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Captain of the Afghanistan Football Team Zohib Islam Amiri shares incredible insights into how they beat India. The high risk flights strategy, Ashley Westwood meeting the Taliban, celebrations in Kabul and how a flight was made to wait for a National Hero Send us a text
Captain of the Afghanistan Football Team Zohib Islam Amiri shares incredible insights into how they beat India. The high risk flights strategy, Ashley Westwood meeting the Taliban, celebrations in Kabul and how a flight was made to wait for a National Hero
Chai Football is a weekly podcast hosted by well know Sony ESPN and Ten Sports TV Anchor Joe Morrison alongside sports business journalist, Shruthi Nair and outspoken owner of Delhi FC and the Minerva Football ‘factory’, Ranjit Bajaj.
A no holds barred look at what’s going on in the World of Indian Football along with regular invited guests from both the football landscape as well as famous fans of football from the sub-continent and beyond.
Speaker 1: Need a venue.
How about Warehouse 4?
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no, I'm serious then Warehouse
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Click that button now for me.
Thank you, I'm Joe Morrison.
Speaker 3: The bloody Britisha.
Speaker 1: So who are you?
Speaker 3: Just plain simple
Shruti.
Speaker 1: The bloody Indian,
late, late.
Speaker 3: That's not late,
that's just Indian Standard Time
IST.
Speaker 1: And I have 25 years
of live football television
experience.
What do you have?
Speaker 3: And I have been on
this planet for 25 years, you
sure.
Okay, maybe a little more than
that, but let's not talk about
that.
Speaker 1: And this is Chai
Football.
Speaker 3: And on this episode.
Speaker 2: Of course, in the
team, few boys are there that
they can play for the country
and they play for the coach, but
not all of them and he is the
one that every single one in the
team play for him.
We were fresh when we reached
Guati.
When we reached, we entered the
hotel.
They were dead.
You can see from the face they
were dead.
I think you're good long you're
gonna be here.
It's like, oh, I come for a
wedding, but I might go in like
in 20 days, like before the
india game.
We somehow we managed to build
a team team.
It's not the team that we had
before, but it built this team
welcome to chai football.
Speaker 3: And today we have joe
Joe Morrison in the studios,
finally after two months, and we
also have Zohib Ismail Amiri,
who you might know from the
Afghanistan football team Mumbai
.
Speaker 1: Dempo Goa, kerala,
chennai, kashmir and Mohan Bagan
.
Speaker 3: Oh, Mohan Bagan as
well.
Speaker 1: And what?
Sorry Shivajan.
So that's, is that right?
Eight, eight, I think yeah.
Speaker 2: Is it eight clubs?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Eight clubs
you've played for.
Speaker 2: Eight clubs 11 years
Eight clubs in 11 years.
Speaker 1: 11 years, yeah, wow.
Speaker 3: Wow, long, long
journey.
But you know what, honestly
with you, I'd like to start like
right from the beginning, like
I think your story itself,
what's out there, is just so
intriguing.
So let's start from the
beginning, from the top, which
is your childhood.
Walk us through it.
We've got a lot of time.
It's a podcast.
Speaker 2: It was to be honest.
Like you know, my country is so
difficult for my country, for
Afghanistan, especially as a kid
, to grow up and just come and
play in top, top level, you know
, especially play against so
many top players.
I never dream of that, to be
honest.
Speaker 3: So you were born.
Speaker 2: Be honest, I'm born
in Afghanistan and in Kabul,
yeah right, and then we become
refugee in Pakistan, right?
Speaker 3: I think it was like
96 so you're still young, very
young, very young, I think I was
like six or seven, okay.
Speaker 1: I just want for those
who are watching.
Uh, blow a few myths apart.
So, for example, football.
Is it the number one sport in
afghanistan?
Yes, bigger than cricket,
bigger than kiki.
I want to go, that's for sure.
And was it easy to play as a
child football, like, say, on
the street, in school?
Was it easy to play football?
Or was it because you hear all
of these stories about things
that are banned in Afghanistan
or you can't do in Afghanistan?
Was football easy to do?
Speaker 2: Yeah, because that
was the only sports, that was
the only I can say way of
bringing people together.
And as a father, I remember, I
think, when the first time I
went to the stadium, like it was
fully packed and people was
just how many?
Speaker 1: how many would be
there approximately?
Speaker 2: oh 10,000, 20,000, no
more than that, more than that
I had, I had I don't know.
I'm gonna give you guys one
picture.
I think I have a picture that
people was just sitting next to
the line sitting on the stand.
Speaker 3: Anywhere there was
space.
Speaker 2: Anywhere, even on the
line.
Speaker 3: Next to the pitch.
Speaker 2: Next to the pitch,
not one line, more than five,
six lines, just everybody
sitting that you can watch.
The first time I've been with
my father, I was like wow, I was
like this is the set, this is
the only thing, and the game was
starting 4 o'clock and people
was already from 11 or 12
o'clock in the afternoon oh wow,
it's like a concert.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you have to go.
Speaker 2: You have to always go
early to get a good seat, you
know yeah, otherwise quite
literally pit side yeah that is
the only sports and that was the
only thing that I remember that
Afghanistan people was just
cheering and people was actually
watching.
Speaker 1: We didn't have TV.
You didn't have TV?
No, we didn't have TV, so you
couldn't watch international
football like Premier.
League or did you watch the
World Cup?
Speaker 2: the first game I
watched ever was 1998 Brazil
against France in the World.
Cup, zizou scored two goals.
Wow, that was the first time I
watched where did you watch it
in?
Speaker 3: Afghanistan, the
first time so like that's the
first like televised game, you
watched, and that's why did one
person or one family have a TV
and everyone went to their house
yeah, we
Speaker 2: had we had the TV and
everybody had to their houses.
Yeah, we had the TV and
everybody had to come there and
watch.
Yeah, it was crazy.
You were the most popular
family in the neighbourhood
because you had the TV, I think
yes, because my father, we had
the biggest radio, we had the
biggest TV, but not colour TV.
It's, like you know, black and
white you have to watch that.
Who is Brazil and who is France?
Yeah, exactly, but it was nice,
it was a good experience.
Childhood, I think I never had
even thought of to be
professional, to be honest.
Speaker 3: So when did you start
playing then?
Speaker 2: From like I don't
know.
I was like six or seven years
old.
I just started on the street
just kicking, not a ball, we
used to make a ball with all
this clothes and all that stuff
like rags, yeah, and then you
can just, you know, kick it.
And the first time we had a ball
I don't know, I don't remember
like a guy we bought with the
ball and whenever he starts we
can just play with him.
Whenever he finished, the game
is over.
So you take the ball the first
time proper ball and you were
like, wow, this is different.
So he takes the ball and he
goes and finish the first time
proper ball and you were like,
wow, this is different so he was
always on the winning team
because if he was on the losing
team, he fucked off yeah,
exactly, exactly.
Yeah.
The first time I started
playing it was, I don't know, it
was six, seven years old, but
it was nice, it was good
experience.
Speaker 1: But when I moved to,
so there was sorry, there was no
professional footballers that
were Afghani at that time that
you were a kid, no, I think we
didn't even have a national team
that time.
Speaker 2: Really, yeah, we had
only in Afghanistan, kabul the
league that you have to play
together, and then the the other
province team.
Once a year they come together
and play, and that time, when
they're coming from other cities
, it was like a walker for us.
You cannot get ticket to the
stadium.
That's why I said you have to
go super early to get tickets to
watch the game, because from
one city, then Kabul, it was all
competition.
Speaker 1: Who are the big teams
?
Who would be the Manchester
United and Liverpool of
Afghanistan?
Speaker 2: You know, the first
time when I realised it, the
first time when I remembered
that when I came to Afghanistan,
back from Pakistan, and that
time it was, we used to play
city against city.
It was not in Afghanistan, okay
, in Kabul we had a few teams,
but what they were doing they
were making a joint team.
You know, a superstar team so
yeah, from kabul.
So they had, I think, maybe 10
or 15 teams.
They take all this good
superstar, all the start team,
and they're making kabul a and
kabul b and then they have to
compete with other cities, like
from Kandahar, from Iraq, from
other cities but it was not
professional though not
professional.
Not professional did you get
anything?
Speaker 1: did you get expenses
or boots?
Speaker 2: no, nothing no,
nothing, nothing, nothing like
when when I like, I like I don't
know before that how it was
working, but when I come to to
this, you know the how it was
working.
But when I come to to this, you
know the setup.
I can say, in afghanistan, for
the first time, when I seen I
got selected to the kabul b, you
know it was crazy.
People was like talking about
and it was like not even
national team, because our
national team I don't know if
you know the story.
Speaker 1: On 2003 they ran
story.
Speaker 2: This is funny.
So what happened is like, I
think, after the Taliban, so
this was the first regime of
Taliban when they before 2004
yes, when they gone.
I think they had this.
This trip to Italy, they had a
game.
Speaker 1: I don't know the team
, the national team?
Speaker 2: not national team,
national team, because I don't
remember I was so young but the
boys that would run away, they
were.
They say like we were in the
national team and they become my
teammates later on and they
play for one year and then they
that's it.
They were telling us their
stories.
They say like we had this trip
and then they said I don't know
who decided he's the head coach
and he come everybody's home.
You know knocking like yeah,
you want to go to trip this so
I'm trying to get my head around
this.
Speaker 1: So this was obviously
after the invasion in 2001, a
couple years later yeah, 2003,
sorry 2003?
Yes, so a couple years after
the initial american invasion.
Um, and basically what you're
saying is they put together just
a bunch of players.
Speaker 2: The bunch of players
that they used to play during
the Taliban Right.
Speaker 1: Okay, so they had
played football, exactly Right,
but they weren't the official
national team.
That's what you're saying.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 1: And they're on a tour
, a football tour.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Right, but it wasn't
an official football tour.
Speaker 2: No, no, like.
So they have this, I don't know
, like, I think for some charity
game or something.
Yeah, because I don't have a
lot of information, but yeah,
the way he was telling me this
like a united nations game or
something, yeah, something like
that.
So they went to it to italy.
And they say like we reach
around, like in in the afternoon
, and the boys is so funny, he
was in the team, the guy, and
now he's in us.
So he was, he was telling me
that.
So we, the old team, once we
reach in in the hotel, everybody
was, you know, just playing
around and they say like let's
go to the beach.
And they were exactly staying
in the beach.
And they say, all of us, we
went to downstairs, so we're
sitting in the beach.
And they say, like I think
you're not going to go back.
Speaker 3: So just stay back in
the country.
Speaker 2: No, and they said
that the next the tickets are
already sold.
I think already 10,000 tickets
For the game itself.
For the game, yeah, exactly.
And this guy said one guy is
standing like I'm going, I don't
care if you guys are going to
come, you come, if not, I'm
going.
So they didn't play the game.
No, nothing, one day before the
game they're gone.
There's a two sitting in the,
in the car gone somewhere in
Germany, two of them, and in you
know, and in tube they'll go to
I don't know so they just got
an all expense paid tourism trip
.
Speaker 3: Technically, yeah,
that was the first trip that was
the first trip for them.
Speaker 2: I think.
I don't know, I don't even ask
them.
Speaker 1: Americans?
I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know, and
they said that's it done.
Gone.
The next day they had a trip,
they had a game, they had to go
there, and then they're trying
to gather a lot of boys, you
know, because yeah, the match
has got to go ahead exactly.
And they say, like all this
Afghan refugee, the one who is
staying there, they say we have
to call them.
You've played football, yes,
you come, you play football.
And they say, like a defender
was a tall defender, he's in
Canada now.
He say, like I was tall because
the goalkeeper ran away, so he
doesn't have a goalkeeper.
I had to send the goal, but I
had to ask which team was
playing there against I don't
know, and they said, like first
20 minutes they were not even
shooting.
You know, they were just, you
know, crossing.
They were scared of this guy, I
thought the good goalkeeper.
Speaker 3: And then after after
20 minutes, like everywhere, you
know what this has actually
happened with the Indian team as
well.
Many years back it was for one
of the the German Olympics.
I think it was Many years back.
Speaker 1: I can't remember what
the game was 1936 Olympics, the
Nazi Olympics, was it the?
Speaker 3: Nazi Olympics?
Yeah, but a bunch of Indian
players.
I can't remember what sport it
was about 23 people.
They went to Germany for the
Olympics and then the next
morning, when the game was
actually going to happen, the
team go looking for these guys
and the room is empty, empty.
Everybody is missing.
So what they did was they
wanted to go to germany and live
there as you know, immigrants
yeah and then that's how they
got there, and now nobody can
find them.
No one knows where they are.
They probably settled down in
germany and europe and stuff
like that.
Speaker 2: So this, this, yeah,
it sounds like a scheme, right
like no, no, a scheme like I
don't know, like you say, like
Things were desperate at that
time.
No, for so many years it was
not Chaos, yeah, it was not a
place to live and all this stuff
.
And then suddenly they decided
that, okay, I think this is the
biggest opportunity Europe.
Every place is closed.
Why not?
Speaker 1: If you played at that
time and you did play at that
time in in afghanistan were you
famous?
Were you like a celebrity?
If you were a player who played
in one of those leagues that
you're talking about kabul a
club, sorry, kabul a, kabul b
were you did did people
recognize you on the street?
Speaker 2: of course, all of
them, even like as a young, when
I used to go to to watch the
game before we moved refugee for
a few years and back come back.
I.
I always like remember that
names.
You know that, that guys, that,
oh, you play this guy in this
team, you playing this, this guy
in this team.
Speaker 3: You know, we all
remember that so sorry, before
you went to pakistan, then you
were still like playing and you
know, on the street I was not
playing professionally how was
that situation though?
because this is the, the taliban
era, right like before you got
your first president and all of
that.
Uh, sorry to be a little
political here, but like, how
was it like living in that sort
of era where you, you clearly
had a passion for football, the
country obviously really had
that passion for football, but
what was the the whole feel like
living there?
Speaker 2: You know, like the
first regime, the second after
that, like a lot of regime,
changed it, but football was
always the same.
It never changed that passion
that people was always
supporting, the government was
always supporting.
So that, as I said, like that
was the only reason, you know,
people leave, people enjoy,
people celebrate One win,
everybody's in the street, so
that is the only thing.
That's why, like when you ask
me about cricket, cricket is
like last, I don't know a few
years, but football is always
from oh, you're gonna offend a
lot of people.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, no, that's,
that's true that's true, that's
true, that's true.
Speaker 1: football always you I
suppose the thing is, it
doesn't matter whether you're
from Afghanistan, any country in
the world.
If you are a famous footballer
that plays for the national team
, that's captain for the
national team.
It doesn't matter whether
you're an American, you're a
Republican or Democrat.
If you're in England, whether
you're Labour or Conservative,
whether it's Taliban or what was
the other group, northern
Alliance or whoever the other
group were, you have this
special status.
Yes, yes, that both sides
respect you Exactly.
Speaker 2: You're a famous
sports person.
Speaker 1: You're a famous
footballer of the national sport
.
Exactly so, I suppose it
doesn't matter if it was the
previous regime or the next
regime.
They both love you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, doesn't
matter if it was the previous
regime or the next regime, they
both love you.
In that context, did you ever
sort of get these approaches
from the government or Taliban,
if I may ask, who might have
been sort of, you know, like
fans of football and wanted to
see football progress and stuff?
Have you had those encounters?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did.
We're going to come on to it in
a second.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we will when we
talk about.
Speaker 3: What is that story?
What is the suspense?
No, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1: We will come on to it
about the Indian game this year
when they played India.
Afghanistan beat India, but did
you play professional in
Pakistan?
Speaker 2: No, so what happened
is like for the Like.
I was playing there in one
academy called Akkahan.
Like I was very young, like my
brother.
Both brother was playing there
and that was not a professional.
No, they were not professional.
Even now they don't know.
No, they don't play.
Uh, they were just playing.
You know, like time pass.
But for the first time when I
come to afghanistan, it was my,
my cousin's wedding, and my, my
cousin one of them.
He was playing in one of this
lower league of afghanistan.
You, this club called Shoa.
I said, can I come with you in
training?
He's like, yeah, come.
So I was young, but I was good,
you know.
So when they see me there, they
say like, oh, I think you're
good, how long are you going to
be here?
It's like, oh, I come for a
wedding, but I might go in like
in 20 days.
They, we have game, this
professional Kabul league is
starting.
So if you want to play two,
three game and after that if you
want to go back, you can go.
I said like, yeah, why not?
So I play for the first time
with this club, shoa, this
professional Kabul league.
You know it was like first time
.
Speaker 1: I just come in the
stadium.
Speaker 2: Is this the
professional?
Speaker 1: league that was set
up by the US State Department.
Speaker 2: No that was later on.
Later on, before it was just in
Kabul, they had, like I think,
12 team or 15 teams not paying.
They're paying, they're taking
money from the boys.
Speaker 1: Oh, no, no money like
no money.
Speaker 2: It's like no money
that the club just pay, you know
.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Even the boys was
playing.
Everybody have to pay fees.
You know Like an even the boys
was playing.
Everybody have to pay fees.
Speaker 1: You know like an
academy you go to academies like
this, but so this was before
the US professional league
exactly just to interrupt you
there, sorry Amiri.
I think it's worth pointing out
to those who are watching that,
as part of this rebuilding of
Afghanistan, that the US were
involved in, and the allies of
course.
They created a League in Kabul,
wasn't it?
Yeah so it was like taking this
on, and they had, I think,
television deals.
Speaker 2: Broadcasted on TV
that come later on.
That was later later on, to be
honest, in 2005.
It was this kind of teams, this
kind of professional teams,
that all was competitive kind of
teams.
This kind of professional teams
that all was competitive.
The stadium was full, people
was all chatting and all that
stuff.
It was nice feeling to go and
play, no money, but it was
unbelievable.
Speaker 1: What was the average
crowd then?
Speaker 2: I think the stadium
was full.
So I can say that the stadium
like 25,000 that.
But you know, when you see it
all.
I think it's more than like
60,000 that, but you know when
you see it all like 17,.
It's more than like 60,000.
More than that I will show you.
Maybe you put in your podcast
that pictures like people is.
You know they have this, you
know big places that you have to
just put something.
You know people is just God on
that and just sitting there it's
like crazy, unbelievable for me
.
Speaker 1: Were these the
stadiums that, famously, people
talked about executions taking
place?
Yeah, that was the one.
Did you see anything like that?
Did you see anything in those
things?
Speaker 2: No, I was too young.
I was too young.
No, I didn't see anything.
But yeah, when this was
happening, then a few clubs,
they come up with some money,
the competition come up, and
then I remember that, kabul
being one of the richest bank in
afghanistan they come up with
this idea that you want to buy
all these superstars from other
teams but sorry, just to clarify
, you were just visiting for
your cousin's wedding, so you
were planning on going back to
pakistan, but you didn't, you
just stayed back because of this
opportunity yeah, wow, sorry.
Speaker 1: So then, to go from
there to india, did you have an
agent?
Speaker 2: no, nothing.
So I'll tell you.
This is a funny story all your
stories are funny.
Speaker 1: By the way, I've
known amiri for years and every
time we sit down I'm constantly
going you.
You know what?
I need another two hours.
The stories are brilliant.
Sorry, carry on.
Speaker 2: So 2005, when I say
like 100 boys come up together.
They selected a national team
and the national team is
supposed to go to Germany for
just trip and then come back and
we played first SAF
championship in Pakistan,
karachi, on 2005.
So I got selected on that 25.
Saf by the wayachi in 2005.
So I got selected on that 25.
Speaker 1: SAF, by the way,
south Asian Football Federation,
and for me, and for my family
it was one of the biggest moment
.
Speaker 2: You know, like none
of my family member was even
expected to play for the
national team.
I remember all of them was like
sitting in front of TV, it was
like four o'clock in the evening
and they're announcing all the
boys.
You know, at that time it was,
and everybody was like, oh, and
then my name come up.
So it was a dream come true,
yeah.
And then, and imagine, like for
me I was in Karachi.
I grew up like people know a
lot of people was there still in
Karachi, and to go and play for
Afghanistan national team in
Karachi for me it was a big
thing, you know.
Speaker 1: Did you ever get
offered citizenship to play for
another country?
No, nowadays it happens a lot.
Speaker 2: No, no, no.
But because like I always
wanted to play for Afghanistan,
even like if somebody was asking
me also to do it, no chance,
yeah, yeah.
Then when I go to Pakistan.
Speaker 1: Respect, by the way,
respect A lot of people would
have gone.
You know what?
I can go and play for England,
or you know another country.
Speaker 2: Like if you ask me,
like opportunity, like if that's
why I say, like if it's going
to come, also like no chance for
me, because always, like you
know, my family, family,
everybody is Afghanistan and I
love Afghanistan.
You know that.
And when I went to Pakistan and
I seen that feeling and all
that stuff, so I said I'm not
gonna stay one more day in
Pakistan, so that is the time.
Then I move back which year was
that?
Speaker 1: 2005 2005, you moved
back, I was 15, and then I move
alone back yeah alone back, yeah
so how did you get your first
gig in India, your first club in
India, which was, which was
Mumbai MC?
Speaker 2: yes, yeah, so this
club come up, kabul being one of
the reaches.
They're paying every single one
so much money.
They bought all this good
players from different clubs.
You know, in Afghanistan a
couple like our bench was more,
you know like, famous and
expensive than the first level
it was.
They bought every single one
Kabul bank.
And then Kabul bank was this
kind of thing, you know, for
marketing you have to take the
team always somewhere some city
and that time we win the
championship and they say like
okay, where are you guys gonna
go, you know?
they said like oh, maybe we have
some marketing strategy.
We go to Mumbai.
So okay, let's go.
So they take the team.
We go to Mumbai, we stand Jew
Novotel.
I still remember.
Speaker 1: Jew.
Speaker 2: Novotel.
Yes, I remember.
Yes, we were staying there and
we used to go to Colaba, to
Coprish, to play against teams
or train and you know the Cup
Bridge.
Well, yeah, so we play against
Mumbai CTFC or Mumbai, and then
we play against Air India and
then we play against some army
club I don't remember, and that
time, like I was young,
energetic, I play, and that's
why they see me few of them and
they exchange we exchange number
and then I go back to
Afghanistan, but and the
exchange my we exchange number,
and then I go back to
afghanistan, but after that,
like the next week, they send me
a message that if you want to
come, we can, we can talk.
It's like okay, no, no, no
problem, I can come.
I went to air india first,
before mumbai.
Oh, really, air india was the
one that wanted to sign me, but
the amount, the money that they
offer me, and then when I went
to see the pitch and all that
stuff, I didn't like it, to be
honest.
Speaker 1: So the pitches in
Afghanistan were better than the
.
Speaker 2: Exactly In
Afghanistan, I was getting more
money than here.
Speaker 1: So, come on, you got
to tell us Don't tell us about
anything else, I'm not going to
ask you about your salary for
the rest of your career but what
were you getting paid by Kabul
Bank at that time?
So no, I'll tell you.
What was the average, not
necessarily yours what was the
average salary that you and
those superstar boys were
getting from Kabul Bank?
Speaker 2: Three, three In
dollars.
Oh, I can say, okay, so $500 a
week $500 a week, which must be
big, big money.
That time it was crazy money.
That time it was crazy money
for us $500.
That's why, when I got an offer
from Air India and then Mumbai
FC, the Cowell Bank owner is
like.
Speaker 3: That seemed much
better.
He's like you're crazy.
Speaker 2: You know I'm giving
you more than that.
Okay, this is your salary, but
I'm giving you again so much
money.
You know, every time we win the
game, like okay, take this
$500,.
You know, every time we win the
game, like, okay, take this
$500, you know, happy and all
this guy was rich, this guy.
But I said no, I think for me,
my desire is always to take new
challenges and do something good
.
Speaker 1: So you took a drop in
salary to go play in India.
Speaker 2: A lot, a lot a lot
and I was the first professional
football player from
Afghanistan ever to to go
outside and play.
Speaker 3: I was the first one,
yeah and then from that time it
started so, in terms of the
quality of football, did you
think Afghanistan was better
then?
Speaker 2: if you ask me.
Speaker 1: At that time.
Speaker 2: At that time, the
treatment and the environment
and the facility and everything
was like much better than Mumbai
, really Only Mumbai, I think.
Speaker 3: Was it only because
of Kabul Bank, this rich man,
that happened to?
Speaker 2: Yes, yes.
Speaker 3: How was the condition
like with the other teams, for
example?
Speaker 2: The other team was
like bad, yeah, but Kabul Bank,
they had this big, big house and
all the boys were staying there
.
Good jersey, they had this a
big, big house and all the boys
was staying there good, good,
good jersey we had to get, like
good money and the food was
unbelievable.
Good life, yeah, good life.
It's like we were used to call,
like okay, I think this is
professional, proper
professional.
That time it started the money
come up in afghanistan, because
before that nobody was talking
about money.
If there were boys, go and ask
the president like, oh, he gave
me money, like money?
Which money?
Yeah, no money, you know.
But when kabul bank came, they
bring this.
You know that you have to pay
money.
Speaker 3: You have to pay money
to these boys so how many years
did you live in india?
In total, at a stretch 11 total
11 years in india alone yeah,
oh, and you never went back to
Afghanistan during that period
like when the league was over,
just go for a month and then
come back again.
Right, because for me, as I say
always like, india is my second
home out of all the 8 clubs
you've played, in which one was
your favourite in terms of
experience?
Speaker 2: Dempo and FC Goa,
because both are the same, so
Dempo.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Dempo for me.
Speaker 1: Because of the place,
because of the football.
Speaker 2: Because of everything
.
Professionalism.
Speaker 1: Lifestyle.
Speaker 2: Lifestyle, training
ground, salary-wise.
Like never, ever, ever delay
for one minute.
You know, we know that.
Okay, if today is first he's
going to come.
Speaker 1: That's saying
something by the way, Payments
being no, I'm being serious
Payments being on time has been
one of the biggest diseases and
I would call it a disease in
Indian football.
Paying players on time.
I've experienced over the years
.
Players have been on the phone
to me crying because it's into
the last last, say, two or three
months of the season and
they've picked up a serious
injury, but they do not want to
tell the management because they
know if the management says,
okay, serious injury, you're
going to be out for six months.
Why do we need to pay your
salary for the last three months
?
Speaker 2: exactly that kind of
bullshit exactly is.
Speaker 1: It happens a lot and
has happened a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
That's why, like when I went to
Denpun, I was shocked because
that was my second club, because
what I experienced in Mumbai,
it was terrible for me.
Yeah, like I come on, like I
think in a time that I was
getting good money in Kabul Bank
, everything was good, and I
come there to just take a picket
and just trust people that they
talk, and that time Khalid
Jamil was in the team.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: And first year I
stayed with them the way they
were talking and all that stuff,
but the second year I should
have not signed it, because that
time Bangalore came up.
Speaker 1: That must have been
the year they launched.
Was it Bangalore?
Speaker 2: come up and I had an
offer from Bangalore came up.
That must have been the year
they launched, was it?
Bangalore come up and I had an
offer from Bangalore, and then I
had an offer from a lot of
other clubs.
But then Khalid Jamil was
talking about all this stuff.
Still, I wanted to say, because
it's Mumbai, you know, but okay
, my salary grew and all that
stuff, but I didn't even see
outside, like when I go for the
first time to dimple and I
actually see no I think this is
a proper professionalism.
Yeah, this is a club, that's.
Speaker 1: Everybody was talking
I think it's worth letting
people know.
Bengaluru changed
professionalism in indian
football at that time.
This was before the super
league, wasn't it?
Yeah, so when bengaluru first
started BFC, they were I-League
club, but they came in under
coach Ashley Westwood and Mandar
Tamami.
They came in and just changed
the levels of professionalism in
Indian football.
Exactly, and there's a
connection here.
The reason I'm mentioning this
is because of Ashley Westwood in
particular.
There's a connection here which
is going to come around full
circle, which we'll get on to in
a minute.
Speaker 3: It's coming does this
have to do with the infamous
match for?
Speaker 1: the one that makes
you sad.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, we did
discuss that at length, didn't
we?
Are we there yet?
Sorry?
Go on so you're talking about
tempo.
Speaker 2: Yeah, when I went for
the first time, that time papas
was a coach but the president
such a good guy.
You know like, when I went to
the clubhouse and went to
training ground, the facility,
the, the, the place where they
gave to every foreign player
like a big house for everybody,
you know, like, like I had it
like the biggest house on that
place, you know.
But I'm coming a salary,
because the salary was always on
time.
This was such a good one and
the pitch was unbelievable, the
training ground and everything
was so good.
Speaker 3: I like how you're
also saying it's not.
The salary was good, the
punctuality of it is more
important, exactly.
Speaker 2: Because none of the
club asked me.
I might be right, but I'm sure
you know more than more than me,
the Indian boys and the Indian
football.
No club I don't know, but the
club that I've been, none of
them was on time.
The salary, yeah none of them, I
don't know about the other
thing, because I didn't play for
Bangalore, I don't know, but
the team I've been like none of
them was on time and I was
asking other boys.
They said like how about you?
I was like no, my one is the
same my one is the same.
Speaker 3: So since ISL, for
example, happened, did that sort
of change?
Because you've also experienced
this whole ISL environment,
where they've gotten players
from all over, so they would
have been forced to be more
professional then no.
Speaker 2: The Super League.
The Super League the way they
launched it.
It was, I think, one of the
biggest year of my career.
Speaker 1: I can say which club
were you at for the first year?
Speaker 2: FC Goa, for the first
year of the Super League For
the first year, yeah, and for me
it was the most I can say, the
best year of my career.
I got the opportunity to play
under Zico and then a lot of top
players and I played against
the legendary Brazilian Zico.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, he was
obviously a coach at that time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
And then for me it was that
time that it was everything.
For me, the year was good.
I performed very good that year
.
I played very, very good and I
got retended to to even play for
the next year, but I got
injured who's?
Speaker 1: the hardest player
you've played against the most
difficult opponent you ever had,
national team or club oh,
national team and club, so
national team.
Speaker 2: I can say Del Piero,
oh sorry, club Del Piero, oh
sorry club Del Piero, that I
play against Delhi, against Goan
Delhi.
I was with him.
Oh, wow what a quality Right, oh
my God, unbelievable.
I never, ever, like that time.
You know, when you see somebody
play for such a high level and
World Cup and Champions League
and everything, and then you see
your level, that time you have
to be always ready.
You have to be always on your
toes.
You have to be always ready.
If something happens, you have
to be ready, and I was man to
man with him.
Speaker 1: For 20 minutes.
I'm going to check this, I'm
going to Google it whilst you're
chatting.
I'm sure was it Del Piero that
was injured for almost the
entire first Super League season
.
He played something like 20 or
40 minutes in the entire first
season Was it.
Del Piero, or was it Trezeguet?
Speaker 2: No, that is somebody
else.
I'm going to check there was
someone.
Speaker 1: There was a player,
that famous player, that played
20 minutes because they were
injured for the rest of the time
.
Carry on I'm going to Google it
.
Speaker 3: So you know what, now
that you've said that you know,
11 years in india, you've had a
great experience, you've built
all of these personal bonds.
So then when you go back and
you have to play a match against
india because you've done it a
couple of times- lots of times
yeah, uh.
So how?
How was that?
Like when you you just kind of
play against your teammates who
you would have been your
teammates in some other match.
You know, how is that feeling
for you?
Speaker 2: you know, always,
like I don't know, uh, when you
play in the league and then you
know a lot of boys and you know
the league and you know how they
play in and out every weekend
and all that stuff, it was kind
of motivation to go and play and
beat them and then the next and
go back to the club and it's
like, oh, what's happening?
You know so because between us
we always have these things, you
know, but always to play
against India, it was, you know,
motivation, to be honest do you
look forward to those games?
against India always, always,
because you've had some great
battles against Sunil.
Chetri in particular and the
Indian team.
Yeah, always, I think we need
to get on to it.
Speaker 3: Is it time?
Yes, it's the time.
It's the time.
Speaker 1: There's an elephant
in the room.
There's an elephant in the room
.
Speaker 3: We've been beating
around the bush for far too long
.
Speaker 1: Shruti's going to go
stand behind the curtains and
cry, so you take the lead,
Shruti.
Speaker 3: This year.
Speaker 1: What happened?
Speaker 3: I mean
congratulations to you guys.
You all did extremely well,
despite all the odds against you
and despite everything that's
happening.
You all performed brilliantly.
But what happened?
I want to ask it with more
enthusiasm, but I'm going to ask
it like this what happened?
We beat India.
That happened.
Speaker 1: First of all, let's
bring Ashley Westwood back into
the, into the conversation.
Just tell us about Ashley
Westwood and his involvement
with the Afghan national team as
their coach one of the best
what is?
What is he?
Speaker 2: what has he done to
Afghanistan that has made him
unique in your opinion for
coaches of the national team,
what he done for Afghanistan
national team that in 20 years
of the national team nobody done
it yet is professionalism,
fighting spirit, togetherness,
and the boys never, never tell.
Now, in 20 years of my career,
none of the boys like, of course
, of course, in the team few
boys is there that they can play
for the country and they play
for the coach, but not all of
them, and he is the one that
every single one in the team
play for him.
Did he not have?
Speaker 1: a mutiny at the
beginning of his tenure as
Afghanistan coach, was there not
a bunch of players who said I'm
not playing for him?
Or was there not a dispute just
before he took over?
Or was it when he took over,
when?
Speaker 2: he took over we
didn't have a national team,
because before he took over we
had a coach from I don't know,
like Qatar, kuwait or someone.
That crazy guy.
No, seriously, because first he
didn't invite the top and
senior boys, including me,
didn't invite.
He took all the boys from
Afghanistan.
He said he wanted to beat with
the kids all this top team, but
then realized that he cannot do,
and then he he kind of bring
all these other boys, so he
basically banned them exactly
yeah and they had a game against
Mongolia two games, home and
away and there when they beat, I
think they beat Mongolia at
home, and then they went to
Mongolia to play against
Mongolia, and then what happened
is all the boys come together
and kick him out of the stadium.
Speaker 1: And he was not on the
bench.
Speaker 2: He was not on the
bench against Mong, not in the
bench against against Mongolia.
The second game, an important
game.
If we lose that, when we are
not going to qualify for the
qualifying round of the World
Cup and FC, if we win, then yes,
we are here and somehow some
boys took over the because I was
not here.
This is what I seen the story
like.
I heard the story.
So you were not one of the
mutineers.
No, no, I was not.
I was not.
And then the beat mongolia, the
qualify and then, I think the
same night, all 21 of them,
they're writing in social media
that we have a demand, you're
not going to play.
We have the federation have to
do this for us, do this.
You know, always when you
demand, I think better you
should sit at the table in
private, exactly, yeah fix it
and then you see how it is.
You cannot just put in social
media.
In my point of view, I don't
know, maybe the time was
different.
I don't know how it worked for
them and I was not there what
happened, I don't know even so.
So then Ashley comes in, so
then they approach me.
If I can bring the boys come
back together, if we can fix
this, you say they.
Speaker 1: That's the.
Speaker 2: Afghan Federation
government and everybody, all of
them, yes.
And then we have to bring some
coach because we are going to
have a game in like in a month,
not a month, 25 days after that
game.
So they had few coaches on
their mind and I say, listen,
guys, if you want to fix this
mess, he is the only one can fix
it.
I think for me.
Still, I say, and I will always
say, that the only person can
fix a team, or to just from
scratch or like a mess team that
I can say, is Ashley.
Speaker 3: So had you worked
with him before?
No, never.
So how did you know this guy?
I?
Speaker 2: always heard good
things about him, because a lot
of boys in Bangalore later on
they become my teammates and
always they're talking good
things about him Always.
And I was like wow, wow.
And then that time I messaged
him.
Actually I said you're free?
Like yeah, I think before that,
I think few months back, we
were just talking about a few
things, but we never meet, we
never had any conversation, we
never had any anything.
And then I say you, you, what
do you think you want to come?
Like yeah, I will come, but
what do you think like you want
to come?
He's like yeah, I will come,
but what do you think?
I was like this is a mess, we
have to fix it.
You know so, hours and hours
and hours every day me, him and
the GS of the Federation and the
president.
We were just talking, you know
fast.
Speaker 3: Did it take a lot of
convincing from your side to,
you know, convince him to come
in?
Speaker 2: No, actually he's
somebody that loves to take
challenges, and I love about him
.
Speaker 1: It might end up
watching this.
I think Ashley's got a screw
missing, but I can say that I've
spent a bit of time with Ashley
.
We did some I can't remember
whether it was the Euros or some
World Cup shows together and
obviously you know, just in the
same circle, saw him at the
Asian Cup actually with you in
January.
So I know Ashley reasonably well
and he is quite a character,
but you're correct in pointing
out that he's one of those
characters.
I have this term called NFG
right, and it means no fucks
given, and there's very few
people I come across in my world
.
I have this term called NFG
right, and it means no fucks
given, exactly, and there's very
few people I come across in my
world who are genuine.
Speaker 3: no fucks given Like
Roy Keane is a no fucks given.
Speaker 1: If they kicked him
off that TV show tomorrow, he
wouldn't care.
I've got millions in the bank.
Don't give a fuck.
I'm not trying to build a TV
career Like I've had my career.
Budgie is another one.
You know, you know, budgie the
goalkeeper, no fucks given,
doesn't care less about anything
.
Ashley is one of those.
Yeah, and he's one of those.
That's why he doesn't care who
he offends, and I think that's
actually and you might agree
with me on this, and I'm sure if
Ashley's watching this, if he
was honest, he'll agree that's
maybe why he hasn't had that
many coaching roles in India
after Bengaluru, because he will
break eggs.
But sometimes that's what you
need to fix a mess.
You need to piss people off,
you need to break eggs, you need
to fix the situation without
being all gently, nicey-nicey.
You know, you're trying to win,
you're trying to win, correct.
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course I
think for for his character,
like we need somebody like this
in Arkansas and he's, I think
for me, like when I approach him
, I I thought he's good, but I
never thought like that, how,
how good he is, you know, like I
think give an example.
I'm the only one like always in
touch from seven months.
We are talking every day like a
lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, like
good, I can say, like in every
way.
Like the way he train the boys,
the way mentality train the
boys, the way he set up a
training, the way he fight for
the boys, like every single
things, even like a bottle of
water, like food, like hotel and
everything.
So you want everything the best
for the boys.
What did?
Speaker 1: he do that.
You saw then your opinion that
made you so successful over
those two legs, one in saudi
arabia and one in guawati.
Wasn't it the second Guawati?
So what did he do that made you
successful in Saudi Arabia?
Speaker 2: I think, and his
thinking is like I think one
year ahead of everybody else,
always one year ahead, one step
ahead yeah one step.
I can say an example, that when
we play against India at home.
After that it was a long
journey back to to guati and
everybody know it, and in the
why is that?
Speaker 3: why do you say that?
Speaker 2: the journey is means
that it it a lot of connection
oh it takes, you can't go.
Speaker 1: You can't go direct
you cannot go direct you have to
go via riyadh Dubai.
Speaker 2: Delhi or something.
Speaker 1: Did Ashley choose
Abba as the location?
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: Right, okay.
Speaker 2: No, because.
Speaker 1: Abba is a town city
right in the bottom corner of
Saudi Arabia.
So you couldn't get any further
, so sorry to interrupt you.
So you couldn't get any further
, so sorry to interrupt you.
Afghanistan were playing their
home games in Saudi Arabia as
part of a deal with the Saudi
Football Federation.
They were acting as hosts.
Saudis All of Afghans' home
games are played in Saudi.
Sorry that's an aside.
Coming back to this, yeah.
Speaker 2: so, ashley, think
about everything ahead of
everything.
Everybody else and he knew it
that if we play against India
and we finish the game 10
o'clock, no one going to sleep
till morning after the game, and
if we sleep, for example, like
in the morning, and then we have
a long journey to Guati and the
recovery time is like so less
so we work, and me, him and his
assistant is like so less so we
work, and me, him and his
assistant we work for to find
the best possible flight to
reach India as soon as possible
before India.
Speaker 1: so you didn't go to
bed.
Speaker 2: That night we
finished the game.
But before we go to the stadium
, all the back, everything was
packed in the lobby.
We come back, shower everything
in the stadium.
We come to hotel.
We had back, shower everything
in the stadium.
We come to hotel.
We had a good food.
Take the back, gone to the
airport, take the next flight to
the area, to Abu, dhabi, abu
Dhabi to Bangalore, and we reach
in Bangalore.
And we reach.
India team was already sleeping
in the hotel in Aba.
So we go to the Bangalore
walking distance to touch sleep
at night there Next morning good
recovery, eat, good food.
Take the next flight.
We were fresh when we reached
Guwahati.
When we reached, we entered the
hotel.
India team was entering the
hotel.
They were dead.
You can see from the face they
were dead.
Speaker 3: Oh my God.
It shows how important all of
this is right.
Speaker 2: Exactly that 24-hour
recovery session before India
was the difference.
That small thing.
Nobody even thought of that.
Speaker 1: There's a couple of
elements to this story which I
think we also need to highlight.
One I'm going to get you to
tell.
The other is prior to the
Afghan game, both legs, there
was an announcement made by the
AIFF that they had arranged
charter flights for the Indian
team.
Now, most teams in the world
national teams and club teams,
especially the big club teams,
use charter flights to get
around.
Speaker 3: I don't remember
seeing any charter flights when
I was with Newcastle United.
Speaker 1: We flew to all
Champions League games, all away
games, by charter flight, so
all the teams on the flight.
Now, the thing about a charter
flight is you're not on a
schedule with an airline, so you
can go direct.
You can find whatever the
nearest runway or airport is and
just go direct.
It makes life very easy.
So apparently they'd done this
deal and, uh, it was announced,
tentatively announced, and then
the deal fell apart.
Exactly now you're going to
pick up the story here because
you didn't just pack your bags,
did you?
ashley was very specific about
what you put in your bag because
, a team travels, not just with,
you know, a wheelie carry-on
they travel with kits, they call
them.
Uh, what do they call, not bins
?
Speaker 2: um, equipment, all
this, like so.
So what happened is, like he
said, because we had a like that
was a risky flight to take it,
to be honest, like nobody even
thought and nobody gonna take
that, because we had a very
short period of connection in
Abu.
Dhabi.
Speaker 1: So if you miss that
connection.
Speaker 2: If you miss, we are
gone, we are gone, we are gone.
So he said that in backpack,
both shoes, one training jersey,
two game jersey and the kit,
man, if you will, and that also
I don't care, but all the boys
have to take this one and we, so
we prepared that way that all
the the seat we already reserved
the first row, we finish and we
are running in the airport.
I'm not kidding, we are running
the last call we reach on the
gate.
It was last call when we reach
to the gate this is in Aba.
Speaker 1: Oh no, this is in Abu
Dhabi.
No in Abu.
Speaker 2: Dhabi and we were
running, running, running,
running.
He is first and we are running
behind him.
Ashley was first.
Last call.
It was last call.
That's where we reached to the
gate.
It was last call.
Speaker 3: But it all paid off.
Speaker 2: Right, we made it, we
made it All the kids, we made
it the all the kid.
Everything was transferred and
then we reach.
Once we reach and touch in
bangalore we were like okay,
it's so strange that was the
game changing the man changing
decision.
Speaker 3: It's not what
actually happened on the day,
like what happened before, had
such an important exactly a lot
of things like I think not.
Speaker 2: Nobody think about
all this small small details and
eating always ahead of
everything.
Like he is somebody that that
is minus all over the place.
You know he thinks about all
the positivity.
You know like he thinks about
that if we do this, I think it's
good, it's good, this is good,
and then, at the end of the day,
he's taking decisions.
You know.
Speaker 1: I think there's
something worth pointing out to
those who are watching Again.
When I was working under Sir
Bobby Robson when you finish the
game late at night, you're
buzzing, aren't you?
Speaker 2: Exactly.
Speaker 1: Your energy's up,
your adrenaline's flowing.
You cannot go straight back to
the hotel and fall asleep.
It's impossible, impossible.
So you're awake till 1, 2, 3 am
anyway, aren't you In the?
Speaker 3: night.
Speaker 2: Like more than that
yeah more.
Speaker 1: So Bobby Robson, god
bless him he used to always,
when we came back from Champions
League, would leave after the
game.
He wouldn't keep them another
night.
We'd just get on the plane
charter flight and then fly back
to Newcastle, and then there
would be no training.
The next morning We'd train
maybe at 6 o'clock at night, or
something the next day.
Because he knew the players.
There was no point in staying
in Europe for one more night
when the players are awake all
night.
They would just start to fall
asleep at 5 am, 6 am, and then
they've got to go to the airport
at 9 am.
Speaker 2: So it killed them.
Speaker 1: It absolutely killed
them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why.
And then when we come to your
point that it was very difficult
for a coach that to put his
reputation under the line and
then come and take a team that
he know that it's gonna be, it's
not gonna be easy, yeah, and we
didn't have the team and he
know it.
That now what we have to do,
you know, when we we had an
opportunity for the first time
when we go to afghanistan with
him, his wife also come to me.
This is a funny story, his
wife's like it should be.
Speaker 3: It should be one of
our drinking games every time he
has a funny story like I don't
know what you did to him.
Speaker 2: He's like three
o'clock at night.
He's like, okay, I'm going to
afghanistan.
Like no, you cannot go to
afghanistan because you have a
life insurance.
You cannot go because it's
going to be that it's dangerous
that's the place that you cannot
go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's like I
don't give a fuck about life
insurance life insurance doesn't
work in afghanistan no, for him
it's like no, yeah so he, we
end up in afghanistan and sorry
for those of you who've never
met ashley or never seen ashley,
I'm sure you might go and
Google him.
Ashley, actually looks like a
British parachute regiment
military.
He's got the tattoos, hasn't he
?
And he's got that haircut, so
he actually looks like a soldier
.
Speaker 3: So if he goes to.
Speaker 1: Afghanistan, with his
haircut and his tattoos he
looks exactly like a British
soldier or American soldier, so
it's even more dangerous for
Ashley so anyway so you're
celebrating.
You're celebrating the
victories over India.
What happened after that?
Speaker 2: No, before that, how
we take over.
We were just talking about that
, how we take over to
Afghanistan.
We went to Afghanistan and you
see the team and you were in
shock, the first team when you
were going to play against Qatar
and Kuwait I will come back to
India game, how we did, you know
.
But he seen the team, he's like
wow, no, no way, it's crazy.
But he still, he's like ok, no
problem so me.
Speaker 1: So this is the team
without all of the the
experienced guys, because they
are boycotting.
Speaker 2: They're in a fight
with the federation and he just
took, I think, 25 local boys
from Afghanistan.
We gone to Qatar me and him
before, but their visa didn't
arrive, their ticket didn't
arrive, nothing arrived.
So they arrived in the game one
day before the game.
They come to Qatar one day
before the game.
They come to Qatar one day
before the game and he doesn't
know anybody's name.
We didn't know.
I, like, personally, don't know
who's playing which position
like we don't know.
He's asking where he plays.
I don't know where he plays, I
don't know.
So somehow we put a team
together and I couldn't play
because I was suspended
previously with two yellow cards
, and he was like man.
I cannot believe it.
What should I do?
We lost 8-1.
But 8-0 to him From the pitch
line.
He didn't even one-time move or
do anything.
He was standing 19 minutes
there.
He was there.
And then we see this passion
and everything.
And then the same thing against
Kuwait.
We lost 4-0.
But that was a game-changing
period that once he said I think
it's not going to be enough.
We need to bring now the boys,
the boys that wanted to play for
the team.
And we were just looking, I
don't know like all night.
He from Australia, I was
sitting in Canada, his assistant
is in Thailand, all three of us
looking around the world, all
Afghani boys.
Who was playing?
Speaker 1: professionally.
Speaker 2: This is not
necessarily players who were
born in Afghanistan, but they
have Afghanistan parents parents
, anybody and like we know that
after two, two months we have an
important game against India
and he wanted a good team.
He doesn't want to lose against
India.
Either me I don't want to lose.
Speaker 3: It was personal as
well, wasn't it?
Speaker 2: We go to Australia,
we scout some boys there and
then we call that boys, we
convince a few of them and all
that stuff.
And when they meet and they see
him and finally they realize
that okay.
And we had a lot of training
camps.
We call a lot of boys, they are
not good enough, you send it
back.
Then again, like a lot of you
know hard work, before the india
game we had three, three weeks
camp.
It was a crazy three weeks camp
in ava because nothing is there
, just training, training,
training, training, training.
And we had a lot, I don't know
40, 45 boys around the world
just come for trial with
different levels of fitness and
different type of level.
The way that they want you to
play, you know, and you know
actually the way you want to is,
like, different, because he
want his player.
That's why, like before the
india game, we somehow we
managed to build a team like a
proper team.
It's not the team that we had
before, but he built this team
in very short period of time,
like, I can say, three weeks in
three weeks, in three weeks, the
way he built the team and then
we gone there and we we beat
india aware, we're all aware,
wow wow it was, it was big and
for that's why, like that's why
I was telling you, I will tell
you this that when the boys
realized it that time, that okay
, if he can do for us this, we
can do anything for him gave
them confidence exactly.
So, india, they put us in the
same hotel India team and
Afghanistan team.
Really, I think, normally it was
not allowed, you know, to put
both teams both.
Sorry, this is in Aba or in
Guwahati?
No, in Aba they had a different
team we had a team in.
Guwahati In Guwahati.
Yeah, you have to do it, you
know.
And that time some election was
going on and all that stuff and
ashley was like, of course he
was pissed but he said like,
okay, now I can, I can, I can be
fine, it's fine.
So they had, we had a like I
don't know like restaurant on
the side corner, like dark.
It was like this room that you
can just go and eat and then go
out, but not in the main
restaurant.
But the funny part was that
india staff was eating on the
main restaurant but the boys was
eating on that.
And then one day in the morning
we we gone to to breakfast and
in breakfast table nothing was
there.
Because when you are in the
main restaurant, everything,
everything is ready.
Go eat and just go, you know.
Like a breakfast buffet Like
exactly we went to there, it was
so bad and the boys was, you
know, cannot go talk with Ashley
, and the boys told me and I go
tell them and he didn't realize
it before.
But you see, like what he said,
follow me.
He was first, everybody is
behind him Again.
We were walking.
Speaker 3: He was first,
everybody is behind him again
we're walking in the lobby,
enter in the restaurant.
He said like, sit and eat.
It sounds like the duck and the
ducklings yeah the manager.
Speaker 2: Manager is like no,
no, no, like like, shut up,
you're not gonna talk, go out,
go eat.
So everybody went inside.
We eat, everybody's eating good
food after three days because
we're always going on the site.
Even india team was on the site
.
I don't know what they were
serving for them, I don't know,
but for us the food was not that
good.
You know how you're getting in
main restaurant like pasta and
everything you know.
So the boys was eating happy.
And then the boys see that he
is fighting for us and the
manager, everybody was quite.
He said like my boy's gonna eat
here breakfast, lunch, dinner,
we're not gonna go there,
everybody's gonna eat here.
I don't so like all that stuff.
And he managed.
That's why I say like he fights
for every single thing.
If you see that the boys is not
good, he's not happy with the
small things, he fights for you
yeah if I.
that's why the boys realize,
that's why we see like and then
that was what?
Like small, small things, build
and build and build.
Speaker 3: It also shows that
football, like it's definitely a
physical game but it's also
such a strong mental game, right
, like that part of it, like
from exactly everything you're
saying, like if he managed to
build a team in three, in three
weeks, if the whole you know,
the whole hotel situation
running through Abu Dhabi
airport and all of that played
such an important role in giving
you the rest and all of that.
Like that whole, he tackled
that part of it, the mental part
of it, you know, and then the
physical came along with it.
So what happened on the day
then of the match when you beat
us?
Speaker 2: you know we were
losing in half time.
I remember it was a stupid of
me that I gave a penalty.
He soon nearly scored one zero
we came in, uh, in dressing room
, we thought that.
We thought we thought that I
think your crocodile arms.
But it got.
But yeah, it got like this, but
even like if I was not touching
he was gonna score.
But like I had a chance because
I know that we had Sunil put.
So I told the keepers go there.
I actually told them go there,
but you know, but okay, so we're
in.
In half time we thought that, oh
my god, he's gonna kill us.
But he didn't say nothing.
He said listen guys.
But he didn't say nothing.
He said listen guys, just go
enjoy.
I know that you guys are going
to beat.
You guys are better than them.
Because he believed in us.
You know the way we trained,
the way we did.
And he was so relaxed he said
just go, just go enjoy guys,
just go and play.
I know you guys are going to
beat, trust me, you guys are
going to beat.
And his philosophy, the way he
put the team, the way he want to
, you know he is so how do you
say Analytical Kind of that and
stubborn kind of thing.
I said like I wanted this, it
will work, and the boys was on
the starting little bit shy
because the way he play and we
were like I don't know if it
work, so there was doubt there
was doubt little bit, you know
little bit on the starting.
I'm talking on the start at the
beginning, yeah, yeah, but
slowly, slowly, you know that
trust and everything come
together and we see and then
we're like, wow, you know, this
is one of the best you know,
like we're so comfortable with
the ball without the ball, the
fighting spirit and the fitness
level and everything.
So that's why we gone beat easy
.
Speaker 1: It was, I think, one
of Would you say that's the
greatest moment of yours with
the national team?
Speaker 2: Yeah, to beat India
in India, because we never beat
India in India.
So what was the?
Speaker 1: reaction back home oh
my God crazy People was on the
street.
Speaker 2: Everybody was
celebrating.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Firing their guns in
the air.
Speaker 2: It was crazy.
It was an unbelievable
experience for the boys that
were first time in the national
team Because they never seen
that kind of game in the
Afghanistan, because it's always
intense, and then the game that
actually come back to india for
the first time.
Speaker 3: You know, you wanted
to what was the story y'all was
saving for before?
Speaker 1: is now the time, oh
um yes, so obviously in
afghanistan everyone's
celebrating.
I'm guessing your phone went
hot, did it with messages after
the game and congratulations and
everything?
Did you go back to Afghanistan
after the game, like day after
two days, after a week after Did
you go back?
Speaker 2: We went to the game.
After that, mia and Ashley went
to, because Ashley went, ashley
also went.
Yeah, wow, mia and Ashley went
to, I think after it took over.
I think we went to two times.
Speaker 3: Oh, okay, how was it?
What was your reception?
Speaker 2: It was a good
experience, unbelievable.
They love.
Speaker 1: Ashley.
So, in particular, tell us how
it was after the victory against
India.
Speaker 2: going back to Kabul,
it's a crazy experience because
people like you know how it is.
One game you win people getting
crazy.
You know like people respect
you so much.
Speaker 1: Did you feel it at
the airport landing in Kabul?
Did you immediately as you got
off the plane.
Speaker 2: You know we always
this VVIP treatment.
We never go to checking and all
that.
So we come out on the side, put
on the car from VVIP out
without even like a sound like
out, like the president.
Yeah, just when we come back
again.
It's the same thing, you know.
Speaker 1: Did you have a police
escort?
Speaker 2: Yeah, we have, we
have always Really.
Yeah, this is crazy Even the
security on the side.
Speaker 1: So did you get asked
to go and meet the head of the
country?
I mean, it's not the president
anymore, is it?
But what's?
Speaker 2: the name of the
country, I mean it's not the
president anymore, is it?
But what's the name of the?
I don't even know.
But yeah, we have like people
from them that we meet talk.
Speaker 3: From them as in like
the Taliban.
Yeah, you met the Taliban after
your game.
Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1: They don't run the
country.
Speaker 2: I think they are like
very supportive to be honest,
well they're, they're football
fans yeah, they are.
They are football fans, they
are supportive.
They're, oh my god, they're so
happy, I'm not kidding, they're
happy when they win yeah yeah,
they were like talking like wow,
wow, this is crazy because you
know, like always the game
against India is like tough.
You know, I don't know how it
worked there between them, but I
don't know.
But in Afghanistan, if you ask
any Afghani around the world,
you say like which game you
looking forward to always have,
it's always India against
Afghanistan, football tell us
about Ashley.
Speaker 1: I mean, what was
Ashley's experience of going to
Kabul?
Because that was you said it
was his second time in Kabul, so
obviously he's gone there as
the winning coach.
Yeah, yeah, of course.
So he must be like did they
give him a freedom of Kabul?
Speaker 2: or freedom of the
country.
They gave this, you know, like
a lot of things, a lot, a lot of
things, a black, black turban,
and then they have like a lot
yeah, yeah, and he was with the
short and they gave him this big
piece because we were like.
I always laugh with him and
they're like what is this?
Speaker 1: you cannot wear short
because come on, tell us what
it was like for him, because
obviously you went to the palace
I'm guessing, yeah to meet them
no, we meet like we have a
place.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So you went with
Ashley.
So what was it?
What was Ashley's reaction when
you went?
Obviously you went with him?
Speaker 3: No, I think he
doesn't care to me he's somebody
.
He didn't care, was he not like
a little cautious, worried, no,
no, he's never.
Speaker 2: If he wanted, for
sure he was not going to come.
Speaker 1: That's why I say he's
the one that you can take
anywhere.
You go with us.
He doesn't care If you are the
coach of the Afghan national
team.
That's just beaten your arch
enemy, india.
You can walk anywhere in.
Speaker 2: Afghanistan.
Yeah, you can.
Actually we were just walking
on the street, yeah.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, Brilliant.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I remember
one day in the morning at 6
o'clock he was with the shorts,
he was wearing shorts.
Yeah, man, I'm going to run in
the street.
I said, no, you cannot go in
the shorts, you cannot go.
Let's go to the stadium and run
.
You cannot do it.
I don't know, of course it's
safe, but for him it's like he
can just go Because he's the
most disciplined person I've
seen in my life.
Five o'clock in the morning
he's in the In terms of fitness.
Fitness and discipline.
He's the one that you go in the
morning run, come back, go to
the gym, come back ready before
all the boys are ready.
He's already trained and
everything and ready for
breakfast.
Speaker 1: Sorry to interrupt
you.
So what did I want to know?
I want to be in that room,
amiri.
What did the leaders of
Afghanistan say to Ashley?
You know, obviously,
congratulations.
But what did they say to?
Speaker 2: her, because you must
have been translator correct.
Yeah, whatever you say, we can
do.
Whatever you ask, we can do
Really yeah, but don't yeah but
I'll talk.
Speaker 1: Tell me the bit about
leaving because you were
delayed, when you don't name the
airline, but tell me what
happened.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we were delayed
.
To be honest, like actually,
and he is like on the way
telling me So- you're meeting
the, you've met the lead, or
you're with the leaders.
Speaker 1: You've got a flight
to catch.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then he's like
let's go, let's go, let's go.
It's like we're in the table,
like this, like you can't reject
the guys.
Speaker 2: Yeah and okay,
somehow we finish.
You go to the hotel park and
like it was already late, like
it was late, impossible, you
know to, to take this flight,
and that flight was from outside
, not from afghanistan a
schedule?
Speaker 1: this is a schedule.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then he is
telling me like made no chance,
no chance, I'm going to catch
this flight.
No chance.
I was like I don't know because
I also gave up.
I thought like okay, when we
reach there, they said so you're
getting on the flight as well.
No, I was going after one day
after that.
But I this flight, but it was
impossible.
You know, we never thought that
they're gonna wait for us they
actually they actually stopped
their flight for us no wow this
is some next level celebrity
treatment so they held the plane
on the tarmac until Ashley had
arrived
Speaker 3: late do you?
Know, what like.
After hearing all of this, I
honestly don't feel as bad now
about India's loss.
It seems like a well-deserved
win.
We saw what happened on the day
of the match.
It was really.
It was very bitter for us.
I won't even say bittersweet,
but now that I know your side of
the story, you know what All I
can do is.
You know like.
It's a very inspirational story
to say the least.
And then again, as always, Roy
is showing me the timer, which
is why, unfortunately, we need
to bring this conversation to an
end.
What a shame.
Speaker 1: Can I ask one more
question, of course?
Where would you hope to see
Afghanistan football in 10 years
time, or even five years time?
Is the future bright is it?
Is there hope, do you see?
Sorry, it's a whole bunch of
questions in one.
Do you see a lot more young
Amiri's in when you go back to
Afghanistan now, when there was
very few who envisaged a future
as a professional, professional
football player?
Speaker 2: I hope so, I hope so.
I think that we always like, if
you ask me our country, we
always grow and grow, and grow,
because unfortunately we had a
lot of issues and all that stuff
, but now we got somebody that
we can dream with him you know
with ashley and it is something
that we were so close.
It was eight minutes, you know,
against kuwait.
If we are draw against kuwait,
we are already qualified for
asian cup for the first time.
We never come that close, you
know, with with him.
Of course we can, we can, we
can dream, you know, with him if
he is there.
Uh, it was, it is, it's
possible, and it is going to be
a lot of boys that experiencing
this kind of treatment that it
never happened kind of treatment
.
It's a professionalism, I can
say, the way you bring that set
up that no previous coach ever
brought to the national team,
from GPS to training, to the
facility, everything.
So, yeah, why not?
Speaker 3: I must say this we've
from GPS to training, to the
facility, everything.
So yeah, why not?
I must say this We've had a few
Indian team football players
come here and have these
conversations and we've spoken
about coaches, but nobody has
spoken about their coach with
such high regard, with so much
adoration that it's making all
of us collectively respect him
so much.
So you know it's coming through
.
It's very palpable how you feel
about Ashley Westwood.
Speaker 1: Are you retired, by
the way?
Let's clear that up.
Speaker 2: Are you retired Not?
Speaker 1: yet no right, okay.
Because I did see that you'd
retired and then I saw you
playing in the next game Because
we didn't have anybody.
Speaker 2: So I have to play how
old are you, I'm 34.
Speaker 1: How can you retire at
34?
How?
Speaker 2: old are you?
I'm 34.
How can you retire at 34?
I thought it was a big, big
game.
I can just start my career and
finish my career, and that was a
very good moment, sunil.
Speaker 1: Chetri has just hit
40 and he's retired.
Well, he retired officially at
39 and he's still playing club
football.
Speaker 2: You've got to go to
40.
I think I can just go.
Yeah, my body is good, I'm
feeling good.
Speaker 1: I sincerely body is
good.
I hope I'm feeling good.
Yeah, I sincerely hope you do.
I really.
You know we've had a good laugh
today and I've enjoyed the
conversation, but I must say, um
, I think, as an inspiration for
afghanistan and afghanistan
football, I think you're a
fabulous flag carrier for the
country, thank you.
Speaker 2: Thank you, jay.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3: Yes, thank you and
thank you for sharing all your
funny stories and thank you for
dressing up so well, nobody ever
dresses up this well for our
show they're Dior pyjamas though
.
Speaker 2: Hello Dior pyjamas no
but I didn't expect that it's
like this I dress up or
something.
No, we need people to dress up
better for our shows.
This is great.
Speaker 1: Thank you for that
alright see you next time on
chai football this episode was
recorded at w4 podcast studio by
shiroi demonte, who um paints
his fingernails, and put
together by executive producer
ian carlos, who has a bit of a
middle-aged spread.
Let's call it a muffin top.
It's a good job that.
They're great at what they do w
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