Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
In this cozy and candid episode, Rachel is joined by writer Julie—author of Like a Normal Person—and Allison, creator of the Dare to Be newsletter. Together, they dive into the realities of sober creativity, from writing memoirs and navigating vulnerability to finding joy in kitchen gadgets and everyday rituals. It’s an honest, uplifting look at what it means to share your story and stay grounded while living—and creating—in sobriety.
Thank you to Allison Deraney and Julie Fontes for gracing Sober Banter with your insights, wisdom, and hope. Please visit their newsletters; they’re wonderful writers with even more valuable content to share in their weekly publications!
Thank you to Allison Deraney and Julie Fontes for gracing Sober Banter with your insights, wisdom, and hope. Please visit their newsletters; they’re wonderful writers with even more valuable content to share in their weekly publications!
Click this link for DARE TO BE by Allison Deraney
💌 Subscribe to Sober Banter so you never miss an episode.
💬 Leave a review or a comment—your thoughts mean the world and help others find us.
🔄 Share this episode with someone who might need it.
📱 Follow us on Instagram: @soberbanterpodcast
☕️ Support the show:
Buy us a coffee at https://www.buymeacoffee.com/soberbanter
Donate at https://www.venmo.com/u/Soberbanter
Do you have questions or feedback or want to be a guest? Hit us up at soberbanter.com or email Rachel at rachel@soberbanter.com
- (00:00) - Introduction and Ice Breakers
- (02:14) - Being a Sober Creator
- (05:39) - social media and similar platforms
- (09:32) - Imposter syndrome in sobriety
- (13:17) - High-bottom drunks
- (19:55) - Sober Travels & Dry January
- (22:51) - Marrying your drinking buddy
- (26:58) - Graffitied books
- (30:35) - Evolving
- (38:18) - Transparency comes at a price.
- (44:54) - Fainting Goats
Creators and Guests
Guest
What is Sober Banter?
Sober Banter, a podcast about life without alcohol, is real, relatable, and never boring. Hosts Rachel and Colin share honest conversations about sobriety with humor, heart, and a touch of chaos.
Rachel (00:00:06):
Welcome to Sober Banter.
Rachel (00:00:07):
It's a girl's banter because Colin is not here.
Rachel (00:00:10):
We're going to go throwback and open with an icebreaker.
Rachel (00:00:14):
And Allison, I guess you have one that you can start to kick off.
Julie (00:00:18):
I do.
Julie (00:00:18):
Like what is the one thing in your kitchen that you can't live without right now?
Julie (00:00:24):
Because every meal that I make has to be in my air fryer.
Julie (00:00:29):
And it's like,
Julie (00:00:31):
it's gotten to the point where my family's like,
Julie (00:00:33):
are you going to ever use the stove?
Julie (00:00:35):
So what are you doing in your kitchen?
Julie (00:00:40):
Julie, you go first.
Allison (00:00:42):
I guess like a big pot because I like to make a soup that will last me for a few
Allison (00:00:49):
days because then I don't have to think about what I'm going to cook for the next
Allison (00:00:54):
couple of days.
Allison (00:00:54):
Is it like I'm living off of leftovers?
Rachel (00:00:58):
Yeah.
Rachel (00:00:59):
Yeah.
Rachel (00:00:59):
Like spaghetti.
Rachel (00:01:00):
Yeah.
Rachel (00:01:00):
My spaghetti pot.
Rachel (00:01:01):
That's pretty much...
Rachel (00:01:03):
That would be my,
Rachel (00:01:05):
I mean,
Rachel (00:01:05):
I used to be so into cooking in early sobriety and then the autoimmune,
Rachel (00:01:11):
I just,
Rachel (00:01:11):
it's been,
Rachel (00:01:11):
I want easy and I don't want to fight with my five-year-old.
Rachel (00:01:17):
So I feel like embarrassed that I'm like, no, I am not.
Rachel (00:01:22):
And I used to do the pressure cooker when I did Whole30,
Rachel (00:01:26):
which is I did before,
Rachel (00:01:28):
right before I got sober.
Rachel (00:01:30):
I was so scared of the pressure cooker.
Rachel (00:01:32):
Like I had the, and I love it.
Rachel (00:01:35):
The food that comes out of it is amazing.
Allison (00:01:37):
Yeah.
Allison (00:01:37):
Are you afraid it's going to go off like a bomb in your kitchen?
Rachel (00:01:39):
I used a spatula to use to twist the little thing.
Rachel (00:01:44):
And I'm like, one, two, three, run away.
Rachel (00:01:47):
And it's like, shh.
Rachel (00:01:47):
And I'm like, oh God, don't burn the cabinets.
Rachel (00:01:49):
And it is a whole ordeal.
Rachel (00:01:51):
I can barely pop a can of biscuits without like...
Rachel (00:01:56):
I'm just, I'm sad.
Rachel (00:02:00):
I feel that.
Rachel (00:02:01):
I like fast,
Rachel (00:02:03):
edible,
Rachel (00:02:03):
apples,
Rachel (00:02:04):
grapes,
Rachel (00:02:05):
anything that doesn't require a lot of go bars,
Rachel (00:02:08):
protein bars,
Rachel (00:02:09):
love them.
Rachel (00:02:11):
In the pantry.
Rachel (00:02:12):
So I thought this might be a cool time and space to talking about what it's like being a
Rachel (00:02:20):
So I thought you guys might have some insights or some things you might want to share.
Rachel (00:02:27):
Maybe a thing you might want your readers to know.
Julie (00:02:31):
From the jump,
Julie (00:02:32):
as far as sobriety is concerned,
Julie (00:02:35):
the biggest benefit,
Julie (00:02:36):
and it still is the biggest benefit to me,
Julie (00:02:38):
is that mourning.
Julie (00:02:40):
Just that feeling like actually being happy to wake up and not feeling like shit all the time.
Julie (00:02:47):
And just feeling like you have enough of yourself to give to anyone who needs it.
Julie (00:02:52):
You know, dropping all that shame, the hangovers, all of that obvious stuff.
Julie (00:02:57):
But more than that is like, now my mornings are just, that's my most creative time.
Julie (00:03:04):
And what I struggle with now is like,
Julie (00:03:07):
so that's the time where I do my reading and I do some of my writing.
Julie (00:03:12):
But I feel as though I've gotten myself into this habit of,
Julie (00:03:17):
thinking I can only do it under great certain conditions, like by myself insult.
Julie (00:03:25):
Like I,
Julie (00:03:25):
I,
Julie (00:03:26):
I struggle with the days where I can't have those two or three hours to myself in
Julie (00:03:31):
the morning.
Julie (00:03:31):
And I wish I was a little, I guess I wish I was a little more flexible with how I create.
Julie (00:03:42):
And from a sobriety standpoint, I think,
Julie (00:03:45):
That has a lot to do with the compulsion tendencies I have.
Allison (00:03:50):
I feel like it turns into this whole whack-a-mole thing.
Allison (00:03:55):
And I'm at a place in my newsletter where I've realized I keep adding stuff and not
Allison (00:04:09):
giving myself,
Allison (00:04:10):
like taking anything away.
Allison (00:04:12):
So I keep piling stuff on my own plate.
Allison (00:04:17):
which I'm very excited about,
Allison (00:04:20):
but also I feel like the behavior might be a little bit compulsive with everything
Allison (00:04:26):
that I feel my day with when I need to make time to rest.
Allison (00:04:31):
And me and Rosemary, we were talking about it last week.
Allison (00:04:35):
We had a conversation about just being a creator who shares on social media
Allison (00:04:45):
as a sober person like are you really sober because there's there is an element of
Allison (00:04:54):
it which uh like you're hitting those dopamine you know receptors in a way that it
Allison (00:05:03):
feels a little bit unhealthy um especially like
Allison (00:05:10):
with the feedback where you can get like, like hundreds of likes or whatever.
Allison (00:05:14):
It's like, Oh yeah.
Allison (00:05:15):
Like what, but trying to find the balance in being a creator who shares is such a challenge.
Allison (00:05:25):
And especially if you have like another job or kids or everything,
Allison (00:05:30):
um,
Allison (00:05:30):
uh,
Allison (00:05:32):
it can become something that you really
Allison (00:05:35):
are once again hurting yourself with.
Allison (00:05:38):
You know what I mean?
Rachel (00:05:39):
Because there's just so many elements to it.
Rachel (00:05:44):
Even the social media standpoint,
Rachel (00:05:45):
you have to get everything out there and you got to have a Facebook and you got to
Rachel (00:05:48):
have an Instagram.
Rachel (00:05:49):
It's not as simple as just...
Rachel (00:05:52):
writing,
Rachel (00:05:54):
pressing publish and walking away,
Rachel (00:05:57):
or maybe for some it is,
Rachel (00:05:58):
at least I know when it comes to the prep work of the podcast,
Rachel (00:06:04):
I've tried to put it into a newsletter and it takes a lot of work.
Rachel (00:06:07):
And then I'm picky about, I don't like this template.
Rachel (00:06:10):
I'm going to do a new template.
Rachel (00:06:11):
And then I don't like that template.
Rachel (00:06:12):
I don't like the font.
Rachel (00:06:13):
And then I'm sitting there and I'm like, what am I doing this all for?
Rachel (00:06:18):
Like,
Rachel (00:06:19):
But it all matters.
Rachel (00:06:21):
Yeah.
Rachel (00:06:21):
Because it's part of like what you're presenting.
Rachel (00:06:25):
So do you have like a preferred social media platform?
Rachel (00:06:28):
I am.
Julie (00:06:29):
Me, I have never once been on X or Twitter.
Julie (00:06:34):
I don't have an account.
Julie (00:06:35):
Like I've never been.
Julie (00:06:35):
I don't even know what it looks like.
Julie (00:06:38):
Facebook.
Julie (00:06:40):
I mean, I have a Facebook.
Julie (00:06:41):
I have an Instagram.
Julie (00:06:44):
I've gotten...
Julie (00:06:45):
To the point where I sort of hide it on my phone.
Julie (00:06:47):
Like I have all these guardrails with it.
Julie (00:06:49):
But I've never used those two.
Julie (00:06:52):
Not never.
Julie (00:06:53):
I didn't rely on those two for my writing.
Julie (00:06:56):
I, from time to time, would, on the story, like throw a link to the Substack.
Julie (00:07:00):
But I'm sort of,
Julie (00:07:02):
from a creative perspective,
Julie (00:07:04):
as far as getting my newsletter out and getting my writing out,
Julie (00:07:06):
I'm really doubling down on Substack.
Julie (00:07:08):
It's kind of the only thing I'm doing.
Julie (00:07:12):
I am part of like smaller little writing groups.
Rachel (00:07:17):
which is really helpful.
Rachel (00:07:19):
Did you find those through Substack or where did you go find the writing groups?
Julie (00:07:23):
A couple of them are through like some other writers on Substack who,
Julie (00:07:28):
like I offer a Zoom for paid subscribers.
Julie (00:07:31):
I just started it back up.
Julie (00:07:33):
I wasn't doing it,
Julie (00:07:35):
but it's sort of morphed into this like way that we're all sharing our writing and
Julie (00:07:41):
this sort of conversation,
Julie (00:07:42):
like the angst of like being a creator and how hard we can be on ourselves.
Julie (00:07:46):
And then I was, yeah, I also participated in, do you know Ann Dowsett Johnston?
Julie (00:07:53):
She wrote Drink, Canadian Riders.
Julie (00:07:58):
She offers a writing community.
Julie (00:08:01):
It's not free, but it's year long in two segments.
Julie (00:08:06):
And it starts with writing your recovery.
Julie (00:08:08):
So it's all primarily women in recovery.
Julie (00:08:12):
And then there's like a subset,
Julie (00:08:13):
like once you get through that,
Julie (00:08:14):
it's writing your discovery and it's kind of like the next step.
Julie (00:08:17):
Yeah, it's really cool.
Julie (00:08:20):
I'd started that even before the sub stack.
Julie (00:08:22):
So that's where I feel most comfortable writing.
Julie (00:08:27):
But to Julie's point, like it is definitely reminiscent of, I mean, there's addiction there.
Julie (00:08:35):
As for me, there's that pull and that, like when I think about
Julie (00:08:42):
how I knew it was time to stop drinking.
Julie (00:08:45):
It was because of how much brain space it took up.
Julie (00:08:49):
And if I'm going to be honest and say like,
Julie (00:08:51):
how much brain space is my Substack taking up?
Julie (00:08:54):
It's just as much as the drinking.
Julie (00:08:58):
So it's, it's, I don't know.
Julie (00:09:00):
It's,
Julie (00:09:01):
it's more good than bad,
Julie (00:09:02):
but I will say something that's really cute though,
Julie (00:09:05):
that I caught my daughter doing recently.
Julie (00:09:07):
And I am not calling her out on it cause she'll stop.
Julie (00:09:10):
But she's like,
Julie (00:09:11):
on her own little laptop, writing stories.
Julie (00:09:13):
And she's 11 and it's super cute.
Julie (00:09:17):
And she's like, mom, you want to hear me?
Julie (00:09:18):
It's all fiction.
Julie (00:09:19):
She's like, it's realistic fiction, mom.
Julie (00:09:21):
I'm like, all right.
Julie (00:09:21):
So she'll like start and she's got some good ideas.
Julie (00:09:25):
So, so like when I feel that mom guilt of like, oh, I'm too focused on this.
Julie (00:09:30):
And I'm like, look at that though.
Julie (00:09:31):
Like that's, that's cool.
Rachel (00:09:32):
How did you feel in the managing of like publishing your book?
Rachel (00:09:37):
Yeah.
Allison (00:09:38):
In the creation of the book,
Allison (00:09:40):
I had like the cover designer and I had a development,
Allison (00:09:43):
developmental editor and then a line editor.
Allison (00:09:47):
But after that, it was all like I've done every single thing.
Allison (00:09:52):
So, uh, I feel like I've learned so many new skills, um,
Allison (00:10:01):
And it's all because of sobriety.
Allison (00:10:05):
Like I would have never done this.
Allison (00:10:09):
But it has felt like very lonely as well.
Allison (00:10:13):
Like,
Allison (00:10:14):
of course,
Allison (00:10:14):
I have the support of all of my readers,
Allison (00:10:17):
but people who traditionally publish have,
Allison (00:10:20):
you know,
Allison (00:10:20):
a publisher that they know is like it has seen their story,
Allison (00:10:28):
their book and said,
Allison (00:10:30):
this is good enough for us to sell.
Allison (00:10:32):
And for me, I had to.
Allison (00:10:36):
I'm the one who has to tell myself, like, this is good enough to to
Allison (00:10:42):
to sell, to put out in the world.
Allison (00:10:45):
And I still have to remind myself every day that this isn't ridiculous because
Allison (00:10:53):
there's a part of,
Allison (00:10:54):
there's like a voice that says,
Allison (00:10:56):
this is like,
Allison (00:10:57):
who do you think you are?
Allison (00:11:00):
You think that your story is important?
Allison (00:11:02):
You're just another white lady who got sober in her forties, like big fucking deal.
Allison (00:11:09):
But
Allison (00:11:11):
But I feel like part of some of the amazing growth that happens when you make
Allison (00:11:20):
choices to live a better life.
Allison (00:11:22):
And I think it's so important.
Allison (00:11:27):
But it's like those two voices are always at war with each other.
Allison (00:11:31):
And then with the podcast,
Allison (00:11:34):
because i started decided to start my own podcast i've never felt more imposter
Allison (00:11:40):
syndrome than like the first time i when i recorded my um first episode with
Allison (00:11:47):
allison like that whole day after i was just thinking who don't like what who who
Allison (00:11:52):
do who do i think i am like like i'm a person out i don't know um
Rachel (00:12:00):
like Dr. Phil, but just like, get real.
Rachel (00:12:06):
Catchphrase.
Allison (00:12:10):
Like, be normal.
Allison (00:12:11):
I don't know.
Allison (00:12:14):
I don't even know.
Allison (00:12:14):
I don't even watch Dr. Phil, but
Allison (00:12:17):
Yeah, he's too mean.
Allison (00:12:17):
I can't watch him.
Rachel (00:12:19):
I was like,
Rachel (00:12:20):
I think that's his catchphrase,
Rachel (00:12:21):
and I know that because the sports radio I listen to,
Rachel (00:12:23):
they do a fake version of him,
Rachel (00:12:25):
and it's very funny.
Rachel (00:12:27):
Be real.
Rachel (00:12:28):
Be real.
Rachel (00:12:28):
Or get real, I think.
Rachel (00:12:30):
He's like, about your addiction, get real.
Rachel (00:12:33):
I don't know.
Rachel (00:12:35):
It's very weird.
Rachel (00:12:37):
I feel like...
Allison (00:12:41):
doing these creative things and putting them out there is,
Allison (00:12:47):
I mean,
Allison (00:12:48):
it's important for us to just like gain back our,
Allison (00:12:53):
our sense of self.
Allison (00:12:54):
And it's important for other people to see it.
Allison (00:12:56):
I feel like, um, you know, I agree.
Allison (00:13:03):
And like the, the, like more we can like tamp down that voice that says like,
Allison (00:13:10):
Like, who are you?
Allison (00:13:12):
Get real.
Allison (00:13:14):
I mean,
Julie (00:13:16):
Julie,
Julie (00:13:17):
I have to say to your voice in the sober community,
Julie (00:13:20):
like you're doing something that I don't think a lot of folks are doing.
Julie (00:13:26):
And that's like really doubling down on the fact that you don't need to have a
Julie (00:13:30):
problem to get sober.
Julie (00:13:31):
Like you've in, I think people need to hear that.
Julie (00:13:35):
And, you know, there's so many,
Julie (00:13:38):
Yes, there's a lot of quitlet.
Julie (00:13:39):
Yes,
Julie (00:13:39):
there's a lot of like sobriety is having a hot moment,
Julie (00:13:42):
but most of it is,
Julie (00:13:43):
I don't even think it's definitely like based on the steps or AA.
Julie (00:13:49):
I mean,
Julie (00:13:49):
it could be of course,
Julie (00:13:50):
but there's a lot of curiosity around sobriety,
Julie (00:13:55):
but also like you don't have to have a,
Julie (00:14:00):
like a big rock bottom or problem and you're shining a light on
Julie (00:14:06):
this is normal to want to be healthy and not poison yourself.
Allison (00:14:12):
Yeah, I felt like a lot of my life was spent...
Allison (00:14:16):
waiting for something really terrible to happen so that I could quit drinking.
Allison (00:14:22):
And I feel like a lot of people can relate to that because they're like,
Allison (00:14:27):
okay,
Allison (00:14:27):
like once I hit rock bottom,
Allison (00:14:30):
then I can stop.
Allison (00:14:31):
Like once my family comes and has an intervention,
Allison (00:14:34):
then I'll know I have a problem,
Allison (00:14:36):
but you don't need that.
Allison (00:14:38):
It's okay to just take care of yourself.
Rachel (00:14:43):
I kind of got lucky in that like,
Rachel (00:14:46):
perfect timing that it was just kind of very serendipitous.
Rachel (00:14:51):
But to hear how y'all just kind of did it a way different way, I think is super inspiring.
Rachel (00:14:57):
And I think that's worth sharing.
Rachel (00:14:58):
I feel like the AA,
Rachel (00:15:00):
I'm just another person who went work the steps like millions of other people.
Rachel (00:15:05):
It's much harder to be able to do it while writing, while putting feelings out there online.
Rachel (00:15:13):
Like, I mean, that's a lot.
Rachel (00:15:15):
I feel like it's kind of like RAA.
Julie (00:15:19):
Yeah.
Julie (00:15:20):
Yeah.
Julie (00:15:21):
And I think the three of us have in common,
Julie (00:15:24):
well,
Julie (00:15:24):
at least perhaps the three of us,
Julie (00:15:26):
but Rachel,
Julie (00:15:26):
what I hear in your story that I can relate to is you might have walked into that
Julie (00:15:33):
meeting because you made a promise to someone else.
Julie (00:15:35):
I made a promise to my husband.
Julie (00:15:37):
I was like, I'm going to get this under control.
Julie (00:15:39):
As 2020 went on, I was like, just let me do this and I will get this under control.
Julie (00:15:42):
And so I went like,
Julie (00:15:44):
crazy towards the end of the year in 2020 and then we both did a dry january and
Julie (00:15:50):
like come march he's like all right we're gonna drink again right and i was like no
Julie (00:15:54):
i'm like this is me now so like yeah i i think i would have told people or i was
Julie (00:16:02):
telling myself that like i have to do this for my kids i have to do this because my
Julie (00:16:06):
husband's like stop drinking every day at like two o'clock like stop um
Julie (00:16:12):
but it really was for me.
Julie (00:16:14):
Like it really became like,
Julie (00:16:17):
you know,
Julie (00:16:17):
once you started doing it,
Julie (00:16:18):
it was like,
Julie (00:16:20):
you just come back to yourself,
Julie (00:16:23):
you know?
Julie (00:16:23):
And I think that's, that's what's kept me here.
Julie (00:16:29):
And for some people,
Julie (00:16:30):
it takes a lot,
Julie (00:16:32):
whether they go to an AA meeting or they promise someone they're going to stop drinking,
Julie (00:16:35):
sometimes it takes a few stops and starts,
Julie (00:16:37):
stops and starts,
Julie (00:16:38):
like to figure out like,
Julie (00:16:39):
all right,
Julie (00:16:40):
I really got to fucking do this for me.
Rachel (00:16:42):
And I think that's why I like one of the,
Rachel (00:16:46):
we are the luckiest is the outlook of,
Rachel (00:16:51):
wow,
Rachel (00:16:51):
my OCD kind of saved me in that way.
Rachel (00:16:54):
Like I hate that I have OCD sometimes,
Rachel (00:16:57):
but I think having that part of me in early sobriety,
Rachel (00:17:02):
I just was a very follow the rules.
Rachel (00:17:04):
I was just like,
Rachel (00:17:07):
And it got to a point where it was probably a little unhealthy.
Rachel (00:17:11):
Like, and that's where you grow in transition and there's different phases of sobriety.
Rachel (00:17:18):
But I would definitely say OCD.
Rachel (00:17:22):
If I didn't have that,
Rachel (00:17:23):
I don't know if I would have stuck as well or been as adamant,
Rachel (00:17:26):
rule following.
Rachel (00:17:28):
I thought if I didn't do whatever my sponsor said, like...
Rachel (00:17:33):
I don't even know what I thought would happen.
Rachel (00:17:35):
You'd be expelled.
Rachel (00:17:36):
Expelled, yeah.
Rachel (00:17:37):
I'd be banished.
Rachel (00:17:40):
Shunned.
Rachel (00:17:41):
I don't know.
Rachel (00:17:43):
I got given homework and I went and did it.
Rachel (00:17:49):
It was hard.
Rachel (00:17:49):
It was a weird question.
Rachel (00:17:51):
Again, you sit down and you read a book with someone.
Rachel (00:17:54):
And I hadn't read in like 10 years because I was always too drunk to read.
Rachel (00:17:59):
And like, we're just reading these paragraph by paragraph doing this popcorn.
Rachel (00:18:03):
And there's something really beautiful in like even the simplicity of it.
Rachel (00:18:09):
It's like, oh yeah, I can connect without alcohol.
Rachel (00:18:14):
I never knew that.
Allison (00:18:16):
Did you make it through the whole book?
Allison (00:18:18):
I remember you said on our first interview that,
Allison (00:18:21):
like,
Allison (00:18:22):
it was hard for you to read the big book and you were trying to read the whole thing.
Allison (00:18:25):
Did you, like, read the whole thing?
Rachel (00:18:27):
Oh, multiple times.
Rachel (00:18:28):
Yeah, yeah.
Rachel (00:18:28):
I read it a lot.
Rachel (00:18:29):
Like, I was like, I like it.
Rachel (00:18:33):
There are things I don't like.
Rachel (00:18:34):
Like, there – and I definitely tailed back –
Rachel (00:18:39):
and actually Collins is kind of scaled up,
Rachel (00:18:40):
but it's very weird that I also relate that like Colin and I were like hardcore
Rachel (00:18:47):
drinking buddies.
Rachel (00:18:48):
That's what our whole foundation was on.
Rachel (00:18:51):
Um, my marriage and, um,
Rachel (00:18:56):
we had love it or listed up the other day and we used to like take shots of
Rachel (00:19:00):
guessing if they were going to love it or list it.
Rachel (00:19:02):
And, you know, I was like, how could we ever even watch that show if we don't drink?
Rachel (00:19:07):
And it's like, you see back and you're like, that's the stupidest thing.
Rachel (00:19:10):
This is so silly.
Rachel (00:19:12):
Uh, uh, just, I mean, the, the levels, um, I can't even it in the insanity.
Rachel (00:19:22):
And, um,
Rachel (00:19:24):
I thought we were just going to do nothing.
Rachel (00:19:28):
And life has opened up so many different doors in sobriety.
Rachel (00:19:32):
And like you learn all couples fight, all of them about different things.
Rachel (00:19:39):
And like, there's never going to be a,
Rachel (00:19:41):
Well, there could be a non-fighting couple, but I wouldn't trust it.
Rachel (00:19:45):
Like it's no way.
Rachel (00:19:49):
I also wanted to share.
Rachel (00:19:51):
I've had two things.
Rachel (00:19:52):
So since we haven't recorded in a minute.
Rachel (00:19:54):
So Colin and I flew for my birthday.
Rachel (00:19:57):
We went February 1st and we got the 5 a.m.
Rachel (00:20:00):
flight.
Rachel (00:20:03):
And my body doesn't do well flying anymore.
Rachel (00:20:05):
But anyways,
Rachel (00:20:06):
the thing I had wrote down and noted is as I'm going through security,
Rachel (00:20:12):
there is this like group of the TSA employees and they're like...
Rachel (00:20:17):
yes, dry January is over.
Rachel (00:20:20):
And I was like, it is 5 a.m.
Rachel (00:20:22):
on February 1st.
Rachel (00:20:24):
And I was like, that would have been me.
Rachel (00:20:27):
That probably would have been me at 1 a.m.
Rachel (00:20:29):
And I didn't even realize or connect it was February 1st until I'm overhearing it
Rachel (00:20:35):
and halfway at the airport.
Rachel (00:20:37):
And I don't know if what those people's lives are like, but it made me so grateful.
Rachel (00:20:43):
I was like, oh my God, I'm so glad I'm not thinking about like,
Rachel (00:20:49):
the celebration of doing a month of like,
Rachel (00:20:55):
that's the first thing I got to tell my coworkers when I walk in in the morning,
Rachel (00:20:58):
you know?
Rachel (00:20:58):
Yeah.
Rachel (00:20:59):
And it just reminded me how this affects more people than like I think about.
(00:21:06):
Yeah.
Julie (00:21:07):
I think dry January is like getting a bad rap to some degree because there are a lot of people
Julie (00:21:19):
And I was one who would participate in it and be like, I don't have a problem.
Julie (00:21:23):
Like I didn't drink for 31 days and it wasn't so hard, you know?
Julie (00:21:28):
And like for me when that first month, yeah, it was hard.
Julie (00:21:33):
Don't get me wrong.
Julie (00:21:34):
It was hard, but like a lot of stuff is much harder now than that first year.
Julie (00:21:39):
I mean,
Julie (00:21:40):
I'm finding like,
Julie (00:21:41):
you really got to like get some traction and the sobriety thing for it to get like,
Julie (00:21:46):
to really try it on.
Julie (00:21:47):
You can't fucking do that in a month.
Julie (00:21:50):
And that's why I think they're like you hear so many like personally, I think.
Julie (00:21:56):
However, someone's going to dry up if it's just for a month, like, great, try it on.
Julie (00:22:00):
But.
Julie (00:22:00):
To use that as an excuse or like a conviction,
Julie (00:22:06):
like telling yourself,
Julie (00:22:08):
I don't have a problem because I do it every year or I I can't,
Julie (00:22:11):
you know,
Julie (00:22:11):
I don't know why.
Julie (00:22:14):
So it's, it's a weird, it's a weird thing.
Rachel (00:22:16):
Some of the things we witnessed behind clothes,
Rachel (00:22:19):
you know,
Rachel (00:22:20):
the high bottom drunk,
Rachel (00:22:22):
which I think all three of us kind of fall in.
Rachel (00:22:26):
It's like behind the scenes though, it wasn't always so high bottom.
Rachel (00:22:29):
Like, I think there's a lot of behind closed doors that.
Rachel (00:22:33):
Yeah.
Rachel (00:22:35):
The, it looks so good until it's like no one, but the like immediate family is around.
Rachel (00:22:43):
How does your family feel about... I remember asking Julie this on the first one.
Julie (00:22:49):
Yeah, my dynamic is interesting because my husband still drinks.
Rachel (00:22:56):
Oh, that's right.
Rachel (00:22:57):
Okay.
Julie (00:22:57):
Yeah, not nearly as much as he did when I was still drinking.
Julie (00:23:03):
And our drinking was different.
Julie (00:23:07):
We were drinking buddies.
Julie (00:23:08):
We both drank, in my opinion, more...
Julie (00:23:12):
often in more quantity than we should have when we did.
Julie (00:23:15):
But,
Julie (00:23:16):
you know,
Julie (00:23:17):
he,
Julie (00:23:18):
he wasn't as dependent on it in the same ways that I was like,
Julie (00:23:21):
I depended on it for stress,
Julie (00:23:23):
for overwhelm,
Julie (00:23:23):
for coping,
Julie (00:23:24):
for like,
Julie (00:23:26):
he was just like,
Julie (00:23:27):
I mean,
Julie (00:23:28):
Yeah.
Julie (00:23:28):
Okay.
Julie (00:23:28):
Occasionally, but he was more just like, he's the fun guy.
Julie (00:23:30):
Like, let's fucking do a shot.
Julie (00:23:32):
Like, come on.
Julie (00:23:33):
Like, you know, but like he day to day stuff, he didn't need it.
Julie (00:23:35):
Like me, like just functioning.
Julie (00:23:37):
I just needed that one or two drinks to take the edge off.
Julie (00:23:40):
He wasn't the guy who needed to take the edge off or isn't the guy.
Julie (00:23:44):
So that's changed our marriage drastically.
Julie (00:23:49):
It's forced us to, to like have conversations about things, to talk.
Julie (00:23:53):
It's forced us to talk.
Julie (00:23:55):
And as far as the kids go, like,
Julie (00:23:57):
It's, you know, my son's 17, is a senior in high school.
Julie (00:24:01):
I had,
Julie (00:24:01):
yeah,
Julie (00:24:02):
I had a 17-year-old and 11-year-old and my son's getting ready to go off to college.
Julie (00:24:06):
And for the very first time about a month ago, I caught him drunk.
Julie (00:24:13):
And I, you know, it wasn't, it was, it's just, I didn't, I mean, I know he's drinking.
Julie (00:24:18):
I know he, I trust him, like all that stuff.
Julie (00:24:21):
He's a smart, like he's, you know, he had a ride, all of the things you hope that he,
Julie (00:24:25):
does or doesn't do when he decides to drink.
Julie (00:24:28):
So there's some good, honest conversations.
Julie (00:24:31):
Like he reads some of my sub stack,
Julie (00:24:33):
my son,
Julie (00:24:36):
my kids,
Julie (00:24:36):
like my daughter's 11,
Julie (00:24:37):
but she understands like twice a month,
Julie (00:24:39):
I host a online sobriety Zoom for TLC for the local subgroup.
Julie (00:24:44):
And like, mom, you have your TLC?
Julie (00:24:46):
Like she understands what I'm doing when I do it.
Julie (00:24:51):
But that's different than like to your point about
Julie (00:24:56):
like what really went on behind the scenes.
Julie (00:24:58):
Like if I'm going to write an honest book and I think I will someday,
Julie (00:25:02):
like there's going to be stuff in there that's going to be hard for all three of
Julie (00:25:04):
them to read.
Julie (00:25:05):
I know it, but.
Rachel (00:25:08):
So do you guys find yourself,
Rachel (00:25:10):
Julie,
Rachel (00:25:10):
I know you love books,
Rachel (00:25:11):
so I know that's hard,
Rachel (00:25:12):
but do you find yourself like when you're trying to just not have a creative,
Rachel (00:25:17):
are you more video?
Rachel (00:25:18):
Are you shorts or listening to audio in the car?
Rachel (00:25:23):
I mean, where do you default?
Rachel (00:25:26):
I gobble it all up.
Allison (00:25:28):
Eyes, ears, mouth.
Allison (00:25:35):
I listen to podcasts, read newsletters, read books.
Allison (00:25:39):
I feel like Allison is the same way.
Allison (00:25:41):
We're media consumers.
Rachel (00:25:47):
Do you prefer to do a Kindle reader or iPad?
Allison (00:25:54):
I like physical books.
Allison (00:25:57):
I have a Kindle, but it's annoying to have to remember to charge it.
Allison (00:26:02):
And I just, I like the feeling of the paper and turning the pages.
Allison (00:26:05):
It's just like been a love affair since I was five.
Allison (00:26:08):
So,
Allison (00:26:09):
and I like to go to the library when I find out that there's a book that I love,
Allison (00:26:14):
that I want to read that's at the library,
Allison (00:26:17):
put it on hold.
Allison (00:26:18):
And it's just amazing.
Allison (00:26:20):
I feel like libraries are so magic.
Allison (00:26:22):
I love them so much.
Julie (00:26:24):
I have a hard, I have, my preference is definitely the actual book versus Kindle.
Julie (00:26:30):
But my problem with like taking it from the library is I,
Julie (00:26:32):
I'm the one who like goes in the margin and writes and underlines and does all that.
Julie (00:26:37):
So if it's a library book, I'm like, oh shit.
Julie (00:26:39):
Like if I really, then I'll go, what I end up doing usually is like, I'll go and buy it.
Julie (00:26:43):
I really loved it to mark it all up and do my thing with it.
Julie (00:26:46):
Yeah.
Rachel (00:26:47):
That's awesome.
Rachel (00:26:48):
I never something I've done.
Julie (00:26:51):
My books are like, people will come over and be like, can I borrow this?
Julie (00:26:54):
I'm like, uh, okay.
Julie (00:26:56):
But they open it up and it's like, I graffiti the hell out of it.
Julie (00:27:00):
They're like, I'll just buy it myself.
(00:27:02):
Um,
Rachel (00:27:03):
That was one of my favorite quotes that was related to AA.
Rachel (00:27:08):
And I have it in the very front is,
Rachel (00:27:10):
you know,
Rachel (00:27:11):
a big book that's falling apart with the pages falling out and like the seals is
Rachel (00:27:17):
usually owned by someone who's not.
Rachel (00:27:20):
And it's like...
Rachel (00:27:21):
I love the like that falling apart, gone through, highlighted, marked.
Rachel (00:27:27):
And it's like you can tell every page has just been soaked up in information.
Rachel (00:27:30):
And it's like I loved the idea that anyone who has a big book or a book that is
Rachel (00:27:36):
falling apart is not falling apart themselves.
Rachel (00:27:39):
And I've always loved that.
Rachel (00:27:41):
Yeah.
Rachel (00:27:43):
that quote.
Rachel (00:27:43):
It's, I don't know.
Rachel (00:27:45):
I look at books differently when everyone brings theirs to group.
Rachel (00:27:48):
And I'm like, that's how I can tell when someone has a little more time.
Rachel (00:27:52):
Now I used to look at different things and I'm like, that person who's got a beat up book.
Rachel (00:27:57):
Yeah.
Rachel (00:27:57):
They got some time and it's been, it's been places and it's, it's cool.
Rachel (00:28:05):
It's cause you meet the most
Rachel (00:28:10):
random unique people that you share this like really intense bond with and it's
Rachel (00:28:19):
that's cool though people that would normally not mix yeah
Rachel (00:28:25):
What for outside, like not even just creative, but with sobriety.
Rachel (00:28:31):
So if not AA,
Rachel (00:28:34):
I know when I was going to AA regularly,
Rachel (00:28:37):
there's just a lot of like events and groups and like you can get your schedule
Rachel (00:28:40):
pretty full with things to do.
Rachel (00:28:42):
So what do you do outside like for hobbies or if you're not writing or you're not
Rachel (00:28:48):
reading someone else's work?
Rachel (00:28:50):
Are there other things outside or do you try to stay within the sober community or sober groups?
Julie (00:28:55):
I mean, I, I need it.
Julie (00:28:57):
I definitely will admit that I need that outlet with people who get it and are in it,
Julie (00:29:02):
but it's not,
Julie (00:29:03):
you know,
Julie (00:29:03):
I also have,
Julie (00:29:04):
I still have a group of friends who know my story,
Julie (00:29:08):
but that I'll still see regularly.
Julie (00:29:12):
And, you know, it's really like my kids' sports too.
Julie (00:29:17):
Like right now we're in the winter and they both play basketball.
Julie (00:29:19):
So when I'm not sort of doing the sober thing or writing,
Julie (00:29:23):
A lot of my time is in the basketball court, like watching the kids, which I love.
Julie (00:29:30):
But I will say that, you know, the dynamics of friendships have definitely changed.
Julie (00:29:36):
Some for the better.
Julie (00:29:38):
Like,
Julie (00:29:40):
yeah,
Julie (00:29:40):
surprisingly,
Julie (00:29:41):
I would like,
Julie (00:29:42):
there are certain friends who I never would have thought I'd become closer to in
Julie (00:29:47):
sobriety that aren't necessarily sober.
Julie (00:29:49):
They're just willing to listen to this stuff and like,
Julie (00:29:53):
want this sort of conversation too,
Julie (00:29:55):
because like it,
Julie (00:29:58):
it really like when you peel it back,
Julie (00:29:59):
it's not the alcohol,
Julie (00:30:00):
right?
Julie (00:30:00):
Like why we drank, it's really not.
Julie (00:30:02):
So I have some friends who I'm like,
Julie (00:30:03):
wow,
Julie (00:30:03):
I never would have thought we'd become closer this way.
Julie (00:30:06):
Um, so that's been like a cool little surprise.
Rachel (00:30:12):
Yeah.
Rachel (00:30:13):
Yeah.
Rachel (00:30:13):
Like I was never present and I was always selfish and I was usually the one trying
Rachel (00:30:19):
to entice like
Rachel (00:30:21):
the next shot and it's, or the next drink or the next round.
Rachel (00:30:25):
Um, is there any other topic or any other things you want to share?
Rachel (00:30:32):
I feel like we've kind of gone a little different places.
Rachel (00:30:35):
The only thing I'd want to say is,
Rachel (00:30:37):
um,
Julie (00:30:37):
I feel like my writing has evolved a little bit in the sobriety,
Julie (00:30:42):
um,
Julie (00:30:44):
where I came to stop sec.
Julie (00:30:47):
I started writing really with a very,
Julie (00:30:49):
focused sober lens and with the consistent practice of writing like a weekly
Julie (00:30:56):
newsletter I have found myself I don't want to say getting tired of it but just
Julie (00:31:02):
finding myself wanting to do other things with my writing but there's another part
Julie (00:31:08):
of me that's like can you really do that Allison you know so it's that it's a new
Julie (00:31:14):
uncomfortableness that I'm trying to navigate um
Julie (00:31:18):
But it feels good.
Julie (00:31:19):
So I don't know if that's something I should be disclosing here.
Julie (00:31:23):
But yeah, I just think my writing is evolving, which I think is what sobriety is all about.
Julie (00:31:31):
Yeah.
Rachel (00:31:32):
And that did make me feel like when I got sober and I,
Rachel (00:31:37):
I also,
Rachel (00:31:38):
the opposite thing,
Rachel (00:31:39):
I'd never really read or listened to any sober podcasts.
Rachel (00:31:44):
I did tiny bit of TikTok that I would follow,
Rachel (00:31:48):
unfollow this girl because it just depended on which mood I was in.
Rachel (00:31:51):
I was like, oh, that's inspiring.
Rachel (00:31:53):
Or I'm like, oh, this bitch needs to go.
Rachel (00:31:55):
Like, you know, like I depended on where I was at and
Rachel (00:32:01):
but I would never be able to commit to like,
Rachel (00:32:03):
cause I would,
Rachel (00:32:05):
I still argued up until that day I walked in,
Rachel (00:32:07):
like I was going to drink till the day,
Rachel (00:32:10):
you know,
Rachel (00:32:10):
like sobriety wasn't even something.
Rachel (00:32:12):
Yeah.
Rachel (00:32:15):
I would have rather died like at that day.
Rachel (00:32:17):
And,
Rachel (00:32:17):
uh,
Rachel (00:32:20):
so it's interesting to hear the different ways that some people are like,
Rachel (00:32:24):
yeah,
Rachel (00:32:25):
they kind of like listen.
Rachel (00:32:25):
And I wonder how many people are listening or tuning in that, uh,
Rachel (00:32:29):
are still kind of like curious,
Rachel (00:32:31):
testing it out,
Rachel (00:32:32):
doing the research versus people that have long-term sobriety that are looking for
Rachel (00:32:38):
something relatable.
Rachel (00:32:39):
Do you have a way in which you try to direct or do you like some weeks you're like,
Rachel (00:32:46):
it's more for maybe the sober established or the sober curious?
Julie (00:32:50):
I don't really, and maybe I should, but I don't have like a, um,
Julie (00:32:56):
this is for those of you out here who X,
Julie (00:32:58):
Y,
Julie (00:32:59):
Z,
Julie (00:32:59):
it's just,
Julie (00:33:01):
I've recently changed the name of my Substack from dare to be dry to dare to be just to.
Rachel (00:33:07):
Oh, okay.
Rachel (00:33:08):
I think I noticed that.
Rachel (00:33:09):
I was like, I love dare to be dry.
Julie (00:33:11):
I love that.
Julie (00:33:12):
Yeah.
Julie (00:33:12):
I mean,
Julie (00:33:13):
and like,
Julie (00:33:13):
it'll always be like when I kind of made the announcement that I was changing the name,
Julie (00:33:17):
it was like,
Julie (00:33:18):
listen,
Julie (00:33:18):
that sobriety voice is always going to be humming in the background.
Julie (00:33:22):
Like it's always going to be there, but I just didn't want,
Julie (00:33:26):
to kind of pigeonhole myself into only writing from like about sobriety.
Julie (00:33:29):
Yeah, that's the evolving.
Allison (00:33:32):
Yeah, that's the same for me.
Allison (00:33:36):
That's why I love like a normal person because all my new addictions can fit into
Allison (00:33:42):
what I'm writing about.
Rachel (00:33:43):
Well, I like that your podcast spinoff, it's the quick lit.
Rachel (00:33:48):
So I mean, really, it could be about a book that has nothing to do with sobriety.
Allison (00:33:52):
Well, the idea with my podcast is it's going to be about books and I'm going to do seasons.
Allison (00:33:59):
So it's like the Quitlet season right now because I just wrote a Quitlet book.
Allison (00:34:04):
Um, and then next season it's going to be something different.
Allison (00:34:06):
I'm going to write about, or read books about sisters, sisterhood, um, of the traveling pants.
Rachel (00:34:13):
Not that.
Rachel (00:34:17):
Uh, I mean, and that's, uh, what, yeah.
Rachel (00:34:22):
Other than this podcast, it's Colin and I've said so many times we're like,
Rachel (00:34:27):
It doesn't, we don't really think about drinking.
Rachel (00:34:29):
We don't.
Rachel (00:34:29):
So other than the things I mentioned about being at the airport,
Rachel (00:34:32):
like we noticed that or the,
Rachel (00:34:34):
his mom,
Rachel (00:34:35):
like there's just very little things,
Rachel (00:34:36):
but it's,
Rachel (00:34:37):
there comes a point where you're like,
Rachel (00:34:40):
okay,
Rachel (00:34:41):
like alcohol.
Rachel (00:34:42):
So what?
Rachel (00:34:42):
Like it doesn't really faze me anymore.
Allison (00:34:45):
I feel like that you, I want personally for me, I don't want my life to be about it forever.
Allison (00:34:53):
Um, that's,
Allison (00:34:55):
like why I quit is because I don't want my life to be about it so if I'm talking
Allison (00:35:00):
about so sobriety like every day for the rest of my life I I feel like that is a
Allison (00:35:07):
little bit of a stunted growth I guess yeah and it still owns you somewhat
Allison (00:35:16):
And a lot of the people who have written the books that I read,
Allison (00:35:21):
what they go on to do is start their sober,
Allison (00:35:24):
they become this sober community leader.
Allison (00:35:30):
I don't want that.
Allison (00:35:31):
I don't want that life because it does get a little bit monotonous.
Allison (00:35:42):
And one note.
Allison (00:35:44):
But I want it always to be the foundation from which everything else blooms, you know?
Rachel (00:35:51):
Well, it is.
Rachel (00:35:51):
And it's just like, it was such a big part of the life.
Rachel (00:35:54):
It's hard to like, not be grateful instantly.
Rachel (00:36:00):
It's, but yeah, you're right.
Rachel (00:36:02):
It's as time goes on, it's like,
Rachel (00:36:06):
we're going to talk about other things, right?
Rachel (00:36:08):
Like, you know, I get it.
Rachel (00:36:12):
And that's kind of probably where our podcast is very, very niche.
Rachel (00:36:18):
If you're,
Rachel (00:36:19):
I don't know how long it'll,
Rachel (00:36:22):
I don't even know if the sober movement is like me seeing,
Rachel (00:36:25):
you know,
Rachel (00:36:26):
I saw a blue car and now I see them all over the highway.
Rachel (00:36:29):
And it's like, it's actually always been there.
Rachel (00:36:31):
I just never really noticed it.
Rachel (00:36:34):
Or I think I've read enough about, again, I don't know what my algorithm is.
Rachel (00:36:38):
Like sometimes it's wild and it chooses what it wants for me.
Rachel (00:36:45):
And one question I guess I do have,
Rachel (00:36:48):
as I trust both of y'all to ask,
Rachel (00:36:52):
I am,
Rachel (00:36:53):
I do have one other interview tomorrow and
Rachel (00:36:57):
with someone who just wrote and published a memoir that's brand new.
Rachel (00:37:01):
What questions do you wish people would have asked you about when you started your
Rachel (00:37:05):
newsletter or your book?
Rachel (00:37:07):
What questions did you like that made you feel good?
Rachel (00:37:13):
Like what,
Rachel (00:37:14):
for other people that might meet an author or meet someone,
Rachel (00:37:18):
even if they're not doing an interview,
Rachel (00:37:19):
like what are the questions you enjoy?
Rachel (00:37:22):
Cause we talk about the ones that suck all the time.
Rachel (00:37:24):
Like those go in like the mean comments, but what are the good questions?
Julie (00:37:31):
I think from like, go ahead, Julie.
Allison (00:37:33):
I was just going to say something that I always love to explore,
Allison (00:37:41):
especially with memoir is other people and how like that are in and how you
Allison (00:37:51):
navigate like other people's privacy.
Allison (00:37:56):
Um,
Allison (00:37:56):
because I feel like that can feel in a way so selfish to be using other people's
Allison (00:38:05):
lives for like your art.
Allison (00:38:12):
I don't know.
Allison (00:38:12):
Like it's, it's an interesting topic to explore.
Rachel (00:38:16):
Yeah, that's interesting.
Rachel (00:38:17):
I like it.
Rachel (00:38:18):
And it's kind of,
Rachel (00:38:18):
as we said earlier,
Rachel (00:38:20):
I want to be transparent on this podcast,
Rachel (00:38:23):
but to be transparent does involve using the last three weeks of having my
Rachel (00:38:28):
mother-in-law in the hospital,
Rachel (00:38:29):
you know,
Rachel (00:38:30):
but you're right.
Rachel (00:38:32):
And how,
Rachel (00:38:33):
so then back,
Rachel (00:38:34):
how did you feel when,
Rachel (00:38:36):
how did you treat the fairness when you were writing your book?
Allison (00:38:40):
Well, I definitely just tried to,
Allison (00:38:43):
make sure that everything was my story and not,
Allison (00:38:47):
I mean,
Allison (00:38:48):
it's almost impossible not to put my judgments on people and their behaviors,
Allison (00:38:51):
but as much as I could,
Allison (00:38:53):
I just tried to tell the story.
Allison (00:38:55):
But I did address it even in the book.
Allison (00:39:01):
And I think like one of the reviews even talked about how they were uncomfortable
Allison (00:39:09):
with the way that I shared
Allison (00:39:12):
someone's story that didn't want to be shared.
Allison (00:39:15):
Um, and when I was reading the review, I was just like, yeah, me too.
Allison (00:39:21):
Yeah.
Allison (00:39:24):
I've already,
Rachel (00:39:27):
I've had a few negative reviews,
Rachel (00:39:30):
especially on working on my interview style and I just get excited.
Rachel (00:39:33):
And again, ADD OCD, I'm trying to work on the
Rachel (00:39:39):
pause i'm a no silence person so like not talking over anyone and i've had someone
Rachel (00:39:45):
comment you're rude and you only care about yourself so why have guests on and i
Rachel (00:39:50):
was like well that's freaking harsh i was like i mean it's me i'm it's he's not
Rachel (00:39:57):
like completely wrong like i've also noticed it i edit the podcast like i'm like oh
Rachel (00:40:02):
god rachel and
Rachel (00:40:04):
I'm like, I listen to other people now, and it takes a long time.
Rachel (00:40:09):
It doesn't come instantly.
Rachel (00:40:11):
It's something that builds.
Rachel (00:40:15):
We Are the Luckiest Club I heard used to be very small.
Rachel (00:40:20):
The day I offered to host a Zoom, I was like, oh, I'm going to do a Zoom.
Rachel (00:40:24):
I didn't put any paywall.
Rachel (00:40:26):
I just wanted to see.
Rachel (00:40:27):
I had more unsubscribers than people that showed up.
Rachel (00:40:31):
So that was fun.
Rachel (00:40:33):
I sent out the email and I got two immediate unsubscribes.
Rachel (00:40:36):
I was like, solid.
Rachel (00:40:37):
And then one person showed up.
Julie (00:40:39):
That always surprises me.
Julie (00:40:40):
It's like,
Julie (00:40:41):
do you...
Julie (00:40:41):
Like,
Julie (00:40:43):
you subscribe for something and then when you get mad when you get the email,
Julie (00:40:47):
it's like,
Julie (00:40:47):
well...
Julie (00:40:48):
I don't know.
Allison (00:40:49):
I feel like sometimes people don't know what, what they're doing when they subscribe.
Allison (00:40:53):
I feel like,
Allison (00:40:54):
well,
Allison (00:40:55):
like I've come,
Allison (00:40:56):
I've made peace with like,
Allison (00:40:57):
okay,
Allison (00:40:57):
every time you send out an email,
Allison (00:40:59):
people are going to unsubscribe and it's nothing.
Allison (00:41:02):
It might not have anything to do with you and you don't want them there anyways.
Allison (00:41:05):
Leave my party.
Rachel (00:41:07):
But it's really hard to tell yourself when you get those comments of like,
Rachel (00:41:12):
you're the worst interviewer ever.
Rachel (00:41:14):
Go take classes, whatever you need to do, or like do a,
Rachel (00:41:20):
I know, it's actually, I very much respect the interview game now.
Rachel (00:41:24):
There is definitely an art to it.
Allison (00:41:28):
Well, any resources that you want to share with me?
Allison (00:41:32):
Because I'm learning, too.
Julie (00:41:34):
You're both doing great.
Allison (00:41:35):
I was going to say, though, I like...
Allison (00:41:39):
It's like confronting to listen to your conversations that you have with people and realize,
Allison (00:41:45):
oh,
Allison (00:41:45):
this is what I do.
Allison (00:41:46):
Like, this is how I try to steer things to like where I want it to go.
Allison (00:41:51):
And I didn't listen to what she said just then.
Allison (00:41:53):
And just like,
Allison (00:41:54):
you hear it and it like really forces you to examine your conversation style,
Allison (00:42:02):
which is something you just,
Allison (00:42:04):
I don't know,
Allison (00:42:05):
don't think about until like you're listening to that recording.
Rachel (00:42:08):
Yeah.
Allison (00:42:09):
And then you try to catch phrase like the question yourself.
Rachel (00:42:13):
Yeah.
Rachel (00:42:13):
Yeah.
Rachel (00:42:14):
And I mean,
Rachel (00:42:15):
I even found myself yesterday,
Rachel (00:42:17):
like wanting,
Rachel (00:42:18):
as I was looking up questions of what to ask,
Rachel (00:42:20):
like,
Rachel (00:42:21):
you know,
Rachel (00:42:21):
or to get,
Rachel (00:42:23):
thoughts of just where to go.
Rachel (00:42:25):
Uh, you know, you have the whole, Oh, how you need to have your podcast intro.
Rachel (00:42:31):
It needs to be first sentence structure, second sentence, third sentence.
Rachel (00:42:34):
And I'm like, again, my OCD kicks in.
Rachel (00:42:36):
I want to be a rule follower.
Rachel (00:42:38):
And I'm like, this isn't even me anymore.
Rachel (00:42:41):
This like, I'm not the you're it's taking away my personality, but I'm reading too much into it.
Rachel (00:42:46):
And the office authenticity is what I love so much about this in the beginning.
(00:42:50):
Uh,
Julie (00:42:53):
it's banter so like that's like why would you have too many rules around a banter
Julie (00:43:00):
like a banter is just like we're gonna come and we're gonna shoot the shit like you
Rachel (00:43:04):
know so it was hard naming the podcast that was a whole other like naming your news
Rachel (00:43:09):
are you talking about like the not wanting to limit yourself like there's just so
Rachel (00:43:14):
much behind the creative process that
Rachel (00:43:20):
so much more into it if if someone knew how much like work thought i don't know if
Rachel (00:43:24):
y'all brainstorm i definitely do for podcast episodes like i even go to my little
Rachel (00:43:30):
idea sheet and i can try and think of things i want to kind of say um or have
Rachel (00:43:39):
reflections but if someone thinks i just come in here and plug and go it's
Rachel (00:43:44):
A lot more thought.
Rachel (00:43:45):
And like I said, I've tried to do, oh, you need to do a newsletter reviewing the podcast.
Rachel (00:43:50):
I'm like, what are we doing?
Rachel (00:43:54):
And then I got to make a short clip of that to put on Instagram and TikTok for the
Rachel (00:43:58):
Gen A or Alpha,
Rachel (00:44:00):
whatever.
Rachel (00:44:01):
And now I'm like, okay.
Rachel (00:44:03):
And now I have to post them on 20 different social media sites because I'm missing
Rachel (00:44:08):
out on this one.
Rachel (00:44:09):
And it goes on and on.
Rachel (00:44:12):
And that sounds like, okay, yeah, just go post it.
Rachel (00:44:15):
Yeah.
Rachel (00:44:16):
No, that takes hours sometimes, like captions.
Rachel (00:44:18):
And then you realize, oh, that doesn't sound right.
Rachel (00:44:21):
And you don't want them all the same.
Rachel (00:44:23):
And it can get very rabbit-holey very fast.
Rachel (00:44:28):
I just think of Evan's little video.
Rachel (00:44:30):
Smash that subscribe and like button.
Rachel (00:44:35):
Like the video games?
Rachel (00:44:37):
I don't know if your son watches them,
Rachel (00:44:39):
but my son loves watching the video games like other people play.
Rachel (00:44:44):
Yeah.
Rachel (00:44:46):
It's crazy.
Rachel (00:44:46):
Yeah.
Rachel (00:44:46):
No, the YouTube nation that we live in.
Rachel (00:44:49):
Yeah.
Rachel (00:44:50):
Smash that subscribe button.
Rachel (00:44:51):
And I'm like,
Rachel (00:44:52):
well,
Rachel (00:44:52):
I will,
Julie (00:44:53):
I will say as a family,
Julie (00:44:55):
the four of us last night spent at least a half hour watching YouTube videos of
Julie (00:45:00):
goats that faint.
Julie (00:45:02):
It was the funniest.
Julie (00:45:04):
You got to find it.
Julie (00:45:05):
Like it's, it was just the stream of like, like goats that fit like falling over fainting.
Julie (00:45:12):
And it's amazing.
Julie (00:45:13):
But they're not harmed.
Julie (00:45:14):
Like, no one gets hurt.
Julie (00:45:15):
Like,
Julie (00:45:15):
I guess goats have this thing where you're scared that,
Julie (00:45:17):
like,
Julie (00:45:18):
if they're startled,
Julie (00:45:19):
they just tip over.
Rachel (00:45:20):
And their legs, they... We watch America's Funniest Home Videos for animals all the time.
Rachel (00:45:25):
So I will Google that.
Rachel (00:45:26):
That's cute.
Rachel (00:45:27):
We will be 100% watching it.
Julie (00:45:29):
The four of us were dying laughing.
Julie (00:45:31):
And I was like, that was really fun.
Julie (00:45:33):
Right before bed, we were just like watching goats.
Rachel (00:45:35):
Yeah, we watched a family.
Rachel (00:45:36):
So I will be Googling goats.
Rachel (00:45:38):
Actually, I'll do a video reaction even.
Rachel (00:45:40):
I will post it.
Rachel (00:45:41):
But I know I've gone over on time.
Rachel (00:45:43):
And I just want to say thank you both.
Rachel (00:45:46):
I am going to link both of y'all's sub stacks.
Rachel (00:45:48):
I will tag you as creator too.
Rachel (00:45:52):
And Julie, just like last time, I'll send y'all that.
Rachel (00:45:55):
You guys will understand.
Rachel (00:45:57):
so nice because a lot of people I'm like,
Rachel (00:45:59):
I send them that secret draft link and I have to try and explain,
Rachel (00:46:03):
like,
Rachel (00:46:03):
please don't share this one.
Rachel (00:46:04):
This is just for you.
Rachel (00:46:05):
It's like, it'll expire.
Rachel (00:46:07):
But both of y'all have subsects.
Rachel (00:46:08):
You already know what that is.
Rachel (00:46:09):
And I don't have to be like, I feel so weird saying it to someone too.
Rachel (00:46:14):
Hey,
Rachel (00:46:14):
here's the secret link,
Rachel (00:46:16):
but it is going to expire after it posts,
Rachel (00:46:18):
but that way you can view it.
Rachel (00:46:20):
And
Rachel (00:46:21):
You know,
Rachel (00:46:22):
like when I interviewed the psychologist,
Rachel (00:46:24):
the doctor,
Rachel (00:46:24):
and I'm like telling him there's,
Rachel (00:46:26):
I felt like I all had a tinfoil hat.
Rachel (00:46:29):
Here's the secret link, but don't share it.
Rachel (00:46:32):
It's going to go poof after midnight.
Rachel (00:46:34):
Like, I don't know.
Rachel (00:46:35):
It's just,
Rachel (00:46:37):
I just sat there and I'm like,
Rachel (00:46:38):
but I want everyone to have a chance to,
Rachel (00:46:41):
if there's something you don't want on there,
Rachel (00:46:42):
then we'll take it off.
Rachel (00:46:43):
It's not a big deal.
Rachel (00:46:44):
That's not going to hurt my feelings.
Rachel (00:46:45):
I'd rather have people be comfortable than have to like,
Rachel (00:46:52):
worry about someone hearing something they don't want on there.
Rachel (00:46:54):
Like, it's just not worth it to me.
Rachel (00:46:56):
And, um, I thank you both for coming on.
Rachel (00:46:59):
So it'll be like a normal person will be all, it'll be linked again.
Rachel (00:47:04):
Everyone has sub stacks.
Rachel (00:47:05):
That'd be perfect.
Rachel (00:47:06):
Um, and then I guess the dare to be anything.
Rachel (00:47:12):
I love it.
Rachel (00:47:13):
Anything, anything you can dare to, and I mean, that's, I can turn anything into an addiction.
Rachel (00:47:17):
So,
Rachel (00:47:19):
Same.
Rachel (00:47:21):
Dare to be.
Rachel (00:47:23):
Just, yep.
Rachel (00:47:24):
I'm there.
Rachel (00:47:27):
Thank you both, Allison and Julie.
Rachel (00:47:28):
I'm going to end recording.