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On this episode of The Lead On Podcast, Jeff Iorg, president of the SBC Executive Committee, talks with Dr. Evan Lenow, president of the ERLC, about practical resources for pastors — including how to address pressing ethical and cultural issues, navigate difficult conversations, and help Christians think biblically about public life and voting.
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Welcome to the Lead On Podcast. This is Jeff Iorg, the president of the executive committee of the Southern Baptist Convention, continuing our conversation about practical issues related to ministry leadership. For those of you who listen every week, you know that a few weeks ago, I wrote some pastors and asked them a couple of questions. The first question was, what's pressing you right now as a pastor or leader? And the other question was, when other pastors talk to you, what are they telling you is pressing them?
Jeff Iorg:You sent me back a good bit of response and I've been using that response to shake podcasts now for a few weeks and I've done it again today. One of the responses I got back was, hey, Jeff. Can you help me understand how to talk with people about physician assisted suicide? Well, I decided not to necessarily do a whole podcast on that. I actually called that brother back and gave him some specific information that I could help him access about that issue.
Jeff Iorg:But where I accessed the issue was actually at the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission website. I went there, found the resources that they have available on that topic, read through them myself, called the pastor, introduced him to those resources, and was able to get him some specific help he needed on that issue. Well, that made me think, what else can the ERLC help us with? And then I remembered that doctor Evan Lenow has just become the president of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, and I wanted to get a chance to talk to him on the podcast anyway. So, Evan, welcome to the podcast today.
Jeff Iorg:Thank you, Jeff. It's great to join you.
Jeff Iorg:Well, what have these first few months been like for you at the ERLC?
Jeff Iorg:You know, it's really it's really been an encouraging time for the most part. You know, I started my role at the ERLC just a few days before the annual meeting of the Southern Baptist Convention. And, and that's just, you know, one big family reunion every year. And, and so that was a great start. And and I'd say probably the the most encouraging thing I've I've experienced in this whole time is text messages and phone calls and and letters, from people that I know and some people that I don't know.
Jeff Iorg:Just saying that they're praying for me and they appreciate, my leadership and what I'm what I'm trying to do with the ERLC. And, and so that's been that's been really encouraging, in this whole process. And, and so that's, for me, kind of setting the tone for what, we have coming down the road.
Jeff Iorg:You know, as a SBC leader, that's one of the things that is most humbling and most appreciated, and that is the number of people who stop me at meetings, who email me or call me, or otherwise communicate and say, I'm praying for you. I believe in what we're doing together, and I thank you for making the sacrifice of leadership. And I'm with you, and I'm praying for you. And many more people do that than I think most people understand. That kind of support means so much.
Jeff Iorg:It it sure does.
Jeff Iorg:Well, you came into this role because you obviously have a passion for ethics and public issues and helping Christians to navigate those waters. How did you develop that passion? How did you get to where you are today in terms of how God led you along?
Jeff Iorg:It really started my very first semester of seminary. I I showed up at Southeastern Seminary in North Carolina, and my very first semester you know how it goes when you're signing up for classes as a first semester student anywhere at any level of of education. I really just picked a bunch of classes based on what the schedule fit. And and so I and based on what I had to take in order to graduate. And and so I basically signed up for a class called Intro to Christian Ethics that I knew I had to have to graduate.
Jeff Iorg:I did not know the professor. I didn't know anything about the professor. Simply, it was the class fit my schedule. Well, I ended up being in that class with Doctor. Mark Leaderbach, who at that point was in his very first semester as a professor at Southeastern.
Jeff Iorg:And, and I it did not take very long. It just took a few weeks of sitting in that class and realizing these issues impact every aspect of our lives. And and so I started paying attention and I started thinking more deeply about ethics. Ended up think at at the end of that semester thinking, oh, I wanna take another ethics class. And and before long, I look up and I've taken five or six ethics courses and, and I'm I'm working towards my MDiv and, and started thinking about doing a PhD.
Jeff Iorg:And I was really kinda torn. I on one hand, I wanted to do, potentially do a PhD in ethics. On the other hand, I was thinking about a PhD in New Testament. And, because is with all the ethics courses I was taking, was even taking more New Testament and Greek courses. And, and I went and talked with, one of my New Testament professors, who had, you know, talked to me about the possibility of doing PhD with him and talked to him about what the PhD program would look like and what a dissertation would look like and, and got his response.
Jeff Iorg:And then I went and talked to Mark Leaderbach and I said, well, what would a PhD in ethics look like? And and we talked through it and, and I asked myself the question, for my future in ministry, which at that point, I I wasn't I wasn't sure what that was gonna look like. I I had no idea at that point that I would end up as the president of the ERLC. But, but I asked myself the question, which one of these degrees is going to help me address the questions that churches are facing that are the most difficult to get the answers to?
Jeff Iorg:That's good.
Jeff Iorg:And and that answer was easy. And that was to pursue ethics as an academic discipline. And that that's really started the journey. That's what that's how the journey started and never looked back. And and honestly, if I had to do it all over again, I'd do it the same exact way.
Jeff Iorg:Well, you mentioned that you chose this discipline because it was the it it helped answer the pressing questions churches and church leaders were asking.
Jeff Iorg:Yes.
Jeff Iorg:So how did all of that come together to give you such a passion for churches and church leaders as an ethics leader rather than perhaps going into politics or something else?
Jeff Iorg:Yeah. Well, I mean, I grew up in a church, grew up in a Southern Baptist church, felt called to ministry around the age of 16, You know, went went to college and then went on to seminary with the intention of pursuing vocational ministry. I've watched, pastors and and church staff, people care for my family, care for me. My mom was on church staff for almost twenty five years at Bellevue doing women's ministry. And, and I I always had this passion for the church.
Jeff Iorg:And honestly, I that's where I felt like my calling was heading Mhmm. As as I was preparing for ministry. And even though my particular path shifted to more on the academic side of things and ended up, you know, I've taught, at multiple seminaries and, and one of our Baptist colleges, I still always wanted to invest in the church.
Jeff Iorg:Mhmm.
Jeff Iorg:And and so whether that was through my own investment serving in the the church where I was a member at the time, Also preaching. I love to preach. I love to to come alongside and and give pastors a a break for a week. Although sometimes because of the field I I work in, sometimes the I get asked to come and preach on things and I say, kinda just dropped a big bomb in the middle of your church and then I left, you know, after the service for you to have to figure out how to address everything after the fact. But but it's always been about the church.
Jeff Iorg:It's always been a focus on the church. I've I've never done ethics merely as an academic discipline.
Jeff Iorg:Right.
Jeff Iorg:It was always about, alright, how are we going to apply this to the church? And I and honestly, I I never really had this desire to pursue the the politics side of things. That that's not where I wanted to invest my life. I wanted to invest it in serving the church. And and it just so happens to be the way that I've done that for most of my career up to this point is, through training pastors and training church leaders Mhmm.
Jeff Iorg:To to know how to think about these ethical issues, how to respond to them, and how to how to disciple their people to to walk through them.
Jeff Iorg:When it comes to discipling people in these issues, why is the church so vital in educating people on public issues? Why is it perhaps even in some ways more important than the schools, which only work with a select few people, the leaders? And, of course, that's important. I did it for twenty years. You've done it for years.
Jeff Iorg:We get that. But beyond that, why is the church so important as an educational opportunity or an educational resource for people on public issues?
Jeff Iorg:It's because the churches are on the front lines. They're the ones with the feet on the ground doing the work in those communities. You know, if we think about 12 to 13,000,000 Southern Baptists spread across the country, there's no way that a seminary or one of our SBC entities can reach all of those people. It's hard enough for us to reach the 40,000 plus pastors
Jeff Iorg:Right.
Jeff Iorg:That are out there. But it's a whole lot easier to reach those pastors than to reach all 12 to 13,000,000 church members. And so if we can if we can reach those pastors, if we can train those pastors and help them re be resourced to to address these issues in their congregations, then they are they're the ones then working day in and day out with their people who are faced with these questions when their kids go to school and and, you know, school's just starting back and and, you know, child goes to school and all of sudden the the kid last semester, you know, at the at the end of May was a boy, shows up as a girl in August or September, well, that family's not calling the ERLC. They're not calling the executive committee. They're calling their pastor
Jeff Iorg:That's right.
Jeff Iorg:To say, what do I do? What do I tell my child how to respond in this particular situation? And and so that's the that's where the actual confrontation of these issues happens. It happens where we live, and the churches are right in the middle of that. That's why the churches are so important.
Jeff Iorg:I mean, that's why I think your emphasis coming to the presidency of the on churches, resourcing churches, and helping pastors to know how to deal with these issues is so vital, I applaud you for it very much in favor of what you're doing there.
Jeff Iorg:Well, thank you. It it's it's the only way I see to to move forward on a lot of these issues is to make sure that our churches are engaged.
Jeff Iorg:Now when you think about the kind of resources that the ERLC makes available to churches, what are some of those that you could highlight for pastors and other leaders today? Here are some things that are available to you right now to help you on a wide ranging number of issues.
Jeff Iorg:Yeah. So for the last couple of years, the ERLC has been producing what we refer to as our church guides. And so these are these are documents. You can download them for free from our website. And, and so the the way they're set up, they address a particular issue.
Jeff Iorg:So we're about to release one, probably in the next month or so that that's dealing specifically with marriage and family. And so the what the way they're structured is the first kind of third of those is laying out the theological foundation for this particular issue. So when we're dealing with the one on marriage and family, it's it's discussing, well, what does what does scripture say about marriage? And so, obviously, spending a lot of time in Genesis one and two. Then kind of stretching that out to then what does that mean about gender and sexuality within the context of marriage?
Jeff Iorg:And so we lay out the theological foundation there. Usually several principles or guiding principles that help to shape our theology. Then, really, the bulk of the resource at that point is kind of scenarios that we're proposing. These are the types of questions that may come up in your church. These are the way issues may arise in your community.
Jeff Iorg:And if you're faced with this particular question and you're asking, how do I answer it? We then provide some answers.
Jeff Iorg:We
Jeff Iorg:provide options for how to think about those issues or that particular question, how to how to walk your way through it, maybe how to counsel someone in your church, who's dealing with that particular issue.
Jeff Iorg:And these are like scenarios or case studies that would be very much the things that pastors would come up and talk to a person like you about at a meeting or ask you about. These are the kinds of real life issues that you you put in the in the training is the kinds of things people are asking you about.
Jeff Iorg:Yeah. So like an example in that marriage and family guide that will be coming out this fall, you know, there's a question in there. You've got a couple in your church who, the husband has admitted he's got a an addiction to pornography. And the couple is struggling. They're talking about, you know, is divorce the option for them?
Jeff Iorg:You know, how do we work our way through that? And so then we we offer some guidance on here's how you could counsel a couple who's struggling in that in that area. And and, you know, here's what you can say to the husband who's who's got this pornography addiction. Here's what you can say to the wife who's asking questions of is it worth the effort that it's gonna take to to walk our way through this? You know, and and so that's a I mean, those are real life questions.
Jeff Iorg:My my guess would be that virtually every everyone who's listened to this podcast probably knows a scenario like that. Right. And so and so we're we're just trying to offer you real
Jeff Iorg:life these church guides.
Jeff Iorg:Yeah. They're church guides. And then at the end, we'll we give some, you know, the last page or two is other resources. If you want to go more there'll be books, there'll be articles, websites, and other resources. So those are our church guides.
Jeff Iorg:So those are those are really good. We've got about, I think we've got seven of those out already.
Jeff Iorg:Wow.
Jeff Iorg:And the plan is we're doing about four a year. And, and so the marriage and family guide is our is our, next one coming out. We also have on our website, you've already mentioned, erlc.com. You can go to our website, You can search based on issues and topics and pull up articles, white papers, which are gonna be a little bit more in-depth. Kinda don't think of it as an academic research paper, but think of it as we're gonna dig a little bit more deeply into the biblical, theological, and ethical implications of a particular issue.
Jeff Iorg:Right.
Jeff Iorg:We've got short explainers on on issues that are kind of the what you might consider to be the one pager. Like, I just need to know the four real quick things on something. Right. And so all those are on our website. We're also we do our own podcast.
Jeff Iorg:It's great to be on yours. We also do our own podcast, weekly, that sometimes are interviews with with guests. Sometimes they're an opportunity for us to explain a particular issue or or a particular, bill or policy or supreme court case that's come through that affects us. And then and then we even do we have stuff on our social media. You can find us on different social And, media and so one thing we're actually about to launch this fall is I'm gonna be doing, just a weekly three minute video update on what's the ERLC doing, what what are the things that are pressing right now in our culture, and how you can find resources, to address that.
Jeff Iorg:And That's fantastic.
Jeff Iorg:You'll you'll see that type of stuff on our social media platforms like Instagram and Facebook. And, and you'll be able to say, hey, it's something real quick. This is not a listen to the podcast while you're driving. This is a just get a quick scrolling through social media. Give me sixty seconds, a hundred and twenty seconds, and and you'll have access to something that, you need to know.
Jeff Iorg:Well, one of the things I really like about your website is how searchable it is and how easy it is to navigate. And the other thing I like is that it's just in time material that's ready for me right now. One of the challenges of working with pastors is that one is dealing with same sex marriage, another is dealing with physician assisted suicide, another is dealing with issues related to nationalism or political partisanship, another person is dealing with end of life issues, and another person with drug and alcohol addiction. So it's like we don't have a way to know how to meet every one of those needs all the time except make the menu available, and that's what you've done. The menu is available, and people can go there, search whatever issue it is that's pressing them, and get some immediate help in all these different layers that you're describing, whether it's something a little more detailed or technical like a white paper or something as one page, simple as the explainer.
Jeff Iorg:These are the kinds of resources that you have available now and and are constantly 247365 available to pastors to access at any particular point. We're adding that.
Jeff Iorg:Yeah. We're adding to that as well. And and we all we also do some of the same things you've done with this podcast. When people come to us and say, hey, we're dealing with this particular issue. Well, if we haven't dealt with it in full, we'll put it on our list of things to work on.
Jeff Iorg:Mhmm. And, and so that's so we're constantly adding and updating, material that that's gonna be helpful for our churches.
Jeff Iorg:Yes. Well, that's excellent. That's excellent. Alright. Well, pastors have a unique opportunity to preach weekly.
Jeff Iorg:That's great. Who doesn't enjoy that? But what are some other ways that pastors can intentionally share information or communicate about pressing issues with church members? What are some other resources that you have available to them or perhaps some other vehicles or venues they're not thinking about in terms of getting this material to their church members?
Jeff Iorg:Yeah. Well, I think one way you the churches can do this is, just even sharing our ERLC resources. I I was talking to a pastor who, periodically, about once a month on a Wednesday night, will have some materials available from our from the ERLC website on a particular issue and say, you know, he he's kinda gone through and said, I I picked two or three things on a particular issue and I and I make that available. He prints it out and he makes it available for the folks coming, to Wednesday night services or per meeting or something like that. And, and then and then they'll have a discussion about you can teach I'm I'm a big fan of teaching classes, small groups, discipleship classes and taking those, and particularly with leaders, in your church and and helping them understand how to navigate these issues.
Jeff Iorg:Mhmm.
Jeff Iorg:Like, for example, I'm I'm going to a church, here in a couple weeks where, they this would be, I think, my third or fourth time to go to this church. And and they have a they basically call it their volunteer summit. So it is their their small group small group leaders, their volunteers, their deacons, you know, all these types of people that come in. And for the last three or four years now, they've asked me to come in and address a particular ethical issue.
Jeff Iorg:Right.
Jeff Iorg:And so they're bringing in the leadership from their church, the the lay leadership of their church, and and getting them exposure to some of these pressing issues so that they can then turn around and help the people in the church who are walking through it do that. So I think it's a great idea to do some small groups or some leadership training, along those lines. You can you can invite experts in, who are who are addressing this. We have a the UROC has a what we call a research institute, which is made up of subject matter experts. A lot of them are seminary professors or or other experts in in fields that relate to the things that the UROC does.
Jeff Iorg:And and we wanna make those people available too. And so those those folks are spread all over the country. So a lot of times, if we get a request from a church, can say, you know, we've actually got somebody who's only an hour away from you
Jeff Iorg:Right.
Jeff Iorg:That we can connect you with and and they can help you in the walk through this issue or train people on this issue. And so those are just other ways you can think it's not just preaching. Now I do think there's a place in the preaching moment to address these ethical issues.
Jeff Iorg:Absolutely.
Jeff Iorg:And a lot of times that comes as we're applying scripture. So how to how is it that we live out what we what we're preaching?
Jeff Iorg:And every time you encounter one of these issues in scripture, you should preach on it
Jeff Iorg:Absolutely.
Jeff Iorg:And and not not not be hesitant about that. That prophetic word is essential and and required in our world today. But I think what we were both saying is you don't have to build your entire preaching ministry around addressing public issues in order to address them well in preaching and in other ways. One other thing I would strongly suggest that pastors do is that they make us that that they make the ERLC materials available in social media platforms and in the social media links and in other ways to just help the information stay in circulation with people around them. One of the questions that I got asked about on the podcast, some, weeks ago that I I that I addressed was, how do we deal with the torrent of misinformation that's being dumped into our church members' lives every day by so much media?
Jeff Iorg:Well, we're we're not going to stop that. But what we can do is be more proactive about putting out information and making available information and connecting people to information that's trustworthy, that's helpful, that's biblical. And that, I think is another thing that pastors and other church leaders can do as well as preaching and teaching and conferencing and material availability. Just pumping into that social media vein all of the good kind of information we can to help just in some way counter the massive amount of misinformation that's being put out there.
Jeff Iorg:Well, it's the old it's the old idea of how bankers and bank tellers and the Secret Service and everybody train people to spot counterfeit.
Jeff Iorg:Right.
Jeff Iorg:Well, they train them to spot counterfeit bills by getting them so familiar with the real thing
Jeff Iorg:Right.
Jeff Iorg:That what is counterfeit becomes obvious. That's And so that that's exactly you're exactly right. If we we keep feeding good information and good truth, then when our people see the the misinformation and the untruth on whether it's on social media or wherever it is, they they immediately know, hold on just a second. That's that's not true. Right.
Jeff Iorg:And and here's how I know it's not true.
Jeff Iorg:Right. Yeah. Alright. We're coming down closer to the end now. I've got a couple of things I wanna ask you about.
Jeff Iorg:I recently did a podcast on talking about controversial issues or having political conversations with people, and I wanna get you to add something to that for us. I I know that talking about public issues can be controversial. In fact, it it it's sometimes quite emotionally charged to have some of these conversations. We we own that. We know that.
Jeff Iorg:But you and I have these kind of conversations regularly with people. So what are some guidelines or some principles that you've learned that that help you or would help pastors to address these kind of issues in conversation without unnecessary unnecessary conflict? Conflict? I I know know we're we're gonna gonna have some conflict. There's gonna be some tension.
Jeff Iorg:There's gonna be some emotion involved. We get that. But what can you do to make sure that you're not bringing unnecessary conflict to these conversations, and how can you have them in a more healthy fashion?
Jeff Iorg:Yes. A few principles here. First of all, you need to know what you believe on these And and you need to not just have an opinion. Know why you have the opinion. Like, know the the fundamental truth of what you believe on these issues.
Jeff Iorg:Second, know what those who disagree with you believe. Mhmm. And be able to present it in its most favorable light. We we sometimes think, you know, we're out to win an argument and so we kinda we have a tendency to create a straw man. We're gonna give the weakest version of the argument from the other side.
Jeff Iorg:No. Give the strongest one. And if you're not comfortable addressing the strongest one, then you need to go back and do your homework on your own position. And so that that's where we begin. So know what you believe.
Jeff Iorg:Know what those who disagree with you believe. And then I think another place that can help avoid the conflict, another principle, is be able to communicate clearly when your positions move into areas where people of good faith may differ.
Jeff Iorg:Right. And there's a time for some Christian deference
Jeff Iorg:There is. To to
Jeff Iorg:say, we may not see it exactly right, but we can still be brother and sister on this thing. Right.
Jeff Iorg:Go ahead. And and so, I mean, I imagine, you know, you and I get to talking about some things. Eventually, we're gonna come to some things that we might disagree with. But that doesn't mean we're enemies. It simply means we disagree on something.
Jeff Iorg:Right. But but we have all these other things that we agree on. And so I think that that's where we are, I think, culturally right now is we're at a place where there's a tendency to say, if you're not 100% with me, then you're 100% against me. And and that's I think that's what creates the conflict. Right.
Jeff Iorg:When instead, if we're 98% together, then we're 98% together.
Jeff Iorg:Right.
Jeff Iorg:And Right. We may disagree on that 2% and we can have healthy debate over that 2%. And it's actually probably really good for us to do that on occasion. Yes. We are so much more aligned.
Jeff Iorg:We we don't have to be enemies. Right. We we can work together. And that's that's for me the biggest thing that I see right now that creates this conflict. And so I think we as as pastors and leaders need to say, I'm not gonna take that position.
Jeff Iorg:I'm not gonna I'm not gonna say you got to be a 100% with me or you're a 100% against me. And I also think when you encounter people like that, to diffuse that, you say, hold on, let's back up for a second and let's let's find out everything we agree on.
Jeff Iorg:Right.
Jeff Iorg:And I think I think in doing that, it kind of diffuses the situation. And and I'm not saying you're always gonna change that person's mind, but I think if that person is is really, you know, having this conversation in good faith, I think they walk away from that realizing, you know what? We agree on a whole lot more than we disagree on. Right. And and we need to work together on those things that we agree on.
Jeff Iorg:That's a good word. Well, one last question for you. We're coming toward the fall election campaign season. I read some news today, actually, about, some results of elections, in various states. We're coming toward a pretty significant, you know, midterm elections and all of that.
Jeff Iorg:As the campaign season is unfolding, how can pastors best influence Christians on making voting decisions? I mean, should they tell people who to vote for from the pulpit, or should they just not talk about it at all? What what's a healthy way that pastors can influence people as they're making these voting decisions?
Jeff Iorg:Yeah. I I think the first thing is we need to draw those connections between the cultural and political issues within the context of our church. And so we need to be honest with our people of these issues or this this particular political position or stance is going to impact our church. And here's how it's going to impact our church. Therefore, we as both Christians and as citizens have a responsibility to ask the question, do we want that or do we want something different?
Jeff Iorg:And if we want something different, well, even if we want that, you know, we we have a, you know, right to exercise, which is to vote on those particular issues or those particular candidates who are supporting those issues. And so I think we we have to we don't have to shy away from drawing those connections. The other the other thing that I think we need to be aware of, and this is where there's gonna be a difference of opinion amongst
Jeff Iorg:Right.
Jeff Iorg:Pastors, is you need to know what your boundaries are. Like, how far are you willing to go? For me personally, I'm I'm not an advocate of, you know, supporting a candidate from the pulpit. You're not gonna hear me say, you should go vote for such and Now such I'm gonna be more likely let's say there's a some type of ballot initiative or or or some or referendum on a ballot that's issue related. I I'm probably gonna be more likely to say, you know, I would I would encourage you to vote yes on that or I'd encourage you to vote no.
Jeff Iorg:But, you know, some pastors are gonna say, no, I'm I'm willing to support a candidate. And I I think that's you just need to know where your boundaries are. I I remember vividly this is gonna date me a little bit, but but I remember vividly growing up. I grew up at Bellevue Baptist in Memphis. And I remember one Sunday, doctor Rogers was, got to the end of the service.
Jeff Iorg:He preached typical Sunday morning service, got to the end of the service, he made a comment. He said, we have a special guest in the service this morning who had wanted to come up and say a few words, but I've chosen not to do that. But if you see this person, you know, after the service, be sure to go shake their hand and and welcome them to the church. Well, it was Bob Dole.
Jeff Iorg:Okay.
Jeff Iorg:When Bob Dole was running for president.
Jeff Iorg:Right.
Jeff Iorg:And he just I I think he'd he had a campaign stop in Memphis. And, of course, Bellevue was the biggest show in town on Sunday morning. And and he had come and and I think he really wanted sixty seconds from the pulpit at the end of the service. Well, Doctor. Rogers wasn't gonna do that.
Jeff Iorg:But he he didn't shy away from I mean, by the time he got to the end service, every everybody in that sanctuary knew Bob Dole was sitting in Right. In the service. Right. But, but it was it was one of those moments. He knew his limits.
Jeff Iorg:Right.
Jeff Iorg:He knew how hard was get.
Jeff Iorg:Draw the line and what he was willing to do. Yeah.
Jeff Iorg:And I and I think if you communicate that with your church and they know, hey, here's where I'm gonna go. I'm not gonna go farther than that. But if you wanna catch me after the service, you know, we can we can have more conversations about it. I think that's a helpful way to approach it.
Jeff Iorg:Well, for me, it's always been important to say, here are the principles that we believe in. Here are the positions that are clearly Christian, and now you'll have to make a decision as to what candidate best represents that for you. And one of the things that, Evan, that makes it really hard these days is there are very few people in public life who aren't, I'll say it this way, a mixed bag, if you will. There's good and bad in all of them as there is in all of us. And so you have to sometimes make some hard choices about who you're going to support and why.
Jeff Iorg:Absolutely.
Jeff Iorg:Pastors can give guidance in that without feeling like they have to go to the extreme of dictating or mandating what the Christian answer is on every single issue or in every single, elected office. But they can say clearly, here's what the Bible teaches. Here's what we believe. And you've gotta make decisions in light of that and make careful ones as as you go along the way.
Jeff Iorg:Yeah. And and I think we we have to communicate to our people sometimes. We all do this. We prioritize certain issues.
Jeff Iorg:Right.
Jeff Iorg:And and you can and you I think you should be open and honest and say, hey, if if life if the sanctity of life is my number one issue, that's that's going to drive some decisions. And I may make some decisions that are not you know, when it comes to voting.
Jeff Iorg:Right.
Jeff Iorg:I may make some decisions on voting that say, this is not a perfect candidate. And and I've got a lot of things that I disagree with. But I've I've prioritized this issue. And so therefore
Jeff Iorg:Right.
Jeff Iorg:This is what is driving that decision making process.
Jeff Iorg:And that's what I yeah. And that's what I think I was trying to say is that you make a choice where the person may not represent everything you believe or stand for everything that you think is important, but you've prioritized these are my non negotiables. And that's the way I have to go. Well, thank you, brother.
Jeff Iorg:Thank you. It's been great to be with you today.
Jeff Iorg:Yeah. Thanks for being on the podcast today. And thank you for your leadership at the ERLC. And thank you for making these incredibly helpful resources available to pastors, and thank you for your passion and commitment to strengthening churches and pastors along the way and for the difference that's gonna make in the next decade or two of your leadership. Well, thank you for joining me today on the podcast.
Jeff Iorg:We've talked today about the importance of accessing the right kind of materials, putting them in the hands of church members and believers so that they can make the right kind of decisions they need. We've also talked about the importance as a pastor or a church leader of having places that you can go and access resources to deal with some of these pressing issues, and we're fortunate that we have the RLC, particularly their website, which is a menu of learning ready materials for you in the moment of your need. Put it into practice this week. Access these materials as you lead on. Hi.