobbies?
Nicole Walters:And I was like, I was thinking about getting a job at Starbucks, you know, because I really love making coffee, and, you know, I get to talk to people because I love people. And she's like, that's not a hobby. That's a job, honey. That's a job.
Kate Northrup:An amazing response.
Nicole Walters:Yeah. She was like, that's a job. And I was like I was like, no, but I don't need the money. You're gonna work at Starbucks for my hobby. Right.
Nicole Walters:I was like, I don't need the money, so that makes it a hobby because I can just do it for fun. Right. Right? And she's like, no. No.
Nicole Walters:And that was when I really was like, do I understand the distinction of pleasure versus doing things for validation, worth, intent, purpose, pay, all that, and that was when I was, like, I I gotta work on myself, and Wow. That changed everything.
Kate Northrup:Do you have any hobbies now?
Nicole Walters:Yes. I love to cook. Yeah. That's a big one. Yeah.
Nicole Walters:I mean, I will get up and just try to, like, replicate a dish. Like, I, you know, I'm constantly working on refi so, like, working on things like my knife cuts and Wow. You know, stuff like that. So it's a skill set. And then I I garden, but it's the part that I'm working on with my therapist is but my hobbies all have outcomes.
Nicole Walters:Right? So I'll, like, garden, and I'll say, I'm gardening so I can have an all organic self grown Thanksgiving. Cool. You know, things like that.
Kate Northrup:Yeah. Like, this year or someday?
Nicole Walters:I did that I did that 2 years ago. That's amazing. So, like, that's, like, a bit so I grew my own sweet potatoes. I grew my own, like, everything is set for, like, a month. LA?
Nicole Walters:No. Not in LA. I did that in Georgia. In Georgia. Yeah.
Nicole Walters:I did that in Georgia. But, like, those are the types of things that was it 2 years ago, there was pandemic, but yeah. That's very pandemic. It's a very pandemic. Well, I've always been a gardener, but that was me, like, getting into it, you know, so those types of hobbies, you know, like, I really, I used to make my kids Halloween costumes, like, I like to sew, like, I'm very I'm, like, very homegrown.
Nicole Walters:Oh, I'm very homegrown.
Kate Northrup:Like, I I'm really inspired
Nicole Walters:right now. Homegrown. Like, I was in, like, 4 h club. People don't know. I'm I am your best friend in an apocalypse.
Nicole Walters:Like Wow. Oh, I can noted. I will feed us. I will keep us entertained. I will be the seamstress.
Nicole Walters:I
Kate Northrup:will handle the lives.
Nicole Walters:I gotcha, girl. I will make bread. I will make the lives chopped. I will mend the clothes. I gotcha.
Nicole Walters:We will eat well.
Kate Northrup:What important life skills? I mean, really, one of my daughters, is learning to sew right now, and I'm just, I learned to sew, but, you know, it was the eighties. I'm like,
Nicole Walters:I'm through a different time. I live
Kate Northrup:in a small town in
Nicole Walters:Maine. Literally.
Kate Northrup:There's different types. Yep. And so I'm so thrilled that she's learning this skill set.
Nicole Walters:Like, I
Kate Northrup:think these skills are
Nicole Walters:People are Maine are very industrious, though.
Kate Northrup:We are.
Nicole Walters:Like like We're
Kate Northrup:a hardy folk.
Nicole Walters:A hardy folk. And it's like I one of my good friends is from Freeport
Kate Northrup:and like Really?
Nicole Walters:Oh, yeah. And like one of the things about
Kate Northrup:That's so unusual. I go 10 minutes from there. Oh. Like Freeport and my hometown are the same.
Nicole Walters:Oh, I went up there and I was like nobody actually it's too beautiful. Nobody actually lives up here. They know. This is not a real place. Too beautiful.
Nicole Walters:Yeah. I was like this is not real at all. Like, I remember thinking to myself like, oh, Maine is like a secret. Like, everyone knows what Hawaii looks like. You know?
Nicole Walters:Everyone knows, like, these areas, like, that we're and I was like, Maine is they have a whole system. Don't come here. It's too beautiful. Like
Kate Northrup:Well, the 9 months of terrible winter every year
Nicole Walters:You guys are so hardy. You guys
Kate Northrup:are so hardy. Are you kidding me? It's so brutal, and then summer is so gorgeous.
Nicole Walters:It's gonna raise your memory. Oh, and and when I tell you the the behave is that May Mainers? Is that Yeah. Mainers. Yeah.
Nicole Walters:The behavior of Mainers is so laid back. It's like you guys are all like LA people, but like snow hardy. You know what I mean? So it's like, oh, yeah. You want some clams?
Nicole Walters:I'll be right back. You wanna be doing a little tour? And you're putting on rubbers? Like I'm not putting on it. Like like, we could've Instacarted that.
Nicole Walters:Yeah. And it's like, no. Like, I'm gonna walk out to this giant gorgeous river that is my backyard Yeah. To go get the clams Yeah. To bring them in.
Nicole Walters:And I'm like The fruits of
Kate Northrup:the earth are right there for us.
Nicole Walters:But, like, you guys don't process normally. Like, that's not regular. Or, like, I went during blueberry season Yeah. You know? And Yeah.
Nicole Walters:And it's like, let's go for a walk. Okay. And we walk out, and I'm like, oh, these bushes. Like, what's going on? There's all these bushes.
Nicole Walters:And I'm like, an outdoorsy girl, so
Kate Northrup:I'm like, oh. And like,
Nicole Walters:oh, it's blueberries sitting there. Yeah. And so, you guys, it's not normal. Vader's like it's it's not normal.
Kate Northrup:That's really, really funny.
Nicole Walters:But I also am like it it's just but also the industrious part. So like stuff like, oh, yeah. I just got some pine, and I'm gonna make myself a credenza. A credenza.
Kate Northrup:What? Wait. Have you seen the, the, like, blog and Instagram account, My LL Bean Boyfriend?
Nicole Walters:No. But that's also very appropriate.
Kate Northrup:It's very amazing. So it's like it's like this whole comedic thing about, like, I'm your LL Bean boyfriend, and I will, like, build you a table, and then I will have sex with you on it.
Nicole Walters:It's real, but it's like a real thing. Like, this is, like, how Mainers are. Funny. Like, every Mainer I have ever met in my life has an amazing home that is filled with things that I'm like, where did you get this? Like, vintage shorts, whatever.
Nicole Walters:Like, oh, no. I built that last week. I just it it could probably use another another coat of stain. Have you ever made one before? No.
Nicole Walters:But I just had some soft pine around, so I just I think it wouldn't. Figured it out. It's just this, like and it's not that, like, automatically handy or a great cook. It's just there's this energy of not being daunted by just doing. You know?
Kate Northrup:And Well, I think there's a beauty of the time when we grew up.
Nicole Walters:Mhmm.
Kate Northrup:Are you an 84 baby?
Nicole Walters:I am an 84 baby. So, yes, it's
Kate Northrup:a very different time. So, like, yeah. That, like, without the all the tools and the whatever, like,
Nicole Walters:it's just You had to figure it out.
Kate Northrup:You just figure it out and and and I think it slows us down in a nice way and, like, I live in Miami, but I'm thinking about, like, how can I get my kids to somewhere where it's a little less everything accessible? Right now? Because I think it does like, I I sound like an old lady, but I think it's character building.
Nicole Walters:I think it's character and also brain development. Right? Like, critical thinking and processing and, you know, so, like, having a 13 year old, you know, that's a huge part of it with her. She still doesn't have a phone, still doesn't have socials, still doesn't have the internet.
Kate Northrup:I wanna hear all about this. I am obsessed with this conversation. How have you managed this?
Nicole Walters:So I One bow. Oh, thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you. So it helps, precooked children helps. Right? So because, because they're adopted, they came in and I was like, hey, this is just how we live here.
Nicole Walters:So, you know, it is Yeah.
Kate Northrup:But when you grew it, that's gonna be what you're
Nicole Walters:gonna show to this point too. Absolutely. Well, it'll be nice. I can say, well, this is what your sisters had to do. So that sort of thing.
Kate Northrup:This is how we do it in our house.
Nicole Walters:We do it. So she's the youngest one, but, yeah, I mean, no one in our home got a phone before 16, and their first phone at 16 was basically a brick. It was just communication tool. Absolutely. At the I mean, for my older ones, I think it was the old school Nokia, like, brick.
Nicole Walters:It did nothing. You know? But for our youngest, there are new phones now Yeah. That, don't have Internet access. Like the Gabb phone?
Nicole Walters:The Gabb phone. Okay. Yeah. We use a Gabb phone.
Kate Northrup:So, so that she can be if she's somewhere
Nicole Walters:she can call. Communicate, she can text, she can send photos. For safety. Yeah. But, I mean, there really isn't anything else she needs to be doing on her phone.
Nicole Walters:If there's something fun on social, we can share it with her. Yeah. You can consume it together. Absolutely. But it isn't something that she needs to have regular daily access to.
Nicole Walters:So the fact that it's just like it is with parenting, it's a lot easier to not have to restrict it if you just never introduce it. A 100%.
Kate Northrup:Like, you are just
Nicole Walters:It's just it's just so much easier. Just like It's
Kate Northrup:so nourishing
Nicole Walters:to the Oh, absolutely. Like and it it feels old school, but it's also kind of like she has the rest of her life to do it. So even now, one of the things that I get into with, her stepdad, you know, is that he's we're both extroverts, and our daughter is not. She is not. She is tired of the people.
Nicole Walters:She I mean, she literally she's like, I had 2 bar mitzvah this weekend. Like, mom, I shouldn't even have to go to school. I have seen these people enough. Like that is how she is. So meanwhile, we're here, like, she doesn't have enough friends.
Nicole Walters:She's more social life. What about her friend group? She's here all the time. All she wants to do is read, and I'm and then it's like we remind ourselves, no. Like, let her because later.
Nicole Walters:Right? Like, she's out later. So when it comes to all the tech stuff, we're like, she's a lifetime to have tech ruin her. She just doesn't need it now. And so
Kate Northrup:And it's inspiring that she's 13 and that you're in Los Angeles. So I tell myself a story that that because I'm in a major city Mhmm. That somehow, like, I'm not gonna be able to protect my kids and that they'll be socially ostracized and won't be part of the group No. Even though I'm still like, I've told them they're not getting phones until they're 25. Yeah.
Kate Northrup:I may back
Nicole Walters:Well, no. That I told my mom, so I'll back you up. Gonna get a phone. I'll back you up. They're like, oh, yeah.
Nicole Walters:Oh, yeah. My friend, Nicole, she lives in LA, same rule. Like, I'll be I literally I am the mom. If you ever need to call someone to be like, oh, yeah. I I I could be it can be foolishness.
Nicole Walters:Oh, I don't feed my kids bread. What? Your mom's not weird. Who eats bread? Like, I will always back you up.
Nicole Walters:I'm that friend. Put me on FaceTime. Auntie Nicole doesn't let her kids eat bread either. They don't have bed sheets either. Like, I always be the one to back up whatever the insanity is, but no.
Nicole Walters:It's true. It's like, they don't need it in a major city outside of the basics. Yeah. You know? And then in terms of being ostracized, I mean, what I'm finding now is the education is trickling down.
Nicole Walters:Right? So she's in class and she's hearing about things like, everybody's making fun of someone on Snapchat or they talk about whatever, and she's like, Snapchat or they talk about whatever, and she's like, it actually feels really good to be like, I don't even know about that. Okay. I don't even know about that. I love that
Kate Northrup:she's able to know that. Yeah. That was a strong sense of self.
Nicole Walters:I mean, well, I'm she's also weird. She's, like, very mature. The number one thing her teachers say about her is she's a serious child. Okay. And I was like I was like I don't know.
Nicole Walters:I don't know. It's amazing given her mother. House. Like like this morning she said to me we woke up it's, I know that this people might watch this whenever they watch it, but it's the day after the election day, which is people 50% of America is cheering, 50% is devastated. Right?
Nicole Walters:Strange day. Strange day. Strange day. So she wakes up and she's like, you know, mom, all that matters is that hope and patience prevails. No.
Nicole Walters:What? She's 13. I was like, have you been drinking? Who are you? Hello.
Nicole Walters:Like, how Where did you like it? Where are you from? What is even what is it? Where did you I was like goes did you read that on a fortune cookie or whatever? And she's like no I just feel like we get really caught up in things being one way or another, and you always talk about being hopeful and then waiting, and she was like so if hope and patience prevails we're fine, right?
Nicole Walters:And I was like, uh-huh. And it was one of those moments I was like, oh, you're the adult. You're the adult, you know? So and I think all of that also comes from like she didn't have social media to influence her and it also is such a great reminder as someone who's a full circle personal development person. What is our baseline?
Nicole Walters:Yeah. What is our baseline as people, as humans? Her baseline without any influence from social media, TV, the media, whatever was there's an election happening. There wasn't anything I could do about it. Right?
Nicole Walters:Which technically we all vote, but what can we do to one outside well, one person. So she went to bed and woke up and said the same factors that existed when I before I closed my eyes still exist today. That is where we should be. You know? And and it was just and I think that, you know, again, not having a phone really helps.
Nicole Walters:Like, her her sense of self is not being developed externally, and that is as long as I can protect that bubble for a little bit. You know? And then in terms of skill sets, like, kids find stuff to get into. I have to make sure don't start fires. Like, you know what I mean?
Nicole Walters:Well, she cooks. That's a thing. I have her cooking meals, following recipes, like but that's also, I think, being African too, like, coming from an African household.
Kate Northrup:So great.
Nicole Walters:They're like, you are an adult. You need to grow. Absolutely. It's like an actual skill. So Yeah.
Kate Northrup:Yeah. Yeah. No. I mean, it's so practical. Like, I think that we I was I was messaging with a girlfriend who has kids about the same age, and she was like, you know, we realized that, like, now, you know, because her kids are also 69 minor 69.
Kate Northrup:She's like, they can do everything for themselves. Oh, yeah. Like, for the most part.
Nicole Walters:For sure. You know? And she was like,
Kate Northrup:I realized I was just going to stop doing anything for them Mhmm. That they were capable of doing for themselves. And she said it was it's painful at first Mhmm. But I will just leave the room Yeah. And just empower them to do it themselves.
Kate Northrup:100%. And it's like because when we over help, when we overdo, and I think this is with our teams Mentors, everyone, mentorship, everything. Everything. When we over help, we say, I don't believe in you.
Nicole Walters:Yes. And we also cripple them for believing in themselves. Right. You know? And that's like, we don't want that to happen.
Nicole Walters:That's like defeats the purpose. You know? Yeah. With, our my daughter's been doing her laundry since she was 6, and we use stickers, you know, so she couldn't read. You know?
Nicole Walters:Like, she was working on her reading. So we would have stickers, like, move to the elephant when you need to dry, move it to what you know? And that would be, like, next to normal and all that. So she's like, okay. It has to go to elephant, has to go to star, you know, and that was how she figured it out.
Nicole Walters:And she's been doing the dishes, you know, since she was probably like 7, and it's just as moms, we have a lot going on, you know, and it's not that our kids are like workhorses per se, you know, but they do need to be able to function, and I think and I'll say this transparently, and it makes you a little teary, probably hormones, you know, but when because I had precooked babies that also we didn't adopt them until about 5 years in, you know, so I didn't know what would happen necessarily. Like, we've always had a great relationship with their mother, you know, which I talk about for the first time in this book, their bio mom, but I didn't know what could happen. You know? I didn't know if there'd be a day where she would just pull up and say, I want my kids or, you know, I don't know. Even though we had paperwork and guardianship, you just never know, and, so I was I I did have to parent with the thought of if they were to it makes me so sad.
Nicole Walters:If they were to not be with me, they have to be okay, You know, which is very different, I think, from what I feel with this one, you know, and I think what a lot of moms feel is, you know, some sometimes we're like, someone please come take these kids. You know what I mean? Like, any date I don't have to be the one. You know, like, any come get them. Who's the person who's coming to get them together?
Nicole Walters:It could be anyone. Anyone. And please, just just for sound, come get them, you know. It's a different energy, you know. It's a different energy, you know, like, but now, you know, that was not how I thought.
Nicole Walters:I felt very like I have only so much time to download as much as I can to keep them ready. You know? So, I mean, I was teaching her how to make a sandwich because when I got her, she was £20 underweight. You know? I was teaching her how to do laundry because I knew that her parents may not be sober enough to be able to help her with so it was like I'm putting these things into her that ended up being life skills, you know, but with an urgency that I think not every parent may feel, you know, because I was like, I have to keep her alive.
Nicole Walters:You know? And, like, I have to help her feel like she can keep herself alive. And so yeah. I mean But
Kate Northrup:I think we could all really learn from that.
Nicole Walters:Yeah. Like Yeah.
Kate Northrup:You know, in a completely different lens for many families, but, like, how can I set my children up To win? To win Yeah. And to really and so I'm curious how you do that with your kids with money. Right. I get this question a lot from people, like, how are you teaching your kids about money?
Kate Northrup:And
Nicole Walters:and, you
Kate Northrup:know, we're in the early days there. You're further along. So yeah.
Nicole Walters:And I've had all the ranges. Right?
Kate Northrup:Lay it out.
Nicole Walters:Like Yeah. I mean, the biggest thing is doing it? What are you telling? Very clear it's my money, not yours. Uh-huh.
Nicole Walters:So Yeah. Right there, it's like you guys have no money. You're starting at no money. That's the baseline. Yep.
Nicole Walters:You've got nothing. So since we're all on the same page there, what are you gonna do to get some? Okay. You know? So it's like, you know, mom is here to, you know, provide your comfort items, you know, to some extent.
Nicole Walters:You're definitely your necessaries, but what you get is the version of what you get that you have to maintain.
Kate Northrup:Yeah.
Nicole Walters:So it helps that I didn't grow up wealthy, you know, so I still live that way. Like, my kids have no idea how much money I actually have. Like, they have a concept of it because we do some we travel well. We do things like that. But for the most part, I'm like, oh, we're thrifting.
Nicole Walters:We're going to Target. We mom still cooks. You know? Like, it's the thing that I think we do that feels the fanciest thing is I have cleaners, you know, who come in and do the deep clean, but we do our daily cleans. Yes.
Nicole Walters:You know? So I think that that's a huge part of it is allowing your kids to still recognize if you think it's your money and not their money. Like, my cleaners don't do their rooms because the cleaners are here to help mom, you know, make sure that her life is easier.
Kate Northrup:Created a business
Nicole Walters:I created a business. Allows
Kate Northrup:for that.
Nicole Walters:And this is something I am delegating. You know? And I explain all of that to them. Right. You know?
Nicole Walters:So, like, you guys, if you have a business, I'll have the cleaners clean your room. You know what I mean? Like, that makes sense, but if you're not doing that, then Yeah. There's no reason you have capacity. You know?
Nicole Walters:So do something with your capacity. And then when it comes to on how to use money, like, I absolutely talk to my kids about margins. I'm not fun. You know, charge the right price.
Kate Northrup:No. It's the best.
Nicole Walters:It's the best. I know. I'm, like, I'm so unfun. We talk about not doing things for free.
Kate Northrup:Yes.
Nicole Walters:You know, that their labor is worth something also, which I think especially raising daughters is a really important lesson. I think a lot of women are expected to dedicate their labor in various areas around churches, charity, volunteer business, even at work. You know? We're expected to over time without complaining about it because that's just, like, sweet. You know?
Nicole Walters:And I I'm not raising daughters like that. You deserve to get paid for your work, your knowledge, and your efforts, so that that way you can put your efforts where you want them to be put. So that's a huge part of it. And my kids are pretty I mean, unfortunately, because we all come from poverty, we we have our various traumas, so it's really important to also let them know, like, there's a phrase you say in our house a lot, this is what the money is for. So whenever we run into something that triggers our trauma but is a necessary expense, we always say, oh, mom, right, this is what the money is for.
Nicole Walters:Yes. Or I'll remind them this is what the money is for. So my middle daughter and I talk about it in the book a little bit was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer, and, we knew that it would be complex, but we also and we knew we had the means to afford whatever was required, but it doesn't shake that you know, we paid out of pocket almost a quarter $1,000,000, you know, between her chemo, her meds, comfort items, you know, travel, all that. And every single day, it was this is what the money is for. This is what the money is for.
Nicole Walters:I'll I'll never forget when I was standing in the hospital and I got a call from the pharmacy that they were like, oh, yeah. We're here to collect payment for it was a injection that she has to get to, like, help her white blood cell, something like that with her bones during part of chemo. It wasn't chemo itself. It's, like, the stuff around chemo. You know?
Nicole Walters:People don't
Kate Northrup:know until you're
Nicole Walters:in it. People have don't know until you're in it. It's just there's so much, and but, also, as a mom, I don't care. Take take my blood. Take my shoe.
Nicole Walters:Take my I don't care. Like, sell my, like, whatever. You know? So it's not a question. It's just sort of okay.
Nicole Walters:You know? But I get this call, and they're like, yeah. It'll be 8,000 something dollars, you know, and this is for, like, a week of the injections. And I was, like, $8,000, you know, and I didn't quite understand. I was like, oh, I was like, okay.
Nicole Walters:But what is it after the deductible or what is it after, like, whatever you know, what is the actual number? And they were like, that is what it is after. And I was like, oh, so that must mean each injection was probably, like, 20,000, which is wild conversation for another day. Yeah. But I will never forget the look.
Nicole Walters:My daughter looked at me because she heard the number and literally, I just this is what it's for. This is what it's for. You know? And, of course, I had the privilege of being able to afford that without concern, but I also had that privilege because I earned it because of other choices that I've made prior to it. So, that's a really empowering statement I tell my children all the time.
Nicole Walters:Money is for our family, our health. It's for, there is joy as an element of it. You know? But it really is to take care. You know?
Nicole Walters:It's to take care. It's to take care. So don't worry about that. Matters. For when it matters, and don't feel bad about that.
Kate Northrup:So in terms of that, what I see a lot is folks, not understanding what the money is for.
Nicole Walters:Right. True.
Kate Northrup:And so then coming into earning whatever happens where now they have money they didn't before, and they then it's gone.
Nicole Walters:Yes. Normal. Very normal. Yeah. Very normal.
Nicole Walters:It's just like or how much to use for watch. We have
Kate Northrup:no idea how much things cost, and then it's really, like, it's really easy to blow through what feels like a lot of money. For sure. And, you know, we see it all the time, you know, with celebrities, and it's just like it's a common story. Yep. So what are you passing along in terms of, like, stewardship and explaining, like, okay.
Kate Northrup:Mhmm. You make a $100 and then what? Because, like, a $100 is not a $100.
Nicole Walters:Absolutely. Yeah. So one of the biggest things that I tell my kids is it's not really your money until it's in your bank account. Right? So I think a lot of, that behavior come from pre spending.
Nicole Walters:So people walk around with imaginary shopping lists in their head. So the minute the money comes, it's like it's already spent. Yeah. You know? And so I always tell my kids, like, you don't even really have this money yet.
Nicole Walters:You know? So live your life based on what you do have. And if what you do have is $20, then, yay, what a blessing that I got extra money, but this is what this is. This is what I have right now. Another thing is it's free to find out.
Nicole Walters:That's a very common thing I always tell my kids is it is free to ask questions. It is free to talk to experts. It's free to find out. That is the benefit. We may not do free, but information is readily available.
Nicole Walters:So ask the question because the worst that someone will say is no or they'll tell you how much it costs to get the answer and you can figure you can budget that part of it. So, growing up poor, I didn't have access to a lot of rooms where money conversations were happening because that just wasn't part of my existence. But when I realized through personal development, growth, and all that that I can ask a billionaire, wait, so how much did you pay for that Rolex? Yeah. And they could easily say, I'm not telling you.
Nicole Walters:Right. Totally fine, or they could say, I paid this much, and then I can say, why? I will keep asking questions until you tell me to go away. It's free for me to find out, and most people will share, you know, and they'll tell you why. And when you understand the rationale, there's no greater gift than not assuming if someone's gonna tell you exactly what, and that has really helped me with financial education.
Nicole Walters:There are professionals and experts that will help you with everything, and as long as you're willing to engage. Like, so the guilt that I think a lot of us feel around, not knowing, like, I'm supposed to know that so much people and so many feel ashamed around money. Like, they'll blow their money and they'll feel so bad. Like, you didn't know, girl. You didn't know.
Kate Northrup:No one told you. Your parents
Nicole Walters:didn't know school. Didn't tell you.
Kate Northrup:We have terrible models.
Nicole Walters:You didn't even know who to ask. Yeah. You know what I mean? Well And
Kate Northrup:then we're shamed for even asking. So it's this loop.
Nicole Walters:Loop. It's terrible. But it's like, no. Like, you can ask. Like, you can ask, and if someone has an issue with it, that's not your problem, girl.
Nicole Walters:Like, go to the next person. Someone will tell you. You know? I'm like, I'm the worst. I'm like, don't let me into the fancy boardroom because I'm telling all my friends.
Nicole Walters:I'm like, this is what they're talking about, and here's how they made that money. No. It's really important.
Kate Northrup:You know, one of the biggest gifts I got early days was a few more successful entrepreneurial friends. They were, like, several years ahead of me who were just really transparent
Nicole Walters:about numbers. Yes. Yes.
Kate Northrup:And, like and I was, like, oh, because I didn't know.
Nicole Walters:Well, we've also the 2 of us have been in this space for a while Yes, we have. Through various storms. Right? And I think that's something that I think a lot of people are starting to appreciate now. They're like, who's still here?
Nicole Walters:Because there I remember the, like, you know, the gold rush, wild wild west.com era of Internet entrepreneurship, you know, but a lot of people don't realize that, like, you know, the people who are still here have been through recessions, inflations, pandemics, you know, and a lot of that has to do with our stewardship, you know, of what we have and our understanding around what's appropriate, you know, and we are the people to ask, you know, because we'll tell you that we're likely transparency is the only reason we're still here.
Kate Northrup:I always tell people. I actually had a friend last night. She's a new friend, and we just, like, talked all sorts of numbers. She's earlier in her business, and I was, like, listen, I've been at this since 2009.
Nicole Walters:That's right. Same hero.
Kate Northrup:Let's just I'm gonna talk to you about margins. Yes. I'm gonna talk to you about, you know, you should take your profit off the top. That's right. Here's what it looks like.
Nicole Walters:Here's what it looks like. And I'm certainly not This part's not. Here's what you're making. Here's what you're not. Here's what you can expect.
Nicole Walters:Here's what it looks like. And people who talk like that are the ones who weather the storm. It's the ones who are the, like, you know, laying out on a Lamborghini in Vegas saying I have a bajillion dollars and it just comes in. Like, I've heard phrases like ATM money, you know, and I'm like, this is not real life. Like, I that is red flag number 1 that this is gonna be sure lived.
Nicole Walters:You know? And I'm like, no. I wanna hear about how, you know, you manage to own your home Yeah. But you still shop at Target, you know, and you have cleaners that come twice a month, you know, but on the day to day, it's still you. You know, like, you send out your laundry, but you put it away yourself.
Nicole Walters:You know what I mean? Like, the balance, like, you know, and you're you may have a nanny who helps during but it's only during these hours so you can get work done. Like and it's not like that's the right formula, but you're telling me that there's a an intentional balance. Well, and we do have to
Kate Northrup:create it in alignment with our values.
Nicole Walters:With our
Kate Northrup:values. Which is exactly what you are sharing that you're passing along to your kids, which is exactly you know, our money is meant to reflect our values. Absolutely. And that I think is the biggest piece of missing information, and everyone's values gonna be different. Totally different.
Kate Northrup:Right?
Nicole Walters:But it's intentionality. It's intentionality. You know, it's not just, seeking what's missing. It's not just doing what the Internet says. You know?
Kate Northrup:The thing is, like, the illusion Mhmm. That making more money is going to fill some kind of soul hole.
Nicole Walters:It doesn't.
Kate Northrup:Now, of course, after listen. If you're food insecure, if you are housing insecure, making more money for sure makes a
Nicole Walters:huge difference. Different holes. I will I'll be the first one to say I've been poor and I've been rich. Rich is better. Rich feels so good.
Nicole Walters:Like, I'd prefer money is great. Like, I absolutely love it, would love to always have it, and it's just the greatest. Like, because it gives me more options, you know, and it gives me choices and flexibility and ease around certain not having to worry about certain things, but it doesn't absolve me from having to be responsible. It doesn't absolve me from having to be intentional. It doesn't absolve me from having to have clarity around my values.
Kate Northrup:Well, and do you think that with the increase in income and stewardship
Nicole Walters:Mhmm.
Kate Northrup:You actually have to increase the amount you're
Nicole Walters:doing those things. I want I have I have to be clear about that because when you have a certain amount, you know, the the more money, more problems. Right? Like, the problems aren't necessarily external. A lot of times people hear that and they think, oh, yeah.
Nicole Walters:You have more people clamoring for you. It's harder to make friends. Those can exist, but the problems are also deeply internal. You know? There were times where I was like, I don't feel great.
Nicole Walters:I don't think I've ever said this out loud, but, like, you know, prior to my this is all second book type stuff, but, you know, coming out and looking back in hindsight, you know, I'm very aware that there were times where I would I would sit at home and say I could go anywhere and I could buy anything, and I am miserable. What does this mean? And being very confused because growing up, I was always told that, like, the happy people lived somewhere else where joy existed and money was that barrier, and, you know, because we just so deeply didn't have. You know? And so I was like, oh, well, if I had all the food and all this stuff and limitless options, I would have joy, you know, because what couldn't I do?
Nicole Walters:I mean, I often would go places and be the the wealthiest person in the room. You know? I would go I could walk on rodeo, buy whatever I wanted. You know? Like, I it's and it's just to be in that place and realize you're still so deeply unhappy, and not just unhappy, I was unhealthy, like, physically too, and I was like, oh, I can't buy these things.
Nicole Walters:You know? Like
Kate Northrup:Right. You can't buy joy.
Nicole Walters:You can't buy health. You can. Well you can buy you can buy health. Right? But, you know, I know tons of people who have tools for health, and, like, I know people who own hyperbaric chambers.
Nicole Walters:They just don't get in it. I've owned a Peloton. It was a hanger. You know what I mean? Like And, also, if we're,
Kate Northrup:like, deeply unhappy, that takes a toll.
Nicole Walters:It takes a toll. It's a physical toll. So it's just one of those things where I just I realized, oh, wow. Like, I how am I living? Like, what actually matters to me?
Nicole Walters:You know? And right now, I have less in a lot of ways, you know. Financially, I'm still doing well, which I'm grateful for, and I need to because these girls are, like, kids are just I mean, they really pricey. The math, it doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense.
Nicole Walters:I know. But you just I don't know. They find new
Kate Northrup:things somehow. It works out.
Nicole Walters:I mean, like, like, my daughter wants to play tennis. I was like, it's an individual sport. Pick something where we share the tools. I love that.
Kate Northrup:That. Soccer. Also, tennis comes with the outfits and
Nicole Walters:the girls. Oh, cute. And the kids and clubs and coaches. Like, we don't have to do this. You know?
Nicole Walters:Like, do we wanna be horseback riding.
Kate Northrup:At least because I'm like, girls,
Nicole Walters:that is Out of the question and never happening. You will never have a horse on my dime. Not. It's not a thing. Family.
Nicole Walters:It will never happen, not on my dime. Absolutely not. I was like, you're gonna sell a lot of lemonade. You know? But but all that being said, like, you know, it's really nice to still be able to have, like, the means, and I've worked hard and I continue to work hard to do that, but I'm not defined by it.
Nicole Walters:You know? It's not a, oh, I could go anywhere and do anything and feel good. You know? It's not, my value is in how I can provide. You know?
Nicole Walters:It's not, oh my gosh. My my partner is pleased because I've retired them or I can take care of it's none of that. It is simply, are we good on the couch? If we I mean, regularly, I'm like, if I had nothing, it would still be so good. I know.
Kate Northrup:Or if
Nicole Walters:I look back on my life, I'm like, if this was the end and this was the end of the ride, man, what a ride. Like, it's my 40th birthday today, and I look at it. Today? Yes. Today.
Kate Northrup:I know today is your birthday. I didn't realize today was your 40.
Nicole Walters:40. Yeah. I turned 40 today.
Kate Northrup:That makes sense given
Nicole Walters:Yes.
Kate Northrup:The year you were born.
Nicole Walters:Yes. Yes. Yes. I turned 40 today, and so
Kate Northrup:Two decades starting
Nicole Walters:right now. What time were you born?
Kate Northrup:Do you know?
Nicole Walters:I have no idea. I have no idea. I will say, though, like, I I have no idea, but I will say that turning 40, I feel like I've already been, if people ask me, like, when I was 38, I would have 40. You know, like, I've always been a rounder upper, like, it's fine. Okay.
Nicole Walters:30. Yeah. It's just, like, whatever. So turning 40, I think one of the things that's really interesting is I really have I'm in a reflective state, which is so different from where my brain was just years prior, and I look back and I'm just like, it's really been a good ride. Like, I mean, if anyone were to especially now that my book came out, like, I've left what I think my kids could use at least to get to where I am, and I'm like, you know, not and that's not a challenge, or don't take me out.
Nicole Walters:I'm good. I got stuff to do.
Kate Northrup:You know
Nicole Walters:what I mean? No. You're just getting started for sure. To do. You know?
Nicole Walters:But if I were to look at my life now, I don't think anyone would ever say that girl didn't do it all or try or, you know, try to be meaningful, and none of that has to do with money, and that is like it's really special. Also, when I was going through my divorce, one of the things that I said to my girls because I was really worried because I promised them that I would never leave, and I also promised them they'd have a good life, and and there there's so much of my driving factor around making sure I can provide, and, you know, these are girls who'd been going on private jets and, you know, going to villas, and I mean I really was like you guys are gonna get everything that you deserve. You know? And I looked at them and I said, if I get divorced, you know, I don't know if we're gonna be in a 1 bedroom apartment Yep. Sharing a couch, like, in extreme because I know who I am, but I just wanted a context for them.
Nicole Walters:And I was like, and would you guys be okay? You know? Would you guys be okay if we didn't have all of this, you know, the big house and the cars and all that? And all my girls looked at me, and then my middle one said, would you still be there? And that was when I was like, oh, none of this ever mattered.
Nicole Walters:Like, they don't care if we're in a box. Oh. You know? Would you still be there? And I was like, oh, I'm never leaving.
Nicole Walters:So if I'm never leaving, then, you know, it's fine. And that you know, I have everything. Nothing's missing.
Kate Northrup:Mhmm. So beautiful. Yeah. Okay. So last question.
Kate Northrup:Mhmm. Here on your 40th birthday
Nicole Walters:Yeah.
Kate Northrup:Kicking into a new decade, you know, some weeks away from giving birth to your 4th. Bananas. What is the message that's on your heart that you would wanna tell this new life as you head into a new decade?
Nicole Walters:Oh my gosh. I was saying this yesterday to my husband that, so much of my twenties thirties felt like it was about doing what was right based on what I thought other people wanted or what I thought I should do based on the world. And this decade for me is about doing what's right because I just know it's what's right. And, it may not be easy. It may still be hard, but I just wanna do what's right.
Nicole Walters:You know? And, you know, yesterday, my my absentee ballot didn't show for for the election, and, I was supposed to be voting in, Georgia. You know? And so, at the last minute, I got on a plane and flew 3000 miles, 6 months pregnant, 3rd trimester, to go vote. Wow.
Nicole Walters:And, you know, and it took 8 minutes, and then I turned around and I came back, by bedtime for my little one. And it was one of those things where I didn't know if it would make a difference. You know? I didn't know, I didn't know what the outcome would be. You know?
Nicole Walters:I but I knew it was right. I also knew it would be hard, but that's what I want my forties to be. I want it to be a lot of me being unguiltable about doing what is hard because I know it's right. And, that's very different for the past, but I think it'll mean everything for the future.
Kate Northrup:So good. Thank you for being here. This is just absolutely delightful. Yeah. You are.
Nicole Walters:We could chat forever. You are. Yes. Hang up.
Kate Northrup:Okay. So, obviously, everyone needs to get theirselves a copy of Nothing is Missing. I read it right when it came out.
Nicole Walters:Thank
Kate Northrup:you. And not only are you a wonderful writer, there are really important lessons in this book. It's also funny. You're a great storyteller. It's just it's so it's just wonderful.
Kate Northrup:So get yourself a copy of Nothing is Missing, A Memoir of Living Boldly, and then where else would you like people to come find you?
Nicole Walters:Oh, my goodness. I'm all over the Internet. Nicole Walters, like, and I don't she's fun. I don't even have admins. Just like just say hey.
Nicole Walters:It'll be me.
Kate Northrup:I love that. How good. Thank you. Thank you. I'm getting at least one DM a week that says, when do the doors open for relax money again?
Kate Northrup:I'm ready. Now Now relax money is our signature neuroscience backed methodology to help you get financially healthier, and we only open the doors one time a year for our live cohort. However, we are growing the wait list early. So when you get on the wait list, there are special bonuses, goodies, surprises, freebies, and you can get on there over at relax money.comforward/
Nicole Walters:plenty.