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95% Content is a show for B2B content teams who want to build trust with the 95% of buyers who are out-of-market today, but will be ready to buy in the future.
You can call it many different things: content marketing, demand creation, brand marketing, dark social, or zero-click content.
No matter what you call it, the goal is the same.
You want to reach future buyers on the social and content platforms they hang out on every single day, and in a way that compels them to want to work with you when they’re ready.
We’re going to cover how B2B companies can win with things like: organic social, short-form video, podcasting, YouTube, newsletters, webinars, and communities.
Because the best way to win today is to already be on your buyers short-list the day they decide they need a solution.
On this show hosted by Erik Jacobson, we’re going to explore how B2B content teams can do exactly that.
Kyle [0:00:00]: A work to the wise, keep your eyes on the ninety five percent.
Erik [0:00:04]: I'm Erik Jacobson.
Erik [0:00:05]: Welcome to 95% Content.
Erik [0:00:08]: A show for B2B content teams who want to build trust with the ninety five percent of buyers who are out of market today, but we'll be ready to buy in the future.
Erik [0:00:16]: Kyle, I'm very excited to talk today.
Erik [0:00:22]: I've been following your all's work at Hubspot.
Erik [0:00:25]: I know you have a personal newsletter as well.
Erik [0:00:28]: And for context for everybody.
Erik [0:00:30]: So you're the senior director of marketing at Hubspot.
Erik [0:00:34]: And mostly what you're focused on these days?
Erik [0:00:37]: I know you've had a variety of different roles during your time at Hubspot, but you're focused on the Hubspot media network, which...
Erik [0:00:44]: That's right.
Erik [0:00:45]: Kind of my understanding the umbrella underneath that is newsletters, podcasts, Youtube, essentially like, the things that we talk about on this show a lot, which is, like, how do we create attention with future buyers on the platforms that they're hanging out before they may ever be in market for a platform like Hubspot, But then when they're out of contract with a competitor six months from now, they've been following the hustle, they've been following my first million, and I know you've got a bunch of content pillars there that we can go into.
Erik [0:01:19]: So you're immediately, you know, front of mind for that moment.
Kyle [0:01:23]: Yeah.
Kyle [0:01:23]: That's exactly right.
Kyle [0:01:24]: Now, thanks for having me Hubspot, media, I guess, a little more detail for folks is about four years ago, Hubspot.
Kyle [0:01:31]: Acquired the Hustle media company.
Kyle [0:01:33]: And at that point, we had kinda that traditional content marketing team.
Kyle [0:01:37]: Yep.
Kyle [0:01:38]: And we brought that together with the Hustle and built out but is now Hubspot media division.
Kyle [0:01:43]: It's roughly like, a little over fifty writers, editors, producers, audience development marketers focused on managing more of a portfolio of media brands.
Kyle [0:01:53]: I think we've gone from this, like, single channel content strategy, to more of a portfolio where, like you mentioned, Youtube newsletter podcasts and, like, how do we actually build up media brands that attract audiences for us.
Kyle [0:02:07]: So excited to dive into it.
Erik [0:02:10]: Yeah.
Erik [0:02:10]: And the scale you all are doing it at you know, just from being in the content game myself for a long time?
Erik [0:02:15]: Like, I know it's no easy feat to try to get one or two content brands off the ground, let alone, the number you have.
Erik [0:02:22]: So could you just give, like, a just a general overview.
Erik [0:02:25]: Maybe you know, I don't want you to feel like you have to go through every single one, but just, yeah.
Erik [0:02:29]: Big picture.
Erik [0:02:30]: Like, what does that world look like of your content brands on those different channels.
Kyle [0:02:35]: Yeah.
Kyle [0:02:35]: It's a good question.
Kyle [0:02:36]: I think I can give you kind of a framework where whether it's like a small biz or a large.
Kyle [0:02:41]: Company, and I've talked to some of my friends who work at, you know, small agencies, and it's a similar approach, which is audience first content strategy.
Kyle [0:02:48]: So before, I think marketers love to talk about, like, channels and tactics.
Kyle [0:02:52]: Right?
Kyle [0:02:53]: I run our blog.
Kyle [0:02:54]: I run our email program.
Kyle [0:02:55]: I run our digital ads program.
Kyle [0:02:57]: But really, those programs are trying to reach the same person.
Kyle [0:03:00]: And so if you take an audience first approach, you're saying, starting from scratch, if I was gonna put together a content strategy to reach this audience, engage with this audience and ultimately convert this audience, What would that look like.
Kyle [0:03:13]: And so we go into, like, Hubspot audience verticals.
Kyle [0:03:18]: So if you look at our product portfolio, we have a great Crm, but we also have marketing software.
Kyle [0:03:24]: That's used by directors of marketing, social media marketing managers, content marketers.
Kyle [0:03:30]: We have sales software for sales reps, sales managers.
Kyle [0:03:33]: We have customer success software for support reps and customer success teams And so when we think about content strategy, We say, okay.
Kyle [0:03:41]: Who the audience?
Kyle [0:03:42]: Like, who are we trying to reach?
Kyle [0:03:44]: And then from there, we have the conversation around what channels are going to reach this audience and influence this audience.
Kyle [0:03:52]: And I think that's important because marketers is engaged with media very differently than salespeople.
Kyle [0:03:59]: I think depending when you do your audience research, you'll start to learn more.
Kyle [0:04:05]: I think what are their preferences?
Kyle [0:04:06]: What channels do they hang out on during the week?
Kyle [0:04:09]: What apps do they open on their phone every day?
Kyle [0:04:11]: That's gonna inform...
Kyle [0:04:13]: Oh, okay.
Kyle [0:04:13]: I think we need to go the newsletter route for this audience?
Kyle [0:04:16]: I think that's gonna be kinda the anchor media product for us?
Kyle [0:04:19]: Or this audience is on the go all the time.
Kyle [0:04:22]: They're on calls all day.
Kyle [0:04:23]: They just wanna listen to something in their ear.
Kyle [0:04:25]: Yep.
Kyle [0:04:26]: So you may go the podcast route.
Kyle [0:04:28]: So that's the way we approach it is, like, audience first, understand where those folks are and then make decisions around what media products or channels you're
Erik [0:04:36]: gonna invest in.
Erik [0:04:37]: Such a believer in that.
Erik [0:04:39]: That step funny enough is very often skipped.
Erik [0:04:43]: I feel like mh.
Erik [0:04:44]: Which is like...
Erik [0:04:45]: Oh, okay.
Erik [0:04:45]: Instead of thinking about it from that perspective or doing a little bit of audience research, even five to ten calls with people that fit that persona that our current clients or customers and asking them, where do you consume content?
Erik [0:04:59]: How do you consume it?
Erik [0:05:00]: What's missing?
Erik [0:05:00]: All that kind of stuff.
Erik [0:05:02]: It's more so just skipping a lot of times to the step of, like, we need a newsletter or we need a podcast or insert whatever channel or format and probably there's still success to be had there, you know, Sure.
Erik [0:05:20]: Regardless, but to your point, it's about optimizing it.
Erik [0:05:22]: And what is the central pillar?
Erik [0:05:25]: I'm assuming you all also probably repurpose some of these things across channels and stuff like that, but the main thing is, like, there can only be so many goals.
Erik [0:05:34]: Sure.
Erik [0:05:35]: It's like...
Erik [0:05:35]: So what's the North star for this content brand?
Kyle [0:05:40]: Yeah.
Kyle [0:05:40]: I think to unpack that.
Kyle [0:05:41]: You're right where it's like, this is an investment for the business.
Kyle [0:05:44]: Right?
Kyle [0:05:45]: I think that's the way we look at it is, like, if we're gonna invest in a media product, it's an asset, it's an investment for the business.
Kyle [0:05:51]: So we gotta do our research front.
Kyle [0:05:53]: Yeah.
Kyle [0:05:53]: We gotta be able to go...
Kyle [0:05:54]: To the head of marketing, the head of sales, the finance team and be like, we wanna invest in this newsletter of this podcast and here's why.
Kyle [0:06:01]: And that audience research gives you those data points.
Kyle [0:06:05]: And that...
Kyle [0:06:06]: Like you mentioned it it's as simple as, like, setting up a customer call and be like, You listen to podcast every week.
Kyle [0:06:12]: And they're...
Kyle [0:06:12]: If they say no, you know?
Kyle [0:06:14]: Maybe that's not the right rate channel for you.
Kyle [0:06:16]: So once you do that, then I think it's a matter of, like, okay.
Kyle [0:06:20]: I know what channel I'm gonna invest in.
Kyle [0:06:22]: And there tends to be an anchor, like, media product that you're gonna invest a lot of time in.
Kyle [0:06:28]: So let's say, you decide it's gonna be Youtube.
Kyle [0:06:31]: Like, okay.
Kyle [0:06:32]: So I'm gonna be great at Youtube.
Kyle [0:06:34]: Youtube's got great potential through the search and browse algorithms.
Kyle [0:06:38]: Video seems to be a preference for a lot of audiences right now, so I can repurpose that.
Kyle [0:06:45]: So you invest in a great Youtube channel.
Kyle [0:06:47]: You're publishing long form once a week.
Kyle [0:06:49]: And then you mentioned, like, the rep packaging and rep repurposing.
Kyle [0:06:52]: There's so much you can get out of a great Youtube video.
Erik [0:06:57]: Yep.
Kyle [0:06:57]: I think there's a lot of folks that are doing more talk shows on Youtube.
Kyle [0:07:00]: That could be thirty to forty five minutes long, And that transcript is a ton of content for you to use as a marketer.
Kyle [0:07:07]: Right?
Kyle [0:07:08]: So our teams will record an episode of my first million, for example, take that transcript, and now we're developing short clips for social, we're remix some of the content from that episode into more of, like, a utility asset or, like, a takeaway a guide or a template that someone could use because, yep, train when you're listening to the pod, you're not sitting there taking notes necessary.
Kyle [0:07:32]: Right?
Kyle [0:07:32]: Like...
Kyle [0:07:33]: So you wanna be able to give that audience something as, like, a takeaway.
Kyle [0:07:36]: And that one episode then feeds multiple.
Kyle [0:07:41]: Distribution channels for you, and it's one asset you've invested in.
Kyle [0:07:45]: And I think teams can be really efficient that way.
Erik [0:07:48]: You probably have been doing that for a while, but I've I've just noticed it as of my first million listener.
Erik [0:07:54]: Sure.
Erik [0:07:54]: The Cta to, like, get the checklist or get the guide or what have you is the summary or steps that were basically described a little bit.
Erik [0:08:07]: And so it matches and it maps to what the episode was talking about.
Erik [0:08:12]: And then I'm assuming it's a nice driver to get people from Youtube or from the audio podcast onto the newsletter.
Kyle [0:08:20]: Yeah.
Kyle [0:08:20]: Yeah.
Kyle [0:08:21]: We actually...
Kyle [0:08:22]: We call it the Ae com framework, so audience content offer match.
Kyle [0:08:25]: I think this is another piece that's missed.
Kyle [0:08:28]: You and I talked about, like, audience research to inform.
Kyle [0:08:30]: The other piece is, like, I make a great piece of content, but then, like, what work is it doing for the business?
Kyle [0:08:36]: Mh.
Kyle [0:08:36]: And one of the things that we have...
Kyle [0:08:39]: Us over is that offer match, and it's not just like, a throw away piece of content that's, like a summary of the episode.
Kyle [0:08:46]: We're actually trying to create a utility.
Kyle [0:08:49]: Something that is, like, I can use it right now to go do a thing.
Kyle [0:08:53]: And We actually have a monetization team that ob assess over the offer match.
Kyle [0:08:59]: They, like, make premium content offers that map to the content, and we wanna make sure it's, like a a value add for the audience.
Kyle [0:09:07]: And that's what we used to, like, look at audience engagement, conversion rates and obviously demand for the business.
Kyle [0:09:15]: But I think that's such a step that's missed at the end of the day.
Kyle [0:09:19]: Sometimes companies like, throw a product promo in there that doesn't really make sense for the audience.
Kyle [0:09:26]: It kinda interrupts them or they slap and offer in there after the fact that again, doesn't really align with, like, what the episode was about.
Kyle [0:09:34]: So we spend a lot of time in prep production on what's the offer?
Kyle [0:09:38]: Like, what's the plan for this?
Kyle [0:09:39]: What else can we give the audience that's gonna help them have a takeaway?
Kyle [0:09:43]: Yeah.
Erik [0:09:45]: And what I hear with that...
Erik [0:09:46]: Which I think is really smart and correct me if I'm wrong.
Erik [0:09:50]: But the offer doesn't necessarily mean the offer as a sort of direct response immediately to Hubspot.
Erik [0:09:58]: It's an offer, like, sort of moving them people can debate, are we still in a funnel environment, all that stuff whatever.
Erik [0:10:05]: But, like, basically kind of moving them from this piece of content into a more engaged relationship with them more value.
Erik [0:10:13]: And just continue stacking the...
Erik [0:10:15]: Is that kind of the right way to think about it?
Erik [0:10:17]: Yeah.
Erik [0:10:18]: Definitely.
Erik [0:10:19]: Especially with like
Kyle [0:10:21]: more of our editorial content.
Kyle [0:10:22]: So Yep.
Kyle [0:10:23]: Our explain videos, our talk shows, Yep.
Kyle [0:10:26]: We realize that buying software has a long sales cycle, and not everyone that is in the market for it.
Kyle [0:10:32]: Right?
Kyle [0:10:32]: Like, a majority of the people who are watching on my first million episode probably aren't ready to buy marketing software.
Kyle [0:10:37]: But we wanna just keep giving them value.
Kyle [0:10:40]: Our founder always talks about offer value before you extract value.
Kyle [0:10:44]: Like, just keep giving value And eventually, once someone is ready to buy.
Kyle [0:10:49]: They're gonna say, man, I learned a lot or Hubspot taught me a lot.
Kyle [0:10:53]: Maybe I to consider them on my shortlist list.
Kyle [0:10:55]: Yep.
Kyle [0:10:55]: So that's our thinking is just continuing to offer value and be there as a resource for folks.
Erik [0:11:01]: This has been in the Hubspot Dna, honestly for twenty years, like,
Kyle [0:11:06]: to Yeah
Erik [0:11:07]: Back in the Seo days, you're all's written content was doing that for a lot of people.
Erik [0:11:11]: Like, basically teaching marketers how to do marketing as they were coming up in their careers.
Erik [0:11:16]: And then as they got promotions, and got into the buyer seat.
Erik [0:11:22]: They were like, well, I basically have been learning from Hubspot for seven years.
Erik [0:11:27]: And now it's like, the same concept just applying it to twenty twenty five media and, like, content consumption behavior because we need to follow as content people and marketers like, where is attention at right now.
Erik [0:11:43]: We can't say I don't use Youtube.
Erik [0:11:46]: So nobody uses you...
Erik [0:11:48]: Like, I kind of hear that stuff a good amount sometimes, Like, if someone's personal preference versus, like, actually what is happening.
Erik [0:11:56]: With consumer attention, including B2B, people have this thought that a forty five year old Vp of marketing or director, or C suite, they're not watching Youtube, and that is not true.
Kyle [0:12:09]: No.
Kyle [0:12:09]: No.
Kyle [0:12:10]: Yeah.
Kyle [0:12:10]: I think you nailed that.
Kyle [0:12:11]: I mean, it's just one of our core principles.
Kyle [0:12:13]: Right?
Kyle [0:12:13]: Whether that was the blog or I started my career in the agency world and I'd read that blog every week to come up with ideas for my clients, you know?
Kyle [0:12:22]: And I think it's just this idea of going from, like, inbound content marketing that's, like, rooted in Seo.
Kyle [0:12:29]: I think we've moved to this direct media model, which is, like, we have the ability to create these media products, offer value and build an audience, which is a shift in our approach and how we package things, but the foundation is still the same.
Kyle [0:12:43]: Right?
Kyle [0:12:44]: We're offering value so that when you're ready to buy, we're on that shortlist list.
Kyle [0:12:48]: So I think the approach around, like, the change in channels and investments you nailed, which is just like, audience preferences have changed quite dramatically over the last three to five years.
Kyle [0:13:02]: I think, like, audience attention so fragmented.
Kyle [0:13:04]: I could pull up my phone and to Spotify watching a Youtube video read an email all in the same day.
Erik [0:13:11]: Yep.
Kyle [0:13:11]: And so we gotta figure out where's our audience spending time, and then deliver value to them.
Kyle [0:13:18]: I will say to your comment around, like, the Vp decision maker.
Kyle [0:13:21]: I hear that too, and they may not be sitting down at their desktop watching a Youtube video necessarily, but their teams might be.
Kyle [0:13:29]: And a lot of times, decision makers do things by committee, and they're asking their team.
Kyle [0:13:35]: Hey, What's your favorite tool?
Kyle [0:13:36]: What should we put on the shortlist list?
Kyle [0:13:37]: Who should we consider for this?
Kyle [0:13:39]: Or sometimes they delegate it.
Kyle [0:13:41]: Right?
Kyle [0:13:41]: Hey, Can you go do some research around software and come back to me with who the shortlist list should be and why?
Kyle [0:13:47]: What are the pros and cons?
Kyle [0:13:48]: So I think there's that piece of just influencing that buyer committee.
Erik [0:13:53]: Yes.
Kyle [0:13:54]: And it's so hard to get in front of that one decision maker at that one time.
Kyle [0:13:57]: Right.
Kyle [0:13:58]: You just wanna be top of mind for them and their team.
Erik [0:14:01]: What does it look like?
Erik [0:14:02]: So sounds to me the acquisition of the hustle four years ago in maybe a large part really kicked off this sort of overall strategy.
Erik [0:14:14]: So, yep, how would you describe just, like, in whatever way you prefer, like, what the results have looked like over that time, whether it be, like, hey, these are the number of people we get in front of every month, whatever version of all of that looks like, you know, for you.
Kyle [0:14:31]: Yeah.
Kyle [0:14:31]: Yeah.
Kyle [0:14:31]: I can give you a little breakdown around, like, how we measure success.
Kyle [0:14:35]: So the hustle acquisition was definitely a strategy that we had said, you know what?
Kyle [0:14:40]: Audience preferences are changing.
Kyle [0:14:43]: More people are moving to Youtube subs stack is growing like, crazy, more people are moving to Tiktok and social.
Kyle [0:14:50]: And so we knew we needed to build direct media products to reach audiences on those platforms.
Kyle [0:14:56]: And so I think bringing that group together with our content team offered the talent from the editorial side with, kind of the growth marketing.
Kyle [0:15:05]: Yeah.
Kyle [0:15:05]: Of the Hubspot side and that blend has really paid off for us.
Kyle [0:15:10]: When it comes to our measurement, kinda depends what you're talking to.
Kyle [0:15:14]: Right?
Kyle [0:15:14]: If you're talking to the Cmo or the Cfo, that's a different conversation than you're talking to the supervising producer on a Youtube channel.
Kyle [0:15:22]: But just to give you a sense of, like, how we structure it, So every program has a reach and demand Kpi every month.
Kyle [0:15:30]: So for a blog, for example, the reach may be organic traffic and demand would be content leads.
Kyle [0:15:37]: For a Youtube channel, it'd be organic long form views and content leads.
Kyle [0:15:43]: And those are kind of the Kpis that the product owners or program owners are looking at every month to say, am I growing reach am I growing demand.
Kyle [0:15:52]: Now some of our products are designed for brand awareness and reach.
Kyle [0:15:56]: Right?
Kyle [0:15:57]: So their reach Kpi and reach goals are a little higher than their demand goals.
Kyle [0:16:01]: We're not expecting it to generate demand because of the content.
Kyle [0:16:04]: On that channel where some of our channels are designed for demand gen.
Kyle [0:16:08]: Right?
Kyle [0:16:08]: And it's, like, they carry a little more of that lead number.
Kyle [0:16:11]: And then I would say down to the individual product level.
Kyle [0:16:16]: We have these signals.
Kyle [0:16:18]: So we talk about, like, signal and scale.
Kyle [0:16:20]: So what I just talked to you about scale reach and demand.
Kyle [0:16:22]: The signals are, like, how's the media product performing.
Kyle [0:16:26]: So a Youtube producer gonna tell you my thumbnail click through rate.
Kyle [0:16:30]: Is going up on the channel.
Kyle [0:16:31]: My average view duration is going up.
Kyle [0:16:33]: My total watch time is going up.
Kyle [0:16:35]: Because those are all signals that if the audience is engaging with our videos more, the algorithms more likely to show our video through browse and suggested or search.
Erik [0:16:46]: Yep.
Kyle [0:16:46]: So our teams, I think depending on month to month what they're looking at, the writers, the producers, the marketers, they're in the weeds on those signals.
Kyle [0:16:54]: Right.
Kyle [0:16:54]: And then every month, we're doing a recap of, like, okay, did we grow or reach reaching our demand through this play?
Erik [0:17:03]: I really like that deli who owns the reach and the demand ultimately.
Erik [0:17:08]: Is that the same person or you kind of mentioned it sounds to me like, you do have both sides of that equation a little bit, and they work together.
Kyle [0:17:17]: Yeah.
Kyle [0:17:17]: So depending on the maturity of the program teams can be smaller or larger.
Kyle [0:17:23]: I think, generally, there's, like, three people in the room.
Kyle [0:17:25]: Right?
Kyle [0:17:26]: So you have a marketer an audience development marketer who's focused.
Kyle [0:17:30]: On looking at the data and insights, providing that to the editorial and monetization team and saying, like, here's what's work and here's what's not.
Kyle [0:17:38]: Here's some of my recommendations.
Kyle [0:17:40]: And they're really focused on informing the work And then also distributing the content.
Kyle [0:17:45]: Right?
Kyle [0:17:45]: As the marketers, their job to figure out how do we distribute it.
Kyle [0:17:48]: Then you'd have, like, a content lead.
Kyle [0:17:51]: So if it's a newsletter, there's a writer.
Kyle [0:17:54]: There's a lead writer.
Kyle [0:17:55]: Yeah.
Kyle [0:17:55]: Who's their partner.
Kyle [0:17:56]: Right?
Kyle [0:17:56]: Yep.
Kyle [0:17:57]: And then there's a third person in the room who's the monetization person is focused on that offer match.
Kyle [0:18:02]: And that three person team can do a ton of great work.
Kyle [0:18:07]: Right?
Kyle [0:18:07]: Where you have those three capabilities in the same room and you're saying, What's the data saying?
Kyle [0:18:12]: What are we gonna make?
Kyle [0:18:13]: How are we gonna match offers to it.
Kyle [0:18:15]: And that group works together to grow that product?
Kyle [0:18:19]: It's a shared goal.
Kyle [0:18:20]: It is a shared goal.
Kyle [0:18:21]: I will say, like, you can imagine, like, our Cro monetization marketers, they're pretty focused on that lead number.
Kyle [0:18:28]: Right?
Kyle [0:18:28]: Like, they're looking at Cv and leads, and the marketers looking at, like, how many people read the thing or came in.
Kyle [0:18:34]: But the way we've structured it is those small teams have shared goals.
Erik [0:18:38]: What are the mechanisms you're using to take people from consumption, which is like the reach goal and then converting them into the content lead?
Erik [0:18:49]: And, yet, what is the content lead definition kinda mean for you?
Kyle [0:18:54]: So at Hubspot, you have a content lead that's been defined by the marketing and sales organization, it's actually standard across the organization.
Kyle [0:19:03]: Okay.
Kyle [0:19:03]: So when a contact or a person consumes a piece of content, and then download something or wants a demo or signs up for a free product.
Kyle [0:19:14]: There's these rules that we've defined with marketing and sales on what's a lead and what's a qualified lead.
Kyle [0:19:21]: And so...
Kyle [0:19:22]: They are standardized.
Kyle [0:19:24]: And for us, it's not just an email.
Kyle [0:19:27]: I've seen that some places where it's just an email for subscribe.
Kyle [0:19:30]: We want to gather additional information because we wanna make sure that whoever's coming in is a good fit for our product and our sales team.
Kyle [0:19:38]: So if you take a look at dot com, there's these different conversion points and the data we're collecting there.
Kyle [0:19:44]: And then and this happens more during, like, our planning season, we work with our sales team on, like, what are those qualified actions someone would take so that we get better fit audiences and contacts coming through.
Kyle [0:19:59]: So we go through that planning process annually, and then we set up our funnels through the content to convert on those points?
Erik [0:20:07]: Yeah.
Erik [0:20:07]: Because some of this is, like, creating demand for Hubspot that likely in some percentage is being generated not through a click from the content.
Erik [0:20:20]: Which, yeah.
Erik [0:20:23]: Obviously, makes it hard.
Erik [0:20:24]: They're pro, you know, going to Google typing in Hubspot, going to Hubspot dot com, typing it in the Ll, whatever the case may be.
Erik [0:20:33]: But that was actually generated from some part of that content engine.
Erik [0:20:38]: How do you think about that or account for that from, like, a measurement standpoint?
Erik [0:20:43]: Yeah.
Erik [0:20:44]: Or just philosophy standpoint?
Erik [0:20:45]: Yeah.
Kyle [0:20:46]: No.
Kyle [0:20:46]: It's a great question because I think we're I mean, we're all in the middle of this right now.
Erik [0:20:51]: Yeah Yeah.
Kyle [0:20:51]: You know, this direct attribution that we've had for ten years is going away.
Kyle [0:20:55]: And so the way that we think about it is like, there is that last click.
Kyle [0:21:01]: Right?
Kyle [0:21:01]: Mh.
Kyle [0:21:02]: So we still can track it from, like, someone who watches a youtube video and then visits dot com and takes an action.
Kyle [0:21:07]: But what we're starting to have conversations about is, like, what is the brand impact of our content?
Kyle [0:21:13]: Because I think if...
Kyle [0:21:14]: You're a brand marketer, you have traditional tactics around Tv out of home digital P.
Kyle [0:21:20]: But direct media is also a tactic for reaching audiences and getting brand impressions.
Kyle [0:21:26]: And honestly, the attention you're getting from a piece of media as opposed to an ad is significantly different.
Kyle [0:21:32]: Right?
Kyle [0:21:33]: I think someone who sees a thirty second spot and their feed compared to someone who spends forty minutes watching your show is very different from a quality standpoint.
Kyle [0:21:42]: The way we're starting to look at it is, one, we are lucky, like, we have a team of folks that are looking at correlations for us.
Kyle [0:21:52]: So if Youtube views are going up, Do we see more people going to Google and searching for branded search queries.
Kyle [0:22:01]: So Hubspot or some variation of that or our products?
Erik [0:22:05]: Yep.
Kyle [0:22:05]: And we can see that correlation?
Kyle [0:22:08]: We've been doing that for the past couple of years?
Kyle [0:22:10]: And so that's one way.
Kyle [0:22:12]: Well, especially when we're talking to leadership, we can say you're seeing our impressions go up across our media products, and then you're seeing this lagging action of people going and looking for our products.
Kyle [0:22:24]: So that's one way to do it.
Kyle [0:22:26]: I've also talked to a couple content marketers around, like, how do you just, like, put a value on it.
Kyle [0:22:33]: Mh.
Kyle [0:22:33]: And so this is, like, an old thing we borrowed from the old Seo Ppc days, but you just put a Cpm value on it.
Kyle [0:22:41]: Mh.
Kyle [0:22:42]: So you'd would say, like, oh, you would have to pay for this reach on Youtube.
Kyle [0:22:46]: Here's a Cpm value for the market, and, like, here's the value you're getting out of our channel reach.
Kyle [0:22:52]: Yep.
Kyle [0:22:52]: So I think you're trying to figure out, like, what's the media equivalent if you had to go through paid?
Erik [0:22:58]: Yeah.
Erik [0:22:58]: And to your point, it's like, that Cpm comparable is based off of an interruption Cpm.
Erik [0:23:07]: Mh.
Erik [0:23:07]: Which this is obviously, like, probably a one hundred x multiple on top of that because it's, yeah, the content they actually wanna consume.
Kyle [0:23:16]: Yeah.
Kyle [0:23:16]: A hundred percent.
Kyle [0:23:17]: One of the things we've done is we've just gathered industry bench marks around Cpm and we've set what our benchmark is for our channels.
Kyle [0:23:27]: Right?
Kyle [0:23:27]: And we've said like, hey, here's what we think it would be worth in market.
Kyle [0:23:32]: And you have that conversation with their marketing leaders and your finance teams and it allows you to kinda speak a common language.
Kyle [0:23:39]: Because I think whether you're a small biz or large biz, you wanna make sure your finance partners understand the investments you're making.
Kyle [0:23:46]: Yeah.
Kyle [0:23:46]: And so, like, we've done a lot of work around Here's the activities we have.
Kyle [0:23:51]: Here's how we measure them and here's the value to the business and, like, just having those conversations on a regular basis.
Erik [0:23:58]: Yeah.
Erik [0:23:58]: So the hustle, my first million.
Erik [0:24:01]: Mh.
Erik [0:24:02]: Are those...
Erik [0:24:03]: Like, just in terms of reach and audience size or, like, yeah.
Erik [0:24:06]: What other content brands are you, like, real excited about right now?
Erik [0:24:10]: Are you seeing a lot of good results from?
Kyle [0:24:12]: Yeah.
Kyle [0:24:12]: Everybody knows the hustle of my first million.
Kyle [0:24:14]: Right?
Kyle [0:24:14]: Yeah.
Kyle [0:24:15]: No doubt they're fantastic products?
Kyle [0:24:17]: You know, this year, we're were up for Web awards.
Kyle [0:24:19]: They're just yeah.
Kyle [0:24:20]: Incredible watch and read them every week.
Kyle [0:24:22]: They're definitely larger more mature media products.
Kyle [0:24:26]: We do have some media products that are shifting, or, like, pivoting strategy that are still pretty large.
Kyle [0:24:33]: So if you go through our audience verticals, you have kind of, like, the entrepreneurs, which is what the hustle and my first million is really meant to reach.
Kyle [0:24:43]: And then another core audience for us is marketers and Hubspot marketing blog is well known in the industry.
Kyle [0:24:51]: But since then, we've pivoted towards a podcast Youtube channel and newsletter that have done pretty well for us, marketing against the grain,
Erik [0:24:59]: Yep.
Kyle [0:25:00]: Is the podcast that sent shifted to, like, this Youtube talk show, to marketing execs talking about the future of marketing.
Kyle [0:25:07]: And definitely, at the executive level around how to use Ai and what this means for the teams.
Kyle [0:25:12]: And then we've started to shift towards this brand of masters and marketing, which is our weekly newsletter that's grown pretty significantly over the last couple of months.
Kyle [0:25:23]: What we're doing on that one is, I think if you look at all the marketing newsletters in the market.
Kyle [0:25:29]: A lot of them cover like big brands.
Kyle [0:25:31]: They cover Dunkin Donuts in Pepsi and Microsoft and the latest agency brand relationship, we wanna talk to the small business And so we wanna talk to the practitioners, the folks who are, like, the director of marketing or the social media marketing manager.
Kyle [0:25:46]: So every issue of that newsletter, features an interview with someone inside a company.
Kyle [0:25:53]: Talking to them about a channel a strategy a campaign.
Kyle [0:25:57]: So Masters and marketing has done really well for us.
Kyle [0:26:00]: And then our two, like, emerging brands.
Kyle [0:26:02]: We have mind, which is our Ai newsletter, talking about Ai news, but also Ai application in business, like, where do we see this happening and they've seen significant growth after joining Hubspot.
Kyle [0:26:15]: And our newest is the science of scaling.
Kyle [0:26:17]: Mh.
Kyle [0:26:18]: So we're actually...
Kyle [0:26:19]: This one's pretty cool.
Kyle [0:26:20]: We're partnering with Mark Robe he's Harvard Business school luxury wrote the sales acceleration formula, which is how B2B sales organizations go to market.
Kyle [0:26:30]: And we're doing a Youtube channel with him that's really focused on tactical go to market for sales managers and sales reps.
Kyle [0:26:38]: But being a professor.
Kyle [0:26:40]: Right?
Kyle [0:26:41]: Like, being a guest lecturer.
Kyle [0:26:42]: He has just these mental models and frameworks and he goes into these stories that are just so helpful.
Kyle [0:26:47]: And so those are the brands that we're really trying to build up in these audience niches?
Erik [0:26:54]: Love it.
Erik [0:26:54]: And within those or just...
Erik [0:26:56]: Yeah, maybe in general, which of the different content channels, I guess, you know, Youtube, newsletter, podcasts, you know, what have you?
Erik [0:27:07]: Are you, like, can't stop thinking about.
Erik [0:27:09]: Like, it's the number one on your mind right now.
Erik [0:27:12]: And, like, I'm sure, obviously, with your role, Like, all of them you're paying attention to.
Erik [0:27:16]: But, yeah, Like, for example, I think Youtube is fairly blue ocean still, for B2B, and I think most B2B companies are sleeping on it.
Erik [0:27:30]: Yep.
Erik [0:27:31]: And the reason is I think it's been made up in our mind that, like, they heard somebody say it's really hard.
Erik [0:27:36]: And it's not to say that it's not, but it's like, it almost prevents people from even starting and most companies are using it as, like, a video repository of, like, Yeah.
Erik [0:27:48]: Just their webinars or conference videos and stuff like that.
Erik [0:27:52]: So I think personally, like, it's one of the remaining content channels that has a lot of wide open space in it for me to be and night.
Erik [0:28:02]: I think it's also a very effective channel for audience growth, and conversion and the conversion piece.
Kyle [0:28:12]: Yep.
Erik [0:28:13]: For me, I'm, like, really interested in just Youtube right now.
Erik [0:28:17]: But, yeah, I'm curious like, what's your opinion on it?
Kyle [0:28:20]: I think you're right.
Kyle [0:28:20]: I think you're right I mean, like, when you do the market research, everybody knew Youtube was, like, the second largest search engine.
Kyle [0:28:26]: Right?
Kyle [0:28:26]: That floated around for a while.
Kyle [0:28:28]: But last year, Nielsen reported, it was the second largest streaming platform in the Us on Tv behind Disney.
Kyle [0:28:35]: Yes.
Kyle [0:28:36]: So now you're talking about a platform that's a major search engine and a major streamer inside the Us home, and so I just think the size of the audience there is something you can't ignore as a marketer.
Kyle [0:28:48]: And I think...
Kyle [0:28:49]: Like I mentioned earlier, like, people prefer video, whether it's...
Kyle [0:28:52]: They wanna be entertained.
Kyle [0:28:53]: They wanna learn something, Youtube can offer you both.
Kyle [0:28:57]: So, yeah, I do look over all of them.
Kyle [0:29:00]: I could tell you, like, my dashboard, has all our channels on it, but I've been spending a lot of time on Youtube over the last two years, trying to figure out what's the right content strategy on that channel based on our objectives.
Kyle [0:29:13]: And I think that's really important.
Kyle [0:29:14]: Like, you mentioned, Growing reach and demand.
Kyle [0:29:18]: I actually think that recipe is a little difficult because if you go to Youtube, Right, a lot of the folks who are, like, finding my first million or watching the hustle explain.
Kyle [0:29:32]: They're finding it through, like, browse and suggested.
Kyle [0:29:35]: It's just, like interesting and entertaining.
Kyle [0:29:38]: And so the audience is almost, like, passive.
Kyle [0:29:41]: They're finding it, and then they're getting hooked because the content is so good.
Kyle [0:29:45]: Whereas if you have another channel that you're, like, I need to design this for demand.
Kyle [0:29:51]: Yes.
Kyle [0:29:51]: You almost want a Youtube channel that's still search based or rooted in some search keywords because you want the intention there.
Kyle [0:30:00]: Like, somebody's looking to do a thing and learn a thing.
Kyle [0:30:03]: And so that's actually been something we've tried to figure out as, like, how do you design something that grows reach and reach as large audiences, but at the same time, drives value for the business.
Kyle [0:30:15]: I do think you can do it.
Kyle [0:30:16]: I just think it is harder than people think, And the other thing I'll say is, like, you mentioned Youtube being hard.
Kyle [0:30:23]: I would say video production has become easier, like, people can use their iphones, they can get the sure seven mic set up at home.
Kyle [0:30:33]: Riverside Des scripts, like, all these tools make it easier to create and publish.
Kyle [0:30:39]: But I will say Youtube from what we've seen as a unique beast.
Kyle [0:30:43]: Mh.
Kyle [0:30:44]: Like, the channels that feel more Youtube native, Yeah where we're ob over the titles the thumbnails, the editing the pacing, the hooks, the story structure.
Kyle [0:30:54]: Right?
Kyle [0:30:55]: To get that right is hard.
Kyle [0:30:57]: And I do think, like, if I'm a marketer, and I wanna invest in Youtube, I've been telling a couple friends this.
Kyle [0:31:03]: I'm like, if you're gonna go into Youtube, be ready to ask for head count for a producer.
Kyle [0:31:08]: Mh.
Kyle [0:31:09]: And I think a great producer behind the scenes, who's Youtube native.
Erik [0:31:14]: Yeah.
Kyle [0:31:15]: Can elevate your Youtube channel significantly.
Kyle [0:31:18]: Like, the marketer is gonna know the audience.
Kyle [0:31:22]: They're gonna know the content even, like, what information is inside the script.
Kyle [0:31:27]: Yep.
Kyle [0:31:28]: They're gonna know how do I convert someone through a link in the top comment or description.
Kyle [0:31:33]: But the producer gonna know thumbnail title packaging.
Kyle [0:31:37]: The producer gonna know how are we gonna shoot this?
Kyle [0:31:40]: What's the editing and pacing look like?
Kyle [0:31:42]: How do I keep someone's attention because the average view duration on the video is so critical from a signal standpoint?
Kyle [0:31:48]: To the algorithm.
Kyle [0:31:50]: Yep.
Kyle [0:31:50]: And so the one thing I'll say is, like, folks go into Youtube and sometimes they just, like, record something and throw it up there.
Kyle [0:31:57]: And then they say, oh it's not working.
Kyle [0:31:59]: Yes.
Kyle [0:31:59]: It wasn't made for Youtube.
Kyle [0:32:01]: And I think understanding the formats that work on that platform is critical if you're gonna go that way.
Erik [0:32:08]: Completely agree.
Erik [0:32:08]: And that's where it's like, I'm very bullish on podcasts on Youtube.
Erik [0:32:15]: I believe.
Erik [0:32:17]: So if it's not number one, it's number two, but I believe it's the number one podcast platform as well just from a consumption standpoint.
Erik [0:32:24]: But when you're creating a podcast, are you deciding in your mind that we are creating a Youtube podcast or we're creating a audio spotify Apple podcast.
Erik [0:32:38]: So that's actually an interesting decision right there.
Erik [0:32:42]: And then to your point that doesn't have to be the only and realistically, it shouldn't be the only Youtube content you're doing to really crack Youtube.
Erik [0:32:53]: It's like, let's do Youtube first video content is purely designed for Youtube in mind, and you'll create...
Erik [0:33:03]: Rather than a Youtube serving as your repurposing video platform.
Erik [0:33:08]: Like, we've got video content over here.
Erik [0:33:10]: Let's just put it on Youtube.
Erik [0:33:11]: That's where Yeah.
Erik [0:33:13]: I think you can start to unlock, you know, the channel much more.
Erik [0:33:17]: And where I see...
Erik [0:33:18]: And I'd be curious if you guys do any of this.
Erik [0:33:20]: I think B2B has an advantage a little bit in Youtube that they're not thinking about very often against the creators on Youtube, and which is budget.
Erik [0:33:30]: And so I think that, like, a little bit of budget applied two organic videos on Youtube So Youtube targeting.
Erik [0:33:42]: You can get putting in a little bit of boosted budget on videos that are already working, the targeting is not as good as like Linkedin, but it's still pretty good.
Erik [0:33:53]: You can target people like, Everybody who watches videos on this channel, I wanna get this video of ours that's already performed well in front of all of them.
Erik [0:34:02]: Or all of the people who are subscribed to this newsletter of ours, when they open up Youtube, I want them to be served this video of ours.
Erik [0:34:11]: And it's actually not that expensive on, like, a Cpm basis to do stuff like that.
Erik [0:34:16]: But, yeah, have you experimented with any of, like, you've got this great organic content engine going?
Erik [0:34:22]: Do you apply any paid on top of that or paid from the organic to then repurpose those into ads to drive demand?
Erik [0:34:32]: There's almost two ways.
Erik [0:34:33]: You can apply paid to grow the audience?
Erik [0:34:35]: Or use the content that performed really well to inform what your ads to drive to Hubspot might be.
Kyle [0:34:42]: Yeah.
Kyle [0:34:42]: We've gone through a bit of a cycle on this one.
Kyle [0:34:44]: We've tested like on platform ads.
Kyle [0:34:47]: Where we saw little success was cross platform ads, which was interesting where...
Kyle [0:34:52]: So I don't think Youtube would ever admit this because they're incentivized to make money, but I do think when you run ads on a channel, you can see negative performance from organic.
Kyle [0:35:03]: And so we have been scared away from that where we've said, you know, we really wanna keep this audience organic if we can.
Erik [0:35:10]: Right.
Kyle [0:35:11]: And we've said to your question, like, how do you use paid to bring people in without hurting the organic performance of the channel.
Kyle [0:35:19]: So we did a couple, like, cross platform strategies where we posted a Youtube video as a Facebook ad.
Kyle [0:35:26]: Mh.
Kyle [0:35:27]: And it lends itself to that audience because it's so visual from the thumbnail and title standpoint, and you could click someone will click, go over to Youtube and watch the video and that cross platform experience is actually pretty seamless to watch the video.
Kyle [0:35:42]: So we've seen a little success there.
Kyle [0:35:45]: And then we definitely repo Youtube videos into our newsletters as, like, additional content to check out.
Kyle [0:35:53]: Or embedded in a blog post as like, an added value.
Kyle [0:35:58]: Right?
Kyle [0:35:58]: So most of what we're doing is we're trying to boost the organic viewership on the channel and using paid minimally for Youtube, in particular.
Erik [0:36:10]: Yeah.
Erik [0:36:10]: I mean, the organic has to work first.
Erik [0:36:14]: Like, that step one.
Erik [0:36:15]: And then, yeah, I do think what can happen is your click through rate in your average view duration can start getting shot a little bit if you, like, apply too much paid to it.
Erik [0:36:29]: So those are the a few of the metrics that Youtube's is looking at to say, should I send this video to more people organically as well.
Erik [0:36:37]: Yep.
Erik [0:36:38]: And so definitely something to be careful of, but I do think especially for Youtube first videos that are more like, maybe mid funnel or even, like, bottom of funnel.
Erik [0:36:48]: We can have a hundred percent certainty with a little bit of paid that we're gonna get those in front of the right people.
Erik [0:36:55]: I think it's something interesting to experiment with?
Kyle [0:36:58]: Yeah.
Kyle [0:36:58]: No doubt.
Kyle [0:36:59]: It's like, what's your business objective?
Kyle [0:37:00]: What's your model Right?
Kyle [0:37:02]: Another paid play that we've had a lot of success with to your point around, like, mid bottom funnel.
Kyle [0:37:08]: We do a lot of creator partnerships.
Kyle [0:37:11]: Mh.
Kyle [0:37:11]: We invest significantly in, like, independent Youtubers, and there's a lot of them that are focused on educational kinda middle funnel down funnel content.
Kyle [0:37:20]: We had a video a while back.
Kyle [0:37:22]: We worked with someone on how to build the free website, and they kinda talked about all the players in the space, whether that was Squarespace or wordpress and Hubspot Cms has mentioned, and it feels native and organic to the video.
Kyle [0:37:36]: And the video itself did well organically.
Kyle [0:37:39]: Right?
Kyle [0:37:39]: But we were a paid sponsor within that video.
Kyle [0:37:42]: Yep.
Kyle [0:37:42]: And so that's another play we've tried where we'll run paid with channels that are ranking well organically.
Erik [0:37:50]: Yeah.
Erik [0:37:50]: Which is great because the more that the ad, can feel like and look like and be a piece of content that you would normally see on the channel.
Erik [0:38:02]: Sure.
Erik [0:38:03]: The more success it likely will have.
Kyle [0:38:07]: Yeah.
Kyle [0:38:07]: Definitely.
Kyle [0:38:07]: Yeah.
Kyle [0:38:08]: I think the packaging is really important.
Kyle [0:38:10]: Obviously, there's that line of, like, you don't wanna do a bait and switch.
Kyle [0:38:14]: Right?
Kyle [0:38:14]: Like, it's definitely...
Kyle [0:38:15]: You're still promoting.
Kyle [0:38:16]: Mh.
Kyle [0:38:16]: But I think if it's a valuable promotion.
Kyle [0:38:19]: I think audiences are less likely to hit skip.
Erik [0:38:23]: Is there like a another tactic that you've uncovered recently that you've found pretty interesting for just any of whether newsletter or Youtube podcast, any, you know, creator.
Erik [0:38:35]: It could be small could be big.
Erik [0:38:37]: I'm just curious, like, you know, you all are probably constantly sort of experimenting innovating.
Erik [0:38:42]: So, yeah, is there's something that you found that's unlocked a new insight for you recently?
Kyle [0:38:47]: Yeah.
Kyle [0:38:47]: One experiment we ran last quarter...
Kyle [0:38:50]: That we've shared with customers it's pretty cool.
Kyle [0:38:52]: We just call it, like, the incentivized sign up.
Kyle [0:38:55]: So you're running like, a newsletter ad.
Kyle [0:38:57]: Right?
Kyle [0:38:57]: And you could run a Facebook ad asking someone to subscribe.
Kyle [0:39:02]: That is one option, and it could go over pretty well.
Kyle [0:39:05]: But your cost per sub may be a little high, it maybe five to ten dollars.
Kyle [0:39:09]: If you're trying to drive that down and to get it into, like, the two to four dollar range.
Kyle [0:39:14]: What we've done is we've going back to our conversation about, like, offer matches and premium content.
Kyle [0:39:20]: Yep.
Kyle [0:39:21]: Each of our newsletters actually spent time making a piece of premium content.
Kyle [0:39:26]: So we have, like, a prompt library from the team at mind.
Kyle [0:39:29]: Mh.
Kyle [0:39:30]: We have a business ideas database from the team at the hustle.
Kyle [0:39:34]: Right?
Kyle [0:39:34]: So you have these...
Kyle [0:39:35]: Offers that are a little more in endeavor than just what you'll get in the newsletter, and we offer that inside the ad.
Kyle [0:39:44]: So we'll say something like, you know, sign up for the hustle today, get access to the business ideas database.
Kyle [0:39:51]: I'm simplifying.
Kyle [0:39:52]: But the idea is it's not just this newsletter you're gonna get.
Kyle [0:39:58]: We actually have some additional content that we think you'll get value from.
Kyle [0:40:02]: And so we've tested, you know, an Ab b test of, like, straight subscriber ads to incentivize, sign up ads, which offer, like an additional utility or asset.
Kyle [0:40:11]: And those seem to
Erik [0:40:13]: be doing pretty well for us.
Erik [0:40:13]: Super smart.
Erik [0:40:15]: Yeah.
Erik [0:40:15]: Super smart.
Erik [0:40:16]: Especially when, like, that additional value is related to the content that will be ongoing from that newsletter.
Kyle [0:40:27]: Yeah.
Kyle [0:40:27]: I think that's the piece.
Kyle [0:40:28]: Like, we talked about a little early.
Kyle [0:40:30]: That's what people miss.
Erik [0:40:31]: Yeah.
Kyle [0:40:32]: So, like, you have this real estate and instead of offering value.
Kyle [0:40:36]: You're putting a promotional message out there.
Kyle [0:40:38]: And you're saying, why isn't it working?
Kyle [0:40:40]: Well, because we all scroll past the ads that are overly promotional.
Kyle [0:40:45]: Right?
Kyle [0:40:45]: It's, like, just offer the audience something of value and I think you'll see better performance.
Erik [0:40:50]: Yeah.
Erik [0:40:50]: And, like, value I think now can be seen a little bit more with high effort.
Erik [0:40:57]: Mh.
Erik [0:40:58]: So, like, that's a high effort thing.
Erik [0:41:00]: You all did there.
Kyle [0:41:02]: Oh, yeah.
Erik [0:41:02]: Like, it it's much easier to just run the ad or, like, post the promo, just going directly to the thing, but you took the time and produce something that was high effort.
Erik [0:41:12]: As more and more content comes on these platforms, I think like, the high effort stuff, which you can't fake stands out.
Erik [0:41:22]: And it's...
Erik [0:41:24]: People are smart.
Erik [0:41:25]: And so, like, they see, like, yeah, that's the thing that will, like, kind of break the feed for them.
Kyle [0:41:31]: I'm so glad you said that.
Kyle [0:41:32]: We're, like, we have this debate all the time.
Kyle [0:41:34]: Right?
Kyle [0:41:34]: Around, like, Ai content, editorial content.
Kyle [0:41:39]: And like, our stance is editorial grade content will outperform.
Kyle [0:41:42]: Yep.
Kyle [0:41:43]: Ai produced content.
Kyle [0:41:44]: And, like, I think, there's a lot of B2B marketers out there who run to the Shiny tools, and they're putting stuff out there, and it does feel like some of the conversations are, like, oh, Ai is going to be able to do x y and z.
Kyle [0:42:00]: Yes.
Kyle [0:42:01]: It's gonna be able to enable people.
Kyle [0:42:03]: No doubt.
Kyle [0:42:04]: Increase productivity, you know, myself, like, writing a newsletter or social post.
Kyle [0:42:08]: I'm way faster.
Kyle [0:42:09]: Yep.
Kyle [0:42:09]: Having it as my editor and researcher to help me.
Kyle [0:42:12]: But I still think what you just said so important is, like, editorial grade content is going to stand out in the feed.
Kyle [0:42:21]: It's going to stand out in the inbox.
Kyle [0:42:23]: And I think like, we're seeing odd go that way anyway.
Kyle [0:42:26]: Right?
Kyle [0:42:26]: Like, we all subscribe to subs newsletters and B have newsletters from people who have done the job and their clear thinkers and they're helpful, and I wanna go read what they have to say instead of audiences some random blister that I find online.
Kyle [0:42:42]: Right?
Kyle [0:42:43]: Like, I am trying to learn from an individual who has experience and the content editorial grade.
Kyle [0:42:50]: They've taken the time to do research and go get a quote and pull like, a reputable sources into it, and it is hard.
Kyle [0:42:57]: Yeah.
Kyle [0:42:57]: I mean, you nailed it.
Kyle [0:42:58]: It is hard to do.
Kyle [0:43:00]: But I think it's worth it.
Kyle [0:43:01]: I think it's worth it for sure.
Erik [0:43:03]: Yeah.
Erik [0:43:03]: Because it's, like, if everybody has access to the tool, what can you possibly do that somebody else can't do.
Erik [0:43:09]: So the more we can generate transcripts or original insight or research that do not exist inside the Ll?
Erik [0:43:19]: Yeah.
Erik [0:43:20]: Then the more our content is going to actually be differentiated from what anybody else can produce.
Erik [0:43:27]: Yeah.
Erik [0:43:28]: And it's just more work.
Erik [0:43:29]: So it's like, it's simple.
Erik [0:43:31]: There's gotta do more work.
Erik [0:43:32]: It's not easy,
Kyle [0:43:34]: but no.
Erik [0:43:35]: And I think, like, one note too, I'll just mention on that is for Youtube, to your point, people are watching Youtube channels on their living room Tvs now.
Erik [0:43:44]: Mh.
Erik [0:43:45]: So it's like...
Erik [0:43:47]: What type of content are people use to watching on their living room Tv.
Erik [0:43:52]: We should get in that mindset, which is like when we're creating the content if we hold ourselves to that bar?
Erik [0:44:00]: It's gonna be very difficult to not succeed with it.
Kyle [0:44:05]: Yeah.
Kyle [0:44:05]: Like, I was, gosh.
Kyle [0:44:08]: This must been a couple weeks ago.
Kyle [0:44:09]: I saw this interview, Colin and Sami.
Kyle [0:44:11]: Mh.
Kyle [0:44:12]: That creator based Youtube channel.
Kyle [0:44:13]: They'd had interviewed.
Kyle [0:44:14]: Patty Gallo.
Kyle [0:44:15]: Youtube strategist.
Kyle [0:44:16]: And they went off on this kinda tangent around why doesn't it target the retailer have its own Youtube studio.
Kyle [0:44:23]: It'd be, like, a no brainer.
Kyle [0:44:24]: They could do shopping content.
Kyle [0:44:27]: They could do fashion and apparel content.
Kyle [0:44:29]: And they'd be able to build an audience on the platform that would be incredibly valuable compared to just, like, the one fifteen second spot that passes through your feed.
Erik [0:44:41]: Yep.
Kyle [0:44:41]: And I do think, like, Bill Simmons at the ringer finally, like, upgraded the studio for his pod.
Kyle [0:44:47]: I do think the talk shows are starting to go more, like in person in studio because of what you're talking about.
Kyle [0:44:54]: Right?
Kyle [0:44:55]: It's not necessarily, like, Tv studio quality.
Kyle [0:44:57]: Yep.
Kyle [0:44:58]: We joke around.
Kyle [0:44:59]: We call it premium Diy.
Kyle [0:45:00]: It's like, you're still doing it yourself, You know, you're going on Amazon and buying the mics and the lights and everything, but there's a gloss to it.
Kyle [0:45:07]: There's a little bit more polished where you're, like, Hey.
Kyle [0:45:10]: This is reputable.
Kyle [0:45:11]: It's credible.
Kyle [0:45:11]: I wanna watch this thing?
Kyle [0:45:13]: And I think you nailed it where it's, like, where is our audience spending their time?
Kyle [0:45:17]: And can we make content for that channel in particular.
Erik [0:45:21]: It was nice seven years ago when audio quality, podcast and even need video.
Erik [0:45:25]: Audio quality did better.
Erik [0:45:27]: Just use your airpods or whatever, like,
Kyle [0:45:30]: sure.
Erik [0:45:30]: So...
Erik [0:45:30]: But, no.
Erik [0:45:31]: I think net net, it's better for everyone.
Erik [0:45:33]: Alright, Kyle, We're at time.
Erik [0:45:35]: We could probably talk for two more hours days.
Erik [0:45:38]: Yeah.
Erik [0:45:38]: Oh, So, yeah, last question just be like, we covered a lot, but like, anything else you are excited about coming up for you guys, content trends you're seeing that you're like, oh, this is a small trend, I'm noticing in this corner over here.
Erik [0:45:56]: I'm keeping my eye on that because usually small little trends turn into big behaviors or just yeah.
Erik [0:46:02]: Anything at else you're like excited about with all this content stuff.
Erik [0:46:04]: Gosh.
Kyle [0:46:06]: I nerd out out over all of it.
Kyle [0:46:08]: I would say...
Kyle [0:46:08]: And I don't think this is new new, like not like, hot off the press, but the last couple months, Linkedin video is interesting to me.
Kyle [0:46:14]: Linkedin video is interesting.
Kyle [0:46:16]: I myself have, like, moved off, x and, like, I'm on Linkedin for business content connecting with peers and other marketers and, like, just trying to learn new things.
Kyle [0:46:26]: I know the algorithm previously was pushing a lot of vertical video.
Kyle [0:46:32]: They've since pulled back a little bit.
Kyle [0:46:34]: We've seen on our internals is like, okay.
Kyle [0:46:36]: It's not doing as well as it used to.
Kyle [0:46:38]: But I do think Linkedin has an interesting ecosystem.
Kyle [0:46:42]: They have Linkedin learning.
Kyle [0:46:43]: They have the vertical video format.
Kyle [0:46:45]: I do think in b2b to b, it's definitely an interesting channel to be on to be able to get in front of your prospects.
Erik [0:46:53]: Yeah.
Erik [0:46:53]: To me, it's one of those channels you have to be on and be intentional about it.
Erik [0:46:57]: Which is tough because it's like, If every channel needs to be that channel first, Linkedin first, Youtube first, newsletter first.
Erik [0:47:05]: And there's three lines you can, like, connect to the content together, but kind of reform it in a way that makes it more native.
Erik [0:47:12]: But, yeah, I guess the point is just like, we shouldn't think of these things as it's going to be easy.
Erik [0:47:19]: Like, we shouldn't set an extreme goal, which is, like, we wanna generate demand through content and then not resource it or plan for it to match and map to that goal in the twenty twenty five environment.
Erik [0:47:34]: Like, putting one content person, owning Linkedin, Youtube newsletter, social, it's tough.
Erik [0:47:40]: It's a tough position to be in a lot of companies that are in that.
Erik [0:47:43]: So it's like, I think it's just, yeah, mapping what the goal is correctly to what the res sourcing is for that goal.
Erik [0:47:50]: And I think it's important for everyone to remember.
Erik [0:47:51]: I think you all are an incredible case study.
Erik [0:47:55]: But as you mentioned earlier, you've got, like, fifty team members Yeah.
Erik [0:47:59]: Working on all that.
Erik [0:48:00]: And so other companies may be in different positions.
Erik [0:48:04]: And so, like, scope down the goal a little bit and, like, be a little more prioritized about what you're targeting.
Kyle [0:48:11]: Yeah.
Kyle [0:48:11]: For sure.
Kyle [0:48:11]: I have a buddy who works at a small agency in upstate, New York, and he has a fantastic Linkedin presence, and the company itself, I think only twenty people.
Kyle [0:48:21]: Maybe thirty, but he's able to plan, batch record, and he works with a contract producer editor.
Kyle [0:48:29]: Yep.
Kyle [0:48:29]: He rents, you know, a podcast studio in his city to do a day of recording.
Kyle [0:48:35]: And then he's got content for the next month.
Kyle [0:48:37]: Right?
Kyle [0:48:37]: And, like, I think that's the thing is you win in pre production.
Kyle [0:48:42]: What's the plan?
Kyle [0:48:43]: What do you wanna cover?
Kyle [0:48:44]: And then you're able to execute against that for the next month?
Kyle [0:48:49]: I think to your point, we're lucky, like, we have a daily news product.
Kyle [0:48:54]: So we have folks who are, like, actively sourcing stories and headlines and putting that out.
Kyle [0:48:59]: But I think for most marketers, you know, ideal team of three.
Kyle [0:49:04]: I always talk about team of three is, like, your demand gen marketer, or your producer, your writer.
Kyle [0:49:08]: Mh.
Kyle [0:49:09]: Get a team of three, you could do an incredible program.
Kyle [0:49:12]: Yep.
Kyle [0:49:13]: If you're a team of one, and your team of one with a little budget, I think you can do a fantastic job outsourcing some of the additional.
Kyle [0:49:21]: Yes.
Kyle [0:49:21]: Work.
Kyle [0:49:22]: It's just...
Kyle [0:49:22]: You're right.
Kyle [0:49:23]: You gotta do the hard stuff.
Kyle [0:49:24]: You gotta do the research.
Kyle [0:49:25]: You can gotta put a ton into prep production.
Kyle [0:49:27]: Yep.
Kyle [0:49:27]: Batch record, batch right and then figure out what the distribution is after that.
Kyle [0:49:31]: But it can be done for sure.
Kyle [0:49:33]: Hundred
Erik [0:49:33]: percent.
Erik [0:49:33]: Especially now more than that.
Erik [0:49:35]: To be honest.
Erik [0:49:35]: Like, yes, there's more channels.
Erik [0:49:37]: There's more formats and all of that, but there's also more tools, more niche, agencies, freelancers, specialists, that kind of stuff too.
Erik [0:49:44]: So yeah.
Erik [0:49:45]: I guess we can end on this note a little bit of optimism, which is, like, I think it's scary for a lot of marketers and content people right now, like, oh, Ai is coming for all of our jobs and whatever.
Erik [0:49:54]: I kinda think it's like one of the best time...
Erik [0:49:57]: We'll look back on this, and be like, this is one of the best times.
Erik [0:50:00]: Ever to be in marketing or be in content right now.
Erik [0:50:05]: With the creativity we can execute on, the tools we have, the channels we have.
Erik [0:50:10]: So I'm trying to be a little positive On I'm with you.
Kyle [0:50:15]: You gotta have fun of it.
Kyle [0:50:16]: Right?
Kyle [0:50:16]: It's like, how do you not love it?
Kyle [0:50:17]: These tools are incredible.
Kyle [0:50:18]: Right?
Kyle [0:50:19]: And now it's like, okay.
Kyle [0:50:20]: Like, how can I learn this new tool and learn it?
Kyle [0:50:22]: I remember, like, coming up.
Kyle [0:50:24]: You're, like, I'm watched whiteboard Friday with Ram fish in every Friday?
Kyle [0:50:27]: I'm like, I'm gonna learn Seo.
Kyle [0:50:28]: That's what I'm gonna do.
Kyle [0:50:29]: Right?
Kyle [0:50:30]: And then it's like, okay.
Kyle [0:50:31]: There's a shift in the market.
Kyle [0:50:32]: Now I get to learn these new tools and, like, I'm with you.
Kyle [0:50:35]: I'm excited about it.
Kyle [0:50:36]: Our team's excited about it.
Kyle [0:50:37]: I think listeners should definitely lean into it.
Kyle [0:50:40]: Awesome man.
Erik [0:50:41]: Kyle is great, man.
Erik [0:50:42]: I would recommend everybody to go to your Linkedin, follow you there, Dm you, you know, whatever the case may be.
Erik [0:50:50]: And I think your newsletter is linked on your Linkedin as well.
Erik [0:50:53]: So you're writing about all the stuff that we talked about today on an ongoing basis, so I'd recommend everybody to subscribe to your newsletter.
Erik [0:51:00]: And then, yeah, go study these content brands that you all are doing at Hubspot.
Erik [0:51:05]: Like, there's no better learning to be had than, like, studying what people are doing.
Erik [0:51:09]: And so maybe we can help get some more subscribers.
Erik [0:51:12]: And, yeah, anywhere else you just wanna, like, direct people to other than those places?
Kyle [0:51:18]: Yeah.
Kyle [0:51:18]: I mean, like, definitely check out our media brands.
Kyle [0:51:20]: Obviously, the hustle, my first million are some favorites, but masters and marketing, the team over there is doing an incredible job.
Kyle [0:51:27]: Scientists scaling and mind are kinda like up and come, the creative on the science of scaling Youtube channels like, beautiful.
Kyle [0:51:34]: I always tell the producer I slack Them I'm like, you're doing great work.
Kyle [0:51:37]: So check out those media brands and appreciate the plug for Linkedin.
Kyle [0:51:41]: Hit me up.
Kyle [0:51:42]: I'm always looking for examples of cool things people are built.
Kyle [0:51:45]: So would love to know what's out there and where
Erik [0:51:48]: people are having success.
Erik [0:51:49]: Love it.
Erik [0:51:50]: Awesome.
Erik [0:51:50]: Thanks, Kyle.
Erik [0:51:51]: Appreciate, man.
Erik [0:51:52]: Thanks, Erik.