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Becoming sustainably human at work isn't a small undertaking. It often means letting go of systems and behaviors that don't serve us individually or collectively.
So what do we do? As individuals, as groups of folks, as leaders? How do we carve out space for our humanity while making sure we're not the only ones? How do we thrive in the workplace while not imagining we must be superhuman? How do we cultivate spaces that are generative and healing, creative and extraordinary?
I don't have the answers to those questions. And, to be fair, I don't believe one human can EVER have all the answers to those questions. I'm working through those questions every day.
This podcast curates for you a set of folks with an opinion worth listening to and sharing. So join me as I ask people I admire to share their wisdom with you in accessible doses.
Join me on my quest to become sustainably human at work.
Welcome to the quest to become
sustainably human at work.
I'm Liz Wiltsie and I'll be your curator.
My goal with every episode is to
share insight from someone I admire.
That will help you on your own quest.
So I ask you to join me.
Alright everyone, today
I get to welcome Jade T.
Perry, who is someone whose work I have
admired and who has read tarot for me
more than once and it's very exciting.
And I get to have her on the
podcast today so here is a little
bit about her and her work.
The mission of her work as a whole
is to contribute resources, art,
narratives, and experiential learning
opportunities that aid in the holistic
healing processes of Blackfolk, Queer
& Trans Black & Indigenous People of
Color and disabled and/or chronically
ill folks within those communities.
Jade seeks to creatively challenge
secular and sacred spaces
towards greater levels of equity,
justice, and spiritual activism.
Through individual and organizational
consulting, she supports spaces that
are moving onward from "diversity
and inclusion" into building creative
and liberatory praxis at each level.
So Jade, I'm excited to
talk to you about it today.
Yes.
I'm excited to talk to you
and to the folks who are
listening to the podcast today.
So the thing that sticks out for me about
your work is that all the way around
you are building liberatory praxis, and
I know not everyone is super familiar,
what the word "praxis" actually means.
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
So can you talk a little bit about that?
Yes!
So praxis to me is the
applied way of doing a thing.
A practice is something that you make
into a norm, a behavior, a protocol,
something that you make into a norm.
The praxis is kinda like to me, it's
like the meat on the bones, you know,
it's the, how we do what it is that
we do and how we do what it is that
we do with regularity and consistency.
Yeah.
So what does that look like across...
You educate, you consult, you read
tarot, what does that look like
across all of those pieces for you?
Yeah, oh my goodness.
There is no checklist to it.
I wish that there was, honey, so
somebody could give it to me [laughs].
But I will say, for me being a Black Queer
Disabled Femme, I have always, whether
working in institutions or working for
someone else, or working for myself.
I've always had to make a way for my
body, for my mind, for myself, for
my spirit, for my Blackness, for my
queerness, for my disability, for
my chronic illness, I've always had
to self-advocate and self-determine.
And so I think that there's
two parts that come with that.
Number one, having an analysis
of what is what Audre Lorde calls
"the mythical norm" on what is the
dominant norm, what is overculture.
An overculture says that, "Oh our
bodies need to be in one place
for eight hours to do work."
But my disabled body is not doing that
and so I've always had to make a way.
Yes, it's true that when you're
working for someone else you can
get accommodations; however, there
are often a lot of bureaucratic
processes that you have to go
through to get those accommodations.
I've done it before and it has been great
for my life, but I bring that up only to
say that I've always had to make a way.
Liberatory praxis is "What if we
started from the base belief that not
everyone is a cisgendered, straight,
white, Anglo-Saxon, able-bodied man?
What if we made a way of living and
attaining resources and connecting
with each other with that as the
reality, because it is the reality?"
[laughs].
And so I think liberatory praxis is
... It's a myriad of things and it can be
expressed in a myriad of ways, but I think
any praxis that insists on the rights of
those who are marginalized to be centered,
not just tolerated or written in and then
kind of forgotten about, but to be made
central. I think that those are the...
that's the seed of liberatory praxis.
And also just an ongoing analysis and
understanding and critique even, of the
methods, the norms, the ways of working,
or the ways of being, or the ways of
connecting that automatically assume
maleness , cisgenderedness, heterosexual.
So all of these different kind of
pieces that are not the actual norm,
they're just the mythical norm.
So, thank you Audre Lorde for that term.
It's good language [laughs].
[laughs] Audre Lorde, the poet, right?
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Yes.
Good language.
Among many other things, but-
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
There's something that comes with
Audre Lorde, Aimé Césaire, right?
Those people who, poet is
sort of their first thing.
Yeah, their first home.
Yeah, yeah.
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Right.
I know one of the things I wanted to talk
to you about is the way that you've woven
some of that just into your own practice-
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Of the both consulting and some tarot
reading work that you do where it's
very clear that you state what your
boundaries are and that things are fluid.
Can you talk to me about what
that looks like in your life and
maybe lessons for other folks?
Yeah.
Okay.
Oh my goodness.
I would say you don't...
Being a solopreneur, it takes...and
for me, let me actually go back.
I am from, originally from Philadelphia,
Southwest Philadelphia and...
so to put that in context while I grew up
in a beautiful environment and home and
culture, my parents always made sure that
there was pride and joy and excitement in
our culture, in our people, in our family.
I did not grow up with that...
the habitus that said "And here's
how to make a way for yourself in the
world as a Black Queer Disabled Femme."
I just did not get that coming
from Southwest Philadelphia,
I just did not get that.
There is a poem by--speaking of poets--
[laughs].
There's a poem by Lucille Clifton,
actually, that I would love to,
if you will bear with me , I would
love to read because I think this
is actually important context for
the question that you asked me.
Great.
Perfect.
And so it's called, "won't
you celebrate with me."
“[W]on't you celebrate with me / what
I have shaped into / a kind of life?
i had no model.
/ born in babylon / both nonwhite and woman
/ what did i see to be except myself?
/ i made it up / here on this bridge between
/ starshine and clay, / my one hand holding
tight / my other hand; come celebrate
/ with me that everyday / something has
tried to kill me / and has failed.”
And so I love that poem, particularly
in answer to this question.
Because of this piece, this
was written in 1993 I believe.
But because of this piece of "what
did i see to be except myself?"
[laughs].
I think for me the lesson of being a
solopreneur has been: sometimes you have
to make up the liberation that you need.
You can't wait for permission, you
can't wait for permission, right?
And so, at this point, no one's gonna
come and say, “Jade, you know, your body
doesn't have to be seated in one position
for the next eight hours.” I now have
to make up what is the liberatory praxis
that allows me to keep moving or honor
the rhythms and the cycles of my body.
I wish I did that perfectly, but I don't.
But one of the ways I try to do that,
that we talked about before the show,
was just being clear about number one,
the mission of my work, who my work is
for primarily and then what that means.
So those three things.
The mission of my work as read
it's for BIPOC, first and foremost.
And it's for folks who are disabled
and chronically ill within those
communities and so for me, I have
to say, "What would feel honoring to
this community that I'm a part of?"
[laughs].
What would feel honoring?
Things like flexibility, things
like "access intimacy " a term
coined by disability justice
activist Mia Mingus, which really
is just about meeting each other.
Meeting each other outside of a checklist.
"Oh, this is what I need to do
to make this accessible, right?"
But meeting each other kind of
where we are, and what it means
to work with me is to meet me and
my Black Queer Disabled Feminist.
Which means that in my terms
and conditions we will talk
about Spoonie Protocol, right?
What to do when chronic
fatigue has set in.
What are the ways that we can be
flexible, what should you expect?
I've always gotten really positive
feedback about it when people have
seen it, but doing it from this side
of the table it felt very "woo"...
revolutionary at a certain level because,
again, we're so conditioned because
of white supremacy and because of
capitalism, to work and work and work.
And that our very bodies are only
for production, doubly so as a Black
woman, doubly, triply, quadruply so
as a woman who, in many institutions,
would make cents on the dollar.
So I think for me it's moving
and shifting in my own thoughts
and giving myself permission.
So lessons for other people, sometimes
you gotta give yourself permission
to do what it is that you need to do.
Sometimes you will have
to make it up [laughs].
Make it up for yourself.
I will say, though, that one of
the inspirations , particularly
around the thought process of
being a disabled creative and
tarot reader--and this and this and
that-- has been informed by Johanna
Hedva's work in "Sick Woman Theory."
And they also published a disability
writer for folks who do speaking,
which I am those folks [laughs].
So the folks who do speaking and
moving, and there's a beautiful
resource . And little things like that
always remind me that there is a way
that you can insist, that you are,
that your body is centered if you're
always, always, always on the margins.
And so I think it's been healing for
me to take up more space in my own kind
of business and entrepreneurial life.
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
And like you said, sometimes we have to
give ourselves permission but sometimes
there's just something that can crack
something open for so many to see just
an example of it happening in the world.
'Cause like you said, capitalism, white
supremacy culture, they're very real, very
big, and tell us, "No it's not possible,"
and lots of things are possible.
Or, like, everything needs to happen
now and it's like, no [laughs].
That's just simply not true.
It feels like it and we've
been socialized into it, but
someone else benefits from that.
Our bodies don't benefit from that,
our souls, our minds don't benefit from
that, and so we have to interrogate that.
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
That's one of the things that when I first
started any kind of tarot practice, which
is not a long time, about a year for me.
It was a chance to just sit still.
Mm-hmm, yeah [affirmative].
[laughs].
And think about things in terms of
cards and in terms of questions and
these sort of big, broad themes.
But it was a chance to sit still.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
I love tarot for that reason.
I love tarot for that reason.
I really hope that we can normalize
divinations for work decisions, and
pathways, and career and whatnot.
But I love it for that reason.
I think a large part of my work is
thinking about, talking about, trying
to understand, trying to be a good
student of Blackfolks' spirituality, and
within that spiritual paradigm , time
is not even linear to begin with, right?
There are so many different ways
of looking at time and tarot often
reminds me of, you know, we got the
Major Arcana, which is our major time.
That's time outside of time and deep
time, future possibilities and whatnot.
And then we got our minors
that are here and now.
So I really like to escape
western colonial time
whenever I can, however I can.
I was just gifted a beautiful oracle
deck by Rasheedah Phillips and the Black
Quantum Futurism Collective and it's
an oracle deck that's all about time.
And healing the relationship, particularly
for Black women and femmes around
time, around always being rushed or
a time being for someone else it's...
oh my gosh, it's beautiful.
I love the way that it has also
enhanced my tarot practice to
think about time in different ways.
Yeah.
So, Jade, my last question for you
is, what are you grappling with?
Ooh.
What am I grappling with?
What am I grappling with?
Ugh [laughs].
I'm grappling with a world that is slow,
slow to embrace disability justice.
I'm grappling with the reality that
western linear time is how so many of
us have been taught to synchronize.
And so sometimes, even when you suggest,
you know, maybe there's more room
for this, maybe there's more time for
this, maybe there's more spaciousness.
Some people get real scared [laughs].
And real, "Oh my gosh, I don't know
how to synchronize with other people
outside of it being on a clock, on a
deadline, on a timeline with the...."
So it's been really, really...
That's been something interesting
to grapple with as well.
Oh my goodness, what am I grappling with?
So many things!
So many things!
I'm grappling with what it has meant
in this pandemic moment to see...
Around June and July when the protests
began to ramp up again in a new way,
in a new way for the movement...
liberation for Black lives, I'm grappling
with the influx of white folks, and
particularly “well-meaning white folks”,
that came into different spaces and gave
maybe their one-time donations and then
radio silence for the rest of the year.
What do we make of this?
What do we make of folks who, at one
point, believed themselves to be allies
and are now, after one cycle, fatigued
[laughs] of the work of liberatory praxis?
These are the things
that I'm grappling with.
These are the things we're
grappling wit h in 2020 at the
time that we are doing this.
I love podcasts 'cause that...
I feel like people listening can,
like, go in the past and the future.
I love podcasts for that reason, but
where we're situated right now is
in 2020 and is in a global pandemic.
And so I'm wrestling with what
does it mean to do this work in a
global pandemic and in a way that is
honoring to my body when overculture
is still overworking all of us?
And so these are the things
I'm grappling with, these are
the things I'm grappling with.
I hope that other folks are grappling
with these things too [laughs].
I mean, I know I am, right?
Yeah.
Mm-hmmm [affirmative].
I've seen a lot of similar things
and it feels like if it's possible
that the overwork is even more.
Yeah.
I- yes.
Mm-hmm[affirmative].
You would think there would have
been some spaciousness somewhere.
Somewhere, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
And I don't think that's real.
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know.
I think we really have much more
political, and spiritual, and
personal soul searching to do.
Because it's...
I think the place where we are
is not honoring to our bodies,
is not honoring to the bodies of
others and it's not sustainable!
I'm always trying to think about
how do we make these things- How do
we make these things sustainable?
You know?
And that is a lovely place to end.
Thank you, Jade T.
Perry.
[laughs].
Thank you!
I appreciate this so much.
I had a good time [laughs].
Thank you.
If you've enjoyed this episode, please
see the show notes at 4 Needs.work/podcast
and you can see the rest of the
episodes of Sustainably Human at Work.