There are apps and devices that help us what we eat, weigh, spend, save, how much water we drink, how many steps we take. But what is all of this tracking doing for us? Are we using these tools and this information to improve our wellbeing or have we succumbed to the tyranny of tracking?
Joining me on the podcast is registered dietitian and workplace wellness consultant Cassie Christopher. Tracking is a a topic that comes up a lot for each of us in the coaching work that we do and in this episode, we explore what tracking offers, where it often goes wrong, and how we can leverage the benefits without it becoming an unhealthy or unhelpful practice.
I’m also excited to share that the Weighless Program is once again accepting new members! The next group begins on January 1st. All the details are at weighless.life/enroll.
The case study of tracking and the experience of enjoyment
Losing sight of the purpose of tracking and focusing on numbers
The burden of tracking impacting quality of life.
The cultural messaging that undermines self-trust around food.
Setting reasonable goals and avoiding perfectionism.
Using trackers as one tool among others for behavior modification.
Finding Intrinsic Motivation for Exercise
The Option of Not Tracking
There are apps and devices that help us what we eat, weigh, spend, save, how much water we drink, how many steps we take. But what is all of this tracking doing for us? Are we using these tools and this information to improve our wellbeing or have we succumbed to the tyranny of tracking?
Joining me on the podcast is registered dietitian and workplace wellness consultant Cassie Christopher. Tracking is a a topic that comes up a lot for each of us in the coaching work that we do and in this episode, we explore what tracking offers, where it often goes wrong, and how we can leverage the benefits without it becoming an unhealthy or unhelpful practice.
I’m also excited to share that the Weighless Program is once again accepting new members! The next group begins on January 1st. All the details are at weighless.life/enroll.
Monica Reinagel has been helping people create healthier lives for more than 15 years through her Nutrition Diva podcast, books, online coaching programs and in-person workshops. As a licensed and board-certified nutritionist, her approach is grounded in science but is also practical and realistic. Monica is also a former professional opera singer.
Editor
Brock Armstrong
Brock has been working in audio since the 1980s (the late 1980s to be sure) and has focussed his expertise on podcasting since 2007.
Guest
Cassie Christopher
Whether working one-on-one, facilitating group experiences, or planning strategic change for entire organizations, Cassie brings her belief that humans are inherently good and need support, not blame.
What is Change Academy?
Learn how to cultivate a more productive mindset, form sustainable habits, and create a lifestyle that supports both your goals and your wellbeing with host, Monica Reinagel. Drawing on decades of expertise and experience, Monica provides guidance on navigating the challenging process of behavior change in a fun and accessible way. Learn more and find show notes for every episode at https://changeacademypodcast.com
Monica:
We live in an era of self quantification. There are apps and devices and wearables that help us track our steps, our sleep, our heart rate, our heart rate variability, whatever that is. Help us track what we eat, way, spend, save, how much water we drink, how much alcohol we drink. My question is, what is all this tracking doing for us? Are we using these tools and this information to improve our well-being, or have we succumbed to the tyranny of tracking?
Monica:
If you're starting to feel like your trackers are pushing you around, this episode is for you.
Brock:
Alright. Alright. If you want, take your seats or lace up your sneaks. We're about to get started.
Monica:
Welcome to the Change Academy podcast. I'm your host, Monica Rineagle. And in this show, we talk about what it takes to create healthier mindsets and habits in our own lives as well as how we can create healthier communities and workplaces. Whether you're working on your own health and well-being or promoting healthy behaviors is your job, We're gonna talk about what works, what's hard, what's needed, and what's next. Let's jump in.
Monica:
Joining me on the podcast today is my good friend and friend of the change academy, Cassie Christopher. Cassie is a registered dietitian and so much more. She works with individuals, helping them to find freedom from food and body obsession, also works with organizations and workplaces to decrease employee burnout, and promote worksite well-being. And today on the podcast, we're talking about tracking. This is a topic that comes up a lot for each of us in the coaching work that we do.
Monica:
And we were talking about it recently with each other. And I thought, wait a minute. Stop talking. Let's turn on the mic. This is a conversation that I think will be valuable for you to hear.
Monica:
So spoiler, we're not going to come down either for or against tracking or trackers. Instead, we're exploring what tracking offers, where it often goes wrong, and the best ways to leverage the benefits without it becoming an unhealthy or an unhelpful practice. I'm also excited to share with you that the Way Less program is once again accepting new members. This is for the first time in almost a year, Because all of that time, we have been busy building a brand new updated version of the program that, over the last 7 years, has helped hundreds of people stop dieting and find a saner and more sustainable approach to managing their weight. And this new reboot is more flexible, more convenient, and more affordable.
Monica:
So if you have been waiting, your wait is over. The next group will begin on January 1st, and all the details are at way less dot life/enroll. And now here is my conversation with Cassie.
Cassie:
I'm so happy to be here. Thanks for having me.
Monica:
We are talking about tracking today. I'm curious what your just sort of knee jerk response to the idea of tracking. Are you kind of a, like, oh, knowledge is power. Tell me more about myself kind of a person or more of a, it's none of your business how many glasses of water I've had today or whether I meditated? Like, where do you fall on that?
Cassie:
You know, I love that you present this as a spectrum because I Think for me, it's really, I could be anywhere on the spectrum. If I'm not interested in it, it's gonna feel like strudgery, like asking me to track every single thing that I eat. I mean, as a nutrition professional, that just sounds terrible even. And I know that I sometimes ask people to do that because it can be useful. Right.
Cassie:
And yet, you know, things like, for me personally, tracking whether or not I've taken a walk during the day, it does give me that Mhmm. Site into, is this behavior happening that I want to happen? And so I think, you you I can be on the knowledge is power side of things as long as I personally want the thing, and I'm not feeling compelled or like I should. You know? I think that should word is where, I start to wanna run away screaming when it comes to tracking.
Monica:
Well, I think that's exactly it. Of course, it depends on what we are being asked to track or considering tracking in our relationship to that thing is gonna determine some of that reaction. You know, my listeners know I'm kind of a spreadsheet geek. I I really love data. I love the stories that numbers can tell, and so I probably fall towards the, oh, tell me more about myself end of the spectrum for for most things, at least initially.
Monica:
And I think a lot of the people that I've worked with start out feeling curious, excited, interested, empowered by this tracking, and then something goes south in the relationship where it somehow turns and starts to become sort of, a tyranny, a tyrant instead of an empowerment. So I wanna start by just asserting, and you can fight me if you want. I know you won't hesitate to. That Tracking does serve useful purposes. It has a place.
Monica:
And one of the places that I see tracking being useful, and we're using this as a very broad term to include all of the different types of things that could be tracked. But I think it can often be useful as a source of information, as a way of gathering information about what's actually happening. And I can think of a A couple of examples, like, 1, sleep trackers have gotten really popular, wearables that you might wear on your wrist or somewhere else that supposedly I'm not sure how accurate they are, but, supposedly, they keep track of how much you're moving at night and then from that, they guess how much of your night you're spending in different stages of sleep. And a sleep tracker could help you identify patterns, right, between what time you go to bed and what time you get up and how much quality sleep you get or where in the night you are tending to be the most restless. So I could see it being useful, or one that you and I, I know, have used with our clients in the past is asking people to keep a dialogue for a period of time to help them or us get a better understanding of what's actually happening during their day, because sometimes people can't really report very accurately.
Monica:
So how about tracking as a way of gathering information?
Cassie:
I, so far, have no qualms. Okay? I I completely agree, and I think sleep is such an interesting, example to bring up because we're we're asleep. Like, it's kind of a black box. You don't know what's happening.
Cassie:
And so, you know, a a tracker to help you feel more rested really makes perfect sense. And I know a lot I mean, I've used them in my life as well, and and I know a lot of people who do and and seem to find a lot of value in that. And then, you know, nutrition, certainly and and I think we'll we'll get into maybe what some of the cons may be.
Monica:
For sure.
Cassie:
Because in my world, Working with people who are struggling with binge eating, emotional eating, the tracking can get to more of the disordered side of things. Mhmm. And so, you know, it can go south, but That is one of the reasons that I love your nutrition GPA app and use it myself occasionally when I need a tune up is because it's really looking at quality, you know, overall diet quality rather than focusing in on, you know, quantity, which I think is what a lot of people use tracking for. So
Monica:
Yeah.
Cassie:
So, yeah, tracking has its place. I definitely agree with that. And I think when we talk a little bit more about the dark side, I'll probably have a lot more to
Monica:
say. Yeah. Oh, and thank you for that vote of of confidence for the nutrition GPA. That that was actually born out, in part out of my frustration with some of the ways that the more traditional diet trackers tend to trip people up. And I like the way you put that that some of those other ones can get overly focused on quantity.
Monica:
Was that, you know, 54 calories or 58 calories as opposed to the quality of the choices that we're making and how they are sort of averaging out over time. But thanks for the plug, Cassie.
Cassie:
Always here for it.
Monica:
And so, yes, as a way of gathering information, especially when that information might be a little bit hard to see. Another place that I think tracking can be useful here, I think we're gonna start stepping into a little bit more contentious territory, and that is we tend to manage what we measure. And if we are not measuring it or not paying attention, sometimes, we're not managing it very well. So tracking can be a way of bringing something into our awareness in a way that causes us to be more responsive to that information. So and And I'm just gonna start right off with one of the most controversial ways that this works.
Monica:
We have a fair amount of research showing that people who weigh themselves regularly are much more successful at maintaining their weight long term. And I'm specifically talking about people who have lost weight and then continue to monitor themselves, have a better have a lower risk of relapse and regain. So this isn't just a sense Yeah. Well, people who never struggle with their weight are happy to get on the scale. So, this is specifically people who have lost weight.
Monica:
When they continue to weigh themselves regularly, they keep it off more frequently, which seems like an argument in favor of monitoring one's weight. Another similar example is that people who are trying to moderate their alcohol intake sometimes find it one of the first things that that Somebody might ask them to do is start keeping a log of how much they are drinking, how many nights a week are they drinking, how much are they drinking when they drink as a way of, yeah, managing, what they what they measure.
Cassie:
Yeah. I mean, you can't argue with the research on weight management, and That's one that I struggle with in terms of recommending to people Yeah. Because I often see the obsession start to form, you know, with weighing and trying to control weight, and it can become psychologically unhealthy for people who in my world. You know? And so it's it's It's where that behavior that is potentially neutral, right
Monica:
Mhmm.
Cassie:
Can and can then become something that is experienced as negative, painful, potentially shaming. And, you know, the other thing that I see people do there is measuring things that they don't plan on doing anything about. So it's like they use the results to, I don't know, torture themselves. And I do see that with weight a lot. The people will will weigh themselves, but they're not really in a place to, you know, change any sort of behavior.
Cassie:
They're not mentally in in a space for that, and yet, You know, they're weighing they're they're getting increasingly upset, and I'm sure that can happen with alcohol and other, you know, tracking as well. So it's kind of interesting where I Often will tell people like, okay. So maybe this is an evidence based behavior that you just don't need in your life because you're not trying to change it. You know? You're not trying to change that thing, so that's okay.
Cassie:
Stop doing that. You're just kind of torturing yourself.
Monica:
This this is really tricky because it is a behavior that I often recommend to people because I find so much value in it, and yet it can absolutely backfire. 1st of all, as a blanket recommendation, I think we need to be really sensitive to what people are bringing into the the process where they're coming from. For some people, this really is not a way to shore up their mental health, you know, not a way to Inspire, not a way to motivate it. It can it can really do a lot of damage. So I think we have to be really sensitive to the impact of this and and what people are prepared to do.
Monica:
I think we can do a lot of putting that information in context so that people really understand what that information means and does not mean and to make sure that it is having a constructive influence on what they're doing. And when it's not, I think we have to be ready to say, like, as you just said, I I think this is probably not helpful for you. So let's find a different way to gather information, to increase our awareness, to monitor the impact of what we're doing, and there are so many other ways. So, Yeah. I think it's one that that comes with a big asterisk.
Monica:
I always ask people if they're willing to try it, but I'm not gonna scores or insist because I think it can do a lot of damage. I really appreciate that insight, though, Cassie, about when we are measuring something that we are not satisfied with or happy with, but we are not yet prepared to do anything to change. That is a real light bulb for me about when that behavior can just be sort of self flagellation, you know, just to reinforce everything that's wrong with me. I can, you know, get on the scale or continue to write down, you know, all the things that I'm that I'm doing that are hurting me when I'm not prepared to change them. It reminds me a little bit of the conversation.
Monica:
We just had a couple of episodes back with Becky Campbell about stages of change.
Cassie:
Yeah. I think we're We always think that we should. There's that word again, which which I know you've spent, you know, other episodes talking about. But we think that we we should be doing the most optimal thing. And so if we wanna control our weight, and the research says that, you know, weighing ourselves is the way to do that, well, then we should be doing that.
Cassie:
And in my work with people, I really take a personalized approach of is that the most helpful thing for you? And oftentimes, for my folks who've Had, you know, decades of chronic dieting, and now they're really struggling with binge eating. Weighing isn't the most appropriate thing, and and we can talk later on about maybe some of the other things that are actually more useful and more helpful to measure.
Monica:
Absolutely. Yeah. Before we maybe turn and and look a little bit more at some of the potential problems with tracking, I had one other way that I came up with of of ways that tracking can be useful or ways that I've seen it play a positive role in people's behavior change efforts. But another one that I have mixed feelings about, and that is the use of habit trackers as a way of motivating to continue. And, usually, this takes the form of of a streak, some sort of app that is keeping track of your streaks, how many days in a row you did the thing.
Monica:
You you rang the bell. You met the goal. And the as those streaks get longer, you're more and more motivated not to break the streak. Yes. But, and I guess it's motivating until you break your streak for reasons that may be completely outside your control?
Monica:
And then does your entire motivational scaffold collapse because now you're back at day 0 again.
Cassie:
Yeah. Yeah. That would feel so terrible.
Monica:
Mhmm.
Cassie:
I've never been someone to have a 700 and some odd day streak,
Monica:
but
Cassie:
if if I was, I imagine it would feel horrible to, to break to break that.
Monica:
And and so I think when we go into when we use those kinds of trackers to collect that information and to bolster our motivation. We just need to be aware that that is a potential risk that if we first of all, that we might push ourselves to keep going when it might be not the best idea for us, like, to be exercising when we're unwell just so that we don't break our streak. You know, it can really start to undermine our better judgment. But also when that motivation is so extrinsic, it that is a a liability. And I am always looking even when people wanna use these things as a as a bridge, as a tool, as a support, always looking for how we can also be cultivating the intrinsic motivation that shore us up outside of our our apps.
Cassie:
Yeah. And and I think that intrinsic motivation is the thing that that keeps us going, whereas maybe the intrinsic motivation. The role was to get us started, get us feeling excited. So if we can find a way to Find the, you know, value based reason why we're doing something or some of the other intrinsic benefits In the midst of our streak, maybe that'll set us up for more success.
Monica:
I really love the way you say that when we're using these sorts of trackers that's important to be connecting whatever we're tracking to our values because that helps us see that, oh, this is not about perfection. You know, this is not about an unbroken streak. This is about a a value, something that is important to me.
Cassie:
Exactly. And you know what that makes me think of when we were first talking about this idea of an episode around tracking, I immediately was like, oh, yeah. I can tell you my my orange scary story Yeah. Where if if anyone's, you know, not familiar with the exercise franchise, You you go and do kind of a high intensity exercise while wearing a heart monitor, and then you get points for the amount of time you're spent, you know, in the higher elevation of of heart rates. And I was noticing as I was going That I was spending my entire workout, like, tapping on my heart rate monitor.
Cassie:
Like, is this thing on? Is the battery dead? Is this working? I feel like it's not accurate. I'm not getting my you know, I feel like I'm working really hard here, and I'm not getting, my points.
Cassie:
You know? Mhmm. And, and I was so distracted, by the points and and frustrated with it too. Like, frustrated with the technology. And For some reason, it definitely, in my mind, was not me needing to work harder.
Cassie:
It was definitely the technology. But I was so distracted by it. I didn't have a very good experience until one day I forgot my heart monitor at home, and I didn't I didn't borrow one. I just that I'm just gonna do it without, and I actually enjoyed my workout.
Monica:
Amazing. Yeah.
Cassie:
It was striking for me to go, wow. When I stop tracking and stop obsessing about the number of points I'm getting. I can actually notice I'm getting stronger. I can actually, you know, push myself in a new way. Of course, I also noticed the parts that were harder too, but I left feeling better emotionally, physically.
Cassie:
Like, it just was so much more enjoyable when I stopped tracking. And and so I think that's a really interesting case study when it comes to tracking and whether or not it's Helpful for you in any given situation.
Monica:
This is why I had to stop wearing a sleep tracker because I realized I was Trying so hard not to move in the middle of the night so that I wouldn't mess up my sleep tracker and lose points, you know, that I was actually, like, keeping myself awake trying to be still for my sleep tracker. Ridiculous. Right? Gosh. And this is An example of what I think of as mistaking the map for the territory, where we have this thing that we're using to get a read on how we're doing.
Monica:
And we get confused about what the point of this is and what what we are really working towards. This actually Comes up sometimes with people that use the nutrition GPA, which you mentioned earlier, where they start to get so focused on the points or their average or their grade that they forget that the the ultimate goal of this is not to get a good grade in this app. The ultimate goal is to start developing healthier eating habits that feel a little bit more ingrained and a little bit more consistent. And when we lose sight of that and start focusing just on the the the points in the app or the points on the the heart monitor or whatever, and then we start gaming the system, right, where we're just playing for the points or for the app or for the streak or whatever, and we've completely lost sight of why we wanted to develop that behavior or pursue that in the 1st place.
Cassie:
It's time to rethink when you get to that when you get to that point. I love your example of trying to stay still at night. I mean and it it's it's silly, but but we all if you've tracked, you've probably done something like this before or, like, my Orangetheory story. Like, it's it's really easy to get focused on the numbers, especially those of us who love a good number.
Monica:
Right?
Cassie:
And so it's it's easy to to kinda lose sight of of what the point of tracking us in the 1st place.
Monica:
What those numbers were intended to represent or or show us. Mhmm. You know, there's one other big category of drawback to the trackers. And this now I'm speaking specifically of the diet trackers. This comes up so often in the people that I talk to where They get to the point where they feel dependent on that tracker to sort of keep them in line.
Monica:
Like, the tracker. Even if nobody's looking at it, that is what is keeping them from going off the rails, and they really feel, maybe not addicted, but but sort of dependent. They're afraid to break up with their trackers for fear that without that external sort of chastity belt, they will have no other way of regulating their choices and their behaviors and everything will fall apart. So I often have people who come to me for work on weight management. They don't actually need to lose a lot of weight.
Monica:
What their goal is to safely break up with MyFitnessPal. You know? Wow. Or as one of my friends refers to it as MyFitnessTyrant because they've gotten to the point where they just don't trust themselves to know whether or not it's time to stop eating or whether or not they're hungry or how much they wanna eat. They've completely outsourced that awareness and that self control to a device.
Cassie:
Certainly. I I see this all the time, of course, in my work with binge and emotional eating, where the act of tracking or the mental preoccupation with food and how much food and when food, it becomes this constant thing on someone's mind, and it can actually start to impact someone's quality of life. Yeah. And the rigidity of needing to track and all of the thoughts. Really, it's it's the volume and the the burden of the obsessive thoughts I find, more so even than, you know, the app itself that becomes the real pain point for people and and what actually impacts their quality of life.
Cassie:
Yeah.
Monica:
And and we need to be alert to when our relationship with a tracker has gotten to the point where we feel like it's bossing us around. It's negatively imp like any bad relationship. You know? Yeah. Negatively impacting our quality of life, starting to mess with our head, you know, or starting to undermine our trust in ourselves.
Monica:
I think that's another red flag for me when that kind of comes up between the lines when people are talking about how they're using their tracker or their concerns about maybe stopping using the tracker.
Cassie:
Yeah. And, you know, I just wanna say to I think if someone feels like this, that they don't trust themselves around food, you come by it so naturally too because we just have to notice for a moment that all of the messaging around eating in our culture tends To be, like, that you can't trust yourself, that you're gonna, you know, go gangbusters on, A buffet, and and you're not gonna know when you're hungry or full. And then your daily life supports that because, You know, you get focused on work, and you're not used to listening to hunger and fullness cues, or you've, you know, done a lot of restrictive dieting. And so, again, like, you I'm disconnected from those hunger and fullness cues, and so it kind of then becomes this reinforcing it reinforces the idea that Someone can't trust themselves around food because they stress eat, and they feel like they've overeaten, and they can't trust themselves to stop, or they, you know, can't trust themselves to to listen to their hunger and fullness. And so for anyone out there feeling that going like, Oh, yeah.
Cassie:
This is me. Like, you come by this naturally. And I do I mean, I there is repair. That's what I do with people all the time. It's Possible to get back in touch with those things without the trackers, which I know is, you know, one of the things you work with people on too.
Monica:
I I really loved The way one of my clients expressed this, she said she her goal was to internalize a voice, not just of authority, but of kind authority. And I love that she, yeah, that she framed it like, yeah, there needs to be, an authority making good decisions for me, but it can be, a, internal, and it b, it can be kind. But maybe as we start to close the conversation, we can talk about some of the ways that that we see a legitimate and valid and helpful role for various kinds of trackers or methods of tracking in people's efforts to modify their behaviors and create lifestyles that are that feel healthy and sustainable. And we came up with a with a short list of ideas about ways that we could think about this. And the first one that you suggested was If you feel like there would be a benefit to tracking such as that information gathering benefit, then decide you're gonna track for a set period of time, not forever, and just know that going in.
Cassie:
Yeah. And and get really clear on why you're doing it. And listen for words like should in your mind and or listen for, you know, guilt that you might feel or worries that you may feel bad and and do some positive self talk around that. Or you can may determine that that's, you know, not right for you. You can really look at it as an experiment And, you know, be be aware of why you're doing it and what goal it is that you're trying to reach.
Monica:
Yeah. And and I love this idea of saying, like, I'm gonna do this for a week or something just to gather some information and and have that period of time set ahead of time. Yeah. You also mentioned setting reasonable goals when it comes to tracking, and I'm really curious to know what you meant by that. Say more about that.
Cassie:
Yeah. Well, when I'm talking about setting reasonable goals. I think it goes back to that idea of getting clear on why you're doing it At what you're hoping to attain. You know, sometimes it's helpful to just track everything you're eating because you You really do wanna see what's going on generally. Mhmm.
Cassie:
But sometimes, maybe what you're really most interested in is making sure that you're getting protein in or making sure that you're getting fiber in. And so, you know, you don't have to track every single little thing. Just Be aware of what it is you're trying to achieve and make it easy on yourself. You know? Don't don't do a lot of extra work.
Cassie:
In my experience, A lot of extra work or, you know, having this idea, oh, I'm gonna track for 3 months. Like, that's too much. Take your goal and l make it a little smaller. Like you said, Start with a week, see what that's like.
Monica:
Right. And, you know, you said earlier in our conversation that this often comes out of a desire to optimize. And so when we start to track, it can if we're not careful, it can somehow set up this expectation or this ambition that we're going to track, and therefore, we will eat perfectly, whatever that means. I don't even know what that means. But, you know, there's this idea I'm gonna track and I'm going to optimize and perfect my intake through this tracking.
Monica:
And I think that would be another unreasonable goal for tracking.
Cassie:
Yes. Certainly, crazy making to to try to eat perfectly. And, you know, people do it all the time, and and oftentimes, it's A subconscious thing that we try to, you know, eat perfect like a meal plan printout, if that's maybe a definition of perfect. And it's just it's just often not, reasonable for most people's daily lives, and so it kinda goes back to what is reasonable for you in your life.
Monica:
I would also say it's often not necessary in order to achieve your goals. You know?
Cassie:
That's true too. Yeah.
Monica:
So I wanna offer another way to integrate tracking into a more holistic and mentally healthy approach is not to see it as your only tool. So we can use trackers in combination with other strategies such as planning or environmental designer, what we, in the weight loss program, call habitat hacking or practices that increase our self awareness So we're not loading everything onto this tracker to be judge, jury, and executioner. It's 1 tool in our toolbox that we can use when and and to the extent that it is helpful to us.
Cassie:
For me, an example of this is I schedule. My workouts, they're in my calendar, and I go to a class twice a week. And I don't have to necessarily track that in any way. It just happens because it's been planned, like you were saying. And I often use for nutrition the nutrition side of things, I often use something that I call, for really lack of a better term, Meal scaffolding, which is this idea of making sure we're getting protein and fiber in routinely throughout the day.
Cassie:
And, you know, I go through and go, okay. Well, when do you wake up? When do you typically eat breakfast? What does your day look like? And we we just fit.
Cassie:
We kind of create a scaffold around what their day already looks like
Monica:
Mhmm.
Cassie:
For them to, you know, get these healthy components in, And it ends up being a lot easier to have that rough outline, that rough plan that you do every day Then, you know, kind of in the moment tracking or after the fact tracking going, well, how did it go?
Monica:
Right. Right. Sort of a template
Cassie:
Exactly.
Monica:
Is the way we often think of it or kind of a formula.
Cassie:
Yeah. And and sometimes, we are often thinking we have to track the actual behavior, But I really like one of the things that you brought up as well is, you know, it doesn't have to be the actual thing you ate or activity you did or hours you slept, maybe it would be helpful to pay attention to your emotional state or your mood, Your level of energy, you know, digestion as well or the things that you you know, the cause and effect in some way, the thing that you did and how it impacted you. And what I find for people is for for me, for example, for movement, When I do this and I go, oh my gosh. Exercise is like I have to do it for my mood. Mhmm.
Cassie:
In order to feel the amount of happiness that I wanna feel. I need to get my workout in. And so watching that emotional state actually created the intrinsic motivation
Monica:
Yes.
Cassie:
That I needed then to go, I better get to that workout. And it's not about, you know, how much muscle I put on or my weight or anything like that. It is it is about, I wanna feel good, And paying attention to that cause and effect really let me see that that that's happening when I move my body.
Monica:
That's such a great example. Much more motivating ultimately than just making sure that you're checking that box x number of times per week. One of the practices that we use in the weight loss program that I find I mean, here 7 years later, I still find this so powerful that I do it myself more days than not, and we call it the daily review. And we just take a few minutes. Well, you were saying, like, better to have a template than to just be thinking retroactively, but This is a regular practice where at the end of the day, we just kinda think back on what went well, you know, what felt good, what, you know, didn't feel as good as it could and why, you know, what could we what could we do to alter that in the future?
Monica:
And that, it's not really tracking in a in a very finite quantitative sense. I guess it's more qualitative tracking, enormously helpful in noticing the kinds of things that you're talking about, in noticing what has value for us, what's what really supports our well-being. And in the ways that we decide we wanna pay attention and keep notes, let's say. Maybe it's a little bit less loaded than tracking. You know, what form of that makes us feel most empowered?
Cassie:
Yeah. And and that self awareness really is what allows us to make choices and create new habits and behaviors that are in line with our values and then, you know, become self sustaining as a result.
Monica:
Which is why there's no one right dogmatic answer to the question of which tracking and should you be doing and how you should be doing it because it is all filtered through this process of self awareness and and reflection. But I also want to, just give, space for another option that you put on our list of solutions, and that was don't track at all.
Cassie:
Yeah. You know, sometimes, tracking, especially if it's something you've been doing for a long time and you feel like your self esteem or your self worth or whether or not you can be kind to yourself is Mhmm. Enmeshed in the tracking, that it impacts that in any way. And, again, If you live in modern culture, you come by this naturally because we're getting a lot of messages about
Monica:
how
Cassie:
what we eat or what we weigh makes us more or less valuable or moral. And I I won't get on that soapbox, but everybody can just snow. The soapbox is right next to me should it should it be required. It may be that not tracking is is going to be helpful. And, You know, for some people then, that can feel like they're letting themselves go or they're, you know, gonna lose control.
Cassie:
And And that's where I think getting help from a professional
Monica:
Yes.
Cassie:
Can be helpful. Right? Like, you're gonna in my work with clients, and and I know you're doing this as well. I'm helping someone reconnect with their bodies so that they can trust themselves
Brock:
Yeah.
Cassie:
To make those choices apart from the trackers. And and so So, yeah, tracking food, tracking movement, tracking whatever may not be the thing for you, and I just wanna give there's someone out there who needs to hear this, I think. Give you permission. Because I think we think, oh, it's optimal to track, so I should track because I should be optimal and perfect. And it's like, you know what?
Cassie:
Just let it go. Like, it it
Monica:
How's that working for you?
Cassie:
Is it stealing your happiness? Is it making life better? If it's not, then, you know, let it go. Find some other way to support yourself.
Monica:
Right. Is it helping? Yeah. I think Whenever a tool, whatever that tool is, has become a trap or a weapon that we are using to bludgeon ourselves, it's time to put that tool down, that doesn't mean that there aren't other tools that we can pick up.
Cassie:
Of course. And, you know, working with a professional, we've got lots of tools In our toolboxes.
Monica:
Right.
Cassie:
And whatever you do, you know, whether it's to track or whether it's not to track or whether it's to do more planning or think about, you know, how what you're doing fits into your values and goals that you have for your life. Be kind to yourself. You can practice that self kindness, that self compassion, and that's only going to increase your awareness and, you know, hone in these habits So that they become more intrinsically motivated and self sustaining over time.
Monica:
100%. Or, actually, I think with inflation, it's now up to about 100 and 50%, Cassie.
Cassie:
Wonderful.
Monica:
And I would just add to that prescription of self compassion, an an eyedropper full of curiosity, that compassionate curiosity that allows us to ask the good questions. And, you know, that always leads someplace good as does every time I invite you to come on the Change Academy podcast, Cassie. Thanks. This has been a great conversation. I really appreciate the insight that you bring to it, and I I just look forward to our next conversation.
Cassie:
Well, it's been a pleasure. Thank you for having me.
Monica:
Okay. Till next time. Just a couple of hours after Cassie and I taped our conversation, I got an email from one of the people I work with in the weigh less program Just giving me an update on her progress and what she had to say was so germane to this conversation that I think instead of takeaways, I'm just gonna read you this email. She wrote, I have finally given up my fitness pal. I have spent countless hours counting macros, counting calories.
Monica:
And honestly, all that tracking was making me hyper focused on food. Well, now I finally settled on trying to make each meal pretty decent without all the measuring and the counting. I have a much better grasp of what and how much I need. I feel so much more in control. I try not to be black or white, all or nothing anymore, and I'm under a £150 for the first time in around 30 years.
Monica:
Getting emails like that is absolutely the best part of my job. So if you're ready to break up with your diet tracker or you're looking for support with managing your weight, I invite you to check out what we do in the Wayless program and see if it feels like a good fit for you. More info at wayless.life. And we are kicking the next group off on January 1st. It'd be fun to have you with us.
Brock:
Alright. Thanks, everyone. This has been the Change Academy podcast with Monica Rineagle. Our show is produced by me, Brock Armstrong. You'll find links to everything Monica mentioned in today's episode in our show notes as well as on our website at change academy podcast.com, where you can also send us an email or leave us a voice mail.
Brock:
If you're finding this podcast helpful, we hope you'll subscribe or, even better, Give our show a rating or review in your favorite podcast app. Or best of all, share this episode with a friend or colleague you think would enjoy it. Now here's to the changes we choose.
