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This is a show for burnt-out fashion designers (and TDs, PDs, patternmakers and beyond) who want more flexibility while still doing work they love. As a freelance fashion designer, you can build your fashion career on your own terms. Freelancing in fashion is the only way to get freedom in your day (instead of being tied to a desk). Whether you want to earn extra money on the side, fund your fashion brand, or replace your salary, the FDGP podcast will help you get there. Listen in for actionable tips and strategies to kickstart or grow your career as a freelance fashion designer, build your confidence, and create the life you want. Hosted by $100k+ fashion freelancer Sew Heidi, the show features interviews and strategy sessions with successful freelance fashion designers from around the world who've ditched toxic fashion jobs and taken control of their own destinies. This is the only place to get REAL insights from REAL freelancers who have built REAL careers on their own terms. (Formerly the Successful Fashion Freelancer podcast.)
Heidi [00:00:00]:
I always talk about how learning how to price is like learning how to sew. You learn by doing. Every fabric will need different tensions and threads and feet, and you'll never learn until you actually start putting fabric through the machine. So whenever freelancers come to me and they wanna have set package rates, I tell them that they might not be ready. It's like trying to sew a wedding dress on your first project ever. It's going to take time and learning and understanding of the nuances of different clients or different fabrics to get to that point. There is actually a much better way to go about your pricing than jumping right into set package rates. And it's exactly what I'm talking about today in this podcast episode.
Heidi [00:00:35]:
You're gonna hear a clip from a strategy session for one of my fast track students where we talk through pricing and how she can tell her clients what her prices are as well as what to do when they say that her prices are too high. You're going to love it, but also just like learning how to sew, you're not gonna learn just from listening. You're going to learn from doing. So take all my tips, but also go out there, get the work, and learn how to figure out your pricing firsthand. Let's get to it.
Elexis Spencer [00:01:00]:
Okay. And then the offer, I guess, like, we could talk about that a little bit. Like, what are your thoughts and opinions on, like, what you've seen from other freelancers, their offers?
Heidi [00:01:12]:
I think that it's until you've been working with brands and you really have a very specific idea of your exact customer and their needs and their niche, which can take, like, a couple years of freelancing, to be honest, I think it's really hard to put together a set package. Because every brand is gonna be different and need different things. They might not need the mood boards. They might not, you know, need the design. Maybe they need more help with tech sketches and tech packs and maybe some product development stuff and or vice versa. And so I know you said you have this for one style. It was a mood design and tech pack for 17.70 or something. Was that it? Okay.
Heidi [00:02:13]:
I mean, price wise, that sounds reasonable to me. But I I think that where you're at in your freelance career and business, it's going to be more of, like, custom pricing for each client until you worked with, like, 20, 30 clients and you start to really refine, like, okay, I do work with big established brands and here's how I know I fit best into their ecosystem and what they tend to need. And you can kind of dial packages in over time with that. But like figuring out package based pricing is very much a living, breathing thing that comes with time a lot, a lot of time. Okay. So where I would start with the pricing, I think 65 an hour is very workable. And so kind of depending on, you know, each conversation you have is gonna be unique and a little bit different. So it might be, you know, depending on their needs and depending on their project, you can you can decide whether you wanna, like, offer an hourly rate or whether you wanna offer a package rate.
Heidi [00:03:29]:
And I would put together a custom package specifically for them based off of their needs. And then you can just sort of calculate that based off of the time that you know you're gonna put into that if you wanna do a package price. And also the value of what your services, you know, what are the value? What's the value of what you're delivering? It's not always just about the time. Right?
Elexis Spencer [00:03:54]:
Absolutely. Which is why I don't like doing hourly, and that's why I kinda like make it a little bit more expensive. Yeah. Totally. For doing package pricing.
Heidi [00:04:06]:
You can absolutely. Yeah.
Elexis Spencer [00:04:09]:
Whenever I'm on a phone call with someone and they ask what my pricing is, would I just respond, let's hone in on your needs a little bit better so I can send you over a custom proposal? Okay. Got it.
Heidi [00:04:23]:
Exactly. You just say, you know, every client I work with is so different and has such unique needs that I, I can't just, you know, I don't have set pricing. I'm I'm happy to put together a proposal specific to your needs. And so I would love to talk a little bit more about where you're at and and what your needs are. And then one thing you can do, to sort of, you can give a ballpark. So if you feel like based off the converse that you say, then you're like, let's talk a little bit more about where you're at and what exactly you need help with. And then after I get some questions answered on that, I can give you a rough idea of, of a ballpark. And so that way you can and, and I like this because you're you're able to gauge the reaction on either a phone call or like a Zoom call, and you can tell so much more about that than if you just blindly send over this proposal for $1700 or $4,000 or whatever it might be.
Heidi [00:05:31]:
So if you're talking to them and they're like, okay, well, we need help with 3 styles, and we already have mood boards put together. We need and we have rough ideas for design. We need someone to do flats and the tech packs. And and you can ask some questions about the tech packs. Like, okay, what do you need for the tech packs? Like, do you already have, base POMs established for this type of silhouette? Do you already have trim and label guidelines and placement or, you know, like, you can kind of understand what they do and don't need for the tech packs. And then after that, you can say, okay, let me work up some numbers and I'll put together a custom proposal for you. But I think that the range is probably gonna be between 3 to 4000 or whatever the number, 4 to 5000. And then you say that very casually.
Heidi [00:06:27]:
I heard from I learned from someone once. You you state your prices that you're stating the time,
Elexis Spencer [00:06:33]:
Like,
Heidi [00:06:33]:
it's only matter of fact. So that's gonna be about 4 to 5000. But let me crunch some numbers and and put a more custom proposal together for you. And so you say that price and then you shut up. Literally don't say anything. Feel their reaction. Okay? So you'll start to gauge if you, if their reaction is like, oh, maybe that's a little too high or okay, great. That's kind of where we were thinking.
Heidi [00:06:59]:
And if you feel the, oh, that's a little bit too high, you can, you know, wait for them to say something. You can ultimately be like, you know, I get the feeling that that might be a little bit high or if they say something specific, it'd be like, you know, we can definitely talk about, you know, reeling in the scope of deliverables. Or maybe we start with one style instead of 3, you know, to get that closer to where you're at with budget. You know, what were you thinking about in terms of price? So I like giving the ballpark on the phone for or during a call for a couple of reasons. 1, you can gauge the response. 2, it gives you the opportunity to discuss price before you put together spend all the time to put together a proposal, send it over, and then maybe they got sticker shock and they ghost you. Yeah. So it saves all that time on your side and just kinda gets everything out on the table.
Heidi [00:07:57]:
It's going to be a learning curve to like have those conversations on the fly in real time and, and kind of go back and forth on negotiating with price, etcetera. But I think it's a really great exercise, for a freelancer to start learning how to have those conversations and really starting to, like, feel out what is the response from the client to the prices. Mhmm.
Elexis Spencer [00:08:23]:
I will
Heidi [00:08:23]:
reiterate, say the price, and then stop talking. Give them time to digest and see what they say, even if there's an awkward bit of silence. And then depending on their reaction, if you feel like their reaction was maybe a little bit knee jerk because it was too high or if they're like, oh gosh, that's a lot more than we were thinking. You can say, great. Let's talk about, you know, before I put together a proposal, let's talk about ways we can make this work. Like what was a budget you were thinking? Or, you know, maybe we start with 1 style instead of 3. Or, you know, I can break this up into, like, 3 payments due over the course of the project to help allocate that into your budget. You can explore a trial rate option.
Heidi [00:09:05]:
So there's a lot of ways you can sort of navigate that conversation based off of their reaction. But it gives you the opportunity to to do that rather than sending the proposal and having it go into a black hole and then never hearing back. Because that does happen sometimes. Yeah. Yeah.
Elexis Spencer [00:09:23]:
That's a really good point. That actually just from oh, I'm sorry.
Heidi [00:09:27]:
Yeah. Go ahead.
Elexis Spencer [00:09:29]:
I actually did have another phone call. I forgot. But this person reached out to me, and I told her that price on the phone, and she was like, okay. Like, her voice got high.
Heidi [00:09:42]:
The 1770 price?
Elexis Spencer [00:09:43]:
From her. Yeah. Yeah.
Heidi [00:09:46]:
So at that point, you clearly heard her voice. You heard in her voice that the price was maybe a little bit higher than she thought it was gonna be. So you could jump in and say, hey, you know, I couldn't help but notice, it's I feel like, you know, that price maybe land a little high for you. Can you tell me more about, you know, what you were thinking or, you know, how how we could make this work? You know, maybe we can reel back the scope of the project to make this fit within your budget. And just kind of opening up that conversation a little bit more and starting to get a little bit more feedback.
Elexis Spencer [00:10:20]:
Okay.
Heidi [00:10:21]:
Yeah. There's always opportunity to do that when you're on the phone. It's it's much harder over email.
Elexis Spencer [00:10:27]:
I completely agree.
Heidi [00:10:28]:
Yeah.
Elexis Spencer [00:10:29]:
Okay. That's really good. Because I just, like, sometimes feel like my pricing scares people, but it's, like, on the grand scheme of things. Like, it it makes sense.
Heidi [00:10:39]:
It does. But like
Elexis Spencer [00:10:40]:
you said, like, it can be tailored to them as well.
Heidi [00:10:43]:
It can be tailored to them. And if you feel like it's scaring people, then there's a couple things. It can be in how you're presenting it. Like, you need to be leading with the value and the benefits and the results that you deliver. It's not just like a tech pack. Right?
Elexis Spencer [00:11:00]:
Right.
Heidi [00:11:01]:
I think there's opportunity to show them an example of what, you know, if if they're looking for a design and tech pack package, I you should have one ready on your screen, assuming you're on zoom, to pull up and say, Hey, let me show you what this package actually, like what, what this looks like when I do a design mood board and design and tech packs, like this is what that looks like and showing them everything that they're going to get. Especially, you know, I know you're kind of still undetermined whether or not you're going to be working with smaller, more established brands, but especially when it comes to smaller brands who, you know, one person is still doing everything and maybe they don't have proper tech packs. They might, you know, they might not understand like what actually goes into a tech pack. So when you can pull up and show them and walk them through a really detailed tech pack of what they're going to get, that all of a sudden can change their perception of the value of the deliverable. And then you can talk through about how, how and why the tech pack is so valuable because it, you know, it's going to make sure the protos come back right the first time it holds the factory accountable. We have all the graded specs and the poms, the graded pom in here. So we make sure every size is gonna fit well. You know, it acts as a tracking document.
Heidi [00:12:18]:
Like, you can start to sell them on the benefit and the value of that rather than, you know, a tech pack. And when they're like, oh, why am I going to pay this much money for some some drawings with some, like, call outs. Like they just might not even understand what it actually is, you know? So I think that that also gives, you know, when you can have those price conversations over the phone, it also gives you the opportunity to visually walk them through that package, or parts of that package and show them what it is that they're getting, which massively increases the value perception.
Elexis Spencer [00:12:58]:
Yeah. That's really good. I like that a lot. Absolutely.
Heidi [00:13:04]:
Yeah. So I I think as far as your pricing goes, it's gonna be, like, a custom thing for a while. And try having those conversations on the phone. And if you feel that sort of kick back, like, open that conversation up for more dialogue. Like, hey, you know what?
Elexis Spencer [00:13:27]:
Let me
Heidi [00:13:28]:
and even before you, you say the pricing, you can open up and you can say, hey, you know what? Let me show you, like, what a tech pack looks like for me. Like, I wanna show you everything that goes into that. And then you can say, you know, tech pack start at a thousand each, depending on the complexity of the style or whatever the price, you know, that you might have in your head for tech packs or the design component or what have you. And I think showing them that first and then jumping in with, you know, and the prices, the prices started about this. So I think for you, the price would be roughly in this range. How does that sound? And then feel the reaction and and then open up with, you know okay. I I understand that's maybe a little higher than you were anticipating. You know, what were you thinking? Or let's talk about ways we can make this work.
Elexis Spencer [00:14:22]:
I love that.
Heidi [00:14:24]:
Yeah.
Elexis Spencer [00:14:25]:
Yeah. Because usually it's, like, we'll be on the phone, and it'll be going well. And then, like, towards the end, they'll be, like, so how are things all of this? Yeah. Yeah. And then it feels like they're, like, okay. Let's get off the phone. Yeah. So I like the way how you're saying, okay, this is good.
Elexis Spencer [00:14:43]:
Yeah. This is really good.
Heidi [00:14:44]:
And there's a little bit of a learning curve on, like, maybe a lot of bit of a learning curve on navigating these conversations for sure.
Elexis Spencer [00:14:53]:
Yeah. But now I have the tools. So You
Heidi [00:14:56]:
have the tools. Good. And you'll get better with practice on each one. And it is a continually refined skill.
Elexis Spencer [00:15:08]:
I feel that.