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A podcast focusing on the perspectives, lives, and stories of Kansans to provide greater insight into the state we all call home.
AAK_Ep52
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I Love Prarie Chickens
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[00:00:00]
Gus Applequist: So in the lead up to today's episode, I came across the perfect cold open, and I actually don't know if this is a, a prairie chicken. We're gonna talk about prairie chickens a lot today. Um, and so the
Sydney Collins: Lesser and Greater Prairie chicken.
Gus Applequist: True. Thank you for that. This, this is, I don't think this actually is either of those animals, but it does have a, a striking similarity.
Okay. It is like a prairie grouse, which Okay. Is in the same family maybe. So just this video's delightful. Oh, we don't have sound.
Sydney Collins: Okay. That's hilarious.
Gus Applequist: Get us a little sound. Yeah. Yep. Go for it.
Sydney Collins: Why? Why are they tap dancing? [00:01:00]
Gus Applequist: It's a chance to, mate. That's,
Sydney Collins: oh,
Gus Applequist: yeah.
Sydney Collins: Can you imagine if humans did that?
Gus Applequist: I mean, you
Sydney Collins: could argue. Can you imagine? We do do that. You can. You imagine like you're at a bar, like imagine that you're at a bar and you're trying to pick up this chick and you just walk up to her.
Fred Flintstone sound.
Gus Applequist: I, I think I'm falling in love with Prairie Chickens, to be perfectly honest with you.
Sydney Collins: Oh my gosh, that's so funny.
Gus Applequist: They picked the perfect music too, didn't they?
Sydney Collins: They did.
Gus Applequist: It's just perfect.
Sydney Collins: They did.
Meet Matt Bain
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Gus Applequist: Welcome to Ask a Kansan
Sydney Collins: podcast where we're amplifying, [00:02:00] connecting and uncovering stories across Kansas.
Gus Applequist: And today we are talking with a, a nice guy named Matt from the Nature Conservancy.
Sydney Collins: Yes. And Matt is true Kansan born here.
Gus Applequist: Mm-hmm.
Sydney Collins: Which school here raised here is raising his family here.
Gus Applequist: if something like defines Matt from, from the interview, I think it is his love of land
Sydney Collins: Yes.
Gus Applequist: And helping others do the same.
Sydney Collins: we'll let him kind of introduce himself 'cause he is just very, he's very mellow.
Gus Applequist: Mm-hmm.
Sydney Collins: And just super knowledgeable. Mm-hmm. again, we go back to this thing of we love people who are passionate about what they do and Matt is definitely one of those people.
So without any further ado, here's our conversation with Matt Bain.
Hello. Hey, how's it going? Great.
Gus Applequist: How are you guys? Doing
Sydney Collins: well come. Thanks for joining us. Have a seat in the hot seat.
Matt: Yeah, thanks for having me.
Sydney Collins: I'm Sydney.
Matt: Hi.
Gus Applequist: Yeah,
Matt: Matt,
Gus Applequist: nice to meet you. Yeah, thanks for coming on today. Meet you.
Sydney Collins: So feel free to get comfortable. [00:03:00] Cool. Well, for our audience, can you introduce yourself for us?
Matt: Yeah, my name's Matt Bain and um. From Western Kansas, born and raised here in Kansas and haven't come very far in life.
Sydney Collins: You say that, but I You've done a lot of things, it seems like when, when I'm doing my research, you've done a lot of really cool things. So where do you work now?
Matt: Yeah, so, um, I'm the director of Conservation for the Nature Conservancy in Kansas.
it's been about, about, uh, 10 years with Kansas Department of Wildlife and Parks as a private lands biologist. And then, moved over to the conservancy about, about 13 years ago and, uh, helped them manage a, a ranch and, um, did work out there actually along the same Smokey Hill River corridor that goes through here.
Mm-hmm. Just, you know, about three, three hours straight west here along the smokey And, yeah, now have, uh, statewide responsibility, uh, [00:04:00] help all of our, our ca uh, conservation staff in the, in the state. do their work and yeah. So, uh, a little different role. Uh, been in this role for a, about six months.
Uh, prior to that I was, um, the Southern High Plains Grassland Program manager for the Nature Conservancy. So I, I worked in parts of five states, like I said, haven't come very far in life and went to school at Fort Hayes. grew up on a farm in, in, in, um, ness County. Um, my, my wife's family farms out there in Thomas County and, and, uh, so yeah, we're, we're just pretty local.
What Conservation Means
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Gus Applequist: Could you, could you explain partially for me, but also for our audience, like, what is conservation? Like, I know the word conserve is in there, but what does it actually mean?
Matt: Yeah. Um, good question. So, growing up I, um. I learned to love to hunt and fish. My dad taught me, um, you know, to, to hunt and fish.
And, you know, I started [00:05:00] understanding that, uh, that conservation really isn't non-use. It's not setting something aside and not using, it's, it's, it's actually wise use. It's using something wisely and making sure that it's available for future generations. And so I just, at a young age decide that, um, that's how I wanna spend my life is to make sure that, that, that I can help people conserve wildlife and make sure that it's gonna be there for future generations.
And, and I think it's a, you know, it's a land ethic. that's the nice thing about, um, growing up on a farm and in, in a rural community, that a lot of the, the farmers and ranchers there have a really strong land ethic. And I, I really appreciate that about Kansans that, uh. We seem to really want to take care of our race horses and make sure that they're available for the next generation.
And that's really all conservation is in my mind.
Why Matt Chose This Path
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Sydney Collins: What made you wanna go into this kind of line of work?
Matt: again, grew up in a small farm in, in western Kansas, we had a, we had a, [00:06:00] uh, a county road going right by our house. And when I, when I would cross that road into that pasture, we had jackrabbits, we had prickly pair cactuses.
It was just different than, than all the dirt, you know, around the mm-hmm. Uh, in, you know, the farm ground around there. And when I was out there, it was, you know, it, it felt wild. There was a, there was a pond down there and when it would rain. The aliens would show up. We'd have craw ads and aquatic insects.
You'd all of a sudden be there in that pond and my, my little brother, and I'd go get the old broken down badminton, rackets and run down there, scoop 'em out, and holy cow, you know, what is this thing? And uh, and then, you know, growing up, um, my dad, uh, taught me how to sit on a tractor all day. And I would, uh, I'm not much of a singer, but I would, I would sing loud to stay awake.
I mean, that was the only way I was gonna be, you know, riding a tractor for, for 18 hours is if I could stay awake. And, of course now I can't hear very [00:07:00] well because of all that, but, um, but you know, it wasn't always that way. And, and sometimes it'd get just quiet and, and dusty in there. And I, my mind would wander and I would just think, you know, not that long ago, just a few generations ago, like all this was grass.
I mean, our farm, our neighbor's places. All of Kansas was all grass. You know, it just kind of hit me. But, you know, how little we have left now and, and how little of these wild places we actually have left now. And, uh, you know, my, my folks taught me that connection between people and grass. And, you know, that's, that's mostly cattle.
I mean, that, that's livestock. They taught me how to take care of cattle but also how to cuss at cattle and, you know, the proper way of doing that. And, uh, so, you know, and then I got into, got in, into, um, hunting and fishing really, you know, as I, as you know, high school age. And, uh, just gave me a real passion, like I said, to [00:08:00] want to conserve and make sure that, that those resources are available for future generations.
Got got involved, you know, in some research when I went to college at Fort Hayes and, uh, started studying interactions between Leer and Greater Prairie Chicken. And, grassland ecology and just decided that, um, you know, wanted to do that for a career. so, uh, yeah, I went to Wildlife and Parks and now it's an age conservancy.
And it's been interesting because I think it's about 22 years now that I've been doing this, this kind of work professionally and, and again, long before that, just on our family farm and stuff.
Grasslands Disappearing Fast
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Matt: But, I've seen a lot of what I've done, like go away, you know, uh, 22 years of a lot of habitat projects and, you know, grassland restoration projects, those kinds of things.
And, you know, we've, we've lost over half of our conservation reserve program lands now in Kansas since 2007. and when [00:09:00] you think about, you know, grasslands more broadly, like in the, in the Great Plains, 62%. Actually that stats for North America, 62% of all North American grasslands are gone. and, and just since I was, you know, sitting on that tractor in the early nineties, we've lost about 2 million acres a year on average, just since that time.
And so what that means now is that in a place like Kansas, we only have 20% left. Just, just not very, not very much left. And, and that little bit that's left is, uh, under increasing pressure from, you know, development, fragmentation, invasion by, by woody species, you know, uh, trees and shrubs, things like that.
you know, the, the good news, like I said though, is that we've got this, we've got these folks out there that have this land ethic that, that want to do what's right. They want to, they wanna maintain what we have left. We have ranching cultures that are. That are really maintaining that, that [00:10:00] grassland that's out there now.
you know, my role with an H Conservancy is really how do we support those folks? You know, the, uh, if conservation's not good for people, then it's just not gonna last. And so, so how do we make it good for their operation? How do we help them achieve their own goals and, and be more resilient in their operations and be ready for that next drought?
yeah, that's, that's kinda the work at the moment.
Misconceptions and Win Wins
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Sydney Collins: what's the biggest, what's the term I, I'm thinking of misconception,
you think people have when it comes to conservation?
Matt: you know, one of the things that, that comes to mind is that, uh.
That there, that there are not win-wins out there. like I, we, we think about that, that land ethic that folks have that are out there taking care of, you know, our last wild places in Kansas and supporting wildlife and, you know, somebody that doesn't understand that culture, that way of life might think, why don't they just do this?
You know, why don't they do it this [00:11:00] way or the right way? Or why, mm-hmm. Why don't the government come in and solve this or big nonprofit, you know, fix this or whatever when they see issues like this. you know, without that perspective, without knowing that those folks are out there running a business, uh, that they're saving money for their kids as college, they're, they're trying to make, make it to the next year.
And that if conservation is not good for them, it doesn't help them do that. We don't build a, a value proposition for conserving those grasslands along the way. then again, it's, it's not gonna last. So I, I think that's a, that is a miscon, just that lack of understanding that as we, as we become, um, a more urban society, we are less connected to that idea that everything we have actually comes from the land.
And that, uh, if we, if we don't get that, if we didn't, if we don't see that and, and, uh, you know, part of those communities that, uh, that work that way, then, then I think more and more of those [00:12:00] misconceptions happen over time and we lose funding. We lose, you know, real pragmatic solutions over time.
Cattle Fire and Prairie Balance
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Gus Applequist: About a year and a half ago, Sydney and I went to Las Vegas for a.
I don't want to have to explain every element of this, but basically a a, a film, sales thing. We're, we're making a documentary here.
Sydney Collins: Okay. Basically, you go there, you can buy and sell film
Gus Applequist: Yeah. Movies. That's good way to put it. And we met, a man and woman that were representing another documentary.
Sydney Collins: Mm-hmm.
Gus Applequist: Uh, and the [00:13:00] documentary was called A World Without Cows. And we haven't seen the film, but we talked to them quite a bit about what it was about. And, it, it was kind of trying to paint a more nuanced picture of the roles that large, I guess, mammals play mm-hmm. In grasslands and, and that it's, it's, it's not as simple as just, it's not black and white, right.
Where Yeah. You can just do away with the cows and that'll mean that the environment is that much better. The reason I bring that up is just thinking about that, that you work in a very gray area. That, that there probably are some black and white things, but, but you sort of have to give a little, take a little all the time.
Any, any reaction to any of that?
Matt: Yeah. Um, that's a, that's a good observation. I mean, it, it's just like everything, it's about, it's about a balance, you know, at the end of the day. And, you know, when you think about, I like what you said there about, about cattle. Um, you know, when you think about, again, our last wild places in [00:14:00] Kansas, primarily grasslands and, and prairie wetlands and streams, you know, those were all shaped by really three ecological drivers.
Three things actually created them, made them, and, and maintained them. And, uh, you know, of, of, of course in addition to God's creation, but, but we've got, you know, cattle or grazing. We've got drought and we've got fire. I mean, those are really the three ecological drivers that, uh, that, that, you know, maintain our natural systems here in Kansas.
And, and really if you take, if you take those out long enough, you're gonna have something that is not natural that, that it's no longer, uh, a grassland or in its natural state. You know, grazing maintains the prairie. Um, and if, and, and as you drive, you know, east through eastern Kansas, now you can see, uh, what happens if we don't have enough fire on the land that it, it eventually becomes a forest.
And so you've gotta, you've got [00:15:00] those ecological balances that you need to, um, maintain. And then, um, I would say the other thing that you pointed to there is, is basically the, the services that grasslands provide to society. And, you know, when, when you have a native, intact, diverse prairie, it's providing all the services, it's providing clean water.
you know, abundant water supply, these grassland are like giant sponges that, that filter water and then put it into our local aquifers and rivers and streams, clean. That's how they work. grasslands are the ultimate regenerative soils, you know, they just take care of themselves. they, you know, clean the air, provide recreation, you know, all the things, the, you know, habitat, all the things that people depend on, for, for their quality of life.
You know, I, again, love to hunt and fish and just be outside and, uh, in, in the great outdoors. And, um, you know, those, those really reflect the values [00:16:00] of the people that are surrounding and managing those places. And so, what we've seen as we lose prairie is that we lose some of those services as we, you know, push prairie hard.
And make it do more in a shorter period of time. Uh, we we're gonna lose some of those services. But when you have species, one of those services is wildlife, you know, wildlife habitat, the recreation, hunting, fishing, that kind of thing. and so I, and that's kind of where my passion is, and that's how I think a lot, you know, a lot about this.
And if you think about some of those species sort of represent that full suite of services, like if you have these things, then, then these grasslands are resilient. The ranchers that are out there are gonna be resilient, ready for that next drought. you know, you've got intact native prairie instead of, uh, you know, uh, just bare dirt crop land.
You, you've got, an open prairie that's not getting taken over by trees. [00:17:00] Um, like when you have things like prairie grouse, like lesser and greater prairie chicken. You have all those services, they are really a good indicators species in terms of the, of the, the health of that, of that prairie system, that landscape.
And um, you know, there are times and places where those things become out of balance. You know, the example of losing, losing native prairie to trees and shrubs, you know, when that happens, you lose those birds, um, you lose the clean water. And, if that landowner's goals are based on that becoming, a forest, then it's just a reality that you're not gonna have all those services that you used to have.
So, yeah, it's a matter of, of kind of finding that balance,
Raising Kids with Land Ethic
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Sydney Collins: When you think you, um, have kids, right?
Matt: I do. I've got four of them.
Sydney Collins: So when you think about how your work kind of will affect their future, is, are those conversations that you have with them and how you're [00:18:00] teaching them to do that with your own land? Or how, how are you trying to preserve that for, for future generations?
Matt: Yeah, I, you know, I think that, you know, my land eth ethics certainly, and the way my my family raised me was that, um, you know, that you learn that from your parents. Mm-hmm. And, and they learned, you know, my parents learned that from their grandparent, from my grandparents, and Yeah, you, you definitely inherit that, to an extent.
And so I do feel responsible. I, I feel like I. I have to pass that along to my own kids too. It's really important. And you know, I come from a family of, of farmers mostly that, that have had some cows and, and liked hunting Fitch and, and watch birds and, and, and really just be outside and, and enjoy creation.
You know, I mean, that's, that's my family. And so, you know, my wife shares those same values, loves to be outside, grew up on a farm. you know, we love to go hiking [00:19:00] and, and looking for antlers or, um, you know, just taking the kids out and, and I think just the simple things like I was talking about, uh, having a place to, to feel like you're out in the wild.
It doesn't have to be on a farm, but it could be a little stream, you know, going through a city. I was just coming back from Kansas City and meeting with folks that are on the Blue River and, uh. I was talking about growing up down there and, and just having a place in the backyard that he could run and, and feel like he was wild and, and free.
Like that's, you know, I think that's most of what a kid needs to start to really develop that land ethic. And so I do, you know, we do a lot of hunting and fishing and, and outdoor adventures and go places and, you know, do bear hunts and elk hunts and like, I, I wanna make sure that, that my kids have as much of that experience as, as I can afford to give them.
but really it's the times that, that we're just out there on the farm and actually using our [00:20:00] hands out on the land that I, that I feel like we're, you know, we're, we're teaching them best in terms of how to be good stewards and, and make sure that it's there for future generations. And then. In a very real way.
Uh, I've got two, two older sons now that are, you know, discerning what they, what their careers are gonna be and what they wanna do with their, with the rest of their lives and told, you know, tell 'em don't sweat it too much. 'cause I still don't know what I'm gonna do when I grow up. But they, you know, they're thinking about those things too.
And, and, yeah, I think my wife and I have raised our kids to have that, that land ethic and that passion for wanting to conserve and, um, it looks like a couple in many ways, um, are, are interested in conservation and wanting to go to, to learn more and, and, uh, make a difference on that too.
Why Prairie Chickens Matter
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Gus Applequist: You've mentioned the Greater Prairie Chicken and, and Lesser Prairie Chicken a little bit.
And if I understood right that they're sort of like a canary in a gold, in a coal mine in that is that right? Like [00:21:00] they, they, they kind of indicate the health of the environment.
Matt: Yeah.
Gus Applequist: So, so I guess a question I would have then is, there's a lot of stories both locally and nationally of, of areas that they just, that people like you, uh, discover a species that is endangered like that.
And, obviously that there's, there's a, like an outcry that happens for that species, but there's also an outcry of, you're, you're coming in and shutting down my land to protect this silly little bird.
Matt: Right.
Gus Applequist: Can you, can you kinda unwrap that for us and talk about why does it matter that we care about some little bird?
Matt: Yeah, that's a, that's a great question. I, I could probably spend a couple hours rambling about it because I. This is an issue that, like I said, when I went to grad school, I was, I studied those two species and, and I've been close to their conservation, you know, my whole life. and it's, uh, it is interesting and I, I think that, you know, the canary in the coal mine is, is really a good analogy [00:22:00] there.
Uh, but it, it, you know, they're, they're the canary in the coal mine for intact resilient grassland. So, something like I said, that these grasslands that are gonna provide, that, that clean water and, and habitat and, and all and recreation for a whole suite of other things, including, you know, our multi-billion dollar beef industry.
And, you know, when you think about, um, if we lose species like that, uh, we are certainly gonna be losing our clean and abundant water that is reaching Salina through the smoke Hill River. Uh, we're, we're gonna be losing, you know, soil health, that's a foundation of our society. And, We're, we're, you know, our ranchers are gonna be losing forage.
And so it's, you know, they are indicators of that, kind of, that ecosystem health. so at a, at a very basic level, you know, that, that definitely, you know, that that's the concerning part. That's the thing that should keep us all up at night, I think. And you know, when I, when I think about like water in particular, [00:23:00] you know, you think about, uh, greater Prairie Chicken for example.
you know, they're, they're in the Flint Hills of Eastern Kansas. That's kind of always been a, a stronghold for them. and in that landscape alone, we lose about 2.2 million acre feet of water every year to increase consumption by trees and shrubs that are invading that landscape. Wow. Oh. and that's based on research that's done on a, a, a Nature Conservancy property there at K Prairie.
2.2 million acre feet per growing season lost. What does that mean for, for Kansans? that doesn't even, you know, touch on the, the tons and tons of forage that we're losing Every year because of, of the displaced of by, by trees and shrubs. And then what's that mean for increased wildfire risk, like the one that we just had Here in south central Kansas and, you know, tick abundance and tick-borne diseases. Like, you know, those may not seem like part of the prairie chicken [00:24:00] problem, but they absolutely are. They're actually the same problem. And so, you know, when we think about, you know, conservation of, of species like that, um, we, we really have to think about that full suite of services that, that these native systems are, are providing to society and that, you know, ranchers have been providing to society really for generations.
And they're not getting paid anything for it. you know, other than beef supply, no one's paying for these services. And so when you think about, um, there's actually been some research that tries to quantify the value of some of those services. And it's, it's probably in the neighborhood of, you know, hundreds of dollars an acre a year, is what society gets in terms of those, the values of those, of those goods and services.
And, and when you think about what, you know, ranchers are actually being paid, it's like one to 5% of that. So the question is, you know, and the conservation challenge really is how do we build on that land ethic in [00:25:00] a way that that actually compensates them better for the services. They're actually, they're actually providing, That doesn't really answer your question in terms of, of the lesser and greater prairie chicken, but it's, like I said, it's, it's part of the same problem. Um, you know, when you think about the lesser prairie chicken issue, you know, it's, it's been a roller coaster of uncertainty, I think I would say for about the last 30 years.
It's really, you know, again, when I was, you know, riding that tractor on our farm in the, in the nineties that they were first petitioned, um, I think it was the same year that I graduated high school actually in 96 when they were first petitioned and they were then listed and de-listed and then re-listed and then delisted.
And so you just have a, a lot of uncertainty for industry, for land managers, you know, and the reality is that. We still have a problem. We've lost, you know, 80 to 90% of our grasslands, uh, in [00:26:00] that lesser prairie chicken range, um, you know, are, are, are basically gone. And so, you know, again, and that's the problem when you think about the Flint Hills and the Greater Prairie Chicken Country, their population, uh, is probably down somewhere around 70% in, in Kansas over the last 15 years.
And when you, when you think about the tall grass, you know, the tallgrass, um, ecosystem, uh, you know, once a, a vast, you know, Eastern tall grass prairie now has been reduced by 96%. We actually only have 4% of our Tallgrass prairie remaining. You guys know the Flint Hills and Eastern Kansas and Eastern Oklahoma.
two thirds of all. Now all remaining Tallgrass Prairie is there that, so two thirds of that 4%. That, that's Kansas, that that's what we have there. And again, you look at how that used to be a stronghold for a species like, or prairie chicken. And, and now, you know, now that [00:27:00] population's probably down by, like I said, 70%, so not in good shape.
And that's mostly because of, of that, that woody invasion, you know, even as, even amazing, uh, uh, as a job and, and fire culture that we have in the Flint Hills. And man, thank God for those ranchers and that fire culture because it would be long gone by now if, if we would not have that. But, uh, but we're still losing some, we're still losing pace there.
and you know, just not having that adequate, uh, nesting structure is, is, you know, another reason in that, in that part of the landscape. But, um, but yeah, definitely a canary in the coal mine. Um, those grouse are, in addition to being those indicator species, in my mind. When you drive by the prairie, it just looks kind of drab.
And then, but you see, you know, they're like a visual representation of, of the wonder and the diversity that's just otherwise hidden. Like, [00:28:00] like, but then all of a sudden you go to this l in the spring and, and these things show up and it's, it's really a spectacle. I mean, it really is incredible. And I, and I think it, they are a good indicator of actually how amazing the prairie is.
You know, they're, they're that, that visual, piece that's otherwise just hidden.
State to Nature Conservancy
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Sydney Collins: I guess one, like more curiosity on my part, how did you go from, working for the state to where you're now? Did, was, was it something you were looking for? Did they come and say, Hey, you're a great fit for this?
Gus Applequist: Yeah. What has the difference been like for you too? Yeah, yeah,
Matt: yeah, that's, I appreciate that. Um, so when I was a private lands biologist for the wildlife and parks, um, I, I just thought that I, it was my ultimate job. Like I would never want to do anything [00:29:00] else. and we were, we were starting our family there in Colby had nine counties where I, uh, it was the best job ever, you know, connect.
You, you, you hear from people that, uh, that want to do good things for wildlife and you want to give them resources to do that and really connect them to opportunities to do that. that was, that was a part of the job. There were plenty of other parts of the job, like, uh, depredation and, and other issues that maybe weren't, weren't as fun.
but really enjoyed that piece of it and was able to, um, you know, use my education to help people in that way. And. And then when this job came open with an H Conservancy, it's like doing that very same thing, like helping like get to know your neighbors. You know, that's one approach that I really like about the conservancy is that, you know, we, we own properties and we're out there managing lands.
We have the same challenges and, and, uh, struggles as our neighbors. You know, if, if we're in a drought and trying to survive through it, our neighbors are doing the same. And if [00:30:00] we're fighting the woody invasives, our, our neighbors are doing the staying, doing the same thing. We've got, uh, you know, six properties, six ranches, working ranches that we own across Kansas, and, and we're in partnership with our neighbors and trying to work through those things together.
and then recently, you know, it's a matter of, um, of really trying to understand, the barriers to participation in those conservation programs. It's almost a. A socioeconomic sort of, uh, endeavor where we're, you know, what are the barriers to, uh, practice initiation and adoption and, and how do we, how can we help you take that next step in, in your, um, journey, you know, for, for your property to become more resilient and make sure that you're here on the land and that you're able to pass this down to the next generation.
Because if, if those land stewards, if those ranchers, are not out there taking care of that land, I can tell you whatever comes in in its place is [00:31:00] not gonna be as good for all those services that we're talking about. And so, my, my job now with the Nature conservancy, I think has, has, you know, put me more squarely in that situation of really trying to, you know, help listen and, and help folks, identify options that can help them, you know, take that next step.
and that's really rewarding. the other piece of that is looking at the, the, the habitat benefits, you know, the wildlife benefits that, that these are the same, you know, places that, that all of our wildlife populations depend on. And, and when we're, when we're helping those folks, you know, have more diverse grass stands and be more drought resilient and getting rid of trees, you know, replanting grass, those things, they, they all come together.
And, and with an H Conservancy, it's been, I would say just more squarely, um, you know, in that role. And with, you know, the state [00:32:00] is great. We've got a number and, and other partners too. I mean, I worked for, for the state, you know, before TNC, but, um, I work with. All the NGOs in Kansas, I'd start naming them, but sure enough, I'll leave one off.
So I'm not even gonna start, but, but I'm telling you like nothing we do is by ourselves and, and we, I, you know, I work with all those groups every day. was just on the phone with them, literally before I walked in here. It was a partner call and we were trying to figure out how, how to help producers in these core grassland landscapes.
And, you know, it's definitely a partnership effort. I still work, you know, with wildlife and parks all the time. And, uh, it really has been a, a re rewarding career on, on both ends of that.
Ecotourism and Prairie Wonders
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Gus Applequist: We've talked a lot on the podcast about what we call the Kansas, um, inferiority complex.
Sydney Collins: Mm-hmm.
Gus Applequist: And you know, sort of this idea that I, I'm not sure if it [00:33:00] came from Kansas or from others' perspectives on Kansas, but that, that Kansas is somehow less than, you know, the coast or whatever.
Matt: Yeah.
Gus Applequist: I've been fortunate in my life to be able to travel quite a bit and be able to go to a few, like ecotourism type things in other climates and ecosystems. I think there's been some of that happening in Kansas. I'm just curious from your perspective, you know, is ecotourism one of those things that could help address our inferiority complex and, and recognize sort of the, the vibrance of the ecosystem that the prairie represents?
Matt: I, I'm maybe not as optimistic about some, I'm, you know, an old, uh, you know, German and Russian family that, um, you know, we have a, everything we do, you know, is two parts, humility and mm-hmm. And so I, but I, but I do think what you're saying is, um, you know, is valid.
And, and I think that, you know, thinking about, you know, like these [00:34:00] services that Grasslands are providing and some of the, the spectacles of the prairie that we have, I mean, they really are incredible. Um, one of the, you know, I mentioned the, the Lesser Prairie chicken, you know, luckily because of the good decisions that farmers have been making to enroll in CRP, the Conservation Reserve program and, and some really amazing managers out there, we've got some really healthy grasslands and, and we now have about two thirds of all lesser prairie chicken anywhere on Earth now are in a relatively small strip of land between.
South of I-70 and the Ark River going through Garden City, so that, that little narrow strip there, basically from Hays to Colorado. So just that little rectangle, two thirds of all, all those critters now are, are basically in that area. And that's where Smokey Valley Ranch is that, that property that serves as a stronghold for Lesser Prairie Chicken.
we partnered with, uh, Kansas Wildlife and Parks, and then more recently with, uh, governor's [00:35:00] Ring Neck Classic and the Buffalo Bill, uh, the Wild West Foundation, the Buffalo Bill statue there in Oakley, um, to, to do, uh, LEC tours, to do, um, and it's a lot of, um, uh, you know, outfitters people that are lifelong bird watchers.
Mm-hmm. And they're, they're an interesting bunch. You know, they, uh, you know, they, they don't really even need to see the bird. Yeah. They just need to hear it and check the box and move on to the next thing. you know, a lot of folks. So we've had, gosh, I wanna say, you know, in a typical year we'll have like 20 different countries that'll be on these three to 400 people that show up.
Uh, just all walks of life, all different interests, and, and most of 'em, we go, you know, go out there in the blind, in the dark and, and the first thing they say, and I don't even think about this, is where did all these stars come from? You know, like, it's just amazing how few people, um, [00:36:00] you know, have, have seen a night sky like that with, with so little light pollution.
But, you know, but we do have something there. And, uh, you know, these people are coming, like I said, from all over the world, uh, to see that spectacle. we have, you know, an amazing diversity of, of plants out there too. And when you, you know, when you drive through on I 70. You just don't see that most years.
Most times. But then occasionally the rain will come at the right time and you'll look over and, you know, the prairie's just on fire with, you know, wildflowers. And it, it's, it's pretty amazing. so we do have a, you know, a lot of, a lot of diversity. We've got, um, you know, all three of these prairie types.
We've got the Tallgrass Prairie, the Mixed Grass Prairie, the the Shortgrass Prairie. Um, we've got all the prairie wetlands and streams, places like Cheyenne Bottoms, you know, these are mm-hmm. A wetland of, of, um, international significance that, that they've been recognized. You know, when you think about the just hundreds, thousands of different species that move through Kansas, I [00:37:00] mean, our, our natural heritage really is something to be proud of.
And I think we, I think we can all do a better job recognizing and, and kind of building on that.
Smoky Valley Ranch History
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Matt: we have a place at Smokey Valley Ranch that, um. So this is an interesting story because, um, there were researchers out when they were building Fort Wallace, uh, in the 1860s. researchers came out from University of Kansas and one of the first deeded ranches out there, and I haven't been able to verify this, but was told that it was called McPherson County.
So it was basically, uh, an area west of w at that time. Hmm. That, uh, was a county, you know, from, from Colorado to Joaquin, north and south to Colorado or to, uh, to Nebraska. And, um, and Oklahoma, that whole area was one of the first deeded ranches, and it was the Ziegler Ranch. And, uh, we don't know if it was him or one of his hired men, but found this, this big, [00:38:00] uh, tooth out there in a, in a, um, in the, in the Stream bank.
And they found out that these researchers from University of Kansas were out at Fort Wallace at the time. So wrote over there, showed them this, this big tooth, and, and they looked at it and said, well, this is bison antiques. This is a, an ancestor of today's buffalo. Mm-hmm. They were like 50% larger. Whoa.
Um, but a direct, you know, ancestor of, of, um, of today's bison, bison, bison. you know, they knew what it was, but yeah. Let, we want to see where you found this thing. So. The researchers, uh, were brought to this site out there at Smokey Valley Ranch. They started looking around pretty soon they, they got to looking at this, going, this looks like a buffalo jump, like a modern day.
we know that these bison, these, uh, bison antiques were out here more like 10,000 years ago.
Sydney Collins: Mm-hmm.
Matt: And our understanding of human inhabitation of, of North America was much more recent than that at that time. So maybe a few hundred years. I mean, that's [00:39:00] what the textbook said. So they, they thought, well, how can this be?
'cause we have this 10,000 year old species, you know, that's been extinct for 10,000 years, uh, in what looks like a kill site. You know, this is not adding up. But as they got to digging and uncovering bones, they found a, a spear point embedded in one of the scapula.
Gus Applequist: Mm gosh.
Matt: So that was like the smoking gun.
And in the late 18 hundreds, about 1890 when they, they ended up publishing that and, you know, it came out in Peer Review journal that they'd found this smoking gun of the first evidence of humans being in North America. And they literally had to rewrite the textbooks.
I mean, this put people here 10,000 years before we were, we thought we were here in 1825 or 1925, almost, I dunno, 40 years later they found the Folsom Point. And, uh, and that's the one that you hear about, kind of as, as the credit, getting the credit for the, you don't, no one knows about 12 Mile Creek site.
And the, the reason for that [00:40:00] is, is the rest of the story. So these professors, you know, figured out how amazing this, um, you know, and published this, uh. This, uh, spear point, and, uh, you know, studied this thing, got the word out, and the, the story goes. And again, this is like a lot of history. It's just a story.
We have no, no idea how, how accurate it is. But, um, but the, the point was then taken to a fundraising event. Oh no. And somebody pocketed it and it, and the, the, the point was, you know, lost and gone forever. And, and so you still have the physical evidence, you still have the bone markings. Actually, one of the bison antique with skeletons that, that they put back together is at the, um, university of Kansas Museum.
Oh. On display in the basement. so we still have that, but it was kinda lost that smoking gun. And, and the reason I'm rambling about all that is because that part of the ranch, um, it's [00:41:00] just. about 75% of the human history on that ranch that we know about kind of happened within that square mile. Even though that ranch is 20 some thousand acres, most of that history happened there.
and you start thinking about why there, and, and there's springs, there's, you know, perennial springs basically. So having that, that, uh, perennial water source there, even through dry years, high quality water, and so when you start thinking about the reason that people were there 10,000 years ago is probably the same reason.
You know, I, I was there that summer, uh, and the cattle were there that summer and, and that we were, um, you know, thinking about those sorts of things. And, and so, uh, Custer came through and camped there. we have a, a, a Butterfield, uh, overland dispatch trail that came through the ranch and there was a staging station there, but it was called, uh, smokey Hill Spring Staging Station.
Tracing Spring Water
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Matt: And just a, a, a Pawnee, uh, [00:42:00] Indian village was right in that location. Like all that thing is, all that history is happening there because of these springs coming out of the, the IRA chalk in the hillside. And so then I got to wondering, well, why, where's this water coming from? We don't have the Ogalala aquifer under the ranch.
It's in that smoke Hill River basin. So we've got it to the north and we've got it to the south, but not in the basin itself. and ended up talking with a, um, an engineer, um, and, and, and they ended up looking at a bunch of different test well data, and they think that actually most of that water comes from an ephemeral wetland that we call Ply Lake.
Just up the basin from there, up that watershed, oh, four or five miles, that, that probably 80% of the water that comes out of that spring actually goes into the water table, uh, in that, through that ply lake. It, it then hits the, the nira chalk that imp permeate impervious.
Gus Applequist: Mm-hmm.
Matt: You know, [00:43:00] chalk and then it, and then it creeps out through the gravel and exposes itself there.
So it's just a really interesting demonstration of, of that connection of the, of the water cycle, that connection of people and water. And just going back to what I was talking about, the Flint Hills and, and how we're losing 2.2 million acre feet of water, you know, just in the Flint Hills alone because of some of these issues, like our natural history is just so much a part of who we are and it's woven into, you know, everything that, that we've ever done out there on the land.
And, uh, and I think so.
Ecotourism Audio Tour
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Matt: So to get at what you're, what you asked about with, you know, ecotourism, one of the things that we're doing is we actually put together an audio tour along the periphery of Smokey Valley Ranch to, to tell those stories, to tell some of that human history and, and connect people to, to what they're seeing on the land today and, and hopefully, you know, inspire them to care about [00:44:00] those resources for, for future generations too.
So
Gus Applequist: you just painted so many images, many in our heads. That was wonderful.
Supporting Conservation
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Sydney Collins: Um, how can people help the, um, the conservancy and where can they find more information if they need it or want it?
Matt: Yeah. Well I appreciate you asking and you know, it, it is a, a nonprofit, the Nature Conservancy is a nonprofit, and so we do, um, you know, very much depend on members and.
Donors for supporting all the, the work that we do across the state. the Nature Conservancy in Kansas, pretty easy to find on the web nature.org. I would just encourage anyone to, you know, that's interested in these kinds of things, to just become a member and get engaged and, and, uh, yeah, help us out because there's a lot of work, a lot of work to be done.
And, uh, you know, it's just thinking about, you know, other parts of my career too. [00:45:00] You know, all of our partners are in this with us too. All the other NGOs. We all work together very closely. You know, people that, that buy duck stamps, uh, that's how we fund, you know, a lot of our conservation programs is through hunting and fishing, license sales, uh, Pittman Robertson.
That, that, you know, it's the excise tax on, on outdoor equipment. I mean, that's how we fund a lot of our habitat work. So, you know, hunters, play a huge role in conservation and, you know, even if you don't hunt, you might think about buying a duck stamp or a, a fishing or a hunting license because it, it helps.
Sydney Collins: Well, thanks for being here today.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. We really appreciate it. Appreciate you.
Matt: Yeah, you bet. Thank you guys for having me.
[00:46:00]
Defining Key Terms
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Gus Applequist: Well, we hope you enjoyed that interview with Matt. There was a lot of things I really love there. I wanted to give our audience just, there's a couple words that were thrown out.
Sydney Collins: Yes.
Gus Applequist: And I just wanna make sure everybody knows what they are. We talked, uh, he talked about a bison jump.
Sydney Collins: Yes.
Gus Applequist: Which this is like a cliff that Native Americans would run bison off of.
They like chase a, a herd or a small group of bison mm-hmm. To this cliff. And they would jump off and they would die. And that was an easy way to hunt bison in large groups.
Sydney Collins: Mm-hmm.
Gus Applequist: The other one was alya. And alya is like a, it's like a sort of like a divot in the ground. And, farmers in western Kansas know all about playa mm-hmm.
Because they're all over their fields and it's like a, a wet. It's kind of like, like when it rains, moisture accumulates here and it just kinda stays there. And gradually [00:47:00] that ply, those ply is, they kind of leach that water down and into often the, I think the ogalala, like they, that's one of the ways that water gets into the ogalala,
Sydney Collins: which if you dunno what a ogalala is, tune into our episodes with Rex Bucha Buchanan.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. Yep.
Sydney Collins: and I think that was, that was back in 2025.
Gus Applequist: Yes.
Sydney Collins: but you'll learn all about aquifers and the Alala, Alala, Alala,
Gus Applequist: Alala.
Sydney Collins: I'm never gonna be able to pronounce that correctly. Anyway, shameless plug. Any other
Gus Applequist: takeaways from, from you? From
Prairie Conservation Takeaways
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Sydney Collins: I just, again, I love people who are passionate and Matt is one of those people and it's definitely something that I didn't know a lot about.
Mm-hmm. I'm probably, it was very obvious when I was trying to ask questions. And so just learning more about it and kind of, you can read about Prairie conservation. You can read and read and read, but it's really hard to ascertain how important, important it is unless you talk to someone about it.
And so that's why I'm glad we had Matt on,
Gus Applequist: I still [00:48:00] don't fully understand everything that the Nature Conservancy does, but
Sydney Collins: Well, they're a global organization.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. So I'm sure
Sydney Collins: there's probably
Gus Applequist: a lot of things, tens of thousands, if not more employees. Um, but I, I think they, they have a really holistic sort of approach.
Mm-hmm. That's, that's about working. They're realistic about their goals and what they're trying to do and yeah, I just admire them a lot as an organization. I think they do Great. Good.
Kansas Ungulate Quiz
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Gus Applequist: So I was thinking about like what sort of segments could pair well, and so, um,
Sydney Collins: you always know it's gonna be good when Gus does the shoulder shake.
Gus Applequist: It's true. So welcome to, uh, uh, name that Kansas, even toed ungulate. What? Okay, so
Sydney Collins: even tote ungulate.
Gus Applequist: Okay. That is a, well, here, let me just read my thing.
Sydney Collins: What,
Gus Applequist: um, yes. Okay. You're on, you're on the right track. So I was just kinda scrolling, like, and just [00:49:00] searching on Google for different things and I came across this database.
Called the Kansas Mammal Atlas. That is, uh, put on by the Sternberg Museum of Natural History, um, in Hayes, uh, which is, it's cool though. Yeah. That's also where Matt went to school. Okay. Um, so they cat they catalog over 50,000 specimens in observations covering 89 different mammal species in Kansas. And one of the groups in this atlas is the order of RTO Dilla or even toed ungulates.
These are hoofed mammals and there are odd and even toed, uh, mammals. And so, uh, these are the even toad, meaning that there's either two or four. Okay.
Sydney Collins: Okay.
Gus Applequist: So here's the plan. We're gonna look at six of, of, actually there are basically just six, um, that are even toed ungulates from Kansas that are here regularly.
So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna show you a, an outline. [00:50:00] The hoof print of six different ones. I'm gonna have you guess.
Sydney Collins: Oh
Gus Applequist: goodness. Each one. Okay.
Sydney Collins: Okay.
Gus Applequist: It's not as hard as you think. We're gonna start easy and we'll get harder. Okay. And then after each one, I'm also gonna give you two truths and a lie about that.
Oh my goodness.
Sydney Collins: All right. Strap in everybody.
Bison And Whitetails
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Gus Applequist: You should be able to get this one. Music.
Sydney Collins: Oh, is that a bison?
Gus Applequist: Yes. Well done. You even used the right word. Good job.
Sydney Collins: I had, I thought buffalo, and then I said bison.
Gus Applequist: Yep. Uh, next slide. See? Yep. That is the American bison.
Okay, let's go to our two truths and a lie. So the American bison became the official national mammal of the United States. In 2016, American bison can run up to 35 miles per hour and jump six feet into the air. Or the American bison is the tallest, heaviest, and longest land animal in North America. Which one of those is a lie?
Sydney.
Sydney Collins: I don't think,[00:51:00]
I don't think it is. I don't think it's a national mammal, is it?
Gus Applequist: Okay. Is that your answer?
Sydney Collins: I don't know. It's either one or three.
Gus Applequist: Okay.
Sydney Collins: I'll go one.
Gus Applequist: Okay. Next. Let's see
Sydney Collins: how stupid I am.
Gus Applequist: So it's actually three,
Sydney Collins: yeah, three.
Gus Applequist: But it's,
Sydney Collins: oh yeah. The moose.
Gus Applequist: The moose is the, the tallest. But the American bison is the heaviest and longest land animal in North America, which I didn't know that.
Sydney Collins: Interesting.
Gus Applequist: So, so, yeah. Um, and yeah, I guess the American bison was named the official mammal of the United States. Yeah,
Sydney Collins: I totally missed that. Which
Gus Applequist: is, I do feel like once I, during, in 2016, the last few years, like the bison has become more recognized.
Sydney Collins: Mm-hmm.
Gus Applequist: Like nationally, I feel like I, because there's a big statue that just went into, I think the national mall, uh, of bison.
So that's kind of cool. Alright, let's move on to our next, uh. toed Ungulate.
Sydney Collins: Oh, that would be a deer.
Gus Applequist: Okay.
Sydney Collins: Oh dear. Or an elk maybe.
Gus Applequist: Can you be any more? Okay. Yeah, we'll, we'll get you, it's white
Sydney Collins: tailed.
Gus Applequist: There's a white tail. I was gonna [00:52:00] say
Sydney Collins: whitetail.
Gus Applequist: Okay, great. Um, okay, let's do our two truths and alive for this one.
Whitetailed deer raise and wave their big white bottomed tail when alarmed. That's one. Two. There are more white-tailed deer now than there have ever been before. Or three. Their antlers grow off of a single main beam, unlike some other species which fork as they grow.
Sydney Collins: Uh.
I guess two is the lie.
Gus Applequist: You are correct. Yep. Um, it's interesting actually, around the year 2000 is when there was the most white-tailed deer really. Um, and the, they almost were extinct, believe it or not, back in the late 18 hundreds, early 19 hundreds. They became very close to extinction and then through a careful program, they were, you know, brought back.
But then it like, kind of went crazy because we took care of most of their predators and then it was nuts. And that's, you know, I think a lot of people say there's too many deer [00:53:00] in the state today. Um, but there are, if I remember, I'm sure
Sydney Collins: the
Gus Applequist: insurance company would
Sydney Collins: say that too.
If
Gus Applequist: I remember correctly.
I thinks about, yeah, there's 655,000 roughly white deer in Kansas now. And, and this just helps paint the picture of just how many bison there were. There was one herd of bison in western Kansas in, uh, sometime in the mid 18 hundreds that had 4 million bison.
Sydney Collins: Wow.
Gus Applequist: So it's just hard to comprehend just how big that is.
Okay, we'll go on to our next, uh, even toed ungulate.
Mule Deer And Elk
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Gus Applequist: Any idea what this, is
Sydney Collins: that an elk?
Gus Applequist: Not a bad guess.
Sydney Collins: Uh,
Gus Applequist: I'll give you a second chance.
Sydney Collins: The other type of deer.
Gus Applequist: Okay. We'll give it to you. It is a mule deer.
Sydney Collins: Mule deer.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. Um, so this is, there's a lot less of these around. There's only about 44,600 or so. Um, in the state there used to be more, but [00:54:00] it's, it's had a much more challenging time than the white-tailed deer.
So let's do our two truths and a lie. Uh, number one, mule deer are named for their large ears, which are about three fourths. The link of their head. Number two, when running, they use a distinctive bonding gate called Sting, where all four hooves leave the ground at once. Or number three, mule deer are smaller than Whitetailed deer, but have larger, more elaborate anter antlers.
Sydney Collins: Uh, I'm gonna go with three is the lie, because I think they're bigger than whitetail. I think whitetails are smaller.
Gus Applequist: You, I think you just nailed it. That is correct. Uh, let's see what I have on that. Um, yeah, mul deer are actually the larger animal. Uh, the Atlas specifically says they're bigger than whitetails, but they're less than half the size of an oak.
So, yeah. Alright, let's go on to our next animal.
Sydney Collins: Oh, is that an elk?
Gus Applequist: That is an elk.
Sydney Collins: One of these times, I'm gonna say elk and it's gonna be right.
Gus Applequist: It's kind of fun. The Kansas mammal atlas actually calls them Wapiti [00:55:00] I assume that's the Native American name for them, but, but they're commonly known as elk.
Uh, here comes our two truths and a lie. Number one, a bulls elks, sorry, a bull elks Antlers can weigh over 40 pounds and grow as much as an inch per day. Number two, the original subspecies of elk that lived on the Kansas plains still survives in small numbers in Colorado. Or number three, elk communicate during the fall rut by bugling.
A call that starts low and swoops up to high pitch notes.
Sydney Collins: Well, I totally believe bugling, uh oh gosh. Okay. The original species of elk that lived on the Kansas plane still survive. I think that's true. I'm gonna go with the antlers is the lie.
Gus Applequist: Okay. So, believe it or not, uh, that's true. What's not true is that the original subspecies of elk that lived on the Kansas plains [00:56:00] is actually extinct.
Um,
Sydney Collins: oh wow.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. Uh, it was a subspecies, so it wasn't like drastically different Yeah. Than the, than the elk of the Rocky Mountains. But we do still have some elk that visit Kansas from time to time, uh, that are obviously of the Rocky Mountain variety. Hmm. Okay.
Pronghorn And Feral Hogs
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Gus Applequist: Moving on to our fifth animal. This one, like, I've only heard of a few people like that have seen Why
Sydney Collins: is it only of three legs?
Gus Applequist: Oh,
Sydney Collins: there's,
Gus Applequist: it's just because of the picture.
Sydney Collins: I'm
Gus Applequist: kidding. Yeah, there's,
Sydney Collins: uh, oh gosh. Uh. Is it Adel, a deer and an elk put together? Is it a,
Gus Applequist: I kind of want it to be Adel. No. Okay. One more guess
Sydney Collins: I got nothing for you.
Gus Applequist: Okay. This is a pronghorn.
Sydney Collins: Yeah. I would've never guessed that in a million years.
Gus Applequist: It looks like it belongs like up on top of a mountain to me.
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Gus Applequist: Um, okay. Two truth and a lie. The, by the way, there are about 2000 pronghorn in the westernmost counties. [00:57:00] Um, and they can hit speeds of up to 60 miles an hour, which is nuts, my gosh. Okay, so two truths and a lie. The pronghorn is the only animal in the world that sheds its horns. Annually they have true horns, not antlers, but they shed and regrow the carrot in sheath every year.
Second, the pronghorns closest living relatives are the giraffe and the oppi. And three pronghorns are excellent jumpers and routinely clear the barbed wire fences across Western rangelands.
Sydney Collins: I'm gonna go three is the lie.
Gus Applequist: You're, you're quite good at this. Yes. Three is correct. Pronghorns are actually terrible jumpers.
When they hit a fence, they end up going underneath. So wild friendly fencing. Mm-hmm. Has a smooth raised bottom wire so that they can get under it more easily.
Sydney Collins: Yeah, maybe. 'cause like I'm assuming pronghorn means like they shed and they regrow. Like there's something to go with that on its name and it does look like an oppi.
And the fact that I know what an oppi is and remember what they look like, I [00:58:00] think I should give bonus points for that.
Gus Applequist: Oh yeah, yeah, totally. We'll give it to you. Bonus points. Okay. Now to our final.
Sydney Collins: Oh, is that a pig of some kind? Okay. A boar, a wild
Gus Applequist: pig. You nailed it. That is indeed a wild boar.
Sydney Collins: We have these in Kansas.
Gus Applequist: We do, but they're not native. Okay. They found their way here. Um, and they're very dangerous. I don't know if you know this yet. Yeah.
Sydney Collins: They're no
Gus Applequist: have people have died from wild boar. I don't know if they've died in Kansas, but, um, but they certainly, if you happen to see one, keep your distance from them, God, and make sure you tell somebody too, 'cause they cause a lot of problems.
Um, let's see. Yeah, I'm just looking through my notes here. I guess in, in 1999, uh, USDA helicopter crews eradicated about 400 wow pigs from Fort Riley. So I kind of want there to be a movie about that, because that sounds kind of epic.
Sydney Collins: I just, [00:59:00] I just imagine like it's your day off and you work at Fort Riley.
Like you're clearly in the service, you're in the military, and it's like. Hey, what's going on over there? Are they doing a training exercise? No, they're killing all the pigs. Like I know that's like a really,
Gus Applequist: if there's listeners that, that have stories from that, I'd love to hear them. Yeah. Okay. So our two truths and a lie for the wild boars, uh, feral pigs in the United States.
Cause over, oh, sorry. I just have to say this and, and I, I could have this wrong, but I'm pretty sure I have it correctly. There's not like a genetic difference between wild boar and pigs. Like if a pig is in, in the wild long enough, it just,
Sydney Collins: well, yeah. That's why you have to get their babies away from 'em when their babies are born.
'cause they'll eat their babies.
Gus Applequist: Yeah.
Sydney Collins: They're like aggressive Pigs are aggressive and people think they're just big, fat, cuddly things. No, you leave them out to
Gus Applequist: Yeah.
Sydney Collins: Be on their own and they will. [01:00:00]
Gus Applequist: Yeah. I mean, I think we can, we can say Charlotte's Web has shaped the way many of us view pigs. Um, maybe, perhaps not.
Sydney Collins: I've watched one too many. Uh. Crime shows know that pigs are a great way to get rid of something if you want to. So that's my take on pigs.
Gus Applequist: I heard a story about a pig farmer who they would take all of the roadkill too because he would just feed the roadkill. I mean, okay. Sorry. I'm totally grossing out our, our sweet listeners as they try to eat their meal.
Okay. Back to two tri and a lie. Feral pigs in the United States cause over $1.5 billion in damage annually and carry more than 30 diseases.
Sydney Collins: I believe that.
Gus Applequist: Number two, Kansas was this first state to ban sport hunting of feral pigs and the strategies considered a national success story, or three wild boar were originally native to the Great Plains where they filled a similar role to the javelina of the desert Southwest.
Sydney Collins: Oh,
that's either two or [01:01:00] three. Um, I'm gonna.
But You said that they weren't originally here, so now
Gus Applequist: it's, I said Kansas, I didn't say Great Plains.
Sydney Collins: That's true. I'm gonna go two is the lie. 'cause I feel like you would want to get rid of them.
Gus Applequist: You like you perfectly fell into my trap. I'm so excited. Okay, so, so it was in fact three. Oh,
Sydney Collins: okay.
Gus Applequist: They are, they are actually European imports.
So they,
Sydney Collins: who is importing pigs?
Gus Applequist: Well, I mean, people like bacon Sydney. That's right. There's, there's reasons why this happened. Okay. But, but we're gonna explain too, because you're right. That's kind of confusing. Um, in 2006, the Kansas legislature made Kansas the first state to make sport hunting of pigs illegal.
Uh, state officials had initially hoped that hunting, that allowing hunting would decrease feral hog numbers. But it had the opposite effect
Sydney Collins: what
Gus Applequist: people were actually releasing hogs so they could hunt them. Oh. So the new law [01:02:00] restricted killing the landowners or their designees with a permit from the livestock commissioner.
So that ban is still in effect today, and Kansas is one of the only states with a swine problem. Uh, sorry, one of the only states that has had a swine problem that has fewer hogs now than it did in 2004. So it's kind of a counterintuitive strategy that appears to have worked. Um, yeah,
Sydney Collins: that's like a great example of one person ruined it for everybody else.
Gus Applequist: Well, there you go.
Wrap Up And Credits
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Gus Applequist: So, uh, that's, that's, uh, an overview of the six, even towed ungulates from, uh, Kansas. I do wanna give an honorable mention here to the moose. We have had moose in Kansas, uh, but not regularly. And, and so I, I didn't include the poor moose. I, I wanna give credit here to Fort Hay State University and the Kansas Mammal Atlas.
This was originally put out in 2006 and, and it's a great, uh, just resource and go, go check it out. It's, it's, it's pretty academic, but, but it is fun to learn about [01:03:00] these different orders and, and the animals within them. So that brings us to the end of another episode of Ask a Kansan.
Sydney Collins: Yeah, I'm just. You do find the most interesting things.
Oh,
Gus Applequist: well thank you. That was good.
Sydney Collins: Oh my goodness. All right.
Subscribe And Merch
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Sydney Collins: Well make sure that you are, following us. Like, subscribe, leave us a review, visit us@askacanson.com
Gus Applequist: where you can find merch like this awesome shirt that Sydney has on right now. Uh, we've got the mugs, I think as well on there. No, no,
Sydney Collins: no mugs. No mugs.
No mugs are mugs we haven't released yet. Those are internal, but we have the water bottles. Mm-hmm. We have stickers. We're working on some other fun stuff. Um, also make sure to subscribe to the Curious Canson newsletter. Um, yeah, that's all I got.
Gus Applequist: Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you next week.