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Welcome to EV Quest — your source for electric vehicle insights, based in New Zealand. Hosted by Adrian Maidment, the podcast features a weekly roundup of the latest EV news from Aotearoa, Australia, and around the world, often joined by Riz Akhtar from Carloop. You'll also hear interviews with key figures from the EV industry and the wider sustainability sector, along with reviews of the latest electric vehicles.
And welcome to the EV Quest Podcast. I'm Adrian Maidment. This episode, I'm talking gold, gold, gold. My guest is Dan Wallace, cofounder of ebike maker Valjuro. Dan is back in Tauranga after recently winning gold at the thirty third China International Bicycle Fair held in Shanghai for Velgero's new Phantom e gravel bike.
Speaker 1:Good day, Dan.
Speaker 2:Good day, Adrian. How are you?
Speaker 1:Good. Thank you. Last time I saw you, we were we were riding some Valkyries at the mounts in summer. Now it's all about a new brand. So what's going on?
Speaker 1:What's going on?
Speaker 2:That's all in the news. Velduro. Yeah. So I seem to be very much immersed in everything electric bike related. So Velduro is a new electric bike brand that are powered by quite a revolutionary motor by DJI.
Speaker 2:Valduo was created by myself, my business partner Anthony Clyde and our China business partner Dick Lai midway through last year. Basically, Anthony came out of retirement to kinda create this new brand, and what drove us is basically the DJI Avanox motor system.
Speaker 1:Yep. And he's got a very extensive history in the the e bike space, such as Smart Motion. Yeah. But I just mentioned that DJI. I know them because of cameras and well, cameras and drones, and I was like, what's this DJI doing on the side of a bike?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. So they they so yeah. Absolutely. So DJI, China company, you know, long heritage with making high powered motors in the drone industry and then also extremely intelligent interfaces and software programming in the camera and drone industry.
Speaker 2:And essentially what happened a couple of years ago is the found one of the founders of DJI, who is also an avid mountain biker in China, and that's quite a a big growing segment of society, turned around and said, listen. We can do better than what's being produced from a motor point of view, and we can do better from a software interface point of view. So the DJI Avinox motor system was born. Now in order for them to turn around and to show kind of consumers how good it is, they also created a brand of mountain bike called, Amflow. And Amflow kind of a an EMT bit.
Speaker 2:They were designed with, a lot of European right writers and designers and the the founder of DJI. And then they basically showcased this and launched it eighteen months ago at Eurobike. Since then, the world's gone kind of nuts because no one has been able to match the power and intelligence of the motor. The Avinox itself, it rides in New Zealand in a couple of months. It's gone through the roof.
Speaker 2:It's nuts as well. Yeah. So now, you know, it is a motor that's surpassing every competitor, basically.
Speaker 1:Yeah. We've got one in the studio, but you can't see it, but we've got one that looks very looks very impressive. What so just the just the performance specs that make it such a standout?
Speaker 2:What makes it so standout is I actually met with one of the designers in the at the Shanghai bike show, and one of the thing he explained it quite well. He turned around and said, listen. You know, the other top brands in e bike motors is like Bosch motor, Shimano motor, Brose motor. Those are probably your three tops. And he turned around and said, the way the West views it is they see an e bike motor as as a pit as transmission.
Speaker 2:It's an engine. We don't because that transmission or that engine is something that we can achieve easily through our drone technology. What we've viewed it as is the interface, the connectivity, and how intelligent it is. So the the AVINOX motor, although it is extremely powerful, the way that the power is delivered is really smooth and really adaptable to whatever you want. So you can basically program that motor to link it to garment, to heart rate motors.
Speaker 2:He alluded to that it's already been preprogrammed for AI, so the whole bike will basically become an extension of your legs, things that no one else has ever really done. From a power point of view, the top motor, on the market is really the Bosch six performance or the Shimano e p eight motor. They both have 85 nanometers of torque. DJI's Avanox, when it came out of box eighteen months ago, had a 20 nanometers of torque. So it's already, you know, almost 50% more powerful and peaks at a thousand watts of power versus the top motor by specialized S Works or Bosch as seven fifty.
Speaker 2:So automatic, they blew that out of the water. But what they did really well is that the way that it's delivered is so smooth, you don't feel like you're on a piece of machine that's that powerful. And then size is tiny. Weight is tiny. Batteries are big but small.
Speaker 2:So range anxiety goes. So, you know, all of those things make it the most sought after motor in the world, basically.
Speaker 1:And how was that sort of design put together with your bike? Because it's only sort of part of it. You've to put the rest of the bike
Speaker 2:together. Yeah. So we created the brand kind of last year because our China partner, Dick basically approached Anthony and I and said I'd like to create a new brand. I've got the partnership with DGI which was you know opened some doors that we never thought we'd have that ability do and then we use a carbon frame factory in China that's the top three in the world. They do some massive massive brands and basically you design a bike up with that motor.
Speaker 2:And because it's carbon, you can actually change and tool quite easily. So when you see our bikes, very hard to actually tell it's an e bike now, because of the size of the motors and size of batteries.
Speaker 1:And on your website, it also mentioned you've got a partnership part with Australia as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So the partnership with Australia so, obviously, it's all well and good to create a brand of bike. And even though DJI will carry you a lot of places because of its reputation, you still have to have a bike that is rides well. It's kinetics are really good. It's all numbers are good and designs and suspension, etcetera.
Speaker 2:So what we've done is we've kind of done a massive collaboration where we've worked with a lot of designers in New Zealand, some in China, some in Raider Rooer and also a guy in Adelaide Australia who has painted a suspension system called iTrac and Hugh basically was part of also the process to make sure that our next model which has been tested next month which is a full suspension mountain bike the rear suspension was able to handle the power of the DJI Avanox basically and to make sure it was smooth, know, a whole lot of stuff. So he was part of that as well and you'll see him like on the back end of our in the rear triangle you see iTrack Peyton. So Norco used them for the race team, for example. So he's pretty pretty well known in that high end kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Okay. So was it sort of about the bike? What made you wanna go to the the show in China?
Speaker 2:Well, the the thing is, like, we had to produce a certain amount of models for DJI to kinda partner with us. And so although the brand is kinda a Kiwi faced and it's designed Kiwi and China side, everything is tested in New Zealand. All your or you'll see the reviews will be always be New Zealand First. Content will be New Zealand First, but it is also a global brand. So in order to kind of get that out there, you kind of gotta go to these bike fairs.
Speaker 2:There's kind of three or four major ones in the world. The Shanghai China bike show is now one of the biggest. It used to be not so, but it's now being seen as one of the world leaders. So we had our gravel bike, which is our first one. We'd just tested it.
Speaker 2:We've just launched it on a website. We literally three days before we flew out to China, the review from New Zealand Cycling Journal came out, which was a a great review. And then we're on this world stage in this big kind of showroom. And then day one, I arrived there and Dick was like, hey, Dan. Just to let you know we've won an award.
Speaker 2:I was like, oh, yeah. We thought we might have a rec recognition award for kind of, you know, token kiwi's kind of jumping in there. And then next minute, like, I'm on a stage with maybe, you know, 80 media people taking photos of me, maybe three or 400 people in the crowd, dudes from, like, Beijing, high up, sustainable, you know, and I'm, like, smiling as kinda like this. The only white guy in the room kinda thing. It was it was pretty mind blowing, but then it just kind of exploded, went viral.
Speaker 2:So at the fair, we had obviously our our gravel bike. We had two variants of it showcasing, and we also had a three d print, so plastic three d print of our mountain bike, which is tested next month, and that kind of grew so much attention that we had media organizations around the world interviewing and doing a whole lot. If you look on YouTube, there's all this crazy stuff. So, yeah, kind of guess it would be the definition of viral.
Speaker 1:In the real world, going viral
Speaker 2:on
Speaker 1:just other phones.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And and and yeah. And the way that Bike World works, interesting enough, it's like China produces, and I remember this, food and 74,000,000 bikes a year. That's how much they produce. And 47,000,000, for example, go to The US.
Speaker 2:And so, like, the the it's huge. The innovation is huge. The factories are huge. It's it's mind blowing. So the show itself is so big, it would take you probably three days to walk it.
Speaker 2:Like, I'd do two hours each morning to try to have a look, and I didn't cover. I covered maybe 60%. It's just overwhelming.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I read a couple of the specs. What was it? It was I got it's a 60,000 square meters Oh,
Speaker 2:that's mind blowing.
Speaker 1:13 exhibition halls and a hundred and 1,600 companies participating.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. And that doesn't really do it. Just as like when I walked in there, I did not really know what to expect, and it was I was like holy heck. It was huge.
Speaker 2:And then the crazy thing is like next week that might be another show like for power sports or for boats or something like so is that the kind of the World Expo Center in Shanghai? But, yeah, huge, huge, huge. But, yeah, yeah, kind of chucked us on the global stage.
Speaker 1:And the actual award you got was gold award for creative product. Yeah. So we got a gold award. We got a
Speaker 2:gold certificate. We got a very nice gold trophy, a crystal trophy, which I should have bought. But, yeah, really cool. A really awesome award, and it also meant, like, all the gold award winners. So there was 15.
Speaker 2:We went up there was 600, entries. So we won out of 600, and there's and we won the bike category. And then there's, like, 15 others. So and you're all in the showcase in this hall in the middle of the expo so people can come and see the gold winners. So, like, one of the guys that was also winner and was amazing was another motor system, but it uses only magnets.
Speaker 2:So zero resistance. So, yeah, it was it was really, really, really cool. But what also happened was because where we were at and I would have looked a little bit different to the rest of the people on stage, there's a lot of media there from The US and UK and they were like, right, who are these guys? Love the Kiwi story kind of blah blah blah. So
Speaker 1:yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Not saying. Honestly, it's it's ridiculously overwhelming. I I liked coming back to New Zealand and having a breather.
Speaker 1:Must be pretty hard to stand out in that show with so many bikes.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And it did, which is amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I'm guessing what's the I guess what's the response been since that?
Speaker 2:Huge. So the response has been massive. Probably every day. We haven't even, like, really marketed. Every day, probably have 30 to 50 emails.
Speaker 2:I came back to New Zealand and had over 400 in the inbox. I was like, oh my god, what am I gonna do? And you know, lot of that's Kiwis really keen to get behind the Kiwi brand, especially DJI brand. And then a lot of it is, people abroad that love the story. Our whole premise was, you know, create high quality products, DJI powered and collaborate with riders and designers and then try to as much as we could put New Zealand back on the spotlight and for the mountain biking and cycling kind of world because we kind of get in New Zealand like because I own I have lots of different hats and I own a e bike retail store as well.
Speaker 2:What happens is New Zealand always gets allocated whatever is left over. So we either get a really good model of bike, but we're only allocated a small amount because we're just little old New Zealand, or we get models that are really designed for European markets, so they're more kind of urban. And then we have to adapt them for New Zealand. So our whole thing was that we want to put New Zealand on the in the front first. Our, you know, Kiwi riders are some of the best in the world, if not the best, and our trails, if not the best, but we seem to be forgotten about.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So who's actually your target market for the
Speaker 2:It depends. So we have we have three three variants. There's three models coming out this year. So the first one, the one that we launched in kind of one was the e gravel market and that's for gravel riders and that's a very high end electronic shifting, full carbon rims, a beautiful bike, high high price tag. Right?
Speaker 2:People in that in that kind of bike road gravel circuit, that's, you know, we're we're about 30% cheaper than our competitors, we've done that on purpose. And then we also created a flat bar variant, which is what I'm riding, and it's more of a urban commuter does everything but spec down so it's got mechanical Shimano queues, derailleurs, alloy rims blah blah blah. Our store DJI, store car and frame but that it will retail like in the 7 grands which is crazy for what it is. So that's kind of for the everyday commuter but the one that we what we've done for every single model is we also produce frame only and that's quite unique. So that means that, for example, you might have a quiver of bikes in your garage and you might go, I don't use them.
Speaker 2:A lot of people won't go electric bikes, but they will for DJI because the hype around it and because they're super light and and and sophisticated. So the frame only options means that kind of it's more like a bike for the people, so you can basically use your old bikes to spec up your new bike and you can get a relatively still expensive, you know, but relatively cheap, DJI full carbon powered bike and, you know, customize it your way. So the target market's kind of bit of everybody. So that's the one that's in production. The second one that's being tested, is, the in June in New Zealand is EMTB.
Speaker 2:So a 60 mil travel, which is more of an all mountain with a mid pivot system suspension system by iTrack. And then once again, you'll have we'll have a high, component level, a mid component level, and then we'll do frame only. And I think I've got about 300 pre orders for the frame only alone in New Zealand because no one really does it and no one's ever done it with DJI so you can literally you know get your old mountain bike you might be a really avid mountain biker and just customize our frame to put whatever you want on it. And that's kind of unheard of and that's what seems to be, know, people are really excited about the mountain bike session. Gravel is a massive market in overseas, but it's only growing in New Zealand.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So that's really kind of exciting. And what it means is like moving forward, like, Adrian could you know, you could spec one yourself. You could then we'll have a YouTube channel. You can talk about it and why you spec that and how you made your motor system adaptable to you and blah blah.
Speaker 2:So it becomes a real collaborative brand. So
Speaker 1:Yeah. Was wondering. I saw that thing just by the frame. Was like, is that a thing?
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's not really, but it's it's it's people want it. Like, what we're trying to do is listen to the industry. Bikers, cyclists are probably the most pedantic people in the world. They really are.
Speaker 2:And and really go down the rabbit hole pretty deep. So even if you produced a bike that had the most every single one's the best components, they would find something they don't like. They might like like the brand or the travel or the size of or the the the, you know, whatever. They'll find something they don't like. So we're like, that's cool.
Speaker 2:We we wanna also, you know, give you the opportunity to do whatever you want. Frame only gives people the opportunity. Those that that section that don't wanna buy a bike that's set up for them, they can customize it any way they want. So and there's been a huge amount of interest in it. It's kinda mind blowing.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And you I mean, you have got a website up. You asked very sort of a a very young business, but the website's up.
Speaker 2:Yeah. The website's up. So Velduro.com will change to Valjuro.co.co.nzed as more distributors around the world. Like, I've got meetings after this with Europe and Eastern Europe, and there's, like, list of countries that want the brand, which is cool. Kiwi's story is really resonating.
Speaker 2:I like for the gravel section, preorders will open for that next week. All sizes. So when you get a test bike, you only can choose one size. So the size that was tested on is a medium. So now the frame factory now creates all the other sizes.
Speaker 2:So large, XL, small, and then that takes a little bit longer, then production occurs. Now with frame only, you can actually get that relatively fast. So in eight weeks, we can order and admits in our doorstep. But when you're doing complete bikes, you're waiting for OME parts from SRAM or Fox or Shimano, whatever the components. It is always a longer wait time.
Speaker 2:So frame only will always be topped up in New Zealand, which is super cool because it's easy. And then the complete bucks are a little bit later on. Yeah. The preorder for the gravels starts next week. Stocks like super limited and then the Rogue, which is the EMTB, they'll be tested throughout June and July and then once it's ready to go, you know, we produce as fast as we can.
Speaker 2:Realistically, we can get frame and medium probably August, but all other frame sizes will be a month after and then complete bikes, more likely November for New Zealand.
Speaker 1:And maybe just because it's all happening so fast well, so happening I guess it's happening. What sort of maybe some tips for the for the business person, the developer?
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's a hard one. Like, yeah, I think it's all about what I've learned.
Speaker 1:What have you learned? What have have learned, Dan? What have you learned so far from this?
Speaker 2:Well, I don't like, lots of hats in the ebike land, but I think predominantly it all comes just down to relationships. I really think it is. I just think, you know, everybody has this view that you have to be a dick in business or you have to be arrogant or you have to be, I don't know, a different nature to us. When Anthony and I went into business, we're like, we we don't we we just wanna be good people. And I think if you're good people, people see that and they actually respect it.
Speaker 2:And then you surround yourself by those like minded people. And for us from a bike point of view, we're very aware that a new brand is a new brand. But if you collaborate with the industry, you listen to the industry, you use components that are known to the industry, high end, high end manufacturers, and then obviously DJI, you know, ultimately, yes, you might have the heritage of your brand, but you're also telling a story that's, you know, by the people for the people. And, you know, the other thing is, like, the bike industry is unbelievably overpriced. So what we've been able to do is, you know, we we don't have massive buildings in Geneva or New York, but we're also able to strip costs right back so we can, you know, create a product that like for like is generally 30% cheaper, which is great for consumers because money's money.
Speaker 1:Just summing up, when when are the bikes actually gonna be available? Get to the
Speaker 2:Crux of it. For the gravel bike, which is the gold winner, they are available and will be in in October. People will need to preorder them prior.
Speaker 1:Can I preorder now?
Speaker 2:You can oh, as in next week, you'll be able to, and we're just all we do for preorders is you put a $500 deposit, % refundable, but it locks you in because size is limited because in all honesty, we were with GJI last week and Shenzhen, and, you know, they struggling to keep up with demand because there's other brands that are using their motors too. So we're also dictated to what how many they units they can provide us basically. So New Zealand will always get first dibs and then it will go to the rest of the world.
Speaker 1:What's the warranty? How what's the warranty on there?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So everything's in the e bike lane is pretty similar. It's all it's all two year warranty on anything electrical. DJI is an unusual company because they don't really have any warranty issues with the motor. Like, the actual quality is just is next level.
Speaker 2:Here's an interesting story for you and might hopefully get picked up by the New Zealand media, they can talk to you or me a bit further.
Speaker 1:Can I say the word exclusive here?
Speaker 2:Exclusive. Yeah. Exclusive.
Speaker 1:EV Quest exclusive.
Speaker 2:EV Quest exclusive. So the DJI motor, the way that so every country around the world has a restriction on how fast a motor can go. So for example, if our bike, the Valduro Phantom, that's the the gravel bike, if we took that over to Australia and started riding it, that bike would be limited to 25 kilometers an hour because that's a speed restriction for Australia. If we then took that bike to UK, it would sit at 32 kilometers an hour, for example. Now most motor manufacturers, you have to manufacture the motor specifically for each country.
Speaker 2:So if you bought an Australian model here, it would be crap because it's only 25 an hour. DJI is so advanced that uses satellite and GPS. So those motors are geofenced. So wherever the bike goes around the world, it automatically changes. So you don't nothing happens from a manufacturing level.
Speaker 2:We're like, okay. That's cool. So then we, you know, we created this Phantom gravel. We had it we're get about to get it out for testing. We're like, contact DJI.
Speaker 2:Hey, DJI. What's the speed restriction gonna be for New Zealand? It's all geo fenced and don't worry. It's it's it's it will move or sell it. Okay.
Speaker 2:That's cool. And I'm like I've been in the industry eight years. Anthony's been in it for, like, eighteen years. New Zealand's, E bike rules are very gray. In 02/2002 they were created so very outdated.
Speaker 2:Anyhow, we get this bike and we start testing it. It is unlimited.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay. I thought there was a limit. Thought there
Speaker 2:nothing. And if in New Zealand's government doesn't we don't have a limit. So we've got motor power restrictions that apply to hub driven motors. That was 02/2002. We don't have a motor.
Speaker 2:So the actual the the actual policy is as long as you're adhering to the road rules in a 50 k zone, you're going under 50, you're fine. Now that's not necessarily great either because, we don't want a motor that is unlimited. So now we can DJI to actually cap it, but it does have a bigger EV quest exclusive discussion point that maybe we could get like I talked to Michael Woods who was the old transport minister about this eight years ago but maybe we could have this stuff updated so everybody has some clarity
Speaker 1:give me a call What's the plan for the next say oh can you plan six months ahead of some
Speaker 2:sort Yeah so plan so obviously the gravel's in production all sizes cool so high commuter and then frame only Second one is the All Mountain. That's being tested and it arrives about the June 15. That gets tested in Rotorua, some really big riders, top riders, and experts in the field. That all goes tickity boo, then we start production of that. And then so that will be available for a sale in New Zealand in kind of October, November.
Speaker 2:You'd have to put your preorders in. And then we actually have another model that's in the design process, so it's already on paper and on on the computer. Thing is with our bikes because our DJI and carbon are extremely light. Like, so our Phantom top model is like 14 and a half KGs and our alloy is like 15 KGs and our mountain bike, you know with a 60 mil of travel will only weigh at about twenty one and eight hundred watt battery which is crazy.
Speaker 1:Thank you very much for your time and look forward to what happens next.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Adrian. Thank you.