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Welcome to The B2B CMO Podcast, a show for marketing executives who are redefining what it means to be a strategic leader. Join Jon Miller and Sydney Sloan every week as they talk with the very best Chief Marketing Officers who are navigating the modern marketing playbook and positioning themselves as strategic leaders.
Each episode, we unpack what it really takes to lead through complexity, earn trust at the strategy table, and shape the future of growth.
We’re building the community, research, and frameworks CMOs need to reclaim their strategic role and drive sustainable growth.
For more marketing leadership resources, visit [b2bcmoproject.com](http://b2bcmoproject.com/).
B2B CMO - 010 - JJ Jennifer Johnson
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[00:00:00]
Sydney Sloan: [00:00:05] [00:00:10] [00:00:15] [00:00:20] Welcome to the B2B [00:00:25] CMO podcast. Good morning. I'm Sydney Sloan. I'm joined by my cohost Jon Miller. [00:00:30] Hi Jon,
Jon Miller: Hello.
Sydney Sloan: Our guest today has spent her career creating [00:00:35] new market categories. Yeah, she's like a phenomenal category creator and helping companies, um, [00:00:40] dominate them. So Jennifer Jonson, former, like known affectionately as jj, [00:00:45] uh, has been a CMO for more than a decade. Building high performing teams [00:00:50] from some of the most trusted names in cybers, like super cyber specialist. So she [00:00:55] took Amplitude and Tenable public as their CMO, led Covarity in acquisition, [00:01:00] and today she is the Chief Marketing Officer at one of the world's largest [00:01:05] cybersecurity companies, CrowdStrike, it might be the largest. It's an agentic security platform [00:01:10] built to secure the AI revolution. JJ thinks a lot about bold storytelling [00:01:15] category leadership, and lately how AI is shaping marketing's new operating [00:01:20] model. So we're gonna talk about all those things. We welcome JJ to our podcast and congratulations [00:01:25] on being a top 100 B2B CMO.
Jennifer Johnson: Well, thank you very much Jon and Sydney. [00:01:30] Always a pleasure. Happy to be here. Excited to be here.
Sydney Sloan: Good.
Jon Miller: to have you [00:01:35] here.
Sydney Sloan: Friday morning and, um, and end of a, a very long week. So [00:01:40] we always like to kick off with some fun questions to get to know you a little bit better. Um, and [00:01:45] so we'll start with you've been a multi-time CMO, extremely [00:01:50] successful. We all look up to you. What is your CMO origin story? Like, how did you [00:01:55] get into marketing and what
Sydney Sloan: would you name your superpower to be?
Jennifer Johnson: Oh, [00:02:00] um, I, I, you know, I always tell people that, you know, I, I wanna be able to say [00:02:05] that I had this grand vision, you know, from the beginning that I was gonna be a CMO, but it just kind of happened, [00:02:10] right? And so, uh, I started my career in product marketing, and I always say, great CMOs [00:02:15] come from everywhere.
Jennifer Johnson: But I'll make the case for why great CMOs come from product marketing [00:02:20] is, uh, you know, especially in tech, right? You have to be able to kind of sit between product and [00:02:25] engineering, especially, you know, being able to be technical, to be able to tease out the, the [00:02:30] technical, you know, the technical messaging and, and synthesize it into [00:02:35] a, a bold narrative and a story.
Jennifer Johnson: And I think that, you know, really is being, you know, kind of [00:02:40] that, that hub that sits between product and eng and the Go-To-Market and the customer. [00:02:45] Number one, you kind of have that skillset of being able to, to take technology and turn it into a [00:02:50] narrative, number one. Number two, I think you get a, a pretty 360 degree view of the [00:02:55] business and the cus and the lens of the customer.
Jennifer Johnson: And, and I, you know, that, that, [00:03:00] that background I think, you know, was, was suited me well to, to kind of move into the, the [00:03:05] CMO seat. Um, so I always advocate great CMOs come from everywhere, but I'm always gonna give [00:03:10] a shout out to those product marketers. Uh, turned CMO. Um, and you know, I, I just [00:03:15] wound up actually, my, my predecessor at Verti is a gentleman named Dave Peterson.
Jennifer Johnson: So [00:03:20] when he left to go start play bigger, for those of you marketers you might know and have read the play bigger book on [00:03:25] category design, which I wound up working with them at some point in my career. Um, but [00:03:30] when he left to start play bigger. I, uh, the, the, the CEO came into my [00:03:35] office one day and said, go, move, go move to the other office.
Jennifer Johnson: And I all of a sudden found myself in the [00:03:40] seat. So, um, you know, I think doing, look, I don't think there's any. [00:03:45] I don't think there's any magic to it, right? Like, do a good job, work hard, [00:03:50] you know, be a great collaborator. Stay, you know, keep your, keep your, you know, your, [00:03:55] your nose to the grindstone, like ear to the customer.
Jennifer Johnson: Always customer first. And, you know, I think those are [00:04:00] just the basic things that I think we, we as marketers do inherently. Um, but I just kept doing a [00:04:05] great job and, and, and wound up in that seat. Um, and, uh, yeah, I've been to cmo as you mentioned a few [00:04:10] times now. Um. And when I went to, when I left, uh, it was when I [00:04:15] left Verti, I went to Andreessen Horowitz for a, a bit of time and I got that experience of being on the, on [00:04:20] the VC side for a year, which was, which was fantastic.
Jennifer Johnson: Getting to see, you know, and pattern [00:04:25] match across a whole host of portfolio companies. Met Tanium through that, went into to [00:04:30] to be Tanium, CMO and, you know, really put them on the, on the map. Esp they were [00:04:35] a, a systems management company that. Really entered the market in cybersecurity. That's actually not [00:04:40] how they built the company, but there was this great product market fit for cyber.
Jennifer Johnson: So they kind of came outta nowhere. And that was my [00:04:45] first big moment of, of, you know, kind of taking a company from almost overnight obscurity [00:04:50] to, at the time the hottest security company on the planet. 'cause CrowdStrike was still coming outta [00:04:55] stealth. And, uh,
Jennifer Johnson: and then, uh, and then had a great run after that, [00:05:00] as you said, you know, took a couple companies public.
Jennifer Johnson: Um, I just really love [00:05:05] cybersecurity. I, I, I love. The mission driven nature of [00:05:10] cybersecurity and, you know, it's always been so critical. And now in this, of course, this world [00:05:15] of AI and, and securing ai and what AI is gonna do from a, from a pace of attack [00:05:20] standpoint as well as kind of a new nature of, of cyber risk, there's never been a more important [00:05:25] moment to be in cyber.
Jennifer Johnson: So. I really love being in it, and I also take a lot of, you know, both [00:05:30] pride and, and feel responsive, responsible for, for not, you know, creating more noise in the market, [00:05:35] but helping to actually, um, provide some clarity in the market for these [00:05:40] defenders who are out there every day keeping all of us safe.
Jennifer Johnson: So, um, you know, I, I said I wanted to stay in [00:05:45] cyber and, and, you know, I wanna be the best CMOI can be in the, in the best biggest c [00:05:50] cybersecurity company that I can. Well, here we are, and I've, and I've, I've loved every minute [00:05:55] of the last, almost four years.
Jon Miller: great story. I think one thing that I find interesting about your [00:06:00] background is that it seems like you wanted to be a marketer almost from the very beginning. I mean, you studied [00:06:05] marketing in college. Uh, we've had some other CMOs on this podcast recently who came to it from a [00:06:10] completely. All sorts of different directions, you know, whether it's like PSYOPs [00:06:15] for the military or science backgrounds.
Jon Miller: So I think one of the lessons is you can [00:06:20] get to be A CMO from any kind of background. But I'm curious, like, you know, [00:06:25] little JJ growing up, you know, did you, you knew you wanted to
Jon Miller: be a marketer from the beginning? [00:06:30]
Jennifer Johnson: You know, I, I, I think I. I inherently knew what I knew about [00:06:35] marketing was it was, you know, from a, from a young age, like obviously I didn't know the, the kind of the [00:06:40] academic part of it, but I, I understood that it was about story telling [00:06:45] stories and storytelling, which I've always been, I've always loved storytelling, even as a little girl.
Jennifer Johnson: [00:06:50] Um, you know, like being close to the customer and [00:06:55] understanding the customer. Um, I was a psychology minor, so I was a, a marketing major in, in college and a [00:07:00] psychology minor. So, you know, getting in the, the minds and understanding the motivations, and I've [00:07:05] always. You know, been someone that, you know, I think has a high EQ and can read the [00:07:10] room, so to speak, and, and really understands kind of the, the, almost the unwritten, uh, you know, part [00:07:15] of, of doing our job, the art.
Jennifer Johnson: And I just have always loved, you know, I've loved creativity and [00:07:20] design even as a, you can probably see my office behind me. This is not a, this is not a fake background. [00:07:25] Everyone asks me if it's fake. I love design and I think that. You know, you put all those things [00:07:30] together and, you know, those are a lot of the, kind of the, the, the backbones of, of what we do in marketing is [00:07:35] telling our story through, you know, the unspoken, the spoken and the unspoken, right?
Jennifer Johnson: And [00:07:40] building, building a brand, and building affinity and building community. And, and so I think all of those [00:07:45] things were instilled for me, a, a and a as a young girl at a young age. Um, that [00:07:50] kind of just, I think, inherently charted my path maybe without me even knowing.
Jon Miller: And [00:07:55] storytelling ties so well to the product marketing background, you know, that, that you happen. The best product marketers [00:08:00] I've met are the best storytellers. So, Mo moving on. I mean, we started [00:08:05] the whole B2B CMO project in the first place, you know, because I just [00:08:10] think this role has gotten harder and harder, uh, in the last, you know, 10 years and obviously even [00:08:15] harder now with ai and, you know, you've, you've, you've done it, you know, kind of, you know, so many [00:08:20] times through the years.
Jon Miller: I'm curious. What feels harder for you [00:08:25] today than it has in the past?
Jennifer Johnson: I think, I think it's, it's [00:08:30] less about. The function of marketing in terms of, of, you know, kind of [00:08:35] the outward, I think it's for me more about how do we drive this transformation [00:08:40] in internally, uh, with ai. Right. And, you know, we [00:08:45] talk like, I think one of the. One of the main skills is as [00:08:50] being a CMO versus maybe a VP of marketing is really thinking [00:08:55] about transformation, right?
Jennifer Johnson: And that could be transformation around your transforming your market [00:09:00] category. That also could be transformation internally. And I think we're at this [00:09:05] moment of internal transformation, maybe since we haven't seen, since the days of when [00:09:10] Marketo Jon came to be, right? Is we're going through this. This, this [00:09:15] era of how do you bring AI in to transform how you actually work as [00:09:20] marketing and you know, being at a company that's not a AI [00:09:25] native, right?
Jennifer Johnson: I mean, there's many things we do as CrowdStrike that we, we always move fast. We've [00:09:30] always. You know, had a pulse on the customer. We've always been to kind of been able to kind of [00:09:35] be the, the leader in whatever we're doing, but we're still, you know, we're still a, you know, [00:09:40] you know, we've got a, a large at scale marketing organization and how do we [00:09:45] simultaneously, you know, let's like building the plane while you're flying it right.
Jennifer Johnson: On steroids. And I think [00:09:50] that's the biggest challenge that, that I've seen and I know every. I every CMO [00:09:55] regardless of the, the scale and stage of the company is struggling with this, but I think the at scale companies is how [00:10:00] do we actually build AI in and transform our teams? Who, what the [00:10:05] skill sets that are required, um, how we get work done, the workflows, how do we [00:10:10] identify while we're actually trying to run the business?
Jennifer Johnson: It's, it's, it's a, as I'm sure you're hearing from all the, [00:10:15] the CMOs you talked to, it's probably the number one issue that all of us are facing right now.
Sydney Sloan: [00:10:20] Can you share? Um, I met your AI transformation leader at our, [00:10:25] uh, AI club. A couple. Months ago, and I think it was one of the first times that I heard like [00:10:30] the background of the person that you chose to hire and the remit that you gave him. So would you
Sydney Sloan: share that [00:10:35] with the audience? 'cause I think it's a little bit unique.
Jennifer Johnson: So, um, uh, so we, [00:10:40] number one, I think every CMO needs to have someone in their leadership team that is [00:10:45] accountable for driving AI transformation. Um, and so I [00:10:50] looked for somebody who. Has who understands marketing? I think they need to [00:10:55] understand marketing. But I actually look for someone that came from a strategic consulting [00:11:00] background.
Jennifer Johnson: So I brought in someone from Boston Consulting Group from BCG, um, who's [00:11:05] worked in their Go-To-Market practice working with many companies of all different sizes and [00:11:10] scales around their AI transformation. So I wanted someone that could come in who understood enough [00:11:15] about the function, but actually understood the, the process and the change management [00:11:20] side of driving the transformation, not just the kind of the, the technology piece of it.
Jennifer Johnson: [00:11:25] So I think it's important who you bring in to and, and kind of bringing in that skill set that I, I, I would always, [00:11:30] if you can find a, if you can find someone who understands marketing, who also understands consulting, I think that's the winning [00:11:35] combination.
Sydney Sloan: And is it, it's a a 18 month
Sydney Sloan: remit,
Sydney Sloan: or did I hear that or did I read that wrong?
Jennifer Johnson: a, [00:11:40] it's no, I mean, the person, he's, he's here, he is actually an employee. Like we, I actually brought him over from BCG, [00:11:45] um, to, to join the team and we're building a team around him. So we have, we have [00:11:50] forward deployed marketing engineers that we're actually bringing into the team underneath him to actually go and like, be [00:11:55] able to rapidly prototype and, and build out these workflows.
Jennifer Johnson: And so what we're doing right now is we're mapping [00:12:00] out. All of our, uh, of our, our functions and our function [00:12:05] in intra function workflows, and then our cross marketing workflows, and we're actually putting in [00:12:10] roadmaps of how we're actually gonna get from A to B. So, I mean, just your typical transformation journey.
Jennifer Johnson: Now we can say [00:12:15] that's a three year roadmap, but in, in, in, in reality. I mean like there's, [00:12:20] there's one week sprints within that three week roadmap. So it's pretty amazing though what you can do when you get the right [00:12:25] team in place and you just get them. I think the biggest thing is it's easy to. When you look across [00:12:30] everything that could be identified in marketing, it's easy I think to get overwhelmed pretty quickly.
Jennifer Johnson: [00:12:35] Like pick, pick one thing and actually do it. End to end and do it well. Learn from that, build a [00:12:40] playbook and then you can replicate it out. I think people just need to think about it probably in [00:12:45] chunks, is the best way to, to get from here to there.
Sydney Sloan: Yeah.
Jon Miller: like where does he fit in your org [00:12:50] structure? How did you know, did you do any other org design to
Jon Miller: support bringing somebody like this in, uh.
Jennifer Johnson: So he's a [00:12:55] direct report to me, uh, part of the marketing leadership team. Um, he has a team underneath [00:13:00] him, uh, that he's got someone that's, that's kind of running the, the process and change [00:13:05] management and enablement piece. So they're doing a lot of the. You know, tool enablement, you know, [00:13:10] change management enablement within the team.
Jennifer Johnson: We're building these forward deployed engineers to actually be able to [00:13:15] work with the functional teams in marketing as well as our IT team and make sure that [00:13:20] we're. You know, deploying, you know, if we're doing a, you know, cloud code workflow to, you know, right now we're looking at our [00:13:25] end-to-end campaign workflow as an example, that we're building out the right process and we're actually, you [00:13:30] know, we're, we're automating it and identifying it in phases, and then working like very, very [00:13:35] closely with the functional leaders.
Jennifer Johnson: So. You know, for example, that this is a central team, right? And so we [00:13:40] still have, for example, obviously we have product marketers and product marketing team, each of the [00:13:45] functions, for example, product marketing now has an, an AI champion in their team. Brand has an AI champion in their [00:13:50] team. All the demand gen functions have AI champions.
Jennifer Johnson: And so we've kind of built this center of [00:13:55] excellence. They're the center of excellence. That's probably the best way to describe it. And then they're working with all of the, the [00:14:00] champions in each one of these functions.
Jon Miller: so the AI champions are in the functions. Got [00:14:05] it. Um, one more follow up to that and then we'll back to Sydney. The uh, uh, what about the relationship to [00:14:10] marketing operations, because I feel like a lot of people put AI into marketing operations [00:14:15] and it doesn't usually work. So I'm curious kind
Jon Miller: of how you thought about that.
Jennifer Johnson: I mean, [00:14:20] marketing ops is a, is a key stakeholder to this, but at least in, in our [00:14:25] organization, they're, they're extraordinarily talented at, at the, the tech stack [00:14:30] and, and, and building the tech stack to enable it. But they may not, and this is not [00:14:35] a, this is not a, a, a shortfall of our team. Our team is amazingly talented, but [00:14:40] sometimes they don't always think of like business objective down and the process [00:14:45] and the change management.
Jennifer Johnson: I think people can't underestimate. The, the change management and the [00:14:50] cultural shift that you have to make as an organization. And I think marketing ops [00:14:55] plays a key role in enabling that. But you, I, I, I believe at least you need a function that actually [00:15:00] can kind of drive that process and change and cultural change.
Jennifer Johnson: A
Sydney Sloan: They're [00:15:05] just looking at it from a different altitude, right? When you're, when you're hands in, in the, you know, in the [00:15:10] center of the process, it's hard to see a.
Sydney Sloan: Of which is why you have it reporting to you. Um, [00:15:15] 'cause you can see that and, and lead, lead there. Um, I wanna go back to [00:15:20] one, one of the things, by the way, that hits to our pillar number five on org design.
Sydney Sloan: 'cause it, and it's [00:15:25] an area that pillar five in our, in our research. 'cause it's an area that. [00:15:30] The CMOs that responded to our survey felt the least, uh, ready, ready to [00:15:35] tackle. So that's helpful for us to go deep on, on that area. Um, [00:15:40] 'cause we're all still learning how to transform and I think a lot of people have done like the okay, we're gonna [00:15:45] enable everybody how to use a tool, but the whole like, we're gonna redesign the way that we [00:15:50] actually work is a massive.
Sydney Sloan: Difference. Um, and I [00:15:55] think there's just everybody on the spectrum. Um, I'm in a role now too as an EIR, so I get to see [00:16:00] across like 25 port cos like what, what
Sydney Sloan: they're at. And
Sydney Sloan: the spectrum is so
Sydney Sloan: wide, [00:16:05] it's
Jennifer Johnson: Yeah.
Jennifer Johnson: And I think the other thing is just staying, you know, staying alert [00:16:10] and staying aware and observe what's happening in the org because like I'll learn something or I'll observe [00:16:15] something new every week. That kind of keeps evolving our thinking, right? And so we [00:16:20] have this central team. But that also doesn't mean there isn't great innovation and great work [00:16:25] happening in the functions themselves.
Jennifer Johnson: Right? And so, you know, for example, one of my [00:16:30] product marketing leaders just built this, this marketing intelligence dashboard, which is like a real time [00:16:35] listening agents that, and they're scraping all this data and then they're creating this real time dashboard [00:16:40] where they can basically tell you like, this topic is surging.
Jennifer Johnson: Like there's an agent then that will like [00:16:45] auto generate a first draft of content. Like you need to like bid higher on these keywords. I mean, [00:16:50] it's. It's unbelievable what this person created now that wasn't driven out of this, [00:16:55] this central team, but that doesn't mean that that great work can't happen. So I think you have to be like [00:17:00] very aware of where the work is happening and who the leaders are that are just naturally, [00:17:05] intellectually curious and kind of bringing those things to the surface and then connecting the.
Jennifer Johnson: But I mean, [00:17:10] it's, it's fa like the, the transformation that we're going un [00:17:15] undertaking right now, which we're, we are still in the early innings as we all know. Like it's fan, it's phenomenal, [00:17:20] uh, to watch. Um, so we should be, I know it's challenging, but I think we [00:17:25] should also feel lucky that we're, you know, able to actually be part of, of this, you [00:17:30] know, this quite frankly, once in a generation, um, transformation.
Sydney Sloan: [00:17:35] So, uh, another area and, and it, I think it goes back to the whole product marketing and I grew up, I say I [00:17:40] grew up in product marketing too, so I I'm with you on that. And, and I wonder, sometimes I'm like, is [00:17:45] that the, having the product marketing background, is that a, is that one of the. [00:17:50] Areas that helps you become more strategic because we're trained to look at the market [00:17:55] lens first and, and, you know, talk to product and bring, you know, in, [00:18:00] uh, outward, um, uh, inputs into the strategic process. [00:18:05] Um, so my, I I'm curious as at the leadership level. So we've talked a lot about you [00:18:10] leading marketing, but at. At the C-Suite, how do you think about what it [00:18:15] means to be a strategic leader? And maybe give us [00:18:20] one example of the hardest thing that you had to do in the past year that you wanted to make happen, [00:18:25] and how did you convince the
Sydney Sloan: rest of the C-suite it was the right
Sydney Sloan: thing to
Sydney Sloan: do?
Jennifer Johnson: I mean, strategic CMOs, I [00:18:30] think by definition are transformational. So all, all of the things that, that we just talked about, I think part of that [00:18:35] is thinking about the market, not just the marketing, right? We've talked a lot about that in CMO [00:18:40] groups about like the, there's this chief market officer and.
Jennifer Johnson: You know that that takes different forms, but it's [00:18:45] really how looking at at the mark where the market's going, evolving, the market building categories. I think all [00:18:50] of that's part of a strategic CMO. I think you can look at any part of marketing [00:18:55] and there's a more of an operational, I hate saying tactical, but more of an operational side to [00:19:00] it and more of a strategic side to it.
Jennifer Johnson: Like you can look at lead gen and think, you know, mql, [00:19:05] or you could look at lead gen and think pipeline and revenue, right? I think it's just the lens in which you. [00:19:10] Approach it and how you represent your yourself and your function [00:19:15] at the C-suite level. That really, you know, that dictates that. Now, I will say that, [00:19:20] you know, everyone wants to be a, a strategic CMO, right?
Jennifer Johnson: At the end of the day, like [00:19:25] the majority of what we do still is, is operational and you need to be over [00:19:30] execution. And so I think that's the one thing that I always say, you know, is everyone wants to be the, [00:19:35] the, the person that is defining the strategy. And you have to be able to sit there and define, you have to be [00:19:40] part of the strategy definition, but you also have to make sure that your team is, is executing [00:19:45] on it.
Jennifer Johnson: And you know that is making sure that you yourself are over the details. Making sure you have [00:19:50] leaders that are over the details. The details matter a lot. That's something that we [00:19:55] stress a lot at at CrowdStrike is, you know, not just doing the big things well because we, [00:20:00] we do the big things really, really well.
Jennifer Johnson: But also making sure that all those little details, because all those little [00:20:05] details matter. And I, I think as CMOs it's, and it's not micromanaging, but I, I [00:20:10] think we have to find a balance of being able to kind of go broad and also go [00:20:15] deep at the same time. And I think that's the biggest, that's the biggest challenge I think that CMOs be, and [00:20:20] I do think you can't.
Jennifer Johnson: You can't just be strategic if you're not gonna be operational. That's my point of view.
Jon Miller: [00:20:25] The, the execution earns you the right to be
Jon Miller: strategic. You know, a a [00:20:30] line that I've heard is pipeline is permission, right? So if you're not delivering on the core numbers, you [00:20:35] don't have the credibility to then go bring in these sort of bigger, [00:20:40] broader, uh, you know, strategy. So, I mean, I, I think that makes total sense.
Jon Miller: Re related [00:20:45] to this though a little bit is, is something that I've also heard called as, you know, the CMO tax, [00:20:50] which is, you know, in many ways the CMOs we're really the only C-suite. [00:20:55] I think constantly has to be justifying the value of our [00:21:00] role and our function to the rest of the C-Suite. Um, do you feel anything like [00:21:05] that and, you know, what, what, what works for you to, you know, [00:21:10] be, be establishing, you know, kind of, you know, marketing as, as an [00:21:15] equal member of
Jon Miller: the C-suite?
Jennifer Johnson: So to what you just said, I couldn't agree with it more so I, I was [00:21:20] actually on a panel yesterday. It's interesting that this question and, [00:21:25] um, it was around thought leadership and the question was around thought leadership and the question was [00:21:30] how do you justify the value of your thought leadership to your CFO?
Jennifer Johnson: And I was [00:21:35] on a panel with three other CMOs. All, all esteemed colleagues, and I was the [00:21:40] last one on down the road to answer the question and not one of them. Said [00:21:45] pipeline, which I was actually kind of floor floored about. Right. And, and [00:21:50] like that was very simply like the buck stops with pipeline and revenue.
Jennifer Johnson: And so, you know, there, there's [00:21:55] KPIs of course, that we measure around brand awareness and brand sentiment and [00:22:00] you know, all of that matters a lot. But at the end of the day, if you're not doing it in the. [00:22:05] In the, you know, in the spirit of driving revenue then, like we're, we're growth [00:22:10] companies, right? And so to me, pipeline is permission.
Jennifer Johnson: It is the number one [00:22:15] metric, the number one KPI, the number one thing I talk about at, at our board meetings, [00:22:20] you know, everything and everything else is done in the spirit of, you know, building a category for [00:22:25] the sake of building a category. Well, you're doing it obviously to, to drive leadership and, and revenue [00:22:30] as a result of it.
Jennifer Johnson: So I was actually surprised at that.
Sydney Sloan: that's, that is [00:22:35] crazy. And I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna tease Jon onto a soapbox. This is gonna be fun. This is not in our script. [00:22:40] Um, because, you know, you just mentioned that you talk about pipeline at the board [00:22:45] meeting. Do you talk about all pipeline? And, uh, and then I'll let Jon follow up on like the [00:22:50] metrics
Sydney Sloan: side of that.
Sydney Sloan: He's so passionate
Sydney Sloan: about,
Jennifer Johnson: Yeah, I mean, I, I, I keep it at a high [00:22:55] level. Obviously they're not, they don't wanna go down into the, into the details. But I mean, it's, do we have [00:23:00] good, you know, is our pipeline health good, solid? You know, we look at things in the, in the [00:23:05] lens of are we driving, uh, new customer acquisition? Are we [00:23:10] effectively and efficiently expanding our.
Jennifer Johnson: Install base and Dr. I mean, platform con consolidation is a big [00:23:15] part of our strategy, making sure that we're looking at it through both lenses. So we actually have [00:23:20] broken out two different funnels now. So before we used to have one blended funnel, that was everything. Now we actually [00:23:25] look at everything in the context of new customer acquisition and expansion.
Jennifer Johnson: And I, I would say [00:23:30] that's another thing that I would, I would encourage. CMOs to do because when you blend it, but [00:23:35] we know the story here, the natural tendency is to, it's, it's, if you're just looking at what is, [00:23:40] I put a dollar in, what's the most effective, you know, ROI, on the other side, of course it's gonna be expansion [00:23:45] because they're existing customers already.
Jennifer Johnson: And so you're gonna make potentially. Um, [00:23:50] suboptimized decisions if you're looking at things from a blended point of view. So I always talk just in [00:23:55] general about how are we doing on new customer acquisition? What are the levers that are actually moving the needle? If we're getting stuck, [00:24:00] where are we getting stuck and why?
Jennifer Johnson: Is it a market problem? Is it an execution problem? What are we doing about it? I mean, [00:24:05] that's really kind of where, you know, where I, where I keep that, that, that level of, of the [00:24:10] altitude.
Jon Miller: I love that you separate the, you know, pre and, and, and post-sale. What, what Sydney [00:24:15] was getting at a little bit is, you know, are you trying to sort of do marketing sourced [00:24:20] pipeline versus sales source
Jon Miller: marketing Yes. I.
Jennifer Johnson: Yes, yes. So, okay. So [00:24:25] yes, we have um, we have marketing, we have sales, we have our partner [00:24:30] alliances and our sales development team is also a channel because they're, they're predominantly an outbound [00:24:35] motion. So we have actually all four as contributors. So when we build our pipeline targets, we build [00:24:40] targets and, and we have it now for both new customer and expansion.
Jennifer Johnson: And we have targets at each [00:24:45] one of those. Um, each one of those contribution sources, and we're measuring that every week. [00:24:50] So I, I do, I do report on that at the board at a high level, but that's something that I'm looking at every single week. [00:24:55] Reporting on it every single week. And if there's, you know, something that's off, we can proactively, [00:25:00] uh, address it.
Jennifer Johnson: But then
Jennifer Johnson: source versus influence is kind of the next, the next phase of [00:25:05] this right. Is, is, and that's, that's a tricky one, right? Because you've got multi-touch attribution. That's been [00:25:10] a little controversial, controversial, um, in our organization of, you know, how [00:25:15] effective is it? I'd love your perspective on it.
Jennifer Johnson: What are, what are, are organizations kind of leaning out [00:25:20] from things like MTA.
Jon Miller: uh, this is Sydney brings up 'cause it obviously is [00:25:25] controversial and it's varied across a lot of companies. There's a lot of desire from CFOs to [00:25:30] be able to point to, well this. Is marketing source versus this is sales source so that they can make allocation [00:25:35] decisions. Right. But at least I firmly believe that buying is way too [00:25:40] complicated to try to attribute it to any one touch.
Jon Miller: You know, it's [00:25:45] complex, it's non-linear. It's the conversations in the dark communities you can't see. It's increasingly the [00:25:50] a EO, you know, AI chats, right? So, yeah. So somebody, an SDR prospects into an [00:25:55] account that, that, uh, you know, tries to create something, what is the [00:26:00] first thing that that. Recipient of that email does they go type that company into the AI [00:26:05] engine to see is this worth their time?
Jon Miller: So if you show up on the, on the AI search, [00:26:10] then the SDR gets a response, right? Is that marketing source sales sourced? I don't [00:26:15] know. So per, per, you know, so I, I, it sounds like your top level number [00:26:20] is the total pipeline, you know, and then you report on that. But then you at least are trying [00:26:25] to get to that next level of detail with multi-touch attribution, which may or may not.[00:26:30]
Jennifer Johnson: It's not perfect. Uh, it's not perfect, but it's, it's better than, to [00:26:35] your point, it's better than not, not having anything. And, and marketing, to your point, marketing, [00:26:40] marketing influence is a hundred percent of the, of
Jennifer Johnson: the, the deals.
Sydney Sloan: Yeah.
Jennifer Johnson: [00:26:45] Absolutely right. Especially the part we, we can't, we can't see and we can't track 'cause it's, it's before they even [00:26:50] engage with us.
Jennifer Johnson: Right. Um, and even then there's, you know, there's, you know, probably hundreds of [00:26:55] touch points between the first touch and them
Jennifer Johnson: becoming a customer.
Sydney Sloan: I am seeing and [00:27:00] recommending that people go back to self-reported attribution, right? Like I, 'cause I think [00:27:05] in the, in the psychology of the person. That's super interesting. Like where [00:27:10] did they go and, and you.
Sydney Sloan: And even though we can track almost everything, I don't think we can. [00:27:15] We can anymore. Right? We, we thought we could, but we can't. So just asking them I think is super [00:27:20] important and. Because that's where you then wanna double down. Okay, if this is where they went, then we [00:27:25] wanna make sure that we're owning that channel and we're optimizing that channel and, you know, continuing to do [00:27:30] more and more.
Sydney Sloan: The rest of attribution is just to help justify like [00:27:35] your ROI and your spend and make sure that you've got your channel mix right. In my opinion,
Sydney Sloan: not for [00:27:40] claiming credit. I agree with you.
Sydney Sloan: Like it should be a hundred percent across the board,
Jennifer Johnson: Yeah, and we're, we're, I mean, we're [00:27:45] unified as a Go-To-Market leadership team. Like our, you know, my, my, our CRO will be the first one to [00:27:50] say, like, he's less worried about if it's coming from marketing or sales or alliances. We're either, as a company, [00:27:55] we're either hitting the pipeline number or we're not.
Jennifer Johnson: And if we're not, we all need to come together as a Go-To-Market [00:28:00] team, not as sales or marketing or alliance. And figure out how we're gonna close the gap. [00:28:05] Right? And so I think if you start with that lens is we're just, it, it's, it's one number, it's one company [00:28:10] and it, and how are we gonna achieve it as a Go-To-Market function, right?
Jennifer Johnson: Then? I think [00:28:15] that's the way to look at it.
Sydney Sloan: I I wish I two companies ago, oh my gosh. It was just like we had the [00:28:20] four functions and when one was underperforming, they looked to me and were like, you need to go [00:28:25] make up the difference. And I'm, it was just such an unhealthy environment of [00:28:30] like. Who sources what and you know, and the accountability and [00:28:35] it, and just like the whole team spirit, there is a critical piece to it
Jon Miller: Yeah.
Sydney Sloan: to [00:28:40] enjoy your job.
Jon Miller: B, so back to like marketing influences everything. I mean, brand is in the [00:28:45] air, right? Br like by definition, brand is affecting our buyers' emotions and [00:28:50] psychologies in a way that touches every single deal. But obviously it's just notoriously [00:28:55] hard to measure. It's hard to, it is hard to track. So, you know, how, how are [00:29:00] you making that case to your CFO for brand [00:29:05] investments?
Jon Miller: You know, are you increasing
Jon Miller: it?
Jon Miller: How does that fit for
Jon Miller: you?
Jennifer Johnson: Yeah, I mean, well, we [00:29:10] look at, we look at awareness aided and unaided. We have sentiment measures that we track. [00:29:15] Uh, we have, you know, uh, a, a survey we put out every six months on, you [00:29:20] know, AI leadership, uh, trust, like, so there's a, a whole series of things that we, that we use [00:29:25] to, to measure, which does help.
Jennifer Johnson: Um, but I think at the end, at the end, [00:29:30] we have an understanding a, across the C-suite, including the CFO [00:29:35] on investments in brands like that. They, it, it, I don't, I've [00:29:40] never had to sit in front of. My executive team and, and [00:29:45] justify why we need to do brand, right? Maybe I'm in a, in a, in a, [00:29:50] in a luxury position, but I think there's an inherent understanding that, you [00:29:55] know, if we have our, we, we work in a trust industry, right?
Jennifer Johnson: If we're doing all the [00:30:00] right things to build the community and build the trust and, and, and get the credibility and [00:30:05] the expertise, it's going to translate down downstream, right? Um, we did a [00:30:10] Super Bowl ad. Right. You could say that was a, that that's a waste of money. And I would [00:30:15] say that, you know, based on how we, how we measured it.
Jennifer Johnson: But I know you can't directly [00:30:20] link it. I mean, I think there's tools out there that say you can, but like, I know you can't directly link it to, I saw a [00:30:25] Super Bowl ad and therefore, you know, my deal size increased by X. But you can see it in the data, [00:30:30] right? We've all, we have done ABX testing on if someone is.
Jennifer Johnson: Has been exposed to the, [00:30:35] the spot on digital our, what is their conversion rate. So I mean, we've done some, some kind of cause and [00:30:40] effect things where we can kind of track it, but we know that it actually worked for us. Um, [00:30:45] Falcon is our big user conference. You could say that's a big brand moment for us, which is also [00:30:50] directly.
Jennifer Johnson: That's a, you can directly tie that back to pipeline and sales. And so [00:30:55] I think looking at you, you kind of can't look at these things in a, in, in silos anymore. [00:31:00] Right. Um, but I also have a, I also have a, an executive team that really [00:31:05] understands and appreciates the value of brand and, and everyone understands the value [00:31:10] of our brand.
Jon Miller: I don't think that's luck though, right? I think, you know, you as the CMO [00:31:15] have created that executive trust. Um, [00:31:20] any tips for other CMOs on kind of how you can create that and make that happen?
Jennifer Johnson: [00:31:25] Look, I think, I think to your earlier point, pipeline is permission, [00:31:30] right? And I think if you show that you are. You are, you have the right [00:31:35] strategy, the right plan, you are executing and you are providing results, right? On the things that [00:31:40] you can directly attribute, then I think you get permission to, to do some of these, these other things.
Jennifer Johnson: [00:31:45] I think also, you know, some of it is, some of it is just the community sentiment, [00:31:50] like, I hate to say it, but like some of it. You know, we ran a Super Bowl spot and we had customers [00:31:55] and partners and employees, you know, like sending notes to our executive team saying, I've never been [00:32:00] more proud to be a CrowdStrike customer than today.
Jennifer Johnson: Like, yeah, you can't measure that, but that [00:32:05] matters and that matters a lot. And when, you know, the team can, can kind of, kind of feel [00:32:10] that, I think there's an and, and you can foster that and make sure that everyone kind of, kind [00:32:15] of feels that themselves. I think that helps. Um, I think something like Falcon is like [00:32:20] that's a physical manifestation of everything that makes our brand and our community.[00:32:25]
Jennifer Johnson: What it is. And so I think those things are just, those are, those are easy because you can, you [00:32:30] can, it's visceral. You can feel it, right? But I think a lot of it is, is just being able to, [00:32:35] again, do, do the, do the things that that matter, the table [00:32:40] stakes that matter, like pipeline generation, and be able [00:32:45] to get people to feel the impact of doing some of these kind of more, [00:32:50] you know.
Jennifer Johnson: I don't wanna say touchy feely like we were on the sphere. This is like another good example. We would, [00:32:55] at Falcon last year, we, we did a, we did a, an activation on the sphere. [00:33:00] And we were one of the, not the first, but we were one of the first B2B brands to actually do, we were definitely the first [00:33:05] in cybersecurity to do an activation.
Jennifer Johnson: And I'll tell you like the, the amount of [00:33:10] engagement on social, the amount of people who were, who were like, this is the most, [00:33:15] like, it just provides a ha and we know this, it just provides a halo for your brand. And people [00:33:20] wanna be associated with the company that does these, you know, cool things and they wanna be associated [00:33:25] with the brand that is, you know, leading the way.
Jennifer Johnson: Especially in something that's like in cybersecurity, [00:33:30] that's so purpose-driven and mission-driven. Like people want to be associated with the, the, [00:33:35] the leaders that are actually charting the path forward. So it's a, it's a, it's a [00:33:40] statement for all of cybersecurity, not just for us as a, as as CrowdStrike when we do those kind of [00:33:45] things.
Jon Miller: One more practical follow up on this. So, you know, it, it's, you know, we're, we're, we're not that far away from budgeting [00:33:50] season when you're gonna be working on the 2027 budget. Um, do [00:33:55] you first of like, you know, how do you make the case for your marketing budget overall, and [00:34:00] do you split it out between brand and demand and how do you make
Jon Miller: that justification?
Jennifer Johnson: [00:34:05] So we do, so the first thing is, is kind of a people versus program. So [00:34:10] that's kind of the first thing that I'm, that I'm measuring. And I, I think now, given, [00:34:15] given ai, you know, we need to look at where we can continue to, to drive efficiencies. Right. [00:34:20] Um, and that's not a decrease the team size. Maybe it's more of we're gonna repurpose the, [00:34:25] the team to other areas of, of the team, right?
Jennifer Johnson: Uh, or we're gonna find ways to [00:34:30] implement AI to, to kind of flatten the hiring curve. That's probably the more of the goal over there. And then [00:34:35] on the program side, it's, it's looking at, yeah, I kind of view the world as, as brand and then all [00:34:40] things brand and all things revenue marketing. So brand and demand are kind of the two big, I mean, there's, there's analyst relations, there's [00:34:45] some other things, but those are kind of the two big, uh, buckets.
Jennifer Johnson: And for. For, for the, [00:34:50] the demand side. I mean, we have a very, um, you know, it's a very quantitatively [00:34:55] based, uh, kind of top down and bottom up analysis that, that we do, um, to [00:35:00] get to what we think is the, what we believe is the directional right answer and how much pipeline's gonna come out the other side.
Jennifer Johnson: [00:35:05] I'm sure it's everything that, that every other CMO does. And then we look at, you know, what do we wanna do [00:35:10] from a brand perspective? And we kind of bring those two things together. And then there's always a little bit of. You [00:35:15] know, like tweaking from that point forward. But what I don't wanna ever do is say. [00:35:20] Give demand the first, you know, the first pass and then whatever's left, [00:35:25] give it to brand. So I don't operate that way 'cause I think you're gonna make suboptimized decisions on the brand side. [00:35:30] So I always have my two leaders go build your, their plans and I mean, we have the, the, the strategic [00:35:35] imperatives.
Jennifer Johnson: They go build their plans off of that and their asks, and then we continue to refine from [00:35:40] there. But I wouldn't say give everything to demand and then whatever is left over, give it to brand.
Sydney Sloan: So [00:35:45] one of the things you said, like, you know, you hope that that efficiency from AI will [00:35:50] help flatten maybe the hiring curve. Another way that I've been hearing people talk about [00:35:55] it is just, you know, it's accelerating the speed. The challenge going back to your product marketing [00:36:00] team, and even when you think about your, like, big launch moments and, and lightning strike [00:36:05] activities, when product has accelerated their ability to deliver [00:36:10] faster, like how do you think about that particular area? Um, I, I [00:36:15] worry about it, right? Like it's great that if you build all these things, but if the customers don't know [00:36:20] about it, if your salespeople aren't enabled on it, like
Sydney Sloan: then it's just. Code for the sake of [00:36:25] code. And have you had to adapt there yet too, for your [00:36:30] teams and, and how do you think about still making sure that there's
Sydney Sloan: those lightning
Sydney Sloan: strike opportunities?
Jennifer Johnson: I [00:36:35] mean, I, I, we have this, we have this saying in CrowdStrike, there's the calendar and the [00:36:40] stopwatch, and we like to live on the stopwatch, right? And so I'm gonna equate that to marketing in this [00:36:45] case, right? There are things that are predetermined, you know, we have a fall release, we [00:36:50] have a spring release as an example to your question, right?
Jennifer Johnson: Those are what I would call the calendar moments, right? We time them [00:36:55] to. You know, big events happening, whether they're, it's RSA, whether it's Falcon, and we know [00:37:00] those are gonna be, those are rallying moments and those are cross-platform moments, right? So [00:37:05] there's, those are just kind of natural gravitational pulls for those two big things.
Jennifer Johnson: Now it's [00:37:10] the, everything that happens in between is the hard part. Those are the EAs. I think those are the more straightforward pieces. [00:37:15] How do you actually manage all the things in between, especially when we have a platform that [00:37:20] is 30 something modules now. If you equated that to market categories, it's probably seven [00:37:25] or eight different market categories, and so we have to, that is the [00:37:30] biggest.
Jennifer Johnson: Challenge that we have, to be honest as a marketing organization, is that we have to lead with [00:37:35] the platform because we're, the platform is where the war, the, the battle is being fought, [00:37:40] right? We, and so we always have to lead with our platform, but we still have to [00:37:45] simultaneously go deep into the categories.
Jennifer Johnson: Like cloud is an example, right? Identity is another [00:37:50] example because in every one of those categories. You have discreet [00:37:55] competitors that that's all they do. So, you know, cloud could be one of 32 [00:38:00] things we do versus someone like, you know, our competitors in this space, that that's all they do. [00:38:05] So you have to be able to go deep.
Jennifer Johnson: So what we've done is we've created these bigger platform moments that [00:38:10] are probably more. The calendar side. And then the product categories are more of like [00:38:15] the stopwatch side where we have, you know, we have what I call rapid offense plans. I [00:38:20] don't like rapid response. I like rapid offense. And so we look at what's trending in the [00:38:25] market, right?
Jennifer Johnson: Like what, what's, what signals we're getting from conversations, what competitor moves are [00:38:30] happening. We're using that to inform. Our content marketing strategy. Um, [00:38:35] and we're being able to, to, to kind of put that out in a rapid, uh, a rapid res, rapid offense [00:38:40] manner with whether it's on social or digital, like creating webinars, doing all kind of the, the, the kind of [00:38:45] the, the demand gen elements.
Jennifer Johnson: Um, we have. Uh, we [00:38:50] kind of package things together at more of like every month we do a customer newsletter. Right. 'cause they can't, [00:38:55] you know, that's kind of also hard. It's, it's a balance. I, I, I can't sit here and say that we've perfected it, to be [00:39:00] honest. 'cause I don't think any at scale large platform company can tell you that they've perfected it.
Jennifer Johnson: It's [00:39:05] always something we're gonna struggle with is how do you continue to like, make sure that we're getting enough [00:39:10] visibility and awareness. And that our sales team knows how to pitch all the things coming our mar [00:39:15] that our customers a, know that it's out there but also can consume it. Like it's not, it's a [00:39:20] non-trivial, it's a non-trivial challenge, I will say, but we're trying to kind of [00:39:25] balance both.
Jennifer Johnson: So calendar and stopwatch is my, is is kind of where I'm landing [00:39:30] on this. Yeah.
Jennifer Johnson: Yeah.
Sydney Sloan: so we like to end ' with [00:39:35] gratitude because we know none of us could have gotten where we are without the people who [00:39:40] gave us the shot, supported us. I know you have a lot of fans. Um, so I'm really curious who,[00:39:45]
Sydney Sloan: who you would like to share gratitude
Sydney Sloan: towards.
Jennifer Johnson: uh, I love this se this [00:39:50] part of, of it that's really lovely that we're doing this. Um, there's many, but if I were to pick like [00:39:55] three, I'd say the first is Michelle Fester. So Michelle, I worked [00:40:00] for Michelle at, uh, mercury and HP in, in product marketing [00:40:05] and I always, I think everyone in their. Career has that person that like maybe saw [00:40:10] something in them that they didn't see, or gives you the confidence to kinda push yourself to a place where you [00:40:15] wouldn't have done it on your own.
Jennifer Johnson: And she really did do that for me and she kind of just [00:40:20] pushed me out on, on the, on the stage, so to speak. And, and, uh, she was a great advocate and [00:40:25] a great cheerleader and I learned a ton from her. Um, and she really did change the [00:40:30] trajectory of my career. Um, and I couldn't ever [00:40:35] thank her enough for that.
Jennifer Johnson: Um. Dave Peterson is probably another one. He was [00:40:40] a, a, a colleague of mine. Um, I worked for him at, at Verti. He, I worked with [00:40:45] him again as play bigger. Um, he's definitely the best storyteller that I've ever met [00:40:50] ever in my life. Uh, outside him and Christopher Lockett are probably the two. Um, and, uh, just [00:40:55] been a, a, a really good, you know, you always need those people that, that [00:41:00] help you.
Jennifer Johnson: You know, bounce, I, you can bounce ideas off them. They're your thought partners. [00:41:05] Um, we have very complimentary skill sets and so like I would work with him [00:41:10] 10 times over again and, and I think he, he helped me shore up maybe some of the [00:41:15] areas where I, I wasn't as strong, um, over my, my career. And, and I'd say [00:41:20] the third and, um, it was, it was the, the, um, the CEO of Tenable [00:41:25] Amit, Iran, who unfortunately passed away, um, last year, but he [00:41:30] was.
Jennifer Johnson: Just a phenomenal person and he was my biggest cheerleader and my biggest [00:41:35] fan. Um, he was. He was not, he was hands-on [00:41:40] enough, but not in the sense of he trusted you to, to do your job. And [00:41:45] that was probably one of the most outside of, of, of CrowdStrike. That was the most [00:41:50] rewarding experience of my whole career because we were able to go and build a category that now [00:41:55] the whole market exposure management that started with Tenable and the whole market uses it now [00:42:00] in cyber.
Jennifer Johnson: And we took a company public and he was just a wonderful human [00:42:05] being that lifted everyone up. And everyone, everyone needs [00:42:10] someone like Amit and for those who, who were able to know him, like they understand what I'm, what, where exactly [00:42:15] where I'm coming from. So, um, you know, those are just three.
Sydney Sloan: Yeah,
Jennifer Johnson: I could [00:42:20]
Jennifer Johnson: 20
Sydney Sloan: and I'm sure you. You've done that. I think at this point too in our career is like us being able to [00:42:25] see that in others and pay that forward is
Sydney Sloan: also such the rewarding part. I mean, we, we've been [00:42:30] doing this a long time and you can like, see it and, and put people in the right role. So I'm, I'm sure you've [00:42:35] done that for, for many. Well, we are at the end and I wanna do a quick [00:42:40] wrap up. Of all the things I learned, I, I could spend another hour 'cause it was. Uh, so, so insightful [00:42:45] and interesting, but I think, you know, you, you are one of the most strategic CMOs that I know [00:42:50] and, uh, what you shared in terms of, you know, coming at it from a [00:42:55] consultative and transformational mindset, like having that big picture of where you want [00:43:00] the company to go, how do you shape the markets? And then how do you bring the team along to [00:43:05] execute on that vision? Is is part one.
Sydney Sloan: The second thing I loved that you said, [00:43:10] and, and Jon said it too, is pipeline is permission. So you have to get that right and reporting on it, [00:43:15] understanding all the different various sources and, and being able to do that consistently [00:43:20] well will give you permission to make those investments and other things and build the trust that allows you to take [00:43:25] some of those fun risks.
Sydney Sloan: Um. And then the last area that we touched on [00:43:30] was the idea of the clock and the stopwatch. And I do think that that is something that people have to [00:43:35] have in mind. We still need, need the big crowd, like the lightning, CrowdStrike, lightning strike [00:43:40] moments, um, in, in being able to like make a statement in the industry and [00:43:45] finding those points in time. And in order to do that and build the brand and do the big fun things [00:43:50] your customers and prospects can like look towards. We still need those moments, [00:43:55] but we also need to figure out how to act at the speed of which the market is shaping and shifting. [00:44:00] And so the clock, the, the calendar versus the, the stopwatch is that one.
Sydney Sloan: [00:44:05] So, uh, thank you so much JJ for being here and, and taking the time. I know you're a very, very [00:44:10] busy person. For those of you that are listening, if you wanna hear more and learn more. [00:44:15] Please go to the b2b CMO project.com. There are more podcasts with amazing [00:44:20] CMOs sharing their secrets and stories. There's our custom research and our, um, [00:44:25] manifesto if you'd like to join, if you're a, at scale CMO, we are building a [00:44:30] community of.
Sydney Sloan: Folks like jj, where we learned together because there is no playbook for what we're doing [00:44:35] right now. And so we have to share our stories and our learnings and, and together as a community, we will, [00:44:40] we will be able to tackle this transformation of our lifetime. So
Sydney Sloan: thanks jj. Thanks Jon. [00:44:45] Everybody have a great
Sydney Sloan: day. [00:44:50] [00:44:55] [00:45:00] [00:45:05] [00:45:10] [00:45:15] [00:45:20] [00:45:25] [00:45:30]