The Mob Museum

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Marcus White 1:14
Good morning. Everyone Happy April 12. Oh man, I hope that you've had an awesome week. This week has been pretty awesome, pretty awesome. Today on the urban res, we're tapping into history power and the untold layers of influence that shape our communities in ways most people never stop to consider. We're joined by Jonathan Ullman, President and CEO of the mob Museum, the National Museum of organized crime and law enforcement, located in the heart of downtown Las Vegas, with over three decades of leadership and the nonprofit and museum space, Johnson has built a career not just preserving history but transforming how people engage with it, from helping guide major expansions at The Liberty Science Center to leading the RE innovation of a national soccer Hall of Fame, he now stands at the forefront of one of the most unique and thought provoking institutions in the country. Under his leadership, the mob Museum has earned recognition as a top workplace and one of the best museums in the nation. But beyond that, it's become a platform for deeper conversations around crime, justice and the real impact these forces have had on society. Jonathan is also deeply embedded in the community, working alongside civic organizations, law enforcement initiatives and local leadership to bridge the gap between history and real world impact. Jonathan, welcome to the urban res, my brother.

Jonathan Ullman 2:42
Thank you so much for having me here today.

Marcus White 2:44
Of course, it's great to have you, and many people don't know you and I are leadership Las Vegas classmates, that lucky 13, the best class ever.

Jonathan Ullman 2:56
That's true. It's starting to sound like a long time ago, but you're absolutely right.

Marcus White 3:02
So let's, let's hop right into this. So what's the biggest misconception people have about the mob Museum? Oh my gosh.

Jonathan Ullman 3:12
Well, biggest misconception, I think, Mark, is that there's a couple things that come to mind immediately. You know, first I'd say, I think people don't realize how robust the mom museum experience is, you know, they don't realize how deep of a collection we have, how rich the storytelling is. So a lot of people will will come to the museum and, you know, maybe expecting that. They'll spend an hour, 90 minutes, and we'll see everything. And certainly, you can spend, you know, you can spend 6090, minutes. So the exhibits are also, I mean, they're so deep, and there's, there's so much that you can do, with respect to the interactives that we offer, the time experiences, that it's really so much more than people anticipate, and I think that that they're also, you know, really pleasantly surprised to learn, you know, and see the quality of the presentation, you know. I think, I think for some folks, they don't immediately recognize how serious an undertaking this has been, you know, the mob Museum in Las Vegas. You know, sounds sensational. We are a very serious minded museum. We are accredited by the American Alliance of Museums, you know, which I don't know if you know this, but of the you know, there are upwards of 40,000 museums in the nation, less than 4% you know, receive accreditation. I mean, that's something that you have to work hard, you have to be performing and, you know, with the best practices in the industry, to achieve that type of designation, we we truly are, you know, at the. This is sounding immodest. You know, we truly are a world class institution. We don't glorify crime or romanticize criminals. I think that's something that sometimes people might wonder if that's, you know, if that's how the subject matter is treated at the museum. But, but to the contrary, we we discuss the impact organized crime has had on society, all the things that have been done and still need to be done to fight against these types of activities. So I think, I think that's pretty much the biggest misconceptions I imagine that are out there. All right,

Marcus White 5:41
that is really interesting. Because I remember when I first heard that Bob museum was coming, I was like, what the house like? I know Las Vegas is rich and in the area of mobs, and how, you know, the city, you know, was written by a mob, by the mob for some time. And there was one even time I heard somebody saying, like, Man, how do you think that we can get steak and eggs for 599 I was like, okay, that's very interesting.

Jonathan Ullman 6:09
You know, Marcus, you know, there was a fair amount of concern when we were when the museum was first being created, you know, there was a fair amount of concern in the public that the museum was going to glorify crime, that it might be kind of a romantic vision of Las Vegas's history with the mob. Some of that is also because of how he came to be. I mean, I think you remember at the time, that you know, the history of of our of our institution, dates back to when Mayor, former mayor, Oscar Goodman was mayor of Las Vegas, and it was in the early ought that he was mayor, and he realized that the building that we occupy, which is so important to us, I mean, I think, you know, it's the former post office and federal courthouse in downtown Las Vegas, first place in service in 1933 so by Las Vegas standard, you know, I know, you know people from other parts of the of the country, particularly on the, you know, in the East Coast. That might not sound old, but you have to keep in mind, Las Vegas was incorporated in 1905 Las Vegas is the biggest city born in the 20th century. So 1933 for us is an old building in a in a city that has a kind of a tradition of of imploding older buildings instead of preserving them. And it's such an important piece of our history. It's, it's, it's important locally for the architecture. It's on the, you know, it's also on the National Register of Historic Places. And this was a federal courthouse that one of the locations of the Kefauver Committee hearings that were US Senate investigative hearings into organized crime that took place in Las Vegas, and as the first federal building in Southern Nevada, you know, pretty much every federal agency that was, you know, before they had their own office or presence in Las Vegas, operated out of our building. It was the, you know, when the planners for Nellis Air Force Base, you know, came out here, they were in our building. You know, the FBI, before they had an office of their own, they operated out of our building. But anyway, you know, Oscar, when he was mayor, he was, you know, our building wasn't really active anymore in terms of, you know, being used as a federal courthouse or a post office, because there were more modern facilities for that. And Oscar came to realize that it could be acquired from the federal government, that it could be gifted from the federal government to the city of Las Vegas that it would come with two deed covenants. It would have to be, one, rehabilitated and two, it would have to be repurposed for some kind of cultural use, but would have to be a museum. And Oscar, you know, who is very much a visionary and very much interested in revitalizing downtown Las Vegas, you know, I think recognized that it had to be something really unique and really special, you know, something that would attract tourists and really drive growth downtown. Now, I think kind of getting back to, you know, the concerns that people had about what the subject matter might entail. People knew, before Oscar was mayor, he was a defense attorney. And as Oscar would tell you, he was a defense attorney for reputed mobsters, you know. I mean, we know they weren't just reputed mobsters. They were mobsters. So there was some worry that the museum might be, you know, if you, if you recall or went back. And looked at some of the news articles from the time, you know, there were, there were concerns that this was somehow going to to kind of glamorize and be a shrine to Oscar and and his his old clients. But, you know, that's, that's actually not the case for, you

Marcus White 10:18
know, yeah. So, how do you balance telling compelling stories about organized crime without glorifying it? Yeah, well, I mean, I think the

Jonathan Ullman 10:28
you know what, one advantage that we have is that the subject matter is just inherently fascinating. I mean, you don't have to embellish these stories. And there's a reason why, you know, so much of popular culture has been based on stories of monsters in law enforcement. I mean, if you know, if you if you wanted to make up, like, interesting stories, you know, you probably couldn't do better than than most of the real life, you know, events that we're talking about. But I think the important thing is that when we're telling these stories, that we're not glamorizing the actions of the criminals. You know, if anything, we're celebrating the achievements of law enforcement, what law enforcement and the criminal justice system has done to battle against organized crime. And I think importantly, you know, we we constantly remind people of the harms to society. You know that there are innocent victims. You know of both physical violence. You know there's a section of the museum where we talk about mob hits and mob violence. There's a quote on the wall from Bugsy Siegel, we only kill each other, and that's not true, and we debunk that. And we talk about innocent people that have been harmed in acts of violence by, you know, by criminal behavior. And we also talk about other ways in which, you know, people have been harmed through financial harms. I mean, if you think about all the different rackets that that organized crowd has participated in through the years. You know, like, you know, if you think about Las Vegas, in particular, the skin, I mean, these, you know, you know who's who's actually being robbed by these criminals when they're skimming, you know, tax dollars. I mean, it's the public. You know who's being, you know, who's being, you know, victimized by other rackets where people are being taken advantage of or being extorted, you know. So I think it's, you know, the stories are compelling and fascinating. And you know, we want people to have have enjoyed their experience, and to be able to have, you know, to find it entertaining where it's appropriate, but it's also presented very authentic and at times overing, you know about the real harms that have have occurred as a result of organized crime,

Marcus White 12:57
you know? And this is great man, I want to shift to community impact. So what's one community program you're most proud of that people wouldn't expect from the museum like this? I think

Jonathan Ullman 13:11
what I'm well, I'm most proud of, it's a tough question to Marcus. I mean, it's like asking somebody to pick their favorite kid. You know, it's, you know, our, I gotta say, our educational outreach. You know, we we do a lot of educational programming, we host a lot of programs on site. But what flies beneath the radar, and people would really be, I think, surprised to know about is that we have a team of educators, and they're like, there's so talented. I mean, our team here are so talented, and they go out pretty much every day during the school year. They get into, you know, we have an outreach vehicle that actually has exhibits built into it, and they go to schools, primarily, you know, CCSD schools. And last year, you know, we reached over 11,000 students. And most of these programs, we go out to schools, so mostly in person, in classrooms. We do do digital outreach, also, you know, so virtually, but most of these programs are in person. The majority of them are for Title One schools and and, you know, the majority of them are free of charge, and we go out there, and the lessons that they provide to these students, you know, they align with the core curriculum standards. There's an array of different topics that the teachers can choose. So we, you know, we have a lesson that's all about how Las Vegas came to be formed. We talk about different important events in Las Vegas history, things like the civil rights movement. We have other programs that focus on constitutional law, programs on forensic science. I mean, it's really, you know, really. Wonderful service that we're able to provide. And you know, I mean, you know, for the students CCSD, they don't necessarily get the opportunities get out to a museum. So for a museum to be able to come to them, give them a different experience, give the you know, give the teacher a way of energizing the class and helping the teacher you know, you know, cover some important subject matter. The urban

Marcus White 15:23
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Marcus White 15:46
with that. So who are you trying to reach that you currently are not reaching, and why?

Jonathan Ullman 15:52
Well, you know who are. So, you know, we, last year, we, we welcomed, you know, well over 400,000 visitors to the museum in 2025 you know, I think of that, generally speaking, 90% of our audience are non locals, or tourist Las Vegas, or 10% are locals. You know, I'd love to get get that number up higher, you know, I think, you know we, you know, we always want to reach more people, you know, just in general. But I think that the more that we can be of service to people that live in Southern Nevada, live in Las Vegas, and that people see us as being, you know, museum. That's for the community. You know, I think we would really like to make gains, you know, in that regard, and that's one of the reasons why. So, you know, we always do, you know, a very strong discount for Nevada residents. You know, the emission prices is, you know, always 40% less than for non locals, we have free admission days, you know, entirely free days for locals twice a year. You know, once when we you know, in February, February 14, when we celebrate our anniversary, and then the other date, November 15, when we celebrate the anniversary of the Keith offer committee hearings, the Senate hearings that took place in our courtroom. But we also provide a lot of other special opportunities for locals to to enjoy the museum, because we really want it to be accessible, and we want it to be you know, we want people to have a sense of pride and feel like the museum is is for them

Marcus White 17:44
nice and I mean, and that's really great, because I think a lot of times, as you know, being a resident, a local, and even times, you know, we have friends and family that come in town like, man, what can we go? And I can almost guarantee you the bulk of the people never think, oh, you know what, let's go to the mob Museum. I'm certain of that, you know, you know,

Jonathan Ullman 18:06
Mark, we do get, you know, we do get a lot of, you know, folks bringing people here to us, you know. And I think that's, you know, when I think about what really kind of gets me excited and makes me feel good about the job that we're doing. Is when I hear that you know, when you know, when you hear things about, you know people wanting, you know that wanting to show off the museum to their you know their friends and family that are coming for a visit, that you know we're a place that they think of. Think that's that's an important measure of our success.

Marcus White 18:44
So now with looking at, you know, strategy and growth for the museum, how do you decide what stories or exhibits deserve a platform?

Jonathan Ullman 18:54
Well, everything you know, everything that we consider, is rooted you know, first in our mission. So you know our mission, advancing public's understanding of organized crimes history and impact on American society. So how do we tell that story, which is challenging. I mean, I gotta tell you mark, because, you know, we, you know, we're covering a lot of ground. You know, it's over 100 years of history, and we're trying to, you know, do right by, you know, the local story, the national story, and increasingly international. I mean, you think about organized crime today, you know, it's transpiring at a global level, and we have limitations based on, you know, the size, the physical size of museum we we currently organize the museum chronologically. So when you go through the museum, you gotta, you know, you're usually directed to go up to the third floor. And it starts at kind of the birth of organized crime in America. And it's the late 19th century, early 20th century, and by the time you work your way down to the first floor, you. You you're in kind of present day, and that international, you know, organized crime in present day. You know, we look at what are the most important events, you know, so things like prohibition, you know, in the in the 1920s I mean an incredibly important period of time, which really, I mean, the act of prohibition, you know, was something that that that enabled organized crime groups to amass enormous amounts of wealth and really seeded their expansion and other types of activities that they got into. So you look at, what are those kind of key events? Who are the key people? And you try to build the storytelling around that. But I think that you also, I mean, it's, it's, you know, there's also special interest stories that you got to do too, to try to connect people to points in time. And I think that that, you know, what also ends up driving a lot of the storytelling is we think about the different modalities that you can tell the stories, and what are the you know? So one of those being through the collection, right? So when you have historic artifacts, so right now we have, we have the premier collection of artifacts from the St Valentine's Day Massacre that took place in Chicago in 1929 so very famous at the time, it was, you know, a story that had global reach. You know, was, you know, was something that changed public perception of organized crime groups that to some degree, were given to people what they wanted during Prohibition, elevated Al Capone to the level of, you know, public enemy number one status in Chicago. This is, you know, an incredible moment in history. You know, we have, you know, the the all of the so the remnants of the wall from the warehouse where the massacre took place, the firearms that were associated, associated with the crime, all of the ballistics evidence, I mean, from a forensic science perspective, such an incredible story. You know, it's so to be able to talk it about an event like that, and be able to do it, you know, with the actual objects of historical artifacts, to transport people back to that point in time is incredible. So you know, that's one way you know when we you know you can't, you can't necessarily decide, you know, as a museum, you know what artifacts to tell stories around, because you know you have to be somewhat opportunistic about that, about what's what's available, what you're able to find, you know, what still exists from different events that you're able to acquire. So that's certainly a driver around the different stories and exhibits. But then there's other things that you know, you think about different modalities and how people might like to experience or understand the subject matter. I mean, there's, you know, we have these exhibits Marcus that are

Jonathan Ullman 23:02
recordings of from wire taps that were used, you know, to prosecute different criminal and we have those, you know, they're down on the first floor. They're near, near these other exhibits about surveillance, where we do these storytelling, you know, around undercover agents. I mean, there's this great display. We've got Jack Garcia, Cuban, born American, amazing former FBI undercover agent infiltrated the Gambino crime family was responsible for literally dozens of convictions, not just prosecutions, but convictions. And we, we have, in a, you know, a case that has, you know, the recording devices and his, you know, the firearms used to carry undercover. I mean, these are, and this is going back. I mean, you, you, I know you and I are better the same generation. I know you remember those big cassette deck you know that we used to have back in the day? I mean, he would strap these things on him and go undercover, incredibly courageous, you know. And so we're able to tell these stories where people can listen to wiretaps that were used and, you know, for different types of prosecutions, they can see the types of objects that undercover agents would carry with them. There's a video from, you know, that features Jack Garcia talking about these operations. I mean, there's stuff that brings you into the moment where you are able to learn, you know, not just about specific events, but also about the methodology, right? How did you know? How did law enforcement battle these criminals? You know, what were the different rackets? How did organized crime evolve over time. But how did the criminal justice system also evolve to be able to fight against it? It's just so fascinating, man.

Marcus White 24:48
Just listen to you talk about it, and you can hear the passing in your voice. I'm like, I'm ready. Let's go now. Let's go down to this museum. Kick all this out. So I. We have enough time for for one more question, and I want to know, where do you see the untapped opportunity, whether it's schools, cities or private sector, that's going to allow you to help expand your partnership reach? And it doesn't matter if it's in the city of Las Vegas or if it's a global thing, or if it's statewide across the country. But where do you see an untapped opportunity?

Jonathan Ullman 25:26
Oh my gosh, that's such a hard question mark, because there's so many untapped opportunities. We do have strong partnership connections, you know, you know, with, you know, in Southern Nevada, with UNLV and higher education, with the various chambers of commerce with different law enforcement groups. We have an incredible partnership with with Metro Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department. You know you have one of, one of the features in the in the museum is our crime lab, and you can go in there, and you can do different stations and interactive learn how forensic scientists do their work and crime scene investigators do their work. And there's videos that all of this was done in conjunction with the Metro crime lab. You know, same with our firearm training simulator, that whole experience. So, you know, we're able to through partnerships like that. We have a very strong partnership with the FBI field office and the FBI Citizens Academy. And I think the, you know, I'd love for us to get closer, you know, more deeply connected with other community groups and other, you know, corporations and foundations. Because I think if, if, if other groups understood the good that we do and the way in which we expose people to important history and important issues. I mean, if you think about the different public programs we do, you know, you know, we talk a lot about contemporary criminal justice issues that I think you know, really, the museum offers kind of a safe space, you know, in some ways it's, you know, kind of a neutral gathering ground for people to have community conversations and to explore different ideas and ways that we could truly be making our community better. I think that we, you know, we're kind of like in some ways, unique in our ability to offer that, and I would love for more organizations to take advantage of that opportunity.

Marcus White 27:19
And I think that it's a it's fantastic, and we do need to get more organizations to take advantage of the opportunity that, you know, the mob museum definitely presents. And, man, I would love to have you back on again, so we can maybe share some stories sometimes. And that'd be great, you know. And, you know, and, oh, and then the one thing that people don't know, man, real quick to speak easy. I mean, that you guys have down there. Oh my gosh, man, it's, it's definitely worth going to take, take a look at. You didn't even get a chance to

Jonathan Ullman 27:52
retup on that. I mean, we, you know, we talked about up, you know, as I was mentioned before, with the same Valentine's Day master. We talked about prohibition and and, you know, the the mob activity and the org and the criminal justice activity around prohibition in the in the exhibit space up on the third floor, but when you get down to the basement, or Speak Easy now, we're talking about the prohibition era more broadly and just kind of culturally. And you go in, we have a Speak Easy exhibit space. It's a working Speak Easy and everything and everything in there is on brand, and it's on, you know, it's, it reinforces the storytelling. I mean, every drinks got a historical connection to it and has a story behind it. We do live jazz on the weekends, there's a separate Secret, secret entrance. You can get the password off of our, you know, Facebook or Instagram account. And you can come after museums close, and come in the side door. And we got a distillery adjacent to the speakeasy where we're making our own moonshine. And you can come down there. You can see other distiller. You can take our distillery tasting tours. You can try drinks with moonshine

Marcus White 29:05
in it. Well, Jonathan, thank you so much for being on the urban res. We greatly appreciate you, man, like I said, we're definitely going to have you back, and I've shared some more stories. So everybody have a an awesome Sunday, and we will talk to you next month. Have a good one.

Marcus White 29:21
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