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The iGaming Leader Podcast with Leo Judkins uncovers the human side of the iGaming industry's most successful leaders. Join us as we explore the untold stories, challenges, and triumphs of the executives shaping one of the world's most dynamic sectors.
Each week, we dive deep into conversations with C-suite leaders, founders, and directors from global betting firms and innovative startups. Our guests share their authentic journey to the top, revealing pivotal career moments, leadership philosophies, and personal strategies for sustainable success in this high-pressure industry.
More than just another business podcast, we focus on the crucial intersection of wellbeing and high performance. Discover how industry leaders maintain peak performance while managing stress, work-life integration, and team dynamics in an industry that never sleeps.
Whether you're an aspiring leader, current executive, or passionate about the iGaming sector, each 30-minute episode delivers actionable insights to help you thrive in this fast-paced environment.
Subscribe now to join a community of high-achieving iGaming professionals committed to making this industry not just successful, but sustainable for its leaders.
Justin Anastasi: I think people feel that because they have a voice that it has to be used. Is what you're saying going to add value? Have you really taken the time to listen?
I find that a lot of people are so caught up with the difficulties and why it can't be done, but not so focused on why it can, how it can.
I find it very difficult to sit down and do nothing. I don't really feel like I can ever stop. For me, for some reason it feels, like relaxing, is a bit of a waste of time. My fundamental belief is I'm here for a limited period of time and I want to get the best possible, outcome of the time that I have.
I don't think you can make a CEO. I think somewhere along the line, somewhere within them, they have that innate ability.
Every person has their own intrinsic toolkits that they need to be successful at something. The trick is to try and identify what those things are.
Leo Judkins: [00:01:00] Welcome to the iGaming Leader Podcast, where we uncover the human side of some of the most inspirational leaders in our industry.
I'm your host, Leo Judkins and as an ex iGaming Director turned Performance Coach, I've worked with over 200 leaders from companies like Entain, bet365, Flutter and many more to help them build the habits to achieve sustainable high performance.
In these episodes, we share exactly what it takes for you to achieve the same.
So with that being said, let's dive in.
Hey everybody. Welcome to the iGaming Leader Podcast. I am super excited for today's guest. I'm here with Justin, who's gone from call centres to catwalks, to C-suites. And somewhere along the way he's, he's decided to say the quiet parts out loud. Talk about the stuff that others really don't talk about. And, we were talking a little bit beforehand. Justin, I'm so impressed by, everything that you've done. Like you are the type of guy [00:02:00] that somebody tells them how to do things, and you do it the opposite way.
And I'd love to explore that a little bit more, more today on the podcast. So welcome, welcome to the show.
Justin Anastasi: you very much, for having me, Leon. I'm very happy to, to be here and I, I look forward to, adding some interesting conversation to the mix.
Leo Judkins: let's start with that, if that's okay. What's the, what's the earliest moment that you can remember where you thought, you know, the rules weren't written for you, where you decided, you know, I'm gonna break away here and do things differently than, than everybody else.
Justin Anastasi: I remember being, being at school, I think it was, young. I mean, I must've been, you know, we're talking early primary school possibly, where, you know, there was a lot of disorder, I would say at, at school, and you'd find me.
Having everyone sit, in particular areas, making sure that, everyone knew, you know, what it was that was going on and making sure that I created a bit of structure. So I listened to the teachers, [00:03:00] and, but, I, I definitely had my own, my own way of, of doing these. I kind of just feel like I was, I really hate to be the one quoting, Lady Gaga, but, I was obviously born that way.
Leo Judkins: I love that. Yeah, I love that. What, and like, did you have moments where you thought, okay, I've gotta, I've gotta kind of comply. I've gotta follow, you know, follow what everybody else is doing. Or have you always, have you been more of a person that felt comfortable just doing things your own way? How, how did that evolve?
Justin Anastasi: I think it's, it's an interesting question for, for me, I think I, I've always struggled with the, the concept of having to do something.
I think that that sentence really computed very well with me. Not because I don't like structure today, I think. Learned to appreciate it. I think what I, struggle with is, [00:04:00] the doing something because it's always been done that way or doing something because I haven't taken the time to think of how to do it a better way. I think, I think it's those approaches that, that I struggle with. So for me, why is, is very, very important. I've asked why a lot, a lot of times, but for me.
I think being able to ask that and feel comfortable asking that without, you know, feeling the, the burden of, feeling silly or feeling like. You know, you shouldn't ask that question, I think has, has helped quite, quite a lot, to be fair. So I've always felt comfortable, challenging, challenging the norm, but not challenging it for the sake of challenging it. I think that's where a lot of people make, make the mistake.
Leo Judkins: Yeah. How so? Tell me a little bit more about that. Why, where do you feel people go wrong with that?
Justin Anastasi: I think people feel that because they have a voice that, it has to be used. And I think that it's important to. Speak when you have something to say. Something, [00:05:00] something that can add value to, to the conversation because everyone has an opinion. Of course that's, that's who we are as, as human beings. We all have an opinion on, on things, but I think, Is what you're saying going to add value that, that you want to say? Have you really taken the time to listen? To what's being said, because I find that, that's a big, a big plus. You know, for me, back in the day, there was a lot of very early teenage years.
You know, there was a lot of, you know what I felt, I thought, and it's good to express yourself, but sometimes it thought would be good to learn. So very early on, I, I took it upon. To really focus on the people who have already been there, done that.
So a lot of my friends, a lot of the people I surrounded myself, but at work even to, to this very day, are people who have had, a lot more life experience and experience in general, certain aspects of of work profession personally that I can and, and learn from, [00:06:00] in terms of their knowledge.
Leo Judkins: I mean, that's the thing, isn't it? It's there's, there's a difference between feeling comfortable speaking out and saying things and asking why, And, and there's what you'd said earlier, there's people that just wanna challenge everything for the sake of challenging it.
Was it, for you, was it more about understanding what's, why things were the way they are? Was it more about can I find a different way? I was trying to, like, I'm asking because I'm trying to uncover the early entrepreneurial mindset, I suppose.
Justin Anastasi: I think, I think for me, I always like to understand why something works the way it works, what has led it to get to that particular stage. But someone said something to me a couple, a couple of months ago, I think, and he said to me, he said he, he, he loves the fact that I, I am unburdened by the problem. And he doesn't understand how, how and [00:07:00] why I can think of the solution so quickly, on my feet. And that's not to, to float my own boat, but I suppose I never really took the time to to, to even reflect on. How, or how I've got to where I've got, how, why I think the way I think until that moment.
And I, and I realized that really I've never really been burdened by the problem. I'm not also burdened by the, the realities of things. But more that I am, I'm really looking beyond all the nerves. And all the reasons why it can be done because I, I find that a lot of people are so caught up with the difficulties and why it can't be done, but not so focused on why it can. How it can. Yes. And I think that is where a lot of people struggle. So even cross my mind what the issue is, the or what is, what is the blocker.
I'm just thinking, how am I going to get it done?
Leo Judkins: I love that. And I see that in everything that you do, Justin, you know, from, you [00:08:00] thrive in the challenge, right? It's, for you, the obstacle is the way I think. And, and it's, it's something that you've talked about a lot where you, you feel that patience has been one of your biggest challenges, right? One of your biggest.
Learning like one of the biggest skills that you wanna develop, but also one of the biggest things that you've found. Challenging. Challenging. So yeah, I can see, I can see how that's true for you and how, problems are actually, Yeah. The area that you thrive in. What happens. So what happens then when you find yourself in a stable situation where there's no, where life is good, business is good.
There's no challenge. I know it's like La La Land, and it doesn't happen. What's what? What happens to you in those situations where it's the opposite of where you thrive?
Justin Anastasi: so for me, it's more a case of. I am constantly working on something else. I, I am, I, there is nothing I don't want to do, or I'm interested in. I'm [00:09:00] very, proactive in that sense. So even though I'm very busy at a Venture Max, I obviously have my own, my own companies, my own projects, my own interest, and I, I can make sure that I'm always. Active.
My challenge more than anything is probably to relax. I, I find it very difficult to, to sit down and do nothing. So even if I am lying down, on the sofa, I am thinking about something, I'm working something out in my head. I am, had played something on my phone. I am. I, I, I don't really feel like I can ever stop. For me, for some reason it feels, like everything's a bit of a relaxing, is a bit of a waste of time. And I, I think it comes down to the fact that my, my fundamental belief is I'm here for a limited period of time and I want to get the best possible, outcome of the time that I have. That, [00:10:00] that time to me. It is, it is almost like a currency, you know? Like I, I put my time into something, I am investing it, you know?
So me having this conversation with you is, is an investment. They are minutes. I will never get back. And am I going
Yep.
I'm going to, am I going to see it as an investment? Is it going to be an investment, or am I on the losing end of that? And I don't like to lose, lose my time because I can't get it back.
And that's what also makes me impatient. It's also what makes me so focused on. For the most part bar, the three minutes it took me to later to pick on onto this call, keeps me coming on time because I don't like to take away from other people's time either. So,
Leo Judkins: it's so true, right? Time. I always say time isn't money because money you can make more of, you can reinvest and time you can never get back, right? So it's a one-time expenditure. So I completely agree with you, with you in that the, there are different mindsets though, right?
There's people that kind [00:11:00] of look at rest and recovery as a way to be able to achieve more in their active periods, if you will. Think about it like sprinting and resting. Not being able to sprint all the time. And there's people that, feel that they've constantly got to be on, like you sound like not have to be on, but are, are constantly on and maybe struggle a little bit more with rest, rest, and a relaxation.
But is it something that you think you want to do? You should, do You have to do the rest of relaxation? You were talking about having been to Gozo for a fair bit, so you know, over the last period. Yeah. Do you, do you think it's something that you want to develop?
Justin Anastasi: I, I think that, and I think it's become more and more as time has gone on, is we, we. We almost feel like there is a, a cure or a fix or a label or a box for everyone. And I don't think anyone should be anything. I don't think, I think, I think if you function well, [00:12:00] and you, and you thrive, in, in that situation, that's what makes you happy.
And I think happiness ultimately is what keeps you going and what and what life is all
Leo Judkins: Exactly.
Justin Anastasi: if you are happy, your body adjusts. You know, some people say, oh, you know, you need to have eight hours sleep, seven hours sleep. Yeah, I function just fine with, with six, six, and a half hours sleep. Now do I know if I'm going to live to 300 or if I'm going to live to 60? I have no idea. But, but I'm very happy with as it, as it's going, and I'm happy within myself. It comes with stress and, and there are times when I, when I think to myself, my God, how much better would it be if I just went back to retail and just. Just did, something I, I really enjoyed, got paid terribly, but, my, I, I enjoyed it, what it was, and. And life was simple and, and good so that are pros and cons to everything, but for me, I think no one should, be anything. You should. The only thing you [00:13:00] should be, is, is happy.
Leo Judkins: you've had such a diverse background. You've been in retail, right? In HARs, you've been in call centres, Popeye village, changing batteries. You know, you've, you've, you've, you've gone, you've been in politics, they are such different worlds as well. What's the constant that you've noticed through those different types of environments? What are some of the things that maybe about yourself that is constant within those environments? Or perhaps about how people work or how people, how to deal with people?
What are some of the things that you've noticed that are the same across those? Yeah. Massively different areas.
Justin Anastasi: you know, you're right. I think, I think in the beginning, I was definitely looking to find myself, you know. So I think that, I think we all, that even though maybe on some people see Visa, it doesn't necessarily show that they did. I think ultimately we, we all, we all do. I think what the, the common thread there [00:14:00] is, is that work is work. And you can enjoy work, or work can just be work. For me, I find enjoyment in work.
Everything I've done has always revolved around, around people, around relationships, around, uh. Adaptability. I think, I think these are, these are all key and I think people are probably even the, the common thread there as well. I, I’m very good with people I love. Working with people. I like learning from people, from everyday people. You know, my partner once had a, had a donut truck, where he was selling donuts and I, I, I went there and with helping him, with the donuts.
I mean, I, back then I, I think I was already, a chief people officer or something like that. And I was there serving donors. So for me, and, and there were silly things, you know, that, seemed trivial at the time that you. Wouldn't expect. But for me, I, I always learn something from someone. And I remember [00:15:00] giving someone a donut, I think it was about Christmastime.
I said, happy Christmas to you and your, to you and your family. He said, and he said to me, I'm going to tell you happy Christmas, but I'm not going to say to you and your family because I don't know your situation, you know, and if you have a family. I was like, I was like, you know what? I said, you, you're right.
And, and and that these little things that you learn along the way, I think, priceless. So if I had to pick. Of what all, everything I've just said, I'd probably say people has been the common, the common trend.
Leo Judkins: I've got a quote here from you. Above all things, I've built solid teams around me, and together we have blazed a trail through whatever journey we've taken together, I think it's such a great. Well, because it really describes what you've just said.
And I mean one of the big things that comes with that is because you love people so much, and you work with people, and you empower people that you work with. Like, of course, businesses go through ups and downs as well. It comes with hard decisions as well. It comes with having to let go of people that have been truly [00:16:00] loyal to you for a very long time that you've been truly loyal to, because that's what the business demands, right?
Because that's what the. Whatever that, that's the, the way things go. And what have been some of the hardest, emotionally the hardest decisions that you've had to make when it comes to, to people and, and perhaps that almost felt like they, they went against your values.
Justin Anastasi: well, the most common scenario is probably going to be making people redundant or, or terminating them, of course, is the situation. And I think the most difficult ones are scenarios where it's not necessarily their own fault. I think in some cases, and I can recall a few, were. They were, they were good at the job. Good, but, they were not able to fit into the bigger dynamic, the, the, the culture and, and trying to shift a culture, especially [00:17:00] when you have certain deliverables and certain, objectives that you wanna reach in a short space of time. And sometimes you do just have to, you know, look at the bigger picture and make those tough decisions. I think for me, what makes those decisions less difficult? And being transparent. You know, I remember in the beginning of my career, people, my, my bosses would, would fire people, with this very long-winded, approach.
And we all know what's coming. I mean, and I, I learned a lot of what not to do in my, in my career very early on. So for me, it was. I'm very direct. You know, if I'm having that conversation, someone's being let go. So we're going to be letting you go. But that's the first, that's the first thing. They, they already know.
I've already said, what, what's going to happen? The why, how we're going to make that happen. What is it going to be? The support. I don't let people go and just throw them out [00:18:00] without giving them a plan. I think for me, that's very important. You know, I'll go through the CV, I'll go through their, their references, I will help them, secure another opportunity, where obviously I think that they. And they're good employees. And I think the key there in those difficult scenarios is to make sure that you treat people well, in, in, in a dignified manner.
Because a lot of people forget that those people go to other companies, they go to your competitors, they, they obviously, they become a part of your employer around ultimately. So, difficult decisions. They were, I think for the most part, I don't think we've ever, at least, well, I keep saying we, I have ever, um. Left someone without a positive outcome to some degree.
Leo Judkins: One of the hardest things in that, in that whole trajectory of redundancies or having to let someone go, is actually the moments leading up to it, right? When you already [00:19:00] know. You are already aware of what's going to happen. The person isn't aware yet. Right. You haven't had, you haven't scheduled in the conversation yet.
You're making the plans. Furthermore, you're well aware of the restructure. People are still having those conversations with you. People that maybe you even consider as friends. How did you deal with those situations, and what would you advise to people perhaps listening that might be going through a situation like that?
Justin Anastasi: Yeah, I think, I think the, the best advice I can say is don't gossip. I think that's, that's a big one. What I find is that people might tell someone that they're close to at work. They might tell someone that wasn't necessarily in the, the board meeting, or the management meeting and it leaks. And it creates, it creates chaos. I think, I think the most important thing is, is to keep it to yourself. Be sensitive of the situation that you're in and do it quick. I, one thing that I can't, I can't stand is when people, drag out, that type of situation, I think it's extremely [00:20:00] disrespectful. And it should just be done swiftly. I also cannot stand it when, when, people do something like that on a Friday. After person's putting an entire week. If you knew about that throughout the week, you need to do it as quickly as possible. So for me, it's the opposite For me. It's not normally on a Monday,
Leo Judkins: Just before Christmas, those kinds of things, like don't do it, you know? Okay. So from the kind of negative side, let's turn it into some positives there. Justin. What are some of the most, what are some of the proudest moments you've had in your career? What are some of the things that you really feel that, you know that is.
The quiet moments perhaps that you've celebrated, maybe you celebrate them loud, I don't know. But what are the moments that you are proudest of, that you've achieved
Justin Anastasi: I think for me, some of the proudest have been when I have brought on or backed someone that, other people wouldn't have backed, or wouldn't have brought on. I'm a big believer in the underdog, for me, seeing those people win. [00:21:00] I think I'm probably my, my happiest, of moments and the same applies even to business.
You know, I, I look at companies as well that I thought has taken, or I've, I've contributed to, and exactly the same thing. I mean, I'm, I'm a big fan of the underdog, and I think in part, I think I see myself as that underdog. And today I
On, on things. I try as much as I can to give the opportunities to, to them, to be able to, progress. Had been bitten by the underdog as well, which is probably the most disappointing, of, of things, that, that one can experience when you are rooting for them all the time. But I think overall that would probably be my, my, my greatest one. And I would say the other one, although it's maybe a little bit cheesy, but the other one is actually my, my niece who I, I love, actually her name is, and she's an absolute star. [00:22:00] So, seeing her grow and, and, and she picks up things like this. There's no tomorrow she's going to be a definitely want to wash. I'm saying that from now. Uh.
Exactly, and I think, I think she's also one of the, one of the proudest things as well.
Leo Judkins: I think back in the underdog is such a's such a's such a great trait. I mean, I've had, I've had Vladimir on the podcast, Pierre, Dimitri, I saw you on stage with all four of you on stage in, in Motown. I'm like, oh, I've, the only one I haven't had is, is Justin. I have to. Have to talk to you because that, like, that's one of the things I love about what you say as well, where it's not so much about the, the pitch deck itself.
It's more about the preparation and the character and the person behind the pitch deck. I think, I mean, what's, why do you feel that that's more important than the actual. You know, getting the the seven words right on the slide and, you know what I mean? Like what the, the things that typical investors [00:23:00] might look for.
Why do you feel the character, the person, is so much more important than the actual presentation?
Justin Anastasi: Yeah, because I think, I think the, I think it's a that is going to be,
They are working their ass off to, to get it over the line. And if they haven't got, if they haven't got the aptitude, or the grit or the motivation, to be that guy, or girl, then the business is ultimately going to suffer.
They might have a great presentation, but if they're not willing to put in the blood, sweat, and the tears to, to make it happen, then you've got a problem. I would say initially when I first took this on, there was a little bit of that, that imposter syndrome. Which is, you know, I have mentioned it before, in passing, in the office and people like, oh, why do you have imposter syndrome?
How, how is that possible? But I, we all have something like, like that at some point, I think. I, I quickly kind of realized that, uh. my background in, in, with people in [00:24:00] HR is actually probably what, makes me very effective in, in, in my role. I mean, at the same time, we have had countless, amounts of decks.
I would say we're close to probably 300 by now. We have, we're probably going to invest in, in maximum three. We've just, finalized one. It is very low, but at the end of the day, the probability of success is, is probably going to be much higher. I, I'm banking on, given that, I'm, I'm backing people.
So I think, I think that for me that is almost the, the, the secret sauce really. And, and why I to look at those, those individuals. Obviously, if you are, if your numbers are completely wonky and. You're saying, listen, I have an idea. It's worth 5 million. Let's make it happen. Not gonna work out.
So there's also a delusion that plays a bit of a part in that. But, but I think if it ticks all the boxes and, and the, the person who's driving the business is going to be solid up, I'd probably back that business more than anything else.
Leo Judkins: [00:25:00] before we started recording, we were talking a little bit about, you know, a building collapse in Malta and people being killed on the road. You speaking out on, even you speaking out on gray listing. Right. I, it was such a, such a great thing that you did. And, and having a voice there.
Why do you feel that that's important for you to do? Why do you feel that that's, I mean, you have the voice, you have the opinion? Why do you feel it's important for you to speak up on those type of topics?
Justin Anastasi: I think it, it's coming from a lot of different places. I think for me, uniquely so is, I am. I'm Maltese, and I live in
So of course I am a bit of a patriot in, in that sense. Two, I am, I'm in an industry that contributes a lot to, to the economy. And for the most part, one could argue, is almost. Has played a part in, Malta's progress, or rapid progress, as well. So I think, we can't [00:26:00] always just talk about the positives.
We can't always just consume, I think we also have to contribute, and con to contribute doesn't necessarily mean just to give. It also means to spark conversation, to critique and to try and, evolve and push things forward.
So for me, I think, If you deny that we're on a gray list. And we need to fix it, and also prevent how, how, how we even got there in the first place, then for me that that is also, counterproductive. It's, it's also really. Right? So I think we need to talk about everything. So if we're going to neutralize our voices.
If we're going to champion a cause, if we're going to be ambassadors for our industry. And if we want, you know, the country we're based in to continue to, grow and evolve and support the, the industry and any industry, then we have to talk about the problems too.
Leo Judkins: Yeah. And you, but you positioned it as an opportunity, right? And that's like, I, I love that as a typical, you right? Going, it's problem. So it's an opportunity, a very different. [00:27:00] From how others would, would position it? Like, what was the response that you got to that? What, what, how did people, you know, what did you hear from people after, after you took that position or, you know, you, you, you, I don't know, showed that position that you had.
Justin Anastasi: Yeah. No, I, I think, I think overall, I would say vast majority has always been very positive. I think, I think the, the business community um. Everyone likes the fact that, these topics are, are raised, they're discussed, and they have an opportunity to even voice their own, their own opinion.
So I think overall it's always very positive. But I'd like to think that there is a small part of the change I see that come after these, these. Commentaries and, and videos and so on, that is somehow related to having been voiced in the first place.
So I think, I think, overall it's been very positive.
Leo Judkins: one of the things I'm super interested in is, one of, one of your career decisions. Justin, I think you [00:28:00] were in, in a call centre where, as you know, motor really rapidly rise in terms of outsourcing and so perfect, perfect timing. You then made a decision to go into a little bit later, to go into politics.
Right. Like I am so curious about that because you are you are a business person. You want change, you, you can't sit still. Right. You, you, you thrive in the challenge. That's definitely something that you'll have in politics. But politics is obviously notorious for just being slow and like it's difficult to change.
Like, what made you decide to enter politics in the first place as a career change?
Justin Anastasi: I mean, to be fair, I think back then. I was looking back a little bit on things and saying, you know, what is it that I, what is that next thing that I want to, to add to value to? And I think politics is kind of like hr, but on steroids really, because you've got an entire country to, uh. To, [00:29:00] to look after. I think what took me into politics is, again, at the time I think I saw nothing but issues. You know, a lot of issues, a lot of good things happening, of course. But I think I, I think sometimes the good things happen, almost. By design, by flus, you know? I think it's just the way most people are, but a lot of the things that could be done better weren't really being addressed.
And I think politically there was a lot, a lot of turmoil, a lot of, a lot going on. And you hit the nail on the head there when you, when you said that I, I tend to go into the problems and the, challenges and see them as opportunities.
And back then I, I saw that as exactly the same. The same thing, which is, it was an opportunity to go in and do something where I'm adding a lot more value to a lot more people with the same effort or maybe just a little bit more. And really contribute to, to what makes Malta great.
So that, that's really [00:30:00] why I got in.
Leo Judkins: , How did you feel being in politics? Did you feel that you were able to create that change? Did you feel that, it was too slow? I mean, you, I think you moved out after six months or so, if I've got that right.
What was some of your experiences there?
Justin Anastasi: It For me, it was a lot slower, than I, than I, than I would like. And I, think there's nothing worse than, having all the energy in the world, all the right ideas in the world and feeling like you're in quicksand, and only going to drive you down.
So I think, I was also a bit naive, as well when I, when I went in thinking that, you know, everyone. Had only the best, interest and intent.
I think for me that was the, that was a bit of a stumbling block. But I think, had things gone, the way that I was hoping, in the way that I was trying to get things, things would've probably been vastly different even today. [00:31:00] but that wasn't the case. So for me, I, I think I had to go through that experience. I had to learn from that experience in order to come like today very, very different. I think today there is no more, naive, Justin, but more just a more of a wise one. And I think had that happen today, it probably would be a very different story.
Leo Judkins: just like you said there being in quicksand, you want to be at the forefront. Of change. Right. And that's, that's difficult when you are part of a bigger whole, I suppose, depending on your position of course, but even, even as a group CEO, that can be difficult, right?
You've got a larger organization to, to kind of consider, and there's direction that the company's going into. Do you struggle with that nowadays with, maybe not being able to create the change as quickly as you'd like to versus when perhaps you were doing things completely by yourself or, you had full reigns in control?
Justin Anastasi: Yeah, I mean, I think, I think today, [00:32:00] I, it, I find it easier to affect, to affect change, of course. And We have great, great shareholders. But I think people sometimes forget that even though you are a CEO, you have shareholders to report to. And when you don't have shareholders, and you are the only, you are the UBO, you have, banks to, to, to report to.
You have, suppliers, you have clients, you have a number of different things. So you're never really completely free to do, whatever you're going to do. However, you wanna do it, I think you always have to consider the, the bigger picture. Ultimately, even that includes also your employees. They have to be, have to buy into, what direction they're going down, the communication that you send, your approach and so on.
And so I think in short, yes, there's a lot more. I feel like it going to take a lot more change today. At the same time. I have always told people. [00:33:00] Anyone who's ever come to me for advice. And a lot of the times when you know they're having trouble with their manager or this hasn't been done or, or, or whatever, and that is, is that absolutely everyone, no matter what their role is, can affect change.
It's just how you go about doing it, you know? So sometimes you can't be so direct. Sometimes you do have to take the longer, more blood soaked path in order to, to get there. But ultimately you'll get there. So if you have, if you have the wheel, if you have, you know, that grit, and you have some, I would say tenacity, I'd say some cunning, a bit of wisdom, some advice you'll, you'll get there, as well.
Leo Judkins: And you know what's interesting, while you were talking, I was thinking about your challenges with patients, right? When you are in a middle management position, then sometimes. You've gotta have patience because you've got to get the rest of the organization with you. On the other hand, actually not having patience is a great, great skill to have or a [00:34:00] great, character trait to have as well there because perhaps you don't wanna sit still.
Perhaps you do want to push through the challenges, and you do want to disrupt what's, you know, an organization that has been, been doing things the way because they've always been done like that for so long. So where's that balance, do you think, between when to choose? I mean, this is a skill that you've been practicing for solo, so I'm going to say that you're the expert here.
What's where, where's the balance between choosing between patients and choosing to be choosing for, action.
Justin Anastasi: think that there has to be a number of factors. It always depends on, on the situation is probably the, the right answer. So how much time do you have and by when do you need the result? I think is, is what probably is, is the driver to how much patience I have. If I need the, the results.
Uh. Yesterday, then I'm probably not going to have much, much patience. But if I have a week, if I have a day, you know, then the approach would probably be, be a little bit [00:35:00] different. I think with patients, ultimately you, you have to have. And that's why I don't really like patients too much because sometimes you have to be patient, you have to sit back, and be okay.
I would probably be a terrible, command or general, in a war because I would probably want to go in with them, to, to get things done. So, um. I think patience for me, it is all it is almost, again, a bit of a superpower in a sense in that, yeah, I don't have
Leo Judkins: Yep.
Justin Anastasi: but at the same time I think I have, the thick skin that you need because have been people in, in my past who have tried to emulate in some way, shape, or. How I, how I rationalize or how I manage and how I do, and it never works. In fact, most of the time I feel it catastrophic, in, in a, in a corporate sense. And a big part of [00:36:00] that is because you have to have a bit of a unique, blend to be able to, to harness impatience. And you have to have, you have to have thick skin. You also have to have some charisma, you know, so, certain things that you might say. From that, that pace of impatience, don't land as brick, but land, you know, a bit softer, you know, more like a little water balloon, or something. So I think, I think for me, it is, something that I, I use a lot.
I do try and find, the balance. And for me the balance is between, being brick, and being that, that, that balloon, if you will.
Leo Judkins: I think it's so true. People often try to emulate other people, and they see what's on the surface, not understanding that everything that's. I actually made that happen is the stuff that's under the water like an iceberg. Right. And You talked about, 2023 being both transformative, [00:37:00] and really intense, a really rare phrase. I, you know, for a CEO I thought, and I just wanted to ask you what's, what's behind that phrase? What was like, tell us a little bit more about that.
Justin Anastasi: I think it's, it was because, growth and comfort don't really. Coexist. Us being able to deliver, you know, making great deals, I think is, is great, and I think we're going to see more of the, the fruits of that, as time goes on. But with that calm, long hours, tough decisions, flights, you know, stress and God knows what else. I think, It can be taxing, to keep evolving. It can be taxing, to keep pushing. It can be taxing to keep, growing. I think, I think what I learned, is the value there is in team. I think, that's, that's probably the, the biggest takeaway there. There was a lot that was done, in [00:38:00]that period where I relied on, you know, very heavily on, the stamina, and the experience of, of my colleagues, my CFO item being, being one of them in, in particular. And that was a good, that was a good, thing to do really, but I also needed that. So I think, I think for me, it's always difficult. To not go in and do something myself, it's, it's difficult to, to take a step back, and to, to believe in team. But I think, was probably my, one of my biggest, takeaways from that period.
Leo Judkins: No longer be the bottleneck. Love it. It's, if only you could duplicate yourself a million times. Right? It would, life would be so much, so much easier. Um. very last question, for like you, your rise in your career progress is truly impressive. And like you said, it's something that you are particularly proud of. And rightly so. I, I'm, I'm going to ask you if for [00:39:00] somebody young, ambitious, that wants to make, wants to make fast progress in their career.
And is listening to this and was perhaps thinking, I'm not going to do exactly like Justin, because that's what he just said that I shouldn't do. What would some piece of advice be that you would give them to, you know, you know, character traits perhaps that you see and that make people really successful, that's help them stand out from the others and help them rise above everyone else?
What would that be?
Justin Anastasi: I probably wouldn't go down the character traits thing because I think,
And I'm going to say why? 'Cause I don't think that you can, you can't make a leader. You know, I think, I think, you can't make a boss. I don't think you can make a CEO. I think somewhere along the line, somewhere within them, they, they, they have that, and they have that innate, that innate ability.
I think the, the, the trick is to be the best version of yourself. [00:40:00] So, I know that sounds really cheesy, and we've heard that before, but every person has their own. Intrinsic toolkits, really, that they need to be successful at something. Okay? For some, they can be successful at more than one, one thing. And the trick is to try and identify what those things are. So for me, it's really to spend time. And this is what has worked, worked for me, is to spend time with people who have more experience than you. Okay. Who have more knowledge than you, who have more life experience than you? And to hear them have conversations, to interact with them, to have jokes, laughs to go to meetings with them, to have calls with them, to have a coffee with them. I think one of the best things that happened to me was I, I learned a lot from my, my elders, and I know it sounds really basic, really fundamental. But they failed. [00:41:00] on a lot of different fronts. They succeeded in a lot of different front fronts, but they failed more than they, they succeeded. So their failures in listening to those stories and hearing about those things have really become part of, of who I am.
So the wisdom I have, the experience I have, the approach that I have for the most part have been moulded by, um. Decades of experience before, before me. Now I don't read. And I think, as I can read of course, but I don't read as much as I would like to when it comes to, when it comes to books and all that sort of stuff, I, I tend to listen more. And I, I like people's experiences more than, than reading. So the other bit of advice I would say is, it is great to have all these self-help books and, and all that sort of stuff, but there is no. One fix all, model or scenario that's going to apply to you. Only you can fix you. And only you can build on you. And I think if you have enough faith in yourself and your [00:42:00] ideas and what it's you want to achieve, find people around you or find people if they're not around you. Find people who become close to and that you can learn from and really tap into that experience to help build. What that vision, what that vision looks like.
Don't be afraid to say, you need help. Reach out. Sometimes you will get the no. Sometimes you might not get an answer at all, but keep persevering. If you persevere, you'll get there eventually.
Leo Judkins: Love it, Justin. What a great note to end on. Be you uniquely you and persevere? Justin, thank you so much for, for today's podcast.
I really enjoy talking to, I'll speak to you soon.
Thank you for joining me on The iGaming Leader Podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, head over to iGamingLeader.com for more conversations and insights. [00:43:00] Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast.
I'm your host, Leo Judkins and I hope to see you next week.