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NET Society is unraveling the latest in digital art, crypto, AI, and tech. Join us for fresh insights and bold perspectives as we tap into wild, thought-provoking conversations. By: Derek Edwards (glitch marfa / collab+currency), Chris Furlong (starholder, LAO + Flamingo DAO), and Aaaron Wright & Priyanka Desai (Tribute Labs)
00;00;16;00 - 00;00;19;27
Aaron
So Pri. You're feeling, quite doomerish today. Is that what I'm hearing?
00;00;19;29 - 00;00;44;09
Pri
I don't know if it's doomer or if it's just this, like, existential, existential feeling that I, obviously, I'm excited for. I, I there's a lot of reasons why I'm at the bleeding edge, you know, tip of the spear, blah, blah, blah, all of those words. But it's more just like the realization of it's not necessarily Duma, but I guess it could be perceived as Duma.
00;00;44;11 - 00;01;11;07
Pri
I'm not Duma, but I do think that a lot of the American public is quite Duma and not high on AI at all. And I think it's going to be a little bit of a it's funny because it feels like the tech is there, but the political and social will of the technology feels like it's going to take a while and it's inevitable.
00;01;11;10 - 00;01;38;29
Pri
But yeah, setting in for me that like this is going to be an uphill battle politically. And this is in light of. So just to kind of give the audience a background, part of the reason why I think this is setting in or what setting in over the weekend was, the news that Sam Altman was targeted by two attacks, the, Molotov cocktail was thrown into his real, his home, I think, like, was it two different people?
00;01;38;29 - 00;02;07;01
Pri
Yes. And then, like, someone shot at his door, obviously, I mean, political. I haven't even called this political violence, but whatever type of violence is unacceptable and insane. But the reaction to it in in the like Instagram class of people I saw someone circulating tweets on their, you know, reaction. A lot of people were very supportive of this, probably more so than even like the Luigi Universal Healthcare CEO.
00;02;07;04 - 00;02;11;28
Pri
And it kind of just contextualizes like what normies think.
00;02;12;01 - 00;02;30;06
Aaron
Yeah, I mean, look, I mean, what he's done at the corporate level, putting aside all of his faults is pretty amazing, but I think I don't know his approval rating if there was one, but I bet it's pretty low just because he's he's not. I think most people don't view this like a, like a particularly likable character.
00;02;30;08 - 00;02;54;26
Aaron
Or at least he's not portrayed that way. I don't know him well enough or can't really speak to that, but this definitely feels like, like a reaction to that. I guess it kind of is on the heels of what, when they were like, there was issues with Tesla before, I guess I can tell if this is just like, like the new focal point of, like, the activist class, and they're just really focused on that now that there's a little less for them to be focused on otherwise.
00;02;54;26 - 00;02;59;01
Aaron
Or is this like a widespread feeling? I can't really tell.
00;02;59;03 - 00;03;16;06
Pri
I can't tell either, because most of the people I talked to that don't understand anything, but I it's not that they're not a fan. They just feel like they're going to be, obsolete. So they want to learn as much as possible, as quickly as possible and still stay relevant. Like that's what's driving them on the trend side because they find it interesting or compelling.
00;03;16;06 - 00;03;55;13
Pri
It's more, fear. But I think, you know, the fear for some people is manifesting in hate for a lot of the people who are developing the technology. And I was reading something early earlier, which it's like the jasmine sun thing that this is we get it. Like, saw her article what she said in but she made a good point, which I hadn't exactly formulated, but I think she says it well, like the AI populist populism as a worldview in which AI is viewed not only as a normal technology but as an elite political project, is to be resisted.
00;03;55;15 - 00;04;19;22
Pri
So not only do people feel like, hey, it may take my job, it may do it. Sam Altman, this kind of guy I don't really like. It's people as I see it, as this, like, elitist political project that's getting manufactured by, she said, out of touch billionaires and pushed, pushed, unwilling onto the public for capitalist efficiency, i.e. layoffs and population management, AI surveillance, you know?
00;04;19;22 - 00;04;37;08
Pri
And then, she notes, a populace don't really care whether judge is personally useful or if Waymo's eke out some safety gains. As utility as a tool is immaterial relative to the unwelcomed societal change it represents, which I think is actually fair. It's not that people you could use AI, but also hate it.
00;04;37;11 - 00;04;40;28
Aaron
And that's your sense. Like that's the the feeling from folks.
00;04;41;05 - 00;05;03;20
Pri
I don't know if that's the mass feeling though. And I don't want to be dumber about this, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see like Weather Underground type of vigilante groups forming in resistance to this technology. I saw a stat earlier today that 65% of just like normie people are against data centers. I just see flash points of obviously this is going to be a huge issue in the midterms.
00;05;03;20 - 00;05;24;29
Pri
It's going to be in it's going to be like the issue in 2028. And then you layer on like geopolitical conflict that, you know, the U.S is acting in the interest of like a tech arms race or protecting, you know, I'm being the first developer when it comes to technology. And so we're going to war for these resources to support this technology that's going to infuriate people.
00;05;24;29 - 00;05;52;15
Pri
I and that hasn't even really trickled in the fact that, like, hey, we might be protecting our AI, you know, AGI interest by global warfare. And I'm not it I don't mean to put it as starkly as that, but like, you could easily draw that connection. And whether or not like it's true that AI is a job killer or job producer or it has no material impact on jobs like the narrative of it affecting jobs is already here.
00;05;52;18 - 00;05;58;04
Pri
And so it doesn't actually matter if it does affect the job market or not. At least I think in the short term.
00;05;58;07 - 00;06;17;18
Aaron
I think in the short term it does. I mean, I think the jury's still out on the long run. Like I, I listened to a nice podcast from Derek Thompson's podcast. I forgot the name of it, but it was just talking about kind of like the economy and the job market, particularly for some, you know, young folks that are getting right at a at the college.
00;06;17;20 - 00;06;39;00
Aaron
And he brought on an Atlantic reporter who's looked into this. So, you know, pretty traditional media veneer. I think they're I think they're both at the Atlantic, actually. And they were just saying that economists can't really make heads or tails as to whether or not there has been any job loss due to AI at this point. You know, like the the acceleration is we'll say, well, now it's it's Jevons Paradox all the way down.
00;06;39;00 - 00;06;57;29
Aaron
And like, you know, more job and work will be created. You know, there was a long pause today from the, I think he said at least founder of box, the Dropbox competitor, Erin Levy, he was basically saying in his survey of like everybody that's using this on the software side, people just seem to be working more and more.
00;06;58;01 - 00;07;07;02
Aaron
They're they're tackling things that they otherwise wouldn't tackle, like kind of the mid to bottom of their to do lists, and they're just getting more stuff done. So, I just feel like that.
00;07;07;02 - 00;07;08;19
Pri
I mean, I feel that for myself.
00;07;08;22 - 00;07;09;12
Chris
Yeah.
00;07;09;14 - 00;07;34;13
Aaron
Like to me it just like points everywhere. And I can't like I reduce it down to like, there is like a, like almost like a standing activist class and they just need something to focus on. This is their new hobbyhorse, unfortunately. And so you probably write about the rest of it. I just don't know if it, if it actually will be, you know, the, the normal position and also like just any general polling, you know, who knows who's doing it, like, what's the question?
00;07;34;13 - 00;07;39;21
Aaron
I just I just have always lots of questions related to that. So I'm not quite sure.
00;07;39;23 - 00;08;04;11
Chris
Erin, saying that we just have to wait and see and that it's inconclusive is not a satisfying response. In the year of our Lord 2026. I know no one. And maybe no. It waits and sees. No one can accept the fact that you know what a serious, complicated, multifaceted issue that has trickle down effect throughout everything we do cannot be instantly understood.
00;08;04;13 - 00;08;09;23
Chris
And so you have to take a side. I'm sorry, but that's just the way the world works.
00;08;09;25 - 00;08;14;20
Aaron
Yeah, I know, I mean, maybe it's just there, right? And I just am picking the, the ambivalent one. Right?
00;08;14;26 - 00;08;35;21
Pri
So, I mean, I'm largely on your side. There's like me, an individual. I just am foretelling what I think is going to be a pretty important social and political, movement or issue. And like the someone get assassinated of the like, I'm definitely not hopeful. Hey, I don't want that. I think that's horrible. But like that would not be shocking at this point.
00;08;35;24 - 00;08;40;08
Chris
No, I guess not. I mean, we're going to go there, but can we know.
00;08;40;10 - 00;08;42;05
Aaron
That that's not the case? Yeah. I mean, that's.
00;08;42;05 - 00;08;47;27
Pri
What I mean. I don't want that to be the case at all. But like I think it's going to get pretty ugly before it gets better.
00;08;48;01 - 00;09;12;03
Aaron
Yeah. Or is it going to just moderate. Right. And people are going to get their beaks wet as this stuff goes into their workplace because really like it just went into software developers work workplace and in mass right in December. So a quarter ago you know different models are now being used by different folks, I'm assuming in their day to day whether that's like, you know, something from anthropic or OpenAI, right?
00;09;12;04 - 00;09;31;10
Aaron
They're using it for more than a search engine just because the model, the base models, or at least the free models are getting better or it's just more accessible on the cost side and they're just like, oh, well, this is pretty a great way for me to make faster presentations or a better charts. Like it's not that the like hype is not there yet, so I don't, I don't know.
00;09;31;13 - 00;09;40;18
Chris
Are you ready for some, really bad shit? I do my resume, I just go, so it's that's how we're feeling today.
00;09;40;18 - 00;09;42;00
Aaron
That's how we're feeling today.
00;09;42;03 - 00;10;12;26
Chris
Now. No, this one's great. As you guys know, I just came back from a trip last night. You know, the time zones all screwed up through on an episode of The Last Kingdom that are rewatching, which is, like in 10th century England in between, you know, featuring feuds between the Vikings and Saxons and all this shit. And so I had the craziest dream last night, in which apparently I was, a resident of Dane Linn, pledged to a sword lord, and the AI drone started attacking it on the fringes.
00;10;12;26 - 00;10;33;11
Chris
I was a watch, and I had to, run down to my liege lords and try to raise the alarm. And in my dream, I was so scared shitless of the existential threat of AI. But somehow I. I transferred it all the way back into the age of Vikings. So that's my Dima isms.
00;10;33;13 - 00;10;33;28
Aaron
Oh, man.
00;10;34;04 - 00;10;41;02
Chris
I mean, I just don't think, 10th century Frodo England is equipped to deal with, Skynet. Yeah.
00;10;41;04 - 00;11;03;16
Aaron
You know, I watch I watch that, Chris Pratt. Platt. I always forget his last name movie called mercy last night. It was about, you know, kind of like an AI court, which, of course, was like catnip for me. And it it kind of was, like, actually surprisingly nuanced on, like, the benefits and downsides of, of AI. And it's used to like, administer, you know, more complicated decisions.
00;11;03;16 - 00;11;29;14
Aaron
The premise of the movie was pretty much like, there's a I court in Los Angeles which which is like a dystopian hellscape that basically is the judge, jury, an executioner, and has access to, like full information about everybody, like a panopticon type thing. And it makes a mistake. And so they kind of ran through and at the end there was like something super cheesy, but kind of made sense, which was like, these systems are going to make mistakes in a way, and we both have a lot to learn from it.
00;11;29;14 - 00;11;35;25
Aaron
So there you go. Pretty even the doers got a little hopeful towards the end of, it's true Hollywood movie.
00;11;35;25 - 00;11;45;12
Chris
I don't think Chris Pratt is on the side of I do rumors. If I'm remembering my celebrities correctly, I don't think he is aligned with the woke is you name it.
00;11;45;15 - 00;11;47;15
Aaron
I have no clue.
00;11;47;17 - 00;11;50;03
Chris
Is he the Guardians of the Galaxy? Dude, I'm. I'm guessing.
00;11;50;05 - 00;11;56;15
Pri
Oh, yeah. He's not. He's not. I was thinking of Chris Pine for some reason. He's like, oh, he's like a libertarian guy, right?
00;11;56;17 - 00;12;06;27
Chris
He's very Christian. I know that much. So I assume he, I you know what? I'm not going to assume anything about Chris Pratt. I'm gonna stay out of, like, thinking. No thinking for Chris Pratt today.
00;12;06;29 - 00;12;08;26
Pri
When I have a question for you guys.
00;12;08;29 - 00;12;10;14
Chris
Okay, I might have an.
00;12;10;14 - 00;12;27;05
Pri
Answer, so. Okay, just to kind of go back to the I think so, but thinking about it when. So I was in third grade when I got AOL, I was like obsessed and addicted Sims, like the whole classic, like internet story of just like being like addicted and then, you know, whatever became just like very online quickly as a result of that.
00;12;27;05 - 00;12;40;14
Pri
And like my parents never really even they thought I was always doing homework or something on my laptop or computer, so they didn't really care. But I don't remember there being like anti internet sentiment. Like was there?
00;12;40;19 - 00;12;42;03
Aaron
I think there was a little bit.
00;12;42;05 - 00;13;06;02
Chris
Yeah, we were you were young and naive free. We hadn't the world hadn't descended into like duopoly oligarchy. You know, we, we were in like a free Peter Thiel in time and we didn't have the correct, we, you know, it was like first contact, the sort of thing we hadn't been hit with the, the diseases yet.
00;13;06;06 - 00;13;07;10
Chris
And so we were wide eyed.
00;13;07;11 - 00;13;20;26
Pri
Yeah. Right. Right. Okay. So it was only like, I mean, you had no benchmark of like the CDC, CDC basically saying that kids shouldn't be on social media for more than a 30 minutes a day or whatever they just randomly came out with last week. Yeah.
00;13;20;26 - 00;13;30;18
Chris
Like what was like the worst possible thing we were exposed to, like Televangelism MTV's Spring break? I don't know. You know what I mean? Like, everything was, like, benign compared to the.
00;13;30;18 - 00;13;40;28
Pri
Internet, right? Yeah. It's like it's almost a question. It's like the the internet, the, like, bad part of the internet taint ized adoption because everyone's just, like, so triggered by.
00;13;40;28 - 00;13;44;28
Aaron
Like, I think it's the bad part of the internet. I think it's just social media and the world is more network.
00;13;44;28 - 00;13;45;16
Pri
That's what I mean.
00;13;45;17 - 00;14;07;02
Aaron
So like any, any like, you know, strong minority voice. Right. That could be a minority voice as given to a specific position. It could be, you know, in a given society, they just they're they have a voice now. Right. So I think that that's actually what you see. Like I'm sure that there was a group of people that didn't like the internet when it came out.
00;14;07;02 - 00;14;19;06
Aaron
They just didn't really have a platform, to kind of express that. And now they do, and then they can band together and like discord channels and, like, kind of radicalize themselves. So I don't way what you're saying.
00;14;19;08 - 00;14;24;07
Chris
What you're saying. They use the internet to profess their stance against the internet.
00;14;24;09 - 00;14;24;17
Aaron
Yeah.
00;14;24;17 - 00;14;32;10
Chris
Completely. So that Ted Kozinski got this one right. You can't opt out of technology. Literally. The only thing this dude figured out.
00;14;32;12 - 00;14;51;26
Aaron
Yeah, I just feel like that's kind of like what has happened in part. And like, I think they started to dig into the person alleged to have conducted that activity against Sam and Pretty. And it was, of course like on a discord server. I guess some reporter gained access to it. And again, it's not fully verified, but let's assume that it is.
00;14;51;26 - 00;15;09;10
Aaron
And, you could see him, you know, get more and more strident in his kind of position over the course of a year, or he just became more and more concerned about things. And there's definitely things to be concerned about. I think it's it's great that people are worrying about that to me, that just like a good sign that we'll get to the right answer.
00;15;09;10 - 00;15;37;10
Aaron
I guess, a lot of folks don't have the confidence that that's the case. It is the kind of a dance between understanding the risks and kind of addressing them in different ways. I mean, even look at like, mythos, right? Whether or not, anthropic like overstated some of the security concerns. I do think it was like notable that they addressed them without the need for like, you know, government, top down regulation to make sure that they didn't, like, introduce something that would be, you know, particularly harmful to people.
00;15;37;13 - 00;15;47;18
Aaron
And I'm sure we're going to see, like a lot more issues around like Elm and psychosis and like all those bits like as, you know, as this technology begins to mature. So I just feel like that's the case.
00;15;47;20 - 00;16;10;29
Chris
So mythos like anthropic man, there's such like a wild company because a they clearly have got something to be. They're probably overselling it because that somehow seems to be like Dario's marketing and communication strategy is to get really concerned about, like the things they make and then somehow use that as their communications and then.
00;16;10;29 - 00;16;18;27
Pri
Also just to chime in there, he said that about ChatGPT like 2.5 or something, that it was like too dangerous to release. I don't know if you saw that on Twitter.
00;16;18;27 - 00;16;23;11
Aaron
I don't know if it was him or just some folks that are now at Anthropic Pre just
00;16;23;13 - 00;16;24;19
Pri
Oh, sorry.
00;16;24;22 - 00;16;26;06
Aaron
Sorry. Yeah. No, I mean.
00;16;26;10 - 00;16;28;12
Chris
Yeah it's that crowd.
00;16;28;14 - 00;16;32;04
Aaron
Yep. Yeah. I mean they're just hysterical. This is the downside of it.
00;16;32;07 - 00;16;53;06
Chris
It's like they're in thrall with the black magic. You know like there's there's somewhere between like Lord of the rings with, like, Saruman and all that weird shit. And like, Disney's Fantasia with Mickey Mouse and his little broom in the water bucket. But then the other thing is, like, everyone on the internet woke up to the fact that they nerf the hell out of their models.
00;16;53;08 - 00;17;21;23
Chris
Like, I don't know, I come back from, the UK and the timeline is filled with oh my God, they stomp on Claude. And I was like, hello? If you didn't, if you've been using this shit since like, October, you, you you knew this acutely. I'm not really sure. Like, I, I just can't understand how things escape, contain and become stories or, I'm not really sure it's just the displacement of information.
00;17;21;25 - 00;17;24;12
Chris
Is kind of weird around this stuff.
00;17;24;15 - 00;17;43;00
Aaron
Yeah. I mean, I think that they. There was legitimate concerns. You know, I follow a handful of security researchers, and I think it's those folks, they kind of dug in. They were like, well, we could do find the same thing with 5.4, right? Or if you're if you're actually saying, like, I'm not gonna face some sort of liability for like, hacking systems, like, I'm sure I could use some existing models to do that.
00;17;43;02 - 00;17;59;01
Aaron
I do think it's kind of like, the whole mythos thing. To me, it's more than like the, you know, the marketing positioning and whether that's intentional or due to like some sort of, you know, default perspective on the world, like you were describing. Chris. I'm not quite sure.
00;17;59;03 - 00;17;59;28
Chris
Like.
00;18;00;02 - 00;18;26;25
Aaron
Yeah, you did. But for me, it's more like, okay, like, these models are definitely getting more and more powerful. We're probably going to see like a different type of rollout for them if we see them at all. Right. Like, let's say the next version of mythos. Mythos two. Like, are we going to actually even hear about it or is that just going to go, you know, into like some secure, deeper part of different, you know, governments or organizations like, it feels like we're getting reasonably close to that.
00;18;27;00 - 00;18;31;09
Pri
Doesn't that stuff just leak out, though? Like it's, I don't know, model secret, right?
00;18;31;12 - 00;18;39;27
Aaron
I mean, it may right. Or it may not. Right. Like, I think that there is probably different parts of technology that haven't leaked out over time, I don't know. Yeah, it's a good.
00;18;39;27 - 00;18;41;02
Pri
Question.
00;18;41;04 - 00;18;50;22
Chris
I think you go with your wait and see. We don't know yet positioning how the how the hell is this podcast ever going to become big if we're like, if we're just new on you did.
00;18;50;24 - 00;18;54;11
Aaron
Yeah. Maybe we'll find the, the chunky metal that just watched like.
00;18;54;14 - 00;19;00;11
Pri
I don't like forced. I'm like, forced to take the dour position because I'm not even that big of a doing, but I do.
00;19;00;11 - 00;19;05;07
Aaron
I have a Bitcoin do in position if we want to go to doom reveal today.
00;19;05;10 - 00;19;06;22
Pri
Okay.
00;19;06;25 - 00;19;28;07
Aaron
All right. So there was a report, that said that Iran to cross the Strait of Hormuz was going to charge people a toll in Bitcoin. Still not 100% clear to me that that actually is the case. Or if it's just, like a digital asset in some capacity. But it got my mind kind of racing. Let's assume that it is true.
00;19;28;09 - 00;19;47;11
Aaron
So to cross kind of the strait, if you're like a big tanker, you're going to have to pay some like large fee in Bitcoin. Just given the US regime and sanctions regime, that means that at some point the wallets tied to that would get identified and kind of marked as, as wallets you can't really interact with.
00;19;47;14 - 00;20;08;24
Aaron
And given the volume of trade through that strait, it could actually raise like a fungibility crisis for Bitcoin. In the sense that, you know, you'd have all this Bitcoin being used to to deal with this commerce tied to, you know, different wallets. I'm assuming that some of that would, you know, find its way back into the real world or the, the rest of the digital asset economy.
00;20;08;27 - 00;20;44;00
Aaron
And if enough of that stuff is quote unquote tainted, you could you could see kind of a split in price between the tainted and untainted Bitcoin. This has been something that's been around for a while where like the market for virgin Bitcoin, where as some people call it, virgin bitcoin which comes from miners has like commanded a premium of up to like 10 to 20% that different times where you pretty much would have like kind of two markets for bitcoin, one for stuff that is tainted, kind of like gray market Bitcoin, one for, you know, virgin Bitcoin or Bitcoin that hasn't touched that economy.
00;20;44;02 - 00;21;11;10
Aaron
And if that happens it just creates like a whole bunch of really weird knock on effects. Like when you get kind of like a different spot pricing to creates like, challenges for ETFs that presumably can't transact or transact closely with that type of Bitcoin if they if they need to buy it. Three, you know, miners, you know, pretty much get a premium if they if they can sell their bitcoin just becomes like super, super duper messy.
00;21;11;12 - 00;21;23;07
Aaron
And given the volume of trade and again, assuming that this is true, like, you know, 60% of Bitcoin could get tainted in like five years. So Bitcoin can maybe could that pretty much fracture.
00;21;23;12 - 00;21;44;12
Chris
Maybe that's what they want. Aaron. Maybe this is a grand scheme to ultimately taint so much of the Bitcoin supply that the only answer is to fork into war. Liberty five bitcoin and strand Iran's Hormuz bitcoin. Maybe this is just another grift.
00;21;44;14 - 00;22;01;11
Aaron
I mean maybe yeah I mean I you know I think the other piece that's like subtle and I don't know if it's true. But if you're pricing like in a certain a certain sense and you're pricing oil in Bitcoin and so Bitcoin you know, does become like kind of the the new petrodollar in, in some sort of way or arguably becomes that.
00;22;01;11 - 00;22;24;12
Aaron
So I just think it's kind of interesting. Like there's just a lot of knock on effects of, of these geopolitical events. I'm assuming if that happened, there'd be like some regulatory response like either the, you know, there's like guidance that that as long as it's not the first hop or something like that, it would be fine to just preserve and prevent like that's spot Fisher, but just super weird, super weird knock on effects.
00;22;24;12 - 00;22;26;04
Aaron
So there's my bitcoin different.
00;22;26;07 - 00;22;36;03
Chris
How the year is 2029. And on Twitter there are shouting one BTC equals one oil tanker toll.
00;22;36;05 - 00;22;56;13
Aaron
To I mean pretty much I mean I mean that's the case. And like who knows because it's a dynamic system right. Like maybe there's less stuff that ship to that. And you're if you're following like that story, it seems like there's, you know, alternative ways to like kind of move around. Oil within the Middle East, you know, traffic is getting like, routed, you know, arguably into, into the US.
00;22;56;13 - 00;23;09;27
Aaron
Right? So maybe stuff, you know, routes through the Panama Canal a bit more like, who knows? So who knows how fast that happens. But just it is kind of like an interesting little thought exercise. Like what happens if, if that story is kind of real?
00;23;10;00 - 00;23;19;20
Pri
My one thing with this thesis, which I'm not understanding, is that wouldn't the untainted Bitcoin actually become more valuable? So it's it's not like shrinking the supply. Even more so for those with.
00;23;19;23 - 00;23;20;17
Aaron
Yeah. I mean it does.
00;23;20;18 - 00;23;21;13
Pri
Seems like.
00;23;21;16 - 00;23;41;22
Aaron
There's a spread that's the Virgin Bitcoin spread. And that's existed at different points in time. Just because the regulatory clarity around bitcoin has been tricky. So some people are like okay I don't I can't make heads or tails like the regulatory clarity. So I just want stuff that's super clean. And so they'll buy it directly from miners like the, the newly, you know, mined bitcoin, the quote unquote virgin bitcoin.
00;23;41;22 - 00;23;59;03
Aaron
And then they'll pay more for it. And that's range to like up to 20% historically. It's got like a floating price. So then you've got a floating price pretty for like that virgin Bitcoin. And then you have a you know the market price for the rest of it. And so then, you know, that raises the question like what's the real price.
00;23;59;05 - 00;24;04;19
Aaron
So it just creates like a lot of complication. I think markets tend to like like very simple, precise things.
00;24;04;22 - 00;24;07;09
Chris
I want my bitcoin graded like beef.
00;24;07;12 - 00;24;10;14
Aaron
You want great a bitcoin American bitcoin.
00;24;10;16 - 00;24;14;19
Chris
I want 80% chuck ground beef bitcoins.
00;24;14;21 - 00;24;18;15
Aaron
What about Kobe beef. Bitcoin Kobe beef. Bitcoin. It's massaged.
00;24;18;18 - 00;24;20;08
Chris
It's people saying do it.
00;24;20;10 - 00;24;27;03
Aaron
Be put thing to it. It comes with that Michael Saylor tweet every single time you you get one.
00;24;27;06 - 00;24;30;16
Chris
So Lord of mercy, by the way. Well what.
00;24;30;19 - 00;24;41;15
Aaron
Okay. But what happens if, if that is real? And then that's what, you know, drives a lot of demand for, for Bitcoin. Like maybe that's what pulls us out of this winter in some capacity to.
00;24;41;16 - 00;24;43;03
Pri
That would be the weirdest, weirdest.
00;24;43;03 - 00;25;00;07
Aaron
Super weird, right? Yeah. I mean it's like it's a really weird story. That's kind of why I think my mind was, spinning on it a little bit, but I'm assuming that's not the case, but whatever. I mean, it would be completely bizarre if that was the. You know, what ended this? This pretty brutal bear market.
00;25;00;10 - 00;25;02;21
Chris
It would be enough to wake Satoshi up.
00;25;02;23 - 00;25;04;23
Aaron
Well, the times weighed in. We now know we.
00;25;04;23 - 00;25;13;05
Pri
Never even talked about that story. We didn't talk about that story or the Sam Altman New Yorker story. Should we touch on it? At least the At added back one.
00;25;13;07 - 00;25;28;24
Chris
Did people keep naming all these journalists I've never heard of? But go ahead, I like I tend to think I'm like fairly media literate. And then I like cop on calls in you guys and you're just like, oh, I read this person Substack and that one's podcast. And I was like, I don't like these people. No, no, no, go ahead.
00;25;28;26 - 00;25;36;17
Pri
This is like, I don't even read the New York article. It was like the Ronan Farrow article on Sam Altman and The New Yorker. It kind of went viral. Dude, you definitely saw it on your timeline.
00;25;36;17 - 00;25;43;05
Chris
I okay, yes, I saw that. And like I didn't read it. But.
00;25;43;07 - 00;25;45;17
Chris
I don't I don't like, like any of this isn't known.
00;25;45;20 - 00;26;02;22
Pri
Also like, I mean to take away from what I've read again, I haven't read it. So me waiting on something I haven't read, but everything I read on the Art of Good Self is like they investigated him for 18 months and like, kind of came up short on finding anything that was like that. Yeah, compelling outside of like he's like a kind of a mean bastard.
00;26;02;22 - 00;26;14;07
Pri
Like an egomaniac. Like you didn't. Yeah. There's nothing there that was like, wow. And I think they tried to kind of fine find some pretty salacious stuff on him. And I don't think. I think it kind of.
00;26;14;10 - 00;26;32;14
Aaron
I think it's it's not like the internet has been trying for a while. Right. So. And I've, I even heard, you know, some folks it looked at like the code and just based on previous projects that Adams worked on, that if you did it from like that level, like almost like, you know, assessing somebody's handwriting, you would not come to that conclusion.
00;26;32;14 - 00;26;37;21
Aaron
So I think it's just one of these unsolved mysteries. I don't know if we'll ever get an answer.
00;26;37;24 - 00;26;47;01
Chris
You're conflating you're in different New York journalists, journalistic institutions coming up with milquetoast takes on different issues.
00;26;47;08 - 00;26;56;20
Pri
Those were those were okay. Yeah. Conclusion is both were milquetoast. So we don't really need to talk about it. But yeah, the times coming up with Adam back, everyone was just like, yawn.
00;26;56;23 - 00;27;15;22
Aaron
That was what was what was that there was that, that Netflix documentary too. They just like, are like finding people that are early that worked on this project early, and then everyone kind of like, gets their moment in the sun to be, you know, to get anointed. Satoshi. So was in my time. Yeah.
00;27;15;24 - 00;27;36;02
Chris
My understanding of this issue is there's like 10 to 15 people who are all on the same Usenet lists kind of talking to each other, who also potentially be Satoshi. Or maybe there was some combination of who could be Satoshi or this people who stood up and claimed to be Satoshi, who everyone else is like, nah, no fucking way you were Satoshi.
00;27;36;06 - 00;27;50;04
Aaron
Yeah, I think that that's just kind of it, you know? I don't know if that means it was worked on by multiple different people together. Could be that that that could be the case. Or, you know, maybe it's just, you know, there are some unsolved mysteries out there. There's just happens to be a great one.
00;27;50;05 - 00;27;52;08
Chris
I was about to say, the world needs a few.
00;27;52;11 - 00;27;59;25
Aaron
Yeah. I mean, and, you know, maybe this is a good one. That kind of like, adds to, like, the the legend, you know, a little bit, but we'll see.
00;27;59;27 - 00;28;07;09
Chris
Like, who is that guy in the Pacific Northwest who, jumped out of the plane full of money, and we never heard from him again.
00;28;07;11 - 00;28;09;04
Aaron
McAfee. That guy?
00;28;09;06 - 00;28;21;18
Chris
No, no, no, this was like, in the 70s or 80s. Hijacked it was a bank robber or hijacked a plane, got the ransom and then bailed out over, forest. Yeah. The name will come to me anyway.
00;28;21;18 - 00;28;24;16
Aaron
I have no clue. Chris. That one completely missed me.
00;28;24;18 - 00;28;26;23
Chris
This fucker has episodes on fire that.
00;28;26;28 - 00;28;31;16
Aaron
The milk toast takes of the day for way too measured. We're way too measured.
00;28;31;19 - 00;28;44;04
Chris
Here. We are, like, out, out supporting unsolved mysteries. Like, who the hell ones that in 26 I'll. I'll visit into even more like useless territory. So I'm reading a banger of a book right now. The Bronx is burning.
00;28;44;04 - 00;28;46;04
Aaron
Oh yeah. I heard that's a great book.
00;28;46;07 - 00;29;15;26
Chris
Yeah. No. It's fantastic. It's, New York City, 1977. Baseball, politics, and the battle for the soul of a city. And so a if you're kind of into, like, you know, deep new York, like decay, this is like, we're in ground zero, but I just like I'm in the middle of the part about the blackout. And they went through like there was this whole chapter on the view from the con ed, system operator control room.
00;29;16;01 - 00;29;43;05
Chris
And like, what led to the blackout and. Oh, my God, it's, like, absolutely riveting. So basically, there's this nuclear plant, Indian point three gets struck by lightning and it gets this surge. And it's things that flip off never flip back on. And then there's a couple other lightning strikes and the lines start getting overloaded. And the due to con ed in New York City, he's keeping an eye on this stuff.
00;29;43;09 - 00;30;09;24
Chris
But there's this whole set of there's two sets of switches like he has is remediation to one said, like dial down the voltage and the other is to load shed, which basically starts blackouts in the city. And he's just watching these things start failing and he refuses to hit either button. And then there's this other dude who's like the state system operator, like, and he's seeing all this, and he keeps calling the guy, like every five, ten minutes.
00;30;09;24 - 00;30;28;23
Chris
And he's like, dude, your line is way overloaded. You got to shed load. And the dude won't do it. And it goes on like this for like 35 minutes and he's waiting to, like, hear from his boss or like he just won't push the button like he's paralyzed about the idea of, like, taking neighborhoods offline and then like, as it's too late.
00;30;28;23 - 00;30;40;10
Chris
He finally started doing it, but apparently, like, he doesn't do it correctly or it's too late and then the whole city goes black, like absolutely wild, sort of stuff. And I was just thinking about.
00;30;40;12 - 00;30;44;02
Aaron
And having that job, that would be a difficult job to have.
00;30;44;05 - 00;30;56;15
Chris
I mean, it's got to be like, you know, remember in the 80s, all those like, nuclear Armageddon movies or like what the guys in the silo and one pulls the gun on the other one and it's like, turn the key. And he's like, okay, I turn the key. Yeah. I was like, one of those moments.
00;30;56;17 - 00;31;01;00
Aaron
Yeah, crazy. Are you done with it? Are you still working? Working your way through it?
00;31;01;02 - 00;31;07;00
Chris
Got like another third of it, but it's a banger of a book. It's really good. Strong recommendation.
00;31;07;03 - 00;31;12;19
Pri
Should I should we totally pivot away from what we're talking about and talk about how great the lasers are?
00;31;12;21 - 00;31;19;02
Chris
What? What can we actually be conclusive about something that their audience actually want to hear us come out in favor of a thing?
00;31;19;04 - 00;31;21;07
Pri
Good point. Yeah. Let's pick a more neutral topic.
00;31;21;09 - 00;31;28;13
Chris
No, no no. Three I got to give you credit for this one. You went. When did you go to dinosaurs?
00;31;28;16 - 00;31;30;18
Pri
Last August.
00;31;30;20 - 00;31;46;23
Chris
Okay. Yeah. So your trip planted the seed in my head, and I just went last week. We just got back last night, and. Holy shit. What? What a fantastic island. I mean, full set of islands. But we were both on, sound again.
00;31;46;25 - 00;31;50;25
Pri
Yeah, and they call it the Hawaii of Europe, which is hilarious.
00;31;50;27 - 00;31;58;29
Chris
I mean, you know, it's the whole idea of Europe if, like. I mean, when I was there, it was, you know, 50 to 60 degrees.
00;31;59;01 - 00;32;01;14
Aaron
Yeah. I was going to say, is it cold? It's cold. Right.
00;32;01;18 - 00;32;21;16
Chris
It can be cold. Yes. And you get a fair amount of rain. Not like consistent rain, like it's, neat, you know, it's volcanic island weather. And so what? The sky is above you changes eight times a day. We showed up, when we showed up on Monday, it was like, 50 and 30 mile an hour winds. We actually.
00;32;21;16 - 00;32;43;19
Chris
Yeah, there it was one of those planes where, like, you exit on the tarmac. Okay, so we were exiting at like 630 in the morning in an absolutely down park. And I was like, oh my God, this is so freaking cold. Like we're getting blown sideways. Like, what a welcome to this island. But no, like when I was 60 and sunny out, it was absolutely fantastic.
00;32;43;19 - 00;32;47;15
Chris
Like amazing place. I don't know what's it like in August? Pretty.
00;32;47;18 - 00;33;15;09
Pri
It definitely gets a little like dark and cold. Like definitely for jackets in the evening. It is kind of weird to think about, like living in just like that. The whole time. I felt like very alone. I mean, I felt that in Hawaii too, but do you ever, like, imagine what just living on an island feels like. Like it's one thing to live like in Cuba when you're, like, 90 minutes off the coast of Florida, but like one that's just like in the middle of the Atlantic or Pacific.
00;33;15;09 - 00;33;32;15
Pri
Like, I just feel like that's incredibly isolating. It must be like the weirdest feeling, like you look up at the sky and you're like, wow, it's just like me. And like the 40,000 other people on this island. Or do you think you they just have no idea. But anyways, I every time I I'm there similar feeling in Hawaii.
00;33;32;22 - 00;33;57;10
Pri
Iceland less so. But it's like an insane just place. Like the volcanoes, the hydrangeas everywhere. The cows everywhere, like the dairy products are unreal food. Surprisingly good. It also has a European vibe, like you see the cobblestone streets, like it's really quaint and clean and nice. The hospitality there is better. I also thought the service and like the people seemed really engaged.
00;33;57;12 - 00;34;10;02
Pri
On the terms, tourism said I was like, this place is great. Like I would definitely come back and it's 4.5 hours from New York. It's like easier to get to in California. So big fan, conclusively a big fan.
00;34;10;08 - 00;34;34;00
Chris
Yeah. That's I mean that's why I went was when you told me there were direct flights from JFK. I was like, okay, that's perfect because I made a point where like, hey, we've kind of been in everywhere, you know, and then be like, it's such a like a Hunger Games type of situation to book flights to the Caribbean during school vacation weeks out of New York.
00;34;34;03 - 00;34;59;26
Chris
And I'm just like, so over that, you know, it's like, gee, do I really want to like, get into paying $1,300, having a stopover in Atlanta? So I can get into, you know, some all inclusive in my Riviera? It was just like, I'm so dumb with that shit. And then, yeah, this was like, I don't know, like Sandpiper air only has some days or is in the middle of the Pacific.
00;34;59;29 - 00;35;29;01
Chris
And so I was like, sign me up. And then, yeah, once we got out there, it just the vibe, you know, like everything you can get the furthest point from anything is like 45 minutes. Yeah. And then like, just the amount of different climates and environments and like feeling, you know, like because it's a small island. But the diversity of just the geography and what you're experiencing is, is off the charts.
00;35;29;04 - 00;35;30;14
Chris
And then it wasn't that busy.
00;35;30;21 - 00;35;40;18
Pri
It wasn't it's not that touristy. It's like not overwhelming. It's not like you're seeing tourists everywhere. It's like pretty chill. And also the other tourists aren't American. They feel largely European.
00;35;40;20 - 00;35;44;06
Chris
And, they're all from New England and New York.
00;35;44;09 - 00;35;46;01
Pri
Really? Is this where,
00;35;46;03 - 00;35;52;07
Aaron
The tech titans are going to go when they need to Delta Force to get away from the the Duma mobs?
00;35;52;09 - 00;35;55;00
Pri
This is it isn't networks. It has potential for a network.
00;35;55;05 - 00;35;56;01
Aaron
You think it would be a network?
00;35;56;04 - 00;35;59;16
Pri
A pre I think it it has network state potential.
00;35;59;18 - 00;36;06;01
Aaron
What else is on that list? Wait I want to hear it. I want to hear this list. Who's on the network? State potential list.
00;36;06;03 - 00;36;28;18
Pri
That's great. I haven't really thought that much, but I it just came to me. I'm like Azores would be good network state potential isolated enough, but like, you know, close enough to both Europe and the US. Like it's not it's not totally isolated. What else has network state potential that isn't basically a network state like Dubai and Singapore based like in like Hong Kong or like Puerto Network State.
00;36;28;18 - 00;36;35;09
Pri
So I'm trying to think of just like, what do I like the Falkland Islands or something? Yeah. Or Easter Island.
00;36;35;15 - 00;36;41;05
Aaron
Sure. Why not? I don't even know how to, like, even answer this question.
00;36;41;07 - 00;36;43;03
Pri
I don't know why I think they need to be islands.
00;36;43;08 - 00;36;46;00
Aaron
Yeah. Do they need. Is that a prerequisite? It needs to be an I.
00;36;46;00 - 00;36;49;24
Pri
Know it just feels like easier to conquer and like protect.
00;36;49;26 - 00;37;06;27
Chris
Network states and conquer and shit. Like, what are they conquering with anything like that's kind of where the network state falls flat. Is it? I mean, the legitimacy of political action is having people who will kill for you. You know, like you don't really have any political force unless you have state violence.
00;37;07;00 - 00;37;11;26
Pri
Yeah. But like, what if you had a robot army to be like the military on your people.
00;37;11;28 - 00;37;16;21
Chris
That, like, I don't even want, like, a network sick. I just want to be left alone.
00;37;16;24 - 00;37;17;06
Pri
I agree with.
00;37;17;06 - 00;37;28;02
Chris
That. Like, let me just like, borrow away. I noticed somewhere it was in some kind of, you know, half chill regime who doesn't care what I'm up to. A two classically liberal here, more milquetoast.
00;37;28;02 - 00;37;30;12
Aaron
I know Chris in 2026.
00;37;30;14 - 00;37;33;12
Chris
You know, who wants to hear like someone who wants to be left alone?
00;37;33;17 - 00;37;37;00
Aaron
Nobody. It goes back to the moderation here.
00;37;37;02 - 00;38;02;15
Chris
Let's jump back to the Azores for a second. So in Ponta Delgada, they had some, really cool sort of this tiny hole in the wall bars that were very clearly like someone's passion project. And, you know, like you just like, go to the top down an alleyway, grab a couple cocktails. It'd be 11:00 at night. All the locals would be, like out in the street, chain smoking, drinking and chatting it up with each other.
00;38;02;18 - 00;38;24;21
Chris
It like I was like, oh, this reminds me of, like, when we were in Paris last summer. It reminds me of, like, when we're in Venice or like over on the other, like the local side of the canals. And it made me realize, like, all these things that, like, used to be in, like, the New York I love 20 years ago and kind of got tossed it out like they just didn't like full bloom over in Europe.
00;38;24;24 - 00;38;36;04
Chris
It's like Europe somehow, like, has passed this, this tipping point of, like, uncompetitive ness where, like, interesting things can happen because they don't cost an arm and a leg to pull off.
00;38;36;06 - 00;38;38;01
Pri
That is an interesting point.
00;38;38;03 - 00;38;57;11
Chris
I mean, I don't go out that much, but like, you know, I just feel like all those like little hole in the walls in the East Village where like, you know, like like Barraza down on Avenue C, way back in the day, like their whole thing was, were huge. Chelsea fans were massive coke heads. And we fucking loved Colombia.
00;38;57;14 - 00;39;07;04
Chris
Let's make a tiny little bar out of that. You know, never just be like some dudes from, like, London. And that was their whole shtick. And I just don't feel like New York has that anymore.
00;39;07;06 - 00;39;25;00
Pri
They like, do, but only in specific neighborhoods. But I, I, I like, get what you're saying though. It's like I also I mean, I have a friend, I have a friend, who lives in Portugal and she's European, but she's like, wants to move to New York because it's like not it's like kind of not competitive enough. And she's like, she almost use it as a negative.
00;39;25;00 - 00;39;50;12
Pri
She's like the most ambition anyone has in Portugal is to open up their own coffee shop. And like, that feels like not motivating enough for her to be around. So like, I wonder if that's like kind of a double edged sword or like because that's like the I mean, I'm, I'm definitely projecting a lot of from this comment, but I wonder if like, because that's like the highest level of that aspiration, it's like you see a lot more of that.
00;39;50;15 - 00;40;13;00
Chris
It's the grass is always greener, situation. I mean, when people fetishize, Japan, a lot of that becomes about like the level of craft and like the attention to detail on like, objects or like it's a force tool bar that curates the greatest whiskey collection on Earth, right? Things that just seem so economically like impossible in our reality.
00;40;13;00 - 00;40;28;26
Chris
Like where we like, fantasize and lust over them. And I imagine, like, yeah, if you're like, you know, a hardcore alpha apex predator type and, you know, you don't have a peer group or like, you don't have a pool to play in, it must be like, maddening for you.
00;40;28;28 - 00;41;03;17
Pri
Yeah. You know, what I do think about with Europe, though, is like, you know, how they kind of have like, you know, missed much of like the internet boom. And seemingly AI boon is like they're kind of like I like they've almost like leapfrogged all these different tech revolutions and like have gone to the endpoint of just post AGI, post singularity kind of world where people have leisure time and are just like opening up bars and chilling and focusing on like the human experience, like they've kind of somehow like, are they going to like, are they going to make it because they've basically.
00;41;03;19 - 00;41;04;18
Aaron
They're already they're.
00;41;04;20 - 00;41;10;11
Pri
30. They're they're like basically post singularity. Like no one there's talking about AI because like they don't care.
00;41;10;14 - 00;41;29;10
Aaron
But I wonder if that's kind of how this gets rolled out to move off the Azores. It sounds like a great place, which is like the workweeks will just get shorter, right? Like maybe, you know, in 2028 to 2030, like it's four days a week and then three days a week because I, you know, I was talking to somebody about this.
00;41;29;10 - 00;41;46;21
Aaron
And I do think that the natural state of how much people want to work, it's not zero, right? It probably is like something like 20 hours a week. I think you see that, like with retirees, like they want to keep their minds active. Understandably. I don't think it's like zero. And I wonder if it just tends or trends down to, to something like that.
00;41;46;21 - 00;42;05;14
Aaron
And I do think that you are going to be like monitoring some system even, or doing some sort of task with the system. If you're using AI, like, I don't think humans are going to be out of the loop completely, in all like aspects of society or services or jobs and even if there's like tons of robots will be the same thing.
00;42;05;14 - 00;42;23;08
Aaron
So I just wonder if, like you actually people just start working less. And maybe that opens up things, for them to do, whether that's their family or like hobbies or maybe they have time, Chris, to, like, open that bar in, you know, some distant land of some capacity. Like, I wonder if that's like the more optimistic, take care for all the stuff.
00;42;23;10 - 00;42;43;22
Chris
That's a fair point. Like when I had burnt out after being an operator and it was like, you know, took a little bit of time off and then wanted to get going again. Right? Like my involvement with, you know, the tribute Lab dogs. I basically had it wired up or like I had 20 hours a week of like, crypto related commitments.
00;42;43;22 - 00;43;02;15
Chris
And that was sort of like my hard cap because, like, you need some structure and you need things to, to do and you need to interact with people. You know, you need to feel like a greater sense of purpose. And where I was at that time in my life. Yeah, that like 20 hour chunk sort of fit the bill perfectly.
00;43;02;18 - 00;43;18;01
Aaron
And I think that's for most people. And I think that that's where like the Duma argue argument like fails, like I think they quickly rush to like UBI, but I don't know if people want that. Right. That feels like a little bit off to me. And, you know, maybe it is just that like, people will be into work less, which is great.
00;43;18;03 - 00;43;38;04
Chris
Well, I mean, here is here's the third, fourth order reckoning. That's also starting to pop up. Like there's a lot of municipal funding, sort of early warning signs starting to pop up again. I mean, you can like California on a massive scale, but like you can look at the northeast Massachusetts, you see the one on South Hadley today.
00;43;38;07 - 00;43;40;27
Aaron
Yeah. I don't remember the name of the town. Was that the one in Western Mass?
00;43;40;27 - 00;44;09;27
Chris
Yeah, I know South Hadley really well. It's an interesting place because it's wedged between Northampton and Amherst. Right in Northampton is just like literally the most leftist, like LGBTQ, friendly, you know, People's Republic out in the middle of nowhere. And then Amherst has got like UMass. It's got Amherst College. And then Hadley is just like a giant strip mall.
00;44;10;00 - 00;44;43;28
Chris
Every big box store, none of the surrounding towns will actually want, one, a zone four. And then, it's a bunch of like, yeah, residential slash. Like, there's there's a lot of farmland out there still. It's a gorgeous town. Minus like the route nine strip, but it's definitely going to be one of these things where, you know, as you start losing your, you know, employment on one side, and then you also have like this net asset value inflation.
00;44;43;28 - 00;45;02;22
Chris
And then, you know, the case of Hadley, they're talking about property tax. And so it's real estate. And then you have this aging, you know this big aging sort of demographics. Right. And so on the one hand you have like pensions as being a huge drain on these massive salaries. And then you have well, we have to run a school system.
00;45;02;22 - 00;45;22;25
Chris
We have to provide basic services and, you know, maybe a third to half our town, you know, want to want to make sure, like, kids can go to public school. And then the other, other half of the town is just like boomers and, you know, is not down for paying more in property taxes because, you know, in their heads, they're still living in the 1980s.
00;45;22;27 - 00;45;47;00
Chris
You know, so I think that becomes, yeah, a big issue, like we're going to have to start figuring out and maybe just cause I'm reading Bronx's book is burning right now, like I'm very much in that municipal crisis mode. But yeah, that's another thing to factor in is, okay, everyone only works 20 hours a week. How the hell do the South Hadley's of the world roll out a fire department and put kids through school?
00;45;47;02 - 00;46;10;17
Aaron
Yeah, I mean that. I feel like it's it's like you're going to see the laboratory of the States and like, their tax regimes, kind of like, tax or government governance regimes just kind of compete there. I feel like, you know, to this point before, almost like the issues of the Europe, like they're going to have to grapple with some of these issues to reign with this very generous, you know, safety net, which I think if we all had our choice, most people would say yes to.
00;46;10;17 - 00;46;32;28
Aaron
But, you know, there are like consequences to that in the long run, unfortunately. So, you know, even like going back to what we were saying about the I do terrorism. Like to me, like this still smacks of, of just like, you know, dealing with the challenges, of the massive baby boom population, the fact that they haven't, like, gotten off the stage yet in corporate America.
00;46;33;01 - 00;46;46;15
Aaron
And just like the the, like backlog that that's kind of created everywhere along with like issues just related to like housing and, you know, these things that I think most people really care about at their, at their core. So.
00;46;46;17 - 00;47;08;12
Chris
Right. I know our show doesn't want to hear more inconclusive. It's going to take some time takes. But like one I hope very very sincerely is 40 to 50 years from now, these problems are going to have worked themselves out. And part of that is going to be around demographics, right? Like we're in this very strange demographic position.
00;47;08;15 - 00;47;36;21
Chris
Our populations are going to continue to drop. And we have like these oversize burdens, you know, around health care funding, pension plan funding against like, decreasing tax base. But we're also I just think like there's, just sort of like a economic Darwinian perspective. Right? Like what's being signaled right now is like we there are too many humans in the world for the purposes of labor, right.
00;47;36;25 - 00;47;54;23
Chris
And like it's becoming harder and harder and more more and more expensive to have children. There's going to be a lot fewer kids like 30, 40 years from now. People are going to look up and go, oh my God, they were such like miserable bastards back in the 20s. And but it created this hellscape. And now there's a lot fewer of us.
00;47;54;23 - 00;48;13;14
Chris
And, well, we can actually like, afford. And we should promote being good to each other, like not engaging in this like brutal rat race. Like I think this eventually sorts itself out. But, we're going to have a few decades of, I think, real, real hard decisions to get there.
00;48;13;17 - 00;48;14;15
Aaron
I think that's fair.
00;48;14;19 - 00;48;20;18
Pri
Great. Glad I'm going to be, like, really old by the time that happens. Being a millennial is truly, truly.
00;48;20;22 - 00;48;21;28
Aaron
Oh my God, it's not.
00;48;21;28 - 00;48;30;24
Chris
Oh, here we go for you. Just getting your type regime sorted out. Yeah man. Like the nanobots will rebuild your body and you'll obviously you'll have a great second life.
00;48;30;26 - 00;48;33;00
Pri
Okay. Fair enough. I guess she's.
00;48;33;00 - 00;48;35;28
Aaron
Like, okay, yeah that's fine.
00;48;36;00 - 00;48;40;02
Chris
Just hang in there till 83 and then you'll you'll get a whole second shot at this.
00;48;40;04 - 00;49;09;14
Aaron
Yeah. You'll feel like you're 20 again. 32 though I do, I do wonder if that's like what actually say some of the AI conversation. If it is some like medical breakthroughs because I think everybody knows how important that is. And if if there is like a raft of them, like it becomes a lot less like abstract. I do wonder if if like that turns the corner on things like, let's say they start to cure some really gnarly diseases, I feel like people will be like, okay, that's great.
00;49;09;16 - 00;49;28;16
Aaron
I get the quality of people's health. Their well-being actually increases, like like physically, which I think is really like the like, what's the endpoint for? I don't know if it's like automating office work really. I think it is like stuff like that, you know, where people, you know, we can imagine a world where aging is not as big of a deal, right?
00;49;28;16 - 00;49;47;16
Aaron
Or your the quality of your life, like as you, as you go through this world, is it just a lot better and a lot cheaper too, right? Like better therapeutics, the side effects, like all that jazz, you know, whatever crises we read about, right? If it's mental health or, you know, some physical issue like that just will begin to soften over time.
00;49;47;16 - 00;50;08;11
Aaron
And maybe that's what causes people to kind of turn the corner. And then, yeah, like I think most people would choose to work less I don't know if that's the end point like we were describing before. Like, feels like I just is getting people to work more in a very American way. But, maybe it maybe that maybe that, reverses at some point, like, that feels like a pretty optimistic future to me.
00;50;08;13 - 00;50;09;18
Aaron
I'd sign up for that.
00;50;09;20 - 00;50;24;29
Chris
We we definitely need less, uncertainty, paranoia and economic, pressure. And we need more quality of life. And you start giving some quality of life. And you know what? Maybe people changed or tuned on I.
00;50;25;06 - 00;50;26;06
Aaron
Yeah, I mean, I.
00;50;26;08 - 00;50;27;29
Pri
Think that might be the right answer.
00;50;28;01 - 00;50;34;05
Aaron
And then, Chris, you can open up your, Mets bar in the Azores with, with a kick ass book club on the side.
00;50;34;05 - 00;50;34;15
Chris
Of God.
00;50;34;23 - 00;50;37;26
Pri
That's bar there in the A's are gonna be hilarious.
00;50;37;29 - 00;50;41;01
Aaron
With the best college hockey 24 over seven.
00;50;41;03 - 00;50;46;08
Chris
I, I, once again got blacked out of the college hockey national championship. Thanks.
00;50;46;11 - 00;50;47;25
Aaron
Thank you. Oh, no.
00;50;47;27 - 00;50;49;06
Chris
Yeah, yeah.
00;50;49;10 - 00;51;02;18
Aaron
ESPN's geofencing I literally I was at I like was for the, the channels and I saw that they now have professional kickball Chris. And it was on ESPN eight and I was like, Holy shit. Dodgeball is literally like real.
00;51;02;24 - 00;51;16;03
Chris
Oh, they run that as a joke every once in a while. Like, oh, is that channel Ocho? Yeah. You know, it's like an ESPN. Like, it's like the McRib of ESPN. They're like every, every once in a blue moon. I was like, oh, the, Yeah.
00;51;16;05 - 00;51;19;04
Aaron
Wild. Well, nice one, guys. We covered it all.
00;51;19;06 - 00;51;46;21
Pri
We covered it all. Okay, well, on that note, yeah. Welcome to Net Society. It's me, Erin and Chris today talking all things tech, culture, art and more. Just as a quick reminder that these thoughts and opinions are on and not of our employer. None of this is financial advice. Let's go.