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In this episode, David is joined by Studio Demands It hosts T.C. De Witt and Jim Burzelic as they continue their deep dive into The Legend of Zelda cartoon from 1989. They break down two more ridiculous (and oddly entertaining) episodes, discussing the show's wild storytelling choices, unexpected lore connections, and Link’s never-ending quest for a kiss. From analyzing Ganon’s latest schemes to reimagining how this series could have been done differently, this episode is packed with laughs, nostalgia, and some surprising insights.
Start from the beginning: "Well, Excuse Me Princess! - Part 1"
Find a bunch of great extras on our Patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/anotherzeldapodcast
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Other shows by Sixfive Media:
The Studio Demands It! - Two screenwriters attempt to recreate, reimagine, or flat out fix, existing film franchises when 'the studio' demands
Other shows by Sixfive Media:
The Studio Demands It! - Two screenwriters attempt to recreate, reimagine, or flat out fix, existing film franchises when 'the studio' demands
...MORE FILMS!
See all Sixfive Media shows here: sixfive.media
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The views, information, or opinions expressed during Another Zelda Podcast are solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily represent those of Sixfive Media and its employees.
This has been a production of Sixfive Media.
COPYRIGHT 2025 SIXFIVE MEDIA, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
═════════════
The views, information, or opinions expressed during Another Zelda Podcast are solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily represent those of Sixfive Media and its employees.
This has been a production of Sixfive Media.
COPYRIGHT 2025 SIXFIVE MEDIA, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
Creators & Guests
What is Another Zelda Podcast?
It’s a secret to everybody. | Another Zelda Podcast is a show wherein we talk about all things regarding The Legend of Zelda series!
Hello and welcome to another Zelda podcast. I'm David your host for this episode. I am not with my regular co host Katie today. No. I am instead wonderful impression of Katie there, TC.
David Geisler:I am instead here with the cast of Studio Demands In, another 65 show. I know. Kinda cool to say it that way. Right? Yeah.
David Geisler:TC DeWitt, how are you? You've certainly been on the the show before. My our listeners are familiar with you.
T.C. De Witt:I am happy to be back. This is great. Thanks for thanks for letting me, do our annual crossover once again.
David Geisler:The annual crossover is so cool. We've had a bit of a theme in a in almost an anthology series where we have this kind well, not anthology. But, anyways, the Excuse Me Princess episodes is what we've been doing. We're doing it for
T.C. De Witt:Excuse me, princess.
David Geisler:Did you hear about our, we got some listener feedback after that first episode that people were freaking out. They thought that you totally nailed the excuse me.
T.C. De Witt:You're welcome. You're welcome.
David Geisler:We were getting a lot of commentary on our Discord about that. People love your excuse me. TC, thank you so much. And also, we have a very special situation. The first two times we did our excuse me princess episodes, it was just you and I.
David Geisler:And then we got lucky. We there was just a joining of schedules and the most recent one or maybe it was 2 back, I'm just gonna forget now. Dan from fan fiction was able to join with us and the 3 of us talked, watched a couple episodes and talked. But this time, we have your other cohost from Studio Demands It here, my better half, mister Jim Brezelik. Jim, how are you?
Jim Burzelic:It's me.
David Geisler:I'm I'm good. This is your first time on AZP. Thank you for being here. I'm so
Jim Burzelic:excited. It feels amazing.
David Geisler:Let's see. The 2 of you have come into the city. We've made a bunch of different podcasts. You've you've gone on a couple of adventures. We've we've had various different kinds of pizzas.
David Geisler:We've had Mhmm. Chicago style and New York style, a plethora of pizza here. We've been hanging out. We're gonna hang out tonight a little bit. Y'all met my cohost, Katie, just last night.
T.C. De Witt:That's why I was able to do such an accurate impression
David Geisler:of it. That's what it was. I thought she was here. Actually, I got a little confused. Yeah.
David Geisler:And so thank you so much for I don't think there's a single another Zelda podcast listener that doesn't know what studio demand it is just because we talk about it so much and there's so many ads. But we also have had a lot of new listeners this season. So Mhmm. For some of the new people and maybe just for some of the people that have been hearing the ads and and and and just need an extra little push to go check out the show Yeah. What the heck is studio the studio demands us?
T.C. De Witt:Thank you for asking. Go ahead, Jim.
Jim Burzelic:It's our podcast.
David Geisler:Nailed it. So this week, we're gonna wait a minute. Wait a minute.
T.C. De Witt:I recognize that guy's voice. I've skipped that ad so many times.
David Geisler:We we have a low skip rate. It only drops down about 10% during the ads by the end of the week. Aw. That's sweetheart. Excellent.
David Geisler:Well, there's all those wonderful jokes you guys bring to the what else we got for him, Jim? We got we got Frozen 2. We got and actually, it's funny when you recorded it Frozen 2 hadn't come out yet, so now, but it's still in the ad, but it's okay. Whatever. It doesn't matter.
Jim Burzelic:Yeah. So Studio Demands It is a podcast where, we, we do I start with we or what you do? Where where you, the audience, send in demands, for for movies. Basically, we are writers, and we think we can I'm basically just trying to do your your interest. You know, I am fumbling right now.
David Geisler:I hope you a bit. The 2 of you are real world writers in California, screenwriters and and the like, and you've certainly, have other skills as well. But as screenwriters, I think you have some fun with the show and you take these ridiculous pitches. The pitches usually come from the audience, actually always come from the audience. And when they,
T.C. De Witt:of course 95% have come from the audience. Some of them have come from each other.
Jim Burzelic:Once in a while. Yeah.
David Geisler:Fair enough. Now let's see you do this.
T.C. De Witt:Yeah. Fair
David Geisler:enough. But then within about an hour, hour and a half, the 2 of you pitch an entire 3 act script, a whole a whole concept of this what could feel like an impossible pitch. Just terrible ideas for movies. And as an exercise in screenwriting, the 2 of you try to come through. Exactly.
T.C. De Witt:Yeah. It's a it's a screenwriting show at its core, and it's it comes from Jim and I being massive cinephiles and writers ourselves, and we just talk we see films and then question, well, why did they do that? Well, what would we do? Which is basic lunchroom conversation that everyone has.
Jim Burzelic:Everyone has, like, the, oh, I wanted it. I did this, man. Or it should have done they should have done this, and it all kinda came out of well, clearly, somebody had a different idea A studio demand. A studio demand. Yeah.
Jim Burzelic:And that demand won out, so they had to do it this way. Knowing that you have to do certain things that you may not like, how do you craft a movie incorporating these bad obstacles Mhmm. While still making it good and fun.
David Geisler:Yeah. One of the standouts was, like, The Rock 2, but you still had to have Sean Sean Connery in it or something. Oh, god.
T.C. De Witt:Going back to season 1. Yeah.
David Geisler:Yeah. Yeah. That was a classic one. Actually, I'd like to I wasn't planning on this, but TC, I remember the phone call, let's say, it might have been a FaceTime or video call. The phone call where you kind of pitch the idea studio demands it to me.
David Geisler:Mhmm. It's really, really early days of 6:5. But I've never asked you this. And since you're both here, what was that conversation like between the 2 of you coming up with the idea for the show?
T.C. De Witt:It would Jim was the Jim started Kinda.
Jim Burzelic:Yeah. Really? It was so we were The
T.C. De Witt:origin the origin of the of the show. Here we go. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead.
Jim Burzelic:We were hanging out watching and and and TC put on Star Trek Into Darkness.
David Geisler:Okay.
Jim Burzelic:And the whole time I actually, at first, the reason he put it on is because we were complaining about it, and he was complaining. He's like, I hate this movie. I hate that they decided to do this and this. I would never do that. And, like and and so I said, well, okay, TC.
Jim Burzelic:But clearly, that's what the oh, I keep bumping the mic. It's okay. Clearly, that's what they were gonna do. So
T.C. De Witt:Someone told them.
Jim Burzelic:So, yeah, someone told them you have to do con. That's clearly the most popular thing. It's not that JJ Abrams was like, oh, I must do this. No one will stand in my way. Or maybe it was, but it really seemed like it wasn't.
Jim Burzelic:Like, somebody at Paramount said, do this story next. And or even if they didn't, that's what Paramount would tell TC if he were put in charge of making Star Trek Into Darkness. Hey, TC. Mhmm. Do a con story.
Jim Burzelic:And so now you have to incorporate that. So then he spent the next 2 hours
David Geisler:The whole movie.
Jim Burzelic:While watching the movie describing how he would incorporate this idea he hated Yeah. Into the center of a movie that he is trying to love. Mhmm.
David Geisler:And and I I should say earlier, I said terrible pitches, but really, like, challenging pitches. Challenging on purpose. They're, like, challenging on purpose. You know?
Jim Burzelic:Yeah.
David Geisler:Yeah.
T.C. De Witt:And so we we spent the entire the movie was like, the credits were rolling, and we had this great hypothetical conversation. This conversation about this hypothetical Mhmm. Crafting the beats of the screenplay or whatnot. And and as the credits are rolling, Jim, you turned to me and said, could this be a show? Yeah.
T.C. De Witt:Could this is this a thing? Did we just come up with a thing?
David Geisler:Like like you both are just sitting on the couch together and that's Yeah.
T.C. De Witt:Like, literally in in the living room. I remember exactly where we're sitting at the time.
David Geisler:At this point, had I reached out to you saying, like, hey, TC, you got any ideas?
T.C. De Witt:No. No. Okay. You hadn't reached out
Jim Burzelic:to me yet. I don't know that that's necessarily true because I know for it wasn't, like, incessant, but, like, for the the, like, 2 months previous, something like that, you had been talking about, like, doing a podcast. Like, what
T.C. De Witt:could we do? Yeah. Yeah.
David Geisler:I had very open
Jim Burzelic:to it because I was, like, like and, like, every idea that was kinda coming out was, like, we're gonna exhaust that so fast. That's gonna be, like, what, 3 episodes of a thing, and then I won't have anything to say anymore.
David Geisler:So, like Oh, Oh, sorry. Yes. Pardon me?
Jim Burzelic:I I I this is how I talk. I just kinda peter out. Yeah. So so I I I I was shooting all these ideas down, but that idea, like, oh, we we fixed quote unquote Star Trek. Yeah.
Jim Burzelic:We talk like this all the time.
David Geisler:Could this be a tough easily
Jim Burzelic:talk like this on mic.
David Geisler:So this is starting to come back to me now. I actually remember what's going on here. I think I reached out to you for TC kind of vaguely at first just basically saying, like, I got an idea. I got an idea to make a production company where all the shows are gonna support each other and blah blah blah blah blah blah. And we were kind of my first pitch to TC was like, hey.
David Geisler:You know that one other project you were working on? What about if it's something like that? And we kinda went back and forth just a little bit. It was like on the burner. And I actually remember the conversation now.
David Geisler:You came to me and said, well, actually, there's kind of this podcast idea that I've been tossing
T.C. De Witt:around. Yes. Yes. Yes.
David Geisler:And it was probably because the 2 of you. It was probably those 2 months time where that was starting to come together. Yeah. I'm realizing.
T.C. De Witt:And not not only is Jim correct in that this is evergreen territory, because we there's an endless amount of movies for us to be pointed at and do something with. We even did I I had done the rewatchman podcast for 5 years or so, and I had a rule about anytime I started a project that was gonna be a podcast or a YouTube series or whatnot, which was I would set a certain number before I started actually pushing it. Like, let's see if we have the wherewithal to do 10 episodes.
David Geisler:So you would, like, actually produce 10 before publishing
T.C. De Witt:the thing? Well, even if I publish that, I wouldn't, like, start talking to people about it
David Geisler:because I
T.C. De Witt:wouldn't wanna be, like, I got a new show, and then episode 3 is the last one.
David Geisler:Got it.
T.C. De Witt:With with, Studio Demands It, it was, let's let's see if we can do it Mhmm. And let's see what comes of it. So we did it. You said, we'll do an episode 0. Yep.
T.C. De Witt:Episode 0 is episode 1. It's Die Hard. And It
David Geisler:was a great episode. Yeah. It's That was that I listened to that episode, and I was like, yeah. This is a show. This works.
David Geisler:This is great.
T.C. De Witt:Yeah. And, and and just right right from the get and we've we've just recently hit our 100th episode in season 5 here, which was such a monumental, wonderful, beautiful thing. And looking back at the history of the show, it became itself pretty much immediately.
David Geisler:Yeah.
T.C. De Witt:It it is evolved in tiny ways. We we have found a way to and we don't have to keep going on too much about our show because people here to talk
David Geisler:about Zelda. Time.
T.C. De Witt:But something that Jim and I we don't want to trash films just to trash them. We don't hate movies just to hate them. And we know the difficulty of producing a film. So we don't come in with too much cynicism. I don't think we we that's diff not cynicism forward.
T.C. De Witt:Well, yeah.
David Geisler:No. I agree with you. I see where you're going with that too because, you know, it's not part one of the things I'm trying to do with the 65 production company is find ways to celebrate things.
T.C. De Witt:Yes. And
David Geisler:that's Can we celebrate a video game? Can we celebrate screenwriting? Can we celebrate some quirky engineering thing? Can we celebrate Pokemon? Can we celebrate all the, you know, celebration?
David Geisler:Yes. It's okay to have a critical eye sometimes and sometimes you need to do that. Yes. And it's interesting with your show because I remember in the early days I was talking about it and I said I really wanna stay away from like toxic fandom. It's real easy.
T.C. De Witt:Not easy with some of the IPs we tackle.
David Geisler:Well, right. But I think you guys do it with tact. And I remember I remember there was, like, maybe the 5th or 6th episode. There was one time where I sent you a note and I was, like, loved it. It was just scraping.
David Geisler:So So just keep that dialed in.
T.C. De Witt:Every now and then we will get close to spending too much time criticizing. I have I whatever. But but but
David Geisler:the point but the point I wanted to, like, to finish making is that, you know, then right there on a dime, you're able to you had such control over the show and the premise of the show. It was like, okay. Cool. We just polish it a little bit this way or that way. And Yeah.
David Geisler:It's just been fantastic.
T.C. De Witt:It's thank you. And it's never I at least I the way I approach it, it's never look at these idiots. What did they do? It's Mhmm. Well, what would we do?
David Geisler:What would we do? Yeah. And sometimes, what even when you do sometimes your demands that come in are fantasy. There's there's not there's something that didn't happen.
T.C. De Witt:More often than that these days.
David Geisler:Yeah. Yeah. That's true. Sometimes it's like another sequel of this series. Where would you go?
David Geisler:Cool. Fine. Sometimes you do one of those and a year or 2 later that sequel really does come out. It's kinda interesting to see the differences and similarities. One of my favorites is still your Star Wars 10 episode.
David Geisler:We Oh, yes. We get a lot of feedback on the Star Wars 10 episode. I thought it was brilliant, honestly. Even fan fiction Dan was raving about in one of his episodes. Awesome.
David Geisler:Thank you, Dan. Anyways, yes. Yes. There are also times where requests are, like, go back and remake that one film from the whatever.
T.C. De Witt:Like, what went wrong with Wonder Woman in 1980 5? 84? 84. Yeah.
David Geisler:What went wrong
T.C. De Witt:with Wonder Woman in 1984? You guys have to make that movie now tweak like, do the second do the next draft of the screenplay.
Jim Burzelic:Yeah.
David Geisler:Yeah. Yeah. And so it's cool. So, again, yes. It is.
David Geisler:It's it's it's a It's a celebration. It's a celebration of screenwriting. And whenever you are a a A good school. Whenever you're an artist working for clients, there's always demands that go both directions, whether you're a designer or anything, any kind of gig. And so I also think that at its best, studio demands it is also a fun way to exercise that muscle of still being able to create some art even with sometimes things that are getting fed back in a way that maybe you wouldn't write if you had all the tools in the world.
T.C. De Witt:Which brings us to looking at this cartoon Let's
David Geisler:do it.
T.C. De Witt:Over these years because Thank you
David Geisler:for hosting my show and sticking it in because I was actually going off the rails there. Well, it's
T.C. De Witt:just a matter of looking at this cartoon, which is so insane, and going, what what what were they thinking? Well, let's give them the benefit of doubting. And you are always quick to go, oh, that's that's a thing from the game. They're they're actually referencing this. They're actually referencing that.
T.C. De Witt:And and my curiosity before we get into any further about the jokes that we watch is, Jim, have you seen this cartoon before?
Jim Burzelic:Yeah. You
T.C. De Witt:have. You actually watched it.
Jim Burzelic:I I don't know if I've watched all of it, but I remember watching it when it was airing. Wow. Woah. Iron Hyman old man.
David Geisler:Look at this man.
T.C. De Witt:I think we're all
David Geisler:pretty dang close to the same age. I remember catching it once or twice by accident on a Friday because I turned the TV on at the right time. Mhmm. And and I think I was a little scared by it back
Jim Burzelic:then actually. Oh, I I was I wanted more of it because I I didn't know you had you had mentioned, as we're setting up and stuff, like, the schedule that it had and you weren't cognizant enough of of schedules That's a
David Geisler:small channel.
Jim Burzelic:To find it. Yeah. I wasn't either. I was like, when is this when is Zelda gonna be on?
T.C. De Witt:Right.
Jim Burzelic:I got enough Mario here. When's Zelda gonna be on? Because I I thought it was a show, paired like like Looney Tunes or or or one of those where it was 2 episodes Yes. Where it usually was. There's 2 episodes in an episode.
Jim Burzelic:Yep. But I always thought it was Mario and Zelda. You get one of each, but it wasn't.
David Geisler:For some reason, it was Mario on Monday, Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays, and then the Friday was the Zelda episode. Mhmm. And and I think also weirdly, even though it was the Zelda cartoon episodes, it still had the the headers and the mids with the Mario brother live action actors.
T.C. De Witt:Yes. It did. Yeah. Oh,
David Geisler:weird. Yep. But that's what it was. Yeah. That's what it was.
David Geisler:So, I I will say, Jim, something that you probably haven't been privy to yet is that TC and I have been on a little bit of an emotional journey with this show.
Jim Burzelic:Okay. But
David Geisler:the first time we watched it, and I do think the show has changed a little bit as it's developed through the season.
T.C. De Witt:Or we've been beaten into submission.
David Geisler:Well, and that's the kind of the journey we're on. We're trying to figure out. We the first episode, excuse me princess part 1 from 4 years ago on on season 5 or 4 of AZP or whatever that ended up or whatever it was, we were like, this is blasphemy. This is terrible. Oh my gosh.
David Geisler:It's it's, so it's so inappropriate. Look at link is gaslighting left and right and Zelda, you know, Zelda has no agency and how could we is this what
Jim Burzelic:we were teaching our children back then?
David Geisler:And and the first full episode was us like really processing it. It was it was actually pretty intense. We laughed a little bit here and there, but it was like, what? This is what was wrong
Jim Burzelic:with TV and this is why we have problems
David Geisler:in the world. Alright. Fine. Wow. I
Jim Burzelic:mean, I'm on your pulpit. Yeah.
David Geisler:Yippee, I was leading it a little bit more, but I think we both had really we definitely noticed some really I guess we just, you know, it's been a couple decades and and maybe that is what TV was back then. Mhmm. Then we watched the next year. We watched the next 3 episodes and we were like, woof, baboon, still pretty bad. But then we were kinda thinking to ourselves, like, I don't know.
David Geisler:It wasn't as bad. You know, like, Link wasn't as weird. Link wasn't as cringe. And then we kinda got to the one with Dan or something like that, and we were Zelda had actual
T.C. De Witt:she, like, took charge, and then there's a little bit of, like, retroactive thinking going, I guess she's always been not not always, but she does take the the initiative more often than Link does. Link does a lot of, like,
Jim Burzelic:I guess I'll be the hero.
David Geisler:Yeah. Kiss. He spends his whole just just to break everything, TC. It's okay. If you don't mind, just bumping up the show.
David Geisler:Just brought Naka over all the Zelda things on these shelves. Okay. I'll put it here. No. It's perfectly fine.
David Geisler:Actually, I gotta redo a lot of this. But, anyways, so thank you for knocking half of it down. You're totally joking. Totally joking. One thing fell
Jim Burzelic:with Joy Con. I'm not joking.
T.C. De Witt:She was giving me a new
Jim Burzelic:Yes. Yes. Like, I ground the podcast to a halt.
David Geisler:So with all that said though, Jim
T.C. De Witt:Excuse me, princess.
David Geisler:You know, we've been kind of getting a little lighter on the show every time we watch to the point where when we watch this time, I think we were kinda like, classic link. Yeah. You know what I mean? And so it's been weird for us. So you did watch it as a kid Sure.
David Geisler:Yeah. Rewatching it as an adult, and I can't tell if these episodes were tamer or a little bit more well rounded or a little sillier.
T.C. De Witt:I think we get one of each. I think one was a little stronger than the other because there's there the 2 episodes we watched you know what the titles I'm in? Oh, let's see if I remember correctly.
David Geisler:A Hitch in the Works Yeah. And then, fairies in the spring.
T.C. De Witt:Fairies in spring. And it I don't know. I think there is equally uneven as some of them are because you point out hitch in the works, the hitch doesn't even happen till 10 minutes in.
David Geisler:Yeah. How did the hitch in the works start? Oh, it was the was
T.C. De Witt:it the robot? The robots that Yeah. Do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do
Jim Burzelic:do do do do do do do do. There was doof. Actually, the the hitch happens pretty fast. The thing is it right? It's a double meaning.
Jim Burzelic:The robot wasn't working right. There was a hitch in the works.
David Geisler:Yep.
Jim Burzelic:And then,
David Geisler:And there was also a hitch in the works. Yeah.
Jim Burzelic:Ganon decided, today's the day I need to marry Zelda.
David Geisler:That's our
T.C. De Witt:love. Strictly for economic reasons.
Jim Burzelic:Or more power.
David Geisler:That's actually what he says. Yeah. It's pretty close, actually. He's like, and then I'll have all the power.
Jim Burzelic:Yeah. So so I guess, technically, the title was there early. They they did a parallel. You know, getting married just like a robot actually functioning.
David Geisler:What was your, initial kind of emotional I know TC we were all kinda talking as we were watching it. But what was your initial takeaway watching something like this again? Now? Yeah. Watching it again?
Jim Burzelic:Like, man, what what was I watching as
David Geisler:a kid? Okay. Okay. Okay.
Jim Burzelic:Because I remember like, you're talking about agency and stuff like that. I remember as a kid watching and being like, Zelda has this stuff together. She doesn't need Link. I wanna see her go on an adventure.
T.C. De Witt:Yeah. Yeah.
Jim Burzelic:That's what I remember thinking as a kid. Wow. Watching it now. I see what you guys are saying, but at the same time, there's also things that are happening there that you know that, it was an adult thinking what would appeal to an to a child Yeah. Because Link is very much, like, Tom Sawyer.
Jim Burzelic:Right? Like, he's very much the I'm painting a white fence, and I don't wanna do this. How do I get out of this?
David Geisler:And with
Jim Burzelic:the characters that are available, it's not that he's gaslighting a woman. It's that he's gaslighting whoever's there.
David Geisler:Yeah. It's Yeah. Okay. Yeah. There was, like, in the first early episodes, there was borderline assault where he was, like, scooching time and tried to jump
Jim Burzelic:on her.
David Geisler:Literally jumps on her until she rolls away and stuff like that. But nevertheless, yeah, I know.
Jim Burzelic:Okay. Well, I get I wasn't there for that.
David Geisler:So Your point is no. That I'm I'm I'm bringing that to add context, not to say that you're right or wrong or anything else.
Jim Burzelic:Well, gosh. I don't I don't I don't know how to how to explain that one away.
T.C. De Witt:Well, I mean, we we couldn't help but notice how ample her butt was drawn in a couple of those
Jim Burzelic:That's kinda true.
T.C. De Witt:That's objectify Zelda, but, you know.
David Geisler:She I I think it's I, you know, I probably saw it a few times as an a I
T.C. De Witt:made it weirder than you did.
David Geisler:You did. If I would've yeah.
Jim Burzelic:1 up and ship.
David Geisler:I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if I
Jim Burzelic:could speak to how she's drawn it.
T.C. De Witt:You don't have to. I was Yeah.
David Geisler:No. But, there was one joke about, like, someone said something like, oh, I think maybe she invented yoga pants. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jim Burzelic:Yeah. Because she was very detailed. Sure. I but I guess my reaction watching it now was sort of in that context of, like, children aren't gonna pick up these things we're saying. Like like
T.C. De Witt:They just see the flashing, like, oh, oh, bang bang. Oh, a sword swinging. Yeah. Jumping through the air.
Jim Burzelic:How about a smooch princess? Like, even that doesn't maybe maybe I'm wrong. Maybe that actually is toxic for children to see. But I think there there's, like, that registers as, oh, yes. Boys boys like girls, and at the very least, he's asking.
Jim Burzelic:Right? Oh, my gosh.
David Geisler:Oh, my gosh.
Jim Burzelic:It it it just it just seem not not more in I feel like
T.C. De Witt:What the hell were you watching as a kid?
Jim Burzelic:Yeah. Pretty much. I guess what I'm saying is a lot of the, terrible things that were like, oh my god. This is what we're showing? Kids aren't like, that's not registering to children.
Jim Burzelic:I know there are people that argue that it's still sinking in.
David Geisler:Yeah. Maybe there's, like, subtle or subtext and just we're informing context.
Jim Burzelic:And and so maybe that that is still definitely a problem. But but watching, I I didn't think, I didn't think the lesson kids would get is, shirking your responsibilities and and chores isn't fun. It's it's more like, oh, this character feels the way I do about it. Mhmm. And he's a rapscallion, so he's gonna try doing these things.
Jim Burzelic:And or maybe I was just a good kid, so I wasn't like, well, I'm not gonna imitate that.
David Geisler:Yeah. I said, oh, it said like, oh, I'm taking notes. Alright. Cool. Interesting.
David Geisler:Interesting. How did you feel about the episode structures?
Jim Burzelic:I I didn't think about that as I was watching. Right now Hitch in the Works is is clearer in my mind Yeah. And I know we were we were laughing as we were watching it, but honestly, I think structure wise, it's actually pretty good. Yeah? Like, despite the weird thing, like, randomly introducing characters that we've never seen before, but they're they're all behaving like, oh, they're they're just they're there every day.
Jim Burzelic:Yeah. That was a weird thing to do from an adult's perspective of, like, we're gonna learn a story. But for a kid, just say, okay. Yeah. There's a weird castle wizard.
David Geisler:Yeah. Weird castle wizard we're in. Everybody wasn't in the games. Yeah.
T.C. De Witt:That afternoon or if this was played in the morning, like, in the on in recess on the playground, it'd be like, some kids, like, I'm gonna play Doof. Well, who's Doof? Oh, did you did you see the new stuff? So he's an inventor. And then that little kid robot.
Jim Burzelic:That little Yeah.
T.C. De Witt:And that little kid's gonna come up with a whole explanation for a character we see for all of, like, 5 minutes. But he's like, oh, he's just like crazy inventor, and he makes robots out of material. That's it. And they kinda look like and and that little kid energy is going to build out this whole character. So And
Jim Burzelic:who's to say they wouldn't correlate the old man in the cave with Doof, the the
David Geisler:wizard character? Yeah. Yeah. You're right. Yeah.
David Geisler:It's like they already doing, like, analogs with that sometimes. The, one thing that reminds me about a little bit of structure in introducing things out of nowhere was in the fairies in the spring episode. We all noticed that some really convenient plot holes were solved with dialogue in the 3rd act of the, you know, the 10th minute of the episode.
T.C. De Witt:We haven't seen Sprite for ages. Yeah. Oh, I'm back from that vacation
David Geisler:I told you about. That's exactly what she says. I'm back from the vacation. And then, like, another character says, wait. This must be the colony of of fairy sprite has always mentioned.
David Geisler:Yeah. Or something. And it's like, what that wasn't even that wasn't even set up in the first act or anything like that. Woah.
Jim Burzelic:That is such that's an amazing tool I need to remember if I ever write children's cartoons.
David Geisler:Mhmm.
Jim Burzelic:Making basically gas lighting the audience into thinking, oh, I must have missed that episode.
T.C. De Witt:So she yeah. She must have talked about an episode I didn't see because this show's not consistently on what I want it to be. So I've missed at least 20. I think probably 20.
David Geisler:That's all. Well, I saw the episodes last Friday, and so now this Friday, I think I've missed about a week of episodes.
Jim Burzelic:Yeah. What's that happened? I wanna I gotta watch this for, like, another year now to catch up.
David Geisler:Yeah. And then also, I do remember as a kid, I can't say exactly what age, I kinda remember watching cartoons and not even fully considering a serial ness to it. Oh, sure. You know, it's just like this is the the cartoon today, and I will watch it. It was really x men that was the first one in probably because we were starting to become, like, 12 year olds that I was really actually starting to track, like, oh, wait.
David Geisler:These episodes connect to each other and stuff
Jim Burzelic:like that.
T.C. De Witt:X men 96, or from the back of it. The nineties X men was one of the first cartoons, at least American cartoons, that did have a linear story line that it was following. The status quo notion of just think about this, GI Joe, Thundercats, Gummy Bears. Like, all those shows have the same setup and execution and return to status quo in every single episode. Because it's just, bad guy do thing to good guy, good guy stop bad guy, back to where they were, repeat.
T.C. De Witt:And then there's no you don't have to watch in any order. Not really. I've recently went back and watched all of DuckTales, all of dark winged duck, all of tailspin, and all of gummy bears. Gummy of those 4, gummy bears does not hold up. It's like watching this.
David Geisler:Gummy bears, I think, was the first one made
T.C. De Witt:out of all of those. I think so too. Yeah. It it predates all of them. And it was the it like, oh, no.
T.C. De Witt:This is this is bad.
David Geisler:It's like we're thinking like the
Jim Burzelic:The best thing was the theme song?
T.C. De Witt:Yeah. Yeah. Yes. And then
David Geisler:maybe that's all you need as a kid. I don't know. Yeah. So, yeah, I think what we'll do is we'll go to break. We'll come back.
David Geisler:We'll dive into some of these a little bit more. We'll talk a little bit more about fairies in the spring and maybe some of the other characters. M and it's it's it's nice to have I think I can speak for myself, but maybe I can speak for TC and I. It is nice to have a third set of eyes on the show because otherwise, I think it would be 20 minutes of TC and I going like, I don't know. Maybe we're just fine with it now.
David Geisler:We yeah. Maybe. You know? You watch you watch, the prequel trilogy enough, and you go, I like it now.
Jim Burzelic:You know what?
T.C. De Witt:Jar Jar is not that annoying.
David Geisler:It's really not that bad? Alright. Alright. We'll go to break. I'll see you all in a little bit.
David Geisler:There's no doubt probably gonna be a Studio demanded ad coming up here.
T.C. De Witt:More of us. Uh-oh.
David Geisler:Okay. We are back from the break and, you know, I think we've established a few different ideas. I really appreciate your thoughts, Jim. Let's, let's just kinda blow it open here and and talk about whatever we want to. I think we've discussed so maybe a very microscopic quick recap, in Hitch in the Works.
David Geisler:Link meets a new character named Doof. Doof is it's down in the dungeon. Doof is really good ish at making robots. Actually that was an episode where Zelda was kind of throwing it at link. She like misunderstood the situation and told him that he was wrong, actually, which is a little bit weird and unhealthy.
Jim Burzelic:And she wasn't well, she wasn't gonna fall for his antics anymore. Right? Suggesting he overcompensating. He, essentially referring to, you've you've done this one too many times. You you you you've cried wolf too much.
Jim Burzelic:I'm not
David Geisler:gonna fall for it. 100%. Because what happens is some Moblins come in and attack Link in the dungeon, let's just say. Mhmm. He defeats them.
David Geisler:They get zipped zapped out of there and then he's on the ground with a mess. She comes in and said, I told you to clean this place up. And he said, no. No. I was fighting Moblins.
David Geisler:And, yeah, she says, I'm done with your cry wolf tactics. You're absolutely right.
T.C. De Witt:Because because he he she catches him plotting to make Moblins so he doesn't have to do work.
David Geisler:Well, immediately after. Yeah. So then he decides, okay. Well, I'll show her that Moblins attacked by having the robot guy make fake ones. Mhmm.
T.C. De Witt:And I'll
David Geisler:show her it happened that it's I'll show her that it does happen
Jim Burzelic:Yeah.
David Geisler:By making fake ones. Yeah. She isn't too far away, overhears that and says, ah, well, I'll show him. Won't be scared of those stupid fake Moblins. Mhmm.
David Geisler:And then, of course, what happens is real Moblins attack again. Yep. They they steal Zelda for the wedding. Yep. Yep.
David Geisler:Link thinks they're the robots. She thinks they're the robots. Actually, they both think they're the robots at first. Yeah. And then she goes, oh, it's a little too early.
David Geisler:They take her away and he goes, wait. What? And he doesn't even know it until Doof shows up with an actual robot Moblin. He's like, here. I I it's the best it is so far.
David Geisler:Yep. Link puts it together, realizes he's gotta go save Zelda. So goes to Ganon's lair where Ganon has decided to have a necklace of truth put on Zelda. Mhmm. Was it necklace of truth?
Jim Burzelic:Truth. I don't remember what you told me. Control
David Geisler:or something, basically. Yeah. And and it basically makes her, like, do every anything he says. Mhmm. And he's basically says, okay.
David Geisler:You're gonna marry me now. And then Link shows up and I got a little gray on the fight there. There was a, you know, Link was going against was that the one with the Gleeak? No. Gleeak was in the springs.
David Geisler:Right. Gleeak was in the water one.
T.C. De Witt:Yeah. But fight ensues. He beats Ganon. Yep. Puts him in the gym.
David Geisler:Oh, Link, Link I was got got really excited when he shield bomb shield hopped to get to the dungeon
T.C. De Witt:and then just soared through the air.
David Geisler:Yep. Which the my favorite part about that is is that 30 years later, that is a pro strat in Breath of the Wild to do it. You can actually send yourself across the entire map. If you throw a bomb down, do your shield surfing, laying down it just right, you just get launched across the map. That's amazing.
David Geisler:It's just complete coincidence.
T.C. De Witt:No. I think we're not the only fans of of this cartoon.
David Geisler:The Breath of the Wild developers are like, you know what we gotta do?
T.C. De Witt:So they got bags in my eyes. Like, yeah. I'm a fan now.
David Geisler:Fan. Any, so any major takeaways from that episode or how well, how did it actually end then? He's just like, oh, did he ask for a kiss at the end?
T.C. De Witt:Yeah. No.
David Geisler:No. He's not asking anymore. Now he's just saying kiss me. Yeah.
Jim Burzelic:Well, I to to Link's credit, he did remove the the necklace of control Before. Before requesting a kiss.
David Geisler:Yes. Yes. Yes. That's true. It's true, noble guy.
David Geisler:Noble.
T.C. De Witt:Yes. Well, Doof shows up and interrupts them just for the kiss is gonna happen.
David Geisler:That's what it was. Like, I've oh, I made another robot. And then and then Link says something like, every time. More I don't think they've actually kissed. What to see?
David Geisler:There's 2 more episodes left this show. We'll have
Jim Burzelic:to see if they actually
David Geisler:kissed the audience.
T.C. De Witt:You can't
Jim Burzelic:kiss in
T.C. De Witt:a cartoon. Maybe they never do.
David Geisler:Yeah. The non repeatable behavior.
T.C. De Witt:Yeah. Like as far as takeaways from that episode, it was the the the thing that took me by surprise was we're just introducing a new character here. Like, they've existed this whole time. But as we discussed, there's there's sort of a rhyme and reason behind that of, like, a kid doesn't care.
David Geisler:A kid doesn't care. Mhmm. The we did learn that this it would appear based on the credits that all of these episodes were written by the same duo. I believe it was a husband and wife, but I was a man and woman according to the credits.
T.C. De Witt:Nintendo, if you've learned anything from your eighties nineties adaptations, stop letting husband and wives run your productions.
David Geisler:You're making a reference to the Mario Brothers.
T.C. De Witt:It's the Mario Brothers movies and
David Geisler:also husband and wife. Indeed. I know it is weird because we're also we're kinda doing both those episodes and sometimes some of these facts are kinda mixing with the other our conversation
T.C. De Witt:we put together. No.
David Geisler:It's it's true. Even to the to even as I said it just now, I was like, is is that right? Did I get that right? Because we have all the other conversations we've had in the last 48 hours as we've been making all these podcasts. But anyway, yeah.
David Geisler:Cool. Well, let's move on to fairies in the spring Mhmm. And then maybe we can do a kind of a final thoughts about the whole thing. So fairies in the spring, the king returns. Mhmm.
David Geisler:Was it your first time experiencing the king at least as an adult? Yep. Any thoughts? I hate to put you on the spot like that. We, we were surprised by the king's behavior in previous episodes.
David Geisler:Okay.
T.C. De Witt:Alright. Yeah. Because he's like,
David Geisler:go kiss my daughter. It doesn't sound like that. Go kiss my daughter. Yeah. He's kinda like one of these he's kind of like an up up like he's he's that eighties trope of like, I'm the one in charge after all.
David Geisler:Well, you know, the medieval times were a different time in which fathers sold off their daughters,
Jim Burzelic:Only
T.C. De Witt:in certain
David Geisler:Only in certain situations. Yeah. Yeah. And how's it gonna work? Goat trees?
David Geisler:It just doesn't
Jim Burzelic:Yeah. You can't name it after the thing every time. Yeah.
T.C. De Witt:Okay. My bad. My bad. Let's talk about the water park the king wanted.
David Geisler:Watries? Doesn't
T.C. De Witt:work. No.
David Geisler:But anyways, he is excited to build a water park Yeah.
Jim Burzelic:Which, we we got to meet, Hyrulean guards.
David Geisler:So what was really funny is remember at the top of the episode or the end of the first, someone one of us was saying something about like, where's the rest of the people that live in Hyrule? You never see the people in the kingdom. And then sure enough. And sure enough, that episode had a whole crew of people building a water park. And a
T.C. De Witt:whole bunch of people at the water park.
David Geisler:Also, not fun fact. I didn't share this when we were watching, but the way the water park was drawn and depicted looked like fun to me.
T.C. De Witt:I was kinda like,
David Geisler:I'd go there.
Jim Burzelic:It kinda did. There's a series
David Geisler:of pools with different slides going to the different pools. Like, I was like, yeah. That's like a blast.
T.C. De Witt:I can't tell you how many times I've had the hypothetical of if you had an endless source of money, what would you do that Jim has said without hesitation, build a water park?
David Geisler:Yeah. Seriously. This is in the thing.
Jim Burzelic:Every every time.
David Geisler:Yeah. Build a water park. Build a water park. We had a way back in, like, season 2 or 3 of this show, and I was on the podcast. Dan from fan fiction was with me, and we did a top ten list of, like, real world fan projects that would have Zelda themes.
David Geisler:And, of course, a water park was one of them. A real world
Jim Burzelic:water park. Inspired by this episode. Wow. This episode.
David Geisler:I didn't even know.
T.C. De Witt:I didn't even
David Geisler:know the water parks were so so affluent in the Zelda.
Jim Burzelic:The but
T.C. De Witt:you're not Oh, well,
Jim Burzelic:the water park the the the joke I made
T.C. De Witt:The water park looked amazing.
Jim Burzelic:Yeah.
T.C. De Witt:And and, like, you're right. It does look it does look like a great place. Like like, wow. It's so extensive, so elaborate. Like, it was a great looking location.
David Geisler:Yeah. So well, I don't mind setting it up. We're we're watching the show and, the water park's flooding and going up and down and all the rest. And we were talking about the intricacies of the water park. And, Jim, you made a an excellent observation.
David Geisler:Excellent observation.
Jim Burzelic:I I said, well, clearly, this this is the basis for all of the water levels in in the Zelda games. Yeah. You're like,
David Geisler:we didn't realize it, but the water doesn't Yeah. Just what what these water parks
Jim Burzelic:Completely recon abandoned water parks.
T.C. De Witt:Completely recontextualized. Completely recontextualizes all the done water dungeons from this point on. You're gonna look at those water dungeons and go, yeah, that was probably a theme.
David Geisler:Water dungeon in Twilight Princess? Who lives here? Water dungeon in Ocarina of Time?
Jim Burzelic:Who lives here?
David Geisler:No one lived there. It was a it was a water park. They were playing there.
T.C. De Witt:You did, John.
Jim Burzelic:The king specifically. The king was specifically king.
David Geisler:The eye get the water park. So the water park's getting built and then, actually it got a little a little dark, thematically at least. Some monsters spawn out of the water. I forgot how they came to be. So, I thought
Jim Burzelic:it was very interesting that they incorporated the source of the water. They're like, we found a spring. We found a a natural spring, and we're building this water park up around it. And the spirits weren't in there. I think it was literally Ganon showed up and it was all like, I'm magicking the water into monsters.
David Geisler:Yes. Oh. That's right. The lit there was like elemental Yeah. Water baddies.
David Geisler:I forgot about that because those aren't really in the games. Yeah. I know. Excellent. Full set.
David Geisler:However however, there were a couple monsters in the games that showed up. We that's where we did get our Gleeoc with the 3 heads. Oh, yeah.
T.C. De Witt:And I
David Geisler:was actually thinking about hindsight. When we were watching, I think I was like, oh, that's Gleeoc from level 3 or level 4 or whatever of the first Zelda game. But I actually if we wanna get real, push the glasses up the notch.
Jim Burzelic:I do. I do wanna get
David Geisler:Gleeok repeat is an is a bad guy again in a later level. Maybe, let's just say, 6 or 7 in the first game, and its increased ability is that its heads fly around. Oh. And in Gleeoc already showed up in this show in, like, episode 3 or 4. It was the one with the dark haired gal from another land.
T.C. De Witt:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
David Geisler:The kiss the kiss the frog 1 or whatever it was. And and its heads didn't fly around. So Gleeach has come back later in the series as a powered up version.
Jim Burzelic:So what you're saying is this is not an episodic show. This is a serialized show.
David Geisler:I think that this would imply it.
T.C. De Witt:Woah. Nintendo, if you've learned anything from this production, you should let a husband and wife.
David Geisler:We're the Mario brothers ever here to say. Okay. Let's see. Okay. I'm trying to bring it all back.
David Geisler:We got Gleeoc. We got water. Those things. But one thing happens in the episode that does start to get dark. Oh, great music in this episode too.
David Geisler:This is where they were actively playing the done orchestrated versions of the dungeon music from the very first game. The king gets grabbed by the water monsters, gets pulled down into the water. Link very seriously jumps into the water, dives in, tries to find him, comes back up. Zelda says, where's my dad or where's my father? The one time she said father, not daddy.
David Geisler:Not daddy. I think what it is is when she's talking to the king, she says daddy. And when she's talking about the king It's a
Jim Burzelic:pet name. It's a pet name. So you wouldn't say that to someone else.
David Geisler:Yeah. And so she says, where's my father? And Right.
Jim Burzelic:To the king of kings.
T.C. De Witt:Where's my daddy? I just thought of Yeah. I know you don't
Jim Burzelic:even go, where's my Smoochums? Smoochums, where are you?
David Geisler:Yeah. Yeah. Some would, but they would they would have issues. Yeah. And,
Jim Burzelic:have you seen my Smoochums? Yeah. Right.
David Geisler:So then Link dives down into the water, can't find the king and comes up and kind of for the cartoon, kinda seriously is like, he's not down there. I don't know. And you're like, oh, I mean, we know the king didn't die, but it was like, what?
T.C. De Witt:Drowned man.
David Geisler:Did the king die? And they don't know what to do. And then they that's Dan and I actually.
T.C. De Witt:Sorry. It should not be You're being
David Geisler:so you're just loving the stuff behind you.
T.C. De Witt:I'm I'm distracted. This is bad audio. You should be doing this.
David Geisler:It's great. It's just it's fine.
Jim Burzelic:I don't remember how they how they got to Ganon's, inner sanctum.
David Geisler:Oh, there was the tree the tree hole. The tree it was like just a staircase in a tree.
T.C. De Witt:Yeah.
David Geisler:Yeah. Remember that? They just walked right down into it. Yeah.
Jim Burzelic:So they are. He's not in the pool. Let's just go in the tree.
David Geisler:Yeah. They walked down the tree steps. Yeah. They kinda got to Ganon's, you know, area or whatever. Mhmm.
David Geisler:And and, Ganon does not have a castle, but Ganon sometimes takes the main castle. So Ganon's down his lair and now I'm getting gray.
Jim Burzelic:That's right. I remember because, like, we were saying so many comments during it and stuff. I remembered thinking, oh, that's convenient that Ganon's lair is beneath this water park.
David Geisler:Oh, wait. No. They don't go to Ganon's land. I'm I'm I'm imagining that from the other episodes. Yeah.
David Geisler:Yeah. Absolutely. That works.
Jim Burzelic:Yeah. I think
David Geisler:we're, like, building our own Berenstain Bears situation.
T.C. De Witt:I don't think Ganon's in this episode, is he?
Jim Burzelic:No. He is because he summons the He
David Geisler:summons the water monsters at the beginning. Yeah. But what happens is they go down the stairs because maybe even that's when Navi shows up, not Navi. That's when Sprite shows up Oh, yes. From her vacation and says, I think I know what's going on.
David Geisler:That's right. Follow me, and they walk me down the stairs and go to an alternate dimension where the all the sprites and the fairies live.
Jim Burzelic:Right. I was getting the 2 reversed. I was like, they're all gonna end up in the bulb.
David Geisler:I know. Right?
Jim Burzelic:They didn't last thing, but it was the first one.
David Geisler:And you can we used to do 3 of these episodes per episode. Oh, boy. And you can see why we brought it down to 2 because they were sometimes in episode 2 or 3 of of, excuse me, princess, TCE and I would be like, wait. Was that the unicorn episode or was that the like, we just watched these.
T.C. De Witt:You should have taken better notes.
David Geisler:Oh, I took some notes, but I don't even have but but as a professional as a as a as a working professional, I did not bring the notes with me to the recording.
Jim Burzelic:I never do.
David Geisler:Yeah. Anyways, so the, so they go down and they learn that the the fairies, the the water source of this spring is actually somehow they didn't really graphically show it, but somehow it's being pulled from the fairy kingdom and the fairies wait. Did the fairies send the monsters and it wasn't Ganon?
Jim Burzelic:No. No. I I thought it was just naturally water and I could have swore Ganon made them monsters
David Geisler:Ganon might have.
Jim Burzelic:To attack.
David Geisler:But then I remember the king saying something like, look, the king fairy sent, you know, sent the monsters because He didn't
Jim Burzelic:know they
David Geisler:were they didn't know we were taking the waters.
Jim Burzelic:He didn't know they were monsters. He didn't think they were monsters. He thought it was just wonderful water park fun.
David Geisler:Not a well, after the king cleared it up. Maybe.
Jim Burzelic:I guess I guess I'm gonna have to watch this thing. There's some
David Geisler:also this is a testament. Like, the 3 of us grown adults sat and watched with our eyes. Like, we looked we weren't doing anything else. We watched these episodes and this is how forgettable they are. What are you what are you pulling up?
T.C. De Witt:I'm gonna look it up, Zio.
David Geisler:I think what happened was I think I think maybe Ganon did Gleeach or something like that, but I'm remembering now the fairy king, I think, sent the water monsters, which is why they're not canonical, which is why they're not one of the bad guys one of Ganon's bad guys, thinking who's stealing our water. Once he learned that it was the king who was stealing the water and the king said, we'll only take as much as we need and we'll recycle the water with magic, then the fairy king was like, I'm cool with it. Just one ask, can I attend this water park?
Jim Burzelic:That yeah. That sounds back to me now. That sounds right.
David Geisler:And then and then, of course, we get a fun little montage. Everybody goes back to the water park and everybody's sliding down the slides.
T.C. De Witt:Yay. And And Zelda almost kisses Link and her she almost kisses him. He doesn't even I think he might have, like, kiss and he she's like, okay. And Sprite comes between them. That's right.
T.C. De Witt:That's right.
David Geisler:So we got 2 episodes left to this show. Maybe there is there is there character growth? Is there not? What's our what's our,
T.C. De Witt:I'm gonna say probably not.
Jim Burzelic:I mean From the sound of it, basically, it is teaching a a toxic trait, and that is persistence. Persistence will wear them down, and they'll like you after you ask enough and do enough favors and be nice and and all that. Because I learned it from somewhere.
T.C. De Witt:I learned it from watching Zelda.
David Geisler:And, you know, and also at a couple episodes ago, TC and I started giving the writers the benefit of the doubt, and we realized, you know, this is also just kind of unfortunately, was the language of a lot of TV shows back in the eighties. That's just what kind of our culture was. A lot of that stuff was perceived not only to be okay, but perceived to be kind of entertaining and funny. Like, oh, look at the rapscallion doing the doing the thing that's not acceptable. You know?
T.C. De Witt:Yeah. Alright. I was right. Ganon isn't even in that episode. Really?
T.C. De Witt:It was the fairies who created the water the water monsters to protect their vanishing water. So when
David Geisler:you're when when we're back when we go back to the playground and you play Doof and I play water monster and you play fairy king, we can get this all wrong.
Jim Burzelic:Yeah. We are.
David Geisler:Yeah. Yeah. But but it's okay. The stories will live on in the minds of children.
T.C. De Witt:Yep. Sprite Sprite Sprite's sister explained that someone was draining their spring which was the reason they were creating the water creatures. King Harkenia.
David Geisler:Oh, I just realized why Sprite had to be on a vacation because she would have figured out what was going on Immediately.
T.C. De Witt:Yeah. She knew how we saw this. Well, let's put her on the vacation she keeps talking about.
David Geisler:Alright. I'm back from that vacation I was on.
T.C. De Witt:I don't know if it was entirely important for me to figure that out, but It was. It was.
David Geisler:Jim and I were like eye locked trying to, like, we were like desperately cleaning each other, like, are we rewriting history that
Jim Burzelic:we're in reality right now?
David Geisler:Oh my gosh. Okay. So, anyway, any other thoughts about your experience, TC, doing this for 40 years?
T.C. De Witt:I I have definitely softened on this show. Like, it it I understand what it is now. Like, I've it's come to the point where I accept it for its badness. And I do think the revelation of Doof and right here in the moment thinking about, no, a kid would see that and wanna be Doof on the playground. And would build the whole history of this character out of the top, off the top of their head, with their imagination.
T.C. De Witt:And so I don't think I think this show came from at least an attempt. Like, this wasn't something that they're dumping out with any sort of malice. They're like, you know, like, kids love this stuff. Let's just make this stuff. Let's just make it.
T.C. De Witt:Let's just make it. We Yep. We don't know the lore enough or whatnot,
David Geisler:but And maybe there wasn't enough lore to pull from. To pull from. Yeah.
T.C. De Witt:Yeah. There's 2 games at this point. Yeah. And so they were making up as they were going
David Geisler:along. And the first game is a paragraph Yeah.
Jim Burzelic:When it comes
David Geisler:to lore. Mhmm. And the second game is almost nothing. You when you die in the second game, there's that famous red screen of the silhouette of the pig of Ganon where and it says game over.
Jim Burzelic:Mhmm. I mean,
David Geisler:you don't even know what that means unless you read the instruction manual, which lets you know that because you've died, eventually, the monsters take over and Ganon returns. Oh, that's what it doesn't say game over. It says Ganon returns. Yeah. And and, like, all that lore is in the instruction manual.
David Geisler:You don't know any of it. There's really nothing to read, and so that's what they were working with.
T.C. De Witt:I I still don't think this show is good. I wouldn't I wouldn't
Jim Burzelic:Well, because because even on making a a children's show, there's even further constraints, not just story ones. Like, because I'd be like, well, no. You embrace all the monsters. You actually send them on adventures and stuff. Mhmm.
Jim Burzelic:And that that's, that's a budget for a show that's for us, an older audience than they're initially aiming for.
T.C. De Witt:We need to reuse as many assets as often as possible.
Jim Burzelic:Yeah. Yeah. Right? So they're so they're not gonna incorporate all the monsters that little Jim is gonna wanna see. They're they're gonna try to tell these adventures with these 4 characters.
David Geisler:It was the the one thing that's impossible to ignore is the weird accuracy of the names of all the baddies. For the most part, the depiction of the baddies, the ones that are canonical Sure. Sure. The sound effects are are like straight out of the game. Yep.
David Geisler:It's it's it's nuts. It was so much it was to the point where actually I remember this when, they were in the sewers, maybe going to the fairy land or something. Mhmm. The big old crab came out and I was like, it's Goma.
Jim Burzelic:Like 8 year old dude came out. Yeah.
David Geisler:Right. Like, you can call these characters out there that accurate. And and for the most part, the way the references are spot on. So then I feel like maybe what happened was yeah. Yeah.
David Geisler:Maybe it's a little bit of that list syndrome again. You get the list, you get the references right. And for all intents and purposes to keep this part of the conversation moving, Nintendo doesn't care. Nintendo's contracted the 12 episodes or the 13 episodes. Make it make the show because that's just how all shows were because shows were just the cartoons were just commercials.
David Geisler:Mhmm. You know, we were talking about GI Joe and all the rest. You know what I mean?
Jim Burzelic:Their care may have extended to make sure you reference these things. Yeah. Like, and and they listed the monsters, gave them pictures of the monsters, or or even like
David Geisler:The sprites.
Jim Burzelic:Even saying video footage might have been a a bit much for the late eighties.
David Geisler:It took a Polaroid. Or at least artist renditions or something. Right. Like,
Jim Burzelic:I'm I'm thinking like, Nintendo. Yeah. They they had concept art. So they they they may have had stuff like that to be, like, have this monster be in there.
David Geisler:Here's a fun example. In, the first time Gleeoc showed up, all 3 heads had dialogue. They talked. Oh. Gleevec did not talk in this episode.
David Geisler:And also was drawn a little different too, but that's probably just different, you know, contracts and stuff like that. I think you're right. I think Nintendo at most was like include these things. These are the items we want to explore. Make sure you know, and it's kind of funny.
David Geisler:Wouldn't it be funny if, like, if Nintendo did have quality control a little bit on this show and what the what the game designer was like was like, well, we have to make sure that the noise the sound effect is correct. And like, they're not really doing character analysis, branding assessment.
T.C. De Witt:You know what I mean?
David Geisler:And then, like, where we were at back then, actually, I'm realizing. Yeah.
T.C. De Witt:So I'm I'm not loathing watching this. It there is fun to be had and just even, you know, we'll talk about like this. So, I don't begrudge anyone who's not seen this. I'm like, oh, you missed out. But occasionally, you're gonna find, especially newer Zelda fans who might not even know this exists.
T.C. De Witt:Yeah. You you might run across someone who's never held a Nintendo 64 controller. That happens. That's that's not out of the realm of possibility that there there is a segment of ness of people of a certain era that, oh, the excuse me princess of absolutely. But there's going to be a couple decades of people who had who only have discovered this cartoon courtesy of this.
T.C. De Witt:Mhmm. Yeah. And I think that's kinda there's there's some there's some fun in that.
David Geisler:I agree. I agree. I think just like when we when we examine all the different Zelda games. I mean, we've we've discussed we've had entire episodes where we discussed Zelda's agency just through the Zelda games over the past 40 years. Mhmm.
David Geisler:And what you're really examining is culture, not really necessarily the games. And in some ways, I think what we're looking at here is what what was entertainment? What was Saturday morning morning cartoons back then even though it wasn't Saturday mornings? What was that experience like?
T.C. De Witt:Pre Internet too. Pre Internet. Pre, Millennial pre millennial cynicism as well.
David Geisler:The budgets were way lower. Mhmm.
T.C. De Witt:Because, like, don't honestly, there's some of you out there who listen to who, like, remember He Man and Thundercats finally.
David Geisler:But if you watch it?
T.C. De Witt:Yeah. I'm not saying it's, like, this show. This show is coming from, like, a very shoestring budget. But those shows are silly and repetitive, and they're fun to your 8 year old memory of it. But if you tried to show an 8 year old now, He Man, they're gonna go, what?
T.C. De Witt:No. If you try to show, an adult who's never watched He Man, He Man, now they're gonna go, no. It's it's a moment in time that captured you in a moment in time, and so you hold it beloved. That's just the nature of literally what nostalgia is. You you you
Jim Burzelic:hold Yeah. He Man and Thundercats. They're they they they don't know Silverhawks though. That's that's perfection. Yeah.
T.C. De Witt:Jim's right at
David Geisler:the end. I remember thinking Thundercats was just the coolest dang thing on the face of the planet. And and I and I barely watched the show. I think I would like to see I'd see the commercial. I'd catch 1 or 2 episodes because you're kidding.
David Geisler:You don't actually know how scheduling works.
Jim Burzelic:Yeah.
David Geisler:And but and just that was enough to imprint on me thinking, like, oh, that's a super cool thing.
T.C. De Witt:It's a very elevated animation, especially compared to what
Jim Burzelic:we're seeing
T.C. De Witt:in Zelda. Like, it's it's Japanese animation Oh, you're right. That was financed by American companies. So the eighties hand hand drawn animation of, like, of a certain segment is like, I mean, it just looks good. Snarf, snarf, like, ah.
T.C. De Witt:You know, that's annoying and all that. But like, you can watch, like, the GIFs of even that era of animation and go, damn, that's cool. Guitar doing that flipping. Just watch the opening credits of any animated show from that era. That's gonna be the best version of the cartoon.
Jim Burzelic:That's true.
David Geisler:I I just had a thought. I was realizing that the worst version of cartoons that are commercials from the eighties is that formula. Bad guy, this thing would do the thing, you know, get around it's the 3 beats, the same 3 beats every time. Maybe it's a different sometimes it's even the exact same bad guy. It doesn't really matter.
David Geisler:Mhmm. Very rarely would you get an episode that was a little bit different. When it comes to this show being just 13 commercials, and as much as we can kind of assess and be like, 5 of these episodes include characters and storylines that aren't even canon. I don't know. They were writing stories.
David Geisler:Like, they were
T.C. De Witt:trying to come up with trying
David Geisler:to come up with at least a concept that was a little, you know, know, each episode a little different. And maybe I'm giving this show too much credit. Maybe I'm getting soft, but I don't know.
Jim Burzelic:Well, the thing I found weird about it is, most of those shows were always honestly about selling merchandise.
David Geisler:Right.
Jim Burzelic:There wasn't merchandise for the show.
David Geisler:I imagine it's just trying to sell the video game. Yeah.
Jim Burzelic:Right? Which also anyone who's gonna be watching the show, honestly, already has the game or is familiar with it, which because the thing so thinking about it, the thing that was so exciting to me as a kid seeing this was knowing that they took this video game that I thought was cool, and they were showing me the stories. I wasn't having to play through them or read them or or, like, I was getting all the stories in between or before or after. Like, this was amazing that that that there was there's whole other world from just the game that I play.
David Geisler:I see. That that thought's all. I love it. I think that's wonderful. Yeah.
David Geisler:I think you're right. And I think that is I remember kinda thinking it was it was, you know, an an extension as well. Mhmm.
T.C. De Witt:I'm really curious to see what the last two episodes offers that won't give us more insight. Oh, it's a year from now that we'll come back to this. So I'm the the adventure's nearing its conclusion and I'm wondering, like, what more will I have to say watching 2 more episodes?
David Geisler:Yeah. I know. We might be running out of things to say, I think, a little bit, but I think we'll have a final thesis on it all next year. It'll probably be the 3 of us again next year because I if if if schedules go correctly, it's me visiting the 2 of you at the studio demands its studio.
T.C. De Witt:That's right.
David Geisler:Yeah. And, also I was thinking
Jim Burzelic:about this.
David Geisler:It's true. It's true. It's true. We I don't know how the timing is gonna work. I don't know when release dates are gonna happen, but I realized that once we're done with this, the the next episode has to be the 3 of us, discussing the upcoming Zelda film doing, like, a review
T.C. De Witt:of the Zelda movie. Absolutely.
David Geisler:Just seeing what it means, well, how it all came together and all the rest. Mhmm. Not a suit you demands it, not to rewrite it, not to whatever. Just a just a we've never been able to do a review episode on EZP as far as, like, a piece of content like that. This is the closest we get is with these excuse me things.
David Geisler:I mean, we review the games but we're not we really just kinda talk about it when we Yeah. Yeah.
T.C. De Witt:We quote them.
David Geisler:We don't even call them review episodes. You know what I mean? Mhmm. So anyways, I think that's kinda where this this this goes from there and I can't I can't wait.
T.C. De Witt:I'm It's soccer. I'm It's weird, you know. It's episode 4 of this, episode 5, and they just introduced a new character. Like, where does gym guy come? And they're talking like he's been here the
David Geisler:whole time. Thanks for being back on your vacation on your vacation. I'm just so glad.
Jim Burzelic:I had a wonderful time.
David Geisler:Well, that's great. Well, anyways, I think we're gonna get going here. You can find the let's start with Studio Demands It actually, TC. If people wanna find Studio Demands It Yes.
T.C. De Witt:Thank you for asking.
David Geisler:Certainly click in the show notes of this episode. Yeah. But otherwise, if they're just out there on the Internet, what can they do? Thank you for asking. Jim.
David Geisler:I wondered why you said it so quickly, and then I kinda messed up your rhythm. I'm so sorry.
Jim Burzelic:You can find us at studio demands it.com where all of our podcasts are posted as, podcast episodes are posted, along with finding it where you, find any of your favorite podcasts.
David Geisler:Mhmm. Yeah. This season, you guys are really, like, everywhere now. It's it's on all the all the small distributors and everything, which is pretty cool.
T.C. De Witt:You can find us on Instagram at studio demands it. So you can also get us on YouTube and TikTok where we post video content that we don't typically have on the show. And we also have a Patreon for some, like, your your fans are very familiar with what the Patreon offers as far as, like, bonus content is concerned. Yeah.
David Geisler:But you can do that. You do full commentaries on films and stuff. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's pretty impressive.
T.C. De Witt:Yeah. Our bonus stuff is, yeah, full movie commentaries you'd like to visit. The Patreon David did Super Mario Bros with us as a as a commentary track. And we also have extended episodes, and, what else
Jim Burzelic:And we can, you can also, join in the conversation, on Discord. We have a Discord server you can get to from our website, studiodemansit.com. There's a link for Discord at the top, to join the server and also on Reddit at, our subreddit at, r slash studio demands it. Mhmm. And, come come hang out with us there.
David Geisler:Fantastic. I'm gonna keep it real simple for AZP. I'm raptor paint on all the socials. Oh, do you wanna do personals or anything like that? You're gonna
Jim Burzelic:be good.
David Geisler:Yeah. Cool. Love it.
T.C. De Witt:Well, that's a joke we haven't done in a long time.
Jim Burzelic:That is so cool.
T.C. De Witt:You can find me on Twitter and Instagram at TC's big head. And if you wanna reach Jim, you go to the me, and I will find him for you. Yeah.
David Geisler:I I for for another Zelda podcast, there's another Zelda pod on x, and another Zelda podcast on everything else. And, really the easiest thing is just go to our website, another Zelda podcast.com, where you can get links to all of our episodes and our blog posts and, a little bit of merch. We gotta start merch for you guys. We just gotta do it.
T.C. De Witt:I think so too. We've discussed it before.
David Geisler:I think we take the 6 we take the AZP model and bring it over to studio. Okay. Alright. Cool. Anyways, that's that's good enough for now.
David Geisler:We'll see you all in the next episode. The next episode, if the schedule maintains, will be an episode where in which I and Lego influencer, Hokabricks, are going to be building the Lego Deku Tree. And then I guess kind of reviewing what the build experience was like. And I'm very, very excited about that. That gentleman's name is Eric and they'll be coming in from I think they actually live in Wisconsin right now.
David Geisler:Hot take, they I think they just bought a house in Kenosha. Woah. But that's a complete coincidence. Kenosha is the hometown where TCU and I grew up. And anyways, well, we're gonna get together and and sit right here at this table and and have, they're gonna build the Breath of the Wild version of the tree.
David Geisler:I'm gonna build the Ocarina of Time version of the tree, and we're gonna have them right here on the table in front of us and talk about the kits, and that'll be the next episode. It'll be tons of fun. And then, of course, the episode after that, Katie and I will be back. I think we're doing a Garrido episode or something like that. Anyways, the both of you, this has been an absolute blast.
David Geisler:These last couple of days we've been hanging out, making all the different shows. I'm so happy to have you on an an unofficial Nozella podcast episode, Jim. Thank you for your kind of refreshing thoughts on the show too. Sure.
Jim Burzelic:I well, I I feel they were a a bit apologistic, but
David Geisler:No. It's it's you're welcome. You know, part of the conversation. I really, really appreciate it. And, of course, TC as always, it's wonderful to have you here.
David Geisler:I love this. And, I guess there it is. Let's get out of here. We have a behind the curtain, we have a little cookout tonight. Yeah.
T.C. De Witt:That's right.
David Geisler:We're We're closing up shop here in about 5 minutes.
Jim Burzelic:I didn't get to say my favorite Zelda thing. What's
David Geisler:your favorite Zelda thing?
Jim Burzelic:In breath of the wild, the the chameleon lizard monster guys. That's my favorite thing. That's my favorite monster in Zelda.
David Geisler:The the Lizalfos? I'll believe you. Great. I'm so happy you shared that, Jim. Thank you.
Jim Burzelic:I feel I feel good about myself.
David Geisler:It's out there. It's on the Internet now. It's been established. Yeah. That's great.
David Geisler:The the chameleon thing. The ones that have they spit water or they
Jim Burzelic:No. No. They they, like, they're they're huge and they carry spears and stuff. They they they they're they're they're lizard monsters, but they they specifically look like chameleons. They have the the Yeah.
Jim Burzelic:Highs that Yeah.
David Geisler:In Breath of the Wild. Totally. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.
David Geisler:They're scary stuff. There's water versions and versions. Do you
T.C. De Witt:want me to fan my head for you while you're talking like that? Please patronize
Jim Burzelic:me a little more.
David Geisler:Well, that's cool. Thank you
Jim Burzelic:for sharing. This is the only time I'm gonna get to talk about Zelda. No.
David Geisler:But it's gonna be bad
Jim Burzelic:next year. Next year, we're gonna
David Geisler:be but anyway, alright. Cool. Alright. Any we're gonna get out of here. Everyone have a great week.
David Geisler:We're gonna get to this cookout. Actually, it's it's kinda fun behind the curtain. It it sounds like Katie, my co host, is gonna be able to show up and total random coincidence, mister Dan McCoy. Yeah. That's them right there.
David Geisler:Yeah. They're all full. They're great. Dan McCoy. Is in town with his wife for a totally different reason.
David Geisler:Randomly texted me this morning. Dan from fan fiction is gonna show up and all of us are gonna hang out. You've obviously met Dan before. Mhmm. Jim, you'll meet him for the first time.
David Geisler:I will. And my girlfriend Michelle's showing up. We're gonna have a nice little cookout, and I can't wait to end this kind of, hoorah of producing 4 or 5 episodes over the last 2 days.
T.C. De Witt:65 vacation time. Yeah. It's gonna be a
David Geisler:little 65 party. Yeah. We just need to get, we just need to get Jacob and Rebecca over here from another Pokemon podcast. Yeah. Michigan.
David Geisler:No. They're actually down south. It doesn't matter. We'll see you all in the next episode. Bye, everyone.
David Geisler:Bye.