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NET Society is unraveling the latest in digital art, crypto, AI, and tech. Join us for fresh insights and bold perspectives as we tap into wild, thought-provoking conversations. By: Derek Edwards (glitch marfa / collab+currency), Chris Furlong (starholder, LAO + Flamingo DAO), and Aaaron Wright & Priyanka Desai (Tribute Labs)
00;00;15;22 - 00;00;19;12
Aaron
So you guys are. How's your AI psychosis going?
00;00;19;18 - 00;00;20;20
Chris
Not great Bob.
00;00;20;23 - 00;00;22;14
Aaron
Not great. What happened?
00;00;22;22 - 00;00;28;07
Chris
I'm not having a very good month in the prompt, mind. I think that's the the overwhelming issue.
00;00;28;08 - 00;00;32;00
Pri
The prompt lines. I'm crying. That was really good, Chris.
00;00;32;06 - 00;00;35;18
Aaron
The new trenches is the the prompt, the prompt.
00;00;35;18 - 00;01;00;13
Chris
Q yeah, I'm I don't know. I'm trying to close shit out. And, you know, you you get all the easy stuff done and then you're left with the hard, complex things. And so that's that's challenge one is I just I'm into some like really sticky work that yeah, requires a lot of like iteration and thinking, thinking it through and just trying different combinations and it's incredibly intricate stuff.
00;01;00;13 - 00;01;21;12
Chris
And so if you throw something off in one place trying, you know, trying to fix another place, then you know you're back at square one. Like a lot of my work is just boxes with boxes in them and inside those boxes or other boxes. And sometimes it was even a fourth layer of boxes, and all those boxes need to do the right thing at the right time.
00;01;21;15 - 00;01;37;06
Chris
Then, you know, push that up into the box that you're sitting in so that that box can do its thing. And that box needs to be in agreement with the other box. And if my boxes aren't boxing, then I got to start opening all the boxes and figure out what goes on with all the little machines sitting inside the boxes.
00;01;37;06 - 00;02;05;29
Chris
And you can understand that, you know, when you've got multiple boxes open and they're not boxing the way you want them to be boxing, you can start to lose your shit about it. And so, you know, that's one one variation of the AI psychosis I'm experiencing at the moment. The other than is just like models, new models, new system one models that do new things that then, you know, I can't constrain myself.
00;02;05;29 - 00;02;29;27
Chris
So if I see a new toy, I'm just going to try to like, push it to the most baroque and elaborate limit ever. And so, you know, I'm now like trying out new architectures in which I have, like Jeb, answering dozens to hundreds of little tiny questions, assembling those questions into other answers, having those those assemblies that start asking questions of them and, you know, that's that's a whole other thing.
00;02;29;27 - 00;02;51;25
Chris
And then, you know, trying to get my hands around Astra, then GPT six and then opus five five and you know, the whole, oh my God, they can do these incredible things. And oh my God, they have no executive function still. And so, you know, I've like built a couple really like insane prototypes and assault things I've never been able to solve for.
00;02;51;25 - 00;03;12;12
Chris
And then when I try to go and roll that back into everything else, I'm back in my box problem. Except now, you know, I've got a new box doing entirely new things that I don't really understand, you know? And then September is always a busy month. So like I was I was away this weekend because we had a long weekend and we went up to Boston to see the family.
00;03;12;19 - 00;03;35;11
Chris
And, you know, we got guests in town and staying with us and, you know, all these different things that disrupt your life when you're in the shit. And so like my, like my AI psychosis, I had like my son monitoring my laptop, sitting in the back seat of the cars and going up, I 95, you know, on a Friday night and rush hour on a five hour drive managing ticket cuz.
00;03;35;13 - 00;03;36;29
Aaron
You're like, it's.
00;03;36;29 - 00;03;38;10
Chris
Just a bit much.
00;03;38;12 - 00;03;47;29
Aaron
You're teaching in the ways. So you're choosing AI psychosis over anti psychosis. Chris is that what I'm hearing? Is that the is that the trade. Yes.
00;03;48;01 - 00;03;55;03
Chris
Well my guess I, we literally do have an auntie staying with us. It's not my auntie, it's my wife's auntie. And so.
00;03;55;07 - 00;03;56;26
Pri
We love aunties.
00;03;56;28 - 00;04;25;26
Chris
You know like I don't completely. Yes aunties. Aunties are a powerful force. They're great and wonderful people. They're a system unto themselves. And thankfully, you know this. This auntie is my wife's primary responsibility. I'm just saying, it's one more thing floating around in the the ether, as I, I don't know, get caught in the windmills of my mind and, you know, keep digging deeper and deeper into the prompt lines.
00;04;25;28 - 00;04;26;07
Aaron
Yeah.
00;04;26;08 - 00;04;45;12
Pri
Question for you because I've thought about it myself. Do you feel like you're becoming more of like a boring person because you're talking to the box? I feel like we touched on this last week, but it's just like, I feel like I used to like and I actually am going to write a piece of on this, like a little bit about my journal journey and like what you said about people getting inward.
00;04;45;12 - 00;04;54;00
Pri
I've been like musing on that a lot, but do you feel like you've become a more interesting person just in a different way or less interesting?
00;04;54;02 - 00;05;29;09
Chris
Oh yeah, that's a really loaded question. I tend to be one of those people. What's the expression? I think it might be like attribute it to someone, but be very boring in your life so you can be wild in your work, right? Like I tend to adopt that pattern. I have an incredibly rich inner life and my brain is like a I think they said about Bruce Springsteen, like his songs just go on and on and on because he can't turn his brain off, and he just keeps cramming all these characters and these stories and etcetera, etcetera, into them, and it keeps them up at night and just writing and working.
00;05;29;09 - 00;06;00;04
Chris
And my mind works kind of a similar way. And so, you know, there's that aspect of it. And then once you, I think you start getting so far out and you get so deep into these projects, like, you can't really talk about them with other people, because to just get them to the point of the things you're, you're like obsessing over would require such a like a degree of backstory, feeling and back knowledge and getting them up to speed that you're just like, I'm already exhausted by this.
00;06;00;04 - 00;06;07;08
Chris
I don't want to spend an hour trying to teach you what the hell is driving me crazy? Because it's so crazy.
00;06;07;09 - 00;06;25;08
Pri
Yeah, it's so individualistic. Like. And I also on the other side of it, I don't think other people care. Like, it's so personal that it's like it doesn't. It's not like. It's like a personal inner feeling. It's like personal work that you're hammering out with someone. Like. It's like telling other people about your dreams. Like no one gives a shit about your dreams.
00;06;25;08 - 00;06;27;26
Pri
Really. I know it's.
00;06;27;26 - 00;06;29;06
Chris
Like they do not.
00;06;29;08 - 00;06;59;26
Pri
Unless you're the other person is in them. No one cares. So I was just kind of curious because I. I do think you obviously I've known you for a very long time now, but like I do think you do have a very rich inner life, but I it's more I'm projecting my own like sensibilities that I feel like I've become more boring because of this, like inwardness that's happening and but and it's also not and usually of interesting things to talk about with people like I don't really have.
00;06;59;26 - 00;07;24;24
Pri
I'm like, not like as, like plugged in and reading and you know, all, you know, really locked into all these other like, movements and trends because I'm just like in my inward little bubble. Yeah. And I feel like therefore it's made me a less interesting person publicly because there's like not publicly, but just to my peers because I'm just like so focused on I'm like like if it's like tonight, I'm like, yeah.
00;07;24;27 - 00;07;47;13
Pri
I'm like literally productivity maxing. Like if it's like 10:00 and I'm kind of half watching a TV show, I'm like, oh, what discount can I get? Like, let's see what the agent can do. Like I just am constantly hammering it or like planning things and doing things. It's just like it's I guess in a way it's had me getting out there more because I'm just like, oh yeah, that like art exhibit that I forgot about.
00;07;47;14 - 00;08;09;21
Pri
I have it in my calendar now, so maybe I'll actually go. But on the other end, it's like I'm kind of overdoing it to the point where I like, used to have things to talk about or like I used to actually, like read more than I do now. I'm like replacing reading, listening to podcasts, absorbing culture, thinking about the world around me with like just hammering into machine.
00;08;09;21 - 00;08;21;02
Pri
And I'm curious if if that's how you guys are feeling, like I'm literally like lamer now than I was like a year ago, or maybe I'm just getting older and that's the inevitable path.
00;08;21;05 - 00;08;41;07
Chris
Well, that's the thing is that they weren't they work together. They work in conjunction with each other. Right? Like part of part of this is like, I know no one gives a shit, right? Like that. This isn't a way, like talking about your dreams. And, you know, I did have this whole, like, search for meaning after I burnt out.
00;08;41;07 - 00;09;15;26
Chris
After being a founder, I did have this confrontation with nihilism. I did go on this whole journey of like, you know, reading deeply about philosophy and like, just seeking and at the end of the day, like the answers that rang true for me was like, you know, you can either believe in God and you can kind of get on this whole religious, greater purpose sort of thing, you know, or you can just like, confront the reality of an indifferent world, and you can do the things that give meaning to you and that you find the things that are important to you.
00;09;15;26 - 00;09;35;28
Chris
And every day you get up and you try to be better at doing those things right. And you know, that boils down to like your family, your close relationships. But then like as a productive expression that really, like kind of ends up being work and like, what work do you find meaningful? What do you take satisfaction from doing?
00;09;35;28 - 00;10;02;25
Chris
And, you know, I've just come to this place where like, what works for me is taking on incredibly ambitious, like solo projects and seeing if I can pull them off or not. And, like, that sort of choice, you know, sends you down a certain pathway that, you know, definitely like involves a little bit of isolation, involves a little bit of like standing apart from everything else and, you know, like testing yourself.
00;10;02;25 - 00;10;20;05
Chris
But you can't have that both ways, you know, like you can't want to focus in and see what you're capable of doing and try to realize certain things in your head. And, you know, expect everyone to want to go along for that ride or care about it or you know what I mean? Like, there's trade offs and every decision you make.
00;10;20;06 - 00;10;43;19
Chris
And so, like, I think the work that I'm interested in doing at this moment in life. Right, because I don't think it's going to be this way forever. But, you know, it's like I, I've been a builder. I'm a system designer and product designer. I've always been constrained. I've been constrained by what it costs to build things. Who gives you that money and what I have to do in exchange for that.
00;10;43;19 - 00;11;13;13
Chris
And now I'm not constrained by that. And so I'm just like literally trying to, you know, empty all the desk drawers in my head and bring that to life in a project. And so, you know, like everything's a decision, everything's a trade off. And I do think, you know, part of that trade off pre is I've gone into like such a deeply personal, specialized like layer of knowledge and effort that it does make me a boring person, you know, one because I'm spending all my time pursuing it.
00;11;13;13 - 00;11;38;09
Chris
But to like it's just not like readily translatable. And you know, one day they will hopefully be a product and people can see that product. They can get it through their experience in that. But like their experience of that product is going to be completely different than my experience of like the person who built it and how I built it and the satisfaction, you know, I hopefully take from the process of building it.
00;11;38;09 - 00;11;40;09
Chris
There are two entirely different things.
00;11;40;14 - 00;11;41;27
Pri
Yeah, you're totally right.
00;11;42;01 - 00;12;02;21
Aaron
It's weird because I'm having the opposite experience where I, I just, you know, you you can check how much time you spend on your phone and like, mine has been going down, like, pretty dramatically. So it's it definitely like, fills the time. But I feel like I'm spending less time exclusively in front of a screen.
00;12;02;25 - 00;12;04;23
Pri
What are you feeling that time with?
00;12;04;25 - 00;12;30;00
Aaron
I mean, I will fill that with like, I think, Chris, you were doing this and I've been doing this increasingly, just like having a book by your side or like a long form article. And I'll just kind of have ten minutes, 15 minutes to read something that I want to read. I don't know, I just feel like it's not it's not as like intense as kind of like traditional office work, like I'd say.
00;12;30;01 - 00;12;47;25
Pri
I would argue it's definitely not as intense. It's like frictionless to be productive. So that's why you're doing more of the it's kind of that argument. Just like now I'm like, fine. I'm like going into the depths of my credit card statement and like arguing random stuff that I would never normally do because I'm just like, why not?
00;12;47;26 - 00;12;49;14
Pri
I don't think I.
00;12;49;14 - 00;12;50;16
Aaron
Just I would.
00;12;50;19 - 00;13;01;22
Pri
Not doing that. Yeah, yeah. I guess I'm just like curious to I'm like kind of like really enjoying the process of seeing how much I can get out.
00;13;01;23 - 00;13;04;05
Chris
You're trying to get on top of the world.
00;13;04;10 - 00;13;24;27
Pri
Yeah, basically like because I've never done that. Like I've never. Well, the reason it's a choice, like I've always known that that exists. I'm like, I probably overpay for a bunch of stuff for I probably have like 5 million things that I'm like, you know, doing here that I'm paying for, that I shouldn't be, but I'm just like, it's not my time is to valuable to like, go and do it.
00;13;24;27 - 00;13;29;03
Pri
And now I'm like, oh, maybe, maybe I can actually get my bills down.
00;13;29;05 - 00;13;29;22
Aaron
Yeah.
00;13;29;23 - 00;13;30;04
Pri
And like.
00;13;30;04 - 00;13;30;08
Aaron
I'll.
00;13;30;08 - 00;13;44;19
Pri
See these examples on Twitter. Yeah, I think it might subside because I'm going to start to it's starting to get annoying. Like I'm like I don't give a shit. I just like can't believe I like, did this to save like $20 a month. Like, no.
00;13;44;22 - 00;13;52;13
Chris
You know, we're going to start calling you. We're going to start calling you inbox zero pre you sustain inbox zero mode.
00;13;52;13 - 00;13;58;06
Pri
I'm I love being in boxer. I literally I will open and like I think every two hours.
00;13;58;06 - 00;13;59;08
Aaron
I'm like.
00;13;59;10 - 00;14;29;16
Chris
Oh I'm the opposite. I'm like I'm so yeah like I, I scream things so hard and I only answer things I absolutely have to do. I keep it very, very minimal, you know? And some of that's just my personality, some of that, I don't know, you know, the, the cost of time or like just avoiding things that can snowball into, you know, more and more asks of me.
00;14;29;16 - 00;14;47;29
Chris
And so like I remained like very standoffish and very minimal in my interactions. And I do what I have to do. I take care of my business. I don't go any further than that, you know? So like my inbox, God knows. You know, like, I, I don't check email every day, like I'm just I'm, I'm one of those people now.
00;14;48;01 - 00;14;48;29
Chris
So, you know, I.
00;14;48;29 - 00;15;02;28
Chris
Just think it's a reaction to like how I lived in my 30s, you know, like, I didn't like the person I became when I was stretched too wide. I had too many responsibilities, and I was constantly doing a million small tasks. Right. Like.
00;15;03;00 - 00;15;04;06
Pri
Wow, that's like.
00;15;04;08 - 00;15;21;07
Chris
I'm just having a real reaction to it. Yeah. And like, you know, like, I was fortunate enough we got acquired. I got to like, you know, change demands on of of on me. And, you know, like, the new guy just doesn't want to deal with any of that shit.
00;15;21;09 - 00;15;22;18
Pri
Wow.
00;15;22;20 - 00;15;31;06
Aaron
Aspirational a counter reaction, Chris. It's like you, you overdose on on the other the other bits, I get that. Yeah.
00;15;31;08 - 00;16;02;21
Chris
You know, I think the other thing that's going on here is I think we're at a time in which there aren't incentives for participation. You know, like the last thing I was very, very like heavily involved with from, like a collective partition participation. Right. Was the whole like Covid through, you know, 2223 eath explosion. Right. And I drew a lot of meaning from being a participant during that time.
00;16;02;21 - 00;16;28;13
Chris
It was actually incredibly refreshing to like working in the DAOs with you guys. Right? Like to be in an environment in which people could come together and collectively decide on things in, like these nonhierarchical structures that didn't necessarily have ego. We were in a rising tide, you know, sort of experience. And we were all very, very open to things.
00;16;28;14 - 00;16;31;29
Chris
Right? Like that was actually like a great.
00;16;32;00 - 00;16;32;24
Pri
So fun.
00;16;32;29 - 00;17;02;27
Chris
Yeah. No. And it was like so different than my last couple of years as an operator, you know, in which, like, every day was like survival, every day was a battle. You had people inside your own organization working against you. You, you know, like there are just so many things that when this rolled around, I really embraced it because it was a whole other way of being and doing things that, you know, it was optimistic and it was renewing.
00;17;03;04 - 00;17;35;07
Chris
Now the problem is right. Like ultimately other people entered the space. We you know, we've talked about the Commons problem in the past and, you know, like a different mindset of like PvP extraction and, you know, just the larger failure of the space to achieve, you know, meaningful impact in that cycle. Yeah. I'm not going to say like it was all for not because it wasn't, but it clearly it had a limit both in what it was capable of doing and like a limit in time.
00;17;35;09 - 00;18;10;19
Chris
And we just haven't come back to that. Right. Like, you know, the whole AI thing I think is really more about like, how far is you as an individual or as a lean group can get at, you know, with a particular set of new tools? It's like everyone's in the workshop. And so, you know, like the thing, I guess the things that I'm like, really excited about exploring right now, right, like have a very different set of properties and a very different set of experiences around them, you know, and to like that changes your personality, that changes who you are.
00;18;10;21 - 00;18;16;28
Chris
You know, your your tools shape your outlook more than you want to admit. And, you know, this is certainly a case of that.
00;18;17;03 - 00;18;20;13
Pri
Yeah, you're not wrong. But I think.
00;18;20;15 - 00;18;24;04
Aaron
I was going to say you're right. But sure, you're not wrong. Yeah.
00;18;24;09 - 00;18;26;03
Pri
No, you're not wrong. I mean.
00;18;26;04 - 00;18;29;07
Chris
Am I less wrong? Can we bring that one up?
00;18;29;09 - 00;18;32;25
Pri
Oh, less. Do you ever read their stuff? I only want to.
00;18;33;01 - 00;18;35;06
Aaron
Read it occasionally. Nice.
00;18;35;08 - 00;18;42;19
Chris
No, I was like I was busy beginning operator. I didn't have time for, like, that sort of fit. And I'm not a rationalist necessarily either.
00;18;42;21 - 00;18;47;25
Aaron
It's good to know about it. You know, it's nothing wrong with people writing their thoughts.
00;18;47;27 - 00;19;10;07
Chris
But yeah, no, it's nothing wrong. Like, you know, I'm not trash yet. I'm just saying, like when that stuff was coming to to prominence. Right? Like, I was in a much different stage in my life than, like, you know, let's not forget where we are age wise and that, like, that's a community of, you know, people under 20s who have different world experiences and view the world differently.
00;19;10;08 - 00;19;24;08
Chris
You know, it's like an ongoing. Right. Like, you can see through a lot of these things very, very quickly. Like they hold up in theory or like contemptuously, but like they don't account for the complexity and the messiness of, like, being a human in an interconnected world.
00;19;24;14 - 00;19;25;03
Pri
Yeah.
00;19;25;07 - 00;19;34;18
Aaron
I think that's true. I don't know, I feel like you're are you are you also experiencing any psychosis pre or just you're just productivity maxing?
00;19;34;18 - 00;19;57;02
Pri
I think I'm like also psychosis like most of I would say most of I mean I used to talk to my friends more. I used to talk to like, you know, even like let's call it like, you know, Dow chats, like all, all of the people. I feel like I used to just be more social, even if it was like a, you know, through Twitter or VMs or even like telegram groups, you know, our discord.
00;19;57;06 - 00;20;23;25
Pri
I think I used to do that. I think I've sort of replaced a lot of that, like digital socialization, texting, all that. Like if I'm on my phone, I'm like probably talking to instinct or something, like it's I'm not like cruising Instagram or like even really reading my Twitter feed as much. So again, is it just like momentary, like absorption of a new technology.
00;20;23;25 - 00;20;31;09
Pri
And so I'm just like totally sucked in. Like, if that's the case, then yeah, maybe it's a psychosis and like I'll reorient to like other stuff.
00;20;31;15 - 00;20;33;26
Aaron
It's dopamine. Right. Like I think that, like.
00;20;33;27 - 00;20;37;04
Pri
So you just open mine, but I'm not on it as much.
00;20;37;09 - 00;20;46;23
Chris
Well, you've numbed those receptors because they're delivering the same thing over and over and over again, just in different packaging.
00;20;46;26 - 00;20;53;28
Pri
I know my now is like is like productivity maxing. Like I'm getting dopamine hits from like, well, getting my life together.
00;20;54;00 - 00;21;07;09
Aaron
Well, I think that there's like a sense of completion you have on these tasks and there's like a little like dopamine hit that that's happening there happens for people that you know, or like quote unquote, like workaholics. So there's.
00;21;07;10 - 00;21;12;17
Chris
Yeah, like the satisfaction of making something, the satisfaction of accomplishing something.
00;21;12;23 - 00;21;25;17
Pri
And it happened so fast. So it is like a social media. It's like a like because it that has that like feedback loop of like getting work done so quickly that like you, you know, it does feel like a quick hit.
00;21;25;19 - 00;21;28;11
Chris
Yep. It's not a quick hit for me. It stays in.
00;21;28;16 - 00;21;28;24
Pri
A lot.
00;21;28;24 - 00;21;30;29
Chris
Of my iterating and pulling my hair out.
00;21;31;00 - 00;21;38;02
Pri
Some of my stuff is like a quick hit, like saving a 30 bucks a month on on. It is like a pretty quick hit, like.
00;21;38;03 - 00;21;42;06
Aaron
Oh, pre get out. I put the box, stop talking to the.
00;21;42;08 - 00;21;44;08
Pri
Really bad example. But even just like.
00;21;44;10 - 00;21;45;12
Aaron
I want.
00;21;45;12 - 00;21;45;14
Pri
To.
00;21;45;14 - 00;21;46;09
Aaron
Like.
00;21;46;11 - 00;22;04;18
Pri
Like book tickets to a show, like I like saw a Substack article, I came through and it's like Robert Patterson's producing a show I put the link into. I was like, book tickets, look at my calendar, see what data. And I'm like doing it. And I'm like, cool. Yeah. Like I'm doing cool stuff because, you know, there's like a thousand examples of that.
00;22;04;19 - 00;22;23;17
Pri
Whereas like, I think before I used to just doom scroll, but at least in my doom school is kind of like learning about stuff. Like I kind of miss being on Twitter and like digging around and finding like niche, interesting things like my Internet Explorer stumble upon vibe has like shifted completely and it's like super depressing. I need to like, regret.
00;22;23;18 - 00;22;44;03
Aaron
I don't know if that's like really happens with the at least X algorithm. Now, you don't really, like learn new things. You get like more of the same stuff you clicked. So which is I guess, the same as every other, you know, social platform at this point. It doesn't like push you to the edge. It kind of pushes you to the like a common context.
00;22;44;03 - 00;22;47;14
Chris
And often that context is just a shared bitch fest.
00;22;47;17 - 00;23;07;18
Aaron
Yeah. Or it's just like, do I need to see the 500th like jet, like fake Jeff, you know, like use case which which probably is just a completely manufactured or another like Claude opus 5.5 like JavaScript video. That's stupid.
00;23;07;18 - 00;23;27;28
Pri
I actually will say on when it comes to tech news and like just frontier tech, I'm getting a little bit more out of podcast than Twitter, but that wasn't always the case. I feel like maybe because social media has gotten a little bit noisier because of AI, like there's like a lot of like fake shit out there, like more than normal and like, for some reason, like, like listening just to like a tech podcast.
00;23;27;28 - 00;23;37;27
Pri
I'm like, oh yeah, okay. It's delayed, though. It's not as bleeding edge, but like, you can kind of get a more comprehensive view on podcasts than like Twitter, which I used to typically lean on.
00;23;37;28 - 00;24;00;09
Chris
Yeah, the collective is definitely caught in this moment of like recursive paralysis over, I don't know, like things that no one can actually resolve or things that don't affect you. And like, I think that's part of the reason, you know, people were like, oh, you want to talk about the Iran war? It's like, no, I don't want to talk about the Iran war, because it's just an endless loop of a stalemate.
00;24;00;10 - 00;24;04;11
Chris
Like, what is there to talk about that was any different than what we talked about in March?
00;24;04;16 - 00;24;05;01
Aaron
I do feel.
00;24;05;01 - 00;24;07;01
Chris
Very fast. Prices are too damn high.
00;24;07;09 - 00;24;08;18
Aaron
Yeah, well, that's why.
00;24;08;20 - 00;24;28;01
Pri
I neglecting that. I like that's a perfect example of something that I would be all over and know every detail about. But like, I've just chose chosen to opt out of that whole thing. And people talk about I'm like, okay, it's the same thing. Like I would like five years ago, I had no details. I don't really know that anymore.
00;24;28;03 - 00;24;45;28
Chris
Or like the upcoming midterms, it's like, oh my God, what if the Democrats flipped the House and you're like, yes, okay. If they flip the House, nothing really changes. You just have like a different set of like stalemates driven by a different agenda. And like, you know, like all events still lead to nothingness.
00;24;46;00 - 00;24;47;24
Pri
You know, that's what it is. I become nice.
00;24;47;27 - 00;24;59;19
Aaron
You guys are living well. No, you're you're all you're just Chad. Chad's yes, sir is amazing. Or however you pronounce it and you're just getting upset about that. But maybe it's the right posture.
00;24;59;20 - 00;24;59;25
Chris
No.
00;24;59;25 - 00;25;00;10
Aaron
I.
00;25;00;13 - 00;25;15;12
Chris
Just no longer get upset about it. Right. And in my life, it's I Chad's are done getting upset about things maybe. Or you know, maybe some people still are. But like, we're all the monitoring the situation, bros. No one's monitoring the situations anymore.
00;25;15;14 - 00;25;16;24
Aaron
Yeah, it's just kind of like.
00;25;16;25 - 00;25;18;06
Pri
That's a good point. Actually.
00;25;18;07 - 00;25;38;11
Aaron
We know the situation. It's unpleasant. And until you stop giving the extreme folks that attention, it's not going to recenter. So like, the right posture is actually to just it's not really nihilistic because I do think pretty you probably at your core still care about things. It's just like it's not worth your attention. And it's.
00;25;38;14 - 00;25;38;29
Pri
I think that's what.
00;25;38;29 - 00;25;46;00
Aaron
It is. It's much more getting to the maximize your, your your electric. I don't mean.
00;25;46;03 - 00;26;11;15
Pri
Yeah I don't mean hit of like maximizing bills and like getting good reservations places is like hitting hard my real life as far as, like things I'm doing, going out, trying, I will say like it's become more enriched as a result of my, like, talking into the box, like I'm doing cooler shit. I'm going to better restaurants. Like, I'm like like seeing shows that I wanted to like or I would that are interesting.
00;26;11;15 - 00;26;33;02
Pri
And so like it is in a weird way, like enriching my public life in that way, but like my digital absorption of information and culture and trends, which is downstream of the internet, obviously, we all know that is just gone down. Like I'm like becoming more normie, I think. And it's upsetting. Anyway, sorry.
00;26;33;05 - 00;26;43;05
Chris
Being on the frontier is making you more normal. That's that's where you're landing. Zero inbox free is just becoming more normal person and you're missing it. I'm a little.
00;26;43;10 - 00;27;08;26
Pri
I kind of miss like, no, no, I'm like a normal person that I'm like, experiencing little things and doing all that I'm like. But I think what made me interesting was like the hyper like like being able to like pattern, match what's happening online and like, you know, trend forecast and like understand what's next and like really have a deep appreciation around the world around me and like get into to certain niche, you know, really weird niches.
00;27;08;26 - 00;27;11;15
Pri
And I feel like I don't do that as much anymore.
00;27;11;17 - 00;27;43;15
Chris
Okay. That's an interesting thing, right? Because yes, I definitely had a whole period in my life where like being predictive, being able to see around corners, you know, being 15 minutes ahead of everyone. Right? That was something I was very much leaning into. And, you know, I don't think that behavior is necessarily change, like the way I'm designing and building right now, I have no clue of anyone is like even in the same like Galaxy is what the hell I'm doing.
00;27;43;22 - 00;27;59;28
Chris
But like, my desire to like, want to share that, express that, prove that, or like somehow participate and be like, oh, look at me. I'm doing, you know, like none of that exists anymore. And if it's destroyed that.
00;28;00;02 - 00;28;04;24
Pri
Let's come back. It's been a fun week for those, but sorry, Aaron, were you about to say something?
00;28;04;27 - 00;28;28;00
Aaron
I was going to say I wonder if the like, social AI like experiences, like your agents working with other agents and you could kind of get a download will happen about a year from now, just because I think it's still too pricey to kind of have like either like a crock pot or like some, you know, some system that can, you know, check things.
00;28;28;02 - 00;28;53;19
Aaron
I like the heartbeats that you need for a lot of these things, but I don't think it will be next year. I bet there's going to be something that's almost like a like Jeb, like cost, but but can do a lot of like the the like checking, participating, chatting. And if that's the case, I wonder if it like opens up, you know, some more collaborative play elements instead of everybody productivity maxing or whatever.
00;28;53;20 - 00;29;16;25
Chris
Yeah. Another way to frame this is I think the benefits of network coordination are now like have been sitting on a plateau for the last 3 or 4 years and are still waiting for like that. Next, unlock to then open new things. Because I do think that was a big part of the whole excitement around like the Ethereum experience.
00;29;16;27 - 00;29;23;14
Pri
Yeah, totally. I think that's really well said. We haven't gotten there yet in the AI journey.
00;29;23;16 - 00;29;36;13
Aaron
I think it's just a cost thing though. And like it's going to change you. Just the cost curve needs to bend down just a little bit more. And then I think a lot of this stuff starts opening up. So yeah because I think it.
00;29;36;16 - 00;29;38;09
Chris
Can I kind.
00;29;38;11 - 00;29;39;11
Aaron
Yeah go for it.
00;29;39;15 - 00;29;45;02
Chris
I r f title right now so that Finkle doesn't bug us afterwards.
00;29;45;05 - 00;29;46;02
Aaron
Sure.
00;29;46;05 - 00;29;53;08
Chris
Inward maxing on the plateau of network connectivity. So that's a multiple. We'll have to reduce that down, but.
00;29;53;13 - 00;29;56;03
Pri
We'll see what AI can can come up with to.
00;29;56;08 - 00;29;58;09
Aaron
We don't need to see what AI.
00;29;58;13 - 00;30;03;04
Pri
I can't think I can't think now by myself. I need to ask everything.
00;30;03;09 - 00;30;05;01
Aaron
Yeah, I think that that's kind of.
00;30;05;05 - 00;30;08;02
Chris
Zero inbox on the networked plateau.
00;30;08;04 - 00;30;28;11
Aaron
There we go. But I do think it's like a it's just a cost problem at this point. But it's probably healthy if, if you're not alone. Pre and Chris like doing a more inward journey. But I do think people will venture outwards because you kind of see it right now. Right. Like the the AI is like the frontier.
00;30;28;11 - 00;31;01;21
Aaron
And so it's getting more social and then it's going to pull us to become more social too, and hopefully a more waiting. Yeah, I just think these things are more rational too. So like it will be a more pleasant experience and they're better able at like filtering stuff out. So, you know, maybe maybe because the A's are better at filtering, they're better at like sorting that some of like the dark forest concepts just emerge, but not in the darkness, but just on the light of the internet with like AI sentinels like around it.
00;31;01;24 - 00;31;24;28
Chris
Very, very possible. Or we could have complete and total regulatory capture that will take all the fun out of this. And we'll be talking about frontier AI five years from now. Same way we talk about ETH being a stablecoin issuance secure, and they've taken the fun out of everything. I certainly hope not. But you know what I mean.
00;31;25;01 - 00;31;25;10
Chris
Yeah.
00;31;25;11 - 00;31;27;09
Aaron
Like completely.
00;31;27;16 - 00;31;51;10
Chris
I mean that's the benefit, right? That's why I like I spend all my time on the frontier is because there's no playbooks. There's no rules. Like that's what I get off on is figuring things out as you go. I like being up on the wire. I like not having map destinations. Like, that's the sort of stuff that makes me like, feel alive and challenges me.
00;31;51;17 - 00;31;54;19
Chris
Yeah. Like once something's known, it's not a challenge to me anymore.
00;31;54;21 - 00;31;57;17
Aaron
Yeah, I get that feeling, Chris. Like, deeply.
00;31;57;23 - 00;31;59;10
Chris
I get bored too easily.
00;31;59;15 - 00;32;01;05
Aaron
I know it's a bummer.
00;32;01;07 - 00;32;36;15
Pri
Just on the. I've been thinking more lately. Just because you guys were mentioning crypto is. I do think we're pretty close to like, the agenda. I saw that muse is doing like, agent wallets and all of that like I do, and the stablecoin stuff is kicking up. I do think the AI finance agenda like whatever flows, especially between like Muse and Amazon and all of that, like I think like and then even the privacy stuff with instinct and there there's going to need to be like proper agent identity so that they can interact in a safe way.
00;32;36;17 - 00;32;50;04
Pri
You know, whose agent is belongs to who? Like, I do feel like the crypto AI stuff it. I don't know if that's going to like I'm sure we'll get like the bull run, but I think it's definitely primed to go. Like, I feel like it's time.
00;32;50;09 - 00;33;13;25
Aaron
It's inevitable. I mean, because the, the I mean, I mentioned this, I think last show, but you know, I think we're going to quickly learn that capitalism is the best way to get alignment of AI's. And it's that means you got to merge AI with finance. I mean, Blackrock came out with a pretty long paper just talking about how it sees the two tech trends combining together.
00;33;13;26 - 00;33;33;23
Aaron
I mean, they kind of anchored it on tokenized, you know, compute markets. I don't know if that materializes. I still have some like mental gaps that I don't see in that type of model. But I think something in that vein is definitely going to pop off. And I do think that a genetic traffic is just going to explode.
00;33;33;23 - 00;33;41;29
Aaron
So anything that benefits from high volumes, which crypto is one of those ecosystems, is just going to go parabolic.
00;33;42;01 - 00;34;05;28
Chris
And that's the danger, right? Like let's get into a little crossfire here, Aaron, because I know you you view this in a positive light right? I'm going to come and give you the other version of this, which is money ruins everything interesting, creative and like just unknown. And that's part of the reason, like, I always have to be out in the frontier.
00;34;05;28 - 00;34;39;04
Chris
But once you start getting money involved in your system, right, everything then becomes market based ordering. And once you get into the world of market based ordering, you have two, two things that like start like, well, you have multiple things, but let's say we have three things that pop up that ruin the party, right? The first thing is homogenization because market based ordering requires a uniformity and a flattening of everything to fit into market based flow type of stuff.
00;34;39;11 - 00;35;06;16
Chris
The second issue is once money is involved, it becomes a contested space. It's a contested space on the regulatory side because money is power. Power is money, and all politics is funded by money. And so you are what you're saying. That was previously wide open and totally greenfield is now bogged down and all this legged, this legacy power battle, right.
00;35;06;17 - 00;35;30;13
Chris
That just travels from like one thing to the next to the next is now like camped out on your thing. Then the third issue is extraction. The whole world is nothing but like arbitrage, funny pot extraction. Like you're now entering into the world of allocators and bandits, right? And that's like another sort of battle that starts emerging around everything.
00;35;30;19 - 00;35;56;22
Chris
And so if you're excited about a genetic commerce and wallets on agents and crypto being attached to all of that, right. It all comes with trade offs. And the trade offs is what used to be wide open and completely free for you to do whatever the fuck you want and figure out now becomes as converged traffic disputed space in which only certain sets of actions are allowed.
00;35;56;23 - 00;36;19;21
Chris
And if you start doing things outside of that, you're a bandit or you're not in compliance with like, you know what? You can't even do those things because guardrails are now added to the tools that you use. So that's like, to me, the scary part of this you have, you see the good and everything. So the floor is yours.
00;36;19;27 - 00;36;41;15
Aaron
I don't know if I see I mean, I do tend to see the good in things. I just think I think that's right. But the I think they're going to be I guess the only point that I think may change that and it may and it doesn't mean that you're not, you know, partially to fully right here, Chris, and some of the downsides, I think these agents are just going to prove to be more rational.
00;36;41;15 - 00;37;03;04
Aaron
And a lot of those downsides are just caused by irrationality. And I think you're going to be able to put in guardrails in ways that you can't put in guardrails. Let's say, to the other swarms that we've seen like Jen's right. Like there's no guardrails that you can put in place there, but I think there's going to be more opportunity to do that for like a financial agent.
00;37;03;06 - 00;37;14;02
Aaron
It's going to be a little bit more rational, maybe a little bit better able to kind of stick to the the rules. Maybe that's maybe that's kind of soften some of the downsides related to it.
00;37;14;04 - 00;37;21;03
Chris
Yeah. I can't wait till anthropic is telling me what I can and can't do to the hundredth degree.
00;37;21;09 - 00;37;50;13
Aaron
Yeah, I mean, that that piece I don't love. But I do think that the model ecosystems broad enough that there's competitive pressures against that. I do also think that the like converging aspects of like the models where they kind of all converge on the same points where everybody's kind of asking and running the same questions through it means that there should be opportunities for people to figure out ways to kind of break that, like homogeneity, which is opportunities for profit.
00;37;50;14 - 00;38;15;28
Aaron
I do think like also having systems that are a bit more self-sustaining is probably a net benefit for folks, you know, like nothing pulls more people in than the opportunity to make money. I mean, we know that in crypto, right? So I just think that it's it probably will just be pretty interesting. Not not discounting the fact that there could be a bunch of downsides to it too.
00;38;16;05 - 00;38;22;15
Pri
But I mean, every tech has upside and downsides. But we're here for the upside. You know.
00;38;22;17 - 00;38;44;14
Chris
The upside. The fewer people around, the more upside there is. More the more people pile on, the more downside gets attached to it. And so like, I mean, come on, we just hit this tipping point around AI safety. And now Bernie Sanders is out there like, you know, basically what's the opposite of techno fascism. You know what I mean?
00;38;44;15 - 00;38;54;20
Chris
Like he he wants to he's got a stupid bill out there, which I'm sure is just a stunt. Right. But like 20 years in jail for. Yeah. Like, you know, doing bad progress.
00;38;54;25 - 00;39;00;09
Aaron
It's the warm embrace of collective collectivism. Chris. I think that's what you were grasping for.
00;39;00;11 - 00;39;03;13
Chris
It's cold and Vermont, man. And it's really cold up there.
00;39;03;14 - 00;39;04;28
Aaron
It's always been cold there.
00;39;05;05 - 00;39;28;14
Pri
Do you? I mean, it is I mean, this is very I was just thinking about asking this question about I'm like, it's a very exo capitalism, like that book coded, but like what happens to markets and like, just the world as commerce like quadrupled and you have more market participants, like, do you get more efficiency or do you get just like frenetic, crazy energy?
00;39;28;15 - 00;39;29;22
Pri
Like, I don't actually.
00;39;29;26 - 00;40;00;15
Aaron
I think I think you'll get less if they're more rational, then you'd assume that you're not going to get as much frenetic, crazy energy. Number one. Number two, this thesis should be able to absorb more context so they can see kind of like knock on benefits or risks, etc.. So it should theoretically be more stable. And number three, I think the same effort that people put in and a lot of people do this to like managing their finances, just like people spend a lot of effort.
00;40;00;15 - 00;40;18;10
Aaron
And as you guys were described before, you're spending less effort kind of monitoring your information feed. I think it's going to be the same thing for finance. So I actually think it gets abstracted away from you as a person. And I think more and more stuff is going to get abstracted away. And that has its positives and negatives.
00;40;18;10 - 00;40;35;26
Aaron
But I think that that's just like the long term trend. So you're not going to you're going to have like a buffer for your information feed. You're going to have systems that are, you know, managing your finances more autonomously, you know, and maybe that will open up more time for other stuff. Touch and grass.
00;40;36;03 - 00;41;07;19
Chris
I think you're going to end up with more k shaped outcomes within the actual US economy itself. Like not on a personal level, but on the level of like the entire economic system in which greater efficiency drives margins down, sends them to near zero, and things that used to be able to be a business living on, you know, just like, hey, look, I make widgets and I put a 30% margin on widgets.
00;41;07;19 - 00;41;26;10
Chris
And, you know, I'm buying a freaking widgets because there's ten widget makers and we all have 30% margins because we all agreed to it like that, sort of like, you know, or the sass lips. Right? Like all of that stuff is going to get severely compressed because there is no more value in it. It's become everyday in common place.
00;41;26;13 - 00;41;56;27
Chris
I think on the other extreme, then AI is going to allow for more and more complex and baroque financial engineering and balance sheet manipulation and like creating, you know, synthetics reconstructions that layer on top of, on top of, on top of actual like primary productivity. And this stuff could just get really opaque and, you know, yeah, you might you might end up with just two different extremes, like both coming out of the same set of technologies.
00;41;56;29 - 00;42;18;21
Chris
Yeah. Like the simple stuff could go to zero and then like that's going to force people who don't want to like, operate on 2% margins. Right. Like future people are going to be like, oh my God, I need to like, get, you know, I need to be like this Walters guy running the Dodgers and, you know, just spin up the most insane and complex things and hope no one notices.
00;42;18;22 - 00;42;46;12
Aaron
I think that that definitely will happen, Chris. It's like if if these systems can already crack every complicated math problem, like, imagine the complex financial instruments that they'll be able to to put together. I mean, we may not even understand them. Like maybe that's a job of the future. Just like trying to, like, unravel and follow, like some of the complicated instruments that the financial instruments that these AI systems are generating.
00;42;46;14 - 00;42;50;03
Chris
Forensic AI accounting. That's. Yeah. Sounds great industry.
00;42;50;07 - 00;42;51;15
Pri
Terrible job.
00;42;51;16 - 00;42;57;03
Aaron
I think a lot of people would freaking love that job. I mean, we see folks in crypto do that job. You know, they already do that.
00;42;57;09 - 00;43;00;04
Pri
That sucks. Looking at on transactions like.
00;43;00;06 - 00;43;04;23
Aaron
Well, for you for you that stinks. But for some minds they love that stuff.
00;43;04;25 - 00;43;06;13
Pri
Nah I'm good.
00;43;06;16 - 00;43;28;22
Chris
Look, some some people are just like, hanging around like building in for in startups and in their spare time. They're deconstructing cultures, wash trading and know it inside and out and just sit on it until something triggers them. And then they're like, hey, look, this is a shit I do at night. And by the way, this, you know, massive growth company that's trying to IPO their House of cards.
00;43;28;29 - 00;43;35;04
Aaron
Well, I mean, did you see our great state Chris or and pre.
00;43;35;06 - 00;43;37;10
Chris
What is Letitia James up to today.
00;43;37;11 - 00;44;04;01
Aaron
They're bringing some actions against the prediction markets. So they're joining the ranks I think Arizona a couple other states have done the same thing. So they're claiming it's illegal. You know sports gambling. My my gut tells me and I don't know the allegations. It could be off base. So it's not fully informed. I just think that I think that they're going to get hemmed in by by courts and if not by courts, then by, you know, legislation.
00;44;04;04 - 00;44;39;24
Chris
You know, in the old days, like, I'd find this fascinating, right? This oh, my God, this is a compelling, you know, contention between two parties on the edge of, you know, progress, you know, trying to decide the boundaries of what's right and what's wrong. And nowadays it's just like, oh, cool. Here's another collision between, you know, regulators of one political persuasion and builders who probably have a different political persuasion and both have completely different worldviews, and one's trying to do whatever the fuck they want, and the other is going, well, that shit's weird.
00;44;39;26 - 00;45;01;07
Chris
And I know the people who, you know, keep us in power, like, are going to react to it poorly. And, oh, I could also probably take a $500 million settlement in. Let's go after them. You know, like you've seen this so many times and it just happens over and over again at the end of the day, like, none of this shit matters, right?
00;45;01;08 - 00;45;15;13
Chris
Like, like, who gives a shit about prediction markets? Like I don't on a practical level. Like I couldn't care. I couldn't care at all. Like something happens or it doesn't happen. Like the anticipation of it happening. Like I no longer care. Things just happen.
00;45;15;16 - 00;45;15;28
Aaron
Yeah.
00;45;15;29 - 00;45;23;06
Chris
So like I'm so blasé about like, oh my God, what's the future going to bring? It's going to be like, I don't just if you're just going to bring something.
00;45;23;08 - 00;45;27;09
Aaron
All right. Can I try something out or ask you a question?
00;45;27;12 - 00;45;28;21
Chris
This is a safe space. Aaron.
00;45;28;23 - 00;45;29;22
Pri
Yeah, okay.
00;45;29;25 - 00;45;30;06
Aaron
The question.
00;45;30;11 - 00;45;32;02
Chris
There's only five people listening.
00;45;32;04 - 00;45;35;27
Aaron
Yeah. So thanks. Thanks, listeners, for creating this safe space for me.
00;45;35;28 - 00;45;38;26
Pri
Thanks for wanting more.
00;45;38;28 - 00;45;40;23
Chris
Yeah, Ron, this one's for you, my man.
00;45;40;25 - 00;46;14;27
Aaron
All right. Do you think that, like, literally since the advent of TV and you can throw computers as part of it? We've just been increasingly a society of just voyeurism, and that juice is just no longer interesting. And we're turning back into, like, a society of like doers. And maybe that's part, part of what you're, you're feeling collectively, both in your AI psychosis and, you know, apparent apathy towards the fate of prediction markets react.
00;46;15;02 - 00;46;35;26
Chris
I don't want to give my time and attention to things I cannot influence or have any effect on the outcome of, and more and more, I've realized the things that capture our attention don't give you any real agency inside of them. And if I want to be a fan of something, right, and I want to be expected, I need spectator of football.
00;46;35;27 - 00;47;11;19
Chris
I'm going to be a fan of a book. I'm going to watch a TV show because at the end of the day, right, like if I give my attention and I give my like, time or like my thoughts or like my words to these things, that I have zero fucking control over, what I'm really doing is I'm validating one of the two sides in that, in that dispute or in that conversation, I'm giving them a proxy vote to keep enriching themselves or to keep building their own power base.
00;47;11;21 - 00;47;48;28
Chris
You know, this is like a very critical theory, you know, sort of like pilled view of the world. But at the end of the day, if I don't have an equal share and whatever's going on and I'm just being used, I've seen enough of that pattern. Now that it's a turn off for me right away. Like, you know, the end of the day, like it doesn't affect my life and you're just creating, you know, some sort of form of a controversy for two sides to use me as a pawn in their game, even if it's a tiny, tiny like it's a minuscule little, you know, like thing, a usage.
00;47;48;28 - 00;48;12;19
Chris
But like, this is how the system works. And this is what, you know, like they want to create this fog. They want to constantly have like a for and against on everything. The more deranged, the more batshit, the more like less meaningful it is, the better it is for them, because then there are no actual like repercussions or outcomes that they have to pay down, right?
00;48;12;20 - 00;48;23;10
Chris
The benefits of winning, you know, just stays up there at that level. And I don't want anything to do with that shit. And so that to me is why, like, you know.
00;48;23;11 - 00;48;26;00
Pri
Like, like manipulated by this system that you're.
00;48;26;02 - 00;48;33;23
Chris
Like, yeah, I don't want to be a mark. Yeah. And like, we've been marks for like the last 20, like, ever since we got this damn internet and ever since we threw everyone on there.
00;48;33;24 - 00;48;34;25
Aaron
Well, but maybe.
00;48;34;28 - 00;48;35;04
Chris
We're.
00;48;35;04 - 00;48;59;23
Aaron
Marked ever since we had TV. This is what I'm saying. So, like, literally since 1950 ish, like, we all be. I mean, that's what voyeurs do, right? You're not controlling anything. You're just watching. And so we've been just watching other people, you know, our attention has been harvested and now we're just less interested in that. Like we've got a better dopamine machine in getting stuff done.
00;48;59;23 - 00;49;22;10
Aaron
And, you know, a lot of that like concern like that, which kind of got ramped up to, you know, almost like hysterical levels over the past decade. It's just going to abate. I don't know, I feel like that that may be like the the big trend that's happening. And then the agents intermediate, we kind of like steer them.
00;49;22;10 - 00;49;33;03
Aaron
So it's a little bit more like active. You're in the driver's seat. You know, you can impact things to a certain degree. Maybe that's the the trend that's happening.
00;49;33;05 - 00;49;53;19
Chris
Yeah. There are always places in your life, in the world in which you have agency and you can exert control. And there are moments in time, I think, where anyone showing up to a thing can have like a real collective impact. Right? And like we can go back to like a theorem during that moment in time. It was a great example.
00;49;53;26 - 00;50;25;16
Chris
The problem is like those your participation become, you become a victim of its own success. And you know now like what impacts crypto is happening between Brian Armstrong, senators in Washington and Jamie Dimon and four short years. And so you always going to be looking for these other things, right. Like if you want to like live the vida activa, if you want to like have a public life.
00;50;25;18 - 00;50;47;26
Chris
Right. Like I think it ends up being like a barbell distribution of, you know, once something becomes settled and becomes commonplace. Right? Either you climb to the top of the food chain and you made that whole thing, your identity and that that becomes like the center of your life. And you can continue to have impact as it grows or you're a mark.
00;50;47;28 - 00;50;52;12
Chris
There's no middle ground anymore. I think once people sort this shit out.
00;50;52;15 - 00;51;08;21
Pri
I kind of agree, but I don't think that's new. I kind of think that there was like, I think the concept that you're talking about is just human nature and probably has existed since the beginning of time. And I think maybe if anything, technology has accelerated.
00;51;08;28 - 00;51;28;05
Chris
Or possibly probably like not going to everything we've done, every set of problems, like we're humans, right? And we do kind of spin around the same thing over and over and over again, but we spiral outwards and upwards as we do it. And so, yeah, like at the core, I think maybe what I'm describing is very much the same thing.
00;51;28;07 - 00;51;30;20
Chris
Like historically, you know, to your point.
00;51;30;25 - 00;51;56;08
Pri
It just feels more like pronounced now to Erin's point, like from like the television on like it probably just feels and like it wouldn't be surprised if that's part of the reason. Like you get like this populism wave and all of that. It's just like everyone feels like a mark. So why, you know, it's like a way to, you know, contradict that feeling or like, project that feeling in a way that you feel like you have control over.
00;51;56;15 - 00;52;26;02
Chris
It's also the opportunity cost of hanging in. Right, has changed because of this acceleration in how quickly things turn over or how many other opportunities there are. Right. Like, you know, what's that saying? May you live in interesting times. Like if we were in, you know, some really boring period in history where there weren't other choices, right then I'd be hanging in there because what else am I going to do in my time, you know?
00;52;26;09 - 00;52;55;06
Chris
But we now live in this world where, like I can say, like I'm maximally best in this certain set of situations, which basically involves, you know, frontier technology as it's like going from theoretical into, like, practical, right? Like, I'm the guy who shows up a month before it becomes practical and then once it becomes contested, well, there's another piece of frontier technology I can just jump on and do that.
00;52;55;06 - 00;53;16;09
Chris
But if we were living in another moment in time where like, that didn't happen, right? Like the discipline and like the cost of fit would be like, I got to hang in there and I got to become entrenched in this thing, and I got to spend my whole life, you know, getting into, like, the finer points and the power struggles over these, like, things I've been bored with.
00;53;16;11 - 00;53;45;23
Chris
I mean, that's how that's how people live forever and ever and ever. I mean, if you if you were in IBM in the 1950s, you know, what do you do? And you're like managing cash register accounts. You know, you're buying pay for supplies for like, punch cards. I don't know, like, you know, sure, there are plenty of people doing interesting things at IBM, but like, there was also just a huge amount of people just doing the dullest shit imaginable, which is why they all came home and got like, shit.
00;53;45;23 - 00;53;49;12
Chris
I was drunk at 630, you know, before dinner.
00;53;49;19 - 00;53;51;12
Pri
Just drinking. Come back.
00;53;51;14 - 00;53;53;06
Chris
Everything comes and goes. I don't.
00;53;53;07 - 00;54;07;11
Pri
Know, that's the other thing I've learned. I'm like, everything's cool. Whatever. That's why you even like the trend forecasting stuff gets a little tired or like, okay, yeah, this is just kind of like what's out. What's in is, I don't know, whatever. But this has been a fun episode.
00;54;07;18 - 00;54;09;13
Aaron
Can I.
00;54;09;16 - 00;54;12;01
Chris
Can you down here free? You're not going anywhere.
00;54;12;06 - 00;54;15;16
Aaron
All right, you know what else I've been thinking a lot about this week?
00;54;15;18 - 00;54;16;12
Pri
What?
00;54;16;14 - 00;54;39;27
Aaron
That may be like all I think the end point of all. Like, the, like p doom stuff, is that there's going to be a movement to just completely eliminate any semblance of privacy. The argument would basically be like, we can't trust these AI systems, so we need access to every computer, every communication channel, like you name it, like we need it.
00;54;40;00 - 00;55;06;28
Aaron
We need to monitor the situation, for lack of a better way to describe it across the planet. You know, privacy be gone, which I think is actually probably the most worrisome outcome. Yeah, yeah. But but you could kind of feel like the threads of that beginning to like, emerge, like, and I could see that being one of like the end points of this debate.
00;55;07;04 - 00;55;38;19
Chris
I think the from a market based ordering perspective. Right, in the language of money. This is what is wanted and how it's being expressed is diffusing into a bunch of different political views that all for different reasons, want this as well, or at least majorities of right. Like you can see this in Europe, which is, you know, for an economic backwater or an economic mid-major on the decline.
00;55;38;21 - 00;56;14;22
Chris
You know, the and a place that allegedly, you know, was supposed to be the world's like, exemplar and guardian of rights and liberal values, right? Every over there they want to like, you know, like chat control and money control, you know, and that's seeping its way into the left in America as well. Meanwhile, you know, on the right, the more information you have, the more powerful the the systems you're able to create, the more powerful the systems that you're able to create, the more impact you are going to have on market based ordering and the flow of money.
00;56;14;22 - 00;56;44;01
Chris
And but at the end of the day, like if money is the dominant force in the world, money wants this and how money is going to get it is going through different avenues to converge around the same goal. So it wouldn't surprise me if we end up in this state, you know, like humans have this inherent like issue in which they can't get over the fact that top down control, like you can live without top down control.
00;56;44;05 - 00;57;12;10
Chris
And we're reaching this point in the systems we're building and the complex adaptive systems we live in, in terms of like our societies or economic frameworks, there's so far beyond what anyone has any ability to, to exert pop down control over. But as a human being and like through our culture of programing, there's always a boss, right? Like, we don't like to work in decentralized collectives because we're always fearful of what someone else is doing.
00;57;12;10 - 00;57;29;27
Chris
And if only there is a higher order power that we could turn to for justice. Right. That fear is in a league. But at the end of the day, like you're going to get so complex. I mean, we're already there that that higher order power can't do the job because of jobs like not doable at a certain scale.
00;57;30;03 - 00;57;57;10
Chris
And to me, that's that's my fear around complete visibility in the erosion of privacy is people are always looking for substitute candidates for God, people who are always looking for a final authority. And people like, can't sleep at night or can't sit well, going, no, we're all just a bunch of like independent actors who sometimes work together in different size groups to get things done.
00;57;57;10 - 00;58;21;19
Chris
And some of those things don't really make sense to an outsider. Or, you know, some of those things are genuinely bad and need to be kept incorrect, you know? But like, you know, the horse has left the barn, man, like there is no one thing that can run everything, but we're going to try to do it. And that's my fear around, like what you're talking about, Aaron, is just human nature itself.
00;58;21;22 - 00;58;45;18
Aaron
Yeah, I think it's like that impulse plus like either like a legitimate to like an overstated concern. I don't I don't know where I kind of land on that. I did note that there's like some new company that just like built literally like a, like a whole science, AI run science lab, like in 12 weeks. So maybe the risks are higher.
00;58;45;24 - 00;58;58;01
Aaron
But yeah, it just feels like that's the, the trend line, right? Like we're already losing privacy by the day. People are beginning to push back on it. But that could be like the, the the point.
00;58;58;03 - 00;58;58;23
Pri
I think.
00;58;58;26 - 00;59;10;17
Aaron
You're right. And like all the all the AI companies, they they hoover up data so they're happy to get more data. You know, they're happy to be in that position to try to build that machine. You mentioned Chris. So I don't know.
00;59;10;18 - 00;59;27;04
Chris
Yeah. Well the economic incentives are so massive. Right. That's the other thing is like this is a prize worth winning, right. If you're motivated as to like, how do I just get the biggest pile of money, you know, like money after a certain point in time is really just a scoreboard.
00;59;27;07 - 00;59;27;15
Aaron
Yeah.
00;59;27;16 - 00;59;35;03
Chris
And, you know, you get enough of it, but then you don't want to stop because your home meaning based system is running up the scoreboard.
00;59;35;05 - 00;59;48;06
Aaron
Yeah, completely. And then I think the governments obviously like that too, you know. So so it just feels like that's like almost like where, where it's going to land, like the shelling point. We'll land there.
00;59;48;08 - 00;59;51;02
Chris
All right. We worked ourselves out out of gas here.
00;59;51;07 - 00;59;53;03
Aaron
Yeah, I think so.
00;59;53;06 - 00;59;54;24
Chris
All right. Well, it was a good episode.
00;59;54;25 - 00;59;56;24
Pri
It was, I enjoyed it.
00;59;56;25 - 00;59;59;13
Aaron
Well, good luck with your AI psychosis, guys.
00;59;59;19 - 01;00;02;14
Pri
I'm going to. I'm going to try to be a normal person today.
01;00;02;20 - 01;00;03;13
Aaron
Great.
01;00;03;18 - 01;00;05;29
Chris
Good luck with that.
01;00;06;02 - 01;00;09;17
Pri
All right, well, on that note, should I introduce the podcast?
01;00;09;19 - 01;00;10;12
Aaron
Let's do it.
01;00;10;14 - 01;00;24;29
Pri
Hey, everyone, welcome to Net Society. Today you have me, Aaron, Chris talking all things crypto, AI, tech, culture and more. Just as a quick reminder, these thoughts and opinions are our own and not of our employer and none of this is financial advice. Let's go.