Incentive Travel in a World of Uncertainty

In this episode, we explore the evolving landscape of incentive travel with Lisa Grimaldi, editor at Northstar Meetings Group, and returning guest Ashley Martinez. Together, they unpack the impact of global uncertainty on rewards travel, sharing new research, trends, and firsthand experiences from both group and individual perspectives. From shifting risk management strategies to increased demand for travel insurance and the growing emphasis on flexibility, this conversation offers practical insights for planners and travelers alike. Tune in for expert commentary and actionable tips on navigating travel challenges while continuing to create memorable, rewarding journeys.

Chapters
(00:00) Understanding Incentive Travel and Current Research
(02:00) Rising Global Uncertainty and Risk Concerns
(05:00) Industry Response and Focus on Risk Management
(07:00) Increased Demand for Travel Insurance and Protection
(09:00) Changing Program Design and Regionalization
(12:00) Budget Adjustments and Shifting Participant Preferences
(19:00) Communication, Flexibility, and Future Outlook

Connect with Switchfly
Website: https://www.switchfly.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/switchfly/
X: https://twitter.com/switchfly
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@SwitchflyOfficial

Creators and Guests

Guest

Ashley Martinez

What is Travel Buddy with Switchfly?

See more at Switchfly.com

Welcome to Travel Buddy,
presented by Switchfly.

In this podcast, we talk about all
things travel, rewards, and loyalty.

Let's get to it.

Brandon Giella: back to another episode
of Travel Buddy, presented by Switchfly.

We have special guest today,
Lisa Grimaldi, here to talk

to us about incentive travel
in a world of uncertainty.

why are you here?

Who are you?

What's going on?

lisa: Nice to be here.

Thanks, Brendan.

I am an editor f- at
North Star Meetings Group.

I am editor of "Incentive," which
is a magazine/brand, which focuses

specifically on incentive, rewards travel.

If people aren't familiar with it,
it's the rewards, like a trip you could

win, for achieving a goal or, you know,
meeting a certain, company criteria.

There's a lot of different reasons
people get to go on these trips,

but it's, it's essentially a reward

Brandon Giella: Awesome.

And you have done some fantastic research,
through some surveys and presentations

recently that we will get into that is
driving the content of this episode.

But first, we also have back
on the show Ashley Martinez.

Ashley, thank you for joining.

Tell us about your, your
side of the story here

Ashley Martinez: Thanks, Brandon.

So happy to be here again, and I'm
looking forward to this conversation

from my perspective on individual and
leisure travels, the parallels that

we're seeing on the group side of things.

So really excited to talk to
Lisa about what she's seeing

and all the latest travel trends

Brandon Giella: Thanks, guys.

All right.

So let's jump into what
this research is telling us.

So Lisa, you gave a presentation
recently after, running a survey

amongst your folks, and there was a big
headline that I'd like to unpack here.

So tell us about what did you find?

What, what is your, your take on incentive
travel in a world of uncertainty?

lisa: Well, I'll give a little background.

We do a survey twice a year, and it's
called the North Star Cvent Incentive

Survey, and it's a pulse survey.

And basically, we talk to a bunch of
planners, it's all done online, and

get their take on what's happening
in the industry and their programs.

And we compare, from spring
to fall, year to year.

There's a lot of different, ways
that we dice it up, dice up…

It's our fifth year of doing it, so
we have a lot to, to really compare.

But the big takeaway, both this spring
and the previous spring, which I didn't

see too much difference, is that global
risk and concern over geopolitics

and how that's affecting programs and
where people can go, where planners

are choosing, destinations, etc.

Brandon Giella: Okay.

I wanna get into some of the, the
risks that you have identified.

So there's the political risk, economic
risk, social risks, and even budgets,

that budgets now are kind of up in the
air, and it's changing the way that

people are designing their programs
and thinking about their trips.

And so, so what was the big finding that
you, that you are thinking about here?

Was there, like, a big
number that stood out to you?

lisa: I think it was close to 70%
of people were concerned about

what's going on in the world.

and again, we're not super specific.

We do ask questions that are
open-ended, and we allow people to

write in specifics, in certain areas.

But yeah, in general, that was the
number one concern, which is really

one of the first times we've seen that.

It, it went ahead of m- of cost,
which cost is always a big concern.

You know, let's not fool
ourselves, but th- that is.

But yeah, there's…

And just the s- uncertainty right now.

There's tariffs, there's,
you know, political concerns.

There's concerns of people coming
into the country, people going out.

you know, what, what's safe,
because that's sort of a move…

I hate to use the word target,
but it's a moving target

Brandon Giella: Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, it's, it's on a
lot of different fronts.

It's not here, you know, obviously just
in the US, it's in Europe, Africa, Asia.

It's, it's kind of an, a global
risk landscape, if you will.

But there's also a lot of different like
vectors, like I said, like there's social

and political and economics and all that.

are there some ways that you're
thinking about maybe categorizing

the ways that, folks might be kind of
feeling in the, the current climate

of when they're designing their
programs or thinking about these trips?

Like how do you guys,

lisa: We do ask sentiment.

Brandon Giella: Yeah.

lisa: do, we do ask sentiment.

And sentiment was lower in the
spring than it was in the fall,

when optimism was a little higher.

And it, it's a general question, you
know, like, "What's your optimism about

the industry or incentive travel?"

and we're not the only
ones that, that ask that.

there's a big, survey that the
industry does between the…

It's called the In-
Incentive Travel Index.

That's also done by-- It's much
larger than ours, but it's done by,

SITE and the-- which is the Society
for Incentive Travel Excellence and

the Incentive Research Foundation,
the two biggest groups, really

that represent our industry.

And their finding was very similar

Brandon Giella: You're, you-- Before
we started recording, you mentioned

there's a new certificate that's come
out to kind of address this topic

because it is such a, a pressing
need for a lot of folks right now.

Can you tell us a little bit about that?

lisa: Yeah, sure.

the Society for Incentive Travel
Excele- Excellence, which I will

hereforward refer to as SITE 'cause
it's a mouthful, they have just launched

a couple of certificates, for their
members to get specialized in, and

one of them was risk management, which
is, you know, as we're discussing now,

it's always been an issue, always.

But I think it, it, the world is just
changing fast, and I think it was,

there was definitely a renewed interest.

I wouldn't say specifically for this
reason that SITE came up with this, but

in general in the meetings industry, I
noticed after, what happened at, at the,

Correspondents' Dinner in Washington, DC.

there was…

I don't know if, if it's obvious
to people what that was, but that

was when, the whole admin presi-
president and the administration was

at this dinner, and a gunman got in.

So that really sort of shook up
the meetings industry in general.

I think the fact that the, the SITE
is offering this certificate is, like

I said, not tied to that, but just in
general, there's a lot of r- renewed

interest in risk management and security,
making sure, you know, they're picking

the right destinations, ke- picking
places where they can keep their people

safe, and also having a security plan

Brandon Giella: That's a lot.

That's a lot when you're just
trying to travel somewhere.

Ashley, I want, I wanna dive into
that a little bit more about how folks

are, you know, kinda changing the,
the way that they're putting these

packages together and things like that.

But Ashley, on the individual side of,
travel, incentive travel, are you seeing

anything that is related to some of this
risk or anything to, to weigh in on here?

Ashley Martinez: Yeah, Brandon,
we're definitely seeing an uptick in

insurance, In travelers adding travel
protection to their trips to give

them added, you know, added peace
of mind, a sense of flexibility.

Typically, about 50% of bookings will
have travel insurance added to it, and

that's why through Switchfly we made it
such a, real initiative to add flexibility

through travel protection through
our, through our provider, Battleface.

As people really want in, especially
with a large investment like travel, to

be able to feel protected in the case
of emergency, if I need to change, you

know, I have those, insurances in place.

And I think that's specific to the US.

If you think about in the EU and some
of these other markets, just because of

natural or, government regulations, they
already have some travel protections

in place, whereas the US, we, don't
have, have as strict regulation.

So adding travel insurance is something
that I always, through my own travel

a- advisory, always recommend.

But we're definitely seeing people wanting
that type of protection and peace of mind.

Brandon Giella: Interesting, interesting.

Yeah, just trying to find any way to some
more certainty or more calm, more peace as

you're trying to travel around the world.

Ashley Martinez: Absolutely

Brandon Giella: Okay.

Lisa, I wanna get more from you
on how, folks are, how these

programs might be adapting.

You know, you mentioned, you
know, thinking about security

details, things like that.

But, is there a way that you're seeing,
you know, in the face of some of these

risks, some of the uncertainty that folks
might be facing, how they're, you know,

planning different programs or different
lengths of programs or different sizes?

You mentioned budgets earlier,
that that's, that's changing

the way that people are thinking
about their, their trips.

But, yeah, what's, what is, like,
the, of, implications of all

this coming down in, in reality?

lisa: Yeah, good question, Brandon.

I would say that one of the things,
is for multi-co- countries that

are international, what they're
doing, it-- we're seeing a lot of

this, is breaking up, the groups.

Like, they used to probably
bring everybody all together,

try to make it all one trip.

There's less of that.

It's much more regional now.

Like, say, the Europeans stay in
Europe, the North Americans stay in

North America, Latin Americans stay
in Latin America, Asians stay in Asia.

You know, there's a lot, you know,
there's certainly plenty of incentive

destinations, like, within everybody's
region, but they're, they are doing that.

it's just, I think it's just
less c- stressful for everybody.

And, you know, also there's flight…

We, we're not even talking about
flight issues . I mean, there's, there

were a lot of flight, cancellations.

There's, the…

In Europe, there was the shortage
of, jet fuel that happened, for--

and might still be happening with
what's going on, with the Iran war.

so there's so many different
factors to consider.

Also, there were visa issues.

people were, are concerned coming
into the US, say, bringing them here.

I actually had somebody write in that
they had, they, they would not hold

their event in the US because, and this
was a North American-based, incentive

planner, because they were concerned.

They had people from outside who were
very concerned about going through customs

here, and it was a very real concern.

h-hey, for North Americans getting
into Europe, it's getting harder.

I mean, there's the whole Schengen,
issue, and there's new visas there.

It's, it's, it's becoming a little…

It's not as easy and fluid as it once was.

Brandon Giella: Seems like
a, I'm sad about this.

You know, I used to
love to travel so much.

I would think about going
to different places.

You know, we've talked so much on this
ep- on this podcast about traveling

all over the world, and now to think
that this could be a lot harder,

more complicated, especially when
I'm thinking about my kids coming up

and traveling and seeing the world.

You know, it's just harder for them.

It's just, it's sad

lisa: I think honestly, everybody
loves to travel, and these people

are getting rewards, and it's
gotta be someplace special.

And, you know, like we said before,
what, what's safe is, is always

changing, so I don't think it's forever.

These-- It's just a little harder
with, you know, these different

visas and regulations and
geopolitics, but that too can change.

Brandon Giella: Mm.

That's right.

That's right.

tell me, tell me a little bit more about,
some of the research that you conducted,

some other stats that stood out or, or
different, you know, elements of the

research or the survey or any of the
presentations that you've been giving

that, that you think listeners should know

lisa: Budgets, we'll get back to
that because, of course, that's,

again, always a big thing.

budgets are also affecting
the size of groups.

They're getting smaller.

the length might be shortened,
maybe like four night, three, three

nights, four days, rather than the
standard five days, four nights.

onsite gifting is one of the first
things they say that they're cut, they

cut budgets on when it gets a little
tight, which is interesting 'cause

gifting is a big part of these trips.

also, I would say their entertainment was
another thing they were cutting back on.

And giving…

And this is interesting, and it sort of
go, it sort of works in, planners' favors.

They're giving more free time.

People want more free time,
so it's not a bad thing.

But rather than having structured,
you know, every second filled up

with activities or tours and things
like that, you know, people…

They might offer them, and it's up
to people if they wanna do it or not.

But yeah, free time is really
something that the participants

are valuing these days.

And they usually are allowed
to bring a guest that…

You know, formerly it was always a
spouse, but now people can bring partners,

they can bring a friend, they can bring
a child, you know, an adult child.

Usually they don't like young, youngins,
unless it's a family incentive.

you could even bring a parent, so

Brandon Giella: That's, that's great.

This sounds like a win-win actually.

You know, it's a little bit shorter trip.

Maybe the trip itself is a gift,
and so you're okay with that.

But I get more free time out of the deal.

It's like, maybe it's not so bad maybe.

like that.

one question I wanted to ask you
was, thinking about the actual

planner's role, how, how is that,
how is risk management becoming like

a larger, you know, remit for them?

Like, i-is it that they're having
to develop skills in this area, or

is this something traditionally that
a lot of planners are familiar with

and now it's just kinda escalating?

Or is this kind of like a new,
you know, something more that they

need to be thinking about when
they're putting trips together?

lisa: I don't think it's more, it's just
maybe a little more focus on it now.

I would say that planners of, corporations
often have their own security, people

who do the background checks, and
they may even accompany the group.

So in some cases it's that.

A lot of times they'll work with
their on-the-ground partners, and

that could be a destination management
company or it could be a convention

bureau or, also known, like a tourist
office, or they're also c- known as

destination management organizations.

Those partners are very valuable.

They can certainly steer them away from
things that they think are inappropriate,

perhaps give them insight into security
issues, that they may not be aware of.

so I-- Also, the, the, another
issue when Ashley was mentioning

this, I was thinking about this,
their contracts are getting tighter.

You know?

They re- you really have to
contract well and make sure that…

Well, if you need to cancel, and
very few are canceling, but if-- I do

know of one company that was supposed
to meet in the, in, Dubai, and this

was right after, I, I guess it was
February when we had, first had, the

war first started in, the Gulf there.

yeah.

What happened was they, they called
in their, they had a contract

with a, a big, hotel company.

What they did was they
called their partners.

it was, they honored their contract.

They moved the program, I
believe, to someplace in Europe.

I don't know.

I don't remember the specifics,
but they didn't have a problem.

But you know, it was part of
their partnership with the hotel

indus- with the hotel chain a-
and also, with their contract

Brandon Giella: So yeah, make sure,
whatever you're about to change you

have in writing or not in writing to

lisa: Oh yes, super important

Brandon Giella: Yeah.

Ashley, for you, when, thinking about
individual, you know, planners or what

you're hearing in the advisory group
or, you know, through Switchfly's data,

is there, different ways people are
thinking about their trips as well?

Like you mentioned obviously like
adding more insurance, but when

they're planning the actual trip
and thinking through that and their

risk management, how are you seeing,
different things change on that side?

Ashley Martinez: Yeah, for me
personally, I'm, I'm actually

planning my honeymoon right now,

Brandon Giella: Oh gosh, yeah

Ashley Martinez: and
we wanna go to Turkey.

But just given the political situation
and the dynamics of the world, you

know, I've booked all refundable rates
of airfare, hotels, things that I

could have flexibility if I need to.

I think on the leisure and incentive
side, from an American point of view or

US-centric, Americans have really changed.

Instead of going abroad, they're
really looking for more localized

regional trips, as Lisa was describing.

And I think, but the underlying, idea
behind travel, right, is still there.

It doesn't matter what the
destination is, you still have

that inspiration and aspiration.

So that's consistent
a- across destinations.

And I think the role of a travel
planner or a group incentive planner

is really to educate your, your
customers or your travelers of the

risks, obviously, of the rewards, and
then have a pulse on what's going on.

but this, you know, that's really
their job, and this is consistent.

This isn't new, obviously,
in any, any time.

So I would say it's not
something to be worried about.

Obviously, just to have a pulse on and
understand it might shift in the short

term where those destinations are.

But the heart of travel is going
to remain and it is consistent.

And so people are still traveling.

it just may be they're a little
more intentional about, like I said,

with my own, trip, maybe I'm pri--
I'm getting a little more expensive

rate to make it refundable just
so I'm more proactive in, in the

event that, we need to make a change

Brandon Giella: Sounds like
traveling is more expensive now.

Gotta get the, you gotta get
the premium refundable option.

Ashley Martinez: You, well, you
need to listen to our episodes about

points and how you can use your

Brandon Giella: That's true.

That's true.

That's true.

Ashley Martinez: Yeah

Brandon Giella: Lisa, I wanna
see if you comment on that.

do you agree that the underlying,
you know, premise behind travel for,

on the program side is still there?

Are people just more, a
little bit more cautious?

Like, what's your,
what's your take on that?

lisa: I, I don't think so.

I, I think the appeal of travel and this
kind of travel, because it's, it's what

incentive travel aims to be is something
that people can't recreate on their own.

So these trips are very
special and very unique.

I don't think people
are looking to cancel.

I do know of a cer- a few certain,
circumstances where if there, people

are concerned about traveling at
that time or to that destination,

that they are being offered an
individual certificate to travel.

could be to the s- usually to the
same place, or could be someplace

else, but it's still a reward, but
it's something that appeals more to

their individual preferences, because
personalization is also a very important

part of, incentive programs, too.

Nobody wants to force anybody to
do things they don't wanna do.

It's a reward

Brandon Giella: Makes sense.

Yeah, I, I feel like I
still wanna go, you know?

Maybe, I don't…

Maybe not with the group, but I wanna go.

what, what else in your research, I'll
kind of open up the floor a little bit.

Is there anything else in your
research or in the survey or the, the

presentations or work you've been doing
that you think listeners ought to know

when thinking about risk management?

lisa: I think communication is
something that we haven't mentioned,

but that's super important.

I think as long as the planner, comp- you
know, the sponsor, the program organizer,

because it's, it's a whole group.

You know, sometimes the
planner's a third party and not

even part of the organization.

But keeping communication open,
during leading up to the program.

you know, if there's any changes
or any concerns, just ta-

taking that into consideration
and being flexible, you know?

And knowing that, yeah,
things happen, but-

It passes.

I mean, it's not, I ha- I'm not
seeing anything like what, what

we saw during COVID where people
were canceling programs outright.

That, that's a very different scenario.

And a lot of those
programs were postponed.

I don't even see postponements right now

Brandon Giella: Is that the, the
case also for, for the travelers

themselves to keep open communication
if they have questions or whatever?

I'm sure they can route
those up through the system,

lisa: Of course, of course.

They wanna know, yeah.

Yes, yes, their concerns,
you know, everything.

Both two w- you know,
both ways, both ways, yeah

Brandon Giella: yeah.

Well, I wanna, more personally, what
are you guys looking forward to in,

with your, your group, with SITE and
some of the work that you're doing?

What are you guys looking forward to, this
year or this next quarter throughout 2026?

Any kind of forward-looking
advice or, the way you're thinking

about things in the future?

lisa: I think that people
are looking forward to

maybe, maybe, maybe a little
less, political volatility.

Although it's a little hard to
say with the Canadian tariffs

that keep changing because

Brandon Giella: Yes

lisa: I mentioned beforehand,
before we got on air, that, Canada

was just very happy saying that
they're welcoming back US groups.

And that was meetings
and events in general.

It wasn't specifically incentives.

And maybe now that…

Yeah, it, you know, it's just, it,
it's volatile and, it would make

people look and say, "Well, maybe
I won't think about that now."

But on the other hand, I do
know, me personally, I will be

going to the SITE conference in
Vancouver, which is early 2027.

So they're not pulling back.

Brandon Giella: Let's hope that you
guys can go and that the tariffs won't

be 50% more on the ticket prices.

lisa: I'm sure it'll change a number
of times between now and then.

Brandon Giella: You never know.

You never know.

where are you traveling next
that you're most excited about?

lisa: I am traveling next to…

Well, I'm gonna be going to Las Vegas
for IMEX, which is a very big industry

travel trade show, for the meetings and
incentive industry, and that's in Vegas

every October, so I'll be going there.

but I've been to Vegas and, you know,
it, it, it's, it's a lovely place.

But what I'm really excited about is
North Star, our own event, we're holding,

that we hold every year, it's called
the Global Incentive Summit, and every

year we go someplace exciting and new,
and, we bring planners with us, and we

have suppliers, and they meet, and they
get to see all about a destination.

So last year it was Budapest,
and this year it's Madrid, and I

have not been to Madrid in, mm,
I hate to say how many years.

Oh, it's decades at this point.

Brandon Giella: Well,
that's, you got one up on me.

I've actually never been to any of those
places that you mentioned, Budapest,

Madrid, or Las Vegas, so I feel
like I have some more places to tick

lisa: Oh, you're missing out, Brandon.

Come on

Brandon Giella: know, I know.

Ashley, what about you?

anything to look forward to this quarter?

I know, well, honeymoon obviously
is, is on the list, but anything

you guys are working on as well?

Ashley Martinez: I am going
to Brazil in a couple weeks.

That's gonna be a new one for
me, so I'm very excited about.

And I'm also going to be
taking my mom to Korea.

Brandon Giella: wow

Ashley Martinez: yeah, we are
in lieu of the wedding doing

all kinds of skincare prep.

It was, and

Brandon Giella: Yes.

Ashley Martinez: travel is a
big trend that we're seeing,

so I am following along.

so I'll be taking my mom to Korea.

So I'm, I'm excited about those two.

But Madrid's one of my
favorite cities, Lisa.

I'm very excited to see what, what
comes out of the, the North Star event

lisa: I'll follow up
with you for some tips

Ashley Martinez: Yeah,

Brandon Giella: great.

That's great.

right, anything else before we wrap up?

Thank you so much for, for all of
your insight, but any other commentary

on your research or anything
else you'd like people to know?

lisa: People should keep
traveling, you know?

There's, there's always a new place
to discover and, you know, variety

is the spice of life, so, you know.

What, like I said before, what may
be in vogue or may seem a little, a

little risky now, a year from now it
could be a completely different story.

So just keep your eyes open and, you
know, think about where people might

wanna go and what will inspire them.

That's the main thing.

Brandon Giella: So maybe the
takeaway is the future is

uncertain, but keep going anyway

I love it.

Well, Lisa, thank you so much for
your time, for being on the show.

We're so excited to have you.

And Ashley, it's great to see
you, and good luck on your

travels in the near future

lisa: Great to see both of you

Brandon Giella: Thanks guys.

See you next time