ArtyParti

ArtyParti Trailer Bonus Episode 33 Season 1

Producing Audio Drama for BBC Radio 4 - Behind the Scenes of William's Castle

Producing Audio Drama for BBC Radio 4 - Behind the Scenes of William's CastleProducing Audio Drama for BBC Radio 4 - Behind the Scenes of William's Castle

00:00
In 1897, a young boy was facing his final days living at the Sunderland Orphan Asylum. He was about to turn 14, and would need to leave the orphanage. He was a choirboy, and during one church service he scribbled down words to the future on the back of an order of service. “Dear friend. Whoever finds this paper, think of William Elliott.”

Over a century later, as the church was being restored, that letter was rediscovered, folded and mouse-bitten, down the back of a church pew. Which set off the community at Seventeen Nineteen in Sunderland, formerly the Holy Trinity Church, to reach back through time and investigate… What happened to William?

This time last year, last April, ‘William’s Castle’ was broadcast on BBC Radio 4. We (as the production company Sister Sounds) held an event, in Seventeen Nineteen in Sunderland, the very place where William hid his letter. And we brought together people involved at various stages of the project to talk about the journey. Our panel was chaired by Chantal Herbert, who is the Founder and Director of Sister Sounds, the Newcastle-based production company behind William’s Castle.

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Creators & Guests

Guest
Chantal Herbert
A Black and queer-led audio production company spotlighting and working with people of the global majority and other marginalised communities.
Producer
Jay Sykes
🎓 Lecturer in Audio, University of Sunderland🎙️ Audio Producer & Writer📻 Vessels of Memory: Glass Ships of Sunderland (Doc) William’s Castle (Drama), BBC Radio 4🎨 Podcast & Events for Creatives @ArtyParti.bsky.social🏳️‍🌈 Queer 🐈‍⬛🐈🐈 Cat-Dad

What is ArtyParti?

🎙️ Podcast | Events | Directory
🎉 Celebrating artists & creatives
🗣️ New episodes every 1st and 3rd Sunday
📍 Based in #Sunderland, UK
🏁 Est. 2015, produced by @JaySykesMedia

Jay Sykes:

On today's ArtyParti.

Lily Daniels:

And we went out for a burger, and he was like, "there's this BBC thing. I'd like to pitch something." And I was like, "how about this incredible story?"

Jay Sykes:

Lily Daniels, who originally came up with the idea as part of work at Sister Sounds.

Christina Berriman Dawson:

When I'm gone, like, what will I be remembered for? I think everybody thinks about that at some point. It's just really poignant. But to hear it here, I think, has been just really powerful.

Jay Sykes:

Christina Berriman Dawson, one of our performers.

Stevie Hardy:

The letter was folded up nice and neatly and stuck in a little gap down the very, very bottom. Taking the timber off and taking the metal off, we found the letter. We opened it up and we read it, and it was 1897.

Jay Sykes:

Stevie Hardy, who originally found William's letter. And me, Jay Sykes, hello. Hey there. Glad you could make it. You've been invited to ArtyParti, celebrating artists and creatives.

Jay Sykes:

My name's Jay, Jay Sykes. I'll be your host. This is a twice monthly podcast that brings artists and creatives together to make connections and celebrate their craft. We chat projects and passions, events and exhibitions, artistic insight and advice. Whether emerging or established, everyone is invited to ArtyParti.

Extract from William's Castle:

The opening section of William's Castle.

Extract from William's Castle:

Our right so I may be remembered, so you may know I am here.

Jay Sykes:

In 1897, a young boy was facing his final days living at the Sunderland Orphan Asylum. He was about to turn 14 and would need to leave the orphanage. He was a choir boy. And during one church service, he scribbled down words to the future on the back of an order of service. "Dear friend, whoever finds this paper, think of William Elliott."

Jay Sykes:

Over a century later, as the church was being restored, that letter was rediscovered, folded up and mouse bitten, down the back of a church pew, which set off the community at Seventeen Nineteen in Sunderland, formerly the Holy Trinity Church, to reach back through time and investigate: What happened to William?

Paige Temperley:

'Remember Me' by Paige Temperley. . Remember me. William, e, double l, I o t t. Remember me. Remember me.

Jay Sykes:

This time last April, William's Castle was broadcast on BBC Radio four. We held a live listening event in 1719 in Sunderland, the very place where William hid his letter. And we brought together people involved at various stages of the project to talk about that journey, who you'll hear for the rest of this episode of Aarti Party. Our panel was chaired by Chantal Herbert, who's the founder and director of Sister Sounds, the Newcastle based production company behind Williams Castle.

Speaker 10:

Thank you very much. I'm just gonna ask everyone to introduce themselves and we'll start from the bottom and work our way down.

Jay Sykes:

Hello. My name is Jay Sykes. I am a lecturer at the University of Sunderland where I specialize in audio drama, documentaries, podcasting, and audio journalism. I am the writer and producer for this audio drama Williams Castle.

Lily Daniels:

My name is still Lily Daniels. I used to be the participation and engagement officer here at seventeen nineteen. I left just in time for all of this to start happening. So thank you. And now I work for Gem Arts in Gator.

Speaker 11:

Hello. My name is Paige Templi. I'm a musician and songwriter. And I was lucky enough to get to write some music for this.

Christina Berriman Dawson:

Hello. I'm Christina Berman Dawson. I'm an actor, and I played Sharon and Aaron.

Stevie Hardy:

I'm Steve Hardy. I was the joinery supervisor who then went on to be the site manager of the project, and I am the one who found Williams Leila. And

Speaker 10:

I am Chantel Herbert and I am the director of Sisters Sounds. I also do various other things as well, for the purpose of today, that is what my job is. And also, I'll be doing the interviewing for today. I'm gonna ask you, Christina, first of all. What does William's story mean to you and how did you get involved in it?

Christina Berriman Dawson:

I saw a shout out on Facebook for some Sunderland Performers as an actor who is committed to building a career as an actor in the region, but I've worked all over the place. Rarely have I worked in Sunderland, but I grew up in Sunderland. So I was like, oh, that was that's for me. That when I realized and heard what the story was, I I I actually auditioned to play Paige, but, they're like, no. She doesn't sound young enough.

Christina Berriman Dawson:

A voice. I got quite an older voice, I think. So yes, so I got Sharon and Erin. It was just the most wonderful, so I couldn't believe it. I'd been here when this played must have about fifteen years ago when it first started to become like an arts venue and there was red carpet and pews and, you know, all of that.

Christina Berriman Dawson:

And so I was I couldn't believe it when they said, you know, this letter's been found. It's just a beautiful, beautiful story. To listen to it today in this space, and thank God, imagine if you could see us listening. It's just mad, isn't it?

Speaker 10:

It's brilliant. Thank you. Stevie?

Stevie Hardy:

I was working on the project early days in our workshop in Pudder. I worked for a historical restoration company as a Carmelite joiner, and we were working on refurbishing and repairing everything that you see around you today from a wall paneling to the columns, the paneling behind us, to the windows. And part of the project was repairing everything that was here so everything came back as it originally was. So when we worked on the project, the church pews was one of the last things to come to our workshop and they were in a really poor state of repair so I had a lot of old historic repairs that to me being a curious person shouldn't be there. It's not very good.

Stevie Hardy:

So in part of taking it off, the letter was folded up nice and neatly and stuck in a little gap down the very, very bottom. Taking the timber off and taking the metal off, we found the letter, we opened it up. Me and my colleague, it was my old apprentice, we opened it up and we read it and it was 1897. We like history, that's why we do our job. We then have to put it in an airbag, then we fetch it back down to the to the project, and we give it to the church's conservation trust, who then took it away and got it repaired and restored by conservation officers.

Stevie Hardy:

I personally thought it was a wind up. Somebody's winding me up by here.

Speaker 8:

If it wasn't for Stevie's sharp eye.

Christina Berriman Dawson:

Because maybe to anyone else, it could have just looked like any old slip of paper.

Speaker 8:

All tattered and browned and covered in decades of grime.

Stevie Hardy:

As we lifted up on the bench, we took off what was hickly, pickly repairs. There was just this little bit of pit, but it looked like it had been hit by the mice. Just took down behind the metal platter and a little bit of old floorboard. All the edges was frayed, ragged. It was well preserved for where it was.

Stevie Hardy:

However, it remained hidden for all of this time because, obviously, a choirboy, to put that bit of paper where it was, he had to get down on his hands and knees and tuck it away.

Jay Sykes:

Conservationists had to remove over a century of dirt and dust.

Christina Berriman Dawson:

Dirt, dust, and layers of wax polish to reveal William's words written in pencil.

Stevie Hardy:

Yeah. A name, William Elliott, Southern Orphanage. The orphanage that I was in was just literally yards away from Holy Trinity Church. In those days, a lot of children didn't write. The first impression is, who is he?

Stevie Hardy:

Why is he in the home? He can read and write. He's educated. But in them days, a lot of children weren't educated, especially at that age. How can he read and write?

Stevie Hardy:

Who's taught them? Where's it come from? Did he learn it in the orphanage? We don't know. People will put their mark on throughout history.

Stevie Hardy:

You'll always find tradesman marks. You'll always find vandalism as we call it nowadays, but it's just people just wanting to be remembered in the future.

Speaker 10:

Can you tell us more about your links to 1719?

Stevie Hardy:

My links to 1719 is I was working on a project for historical restoration company. I was on the project from very early being the general supervisor. About eleven months towards the end of the project, I then became the site manager. So I took over the full project from that point on.

Speaker 12:

And how long did the project last for?

Stevie Hardy:

It was over two, yeah, during because obviously we hit COVID at the same time.

Speaker 10:

When you found the letter, were you thinking about just chucking it or did you like, what made you, like, what made you actually

Stevie Hardy:

I was curious.

Speaker 10:

Okay.

Stevie Hardy:

I was curious. In the historical world, we have to treat everything with respect. So in finding a letter, it then become a very important part of the because it brought a story, it brought the history, which is then developed and it's it's run where it's gone.

Speaker 10:

You know what I find, like, fascinating about it? Know, if if you hadn't been so interested in history or your job, you know, if someone had just, like, been tied up and found that and went, oh, just been it. Bit of rubbish, you know? It's, like, really serendipitous that you found that.

Stevie Hardy:

I was talking to a gentleman a day on on my other project at Stockton. They found a lot of old newspapers, lot of old memorabilia and it's just been so unscathed. A lot of history does disappear through people's laziness laziness. I am a very very curious person so I like to see how things together worked. And I'm not really a book reader, but it actually did open up who was he and me and my partner.

Stevie Hardy:

I think we spent about six hours trying to research him. Who he was? Where did he come from? What he what he did? Where did he go?

Stevie Hardy:

Who was he? What happened to him?

Speaker 10:

It must have been wonderful to then actually find out what happened in the end. Yeah. If you'd even turn that letter to somebody and they've gone, yeah. We're not gonna bother. We've got the letter.

Speaker 10:

That's enough. Put it on the wall.

Stevie Hardy:

But all these projects that do give that give out history, it's like we found people's names upstairs. Today, it's classed as graffiti, but it's people leaving, like, what they want. They want to be remembered. I shouldn't say it, but I have got my name all over there.

Speaker 10:

Oh, Tracy's coming for you. Yeah.

Stevie Hardy:

Mean, we're all sitting here now and I can say my name up there, but nobody knows where it is.

Speaker 10:

I love that. Thank you, Stevie.

Speaker 12:

Thank you. Lily, gonna go to you.

Speaker 10:

What made you want to pitch the story to Jay?

Lily Daniels:

Jay and I were working at the time on a project that was about people making radio dramas. So one of the like themes within the project is that everyone is a storyteller everyone has a story so we were working on a little project that was designed for people to sort of use the inspiration of the space to make little radio dramas that would be part of an archive of stories from the church and we went out for a burger and he was like, this is BBC thing. I'd like to pitch something and I was like, how about this incredible story? As someone who like was trying to get the community engaged in the space, it was like, here's a gift. Here's a present from the past.

Lily Daniels:

And what really appealed to me was the way we uncovered it was very much like it was happening as we went. We found a letter which I can almost quote from heart, I had to read it so many times, but in it he references how long he has. He has two months, two days left and that meant that he was gonna turn 14 in two months and two days and that meant that he would have to leave the orphanage. So you have this strange ticking time bomb in the past. He knows a deadline is coming anxious and you're anxious and you want to know what happens in two months and two days.

Lily Daniels:

So as someone reading it, you're immediately like one of the things about history is you can't imagine. I think we talked about that. You can't. There's always gonna be failed empathy. You can say, I can't imagine.

Lily Daniels:

I can't imagine what you would have been feeling and that's as far as you can go. So for this little he's 13 years old. He's gonna become homeless. His dad died at sea. Some of the only training he's had up to this point is to go and be a sailor and he's just sitting in fear and uncertainty and you're right there with him.

Lily Daniels:

What I'd like to say is that if anyone wants to buy me a burger, there are more. There are so many more. And the great thing about it as well is that in a space like this, it's not about the great and the lordly characters of history. It's about everyone's biggest days in the town would have happened here. Your wedding, your funeral, all of those big anxious moments and the little ones in between where you're like, where am I gonna be in two months and two weeks?

Lily Daniels:

They're all here and I think that I was fine just remembering him as this anxious moment at 14 when we couldn't get past where we went after the orphanage. I was like, yeah, let's just remember that anxiety and that fear that he must have been in and I was like, I was fine to just put it up on the wall and let people fail to imagine what could have happened. But as things unraveled, there were things like, there's an Elliot on the war memorial board, but it's spelt differently and Paige has taught everyone how to spell it. So there were all of these like little clues as things progressed and yeah, we found out what happened to him almost concurrent to his life. Maybe he got on a ship, but no, he's wither miss Elliot, he hasn't got married yet, so it can't be him.

Lily Daniels:

Oh, it could be him and his sister, and then like, oh yes, confirmation, it's him, and he's got married. Oh, and he's been widowed, and he's got married again, and he's got descent. You really feel like the past is happening at the same time and it's incredibly well captured in the script, this idea that time marches alongside you and like I was just speaking to Bill who has gone so I can quote him. The idea that the past haunts you but you haunt the past as well. Seriously, if you want to buy a burger, so many pictures.

Lily Daniels:

Bill is this phenomenal person who will not acknowledge that he's brilliant. He's a natural storyteller and a really generous storyteller. He has his stories now because he's he's going deaf so he's he's got his stories down to like a script and a pattern and a rhythm so that he knows he can tell it and he can tell it well. And you're just like you're on the hook when Bill starts telling a story because he's like, I can't leave until I find out what happens at the end. But he's phenomenal.

Lily Daniels:

He's been looking after the church since '88. He has stuck by it through so many strange circumstances of it being a church, it being a community space now and I think that the church would probably be standing if it wasn't for Bill but it wouldn't be this church, it would be a different space entirely. He has impacted history in like really meaningful ways and he's the kind of person who you want be better, you want to be able to say oh I had a little part in keeping this church standing as well.

Speaker 13:

My name's William Dove, I was born in Raoupe. My father used to send me late sister and I to Hinton Towerworks to get tar for his pitch and creed. I used to see the church, but all you could see was the steeple with a union jack flying. I thought it was a castle.

Lily Daniels:

With a flag in the sky, a castle to his eye from the old horror.

Speaker 8:

Bill is someone very dear to me. He's 96 years old. He's been an absolute pillar of the community and a long term volunteer of the church. He's poured so much love and care into this building over many years. Without him this church wouldn't be anywhere close to what it is today and boy has he got stories to tell.

Speaker 13:

My father died when I was 14. I'd already lost my mother and the family was split up. When I was 15 I was sent to work in a steelworks at Sunderland and that's where I lost my year end. They used to make big water tanks for the ships and I used to have to get inside an old dolly while I did the riveting. My ears used to sing.

Speaker 13:

Oh,

Stevie Hardy:

I

Speaker 13:

don't know, the noise was tremendous. All the time. And I've got it today. Two steam trains. That turn out.

Speaker 13:

I wouldn't be allowed today. Till the doctor came. She told me Guardian, you've got to get that boy out of there. To say sorry, be dead in six months. I was a nervous wreck.

Speaker 13:

They took us out and they sent us to live and work on a farm. I came back to Sunderland in '88. I was in the high rise flats and the first thing I saw was the church. When I came into the church there wasn't a congregation of people but there was a congregation of spiders. They all went when I came in and I've never seen a spider since.

Speaker 13:

And the day I set foot in this church was the day it took hold of me. It wanted that boy of 10 from Rayup and that's how I came back when I was a man. Anyway, I found out 'tis a castle, Williams Castle.

Lily Daniels:

Williams Castle, Williams William's Castle.

Jay Sykes:

Have you come across the letter that was found by Lily Melliot?

Speaker 13:

Yeah. It was found in the quiet pews, and he was a boy from Orphanage. He put on one of the service sheets, please remember me when I've gone and he pushed it down the crack in the choir pews. So I hope they remember me when I've gone.

Lily Daniels:

There's a line in your song page, no, it's it's Hobby's song. Sorry. About I looked after it best I can and that's it like a direct quote that will probably always make me cry because he looked after it the best he could and he did such a good job and he has this real sense of what the space is and what it could be and what it could mean to people. I could say more but I will cry. That's Bill.

Lily Daniels:

Bill's phenomenal and he's not here so we can all acknowledge it because if he was here he'd be like, no I'm not big to be him being not here means that I can say he is the best person I know. Yeah, Tracy is not it. He's the best person we know.

Speaker 10:

That's beautiful. Thank you. I wish he was here so we could say hello, Bill. I want to ask Jay a question now. That leads on nicely.

Speaker 13:

Hello.

Speaker 10:

What made you want to take on this project?

Jay Sykes:

Lily.

Speaker 10:

Lily. Okay. That's strong. That's a strong answer. Burgers.

Speaker 12:

Yeah. Thank you. Well, for

Jay Sykes:

me, it's it's an extension of the point Lily was making as well, this idea of reaching out into the past but not being able to truly know. And at the same time, William in the past is reaching out to the future not knowing what's going to happen. And I think there's something really quite universal in that, these unknown elements in our lives And we're not going to know what's, you know, gonna come in several years time and we might want to find out what happened to our generations before us and like really feel close to them or there's some way that we might all resonate with with William's story. So when making it, it was it was a case of making sure that I do justice to tell William's story, justice to all the real people's voices that we had and also to this space as well. That kept me up at night a lot.

Speaker 10:

You did it though, didn't you? Yeah. And, can you talk us through your Briefly talk us through because I That could be That's a very long process. Could you briefly talk us through the making?

Jay Sykes:

Well, if you would like to enter a drama idea into the BBC, into BBC Radio four, the first step is a 250 word proposal. We worked on that together with Lily. Burger. Burger. Once that happens, then you have a meeting with a commissioner if they like the idea enough for it to get through.

Jay Sykes:

And then after that point, there's a longer proposal including a series of sample scripts. So you'll write out a section of the drama and see if they like it. Then if you get the green light, you're sort of on your own with it from terms of the BBC. So, go. Make it.

Jay Sykes:

And it involved stages of writing the piece. And in terms of writing and working with Lily, I've shared the scripts in draft with you early on. Lily told me that, you know what? The boat scene should be at the beginning, and the letter scene should come after it. And I thought, nah, actually.

Jay Sykes:

So you take on board what you think would work, and you discard what you don't. And sometimes, it's about telling a dramatic story that flows well, just as well as representing the truth. So it's this mixture of truth and fiction. And hopefully, you get the right synergy of that, hence, acknowledging it in the drama, like we're we're we're playing about with these moments for dramatic effect. And then, with the the wonderful help of Tell and Darren, who I should really point out on board the project, who did so much work behind the scenes.

Jay Sykes:

We then do a casting call. That process is run by Polly Thomas in our case, who was our director, who works with the actors. Actors, how was Polly to work with as a director?

Speaker 10:

She's brilliant. Like Polly is, yeah, just an absolute powerhouse. And Darren was the person that pulled a lot of the admin together really, all the contracts and all that kind of stuff. It was having that many people work on a project and we all work really well together. I think I feel like it's quite unusual for that to happen.

Speaker 10:

Mhmm. You know, where like you all work together really well. And and I think it shows in the piece

Jay Sykes:

for sure. I think it's a really difficult script as well because instead of recording scenes and it's mostly in order, there's a lot that you do this line and this line and this line and that's like half of the scene. And then the rest of the scene is in other spaces. So it's not quite as linear as most dramas might be. All our performers did really, really terrifically.

Jay Sykes:

And I'm very, very proud and pleased. As you said earlier, Tal, that these are real Sunderland or real Northeast voices represented on national BBC radio. Yeah.

Speaker 10:

Do know? I was looking up Sunderland in the search bar of BBC Sounds, and that was the only thing that comes up. You know, there's nothing else. I don't think there's been anything that's been made about something that has its own story. You know, they'd probably talk about, like, shipbuilding and stuff, but I don't think there's It's probably within something.

Speaker 10:

But to have something so Northeast is very unusual for a BBC drama and for a drama, really, there probably isn't any apart from that one, I would imagine. This is why I was really, like, grateful to be able to do that because, as you can hear, I'm not from here, but I've lived in the Northeast for twenty years, so I feel way more Northern. It's half my life now I've been here. I can't imagine ever living back down south. It just would never happen.

Speaker 10:

The North is like where I feel like I'm at home. So, yeah, to hear these voices that I hear every day has just been like a real treat. And I think, like, working with someone who's so good at editing as well, mean, it's so well edited. The layers that go into I I make audio, but I haven't done any for a while, and I know how much layering goes into that work. It's a very tiring, finicky project to do, and I I can't believe how it came out.

Speaker 10:

Like, I was the the death scene is just like like mind blowing.

Christina Berriman Dawson:

But all that changed on the night of 12/09/1887.

Speaker 12:

For the top sail. We're leaning stubborn. Water steady.

Christina Berriman Dawson:

Thomas was sailing on the merchant vessel Skyros when it encountered stormy weather and heavy seas off the coast of Denmark.

Speaker 12:

We've got more more than we can carry. 55 tons tons of tingle. That's all that she should own.

Christina Berriman Dawson:

As was often the practice, the captain had allowed the ship to be loaded with more cargo than it could really carry.

Speaker 12:

Lean in, men.

Christina Berriman Dawson:

As a storm

Jay Sykes:

Lean intensified, the ship dipped sharply into a wave.

Speaker 12:

Bravo. Don't lose your footing. I I can't.

Speaker 10:

Thomas.

Christina Berriman Dawson:

Dad, please. Oh, no. Dad.

Speaker 12:

I'm here. I'm alive. Quickly.

Speaker 14:

On ninth December, he washed overboard in the North Sea.

Christina Berriman Dawson:

As the crew rushed to assist the stricken men, they saw that Thomas was desperately clinging to a rope. Only his hands were visible above the water.

Speaker 12:

Hold on, Thomas.

Christina Berriman Dawson:

Thomas. Please.

Speaker 14:

Dad, please. At 34 years, the beloved husband of Sarah E.

Speaker 12:

Elliot. We're throwing the line down. Grab hold. Grab

Christina Berriman Dawson:

Efforts were made to get another line to him, but as they did so On

Speaker 14:

ninth December, washed overboard in the North Sea, at 34 years, the beloved husband of Sarah A. Elliot, deeply lamented by his sorrowing family.

Christina Berriman Dawson:

Both Thomas and the carpenter were drowned. William must have been just four years old. Oh, god. Yeah. Like I said,

Speaker 10:

I know how hard that would be to do, so you did a really good job. Thank you.

Jay Sykes:

But for me, I don't think that the edit would have worked as well if it wasn't for the synergy of the actors' voices and then Paige's and Holly's music. There was a moment where I burst out into tears the first time I dropped your song, that you sent me the minor key version of Remember Me. And that moment, Mickey wakes up from his terrible dreams and, your music comes in, I just oh my goodness. So I should be thanking you very much.

Christina Berriman Dawson:

Thomas's death left William's mother Sarah a widow with young children to look after. William had older and younger siblings Edith, Mary Louisa and Thomas Junior. They were sharing a property in Hendon with another family, a German mariner, his wife and two small children. Sarah was living in just two small rooms of the house with her children. And although she did have a regular income as a dressmaker, the financial pressure were too great.

Christina Berriman Dawson:

Dad? Please. No. Dad.

Speaker 12:

I I can't.

Christina Berriman Dawson:

Hold on. Dad. Hold on.

Speaker 12:

Dad.

Speaker 10:

Well, I'm gonna ask you a question actually, Paige, if you don't mind. What was the songwriting process for the songs and how did it come about?

Speaker 11:

So I first heard about William's letter from Lily. I didn't take her for a burger. She took me for a walk around Hendon. Holly and I were involved in a project with We Make Culture called Songs of the Streets, and the idea was to visit Hendon's community and find out stories about the area and turn them into songs. So Lily took us on a lovely walking tour, and right at the beginning, she said, oh, we found this letter in the church.

Speaker 11:

All the way around, I was listening to the other stories, I kept thinking, I can't wait to ask him more about the letter in the church. We came back here, we we finished it here. And I was like, can I see it? Can you dance more about it? I kind of immediately had that chorus in my head from the first song in the drama, Remember Me, where it kind of spells out his name.

Speaker 11:

I just had this kind of 13 year old voice in my head, almost like in a playground. You know, like that chant, someone and someone sitting in a tree. So, like, that kind of chant was in my head, and I just tried to apply that voice to Remembering William, I suppose. And then maybe a year later, got a message from Jay saying, we're writing this drama and would would like you to write another song for it. And you sent the script over, and there's there's a line in it.

Speaker 11:

The character is William's granddaughter, and she says something about someone somewhere finally loved him. And to me, going back to your your first question, that's kind of what the whole thing means to me is that everyone just wants someone to love them, really. I think that's a really human thing, and that's where my my head kind of immediately went and I wrote the second piece that I did for this called Someone Somewhere.

Extract from William's Castle:

Will I be drafted? Will I be safe? The very thought of a life amongst the waves, the rigging and the heave hollowing and the storms. I feel I how much I am enjoying our time here. How I don't want it to end.

Extract from William's Castle:

I love you, mom.

Paige Temperley:

Sunday, I lay down asleep

Speaker 10:

Thank you. Christina, you were born and raised in the Northeast. Yes. How was it working on a project with so many Northeast voices?

Christina Berriman Dawson:

It's been wonderful. I think just picking up on what you were saying before, there's been so many times in my career where I've had to turn, like, school into school and book into book because we do here a lot of in terms of TV and and any of the the radio stuff I've done before, it's been a Geordie voice, the one to and so to have Sunderland accents and go, oh, can I just relax and just have my own accent? And, you know, it's been absolutely wonderful. So, yes, wonderful just that there's regional voices, also specifically Sunderland, and it feels like there's a shift. It feels like there is a bit of movement because for so long, there has been nothing produced.

Christina Berriman Dawson:

We've we've had receiving houses, you know, in terms of theater and all of that in Sunderland, but in terms of producing work, it's been sparse for a city, and it just feels like this particularly is just really exciting for Sunderland.

Speaker 10:

What were your first thoughts after hearing the drama?

Christina Berriman Dawson:

Oh, it's just incredibly moving. Incredibly moving. I was actually with somebody today randomly who had the tattoo on their arm, Remember Me? And I thought, yeah, yeah, Valeria. Really?

Christina Berriman Dawson:

Yeah, she

Christina Berriman Dawson:

could remember and I thought,

Paige Temperley:

oh gosh.

Speaker 10:

About with Jarmani?

Speaker 12:

Oh, yeah.

Christina Berriman Dawson:

I know, it's really strange that I was

Speaker 10:

in

Speaker 10:

your

Christina Berriman Dawson:

And

Speaker 10:

and that was my old tunes.

Christina Berriman Dawson:

I know. It's it's a bit bizarre.

Christina Berriman Dawson:

That's really bizarre.

Christina Berriman Dawson:

I think that that is a thing, you know, we

Christina Berriman Dawson:

go like, I'm gone, like,

Christina Berriman Dawson:

what will I be remembered for? It's it is a thing. Everybody thinks about that at some point. It's just really poignant and a beautiful story, and I listened to it with my mom. She just loved it.

Christina Berriman Dawson:

Do know what I mean? But to hear it here, think, has been just really powerful.

Speaker 10:

Mhmm. Thank you. This is a question open to all. I'll start with you, Stevie, if that's okay. I think a lot of us have a yearning to be remembered.

Speaker 10:

How would you like to be remembered? And if you had a choice, how would you want your memory to be kept alive?

Stevie Hardy:

Ask me partner. Would you like to be remembered? Probably your pain on the backside, is my honest. More for me, craftsmanship is my honest answer. Thomas Bain sixteen.

Stevie Hardy:

I've always put my name on everything I've ever made.

Speaker 10:

Good graffiti artist.

Stevie Hardy:

Yeah. Graffiti artist. So Thomas Bain sixteen. I'm 52 today. Not today but at this morning time I'm 52.

Stevie Hardy:

So for me everything I've ever done I've always been reliable and I've always turned out a quality product, quality job. So for me it's been what I am today, reliable, quality. Everything I do, it's pride in my work.

Speaker 10:

That's a really nice way to be remembered.

Stevie Hardy:

It is. I've personally worked all over the world as well. So my name's in Ohio, my name's in France. But that's how I want to be remembered. I want to be remembered as reliable in a man who turned out a good quality job.

Speaker 10:

And found William's letter.

Stevie Hardy:

Yeah. Yeah. It's like as well sitting here now, it's when I came down onto the church, it was empty. It was derelict. There was no floors.

Stevie Hardy:

There was no wall paneling. The windows was all my responsibility, so everything you see around you now, even the lady chapel there, I refurbished that and I had to put that back together without any plans with just purely off photographs. So, yeah, that's how I want to be remembered.

Speaker 10:

Thank you so much. Christina? I think for

Christina Berriman Dawson:

me it's this work. It's work where you have to represent somebody who's a real person. You have to hold that person's voice like gold, and it's a massive responsibility. Like, I've done a lot of work with theatre companies and things like that where I've played real people to try and find the essence the essence of somebody, not like mimicking them, but you're just trying to find the heart of them. And I think the work that I've done with communities or just giving people a voice as an actor, giving somebody else a voice if maybe they haven't been able to have a voice themselves like like William.

Speaker 10:

Would anyone like the question again? Yes, please. Thank you. Okay. I think a lot of us have a yearning to be remembered.

Speaker 10:

How would you like to be remembered? And if you had a choice, how would you want your memory to be kept alive?

Speaker 11:

It's a funny one, you know, like, I think if you do, like, a that you're passionate about, I think people expect you to talk about that. And don't get us wrong, like I'm I'm passionate about music, but the most important thing in my life is people. I think that's really similar to William. And that they all I want people to say about me is she was a canny kid. She was there she was there when I needed her, and I'll be I'll be happy enough for that, I think.

Speaker 10:

How sweet.

Lily Daniels:

Have almost no idea, idea but I think it would be really nice to be remembered as someone who was like Stevie and held on to something precious rather than casting it aside but I also think that there are like formal ways of remembering people, right, like gravestones and Remembrance Day and all those things and there's how William is remembered which is everyone who reads his letter at least kind of feels like they know him. They have their own personal idea of who he is and the and the voices that brought him to life did such a good job, but that's not my William. My William is different and your William is different and like however we get remembered is kind of up to it's up to the future. Remember me but I have no idea how.

Jay Sykes:

My lovely fiance who sat over there, Costi, tells me that you should work to live, not live to work. And I disagreed with him. I like, no. I love making audio and that's where I want to be remembered. That's where I want to find myself.

Jay Sykes:

So my answer is twofold. I want to be remembered for telling people's stories well, hopefully. Hopefully, making tens of thousand people around the country cry. That's what I want to do. But also just, I want to be remembered for being a loving person as much as I can be.

Jay Sykes:

Thank you.

Speaker 10:

Thank you very much. I would like to be remembered as someone who, like Jay, just give people a voice, make people's lives better, especially people that aren't able, you know, they might have a disability, they might come from like a lower socioeconomic background where they don't get to do certain things. People of color, queer people, people that are the most marginalized, that for me is where I really want to amplify the voices of people. That's pretty much what I put in my pitch to the BBC when I wanted to get the funding and it was specifically to amplify the voices of people from the Northeast. I've heard enough southern voices, let alone my own.

Speaker 10:

So yeah, that I want to be remembered as someone like that, just giving people a platform to be who they are and be authentically who they are at all times.

Jay Sykes:

And, Tal, throughout all of the work that you've been doing, that I've known you for with Sister Shack as well as with Sister Sounds, you really, really do have come to some of your events in the past. And the people that you bring together and the support you give to people is just incredible. And I'm really pleased that I mean, your first Sister Sands production for BBC Radio four, one of many more.

Speaker 10:

Thank you.

Speaker 8:

Thank you.

Paige Temperley:

Remember me. Remember me. William, e double l I o t t. Remember me. Remember me.

Paige Temperley:

I leave a letter in a pew for all to see. So please.

Jay Sykes:

There are so many people to thank for this episode of Arty Party and for William's Castle as a whole. Firstly, Tracy Minnie, Lily Daniels and the whole of the team at seventeen nineteen, past and present for being so generous with your space, your time, your stories. John Knox, who recorded the audio of our panel. The community researchers who delved and dived deeply into finding out what happened to William, especially to Sharon Vincent, who kindly shared her research with me. Paige Temperley and Holly Rees, the two amazing singer songwriters who performed live at the event and whose music was so integral to the story of the drama.

Jay Sykes:

All of the actors, Christina Berryman Dawson who you heard from, but also Charlie Hardwick, Becky Lindsay, Ken Smithson, Mickey Hodgson, Lyndon Trenum, and Daniel James. To the rest of the crew, renowned radio drama director Polly Thomas, production manager Darren Spruce, and our executive producer, Eloise Whitmore. They were all a joy to work with. And to Lizzie Nixon and the Sunderland Music Hub's Sunderland Youth Choir, who brought new life to William's words through their rendition of Page Temperley's original song, Remember Me.

Paige Temperley:

Remember me. Remember me. William, a double l I o t t. Remember me. Remember me.

Paige Temperley:

I leave a letter in the p for all to see.

Jay Sykes:

To Chantal Hobart for your panel hosting, and of course, without Sister Sounds, this drama would not have been possible. And lastly, to William Dove, who as you heard dedicated so many years of his life to looking after Holy Trinity Church as best as he could. Arty Party is made possible thanks to the generous support of our five Patreon backers. They are watercolor artist Daniel Chamberlain, DJ and founder of Sister Shack and Sister Sounds Chantal Herbert, photographic artist Joe Howell, mixed media artist Angela Sandwyth, and visual artist Stephanie Smith. If you would like to join them and gain exclusive perks including free entry to all of our upcoming events, you can head to patreon.com/artyparty.

Jay Sykes:

That's arty with a y, party with an I. Y I. And speaking of those upcoming events, we do have two in the calendar at the moment. And if you're in or around Sunderland, I would love to see you there. On Wednesday, April, we have our next Sunderland Scratch, where scriptwriters and screenwriters are invited to bring their work in progress to be read script in hand.

Jay Sykes:

And then on Friday, May, is our next show and tell where artists and creatives of any discipline are invited to bring their work, finished or unfinished, to discuss and celebrate their craft. Both events are at 06:00 on Port Independent. Tickets are at Fiverr or free, of course, if you support us on Patreon. My name's Jay Sykes, and thank you for joining today's arty party.