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The Gearbox Podcast brings on industry professionals to explore the day-to-day operations of owning and operating a shop. From common frustrations to industry-wide shifts, this podcast covers it with fun and insightful conversations.
Jimmy Purdy [00:00:13]:
My name is Jimmy Purdy, shop owner, master Tech, transmission builder, and the host of the Gearbox podcast. Here I talk with new and seasoned shop owners, as well as industry professionals about day to day operations within their own shops and all the failures and successes that come along the way from what grinds your gears to having to shift gears in the automotive industry. This is the Gearbox podcast. Well, cool, man. Thanks for hooking up.
Wain Hickman [00:00:40]:
Yeah, I don't think your camera is on.
Jimmy Purdy [00:00:42]:
Oh, my bad. That probably helps. There we go.
Wain Hickman [00:00:47]:
Okay.
Jimmy Purdy [00:00:51]:
My bad. Yeah, I had it off. Yeah. Thanks for coming in, man.
Wain Hickman [00:00:55]:
No, thanks for having me.
Jimmy Purdy [00:00:56]:
Yeah. So we'll start with the intro. I'll let you take the lead on that.
Wain Hickman [00:01:03]:
My name is Wain Hickam. I own Wain's transmission service in Spokane, Washington. I've been doing transmissions for the past 25 years, and it's just what I do, and I'm a transmission guy, I guess.
Jimmy Purdy [00:01:17]:
It's tough, man. That's a tough gig. I've been slowly moving out of the actual building. But you still do building day to day. You're still the owner and builder?
Wain Hickman [00:01:32]:
Owner, builder. I do everything.
Jimmy Purdy [00:01:34]:
Okay. You have a couple of RNR guys, or are you doing the RNR as well?
Wain Hickman [00:01:40]:
I'm doing the RNR, too.
Jimmy Purdy [00:01:41]:
Okay. Well, I guess I think that helps in a sense, when things go wrong. Right. It's easy for you to take it back out than pay someone to. My biggest hurdle was when I didn't do it right or something went wrong, and then I got to pay them to take it back out. It was like, oh, no. And I'm already in the middle of the next one, and I got to stop the presses. And it's like I slowly started pulling back and just doing specialized ones, like performance transmissions or I'll just stick to hot rods or something that it's not.
Jimmy Purdy [00:02:15]:
I got to have it out of here in three days.
Wain Hickman [00:02:17]:
Right, right.
Jimmy Purdy [00:02:19]:
It's so tough. But what's your biggest, I guess, pull right now? Are you doing a lot of the older stuff? Are you getting into, like, the ten R? Are you staying with that?
Wain Hickman [00:02:34]:
I do a lot of dodge diesels. 68 and 48.
Jimmy Purdy [00:02:37]:
Okay. That makes sense.
Wain Hickman [00:02:39]:
I haven't really got into a lot of the ten speeds yet, and I don't know if I really want to.
Jimmy Purdy [00:02:46]:
Yeah, that's fair. It's really hard. There's so many learning curves. I mean, just on the 68 RFEs alone. Right. I can't even buy a remanufactured one. So when they come in, it's like, you don't really have a choice but to go through it. But then everybody wants it bulletproofed, right?
Wain Hickman [00:03:03]:
Right. You can't bulletproof stupidity.
Jimmy Purdy [00:03:08]:
That's a fair point. Yeah. Bad engineering. Cannot be. I'm not reengineering the wheel here.
Wain Hickman [00:03:16]:
Right. I mean, you get these kids in there with these diesels and they just beat the hell out of them, and they expect you to warranty them.
Jimmy Purdy [00:03:23]:
Yeah. Comes back with a broken input shaft or something. It's like, what? That's not on me. That has nothing to do with the way I put the thing together.
Wain Hickman [00:03:39]:
Right. They're just out beating the hell out of it, saying, oh, well, it has a warranty, so they'll fix it.
Jimmy Purdy [00:03:44]:
Yeah. Well, I mean, especially for you, because that's your whole day, then. It's not like you have a staff where you say, okay, you guys go and rip it back out, and it's like, that's back on your plate. Right. You're pulling it back out, you're going back through it. And that's not a quick or easy job to do. How do you feel about, we have a technician shortage, right. It's like the biggest thing.
Jimmy Purdy [00:04:08]:
It's hard to find auto technicians. It's hard to find. People want to work on cars, but then we're talking about transmission rebuilders.
Wain Hickman [00:04:15]:
It's a dying breed.
Jimmy Purdy [00:04:17]:
It's dying. Right. Are you looking for a builder? Have you gone out looking or seen if you have anybody coming in to ask if they can build for you?
Wain Hickman [00:04:26]:
I know a couple of guys that I was thinking about having hiring, but they either want too much money or they don't have the skills.
Jimmy Purdy [00:04:36]:
Yeah, talk about a tough thing to.
Wain Hickman [00:04:37]:
Try to teach the young kids. They just don't want to do it. Everybody wants to be on their phone and just look at their phone and not actually learn the power flow. What makes it do this? What makes it do that?
Jimmy Purdy [00:04:50]:
Yeah. Even to find someone just to show up and tear it down. Have you gotten a lot of interest in wanting it, though? Like a lot of. I want to learn how to do automatic trans. I want to learn how to build it.
Wain Hickman [00:05:04]:
No, not no more.
Jimmy Purdy [00:05:05]:
Okay. That's sad. I feel like I have a lot of guys come through and it really piques their interest. But then it comes down to, like you just said, well, I need you to learn how this thing works. Oh, man, that's a lot of work. What you got to learn, you got to learn, like you said, the power flow. You got to learn how all this stuff operates. So when you have an issue.
Jimmy Purdy [00:05:26]:
You're not just like, blindly tearing back into it, or it's like, oh, we can just pull the valve body and fix this issue. We don't need to go back into the unit. I think that for me, growing up with the transmissions, it was like when something went wrong, it's like you just pull it back out and put it on the bench. Right. And I feel like I've learned over the years, like, well, if you learn a little more about how the thing works, sometimes it's not in the trans. It's usually something in the power flow in the valve body. Right.
Wain Hickman [00:05:56]:
Or it's a hard speed sensor. What's that even, like, a bad speed sensor, right?
Jimmy Purdy [00:06:02]:
Yeah. And it's like you pulled this back out and tore it apart because of a $15 sensor that takes 30 seconds to replace it. Yeah. And learning that stuff. And we started the whole conversation. Everyone tries to stay away from transmissions. And you probably get this a lot, too, in your area where if it has a PO 700, anything, it probably comes to you. Right? I don't know.
Jimmy Purdy [00:06:25]:
It said transmission. I don't want anything to do with it.
Wain Hickman [00:06:27]:
Right. You get a lot of people like that, and it's like, well, dive into it. There's so many other things that can cause a transmission to fail besides the transmission.
Jimmy Purdy [00:06:38]:
Absolutely.
Wain Hickman [00:06:39]:
Like the 604 in the caravans. Like, you're at a dead stop and the speedometer is moving all over the place. It's a bad alternator. A lot of people, they're like, oh, it needs a transmission. No, it needs an alternator.
Jimmy Purdy [00:06:54]:
And how common practice is that at, like, say, the dealer or the dealership, riGht. When it comes in, it's got any sort of shift problem. It's like they're just throwing a transmission in it.
Wain Hickman [00:07:03]:
That's what all of them do anymore, right?
Jimmy Purdy [00:07:06]:
Yeah. No more high level diagnostics. And how has your shop been kind of getting into, I don't know if I call it the new era, but as you get these more complicated issues, you start to get more into engine repair, because that is the root cause of whether it failed or whether that's the complaint. Right. Like, how many times you heard, oh, my transmission is slipping and it's a misfire? Right, right.
Wain Hickman [00:07:31]:
If it's a simple, like, plugs or something, I'll do something like that. But I don't get into motors. That's the hard part for me.
Jimmy Purdy [00:07:38]:
Okay, how do you draw that line? Like, when it comes in and wants, like, well, I want this fixed. It's been to three other shops and everyone's told me it's the transmission, and it come to find out an ignition coil is failing. You would probably take that on, but what if it was like a head gasket? Do you just get your diag and then send it back out to a shop to do that? Or how does that work for you?
Wain Hickman [00:08:00]:
I would send it out to a shop that I trust.
Jimmy Purdy [00:08:03]:
Okay.
Wain Hickman [00:08:04]:
And just tell them what's going on and tell the customer, hey, this isn't what I do. It's not my forte. But this guy here, that's what he does. And then just go from.
Jimmy Purdy [00:08:15]:
You really, really try to just stay as transmission oriented as possible. You just want to be on the bench. That's a. That's also kind of a dying breed, I feel like.
Wain Hickman [00:08:27]:
I go to the seminar every year, the ATRA seminar in Coeur d'Alene. And I'm 45, and I'm still one of the younger guys. There's no younger guys getting into this.
Jimmy Purdy [00:08:40]:
Yeah. And that's hard for me because it's like I'm part of that trend of pulling back out of it, of like, okay, I'll build the ones that make sense, but you really start running the numbers financially, and it's like just such a difficult situation to have you Say three R And R guys, three techs out there waiting on me to build a unit, and meanwhile, I can't get out of the office or the parts don't come in. Right. I mean, how's the parts situation been for you to get, like, rebuild kits and torque converters and it's a nightmare here. I can't get any of this stuff.
Wain Hickman [00:09:18]:
My kits and everything. I haven't really had that much of a problem on. It's more like hard parts, bushings, stuff like that. Solenoids. There is a shortage of bands for a little bit, but I called another supplier and they're like, oh, yeah, how many do you want? And I don't know if it's like, are the manufacturers holding on to the parts and only certain companies are getting them or whatnot.
Jimmy Purdy [00:09:45]:
Yeah, everything's changing as far as. And they got Rostra that's like, made big changes with their solenoid design. And of course, you got all the aftermarkets that are trying to feed into the problems. I'm sure sonics and trans go right. Always trying to come up with new products that fix these broken wheels. Like you said, you can't fix the stupid. It's like you can throw a lot of money at it, though, right?
Wain Hickman [00:10:09]:
You know, one thing that gets me is the stages. How people say stage one, stage two, stage three. And that makes no sense. It's more of a marketing ploy than anything.
Jimmy Purdy [00:10:21]:
Yes. It's hard to even sell what you're going to do to it without marketing it that way because it's such a well known term, though, right? But it's like, what is stage one? What are you talking about? What's stage two? And then the ratings. How are you rating this thing for 500? All that stuff is like, I never understood it. And I've thrown some pretty decent parts in some different units and it still breaks for whatever reason, right. You run it out of fluid, it's still not going to last. So, yeah, I've never understood how they do that or with the shift kits. I think back in the 70s, that was a big thing, like a shift kit. And it's like, I always make sure when someone comes in now it's like, no, this is a shift correction package, right? So it's not a performance add on.
Jimmy Purdy [00:11:13]:
It's just fixing the stupid stuff that they didn't get right. Changing some hydraulic flows and making it so it should last a little longer. And whatever issue it failed for this time, it won't fail for again. You look at a four L 60, it's like, how many products do you have to put in that thing to make it reliable? You know what I mean?
Wain Hickman [00:11:32]:
Right.
Jimmy Purdy [00:11:33]:
But then it's supposed to be the worst transmission out there, but I think it was the most engineered or manufactured one there was too. Right? Yeah. The small percentage of those that fail, it's a huge number because there were so many that were put in freaking everything. I don't know. Right.
Wain Hickman [00:11:50]:
And the 60 got a bad name from the 700. I remember old guys telling me they'd throw the 700 away and put a 350 in their truck.
Jimmy Purdy [00:11:58]:
Right.
Wain Hickman [00:11:59]:
That whole TV set up, they just hated that TV set up. And once that failed, it just ate the unit up.
Jimmy Purdy [00:12:06]:
Yeah. Similar to the AODS.
Wain Hickman [00:12:08]:
Right.
Jimmy Purdy [00:12:09]:
Everyone thinks it's a passing cable. You're laughing because you know I ain't. No damn passing cable. Don't mess with that. Right. And I think that was the biggest failure I've seen, too. Is like, on the 700. I don't know, I just couldn't get my passing gear to work.
Jimmy Purdy [00:12:27]:
What are you talking about? Well, I tightened that cable all the way and now it's shifting really funny. Like, oh, no. Like you said. Oh. I just put a 350 in it because I was so sick of that 700, dude. It's not a bad unit if you take the time to learn it. And I think that's, like, moved on into the generation of no more dipsticks. Right? Because there's too many dipsticks that were messing with these earlier units.
Jimmy Purdy [00:12:51]:
People can keep their hands off them, messing with them, mess with them. Don't touch it if you don't know what you're doing. And now we don't get a dipstick anymore.
Wain Hickman [00:13:01]:
Yeah, that frustrates the hell out of me. Because you fill it up through the pan, and if it drips, it's full. If it doesn't drip, it's not full. Give me a dipstick. I want to know how oil is in that thing.
Jimmy Purdy [00:13:11]:
Yeah. So you know just as well that the fluid foams and it changes, and as the heat, it rises and expands. Yeah. I've never understood that fill until it leaks back out. I'm not confident in those. And there's no other way. Unless you measure it and put it back in. I've had clients come back in because it's a half a quarter court too tall, right.
Jimmy Purdy [00:13:36]:
You fill it up when it's cold, and they go drive it over the grade, and they come back, and it's like, oh, I checked it, and it's, like, way over the max. It's like, yeah. But now the manufacturers are making it to full to where it spills out. So it's like, how would you even know the difference? And it's like, is that really damaging anything when you overfill it like that?
Wain Hickman [00:13:56]:
Well, on the six T's and the six F's, I guess it creates a lot of havoc on them if they're overfall.
Jimmy Purdy [00:14:02]:
Yeah, I've never seen it. We've probably all seen them puke out of the vent. It looks like it's going to burn the damn thing to the ground. Especially on the old E four ODs, when they would overfill and they would start puking everywhere and blow the front seal out and all that fun stuff.
Wain Hickman [00:14:21]:
Especially the motorhomes, they just keep going. Goes right on the exhaust, and you got a big fire.
Jimmy Purdy [00:14:26]:
Yeah. They don't stop till someone's, like, screaming at them on the freeway. Like, your rig is on fire.
Wain Hickman [00:14:33]:
Yeah, we had one of those happen a few years ago at another shop before I started my own thing. And same thing happened. It was burping out, and they were on the freeway, and people were yelling at them, and they pulled over and got the fire out and had to pull all the exhaust brackets off and shields and clean everything and it's just a big mess.
Jimmy Purdy [00:14:52]:
Nightmare. Yeah. Nothing you can really do to avoid it. That was like the nature of those beasts, right? Unless you go through the pump and you drill out the drain back and you do all the upgrades. I don't know, call them upgrades, just corrections. And I think it's the difference between someone, like, rebuilding it and rebuilding it. I'm sure engine builders go through the same thing where, oh, I rebuilt this engine. It's like you did.
Jimmy Purdy [00:15:19]:
What'd you do to it? Oh, I put bearings in and rings and a new head gaskets. It's like, what? You didn't build it? And it's like the same with transmissions, right? You get these backyard builders that are going through them, throwing frictions and rubbers at them. It's like leaving all the same thrust washers, leaving all the same bushings. Oh, I build transmissions like you do. Did you do any of the upgrades that it needs? And it's like the cost, right? So then someone comes in and they think that's the standard it should be X amount, because that's what I got, what I was charged last time. It's like, well, you're here now because last time didn't last.
Wain Hickman [00:15:54]:
Right? Like bushings. Bushings. I mean, that's a very critical wear area and you have to replace them. Like all my units say, I'll get a full bushing kit.
Jimmy Purdy [00:16:05]:
Yeah. And why would you not? You're that deep and Durabond. You probably use Durabond, right? It's like such an awesome bushing and it reduces the drag. The. Do you have a lathe? And you get in all the custom stuff, too?
Wain Hickman [00:16:21]:
No, I don't have a lathe yet.
Jimmy Purdy [00:16:24]:
I don't either. Yeah. It's one thing because you get into the. You can go like fully rollerize them and machine all the drums, add Torringtons to them, and it's like the next level. But how do you charge that to a client that has a 2003 GMC 2500 that he uses for work? Are you going to build him that unit? It's such an expensive unit to go through, but you know, in the back of your head, that's the way to make this thing last. But then you're also dealing with trying to justify your cost all the time with monster transmission, right? You don't want that. But it's like, that's what they do. They go online and they see this price and it's like, oh, man, why are you charging me four grand to build this when I can get it shipped to my door for 2500? It's like, well, you want to do it twice because that's what it's going to be.
Jimmy Purdy [00:17:18]:
How do you navigate that? When someone comes in and they're trying to justify your price based on what they find online?
Wain Hickman [00:17:24]:
I'll tell them, look at the reviews. And the biggest thing too is I tell them who's going to warranty it when it fails.
Jimmy Purdy [00:17:30]:
Yeah.
Wain Hickman [00:17:30]:
And that's when you get like almost a deer in the headlights look, because they think they'll just, oh, it breaks, they'll send it in, they'll get a new one and off to the races they go. But in all reality, they're going to send it in. So they're going to have to pay for shipping, they're going to deny the warranty. They're going to say, oh, you installed this or you didn't flush the cooler, and then you're out all that money and you don't even have a transmission because they have it, they're holding it hostage. And then at that point you have to pay all this money just to get your stuff back. And then is it going to last again or is it going to fail in so many miles?
Jimmy Purdy [00:18:05]:
Right.
Wain Hickman [00:18:05]:
And I tell everybody, keep your money local. So if there is a problem, you can come right here to me and I can take care of it or whatnot.
Jimmy Purdy [00:18:14]:
Yeah. And also to keep you doing what you do, because sooner rather than later, it's not even going to be an option anymore. You know what I mean? With the industry where it's at and how these transmissions have just become so easy to get the remanufactured one, get the car back on the road. There just isn't this big calling to have builders and it really is, it's just kind of sad. And it's the same thing with engines. To get an engine rebuilt in my area, it's a ten to twelve month wait. I don't have anybody around that can build an engine in six months and you can send it down the street and have it done in two weeks. Ten years ago, you guys ready to do it, but they're so backlogged because they don't have anybody that wants to do it, they won't show up, whatever the issue is with their employees.
Jimmy Purdy [00:19:06]:
So it's just them doing all the work and it's like, it's so hard to find people that are talented enough to build it right. Make it last.
Wain Hickman [00:19:15]:
No, everybody wants that quick money. Nobody has pride in it. All my units, I paint all my units so they look nice. You're spending all this money, you want something to look nice, and, I mean, yeah, I'll use a $5 can of spray paint just to make the customer happy, because when they pick it up, they're like, wow, that looks nice. That's my transmission. Yes, it is.
Jimmy Purdy [00:19:43]:
Yeah. It just shows a little bit of pride behind what you're doing. This is what I do. And then training. Right. So you're going to the ATR seminars, you're staying on top of training. It's like you got to constantly evolve. You know what I mean?
Wain Hickman [00:19:56]:
Yeah.
Jimmy Purdy [00:19:56]:
You can't stay behind on that stuff, especially when it comes to the new ones. Ten R's or six R's is like this new evolution of how many gears they can put into a transmission.
Wain Hickman [00:20:06]:
Yeah, I think that's ridiculous. Six is plenty. You don't need ten speeds.
Jimmy Purdy [00:20:13]:
Right?
Wain Hickman [00:20:14]:
Like, I have a neighbor, he has a Dodge truck with that ZF eight speed, and he goes a block and he's already in fifth gear. You don't need to be in fifth gear by the time you just made it a block.
Jimmy Purdy [00:20:30]:
How do you explain how those operate? Because that's another one I get with clients, is a gearbox, is a gearbox. And so you take your one through four, one through six, and it's like each individual gears. Do you have a way of explaining to them, to make them understand that there's not ten gears in there? How do you process that to somebody to make them understand that a lot.
Wain Hickman [00:20:55]:
Of it is, I just tell them a lot of it is computer strategy and just leave it at that.
Jimmy Purdy [00:21:02]:
Yeah. One thing I try to explain is if you have an issue in, say, second gear on, like a 460, you're probably going to eventually end up with a problem in reverse. Right. With the direct drum and all that, having issues. So having that correlation, and I tell my service advisor that too, sometimes. Look, you got to explain to them, just because it's one area of an automatic transit, having an issue doesn't mean that's it. It's going to affect other areas, because everything's working and multiplying with itself. It's just something I always try to explain.
Jimmy Purdy [00:21:38]:
I always like to ask other guys that are in how they present that information, because it's a difficult one to get someone to understand. Like, look, just because third gear is having an issue doesn't mean that's the end of it. 460 is another example. Once you lose that fourth gear, you're eventually going to lose third gear just a matter of time, because they work at the same time. So it's an interesting concept.
Wain Hickman [00:22:06]:
Yeah, I like the people where they're like, oh, can you just fix third gear?
Jimmy Purdy [00:22:10]:
Right, exactly. Yeah, exactly. That's what I mean. It's like, it doesn't work that way. Or reverse, like on a 480 reverse. It's like we're going to pull this whole thing apart, replace the reverse band, then you just want to put a new one and put it back together. Do you do any sort of repairs like that, or you just like, that's off the table too, right?
Wain Hickman [00:22:29]:
Yeah, I don't mess around with that. It bites you in the butt too many times. Every time you try to try to be nice, try to help them out, and it just goes sideways.
Jimmy Purdy [00:22:42]:
Yeah. And you try to do the repair or the valve body work or shift solenoid, and then it's a year later. Hey, so I came in and had this thing rebuilt a year ago.
Wain Hickman [00:22:54]:
Yes, you what now?
Jimmy Purdy [00:22:59]:
And of course, you probably remember each and every one of them because you got your hands on every one of them, but at the same time you're like, hold on a second here. I didn't do that. You got to go back through the report.
Wain Hickman [00:23:11]:
Yeah, you're like, oh, I just did this. That's not a rebuild. I thought you rebuilt it. No. Look at that price. That's not a rebuilt transmission.
Jimmy Purdy [00:23:23]:
So I guess you get the same issues then.
Wain Hickman [00:23:26]:
Oh, yeah. I had a guy, he sent me an email, and he's like, he needed a four L 60. Was it for a 35 or something? And I told him like $2,500. And then he's like, well, I have cash. Or at first he said he can't afford it. And then he says, I have cash. Okay, well, my price is $2,500. That's the price.
Wain Hickman [00:23:52]:
I mean, yes. If you don't have enough, you start saving. And then he comes down to my shop, and he's like, oh, I brought that 460 for you. And I'm like, okay. And he's like, I don't know what you told me on Price. I don't remember. I pulled up to email and told him, oh, I can't afford that. Well, what do you want me to do? Overhead? I got my business.
Wain Hickman [00:24:16]:
It's weird what customers expect from us anymore.
Jimmy Purdy [00:24:18]:
Yeah, you probably get the, you know what? I don't care what it costs, just get it done. And you're like, no, you're going to care what it costs. So I'm going to let you know and then you let me know if you want to do it for that price, right.
Wain Hickman [00:24:34]:
I'll tear a unit down and get a price and then call them and tell them, okay, this is what you're looking at. And then they're like, okay. And they're fine with it. That way. That way you don't tell somebody, oh, well, you owe me five grand. Like, oh, my God, I thought it was going to be like 2500.
Jimmy Purdy [00:24:51]:
Yeah, the expectations, they blow me away, too. And another thing with the tear down, and then you try to expect everything, but there's always something new with hard parts. Get your hand on some hard parts and then you got to find a good used planetary or a good used. Whatever you need. You're going to install that because there is no other option. And it's like, that's not what I want to do. I want to make sure if it's being replaced that it's new. But if you can't find it, do you scrap this whole unit now? Because you need one low reverse planetary and the United States doesn't have any new ones.
Jimmy Purdy [00:25:29]:
So it's like, no, you put a good used one in there. Right. And you sell them that way. But it's like, that sucks because you're trying to provide the best product you can and then you already have five or 6 hours into this damn thing on the tear down and cleanup, it's a tough gig. And then you try to up the price, $50, and it's like the whole world is going to come unglued. I didn't anticipate this. I don't know. And then you don't know what it's going to look like because it doesn't usually drive when they come in.
Jimmy Purdy [00:26:01]:
Right. Yeah. To find all the issues that are in it. Yeah.
Wain Hickman [00:26:10]:
It's a challenging business. From the customers to dealing with transmissions to parts and everything. It's a challenging business.
Jimmy Purdy [00:26:23]:
Yeah. Especially when you're doing everything yourself, for sure.
Wain Hickman [00:26:27]:
And then seeing that group on Facebook, the brotherhood, it's not just me having all these problems, it's everybody all over the country, and they're having the same Problems that we're having over here in Spokane, Washington. And I really like that Brotherhood page just for the knowledge. And you can see what other guys are doing, Too.
Jimmy Purdy [00:26:52]:
Oh, absolutely. Yeah.
Wain Hickman [00:26:53]:
And the stuff you learn on it.
Jimmy Purdy [00:26:56]:
Well, it's just like the ATra seminars, but all year long, the seminars I used to go to, and you'd see all the new products coming out. You'd meet people, see how they do things, and There's a tool, Right? But then there's also a way of getting certain components apart without needing that tool. And there's just a lot of stuff and tips and tricks that you learn. And it's so cool to jump on Facebook, be on this group, and have leaders of the industry, Right? You got Jim Mobley on There. You got Robert on There. IT's like these guys that are one of the leaders of these aftermarket parts, and it's like, hey, I'm having an issue Installing this shift package. And it's like, oh, look, you just flip it. Or, hey, the last couple hundred I've heard didn't have the spring or didn't have that ball, or Let me send you the updated one.
Jimmy Purdy [00:27:43]:
IT's like, oh, my God. Because if you try to look up that stuff online, it's like, you can't find that stuff, Right? When it comes to bowel body work, it's like, that stuff's not available online.
Wain Hickman [00:27:53]:
And Jim and Robert, I mean, those guys, they kick ass on. And Robert comes up to our seminar every year, so I get to chat with him in person, and he's a great guy.
Jimmy Purdy [00:28:04]:
That's cool.
Wain Hickman [00:28:07]:
I'm like, I'm just this one man shop in Spokane, Washington, and I'm talking to the industry. Know all the cool guys, Right?
Jimmy Purdy [00:28:17]:
He's got to get a Jacket from one of these days.
Wain Hickman [00:28:20]:
That'd be cool.
Jimmy Purdy [00:28:20]:
Remember the old jacket, the old trans go jackets, the little wooden nickels that came in the shift kids? What happened to the wooden nickels? I have like six. I'm like, oh, I got. I was so close, and then they stopped doing it.
Wain Hickman [00:28:31]:
Yeah, I think I got four or five In my box somewhere. I'm not getting rid of them. If it ever comes back, I'm getting myself a jacket.
Jimmy Purdy [00:28:41]:
Well, maybe he'll listen to this and he'll send us a jacket. That'd be cool.
Wain Hickman [00:28:44]:
Now, what do you think of ratio tech, what Steve Younger's kid's doing?
Jimmy Purdy [00:28:49]:
Yeah, I have nothing bad about mean. Between that and mean, it's like, seems to be about the same kind of product, but I definitely like some of the little nuances that the ratio text I've been putting in. Yeah, cool stuff. I don't know what the word for it is. It's not as prevalent where trans go. It, of course, makes it more consumer friendly, where you can kind of explain it to your client a little bit more. And they have a way of making it sellable. Right.
Jimmy Purdy [00:29:21]:
It's like a shiny box, and it says, this fixes this, this and that. Where ratio text, you got to kind of know. They don't explain it as well. But I think the product in itself is fantastic.
Wain Hickman [00:29:33]:
Yeah. I like the little ratio tech boxes. For all my four L 60s. For just everyday drivers.
Jimmy Purdy [00:29:39]:
Yeah.
Wain Hickman [00:29:39]:
And they work great.
Jimmy Purdy [00:29:41]:
Yeah. It just encapsulates all those leaky parts in the internals. I've really been more of a sonics guy. I have the little test stand for the vacuum test and the valve bodies. And I usually do a lot of the sheer cure kits with the oring end plugs. And just all their stuff just makes sense to me. As I'm looking through flowcharts. And I'm like, okay, well, if I have a garden, it's like a garden hose that's been hit with a shotgun.
Jimmy Purdy [00:30:06]:
Right. Let me seal all these little holes everywhere. And I feel like sometimes some of the superior products. Where it's just increasing line pressure instead of fixing the leak, they're like, let's just give it more flow. I guess it works either way, but I'd rather just seal everything up. And then that way you can lower your line pressure. And not have to bump line pressure to compensate for the internal leaks.
Wain Hickman [00:30:30]:
Right. Because, I mean, more line pressure, you're going to break more stuff, right?
Jimmy Purdy [00:30:34]:
Yeah. But you're kind of counting on these unmetered leaks on the inside, right? Like the capsules on the 460s that leak on the third gear, and just all the end plugs leak. So if you're kind of basing increasing line pressure to compensate for those unmetered leaks. Yeah. You could boost too much and then break stuff. Or you could do the exact same thing on a different unit and have it work great, because it's so worn out that everything's leaking internally. So it's like, I don't know. And then some people have superior is garbage.
Jimmy Purdy [00:31:03]:
It didn't do anything for me. It's like. It's probably because your shit's, like, completely worn out. Right. If you got a massive hole in your garden hose, it doesn't matter how much you open the valve, it's not going to make it to the end of the hose. I don't know. But on the ratio tech stuff, I feel like they got a good combination of solving some of the leaks. And then still giving you just a little bit of an upgrade to make it work a little better.
Jimmy Purdy [00:31:26]:
Because I've definitely had a few that come in, and you fix all those leaks. And all of a sudden it starts slamming and you're like, well, what's going on here? And then you come to find out someone's got a tuner in it, and they've increased all their line pressures to try to compensate for lazy shifts, which.
Wain Hickman [00:31:46]:
That'S a whole nother topic right there. The tuners, yeah.
Jimmy Purdy [00:31:49]:
Oh my God.
Wain Hickman [00:31:51]:
I've seen more units destroyed by tuners and they're like, oh, I know what I'm doing. It does not need to be at max line pressure. No, you don't know what you're doing?
Jimmy Purdy [00:31:58]:
No, I don't even know what I'm doing when it comes to that stuff. People ask me that all the time, like, no, I don't want anything to do with it because everything shifts like garbage now. Like the ten speeds and the eight speed, they're garbage the way they shift. Like you said, most of them don't even get into fifth or 6th gear. Sometimes 10th is not even used. It's like an 8th gear most of the time it doesn't even get into 10th gear. And they're like, hey, can you make this thing shift better? Like, no, I can't.
Wain Hickman [00:32:24]:
Now, do you do any kind of like the factory programming for tecums and stuff like that? Oh, yeah, I've gotten into that and thAt's about as far as I want to go on the programming.
Jimmy Purdy [00:32:36]:
Yeah, just the necessary stuff you've probably dealt with. On the ten R's, are you having to do shift solenoid strategy? Have you done like valve bodies on those where you change out the solenoids?
Wain Hickman [00:32:48]:
I haven't had one in my shop yet.
Jimmy Purdy [00:32:50]:
Okay. On the six speeds, the six R's, they were doing the same thing where you had to put the shift solenoid strategy in and you would do that and then it wouldn't work. It was garbage. It would hang up in a second, wouldn't upshift. So you would delete the factory programming and just leave it alone. And then all of a sudden it would work fine. And it was like, was it the six F's that had the solenoid strategy? If you did like a replacement on it, you had to put that solenoid strategy into the PCM to get it to work. And if you didn't do that, it did not shift at all.
Jimmy Purdy [00:33:28]:
It seemed like it was very critical on the six R's and the ten R's to do the same thing. But now it's come to find out, like, oh, just leave it alone. Just put the valve body in the solenoids and don't even change nothing. And it works. It's like, how does that weird. A weird thing when it comes to the computer tuning stuff? I don't know.
Wain Hickman [00:33:46]:
Yeah. And then that little tag you get with the Ford valve, you know, you look at it sideways, and the numbers get wiped. Know they're throwing it right in the oil now. And I was at my buddy's shop, and he's like, I was going to program something for him, and he's like, well, this is what I got left of the tag. And I'm just like, oh, man, what do I do to here?
Jimmy Purdy [00:34:08]:
It's funny you said that. Oh, my God. I had one in particular. Where was it a used one we were putting in? I don't remember what it was, but we installed the trans, and of course, somehow there's a miscommunication as far as needing that strategy number. And it's on the valve body, right, but it's on the side cover, so it's not super accessible. But they make that tag on top. And I remember looking down with a flashlight, and I'm like, oh, it's a little dirty. So I went to wipe the dirt off, and all the numbers just wiped right off.
Jimmy Purdy [00:34:39]:
I was like, oh, no, we got to pull the stupid side cover. Now. There goes 3 hours of my life. Are you kidding me? That was so funny. So it's like I'd barely make it out. I'm like, oh. And I just reached down and wipe it. And just wipe the numbers right off that tag.
Jimmy Purdy [00:34:54]:
They couldn't etch it in or something.
Wain Hickman [00:34:56]:
Yeah, I think they should etch it just so you can wipe it off. And it would make our lives a lot easier.
Jimmy Purdy [00:35:02]:
You would think so. But again, Kemp is stupid. Some of that stuff just doesn't make any damn sense to me. But we always figure out another way around it.
Wain Hickman [00:35:14]:
Oh, yeah, we got to come and adapt to all this stuff.
Jimmy Purdy [00:35:20]:
Yeah, speaking of adapting, so, how did your journey get into with the transmissions?
Wain Hickman [00:35:27]:
I was 19 years old. I was cooking at a restaurant, and I asked the boss for a raise. I was making $10 an hour, and I wanted a dollar raise, and he said no and made me mad. So I looked in the newspaper, and when you actually still did that? Looked in the newspaper and seen a mechanics helper at AMCO in Santa Rosa, California. And I was like, I could do that. And got hired on with another guy. And they had us paint this whole AMCO before we even touched a car. Like the boss would come out, he'd be like, yeah, why don't you paint over here? Paint this wall? We'd paint it real quick, bust it out.
Wain Hickman [00:36:03]:
He'd come out and he'd be like, wow, that looks really good. He'd look around, he'd be like, why don't you paint a little bit further down? And we'd paint that real quick. And, wow, man, you guys are killing it. Yeah. Why don't you just paint a little further down? And then two weeks later, then we finally got to touch a car. And I know why he did it now that I'm older, because if you can't take the time to paint something, how can you work on a transmission?
Jimmy Purdy [00:36:30]:
Yeah, take a little pride in what you're doing. Or maybe he was just trying to get his building painted for probably $15 an hour.
Wain Hickman [00:36:41]:
I think I was making like $1213 an hour then.
Jimmy Purdy [00:36:45]:
Yeah, the cheap paint job for him for sure.
Wain Hickman [00:36:48]:
And I just started seeing what the guys are doing. I'm like, well, I want to do that. Pull them out and put them in. And he's like, all right. And figured that out. Okay, well, I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do that.
Wain Hickman [00:36:59]:
And just kept busting my ass and busting my ass.
Jimmy Purdy [00:37:02]:
So how did that evolution work out? You, you started on the line as.
Wain Hickman [00:37:06]:
Far as just RNR, RNR services, stuff like that.
Jimmy Purdy [00:37:11]:
Okay.
Wain Hickman [00:37:11]:
And then every once in a while, get to tear down something. And back in those days, if you didn't like where you were working, call the shop down the road, hey, I need a job.
Jimmy Purdy [00:37:24]:
Okay.
Wain Hickman [00:37:25]:
Bring your tools over and you just go to a different shop if you didn't like where you were and just try to learn from as much as I could from everybody that I worked with.
Jimmy Purdy [00:37:36]:
So was a lot of the time spent at the AMCO or did you kind of bounce around for a lot?
Wain Hickman [00:37:41]:
I bounced around for a couple of years.
Jimmy Purdy [00:37:43]:
Okay.
Wain Hickman [00:37:45]:
And then it really got serious for me when I started at another shop, norcal transmission in Santa Rosa, and he kind know just showed me the right way of doing everything and getting me into the seminars and just learning.
Jimmy Purdy [00:38:05]:
So the pivotal kind of, like, turning point was getting more technical with it.
Wain Hickman [00:38:12]:
Yeah.
Jimmy Purdy [00:38:12]:
Okay. I remember one of the first ones I've, and I honestly don't know how some of the early ones, I don't know even call it a build. I reassembled some of the very early transmissions that I reassembled. I still don't understand how those things worked as far as I can't believe I actually went into a vehicle and left and didn't come back because I had no business being on the bench doing that. Right. And I kind of had similar upbringing where it was like, hey, I just want to do that. I can do that. Sure.
Jimmy Purdy [00:38:44]:
Here you go. Here it is. Here's the bench. As long as you got no leftover parts, it should be know I was know. And it's like Internet wasn't a big thing. So the old ASTG manual, and you're just kind of flipping it page by page, know, just reading and doing it exactly the way it is. It's like, oh, my God, those books are great referEnce, but there's a lot of stuff that they're missing. Right, right.
Jimmy Purdy [00:39:11]:
Yeah. I just remember the first couple of ones putting together and I still to this day think about, like, how did I even pull that off?
Wain Hickman [00:39:18]:
Yeah, I fully understand what you mean by that. Back in some of my earlier days, it was like, man, how did that work? I just blame it on luck.
Jimmy Purdy [00:39:28]:
Yeah. And the amount of problems you've probably come across now. And it's like, how come I feel like I never had those problems when I first started, either I ignored them or didn't think about it. But it's like I do everything as meticulous as possible now and I actually do the research and I still have these issues. These freaking things leak. What the hell is with all the front covers leaking and the front seals leaking? It's like, I don't feel like I ever had that issue 1015 years ago. You put it in, it would take off and it's like, come back in a year. Oh, everything looks good.
Jimmy Purdy [00:39:58]:
Cool. I don't know. It's such a strange thing, but maybe just the parts are crap now. What's that?
Wain Hickman [00:40:06]:
I think the parts were a lot better back. Mean, just. It seems like anything anymore is just going downhill.
Jimmy Purdy [00:40:14]:
Yeah, the rubber. I don't mean you probably see all the stuff on Amazon now. And it's like, yeah, you can get the same part from Amazon and it comes and it's got a trans Star freaking receipt in the box. And you're like, what? And you look at the price and it's like twice as much on your trans star from your account versus off Amazon. You're like, what? And it's the same exact box. But is it the same part?
Wain Hickman [00:40:40]:
I don't kind of. I'm kind of iffy on that, too, because you look at some of this stuff and there's some of the names on Amazon, you're like, what company is know? And then whatever it is, you get it and it comes in a box.
Jimmy Purdy [00:40:57]:
Yeah. Yep. With a little receipt. Uh huh.
Wain Hickman [00:41:03]:
You tell your sales guy about, hey, dude, it's this much on Amazon. He's like, I can't do anything about.
Jimmy Purdy [00:41:12]:
I mean, yeah, we talk about transstar for a long time is too busy trying to sell vanilla Ice and their AC compressors.
Wain Hickman [00:41:19]:
Oh, yeah. That is the greatest idea.
Jimmy Purdy [00:41:25]:
Why are you selling AC compressors? Is there something we should know? And it's like, I'm sure a lot of transmission shops are like, do I buy an AC machine now? Is that like the new what I need to do?
Wain Hickman [00:41:37]:
Well, the one up here, they're trying to push all this AC stuff, but they have none there.
Jimmy Purdy [00:41:44]:
Oh, they don't even have the parts. Uh uh.
Wain Hickman [00:41:46]:
I mean, you need any AC stuff, you call O'Reilly's or know that's where you get your AC parts. You don't call O'Reilly's for transmission parts.
Jimmy Purdy [00:41:57]:
Right. It's weird. It's even stranger that they got ice. Ice, baby. Trying to promote it.
Wain Hickman [00:42:03]:
Right.
Jimmy Purdy [00:42:04]:
You see vanilla ice on the website. I get it. But, oh, my is, I don't know, the best or the worst marketing ploy I've ever seen. Use vanilla ice to sell an AC compressor.
Wain Hickman [00:42:19]:
I don't know. I think they should just stick to what they know and just transmission stuff.
Jimmy Purdy [00:42:23]:
Yeah. And get really good with that, maybe. Yeah, that'd be nice.
Wain Hickman [00:42:26]:
And maybe stick with or get some kind of quality control.
Jimmy Purdy [00:42:30]:
Yeah.
Wain Hickman [00:42:32]:
I just got a used pump from them the other day, and I've learned my lesson. And I pull all my pumps and everything apart from Transstar. Even when I'm just building a unit, I pull all the valves out and there was metal all through this thing. It was a suicide mission right from the start.
Jimmy Purdy [00:42:50]:
Wow. Yeah, I've seen them too, with the little cleaning beads. Are you close to East Fork?
Wain Hickman [00:42:57]:
East Fork.
Jimmy Purdy [00:42:59]:
East Fork transmission parts. I know they're up there next in Washington somewhere.
Wain Hickman [00:43:03]:
I think he's on the other side of the state.
Jimmy Purdy [00:43:05]:
Okay.
Wain Hickman [00:43:06]:
And I haven't used them. I use Jerry over at perfection in.
Jimmy Purdy [00:43:10]:
Okay, okay. I think I've used him before.
Wain Hickman [00:43:14]:
He has some pretty nice parts and he has pretty good prices.
Jimmy Purdy [00:43:19]:
Okay. He occasionally use East Fork when it comes to use stuff, but they put all their stuff in a bead blaster and I found the little beads stuck in passages. So, yeah, I've been burned on that one before. I'm like, what? And you look in there and it's plugged up with one of the little white beads. Like, you got to pull them apart and clean them up. Just because it's used doesn't mean anybody is even looking at it. You just pull this out through it in the washer, then put it in a bag. All right, cool.
Jimmy Purdy [00:43:50]:
I'll take care of it then.
Wain Hickman [00:43:52]:
Yeah, I mean, that's just what we have to do anymore. You have to. Yeah, like valve bodies on just any of my builds, I pull every valve out and wash the valve body in the parts washer after that.
Jimmy Purdy [00:44:08]:
Absolutely.
Wain Hickman [00:44:09]:
The stuff you get out of there, it's like none other, right. I see guys, they'll just take the solvent, rush it through solvent and blow it off. Oh, yeah, that's clean. No valves are sticking.
Jimmy Purdy [00:44:20]:
That's how I was taught.
Wain Hickman [00:44:21]:
That's how I was taught, too.
Jimmy Purdy [00:44:23]:
With a little pick and you get a little pick and you just spring every valve. Like, oh, they're all moving. We're good to go. No, I take them out, buddy. Brush them, clean them, hone them, and then vacuum test them. All right, now we're good. I mean, this is a turbo 350 then. But then it's only like three valves anyway.
Jimmy Purdy [00:44:39]:
So it's like, how much time are you really going to spend, like, pulling? Just do it. Just clean it. They're paying for it.
Wain Hickman [00:44:46]:
It's a pain in the butt, but I think you build a lot better of a unit if you do it that way.
Jimmy Purdy [00:44:51]:
Well, that end, you have a much better chance of it actually working, right. I mean, how many times in your early years when you did something like that and had maybe the senior guy do it, and then you put it in and you got some sort of weird, sticky governor, right? And it's like, oh, let's just rattle the governor. He's throwing it in part going down there. It was like, oh, we got to pull the valve body. We got a sticky valve. You didn't clean all this stuff, like when you had it on the bench. Now I got to stand underneath. I hate pulling valve bodies.
Jimmy Purdy [00:45:17]:
I freaking hate it, right? It's like the most miserable Chinese torturous thing I've ever dealt with is like fluid dripping all over your face, all over my beard. It's like, this is awful.
Wain Hickman [00:45:28]:
Or what about going down your arm.
Jimmy Purdy [00:45:30]:
Your whole nose going down?
Wain Hickman [00:45:32]:
You're like, please stop. And they're always hotter than hell, right?
Jimmy Purdy [00:45:38]:
Because you got to get it out that day. And you just drove it up and down the highway like, oh, it's got no lockup or it's got a delay or whatever, and it's like, oh, it's probably got a sticky valve. It's like, oh, why don't you just clean it and do it? The first time I even got to the point where I just started replacing valve bodies. There was a couple of years back when I was going through a lot of them, and it was like, almost like, I can get a new valve body for like $150, or I can spend the time to pull it apart and clean everything. I was just like, no, new valve body, new valve body, depending what the unit was. But it was like a time where I was like, I just would order a valve body with the overhaul kit, just replace it, especially if it was catastrophically bad, like got really hot or a lot of metal. It's not even worth going through it. I'm not even going to deal with it.
Wain Hickman [00:46:19]:
Right. That's like the old a four LDS pulling those valve bodies apart.
Jimmy Purdy [00:46:23]:
Exactly. Or the five R 55s. Like, some of those valves just, you couldn't get them out, just replace it. I had a Toyota a 340 is the same thing. It was like, I'm going through it and I could not get one of the end plugs out, and it was one of the planetaries blew up. So it was metal everywhere. I'm like, I can't get it. And fighting this thing for like a day and a half.
Jimmy Purdy [00:46:44]:
I was like, got heat on. I got a torch going. I'm like, I'm manufacturing tools to try to get down into the passages to pop that plug out. I'm like, what is, and then I'm like, what's this valve body? And I think it was like $120 for a good use valve body. I was like, oh, my God, I spent so much time trying to fix this one when I was like, oh, yeah, we got those. It's like $120 for a good used one. I was like, oh, yeah, just go ahead and send that, please.
Wain Hickman [00:47:12]:
And by that point, you're just like, man, I don't care, just send me one.
Jimmy Purdy [00:47:15]:
Oh, yeah. If it was $500, I was so saying. I was like, it can't be more than $500 for a new one. Let me just call and see. But it's a Toyota a 340s. You're like, I don't know. You know how many changes they made to those things. It's like, there's no way they're going to have the one.
Jimmy Purdy [00:47:27]:
I need so many different casting numbers. It was like, let me just call and see $500. I think I'm going to do that. And it's like 120. Like, oh, I should have just called.
Wain Hickman [00:47:40]:
And a lot of times, too. Sometimes the dealers have good prices on valve bodies. Brand new.
Jimmy Purdy [00:47:47]:
Yeah, that's true. You never know. They got a lot of them in stock, like the Tekums for the six L's, the Subaru, the TR 690, is that right?
Wain Hickman [00:48:02]:
Yeah, that CVT where.
Jimmy Purdy [00:48:03]:
The CVT one where the solenoid fails and you have to replace the whole freaking valve body because they didn't make individual solenoids for it.
Wain Hickman [00:48:10]:
Yeah. That's ridiculous. They should have some kind of replacement parts for that if it's that common of an issue.
Jimmy Purdy [00:48:16]:
Right. But you've probably seen the ones on Amazon or whatever. It's like you can get the individual solenoid. It's like, I'm not even going to. You got to solder it, desolder it, and resolder the new solenoid on. You call the Subaru dealer and it's like, in stock for $800. Yeah. Just replace the whole valve body.
Jimmy Purdy [00:48:32]:
I'm not going to play around with trying to resolder a new solenoid on just another terrible design. Why did you solder all your solenoids onto one circuit board? I don't know. Bad engineering.
Wain Hickman [00:48:47]:
I think if the engineers had to work on this stuff, it would be a lot different.
Jimmy Purdy [00:48:52]:
Yeah, well, there's so many regulations and mandates that they're trying to meet when it comes, it's like the ten speed. The only reason why they had the ten speeds so they could drop their mile per gallon. 2 miles.
Wain Hickman [00:49:02]:
Right.
Jimmy Purdy [00:49:03]:
You reengineered an entire transmission just so you could save two to 5 miles to the gallon. But the tax break, they got on that for their fleet fuel economy was like, probably in the millions. So it's like, yeah, I guess it does make sense when you look at it that way. But it's still pain in the ass for the rest of us that are trying to fix the stupid things. Right?
Wain Hickman [00:49:21]:
Yeah. They're not making it easy for us anymore.
Jimmy Purdy [00:49:24]:
Yeah. Well, that's not their goal anymore. That's definitely out the window.
Wain Hickman [00:49:27]:
Yeah.
Jimmy Purdy [00:49:28]:
How do I save the most money on building these million cars?
Wain Hickman [00:49:32]:
Yes. It all comes back to money.
Jimmy Purdy [00:49:35]:
Follow the money. So moving on from you starting out at AMCO and kind of working through what was the leap for you not sticking it out at a shopping building and wanting to open your own?
Wain Hickman [00:49:50]:
I got. I went to the seminar, the Las Vegas seminar, and it was a place here in town that we all went and we got fired on a city bus at 02:00 in the morning. And I kind of just lost respect for the boss. I just, I was like, why am I making him all this money when I could do it myself? And that's when I was doing a bunch of side work out of my shop at home. And I was like, well, I don't need to do it here. I can do it for myself and work for myself.
Jimmy Purdy [00:50:21]:
Okay, so you had kind of a little clientele, your base you were building up?
Wain Hickman [00:50:24]:
Yeah.
Jimmy Purdy [00:50:25]:
Okay. What was the 02:00 a.m. Was it like a text message? He text everybody and said, you guys are done?
Wain Hickman [00:50:33]:
No, we're in Las Vegas at the seminar and I think we're on Fremont street having a fun time, drinking and just hanging out. And then we all got on the bus and he just talking bad to us, me and the other builder, and fired us right there. And we almost got in a big fight on the city bus in Las Vegas. And me and the other builder, my coworker, we just said, we'll just get off the. And, well, we didn't realize we're like two and a half miles from the motel, so we had to walk two and a half miles to get back to our motel. And after that, it was just like, you're going to fire us like that?
Jimmy Purdy [00:51:16]:
That's quite an exit. That was in person. That's crazy.
Wain Hickman [00:51:21]:
Yeah, we're drinking and having fun, but you don't fire your guys like that.
Jimmy Purdy [00:51:27]:
Yeah. Sounds like maybe there were some other issues maybe going on beyond just the one trip, maybe. Or was that kind of just totally out of the blue?
Wain Hickman [00:51:39]:
He's real hot headed. Some people call it Short guy syndrome.
Jimmy Purdy [00:51:44]:
Okay.
Wain Hickman [00:51:45]:
But he's the kind of guy that if it's not his idea, it's not a good idea. I learned a bunch of stuff from him, but don't be a dick, I guess.
Jimmy Purdy [00:51:56]:
Yeah, no, that's a great point to bring up because that's kind of like the problem with the industry right now is bad owners ultimately, and it's not really bad owners, but just being a bad leader. Right. And it's hard because I think in the transmission especially field, it's such a small cluster of people that I think a lot of us were brought up in that mentality and think that's normal, that's how it's supposed to be. And if something's going right, you yell at your guys and it's like, it's just a different breed of auto technicians altogether, you know what I mean? Yeah. And I'm sure there's a lot of other mechanics out there and auto technicians that were brought in the same way, but I think as a whole, the bigger percentage of that was bred into the transmission field.
Wain Hickman [00:52:47]:
Right.
Jimmy Purdy [00:52:48]:
I don't think there's a lot of transmission, like specialty shops where everyone's like, or maybe not now, but back then it was like, everyone's okay. It's pretty normal in a transmission shop to see like three foot extensions getting thrown across the shop. It's a pretty standard operating procedure, I feel like, and it is. But that really bred us and our generation growing up now, is trying to get out of that and say that, well, maybe that wasn't the right way. And you kind of felt like your only option now was do it for myself or work for this guy.
Wain Hickman [00:53:26]:
Yeah. You're not going to talk down to me or anything like that. It's just I'm not going to stand for it.
Jimmy Purdy [00:53:32]:
Right. But I mean, that was like my mentality, too. I'm either going to keep working here or I'm going to do it for myself. And I didn't even really fathom any sort of middle ground. Like, oh, maybe I'll find a good shop that someone respects me at. No, you just assume this is just how it is. And unless I do it for myself, I'm going to have to keep dealing with people like this.
Wain Hickman [00:53:53]:
Right. And owners don't want to pay either.
Jimmy Purdy [00:53:56]:
Right.
Wain Hickman [00:53:57]:
They want to make all this money, but they don't want to pay you. Because if you think about the tecHnician, that's who's making the owners the money. If you got a guy that can do a ten hour job, say he can do it in seven, the owner is making that extra 3 hours.
Jimmy Purdy [00:54:13]:
Yeah.
Wain Hickman [00:54:14]:
And if somebody's making you the money like that, reward them, be nice to them.
Jimmy Purdy [00:54:20]:
And that moves into Ownership and Leadership and being able to obviously attract that talent that can do that job like that. And then you have the technicians that come in that want that, pay that want that. Hey, why don't I get $100,000 a year? It's like, well, because every job I give you, you're taking the full 7 hours, you're taking 8 hours, you're taking 9 hours. And then on the client side, you have to make sure that your prices aren't just being inflated because your technician is dragging ass. When you finally find the guy that's doing the work, you got to be able to very quickly adapt to that and say, hey, look, I'm going to be able to afford to pay you this because you're producing this kind of work. And it's a lot. I mean, it's constantly trying to learn and evolve with the different people and having a price that's justifiable to your area and then also to the work that you provide without, like, well, I'll pay my guy $50 an hour, but he's taking 10 hours consistently on a seven hour job. Probably not going to last, right?
Wain Hickman [00:55:25]:
No, you got to be able to beat the book time. And most of the time, the book time is like, you get this much hours for this?
Jimmy Purdy [00:55:33]:
Yeah. When it comes to your so being transmission specialist, do you do book time when it comes to RNR and trans services or how do you have that set up?
Wain Hickman [00:55:45]:
Trans services? I just have a set price. And then for RNR, it's whatever the book calls for.
Jimmy Purdy [00:55:50]:
Okay. Yeah. Because that was another thing that changed pretty dramatically. It was like everything that came in, it was 3 hours if it was two wheel drive, 4 hours if it was four wheel drive for a pull out and then reinstall, it was like standard. Now, you look at some of these times, and it's like up to 12 hours of an R and R, and it's like, what, 12 hours to pull a tranSmission? If that's what the book is calling for, then it's like, well, and I'm not doing it. So it's like, I'm just trying to sell the job and be fair to the technician. I don't know what's coming up. I think the last one I looked at was like a 14 F 250 diesel with a six R in it.
Jimmy Purdy [00:56:32]:
And it's like, well, I've never pulled that unit out before, so I got to just agree with what the book says. But then you look at the price given to the client, it's like, holy moly. A lot of money just to pull the trans out to do a rear main seal leak or pull it out to put a converter in it or whatever it is. It's like, damn, if that's what it calls for, though. And then they say, well, you're the transmission specialist. You should be able to beat book time, no problem. But we're not an F 250 diesel specialist shop. I get it.
Jimmy Purdy [00:57:06]:
We should be the transmission specialist. But it's like, also, hey, it takes what it takes, but then do we.
Wain Hickman [00:57:13]:
Get to charge them more if it takes us longer?
Jimmy Purdy [00:57:15]:
Right, exactly. Yeah. How hard is that? I mean, we touched on that in the beginning. You try to compensate for everything on a rebuild, and then you need one extra part, and all of a sudden it's like, I don't want to do it. What do you mean, you don't want to do it? It's $80 more, right? Oh, I found one on monster, and it's 25, and now yours is the same cost. I'll just buy the one off a monster. I'll just buy the one on the Internet.
Wain Hickman [00:57:39]:
Yeah, but I'm not afraid to fire a customer either.
Jimmy Purdy [00:57:46]:
Yeah, that's a good point.
Wain Hickman [00:57:50]:
They think, oh, I'm the customer. I can walk all over you. But no, you got to be nice to people.
Jimmy Purdy [00:57:57]:
Yeah, that's true.
Wain Hickman [00:57:57]:
And they need to be nice to us, too.
Jimmy Purdy [00:57:59]:
Yeah, it's few and far between, but we really seem to sink our teeth into those negative experiences.
Wain Hickman [00:58:09]:
Those negative experiences cost us money.
Jimmy Purdy [00:58:11]:
Yeah, that's very true.
Wain Hickman [00:58:13]:
And I'm a business owner. I'm poor.
Jimmy Purdy [00:58:18]:
Too. Rent is still due on the first every day, every month. So it's like, yeah, you can't just like, well, sorry this didn't go well for you. And I always have the problem because it's just a vehicle. IT's just your vehicle. No reason to get upset about it. Yeah, it broke your heart because it left you on the side of the road, but there's no reason to get upset right now. No one's.
Jimmy Purdy [00:58:42]:
And it's strange, the emotional attachment people have to their vehicle.
Wain Hickman [00:58:46]:
I've had people call me and, oh, how's, um. There's no Winnie here. Oh, you got my motorhome. Yeah, we have a motorhome. Yeah, we call it.
Jimmy Purdy [00:59:02]:
Yeah.
Wain Hickman [00:59:03]:
Naming a car. I mean, I got a white Chevy. That's my truck's name. White Chevy. Because it's a white Chevy.
Jimmy Purdy [00:59:11]:
That's what it.
Wain Hickman [00:59:13]:
I mean, if it was a purple Chevy, I'd be like, oh, your name's Purple Chevy.
Jimmy Purdy [00:59:17]:
That's what it is. Don't even need to know the year. Yeah, that's just what it mean. It's important, though, to kind of profile the clients a little bit, too, though. I mean, you know, if they name their motorhome, they're probably going to take whatever it costs to get it fixed. So you can get the nice stuff. You can take your time, you can make sure, because it's just the worst feeling in the world to do a tear down like that. And then they don't want to proceed with it.
Jimmy Purdy [00:59:48]:
I'm already not going to get paid. Now I got to reassemble this unit because you can't just give them a box of parts. It's a tough gig, man. Have you ever thought about moving into the doing remand swaps? Have you gotten busy enough to say, maybe I'll start feeding that into my repertoire or I'm just stick to building on certain units.
Wain Hickman [01:00:11]:
I think every unit has. You got to do the job for what they're intending it for. If it's like say a landscape company, it's a bunch of young kids just beating the hell out of the trucks because they're not theirs. Yeah, I'll throw a remand in that thing all day long.
Jimmy Purdy [01:00:25]:
Okay.
Wain Hickman [01:00:26]:
So that way the warranty is not coming after me for when the kids out there like snow plowing, that's for sure. Because nobody can come to a complete stop. And it breaks bands. And you ask them, did you come to a stop? Oh yeah, I do that every time. Well, here's your band in three pieces. No, you don't do it every time, right? And stuff like that. I'd Do a remand, but other than that I'd build it.
Jimmy Purdy [01:00:52]:
Okay.
Wain Hickman [01:00:53]:
Unless I can't get parts.
Jimmy Purdy [01:00:54]:
I was just thinking like the 62 Te units. I feel like you just can't keep those in these damn grand caravans. Maybe it's just me or maybe just our area, but I feel like those six speeds and the journeys and the Grand Caravans, the front wheel drive units are just like the biggest pile of garbage. Nothing but problems out of them, right?
Wain Hickman [01:01:15]:
I mean, I've built a few of them and haven't seen them, knock on wood.
Jimmy Purdy [01:01:20]:
Okay. But there's no unit that you've seen that's, in your opinion, kind of unrepairable or not even worth the headache because it's just going to constantly come back. Kind of like the five R 110s when they first came out for the Fords, the five speeds, I feel like those had a pretty bad rap for the beginning until they got some good parts for them.
Wain Hickman [01:01:41]:
Yeah, they did. And on those, I haven't bought the reamer yet, which I think I'm going to buy the reamer instead of buying a valve body.
Jimmy Purdy [01:01:48]:
Okay.
Wain Hickman [01:01:49]:
Because the manual valve, it always wears. And I just buy a valve body from Sonics and build a unit and call it.
Jimmy Purdy [01:01:59]:
So you found. You found kind of the issues and then just move past them instead of just like avoiding to.
Wain Hickman [01:02:08]:
Because I mean, if it's in your shop, you have to fix.
Jimmy Purdy [01:02:10]:
Right? Right.
Wain Hickman [01:02:11]:
And you got to do it where it's going to make you money and make a happy customer.
Jimmy Purdy [01:02:17]:
Yeah. And then make sure it doesn't come back.
Wain Hickman [01:02:19]:
Yeah, and doesn't come back.
Jimmy Purdy [01:02:22]:
What's your warranty process when it comes to the rebuilds?
Wain Hickman [01:02:25]:
1212.
Jimmy Purdy [01:02:26]:
Okay. Do you have that conversation where some of the remands come with that three year unlimited mileage warranty? Do you ever go down that path with the client or are you just like, hey, I'm going to rebuild it, I'll stand behind it. And then obviously you probably stand behind it beyond that as well, right?
Wain Hickman [01:02:46]:
Oh, yeah. I mean, every unit that comes out of here, it's my name on it, and I don't want to. Transmission guys, we have the. Oh, they're crooks. They're this, they're that. And I just. I don't want my name associated like that.
Jimmy Purdy [01:03:00]:
Right. Yeah, it's hard, man. And that's like you said, us as auto technicians, we're just liars and cheats, and we're just trying to rip everybody off as it is. Right. But then the bottom of the barrel is the transmission guys, right? Because we're doing the hocus pocus that no one knows anything about. And so, like you said, then we're really cheats and we're really liars and we're just patching it to make it work. And it's just weird how that stigma and it's like the more technical you get into the vehicles, in my opinion. I've always felt like the transmissions was like the pinnacle of auto repair.
Jimmy Purdy [01:03:36]:
Right. If you're going to get into the auto industry and you want to learn the most technical part of it, learn how to rebuild an automatic transmission, right. I just feel like that's where it was, and that was always my goal. I want to learn the most, and I want to get down to the very bottom.
Wain Hickman [01:03:53]:
Right? No, it's kept me interested for the past 25 years, and it still interests me today.
Jimmy Purdy [01:03:59]:
Yeah. Cool feeling when you get it done and go drive it.
Wain Hickman [01:04:03]:
Yeah. That's a great feeling. You drive it, you're like, boom, I made it shift like this. Or if you see a truck that you built the transmission in, you're like, that's my transmission right there. You get a sense of pride and just makes you happy. Well, it does for me.
Jimmy Purdy [01:04:19]:
Oh, yeah. Until you see him pulling like a 45 foot motorhome behind him. Like, he told me he doesn't tow with that truck.
Wain Hickman [01:04:27]:
I had a guy, I did a four L 60 for quite a few years ago, and he's showing me all this stuff he tows and showed me a picture of him towing this big fire truck. He's like, oh, by the way, what's the warranty? I laughed and I said, there is none. He's all, what do you mean? I'm like, dude, you're towing this with a half ton truck? No, there is no warranty.
Jimmy Purdy [01:04:52]:
You just voided it. It is now, Nolan, Void. You should have had him send it. Oh, that's awesome, man. Send me that picture. Okay, now your warranty is void. I got your picture real quick, like, oh, I got it. No more.
Jimmy Purdy [01:05:10]:
Do you do performance stuff, too?
Wain Hickman [01:05:12]:
I do some.
Jimmy Purdy [01:05:13]:
Okay. Yeah, the performance is. It's like never fails. I tell them there's no warranty on this, right? And it's like, never fails. Two years later. Oh, hey, it's got this leak. All right, bring it in. As you said, you're just like, just.
Jimmy Purdy [01:05:30]:
I'll take care of it. It shouldn't be leaking, but it's like, what have you been doing with this thing?
Wain Hickman [01:05:36]:
Right?
Jimmy Purdy [01:05:37]:
I don't know. It's a tough gig to try to stand behind the performance stuff, too, because we started the whole conversation with all the different stages, and then everyone comes in, hey, I was looking online, and it's like the stage three. Could you build something like this? And you look through the spec sheet of what they're putting into it, you're like, I don't know how they're justifying that stage three, but I'll give you all those parts and then some. How about that?
Wain Hickman [01:06:04]:
Right? I've seen some of the stages, and it's like, well, okay, that's standard. That's standard. That's standard. That's standard. That's standard. They're putting a billet input on there. That's why I hate the stages.
Jimmy Purdy [01:06:18]:
Yeah. I think 90% of the time, when you look through those spec sheets on the builds, it's like, I put all that stuff in everything. Like you said, that's just standard. How is that like an upgrade? That's what it's supposed to have. And then he said, then they'll throw something billet in there. So it says billet. How does that justify the cost?
Wain Hickman [01:06:39]:
Yeah, and then once it says billet, they're like, oh, my God, it's unbreakable. No, it still breaks.
Jimmy Purdy [01:06:46]:
I've always said sometimes you want to leave something kind of weak, because if you keep pushing that failure point down the line, eventually something's really expensive is going to break. You can break an input shaft. Oh, that's easy. That's not that bad. But you start pushing that. Put a billet input, billet forward, billet direct, and then all of a sudden it gets down to, and if your planetary explodes, you're probably going to wipe your case out. And that's like, now you got to get a case. So I always like with the performancE, when they start talking about billet components, it's like you're just pushing the failure point to a more expensive location.
Wain Hickman [01:07:24]:
Yeah, that's a good way to think about it.
Jimmy Purdy [01:07:27]:
Just leave something weak in the middle so it's an easy fix when it breaks.
Wain Hickman [01:07:31]:
And none of those performance guys, they don't want to pay. They'll pay ten grand, 1015 grand for their motor. But you sell them a transmission with all good parts in there, they're like, oh, that's way too expensive.
Jimmy Purdy [01:07:43]:
Yeah, like $8,000.48 re. Yeah, that's about right. But then they'll go to the tuner and spend $1,000 at the tuner too.
Wain Hickman [01:07:54]:
Right. And it seems like the hot Rod guys don't want to pay, but the diesel kids and the guys with the diesels, they're like, okay, here you go. No problem.
Jimmy Purdy [01:08:03]:
Yeah, that's true. Yeah, it's interesting. I don't know if we'll ever get it figured out, but.
Wain Hickman [01:08:13]:
I hope so.
Jimmy Purdy [01:08:15]:
Well, on the final notes here, how is the future of what you do? Are you looking at getting a builder in? Are you looking at moving forward that way? Or do you want to keep it just a one man van?
Wain Hickman [01:08:30]:
I definitely want some help in here, but I don't know how far I want to expand. I don't know if I just want more of a headache, more of a misery, or just keep it kind of small and just have a decent, comfortable living.
Jimmy Purdy [01:08:44]:
Yeah.
Wain Hickman [01:08:47]:
I don't want 20 lifts and all that because that's more rent, more money coming out of your pocket. I think I just want it maybe like three lifts and an RNR guy and a builder.
Jimmy Purdy [01:09:02]:
So you're comfortable with bringing something then to build the units that you are building now?
Wain Hickman [01:09:08]:
Yeah.
Jimmy Purdy [01:09:08]:
Okay. That's hard for me to think about. That's a lot of responsibility to be handed off and it's like, I don't know. But, yeah, that's a good vision to have because it's really hard to wrap my mind around having someone build and being able to trust them, what they're doing.
Wain Hickman [01:09:27]:
Right. I mean, you fully got to see what they're doing, how they build, because everybody has their own building style, right? And you just got to see if it's going to work for if it's going to work or if it's not going to work.
Jimmy Purdy [01:09:40]:
Yeah, I like how you said that, the building style, because I don't think I've ever been able to put that to words. I think that's the best way to put it because it's true. It's just a different style of building. If it works, it works. Right. But it's like still, you want to put your stamp of approval on it, put your name on it. Know that in two, three years, when you see driving down the road, you're not halfway worried about know, being on the side of the road right as you're pulling up and seeing that white Chevy is like, that's not that same white Chevy is.
Wain Hickman [01:10:17]:
Because everybody has their own way of doing things. And I don't think you can say unless it's completely wrong, if their way of doing it is wrong versus the way you do it. Because I feel if you have an open mind, you can learn so much more. I've tried to keep an open mind on stuff and see how other people do it and be like, wow, okay, that actually does work.
Jimmy Purdy [01:10:43]:
It's a fair point.
Wain Hickman [01:10:47]:
When I first learned about pulling valve bodies all the way apart, I was like, oh, my God, I'm going to pull this whole, oh, man, that's going to scare the hell out of me. And now it's second nature.
Jimmy Purdy [01:10:59]:
Yeah. Like you said, overcoming and adapting.
Wain Hickman [01:11:05]:
I think that's one of the biggest thing on this industry is overcoming and adapting. And like, we're talking about the brotherhood. That's another place where you can learn what other people do. And if it's working for them, if it's not working. I really like that Brotherhood page.
Jimmy Purdy [01:11:25]:
Yeah. Information like that and building connections and meeting like individuals, networking, that's bigger than any other textbook or anything else you can find, right? Being able to just talk face to face about the industry, about we're going through together, about the parts you're doing. But with the building styles that we have, all that stuff all helps us grow together. It's invaluable. You can't put it into words, what it means, but in the field that's dying as far as transmission we're building, we need it more than ever now. And we need to know that guys that getting into the field now have this resource and are able to find people that are willing to talk to you and be nice to you and show you a different, maybe better, but just a different way of doing it. And you're like, oh, that makes my job so much easier. Now I don't worry about having to do this part of the build or whatever it ends up being.
Wain Hickman [01:12:25]:
No. I mean, we need all the help we can get.
Jimmy Purdy [01:12:28]:
Absolutely.
Wain Hickman [01:12:29]:
And helping each other, I think that's the biggest thing.
Jimmy Purdy [01:12:31]:
Yes. Well, cool, man. Well, I appreciate you helping me today and jumping on with me.
Wain Hickman [01:12:38]:
Yeah, this is pretty cool.
Jimmy Purdy [01:12:40]:
Well, we talked about a lot of cool stuff. You're the first guy I've dug in with transmissions.
Wain Hickman [01:12:48]:
Okay.
Jimmy Purdy [01:12:48]:
You're my first episode of actually diving into a guy that's running a shop, that's building and doing it. So it's cool. It's cool insight. It's good to knock heads a little bit about it.
Wain Hickman [01:13:00]:
Nice. Anytime I'll ever want to do it again, let me know.
Jimmy Purdy [01:13:03]:
I will. Yeah. Well, thanks.
Wain Hickman [01:13:04]:
I got all the stuff. Now I'm ready.
Jimmy Purdy [01:13:08]:
I figured out the bug. So we're good now? Yes.