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We need a new definition of success—one that harmonizes meaning and money.
Imagine diving into your workday with renewed energy, leaving behind the exhaustion or dread of a monotonous grind.
Traditional beliefs about success and the root cause of burnout are the same:
Prove yourself.
Work harder.
Take care of the business, and it will take care of you.
We’re recycling the mindset and practices that keep us stuck. Our souls need a jumpstart into The Age of Humanity.
Tune in for a new way of working that honors our nervous system and the bottom line, using knowledge of the brain, the Bible, and business. We’ll discuss timeless truths that amplify growth, ignite change, and reshape the world of work. No corporate speak or business BS. Let’s get to the heart of a rewarding career and profitable growth.
We speak human about business.
What’s in it for You?
Value, Relevance, and Impact (VRI): No, it's not a new tech gadget—it's your ticket to making your work genuinely matter to you and your company.
Human-Centric Insights: We prioritize people over profits without sacrificing the bottom line. Think less "cog in the machine" and more "humans helping humans."
I'm your host, Rebecca Fleetwood Hesson, your thrive guide leading you into the new Age of Humanity. I’ve navigated the highs and lows of business and life, from achieving over $40 million in sales, teaching thousands of people around the world about leadership, trust, execution, and productivity to facing burnout, divorce, raising a couple of great humans (one with ADHD), and navigating the uncertainty of starting a business.
I’m committed to igniting change in the world by jumpstarting business into profitable growth with the timeless truths of our humanity.
Sound crazy? It’s only crazy until it works.
Hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and leave a review to help other listeners discover our show.
Want insight and advice on your real career and business challenges? Connect with me on social media or email me at rebecca@wethrive.live. Your story could spark our next conversation.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:00:00]:
I'm not coming down I never knocked it on the ground I'm not coming down I wanna go higher, higher, higher, Higher than that. Welcome back to the Business is Human podcast. I'm your host, Rebecca Fleetwood Hession, and we're here to bring you episodes that blend meaningful work with profitable success. Here to steward what I call the age of humanity. I believe if we transform the way we work, we can transform the way that we live. As always, my friendly request. If you like what you hear, hit subscribe so you don't miss any episode and leave a review to tell the other humans that they might like it too. Always looking to help you and connect with others.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:00:41]:
All right, let's get into it, shall we? Welcome back to the show Business is Human. This is Rebecca Fleetwood Hession, and we are just a few weeks away from the sixth annual Stand tall in your story event. And I really hope that you already have a ticket and you're thinking about what you're going to wear and you're super excited, but if you don't, you probably still can. At the time of this recording, there are still tickets available, but we have sold out in the past. I do have a bigger venue this year at the Indiana Roof Ballroom, which is big and beautiful and gorgeous, and I have to sometimes just stop and pause and remind myself how far this event has come over the last six years. And I say that as a reminder to you who have big ideas in your heart that it's okay to just get started and let it be a little bit messy and uncertain. Because if I compare my headspace for year one to where I am with year six, it doesn't even feel the same. And you just gotta get started.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:01:51]:
Just get started and see where it goes. Which really is a good segue into today's topic, which I'm gonna call embracing surrender. How letting go can actually be the secret to success. What happens when the plan that you thought you were following takes an unexpected turn? And I am so happy to bring this topic to you because I've been trying to figure out a way to bring this conversation to the show. And I stumbled upon our guest today, Dr. Lisa Stanton, on Instagram, y'all, and she did a reel about surrender, and I was like, yes, that's what I want to talk about. And she's the one I want to talk to about it. And with this episode with Lisa, we're going to talk about what happens if you do surrender.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:02:43]:
Truly open heart, open mind, open hands. Surrender. What if that is more of the key to growth in life and business. What if it's about faith and belief in something bigger than yourself? Because we are all either recovering from or in the throes of some control freak addiction, self included. I'm in the recovery mode. But I've been there and it's not all it's cracked up to be, is it? So are we willing to try something different? So today I'm joined by Dr. Lisa Stanton, a powerhouse in both the world of psychology and spirituality. She has a PhD in social psychology and a background in behavioral research.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:03:31]:
Lisa had built what looked like the perfect career until everything changed. And so through this journey of sobriety. Talk about release. That's the hardcore stuff that she had to go through. Has taught her a lot about this. She's captured faith through that journey in a really meaningful way. And a radical surrender. She found herself on a completely new path.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:03:54]:
Get this. Which has led her to a book deal, a thriving online platform, how I found her on Instagram. And now an unexpected return to the corporate world. But this time Lisa is doing life on God's terms. So in this conversation we're going to dive deep into the tension between striving and surrender, the identity and calling conversation, the unexpected ways that God works in our lives. And she'll talk a lot about from forgiveness and business to faith and career transitions. Lisa's story is going challenge you to rethink what success really looks like. Maybe just might be invite you to surrender just a little more.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:04:40]:
Let's get into it.
Lisa Stanton [00:04:42]:
So 2023, I was working at a full time job in research. So my background is I have a PhD in psychology but it's in social psychology, not in counseling. So I'm trained as a researcher. Like my doctoral minor was quantitative methods and statistics. So I was working at a health tech company in San Francisco. Thought I had my dream job. I'm happy doing that. I'm getting sober which is a whole other story about surrender.
Lisa Stanton [00:05:07]:
And as like part of this surrender process that I'm in, I started writing essays about spirituality and that came out of sobriety for me because I didn't believe in God prior to getting sober.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:05:17]:
I saw that on your social. Yeah, yeah.
Lisa Stanton [00:05:20]:
So the Bible comes in then these are all things we can circle back to. But when I think of that like what it looks like to be successful in business and in life and surrendering to that. It was 2022, while I was working a full time job, I started writing about spirituality. Then I started posting that on Instagram and then that started growing January 2023, I got laid off and very much thought that I had a problem that needed to be fixed. Right. It's a control thing. Like my problem is I got laid off fixing it as I'm applying to new research jobs and everything's going to be great. And then instead of that, God basically showed me like, we're not applying to jobs right now.
Lisa Stanton [00:05:57]:
Through some stuff, through him, through my husband is also a man of faith. Him being like, hey, we were getting married in August and he was like, maybe you should just take the time off until the wedding. So there's all these pieces coming together basically as time goes on. It's very clear to me that I'm supposed to be spreading this message about God on Instagram. Then I got a book deal and I'm like, okay, God's calling me in this sort of like, I'm not really what you see in my work. It's not totally recovery based, but it's almost like spirituality but for people who have come to it through suffering or people who have come to God, Jesus, Bible. When I say spirituality, I don't want people to think I'm like way off in some other realms, but coming to a relationship with God via that is often who finds me. So I think that I'm basically in the space of ministry, whatever that's.
Lisa Stanton [00:06:43]:
So since January of 2023, so just about two years, like full time. That's what I've been doing. And then. But surrendered always like, God, what do you want me to do next? God, what do you want me to do next? And then I have not even told anyone on Instagram or anything. Like literally my family and husband know. But through a very odd series of events, I was on LinkedIn on Christmas Eve because my husband was very sick and we're just the two of us in our family at the moment. And my publisher from my book company had been like, you should be posting on LinkedIn. And I was like, I want to post About God on LinkedIn.
Lisa Stanton [00:07:15]:
Like, it's just a weird place to do it, I don't think. It's whatever. It's all my own fears, right? Coming up in that moment, which I recognize. So it's Christmas Eve and I was.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:07:22]:
Like, you know what?
Lisa Stanton [00:07:23]:
I'm gonna see if there's pastors on LinkedIn and what they're posting and see if I can do this in a way that's not weird. So I go on LinkedIn and I still had job alerts on for the types of research roles I was Looking at. And there was one that was there. And if you ask anyone in tech right now, it's not a good job. Industry people are like, I applied to 400 jobs and I'm not getting any. Long story short, I see this job and I feel, God, be like, you should apply to that. Which of course I ignore. Cause I'm like, no, you have made me a minister and an author and I'm going other direction.
Lisa Stanton [00:07:54]:
And then it was just like, on my mind to the point where I was like, fine, I'm redoing my resume. Like, I added what I've done over the last couple of years, which is basically just like, write a book, grow social media. Like, this isn't even related to.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:08:06]:
Just see yourself. And then if something happens, you'll know it was God. Because the credentials didn't add up.
Lisa Stanton [00:08:12]:
Yeah. And basically I applied to this job. I signed a contract yesterday or Tuesday night, I signed a contract to go full time back into research. It's kind of an interesting timing because it was like a six rounds of interviewing because it's a pretty technical job and it just, like, kept going. And I would, like, look at my husband, pray about it. And I'm like, I think I'm just supposed to keep doing this. And I don't really know why, but when you talked about that, like, intersection of business and surrender and all of these other things, it's like how those things come together in ways that I don't predict. And in a very, like, practical sense, in terms of, like, what do I think success is? I was praying about, like, I need an income eventually.
Lisa Stanton [00:08:54]:
Like, how do I sell more books? Do I go into social media branding? Do I do this different stuff? And God's like, what if you go back to. So it's a very similar role to the role that I had before. Hopefully my employer doesn't listen to this podcast because I'm about to tell you the cool part. But I'm making 50k more than I was when I left in 2023.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:09:09]:
That's God in. In my experience, I didn't know it was coming. It came at the weirdest time. Like on Christmas eve, you're on LinkedIn. Hello? What? And then it just keeps rolling and you're like, well, I guess I'll just keep going.
Lisa Stanton [00:09:25]:
But yeah.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:09:26]:
And it's not instead of ministry or any of that other stuff. Right. It's the income that you've been praying for.
Lisa Stanton [00:09:34]:
Yeah. And the interesting thing I was going to say is it's at this point where Like I post my sort of like cadence on social media is I put out this preview on Thursday and then I post an essay every Saturday. And I write those pretty easily. Then God just comes through them and I write them. That happens every week. And then the book just came out November 26th. I still have to do the book signings they tell me to do and all that stuff. But like, it just sort of launched and now it can live a life of its own.
Lisa Stanton [00:10:01]:
And I don't need to be doing that full time. So it all just like it was time. Yeah. In ways that I could never plan. And I said that in my job interviews. But like, why did you want this job? I was like, I'm not totally sure. Honestly. I like really loved my old job and it was similar to this.
Lisa Stanton [00:10:16]:
I'm not even sure why I'm here. It does line up with a bunch of things I've been passionate about for a really long time. And my brother has diabetes and it's a diabetes related tech company. There was some logic to it, but I was like, I'm not really sure. I wasn't going to be like, I think God's calling me back to the office. But.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:10:30]:
But even say, I'm not sure, you know, God's gotta be in it. If that's how you respond in an interview question. Because so many companies want you to be just clamoring to, to join them. And you're like, I don't even know why.
Lisa Stanton [00:10:43]:
Yeah. I told them I like didn't really apply to anything else. I was like, it's not like it's this or other things. And I'm actually trying to get a job right now. I just saw this and felt like.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:10:52]:
I should apply to it. Love. Love. And to me that's surrender. Like I got this feeling. Then this happened. And when I think about my old life in corporate sales and what I call was striving and the word strive actually means battle and conflict. Where you always feel like you're in a battle to compete with others and achieve and produce and living this way of surrender to what God has for you next is the most freedom I've ever felt in my life.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:11:23]:
And I have no idea what's coming next.
Lisa Stanton [00:11:26]:
Yeah.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:11:27]:
Which is a weird jump for many people in the business world to make. What do you mean surrender? And you don't know what's coming next. That, that doesn't make any sense. And that's what I love most about it is the freedom to wake up and be like, if he redirects me today. Okay, I guess that's what we'll do. And that's exactly what's happening for you.
Lisa Stanton [00:11:48]:
Yeah. And it's funny too, because I. I feel like there is prejudice a little bit. And it might just be because I spend too much time on social media, because I've spent a lot of time on Instagram over the past couple years. And I will say that my husband doesn't even have social media. So I feel like sometimes I'll say, like, everyone's talking about this. And he's like, I literally have not met anyone talking about this. But it looks like God leads people sometimes, like, out of the mundane or out of a W2 job or out of a whatever.
Lisa Stanton [00:12:19]:
So it was so funny to me that, like, my original story was like, I guess God wants me to be an author now or doing my own thing. And then it's also really funny that God doesn't always lead you to things that are overtly serving him or, like, overtly more freedom. Like, I was like, God, we're going back into clinical research. Like, it's not like I'm doing some, like, terrible for the world thing or something. It's just like, I'm going back into health research. I'm going to look at diabetes outcomes and a diabetes coaching program. I'm going to look at ways to help help improve people's lives who are, like, depressed. Like, it's in a helping people role still.
Lisa Stanton [00:12:59]:
But it's just so interesting that, like, I am 100% sure that it was God calling me to displace. And I'm like, but calling me out of here and into here. But like you said, it was at exactly the right time. So that I don't think anyone online is even going to notice that I have a 9 to 5 again unless I tell them.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:13:14]:
But isn't it true that we've been led to believe that we're this or we're that? And this is a hybrid of how is he going to use your gifts and talents in a collective way? Because I believe that we were sold this identity lie, which I believe came from the devil. That we're too strongly associated with our jobs, that our identity is too rooted in our title, our role, our paycheck, our granite countertops, our neighborhood, whatever it is that's usually associated with. With career. And I think that that was the easiest way to get us exhausted and burned out and competing with one another versus doing the real work of surrendering to who he says we are, which then allows him to Use us in a variety of different ways. And to your point, oftentimes that surrender comes from a need for sobriety or I lost my job. In your case, you got the combo pack. It's some place where all of a sudden our identity doesn't make sense anymore for where we were and we don't know what to do. So we go to him.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:14:29]:
And so now that you've got more healing and now have written a book, 52 Life Changing Lessons you learned in recovery, you've written a book to share with others. Now he's like, okay, now I need you over here. Which is so beautiful because I think of your story and the way I lead. Some clients that are wanting of spiritual relationship in our business coaching is when they're not sure what to do. I say, well, let's go to Fishes and Loaves. What do you have? Well, I've got this gift and talent in this area. I've got this interest in this. I've got this whatever.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:15:07]:
What do you have? Because it's easy to look around and say, people will say, well, I don't have the right degree, or I don't have this, or I don't have that, or I didn't have this experience. And I'm like, okay, we could spend days looking at what you don't have, but what do you have? And then once you start to make your fishes and lows list, then you're like, oh, he could do a lot with this. And I feel like that's exactly what's happening with you. It's like, oh, I got more that I can do with you in this area that you thought you were done with.
Lisa Stanton [00:15:35]:
Yeah. And I love that you brought up that identity thing because like you said, whether it's society or whether it's even some of the systems that we function in, like when I think about my LinkedIn, I'm like, well, is my planner gonna be by company or is my banner gonna be my book? Yes. And like, and then also who do I need approval from? And like, right. If my company says like, I mean, they might just have a rule that you like have to do that, and then I just have to do that. But the identity of like, well, am I clinical research dentist or am I a nonfiction officer? Am I like, din can only have one as my current occupation. The other one's just gonna like, I have to put one person, I have to put one second on there. And I think that's such an interesting.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:16:15]:
Right.
Lisa Stanton [00:16:15]:
And then I'm also like a wife and A friend and all of these other things that I can't put on my LinkedIn. Yeah, but just that like when you were talking about not just the loaves and fishes, but this feeling of like, do you think I should put my Instagram on private? Because what if they find my Instagram and then they're like, she talks about God so she's not gonna like contribute to our psychology because I mean it's a behavioral psychology based intervention for diabetes. So I even like had fear about that and then was like, nope, if I'm supposed to be going in this direction, I can leave everything as it is. I can be both of those two things at the same time. And that there's some way that God is working, that I'm actually like supposed to be both of those two things at the same time in order to move something forward that only he knows. And I have no idea what that is.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:17:02]:
The first book that I published, there's a section in there where I left my 20 year career with the Franklin Covey organization, you know, which is a. Was a well known brand in the circles that I was in. And it was six month notice. I had plenty of time to think about this, but all of a sudden that last day I was sitting at my kitchen counter having a little bit of a pity party, even though I was the one who chose to leave. And I'm drinking a glass of wine and I thought to my, I don't even know how to introduce myself tomorrow and how will I know if I'm good if I don't have number whatever on the sales report? And that's really what began. The work that I'm doing now was I got to the point where I said, I know what my unique gifts and talents are and that's why I was successful there. And those I took with me, those are mine. Thank you Lord.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:17:51]:
The Lord gave me these gifts and talents. Now I get to choose to go use them elsewhere. But I had to work myself through that. It didn't come naturally to your point. And then it was like, okay, well do I just name the business and make business cards? And then what do I put on the thing? I don't have any experience. People are going to think I'm an idiot. Like, what am I? Yeah, it's a whole thing about identity.
Lisa Stanton [00:18:13]:
Yeah, I just surrendered one interesting piece of identity to just like I will know when the time comes and I don't have to figure it out today, which is when I. So I have like about 30 like scientific publications like in academic journals from various stages of my former career before the last two years, and some book chapters and all kinds of things. And they're all in my maiden name. Literally. The last article came out right before I got married, even though I wasn't working there anymore. A lot of projects that I had started at the last company I was at, when they finished them, they just left me as an author on it. And the very last one came out all in my maiden name. I was like, oh, wow, look at this identity transition.
Lisa Stanton [00:18:53]:
Because then all of my writing since then has been under. Yeah, has been under Lisa Stanton. But then I was like, well, if I publish research articles again, can I do that as Lisa Stanton? Like, is that possible? I still don't know. Today, they tend to not care if you use whatever name you're using. And I still have not made the decision when I. It's going to be one of those things. I'm going to pray about it the first time it comes up. But, like, whether I'm gonna have all of my academic research under my maiden name and then all of the ministry writing under my new name.
Lisa Stanton [00:19:25]:
It's so interesting that we even have to, like, wrestle with this thing instead of just being like, it's fine to be both of it all at the same time.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:19:33]:
The place that the devil loves to the playground is if he can get you to have confusion in your identity, it's far easier to get you to go to fear, which is exactly what you illustrated. You said, am I allowed to post About God on LinkedIn? Am I allowed to post about God on Instagram with I when I have this job? Like, all of that is the devil working in the goodness of the Lord, because the Lord is clearly guiding you to be getting you to question where your identity really is. That's all very fascinating. My son And I, who's 27 as of this week, we're reading the Screwtape Letters by cs. Have you read it?
Lisa Stanton [00:20:16]:
I actually read it. My whole story of God and not God is interesting, but my dad actually read it to us when I was like, 10. Like, as our good night story. It's a lot that's new.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:20:26]:
Okay, now I have to know. Like, he wrote A Tale of Two.
Lisa Stanton [00:20:29]:
Cities and, like, all kinds of stuff when we were really young.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:20:33]:
Yeah.
Lisa Stanton [00:20:34]:
My dad, when we were young, though, was Christian and we, like, went to church. My parents got divorced when I was five or so, but my mom still to this day, doesn't believe in God and didn't back then. So it was kind of this, like, he took us to church while she got. She's an academic too, while she got some writing done. But it was never like a united front, even when they were married. And then they got divorced and my mom maybe like three times took us to a Unitarian church. So like not really church. And then my dad for a while took us to weekly Christian church, but then he.
Lisa Stanton [00:21:03]:
Eventually both families are actually ethnically Jewish. And so my dad has like, over time reverted back to being Jewish. So I was Christian and then I wasn't at all. And then in my 20s, I was like all in on being Jewish, but like not the religious part, just like the. I was going to like the white parties with all you can eat sushi that they have for like young Jewish professionals in Minneapolis. So it was a club.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:21:27]:
You were in the club?
Lisa Stanton [00:21:28]:
Yeah, I was in the club. I went on Birthright, that like, free 10 day trip to Israel that you can get if you're partially Jewish. So I did like all of that stuff, but I was not praying by any means. I don't even think I thought God existed. I just thought being Jewish was like cool and fun and then basically spent the later part of my twenties nothing. And then finally end up circling all the way back sort of like through universe and new age, finally into like trinity by the time that I get sober in 2021.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:21:58]:
So I love.
Lisa Stanton [00:21:59]:
But anyway, yeah, I was like, you were telling the story about The Screwtape Letters
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:22:03]:
Well, The Screwtape Letters are a demon writing to his younger protege, teaching them how to divert people from God. And so when you read it, you can look around and know that that's really happening. And all of a sudden it's not just a classic piece of literature. It's based on biblical truth, but it's told in such a way that it is just fascinating. And so my son and I have been talking about reading it forever. And so I got it for us for Christmas. He's in Nashville and I'm here in Indianapolis. And so every time he calls, he's like, what letter are you on? And then we talk about, like, where we see that showing up in the real world.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:22:45]:
And the majority of it is about if you can get someone to question their identity, they will almost immediately go to fear. And that's when you know that you got them.
Lisa Stanton [00:22:56]:
That's really good. Yeah. And circles all the way back to this surrender thing of like, if I can just surrender my identity, my whole identity, if I can surrender the name I'm going to publish under, if I can surrender all of that, then I can just like, keep living in God's plan. And like you were saying, keep living in like, less resistance, more peace, regardless of what's going on to the point where I'm like, I'm even recognizing my own biases. Like, I'm like, okay, well, now I'm gonna be a researcher for a long time now. But it's like, God didn't say, I need you to be a researcher for a long time. God said, I need to take this job right now. Yeah.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:23:32]:
So, yeah, but our mindset and our history in business is there should be longevity or you're not good at it. And so you immediately went to, okay, now this is what I'm doing. And who knows, you could be on a six week assignment.
Lisa Stanton [00:23:45]:
Who knows? That is a really scary and excellent point. That is okay, like, and I get to pray about that as soon as I'm off this podcast to really surrender to whatever the plan is. I am okay with the plan.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:24:00]:
Whenever I've done this, two things have happened and they're in a bit of a juxtaposition. One thing that has happened is I feel more freedom and joy and peace than I maybe ever have in my entire life At a time when I don't know or really care what's coming up next. I have a vision. He's given me a very clear vision, but it has a lot of mobility that could happen in it. It's so far from the achievement based. And then I'm going to go to this title and then I'm going to get this kind of client and then I'm going to do this thing. It's just so different than anything. I mean, I helped work on the book the Four Disciplines of Execution, which is all about strategy and execution and productivity.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:24:42]:
Listen, I had, I had spreadsheets and plans for everything in my life. And so one, I have more joy and freedom than I've ever had by not being so tied strictly to this plan. But the second thing that's a bit in a juxtaposition is that freaks people out. So I'm very interested in paying attention to how people respond to me not having a plan. And I get up and I have my list of things I'm going to do for my clients and I show up for my keynotes and I'm a good steward of the work that I have today. I'm not just, you know, wake up every day and decide am I going to work today or not. I work hard, but I don't Feel tied to this. Like, if I don't achieve this thing, then I'm unworthy or then I've failed.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:25:29]:
That's the difference. But when I talk about that level of surrender, it makes people twitchy.
Lisa Stanton [00:25:36]:
Yeah, I have a very non business example, but life example of that. It's kind of two related things where I really freak people out a lot of the time. Some people are like, that's great. And other people are like, what were you thinking? So one of the first places where I feel like my sobriety date is January 4, 2021, and that's the date where I, like, kneeled down in front of a cross in a church. And like, obviously a lot of confession, a lot of other things. I don't want people to think I got like struck by lightning. And everything was easy. There was a lot of work that came after that.
Lisa Stanton [00:26:05]:
But that was the day where I really said, jesus, I'm gonna follow you. And then began the reality of surrendering and confessing my past and all that. But one of the first things that happened around that time was I met a guy who is now my husband and like, started praying about, you're not supposed to date in early sobriety, right? That's like a big no.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:26:24]:
No, that's right.
Lisa Stanton [00:26:25]:
So you're not supposed to date in our sobriety. We have a huge age gap, which I will reveal the extent of in a second. But it was like this thing of people around me were like, you're newly sober. You have this huge age gap. He has way more sobriety than you.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:26:38]:
What are you doing?
Lisa Stanton [00:26:39]:
Like, this whole thing. And then it's become this whole second thing. Because when people found out we, like, want to have kids, they're like, he's going to die. First it was, he's going to die because so he's 33 years older than me. So when we met, we were 29 and 62, and now we're 33 and 66. And, like, it works. And if you met him, he's like, nobody. I actually did not realize the age gap was that big when we met.
Lisa Stanton [00:27:04]:
And then I finally found out how old he was. And I was like, oh, God, you.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:27:08]:
Were already hooked there.
Lisa Stanton [00:27:10]:
I had to pray about the same thing that other people are having to, like, work through. So, like, to an extent, I do get it. But it's just such a funny thing because if you are a person who plans things out, it's like, we got married when we were 32 and 65. I can't even make the math 32 and 65. And so people were like, well, he's going to die, like, any second and it's unfair to your children if you make kids. And the weirdest thing happened. We were kind of in the stage of dating where I was like, okay, we're either going to, like, get engaged and do this or I need to, like, stop. God introduced me to.
Lisa Stanton [00:27:45]:
I just was like, meeting people left and right, which, like, this sounds really sad, but it was, like, very God ordained, if that makes sense. And I could, like. I was like, okay, I get it. You can, like, stop giving me examples. But a lot of young widows, like, I was meeting women who were like 35 and their husband had died, like, over and over and over. And I was like, okay, I get it. I'm not the one who decides how long people are supposed to be married for. You are.
Lisa Stanton [00:28:10]:
And like, whenever I have major decisions, like when I was realizing I wasn't supposed to be working, when I was really I was supposed to be working, I have this pretty intense knowing that, like, this is God. But it makes other people uncomfortable when they're like, but this is what's going to happen if you marry someone who's that much older. And I'm like, what's going to happen if I don't? And what's going to happen if I marry someone younger? What's going to happen if. Whatever it is.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:28:33]:
So it's not feeling the need to feel like you're in control of things.
Lisa Stanton [00:28:36]:
Yeah. So it's been interesting. But, like, when you were talking about other people being uncomfortable with letting go of having a plan, I like, forget that we have an age gap most of the time. But then, like, other people, when I, like, say something about how old he is, they're like, what are you thinking? And you guys are having kids. I mean, we've had people be like, that is completely irresponsible. Like, you should not be having kids because you're setting them up to just, like, be messed up. I'm like, kids with young parents get messed up all the time. So it's interesting.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:29:08]:
It's really interesting about people feeling the need to judge and have an opinion about your choices. Is there's this big move of talking about authenticity. That's the buzzword of the last few years. And so everybody wants their uniqueness. So I always say we're all unique down to our fingerprints. That's the way God intended it. Great. I love helping people discover their authenticity and their uniqueness and talents.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:29:36]:
Great. But the minute that Someone shows that they're different than you, people just lose it. And I'm like, okay, you can't have it both ways. You can't be all about celebrating your authenticity and your uniqueness and then immediately go to judge somebody who's unique, doing something different than you, like, make it make sense. Especially you've been on Instagram a lot lately. You know that, like, you read the comments on anybody that's doing anything bold, and you're like, oh, my word. Yeah, what's going on? People, like, when somebody does something different than you, all of a sudden, people are the judge and jury.
Lisa Stanton [00:30:17]:
Yeah. Anytime I post about our age gap, which is not very often, but, like, once, I don't know, probably like three times in the few years I've been on Instagram, two things happen. It goes viral because people start yelling at me about things, and I lose a bunch of followers because people are mad that my husband has an age gap. So it's like a catch 22 because I'm like, wow, a lot of new eyeballs, like, end up coming as a result of the video going viral. And then at the same time, I lose a bunch of followers because people get mad.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:30:45]:
It's funny because I just had this memory I posted on TikTok last year, and I don't do a lot on TikTok. It's mostly just whatever my random thoughts. I posted about a guy that I had dated was a lot younger than me. Same thing. The opinions were rampant, and some of them were like, you go, girl. And other ones were like, oh, my God, who do you think you are? And it did. It went viral because everybody was fighting in the comments, and I was like, next week when I come back on here and see what y'all decided my fate is.
Lisa Stanton [00:31:17]:
Yeah. So it is a funny thing. I don't do it that often, and the first time I did it, I didn't even know. You know what I mean? It wasn't on purpose. I was just like, oh, do I delete this? Like, people are responding a lot more strongly. But what's funny, too, is I can see, like, sometimes when I see other age gap couples, especially when someone's entire content is about age gap, it can be, like, really creepy. So then, like, from that perspective, sometimes I'm like, okay, well, like, if I'm getting associated with that, it's funny because I see both sides of it sometimes where I'm like, I guess I should say maybe my relationship with God has also allowed me to, like, have compassion for someone being In a place where that, like, does make them that uncomfortable. And like, okay, I.
Lisa Stanton [00:32:01]:
I like, can see where you're coming from.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:32:03]:
Yeah.
Lisa Stanton [00:32:03]:
So, yeah, I guess that's a nice grace of God, because several years ago, I would have just been like these people.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:32:09]:
Well, and that's what I always try to do in the comments is just be kind and curious. And sometimes I have to walk away and then come back to be kind of curious. But it's funny how easily you can disarm people just with kindness. They either delete their own comment and walk away or all of a sudden you're having a real conversation, which I think is fascinating. Yeah, yeah.
Lisa Stanton [00:32:31]:
Opinions, I will say, even just as like a. It's been a lesson for me in general. I really don't like when people are proved wrong and then they delete it. I feel like we should be mature enough to just say I was wrong. But I think that those are some of the three hardest words for people in general. And maybe especially people in America. And especially maybe America right now to just say like, hey, I was wrong.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:32:58]:
Yeah.
Lisa Stanton [00:32:58]:
And it's a reminder to me to also my husband and I actually have a thing between us. That is often said in a joking way, but it's not joking. We don't allow apologies to each other. You cannot say I'm sorry to the other person. You must say that you were wrong. And why? Because it's actually like a really different thing if something happens to just say I'm sorry. Because when you really think about it, if I do something to you and then I say I'm sorry, what I'm really saying is like, I'm sad that you feel harmed or that I did harm you. I'm sad that I harmed you.
Lisa Stanton [00:33:34]:
There is especially early on I would be like, I'm sorry. And he's like, I know you're sorry. You look sorry. I don't really care what your feelings are right now. Were you wrong or were you not wrong?
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:33:46]:
So can you not disagree and not be right or wrong? I'm fascinated by this, I guess.
Lisa Stanton [00:33:53]:
Well, maybe we don't disagree that often. It's usually something where I'm trying to think of an example. Really don't argue that much. But let's say he's like really late for something or let me be the bad guy. Why does I make him the bad guy? So let's say I'm really late for something. It's not like I'm sorry. It's like, I was wrong for not paying closer attention to time or I was wrong for not respecting your time. So it's really getting to the heart of like, what was I wrong about? Not just I'm sorry.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:34:21]:
Oh, that's interesting. Which makes me want to know now more about these 52 life changing lessons that you learned in recovery. Is that related in any way?
Lisa Stanton [00:34:32]:
I've written an essay about it. It's sad to say I've written so much I don't even remember which ones are in the book and not the book. I do have the book here, so I do know to an extent. But it's not like I have this running. I get it, like these are the 51 lessons. But I know at points sometimes I like it when I twist the knife in different things that I post. But I know that I posted something about not apologizing to other people. And people are like, you're a savage, you don't apologize to others.
Lisa Stanton [00:34:57]:
And I'm like, it's not that I don't say I'm sorry, but anytime that I'm saying I'm sorry, I should also be saying that I'm wrong and potentially why. And I know that was a lesson at some point. A lot of my lessons boiled down to like forgiveness related stuff because especially for people in recovery. But I think just for people in general, forgiveness is probably like, or I would say lack of forgiveness. Holding anger, holding resentment is probably one of the biggest things that affects people in general.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:35:27]:
I agree.
Lisa Stanton [00:35:28]:
That leads alcoholics and addicts to not be able to stop drinking. It was also the basis of my eating disorders, which I talk about in the book, that it was boiling down to this just like lack of forgiveness. And it's not as though I was walking around like grumbling all the time, thinking that I was holding all of these grudges. And I think when people think of like, oh, well, I'm not an angry person, they're thinking about that. Like, am I walking around with a chip on my shoulder angry about the world? And I definitely wasn't. But it's like when I really got down to it, it's like I was actually pretty angry about my parents divorce because I was confused about it. And that's one of like the biggest lessons I've learned is that when you get confused, you eventually end up angry. Like if you let confusion simmer long enough, it turns into anger.
Lisa Stanton [00:36:14]:
And one of the easy examples I always give is think about the last thing you lost. Like if you lost your car keys for the first like few seconds you're confused but how quickly you're like, are they?
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:36:26]:
Yes.
Lisa Stanton [00:36:26]:
And it turns into this anger. And the same thing happens with things in our lives, especially in childhood, that anything that confused me, like, why do my parents not love each other anymore? Why did I had a friend who was murdered in 5th grade? Why was he murdered? Those things I was just confused about. I don't even think I was, like, angry at first as much. I just didn't understand. But slowly that just turned into like huge amounts of suppressed anger that started coming out in all these different ways. And then I'll add one more layer. But like, that. It doesn't have to be things that people necessarily did to me.
Lisa Stanton [00:36:58]:
I always say, like, resentment, fancied or real. So the things I've been talking about are like real resentment, right? I like, really was upset that my parents died. I really was upset that my friend got murdered eventually. But I also had this resentment that I, like, needed to be perfect, needed to get good grades or my parents wouldn't love me. And there's no truth to that, right? In my head, I just created this story that I started living by that. Actually, the basis of that story is anger. I did the same thing with body weight that, like, I needed to be skinny or this or that would happen. And the basis of that story is anger.
Lisa Stanton [00:37:34]:
And now I've got eating disorders and I'm obsessed with my body weight and I'm trying to get all aids and there's too much pressure, so I just start drinking all the time, right? And things just explode. And the basis of all of that is anger. And the basis of relief from all of that was forgiveness.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:37:50]:
I love that you brought up this. And forgiveness and bitterness and releasing it. There's two or three people in my life recently, three that they've come to me with this business issue, and each one of them I have said, okay, so now that you've solved the problem, you're not going to like the next part, like, what? And not all of my clients love the Bible aspect of it. So I'm very. I meet them where they are, they're like, I need you to forgive them. And they're like, what are you talking about? Like, they stole my product, they marketed my thing. And I'm like, yep. And the only person that's going to hurt for you not forgiving them is you.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:38:34]:
And so it's the next step. And thankfully, they all have. Have jumped in and are going down that road. But it is significant to your cellular structure. I mean, literally talking about the nervous system what happens to your body if you hold bitterness and unforgiveness. And the Bible talks about it like it will fester and wound you in ways. Yeah, we don't want.
Lisa Stanton [00:39:01]:
Yeah, it may be an alcoholic and anorexic. You want it.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:39:06]:
And then I started thinking when you were talking about that that those are identity issues. I don't know who I am. If my parents aren't married, I can now call myself an alcoholic. I can call myself this like all of it is like identity related where I'm going to adopt this other identity because I don't either like or understand this one over here and that's the devil's playground. Because there's no confusion in Christ.
Lisa Stanton [00:39:29]:
The healing that comes from letting that stuff go. And I was going to say the healing from when people can telling their story. There's this story. It's actually from my husband. Most of the lessons of the 52 lessons are lessons that I tell via like stories and experiences of my life or sometimes the life of close others with permission. And I think this one's in here.
Lisa Stanton [00:39:54]:
But my husband, when he got his last DUI before he got sober. So this is like Thanksgiving 1999, he ends up getting court ordered to something called a MAD panel which is Mothers against Drunk Driving where you basically like normally what they're kind of like without like demonizing them. But they're not forgiveness panels.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:40:12]:
Right.
Lisa Stanton [00:40:12]:
They are panels where you as the drunk driver go and listen to mothers who have had their kids taken away by a drunk driver. They don't have legs anymore because of a drunk driver. Right. It's like you sit there and you.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:40:26]:
Like you're sitting there.
Lisa Stanton [00:40:27]:
Yeah, sort of. It's part of your punishment is like basically listening to how people have been hurt by people drunk driving because they don't know about that forgiveness that actually help people. Right. And they think that they're scaring you out of drunk driving again. And especially if someone doesn't have like a real addiction, I'm sure it does actually scare them out of drunk driving again because they have some control over that. But what was so interesting is the one that my husband was assigned to. He's sitting in this little audience of other DUI people like himself. And then on the stage what looks like a family comes out.
Lisa Stanton [00:41:00]:
So like a mom, a dad and a son come out and they start telling the mom and dad start telling the story about they had a 16 year old daughter and like parents worst Nightmare, right? Two police come to their door, knock on it like their daughter was out with friends. They opened the door and they said, like, they knew right away that something bad had happened. And then the police end up telling them that a guy had basically, like, hit their daughter head on. He was drinking. She died instantly at the scene. And the dad was, like, at the door mainly, and the mom was listening from the top of the stairs. And she, like, had slowly started coming down as the cops are telling the story. And then she gets to the bottom of the stairs and she's like, what are you doing about him? And they're like, he's in jail, ma'am.
Lisa Stanton [00:41:45]:
Like, he's gonna get the highest sentence, whatever. And she's like, what is this bail? And they're like, it's not. Like, it's not set yet. Of course it takes longer than that, but, like, I promise it'll be really high, whatever. And she was like, no, what is his bail? And she basically ends up in that moment, God, just put it on her heart to, like, bail him out, let him live with you in the daughter's room. Because he didn't. He was, like, homeless, you know, like a troubled youth, essentially. He didn't have anywhere to stay.
Lisa Stanton [00:42:13]:
He's drinking, whatever on the condition that he doesn't drink, he doesn't use drugs, he doesn't whatever. And it was this. The mom and the dad talked about this dichotomy of like, mom had come to this profound place of grace and forgiveness. Dad wanted to effing kill the guy who killed his daughter, but the guy is living in his house, and the wife is the one who invited him to live into his house. And it talked about the grace of forgiveness. And then the dad talked about working through getting to the place of forgiveness that his wife had modeled for him and the son on the stage with the guy. And they're now like a family. And they travel together and talk about sometimes these mad panels, but they also have a ministry around forgiveness of just, like, major accidents and things that happen to people.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:42:56]:
I have full body chills. That is so. God. Nobody would do that from their practical, worldly view.
Lisa Stanton [00:43:03]:
No, you're supposed to be mad. It's justified that you could be mad. That's why forgiveness is so cool, is because then just by me hearing that story 20 years later, me putting the story in my book, me telling you, it's a level of forgiveness that I think sometimes we put caps on. Like, what's allowed to be forgiven? What's allowed to really Totally be let go. And that's like one of the highest.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:43:27]:
Bars of totally healed the dad's what would have destroyed him in anger and bitterness. Her act of grace and mercy and listening to the Holy Spirit guide probably saved him from a disastrous life.
Lisa Stanton [00:43:45]:
Yeah. She was stressing, there is nothing special about me. I just turned to God in that moment. So like we all have that ability to forgive. We just have to be able to actually tap into that ability forgive. So in business and whatever, if someone purposely does something, if someone accidentally does something, it's like, can I get to this place of like, okay, if that mom can forgive, that I can forgive.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:44:12]:
Whatever feeling my formula for my products.
Lisa Stanton [00:44:14]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:44:17]:
But so much of business is rooted in competition that we don't immediately go to grace and mercy and forgiveness. And that's what I want to change is the belief that you can have a robust, successful, prosperous business without being cutthroat and competitive. Because what ultimately happens when you use that competitive mindset and the external, whether you're talking about market share or customers in your industry, you got to make sure you beat the competition is if you're going to try to outwardly do that by nature, you're going to inwardly do that with your employees and the people that you work with. It's very unusual that you would take a paradigm and a belief in one part of the business and it not infiltrate the other. Which is why a lot of cultures you'll see that are highly regulated cultures for medicine, pharmaceutical things that have to have a lot of rigor. And you'll find that same kind of rigor inside the organization where there's lots of controls about the people and lots of that. It starts to be how you. We don't see the world as it is, we see the world as we are.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:45:27]:
And so how we see it externally with customers, we start to believe that on the inside too.
Lisa Stanton [00:45:32]:
Interesting. Yeah. I mean that makes a lot of sense. If I just look at my life and how it's gone over time, and especially when I don't even realize the things that I'm in. Right. Like the first step of even beginning to look at things differently is even realizing that I'm looking at things in a certain way because I'm so used to looking at them that I don't even know that I'm looking.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:45:54]:
Which made sense to me when you were talking about the patterns of confusion. Because our brains are always. Our brains believe that same equals safe homeostasis. And so if something has dysregulation in there, the confusion about the divorce, the confusion about these beliefs, then it overstimulates your brain trying to satisfy the confusion, which is what gets you angry because you're like, this is overstimulating me now. I'm angry because I couldn't satisfy that in my own pattern and brain. Yeah. We are a weird, fascinating set of cells that God created. And that's the other thing I love, is it's not separate.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:46:35]:
God created our nervous systems. And if you look at the way the nervous system is designed, you can go to the Bible and find it validated like, a gazillion ways.
Lisa Stanton [00:46:43]:
Like, yeah, separate. Yeah. No, definitely not. Oh, it's all related.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:46:49]:
It's all related. Okay, so I want to keep this conversation going. You've got new stuff coming out. You've got new things that you're doing in addition to this job thing that's going to be happening. How can we stay in touch with you? So somebody's listening today. They're like, oh, my gosh, I love her Instagram. Which is it? It's Dr. Lisa Stanton.
Lisa Stanton [00:47:10]:
Yeah, I always say the easiest place is. Actually, my website is just drlisastanton.com and then you can get to Instagram, you can get to substack, you can get to events, you can get to everything podcast. Like, I have a little list of podcasts I've been on, so the link to this will be right there, too. So drlisastanton.com is the easiest. And then, yeah, DrLisaStanton on Instagram and Substack. And I have, like three videos on TikTok. I'm too old.
Lisa Stanton [00:47:39]:
I don't know. Maybe I'm just not. Not built for it. Either way, if you find me there, don't expect much from that. I, like, go back and forth about deleting it all the time because it's so. I'm so bad at it that I almost am just like, why do. Why have it?
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:47:53]:
I get it. I just post the little clips from all the interviews. They automatically post to TikTok, but every once in a while, I'll just throw something random out there. My son's stuff is out there on my page sometimes. But yeah, it's not where I hope people form their opinions about me.
Lisa Stanton [00:48:09]:
Yeah, yeah. So find me there.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:48:12]:
If you find you there, then jump over to Instagram. I'm sure they're linked, right. And see the real you. That's where I found you. And so what's the next project other than figuring out about this new job? That you're starting is. Is there already a book in the works? A second book in the works?
Lisa Stanton [00:48:28]:
I have a second book written already. Yeah. So we'll just see. I've talked to many other people in the traditional publishing route. I don't have a clue how many books I sold because they only have to tell me once a quarter. People are like, how's it doing? Like, I don't know.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:48:43]:
I don't know either. Yeah.
Lisa Stanton [00:48:45]:
So we'll see how all of it goes. There is a second book written. I mean, like, the. The people that already like me have requested it, but of course. Yeah. I'm like, are those thousand people, like, telling 10,000 other people and then there'll be another book? Or are those just, like, the fans that I got? And then who knows? God knows. I don't know.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:49:05]:
Yeah.
Lisa Stanton [00:49:05]:
But there's a second book already written, and I feel like it's going to come out in some way or another. I'm just not really sure what the plan for that is. But I feel like it's just been this ongoing. Like, I just started a substack, like, four months ago, and that's been cool because it's directly emailed to people, whereas I feel like people can kind of miss things on social just because there's. The algorithms put stuff out randomly. I feel like I'm almost spending more time on substack than Instagram now.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:49:32]:
So that just confirmed a prayer that I had this morning because I. People keep following me on substack, but I haven't been putting anything out. And I was like, lord, do you want me to start writing on substack? Like, why do I keep getting these messages about substack? Like, is this a real thing? Should I start doing that instead of some of the stuff I'm doing on social? Like, just make it clear. And then you just brought it up again.
Lisa Stanton [00:49:53]:
I'm like, people are a lot nicer.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:49:56]:
There, too, if that makes a difference to you. Yes. I've gotten to the point where it's like, I'm probably gonna make some people mad, and I'm okay with that too.
Lisa Stanton [00:50:03]:
But.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:50:03]:
Yeah, and I love to write, so that's.
Lisa Stanton [00:50:06]:
Oh, yeah, you should. I feel like I. Even though the mad people are, like, not as mean, they're.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:50:12]:
They're less mad, or they just, like, they're just.
Lisa Stanton [00:50:15]:
Because it's like, a longer form medium, people tend to, like, write you a paragraph when they're mad. So at least you have the context and not just like, this is stupid and you're like, my outfit, what I said, my face.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:50:28]:
Like, I love that they're less mad. And they're going to give you a full paragraph on why they're mad so you have the context of why they're mad.
Lisa Stanton [00:50:35]:
Yeah. Which sometimes is actually great for creativity. When someone like, this is stupid doesn't help me, like, think harder about another article that I should write. But when someone really has a thing where they're like, hey, these are the parts of this. Like, actually an example is from the book. One of the things is basically like, another day of sobriety shouldn't be your goal. And people are just like, you shouldn't say that because people are gonna. And I'm like, my point is aimed toward Jesus and sobriety will come.
Lisa Stanton [00:51:04]:
Don't aim towards sobriety because you can. If you're aiming towards sobriety, you can like chew nicotine gum in your bed and not get out of bed for a full day. And like, you got another day sober, but you haven't actually, like, gotten anywhere closer to heaven or God or anything. But like, instead of people just like looking at the title on the screen, not even reading what I actually said and saying, this is stupid. If someone has a critique, they'll. It'll be a whole paragraph that then I can be like, oh, well, maybe there's a longer form way for me to explain the thought that I'm having where I can actually reach more people instead of just being like, that person is having a bad day.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:51:40]:
Yeah, no, that's good. I love that idea. And I'm always talking about context. That's what's missing from social media is there's zero context about anybody's life.
Lisa Stanton [00:51:49]:
Just, yeah.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:51:50]:
Judgment and opinions.
Lisa Stanton [00:51:52]:
Yeah.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:51:52]:
I want you to come back and tell us how the job's going.
Lisa Stanton [00:51:56]:
So amazing.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:51:57]:
Your calendar. In six months, we're going to do a job review and see how things are going.
Lisa Stanton [00:52:02]:
Where's she at? Or was this a six week plan? And how was this assignment?
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:52:06]:
Who knows? Keep us posted. Yeah. Thank you for jumping on. I reached out on Instagram and we didn't know each other at all. And I just said, I love this whole surrender thing that you're doing. Come talk about it. And you did, and I appreciate it.
Lisa Stanton [00:52:21]:
Amazing. It's been so great to meet you.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:52:23]:
You too. All right, well, we're friends now, so let's stay in touch.
Lisa Stanton [00:52:26]:
Yeah.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:52:27]:
All right, take care. Bye. Thanks for being here. You can follow us on Instagram. Business is Human or TikTok. Rebecca Fleetwood Hession. It's a great way to share some of the clips with your colleagues and friends. All right. Make it a great day. Love you, mean it.