[00:00:00] Announcer: This is the Build a Vibrant Culture Podcast, your source for the strategies, systems, and insights you need to turn your dreams into your destiny. Every week we dive into dynamic conversations as our host, Nicole Greer, interviews, leadership, and business experts. They're here to shed light on practical solutions to the challenges of personal and professional development. Now, here's your host, a professional speaker, coach, and consultant, Nicole Greer.
[00:00:29] Nicole: Welcome everybody to the Build a Vibrant Culture Podcast. My name is Nicole Greer and they call me the Vibrant Coach and I am here with another amazing guest. I have Lisa Even on the show. So let me tell you a little bit about her. Lisa knows that leadership isn't about metrics or perfect PowerPoint slides. These decks, so many decks we're putting together. It's about creating a culture where people show up- they want to come to work- can you imagine that? And they want to engage and they want to make an impact, a little dent in the universe. Right? And early on as a leader, she realized that doing all the right things wasn't enough and redefined her approach to focus on connection, shared ownership and creating a good ripple effect. And if you're on the YouTube, she's got the cutest little poster over her left shoulder. From her first job at a cafe serving farmers and truckers to leading multimillion dollar budgets in corporate America, Lisa has developed actionable strategies and practical frameworks that help leaders and teams foster presence, build connection, drive engagement and build team culture, what I like to call a vibrant culture.
[00:01:37] And through her podcast, _Have Good Ripple Effect_. Did you write that down? That's the next podcast you're going to listen to. Good Ripple Effect. And her book, look what she sent me in the mail. If you're on the YouTube, you see, I've got the book. She sent me two and I paid one forward to my good friends-- you know I love you HR folks out there-- to the SHRM, the last SHRM I spoke at. Her book is called _Joy Is My Job_. So like, pause, Did you know that joy was your job? Lisa inspires individuals and teams to realize that they happen to the world. It is not the other way around. Oh my gosh, she's talking about locus of control. We should talk about very fancy psychological things today. So she says, Hey come work with me. My work empowers leaders to create cultures where purpose, productivity and profit prevail together. So if you would like the three P's: purpose, productivity and profit and prevailing, you're at the right place. So welcome to the show, Lisa. I'm so glad you're here.
[00:02:29] Lisa Even: Yes. Hello. Thanks for having me.
[00:02:31] Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. So again, today this is going to be what we do. You know, we do little book reports.  Joy Is My Job. This is Lisa's book. So how does it feel to give birth to this little book right here? That is so awesome. Like this is a thing, right?
[00:02:44] Lisa Even: I know. It's kind of funny because when people say, Oh, you're an author, I have to look at them and think, I just wrote a lot of things down that I hope the world goes out and does.
[00:02:53] Nicole: Right!
[00:02:53] Lisa Even: And so I wouldn't consider myself this amazing writer per se, but I had a really important idea I wanted to share.
[00:03:00] Nicole: Yeah, that's so good. Hey, listen, if you get the book right in the beginning, not only do you buy the book, but then she gives you a free gift, right? And if you want to right now, you can go to www.lisaeven L-I-S-A-E-V-E-N.com/freejoy. How many of y'all would like some free joy? All right. So don't miss that right there in the book and we've also given it to you right here. So, first of all, in your book you say that joy comes from hard stuff. What do you mean when you say joy comes from hard stuff? Talk about that for a minute.
[00:03:33] Lisa Even: Well, at least in my case, it started with a couple of different things. I had a few family members pass away really young. And I think that kind of kicks me in gear and says, Oh, life is really short. And then, you know, you grow up and you think, okay, now I've got jobs and responsibilities and you throw in a house fire due to lightning. We had lightning strike our home at 3am and I remember looking at the burned pile of things thinking, Oh, like what now? And it really kind of kickstarted this journey to joy where my husband and I looked at each other and said, I think joy is not coming our way, we have to create it ourselves. If you wait for joy to find you, you're going to wait forever. So that's what we've been on a mission to do. And it's spilled over from personal life into work life and the culture of my team.
[00:04:23] Nicole: Yeah, that's so fantastic. I don't know who passed away in your life but I relate. My mom passed away when I was just really itty bitty and then I had these five aunts that I was passed around to, you know? And somebody could look at that and be like, what was that like? And I'd say chaotic! But like, I never met a stranger. I got a lot of resilience, you know? There's always a lesson to learn in there that you can turn around and share with the whole world so that they don't have to, they don't have to learn the hard way.
[00:04:51] All right. So I agree. We happen to the world. The world doesn't happen to us. We stand in choice. I love that. And I think that choice is really the first part of your book, which is where you say joy is a mindset. Like, can I just pick joy? Can I just like right now, rest of the day, joy, can I pick that? Is that what you're telling me? I think it's a fantastic idea.
[00:05:10] Lisa Even: No, and I always have to give a little bit of a caveat of no, I'm not saying sunshine and rainbows. What I'm saying is, is yeah, it's, I wish, right. My son used to say, mom, it's not sunshine and rainbows everywhere. And I would laugh at him and I would say. It's not. And actually that's why we need joy. You know, like you need something to look back on and look forward to. And so my mind is always going to either, one: crappy to happy, which is a principle I talk about in the book. You're going to do lots of unglamorous things. You have lots of unglamorous things happening to you, but it's your response to like, how do we make this a little bit happy? Right? Before, during, or after. And then I think the other, the second part to that is truly if you're not choosing to look for it, you're probably looking for something else, and it's probably going to find you in a way that, you know, whether that's complaining on your team or, something different, you need to really be focused on how do I happen to this moment versus letting it happen to me.
[00:06:10] Nicole: Yeah. And the thing is, people have said this for years, look for the silver lining. I can get behind that.
[00:06:17] Lisa Even: Yeah
[00:06:17] Nicole: You know, it is raining on my parade or my house just burnt down or whatever just happened, but huh, well, we get a new house.
[00:06:25] Lisa Even: Yeah.
[00:06:25] Nicole: I think it's important. I think it's important. I agree with you. Joy is a choice. Now what in your mind is the difference between joy and happiness? Is there like distinctions between my levels of things?
[00:06:36] Lisa Even: Yeah. And I think also that's a little bit like in the eye of the beholder. So my lens to it is truly joy is something that makes you feel more alive. Something that just kind of for a hot moment just makes you go, huh, like a little surprise and delight. And I think that, you know, it doesn't have to be big. I have a friend who stands at his coffee maker every morning and literally watches his coffee in the Keurig brew.
[00:07:03] Nicole: Right, dripping out into his favorite cup
[00:07:06] Lisa Even: Yes. And he's like, and then the smell, like overwhelms me and that's his joy. And it doesn't have to be something where, you're like, we're going on this big vacation and that's going to bring me joy once a year. Actually joy, look for it in the mundane. It's probably hiding right in front of you. You just have to be focused on, okay, where are you? What can we do here? And we're constantly doing family nights or things at home to make ourselves have a little bit more joy. And I think the same holds true with an engagement plan on a team. I'm often looking for ways to incorporate something fun or something different so that their brains get a little bit of pattern, right? Like normal, normal, normal. Oh. Well, that made me feel awake. Okay.
[00:07:50] Nicole: Yeah. Yeah. And, I think that this is a very underrated skill for leaders to put a little joy in their team's day. I think sometimes well, we'll order pizza for everybody. Well, if you do that every time, then they're spoiled and they're like, can we have something other than pizza, you know? So there's a bit of creativity too, I think, in helping people see the joy. And I think too, in in people's work I just think about the customers. A lot of times the people that we work with, they never see how our work impacts the customer. I'm forever telling leaders, go get customer stories that are awesome and bring them back so people can see how their work connects with the joy of others.
[00:08:33] Lisa Even: Yeah. Well, you know, we measure joy, like a bank account, like money in money out. And, uh, yeah. And one of the things that you just said, actually, for those of you who are looking, okay, I brought my coffee to this morning's
[00:08:44] Nicole: Oh, yes. Me too. Let's all have a sip of coffee. Want to, everybody?
[00:08:48] Lisa Even: Yes. And normally I drink it out of this, which is a black travel mug, but this morning I'm drinking it out of some china. And can I tell you like a 20 second quick story about last night?
[00:08:57] Nicole: I want a 20 second or longer story about last night.
[00:09:01] Lisa Even: Okay, great. I figured you would. Okay. Dropping my daughter off at gymnastics. I think to myself, I got to run to Costco. I got to run to Target. So I get to Costco and I'm pushing my cart around and I find this large spoon set because Costco knows what you need before you need it.
[00:09:17] Nicole: That's true. Can everybody say that's true?
[00:09:21] Lisa Even: It's true for real. And so, you know, it's like five large, like spoons basically in a cardboard thing. And I'm driving my cart through the store and I go through the clothes area and this older woman who's working at Costco turns to me and says what a great spoon set. And, and I was like. Right? And it's only $9. Like it was originally 20, it was down to nine. I was just like happy on all fronts. And she looks at me and she goes, you know, my husband and I used to entertain a lot. And I said, me too. My husband and I entertain. She goes, my husband passed away a couple of years ago and I've had to downsize since then. And I was like, that's really sad. And she's like, I know it's been really hard because I gave away a lot of really good spoons like that. And I was like, wow. She goes, but you know, the one thing that I do every day and I was like, I want to know what you do every day. And she goes, I realized after he passed away-- we were married for 56 years-- that I might have to, I know I was like, I might have to give away a lot of things, but I'm not giving away our good china. And she says that she eats off her good china every day. So literally you can guarantee at 7am this morning, I was down in the basement looking for my set of china that we never use. So I'm drinking coffee, making joy at my job, out of this china set that I got for my wedding 15 years ago. And I'd just like to give a little shout out to Karen. So I went up to the front and I was checking out and there was a manager next to me. I said, you know, Karen is fabulous. Over in the clothes area. And she goes, Karen is fabulous. And I said, I know it probably won't do a lot, but please, please, please pass along my thank you. And she goes, okay, could you do me a favor? There is a little suggestion box over there. Could you write, even if you just write, we love Karen and her name, she will get a certificate and we'll announce it in our morning meeting.
[00:11:06] So you can darn well better believe I went over there just like you were describing. Cause I wanted to give her some proof that she made a difference. So just along those lines that you said we're making joy at our job this morning via coffee in fine china.
[00:11:21] Nicole: That's right. That's right. I gotta tell you, I drink coffee out of my fine china too. I think this is so bizarre. And here's the thing, here's the thing. You said it, joy is a mindset. And words really matter to people. So if somebody's like mindset or like it's an attitude. You know, and I do tons of training, just like you Lisa, and so I'll be in a room and we'll talk about the fact that people are on a feeling scale. And I'm like, the leader's job is to push people up the feeling scale, because when people feel good, they do good work. When people feel bad, they do not so great work or bad work, in fact. And so you got to push people up. And I think, when we're talking to leaders, they're like, They should be self motivated. Well, okay, okay, yes, okay. But sometimes we're not, you know, some of the times you need a little push up the scale, and so, it's a big deal what we're talking about. And don't forget everybody, we're talking about  Joy Is My Job. Hello leaders.  Joy Is My Job by Lisa Even. All right. So I love your little story.
[00:12:18] Okay. So let's do this. You make a case for joy. Because some people are like, is this whole thing going to be about joy? And the answer is yes. Stay tuned. We're talking about joy. So you said we all need reinforcements when life is tough. That's your first point when you talk about making a case for joy. So will you talk about that for a hot second? Why we all need reinforcements?
[00:12:39] Lisa Even: Yeah, I think the biggest thing that I often will say to people especially those on a team is that you can be more than one thing at once, right? Like you can be busy and stressed and tired and poor and have nothing -- and also find joy. And I remember, I joined a team where I was leading about five locations, right? And one of the locations, I was noticing this odd thing. I worked in neurosciences. So you're coming to us with probably something that's not great. You're not leaving here the same as you came in, and we're telling you really bad news hour in and hour out, right? Like you are not here because you just want to be. And I was noticing we would go in with our patients. We would be amazing. We would hug and love on them and cry with them. And then we would walk out of the room and we would treat each other like crap. Like I have been in there for 30 minutes with that patient. Why didn't you get this done? Right? Like they would scold each other. And as a leader, I'm watching this cause I want to see like, Oh is this our normal? Is this what we do? And so I watched it for a few weeks. And then in my one on ones, I often like to ask kind of unique questions. And I was like, are we too busy to be friendly?
[00:13:52] Nicole: Oh, everybody write that down.
[00:13:54] Lisa Even: Yeah. And the tone matters, right? I can't be like, are we too busy to be friendly? You know, it's more just like, almost like, you know, just as if it was in the wind... Are we too busy to be friendly? I asked 20 people and I got eight yeses. And here's the key, I did
[00:14:09] Nicole: Don't miss that everybody.
[00:14:11] Lisa Even: I did not react because you don't want to throw it back at them. I was just like, wow, that's so interesting. Too busy to be friendly. Uh huh. And sad. And so it took a couple of weeks cause we don't always have to do everything at once. And I started to gather some stats and I went back to the team in our smaller groups and I was like, Hey, what if we could be busy and friendly? What if we could be two things at once? And I think joy along the same lines is-- my grandma used to say, you're never going to be skinnier, smarter or prettier than you are today, so you might as well do it now. And I was always laughing because I'm like, you're so right. Like today is the day.
[00:14:45] Nicole: Seize the day!
[00:14:45] Lisa Even: Because we're, we're just, yeah, we're just getting older. So I think that, to your point, the case for joy is that you will always be more than one thing at once. And really, you'd have to choose it. And once you start choosing it, you'd be shocked at the fun that you will have. It's like taking life seriously and not seriously all at once.
[00:15:03] Nicole: That's right, that's right, and it sounds like you were doing very important supportive work for people. So I want to say that before I say this next thing. But a lot of times I'll go places and they're making a widget of some sort, like in a production thing. yeah, and it's important to make the widgets because people need cabinets and they need they need hinges for their cabinets and they need cooling systems and all the different, I'm just rattling off, welding, things welded, you know, all the customers that I'm thinking of popping in my head. But, like, why are we so uptight? I mean, we're just welding things. We've got fire. We've got protective equipment. We got PPE. We got a break room. I mean, it's great, just weld, be happy. So I agree with you. It is a total choice. All right. Now, the next thing she says in her case for joy is there are no do overs. What do you mean by a do over? Is that back to what grandma said?
[00:16:03] Lisa Even: Yeah
[00:16:03] Nicole: First of all, what's your grandma's name?
[00:16:06] Lisa Even: Her name is Alice.
[00:16:07] Nicole: Don't you love a gal named Alice? Mine was Myrtle. I think Alice and Myrtle were probably cut from the same cloth. Anyway, all right. So what, there are no do overs. What are you thinking there?
[00:16:17] Lisa Even: You know, I think that is a reminder, almost like something I would tuck in my pocket, to be like, you know, you really only get one shot at each moment, so why let any moment pass that isn't worth having? And it's not necessarily a lecturing thing, but it's more just like, oh, I only get this day once. So for me, I often will set a timer of okay, I'm going to be cranky for this long. And I literally set the timer. And then when the timer goes off, I look at it and I think, well, I can either choose that or I can choose something else. Let's go. And I think that that has kind of been a way for me to hold myself accountable. It's also a great tool for teams to be able to say Hey, you don't like this PTO policy decision or what have you... set a timer. You could have that feeling. Have that feeling for as long as you think that you should. If it gets too long, I'll probably say something, but have that feeling. And then when that timer goes off, philosophically or real life, I want to talk. Because you get a choice now, like you said, circle of control, what do you want to do with it? And I think that that perspective, oftentimes, again, you have to place it in the right moment and teach it in the right moment and use it in the right moment. But it certainly makes the day a lot easier of like, well, we only get right now. So what am I going to do with it?
[00:17:35] Nicole: Yeah, and I love what you're saying, because you said something a little bit earlier, and I thought, oh, I'll say something about that, and then it, your story was great, and I got lost, but, but I'm going to circle, it just came back to me, because what you're talking about you said is this normal? Do we always act like this? You know what I mean? Like we're in here loving on people and then we're mean when we come out of the room or whatever. So, I went to this wonderful place called Queens University and I got this Organizational Development, little degree thing, uh, uh, master's degree. And it was one of the best experience I ever had. If you're listening to this and you don't have your master's degree, here's what I want to say about that. It was easier than the undergrad in my opinion. And they treat you like an adult and you can go very slow. And so much of the stuff I learned, I could apply immediately to my work, like it was super helpful. I'm still not using geometry in my work but I had to take, all these math classes and whatever.
[00:18:28] Anyway so they taught me this thing called group norms, and that if you don't, be intentional about developing group norms, you will have unintentional group norms. And that's what Lisa's talking about right now. You could have like people who get the email from HR and complain, Oh my gosh, the PTO, cranky, cranky, like she said, crappy, crappy.
[00:18:51] And then the leader doesn't say, I'm going to let you be cranky for 10 minutes. Go in your office, close the door, pull the blinds, and then come out and we'll talk about the PTO policy or whatever, you know. But like, you can't let, or you will have a culture that is cranky, crappy, and complaining.
[00:19:06] Lisa Even: You know, I do a keynote around team culture and actually I talk about attitudes turn into norms, which turn into beliefs. And so I always say we're gonna analyze our culture right now. I want you to imagine that you have a group of people that you work with and they're right here. And then I ask them, I'm like, how are they doing? Like, how are they doing? Are they happy? Are they sad? Are they mad? Are they complacent? Are they complaining? Right? And then I kind of say, okay, now let's think about what they do every day. What is normal for you? And I'll give them some examples. And one of them is maybe we walk out of the meeting and we say, well, that could have been an email. I don't know why we're meeting. Right? If that's the norm, if that's the usual for you, that is your culture. And then I'll say, okay, but what about your beliefs? Like those deeply held things? Maybe a belief is well, it's always like that around here. Yeah, printer is always broken. Right? If they start to believe it, that's your culture. And so I love the examples that you were giving, because it truly is, attitudes turn into norms, which turn into beliefs. And we actually do that in our family as well as my team, if there's a norm that pops up in our family where I'm like, Oh, my kids are having too much tech time. You know, I have to notice that and then be like, okay, well, what do I want to do about it? And how am I going to get people to do different things without going to them and being like, you can't do that. You know, like there are so many moments that you have to shift the norm.
[00:20:24] Nicole: That's right. That's right. Yeah. And the leader has to have the inspiration on the inside of them, which I think underneath inspiration is like the joy to say, I can come up with something.
[00:20:33] Lisa Even: The finesse. It's like building the finesse muscle of like, how can I finesse this a bit.
[00:20:38] Nicole: Right. Right. Right. And I don't know if you hear this, Lisa, but I hear this all the time. It's like, these young people. And I'm like, you used to be young and not know anything either. I mean like people don't know until you teach them. They don't know until you show them. They don't know until you inspire them. So the leader has to get busy. Absolutely. All right. So the third one in here, the case for joy is joy is contagious and I love that and I think it's so true. Wonderful.
[00:21:03] Lisa Even: I, you know, I, I think contagiousness-- I always say, like with a grain of salt, right? You're not going to go to someone who's having the worst day of their lives and be like, good job, Sally. You know what I mean? But in general, I often say the energy that you bring into the room, we bring the weather, right? Have you ever
[00:21:19] Nicole: Oh, yeah. Stephen Covey. Yes.
[00:21:21] Lisa Even: Oh, yes. If you walk into a room and you're cranky, that spreads. And so as a leader, I often think am I checking my emotion first? And if they're having an emotion, I don't have to have that same one. And I don't have to go to the extreme other one either. If they're angry, I'm not just like, yay team. But I just really think that being in charge of your energy and how you're showing up matters. And so if you can be a little bit contagious or at least encourage, in the moment of: this is hard... and we can also have a little joy. If you start to build people's thought process to that, it becomes a habit. And that was the habit that I was looking to create. The norm was okay, so what do we want to do about it? I worked for an organization of 70,000 people. There were darn well things that we didn't get to pick every day because every time a rule came out, it was for 70,000 people, but it was our response to it that really made a difference and made people engaged in a way of I can either do something or I can let it go. I have a choice.
[00:22:25] Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. This is the second time you've kind of said that. And I love that. It's the stepping back or stopping or pausing or something right there for a moment. So we would call that, in the world of emotional intelligence, like awareness, like I'm getting awareness around Oh, I have a choice right here.
[00:22:42] And there's a book, everybody-- I think I just talked about it a couple of podcasts back, but here it is again. I'm going to share this. Everybody needs to read Man's Search for Meaning. Write this down, people. Man's Search for Meaning by Victor Frankl. He's got a little phrase in there that he says there's a moment between what we, I'm not getting it right, but like between what we receive and how we react. He's like, there's this little teeny tiny moment. And so stop in your moment for a hot second before you react. And here's the other thing, Lisa, what do you think about this? I tell leaders all the time. If you're in a bad mood, you just gave permission to everybody else to have moods.
[00:23:20] Lisa Even: A hundred percent. And I think that there's almost like an accordion, right? If I'm going to be really far out with the accordion, my arms are really wide and I'm really feeling that emotion big. Where do I need to be doing that? Right? I don't need to be doing that in our team meeting or in my pod of people that I work with. There are times where you will have a mood. And so be intentional of where that mood occurs. If you walk out of the meeting and you're like, I'm furious, I'm like, that's an okay emotion to have. Again, hopefully you're not going to have it for long, but where does that need to show up? And I think that a lot of times leaders either kind of shut it down completely, or, they're just like, we don't have it. I'm like, no, no, you will, you will have those moods, but where do they show up, where do they happen? And then how do you quickly shift your perspective to be like, okay, I'm not loving this. Yesterday I was cranky, today I'm back at it. And so I think, yeah, there, there's a space and a place. And knowing that what you put out there will probably be contagious. And sometimes I'm like, even to my spouse, I'm cranky right now. I don't want to, I can't do that because I'm going to make you cranky. I just need a moment by myself. And I remember when my kids were little, I would sit in my car for a minute and that's where those moods would occur. Like my kids are driving me bonkers. I just need to sit in my car for two minutes and then I'm like, Hey I'm back. Here I am.
[00:24:40] Nicole: That's right. That's right. So let's figure out whose toy is that. Let's see.
[00:24:45] Lisa Even: Yeah. Exactly. Right.
[00:24:47] Nicole: Right. And, it doesn't really change. But, you know, there's still territory and, this is my department and all that stuff is at work. Right. Yeah. Okay. All right.
[00:24:57] Announcer: Are you ready to build your vibrant culture? Bring Nicole Greer to speak to your leadership team, conference, or organization to help them with their strategies, systems, and smarts to increase clarity, accountability, energy, and results, your organization will get lit from within. Email her at Nicole at vibrant culture. com and be sure to check out Nicole's TEDx talk at vibrant culture.com.
[00:25:23] Nicole: Okay. So we're going through the case for joy. Why you should pick joy, why you should actually be like, I'm going to strategically insert joy in my day and in my group norms and my team and my company. You say I'm a better human when... fill in the blank. I love this. This is like an exercise. I'm going to say, Lisa taught me to do this with people. When are you a better human? Right? So talk about that little fill in the blank thing. I love it.
[00:25:50] Lisa Even: Yeah. Well, I think oftentimes our mind quickly goes to all the things that we have going on or all the things we need to get done, which is great, but that doesn't actually tell me when you're a better human, right? Like when I have a little bit of laughter, when I have a little bit of enjoyment, I'm actually a better mom, a better leader, a better team member. And so if you think that joy isn't a productivity or even a profitability strategy, it actually is. Right? So I am always carving out time and space and places for when can I have five minutes here, 10 minutes here of that, because I know I'll turn around and be more productive 10 minutes later.
[00:26:32] And I think burnout's a real thing. And I'm like, you're probably burnt out because you're not having enough joy. And if you had a little joy in the bank, you could take some money out and then you'd actually be productive. And so sometimes it's a matter of that. And again, I say that lightly with, there are a lot of things going on and you can find joy. You can still grab it out and it's your personal preference on what that looks like, whether it's football or comedy or taking a bath, reading a book. You can find joy and then you'd be shocked at how much of a better human you are after.
[00:27:07] Nicole: That's right. That's right. And this is not just talk. It's also scientific, right? If you make me laugh, I have all sorts of good neuropeptides going through my body. It's in your bloodstream. It goes all the way around and like you literally get physically happy, you know? I mean, it's, it's like the best drug in the world is to be happy and to find joy. So, I think it's really important to understand all that.
[00:27:29] All right. On page 27, you have a great, great quote and I don't want everybody to miss it because we've made the case for joy but now we want to think about creating a joy mindset or attitude and you say it's impossible to curate joy 24/7. So don't miss this. Lisa's not saying be some Pollyanna. Go look that up. Go look that up. That's a reference to a Walt Disney movie from a long time ago. Anyway, so it's impossible to curate joy 24/7, but it's possible to believe that joy can happen at any time. That you could insert it, produce it, try to affect it.
[00:28:07] Lisa Even: Yeah. Hence my trip to Costco. You know, I was like, kind of in mom mode of let's get this done, we have one hour. And then all of a sudden Karen's like making my night. I really do think that whether you're at the coffee shop or the gas station or in between meetings, I often say we have a lot of time in between that you could probably be having some joy and not really knowing it. And so if you can be ready for it-- I give a lot of personal examples, but I think they tend to be the professional. We took our kids to a movie once. They were little, rolling around on the floor, throwing popcorn, being loud. And I'm thinking, Oh my gosh, we got to get out of here. This is distracting to everyone around us. So we leave early. We get to the parking lot and I look at my husband and -- we actually have a joy calendar, and so we track our joy, do we have enough? And I was like, well, we can't count this as joy. This was not joyful. And he looks at me, our kids behind me are like running in circles, like laughing their faces off, having the best time. And he looks over, he goes, mission accomplished, no? And I was like, oh, they are having joy. Sometimes joy looks a little bit messy. It didn't come in the form of what you wanted it to, but it can happen at any moment. So I always say be ready and on the lookout for that. And you'll be surprised at those Costco moments that come your way.
[00:29:24] Nicole: That's right. That's right. And I love the fact that you're saying like you have to look for it. There has to be a seeking or a desire for it, maybe? Yeah.
[00:29:37] Lisa Even: Yeah. I always say one of the first orders of business is desire. Desire, permission, and belief. Those are like the three keys to it. I do a lot of large keynotes so I'm on stage, right, I don't get to interact as much. And then I'll do workshops a lot of times directly following. And I had a woman raise her hand and say, I have enough joy, thank you. And I, it was my favorite moment ever. I literally with the microphone was like, this lady does not know who she met. Right. And I walk over to her and I was like tell me about that. And she goes, well, I have enough of it. I do a lot of fun things. And I said to her, I said, number one, you're going to be the most popular person at your table because they're all going to want some joy ideas for their life and their work. And I smiled and I think she knew I was like, are you, do you? But I also said, this is a great point. If you don't want more joy, you don't have to have it. You don't. Desire is something that you seek, right? And if you don't have it or want it, great! But there might come a time where you turn around and say I'll have what she's having. And then you'll be like, okay, I think I want it. And the second order of business is really permission, right? Oftentimes we're like, well, after, Q2, after this project, after I get my kids, you
[00:30:47] Nicole: Right, when I get this paper done, when I get my PowerPoint deck done.
[00:30:51] Lisa Even: Yes. And I'm like, okay, give yourself permission now. Right? Cause you only live once. And then the other thing is really belief that it can be true. Like I really had to do a lot of working with my team to be like, we can be busy and friendly. That could be something that we shift from, an attitude to a norm, to a belief and the same holds true with joy. Like it does take a little work of, okay I had some, I can, I could have some more. Yeah. Yeah. You could.
[00:31:19] Nicole: Yeah, yeah. And I'm sitting here, it's come in my mind a couple times, but I'm going to throw it out there. I want to hear what you have to say about it. But I also think maybe a sister, a cousin of joy is this thing called gratitude. What, what are your thoughts on gratitude? People are like, oh my gosh, these two aren't going to start talking about a gratitude journal, are they? And the answer is well, I do think it's a good idea. You should have one in your notebook or in your phone somewhere. But anyway, what do you think about gratitude?
[00:31:47] Lisa Even: I think they are close cousins. I think also it's kind of like a muscle that you have to work. So if you're going to your team and thinking, they're going to just magically notice gratitude when maybe it's never been a thing... Probably not, but I also like to point things out just so people notice, right? For my team, a lot of times I'm like, one of the things I'm really grateful for is... x. And then they're like, really? And I'm like, yeah, that's a really important thing. For example, we had an incident, I call it an incident, but it was like, I was just joining my team. Yeah, I show up at this location. There's a team member who's worked there for 35 years, right? I've been there a week. She's worked there for 35 years. And I walk in the break room and I walk in on her giving this rousing speech to two other team members. Her back is to me, so she doesn't know I'm there. And she was giving a rousing speech about how the ice machine-- because in healthcare, ice machines are God-- that it has gone away. And I can clearly see on the counter, the ice machine is gone. And she's giving a speech about how this is symbolic for the fact that leadership does not care about us. And they are making budget cuts left and right. And I have been here for 35 years and I have seen it all. And, I'm like, again, I don't have to have the same emotion as her. So I'm just getting curious. Yeah, I want to hear about this ice machine. What do we got? Right? And she's giving a rousing speech and I'm thinking, jeez, I'm kind of getting roused up about this ice machine!
[00:33:09] Nicole: We need a dang ice machine!
[00:33:11] Lisa Even: Yeah. And the two people that are standing there giving her the eye, like Lisa's right there. Like she is right there and
[00:33:18] Nicole: by her amygdala and she's giving her speech.
[00:33:21] Lisa Even: She is proud and ready. And she turns to me and she goes, Oh, hi. And I said, okay, I'm new here. Finish your story about the ice machine. I really do want to know. So she finishes and I said, well, I'm new, so I don't know where the ice machine went, but let me find out. And instead of being angry, I got curious. So I went to the front desk where my administrative assistant sat, and I said, Angela, where's the ice machine? She goes, Oh, it's getting cleaned. It'll be back tomorrow. And a little part of me was like, whew, okay. Bullet dodged. But it goes to show that you truly, truly, truly sometimes are like, this is a sign. This is what I believe. And I went back to her and I said, Hey, good news. The ice machine will be back. We hung a sign and I, from then on was like, we are so grateful for this ice machine. And literally it kind of became a running joke because every few months I'm like, gosh, I'm so glad we have an ice machine.
[00:34:16] But it was a moment where it could have gone really bad. I could have damaged some relationships. I knew that her intent was good. She wanted leadership to do better. She wanted the organization she worked for to be good. It wasn't her belief in that moment, but I was there to help shift that, and then we turned it into a bit of like funny gratitude along the way.
[00:34:35] So you can be grateful for like very simple things like flowers and candy and things like that. Or you could be thankful for the ice machine because you know that it's super important.
[00:34:45] Nicole: Who has an ice machine in their house? What would you do without your ice machine? You'd be up a creek. And if you've traveled to Europe-- I really love my ice machine. You know. It is a whole thing. It is a whole thing. Yeah. Oh my gosh. It's almost the top of the time frame that we have and I'm just having the best time hanging out with you. You've got in here, though, this one thing. I want to talk about barriers to joy because I think people listening to this might be like, okay ladies, you've made the case, right? It's a choice. I get it. But I have stuff in my way. There are barriers in my way. And you actually have a little acronym. And I love an acronym. So, it's JOY. Justification. This is a barrier. Everybody write this down. Justification. It's a barrier to joy. The things we tell ourselves on why we cannot have more joy. Okay, then, O, obstacles, the permission and perspective we need to overcome. And then Your turn. List out the ideas on your joy calendar and you can get the joy calendar. That's the free download. So, help people kind of think about how could I, I'm a pessimist, how could I ever be a joy girl or a joy guy?
[00:35:49] Lisa Even: Yeah, well, I come from healthcare and we measure everything, right? So I love data, right? And so I kind of track it back from that. I want proof in the pudding. And so I often will say, what are you catching yourself saying? Well, I can't do that because whether it's sleep or money, maybe it's even emails, you're like, I have too many emails, I cannot stop and take 10 minutes to go on a walk. And I'm like, yeah, that's the justification. That's the story that you're telling yourself. So first, understand that. And then I think the obstacle oftentimes is we think that it has to be something grand and it has to be all or nothing. And I'm like no, I want 10 minutes, two times a week, right, to really find that joy. So I give seven or eight barriers in the book and then I give some ideas around it. So if you say my barrier is: by the end of the day, I am too tired or I'm too tired at work. I'm like, okay, well you're awake all those hours. So don't like add it on, slip it in between. And things like money, I often will say my brain gets awfully creative when I don't have money to spend. And I actually started a social committee in my work world. And I literally, from my own pocket, gave them 20 bucks each month. And I said, what can you do for $20? And I said, this is an experiment that we are going to run because they're like, well, we can't do fun engagement things. We don't have all the money. And I was like, I'll give you $20. I would be interested to see what you can do with $20. And they were pretty amazing. And actually one of them went and got something donated. She's like, I went somewhere and said we're doing a social committee and I got a donation for our joy. And I was like, wow, that's pretty darn amazing. And she goes, and it was a really nice donation. So I always say there's a way. You just have to get a little bit creative. And if not, if you're like, creativity is actually my barrier. I always say look online. There are some pretty amazing things that you don't have to come up with all the ideas yourself. You just have to say, I don't actually have to be the creative one. I can let the internet or someone on my team do that role. 'Cause I had one person, she was truly like an inspiration when it came to party planning and things. And I'm like, I like to go to a party. I just don't want to plan the party. She's like, all right, I'm on it. I'm like, perfect.
[00:38:06] Nicole: And off she goes to the Costco to have another joy experience. That's right. That's fantastic. All right. If you go on page 51 in her book, she's got a list of joy ideas. The other thing I love about your book is like how to do this in your home. Like you're talking a lot about your family, you've talked a lot about your family on here, and I think that our family of origin really informs how you handle joy and happiness, you know. So if you come from a home where mama was sad and daddy was mad, you know, that's gonna be something you're gonna have to rewire, you know in your brain cells. And so don't miss it everybody, it's  Joy Is My Job-- at home, in your marriage and definitely at work. I love it. Okay. All right. So we got about halfway through this thing but I'm going to tell you it is so good. I want you all to go get it. Get the book and take a look at what you might be able to pull out of here and just slowly integrate into your team, into your department. If you left us with one last nugget. Like, Oh, she didn't ask me that question, I was going to say this! Do you have a thing that you just are like, Hey, everybody, listen up. Here's what I want you to really know.
[00:39:18] Lisa Even: I would say that if you can get other people involved in it, it is a blast. We do this with our friends. If you can get other teams at work to get involved in it, you would be so surprised at what people do with it. I've gotten cards in the mail that said, Hey, I attended your session and I'm not getting a divorce. I went home and I said to my husband, all right, we're putting some joy dates on the calendar. And she's like, it changed my marriage. And then I've got other people who it's taken them across the world because they reached out to an old friend and said, Hey, my first order of business is I'm supposed to make joy my job. And the book says I should do X. And so get people involved. We went to a Bridgerton ball in Minnesota.
[00:40:01] Nicole: Oh my gosh, what did you wear? Send me the picture.
[00:40:04] Lisa Even: I wore the gown, you know, I had to wear the gown. And, you know, it's just surprising that, we got our friends involved and then they were like, Hey, I know you're all about joy. Do you want to come up to Minnesota for this Bridgerton ball? And I was like yes, yes, please. Right? And the
[00:40:19] Nicole: my hair this big.
[00:40:22] Lisa Even: Exactly! The one other thing I will say-- and I could talk about joy all day-- is jump in someone else's joy. My husband's joy looks very different than mine. He loves football. Once a month I sit down and I watch a football game and he tells me all the stats from all the players of all the things. And all my job is to do is nod and smile. And sometimes I'm just like, I am now joyful because I am in your joy. And this brings you so much joy.
[00:40:45] Nicole: That's right, and there's like snacks when that's happening. So there you go. Yeah.
[00:40:50] Lisa Even: So, get other people involved and get in other people's joy and report back. I want to hear.
[00:40:55] Nicole: Okay. Fantastic. All right. If they wanted to report out to you, how would they send you a report? Tell us how to find where you are.
[00:41:03] Lisa Even: All right, lisaeven.com. There's a contact us form and then social media. I'm on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn.
[00:41:09] Nicole: All the places, everybody. Okay, and so let me hold up the book one more time. Get your book. It's  Joy Is My Job by Lisa Even. Lisa, I am full of joy talking to you. I'm one happy cat over here and I hope you will be as a result of listening to this. Here, do us a favor. Do us a favor. You know how this whole thing works. You got to go down and like just hit that. I had a good time listening to this. Hit the button and then maybe leave a little joy note, a little love note for Lisa down below. And we really appreciate you listening. And Lisa, I really appreciate you.
[00:41:41] Lisa Even: Thank you.
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