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Are you a passionate veterinarian seeking to elevate your practice and make a lasting impact in the field?
Welcome to "The Vet'Ed Podcast". Join Steven Hermann, Kale Flaspohler and Lindo Zwane - industry experts and thought leaders, as they delve into tailored strategies and nurturing relationships to empower privately owned veterinary practices.
Tune in the first and third Wednesday of the month to gain invaluable insights, tips, and inspiration to thrive in your independent clinic. Together, let's build a community dedicated to advancing veterinary care. Subscribe now and embark on a journey towards lasting success in your practice.
Are you ready? Ready. Well, hey. We're recording on Saint Patrick's Day. Happy Saint Patrick's Day.
Steven:I got my
Jessica:I wore my green.
Kale:Green shoes. I have a horseshoe.
Steven:Yeah. That count? Does that count?
Jessica:It may not. We won't pinch you.
Kale:Appreciate that.
Steven:Does Patrick have a special day? You know, you're you're Patrick. Is that special to him too today?
Jessica:I I mean, I think that it's his holiday.
Steven:It's a
Jessica:obviously, we're American, but he still has family in Ireland with very strong Irish background. So not really a drinker though. So I can't say it's a yeah.
Steven:Hard to be a drinker when chasing around three kids. Yeah. Yeah. And roofing. And roofing.
Steven:Yeah. Yeah. You don't wanna do that when you're on the roof for sure. Patrick being your husband and great guy. And so welcome to Vedip Podcast.
Steven:Morning, Kale. Welcome. Good morning. It's afternoon. Afternoon.
Steven:Afternoon.
Kale:Yeah. Yeah.
Steven:Yeah. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. Yeah. Hey, we're excited to have Doctor.
Steven:Jessica Stroup on here today, Howard County Veterinary Hospital. And I think that you've been on before, and what's interesting about today is that your new spot with AVMA delegate from Missouri, Yeah. Yeah. So we're excited to talk about that today. But hey, for those that are new to the program, we have a bio here.
Steven:You want me to read it?
Jessica:Oh, sure. Why not? Doctor.
Steven:Stroup is a Fayette native that graduated from the University of Missouri College of Veterinary Medicine in May 2012. She started at our, oh, I got this really wrong. She started practice as an associate veterinarian in June 2012 and became practice owner in January 2016. She was a 02/2005 Fayette High School grad and she completed her pre veterinary studies at the University of West Florida in Pensacola, where she ran cross country and track for the UWF Argonauts. Doctor.
Steven:Stroup married her high school sweetheart, Patrick, who we just talked about, in 02/2007. Their kids include their beloved dog, Harley, and their cat, Linus. It's great to have you on. You have your own practice. Mhmm.
Steven:Small and large animal mixed and yeah. Hey. We see, obviously, heck, you had this a few weeks ago what you're doing at 10:30 at night.
Jessica:Oh, yeah. Yeah. Pulling a calf. I think it was right. My temperature gauge on my truck was zero degrees.
Steven:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're messing around
Jessica:Yeah.
Steven:At all.
Jessica:Although, I feel like I'm pretty lucky compared to some of the farmers because, you know, I do my job usually pretty quickly, and I get in my warm truck. Mhmm. They usually have some work to do after I So I I still consider myself fortunate.
Steven:You came warmed up. You were already at jump out of the truck, do your job, and get back in and go. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah.
Steven:Well, you really enjoy that, I know. It's a wonderful thing. So what's going on in the veterinary world for you right now? What's exciting?
Jessica:Well, I'm really excited. I'm really excited, obviously. I got different things going on, whether it's, you know, my business, there's always improvements and changes to make in regards to that. It's part of why this profession is so much fun. There's always new things to learn, new skills to acquire.
Jessica:I'm excited about my new position with the AVMA, kind of branching out to being involved in something bigger than myself. I always get a lot of fulfillment out of that and contributing back to the profession, hopefully making good contributions to the profession. So I'm excited about that.
Steven:Yeah. Again, yeah, have you on today talk about you know, really dive into AVMA position coming up here. And, yeah, I mean, you're a mom, a wife, a business owner, and you have still have time to go, go do that too. Yeah. So yeah.
Jessica:I think you can tell by, I just don't know how to say no. But I try to limit my yeses to things that I really enjoy and fill my So makes it a lot easier.
Steven:So yeah, what got, so how'd you get excited about this? How did this opportunity come up to be a delegate to ABMA?
Jessica:Well, Doctor. Carol Ryan was the delegate for the ABMA and then acquired the District 7 Delegate. So AVMA has different districts that comprise multiple states. So she got the position of District delegate, district seven delegate, which includes Missouri and a number of other states. K.
Jessica:So her That's elected. Right? That's elected. Yes. And her so her delegate position came open.
Jessica:And I've always kind of, even since I was an early graduate, been sort of interested in leadership within the AVMA and those positions don't come up very often. So I saw it as a great opportunity and, luckily the executive board of the MVMA was nice enough to elect me to
Steven:the Awesome. So that's like to Doctor. Kara Ryan was like she had to go out and it's to AVMA members, You can vote on her position? Yes,
Jessica:yes. So she's actually is District 7 Delegate. She's a member of the executive board or board of directors of the AVMA. So that's a big deal to have someone in Missouri
Steven:It is.
Jessica:In that sort of position. And I find it fortunate that for her to be a friend and a colleague bounce ideas off of.
Steven:She cares. She cares. Absolutely. And so yeah, then the so the MBMA board elects the delegate. And so do you submit your name in?
Steven:Did they call you? Like, how do you get how did you get to that point?
Jessica:So there was an announcement. They send out emails to the entire MVMA membership. I was currently on the executive board as the West Central Delegate, which is our district delegate. So I heard about it that way, but they also send out an email to the entire MBMA membership letting them know the position was open. So, you know, just kind of submit my essay and application and it was voted on at the board meeting.
Steven:Cool. Cool. So now when was that vote?
Jessica:That was back in, I wanna say early October.
Steven:Okay.
Jessica:So I'm very much new to the position. Okay.
Steven:What's happened since October in this position?
Jessica:So I went to orientation in Schaumburg, Illinois. That's where the AVMA headquarters are just outside of The orientation was super helpful because the AVMA, you know, basically I'm a delegate to the House of Delegates, which I can't say that it works the exact same way as like the House of Representatives, but it's very much a governance governmental type structure on how those meetings are handled. So there's definitely a learning curve to it. So orientation was super helpful as far as kind of learning what that structure is. What are the different rules to the different positions?
Jessica:And then the different divisions of the AVMA learning a lot more about that. It really is very well oiled machine, would say. Even the divisions, it's amazing to see what you guys probably get a lot of reports from the economic division of the AVMA. They do a lot of really neat studies, The marketing division, they really do a lot of amazing stuff for the profession.
Steven:Yeah. They've got a new economics, person on board. Forgive me. I just met her a few weeks ago. I think Catherine McCulloch, I think is her name, but yeah.
Steven:Excited to get to work with her and see the it's important to know the economics of what's going on. It's a big spot. And you get some information, probably insight into that, being on your new spot.
Jessica:Yeah. So Yeah. The you guys probably read the BRCA study. Is that what they call the BRCA study?
Steven:The BRCA.
Jessica:Brachy.
Steven:Brachy. Yeah.
Jessica:Yeah. See.
Steven:Yeah. Well, not to go in the weeds on that. You know, I like it on the weeds. It's interesting that Cale and I, we had that six months ago, the podcast we did on the conflicting reports about the future of veterinary
Kale:medicine.
Steven:Yeah. And the person that was part of that spoke down at Vet Partners in Las Vegas. And then of course we talked about the AAVMC has a different projection.
Jessica:Yes.
Steven:And then VMG's kind of got their own projection. It was funny though that when the VMG economist was speaking, he goes, who knows if I'm right? He literally is just like, I don't know. I could be. I'm probably wrong.
Jessica:I mean, it's all projections.
Steven:It's all projections. But you gotta look at all of them. And it's good to see differing numbers because it keeps it real, I guess, Yeah. Keep it keep it real. So Yeah.
Steven:What's the what's the NVMA gonna as you're elected by the board, what's their expectations of you in this position?
Jessica:So my role is basically to I I represent AVMA members from the state of Missouri. Okay. So obviously, I I'm in a position where I vote my conscience, but I have to keep in mind that I'm not representing myself. I'm representing veterinarians from the state of Missouri. And I'm representing to some degree, the board of the NVMA as well.
Jessica:So
Steven:Okay. So there's so if the NVMA says, hey, we like voice on these things. It's like that's what you need to represent or the voice of of that or
Jessica:You know, the state is different. The NVMA really you know, there are states where ahead of a house of delegates meeting, there's a number of resolutions that are voted on every house of delegates meeting and you get emailed those resolutions ahead of time. So the resolutions are what dictate AVMA policy, which isn't necessarily law, but it really does. A lot of AVMA's policies obviously set the standards for most of the profession. So there are states where they'll go through your whole resolution list and sort of tell their delegates, you vote this way on this, you vote that way on that.
Jessica:Missouri really isn't that way. They give you a lot of freedom as far as kind of voting the way you feel like you should vote. I have the benefit of Doctor. Chuck Berry being the alternate delegate who has a lot of experience within the AVMA as well. So I've been able able to get a lot of guidance from him as far as how things work Good.
Jessica:As well.
Steven:He's good. He's funny. I laugh because, know, how how he ties in the Chuck Berry part. For people that don't know Chuck Berry talks about the music man and all that kind of stuff. The music guy Chuck Berry's ever done that to you?
Steven:No. The artist Chuck Berry? No. Oh yeah, he must have dropped that. He used to do that all the time.
Steven:Chuck Berry's a
Jessica:He's never heard of the artist Chuck Berry.
Steven:I haven't even of. He looked at me and said, was I'm old enough to know that, and you're not. Well, I feel young at
Jessica:least now.
Steven:Yeah. That's good. What are
Kale:what are the term limits for the for the position?
Jessica:So testing my orientation, I it's either two or three years. I can't remember off the top of my head. Now, I'm currently delegate, I can rotate down to alternate delegate. Doctor. Chuck Berry and I can switch positions essentially.
Jessica:I don't know how many times you can do that before your term limit is up, but my term as delegate is either two or three years.
Steven:Hope it's three because it seems like the first year you just figure everything out. Yeah, Yeah. Second year kinda like, kinda know what I'm doing. Third year like Mhmm. I know what to do.
Steven:Yeah. You know?
Jessica:Yeah. I I it's nice to have a little longer terms for a position like this where there's a bit of a learning curve at the beginning for sure. Yeah.
Steven:Absolutely. Well, as you so we asked you earlier and you said that you you are representing the AVMA members in Missouri. Mhmm. So you gotta keep that in mind when voting, but also you've got obviously, you've got your own ideas and thoughts that what's important to you?
Jessica:So, know, obviously there's there's different legislative areas and advocacy work. AVMA does a ton of that. Whether it's from issues with mid level practitioner, which I'm sure you've heard a lot about.
Steven:A little bit out of Colorado. Yeah. Yeah.
Jessica:I really love what the AVMA does as far as diversity, equity, and inclusivity.
Steven:Mhmm.
Jessica:That's an interest of mine. We are the the least diverse of all the medical professions. So I think it's a great area of focus. A lot of legislative issues, interest me quite a bit. I'm really excited, that the summer meeting this year is going to be held in Washington DC.
Jessica:So they're gonna correlate the legislative flying in with that. So I'll actually get the opportunity to go to The Hill and discuss some of the advocacy work and legislative issues that the AVMA is working on.
Steven:That's exciting. Are you gonna have a chance to be in front of a small committee? Do you know yet?
Jessica:I'm not sure yet.
Steven:Okay. That'd be cool. If you get a chance to If they get the chance to do that where you can be in front of a committee and you have a chance to talk. So it's not the one you see on TV in the big room, right? For the big committees, they have the subcommittees.
Steven:Yeah. And a lot of times that's nice because subcommittees, you get a chance to speak your experience.
Kale:Mhmm.
Steven:And so I've had experience of doing that back in 2013 for the grocery industry, and it was unique. It was it was a lot of fun.
Jessica:Yeah.
Steven:So
Jessica:They say the biggest thing in in speaking with the politicians is if you can think of personal stories that correlate to the legislation that you're discussing. That's what really hits home in a lot of these discussions.
Steven:Is there any legislation you know of that at top of your mind right now yet that's like you all need to talk about, be advocating for?
Jessica:As far as at the national level, there's gonna be, I think, obviously, the mid level practitioner is somewhat more of a individual state issue. But the AVMAs obviously did a lot of advocacy work in Colorado when, with, I believe it was proposition 129, for their mid level practitioner. And that's something that's also being discussed on the national level. The Xylazine bill is a big one that's being discussed. Obviously, there's issues with Xylazine being an anesthetic that, in particular large animal veterinarians still use a lot of, but it's also being used a lot in recreational drugs.
Jessica:So it's become an issue. I think the biggest goal is to keep that drug not controlled, but also give a little more teeth to punishments when they find that people are diverting that drug for other purposes.
Steven:Okay, yeah, drug diversion can be a big deal for sure. So it's not a controlled substance?
Jessica:It's not, no.
Steven:Okay, okay. It's interesting that yeah, totally different on how that comes in and out for sure.
Jessica:Yeah, now I mean, I think most veterinarians are pretty cautious about how they use it. You know, I'm not gonna sell an entire bottle of of Xylazine to a farmer. And I'm even the individual doses I do sell, I'm gonna be pretty selective who I give that to and what they're using it for. But obviously there's abuse in every system. So definitely something to keep in mind with the ongoing issues that are happening.
Steven:In the mid level practitioner, the vet partners, we had AVMA there and the Dumb Friends League who was the one that was promoting that. And I found that everybody wanted to see veterinary care, access to veterinary care, right? You know, for the people that, affordability too. It's all those things that get discussed. It feels like ABMA and Dun and Frimsley want the same thing, but they're trying to go about it like differently and they can't find this like this common ground.
Steven:Is that what Yeah. You see out there on this that
Jessica:Well, I I think the biggest issue especially in Colorado where that proposition did end up passing, but it was by a relatively narrow margin. The advocacy work that the ABMA did, did a lot as far as public education. But the real issue with that particular program that was being promoted by Colorado State was that this is a
Steven:The State of Colorado or Colorado State University?
Jessica:Colorado State University
Steven:And Dumb Friendsly Road.
Jessica:Wanting to start a program.
Steven:I'm sorry. Just wanted I just wanted the
Jessica:VPA. Okay. The ballot initiative was for the state of Colorado. That's part of how this came about was Colorado State University Mhmm. Wanting to develop this program.
Steven:Okay.
Jessica:But the biggest issue is this is mostly a two year master's level program that's mostly online, And these VPAs would be allowed to perform surgery on animals. So that's a big problem in my mind to be in a mostly online two year course to jump to being able to perform surgery. And you know the biggest proponents of the mid level practitioner are corporate entities.
Steven:Okay.
Jessica:You know they see it as a great opportunity to lower their wages while getting a professional that can perform most of the duties a veterinarian can. Okay. And they're not as concerned about outcomes. Maybe I shouldn't say that, but. Well,
Steven:yeah, I mean I understand. Yeah, it's a tough one. Yeah, I know what you're Well, think the thing is that as you as a prior practice owner, you as the owner and the practitioner have to look everybody in their eyes, right? And that makes it a lot more serious, lot more, have a lot more feel invested into this individual patient. So I think that's, did I say that right?
Kale:I think so.
Steven:Okay, I'm trying to say, I felt like I murdered that, but yeah. No, it's a hot topic. What's interesting, took also, it's like, let's say that someone goes to Colorado, they're from Missouri. They go to Colorado and they get this education, and they come back to Missouri. There's there's useless.
Steven:Mhmm. So it's it would only work there. Now do you understand it, that still the veterinary board has a final say on how this happens? Or is
Jessica:that right? Yes, the veterinary board has a final say. And the other thing to factor in is that the veterinarian, the liability still lies on the veterinarian for the VPAs that are working underneath it.
Steven:That was a topic of concern from an insurance company that said, how how do you ensure this liability? And the veterinarians, yeah, the liability is still on me. Yeah. As with the veterinary technician, Everything. And your practice is on
Jessica:you, so. I think a big issue is, and you're probably aware of is, we're still not utilizing our registered veterinary technicians to the full extent that we could be utilizing.
Steven:Correct.
Jessica:So, you know, in my mind, that's a better use of our resources and our time. If we're wanting to become more efficient is utilizing our technicians. There's already an infrastructure and programs and testing there for that in every state. So.
Steven:Well, the other thing too, seemed like you take this veterinary technician, right? And then he calls first on a mid level. So what are they, are they low level now? Yeah. That was also the point it gets hit, you're like, I'm a veterinary technician, I have my degree, right?
Steven:Got my training, and now I'm I'm so I'm low level? Yeah. Now? So it's also like the the branding of it's tough. Well, I think you said, like, on a national standpoint.
Steven:I mean, people like to talk about control of the state, you know, on these things, but is there anything that can be done on the national level that AVMA is talking about?
Jessica:Well, I think AVMA at this point, you know, AVMA is our national organization. So essentially on the national level, they're just what they're just watching what's happening in each individual state. As far as I know, there's nothing else coming up in any other state, but I'm sure down the pipeline, we're gonna be looking at this in more states as well.
Steven:Yeah. Again, I think the biggest part of this though is that even though it passed, nothing can happen unless the state veterinary board approves of it. Is that right?
Jessica:That's my understanding or I'm honestly not sure of the logistics in Colorado, if who's gonna be governing them, if it's going to be the state veterinary board, or if it's gonna be a different board. That's
Steven:Lot of unknowns. Yeah. It's long, even though it passed, there's still a lot of unknowns. It's like not happening yet.
Jessica:And I'm not even sure if they really have a testing certification program established for this VPA either. So lots of infrastructure needed for that to happen in my mind.
Steven:Yeah. So at the end of the still, thing is everybody's trying to help with access to veterinary care. Mhmm. But that we gotta find out a way to bridge that chasm that's that's between, like, these two groups. They were they started out pretty cordial, then it it got kinda heated as it went along.
Steven:It really did between the two of them. So okay.
Jessica:I mean, there's issues with that in terms of expanding access to veterinary care on the large animal side as well. Farm Bureau actually just changed, made a policy statement that they wanted a certified veterinary assistant to be able to, as far as the large animal side, go out and perform castrations, pregnancy exams, vaccinations. You know, a lot of these things are the bread and butter for a lot of rural veterinarians. Now, as of now, this is just them stating in their policy that they support that. But I have to think that it's them bringing this to the legislative level is probably in the future as well.
Steven:Well, Colorado has been a testing ground too, say. Lot of times, they'll find a state where they think you can pass and test it out there. So, yeah, we'll we'll see where that gets to next. You mentioned the Farm Bill as as something of it. What's going on with Farm Bill?
Steven:Do you know that
Jessica:I I need to educate myself a little more on that. I think they're they update the Farm Bill. I forget how often they do that. It's it's relatively frequently.
Steven:I looked it up a half hour ago as I was prepping, but they said it passed at the end of the year Mhmm. Extension till August of Mhmm. August of this year. So it's coming up. Yeah.
Steven:I'm sure
Jessica:they're So there's various areas of the farm bill that the AVMA looks at. I had a a running list of all those things. And, of course, now it my memory leaves me as far
Steven:as Oh, you're good. You're good.
Jessica:But Yeah. You know you know, vaccine, you know, biologics, you know, all those different areas of the farm bill that the AVMA has input on. Obviously, between now and when I'm going to the hill in July, I plan on educating myself a little more
Steven:on that. Absolutely. But
Jessica:as far as specifics, there is an area of the farm bill that I remember offhand the AVMA has been very supportive of the Healthy Dog Act,
Steven:which
Jessica:has made some changes as far as importation of animals into The US. So making sure that they're at least six months old.
Steven:And
Jessica:there was another requirement as well. But a lot of different areas of the farm bill that the ABMA has eyes on.
Steven:I don't blame you for not knowing
Kale:it either. A pretty major piece of piece of legislation out there to familiarize yourself with.
Steven:Yeah. What about it's interesting. Have all these pet food companies. Mhmm. There's not like any is there USDA involved in that side at all?
Steven:Can pet food just, do you know, can pet food just get sold?
Jessica:So pet food is more related by, of course there's the AFCO standards that pet food is supposed to make. So that's basically saying that it meets a certain level of nutritional standards. And then beyond that, I'm pretty sure pet food is somewhat regulated by the USDA, but other areas as well.
Steven:Yeah, it's gonna be interesting to see how that all goes because there's so many like, you know, from Preena, right? Big the big, obviously, company to all the ones that come up and talk about this benefit for this kind of food versus this And it's kinda like, is there, isn't there? We don't.
Jessica:Yeah. And there's, when it comes to pet food, there's a lot of companies that invest most of their profits in marketing, but they don't necessarily have registered you know, veterinary nutritionists
Steven:that are
Jessica:working for them. They're not doing feeding trials, they're not doing safety studies. And, you know, personally in my patients, run into nutritional issues because they're not doing the necessary testing they're supposed to. They may meet the AFCO standards, but my understanding with AFCO standards is it's kind of like making a D to pass the class. So yeah, there's issues with that where the companies are really good at marketing and they do a good job at selling food, but their mineral contents are not balanced the way they're supposed to that lead to problems.
Jessica:Kidney problems. Safety issues.
Steven:Yeah, okay. It's funny thinking about the food though. What was it? Spencer and I were watching, or maybe it's Tripp, the food that made America. You've it on History Channel ever?
Steven:At Milk Bone. Oh, interesting. At Milk Bone, it was a baker in New York that when supermarkets started having bakers inside their own companies there, the bakers were like, crap, I'm gonna go out of business here. And the guy started making Milk Bones. And that's the modern day company milk bone came out of a baker in New York City.
Steven:Man.
Kale:Now the the food thing's an interesting thing. We had a dog it was years ago. I forget the name of
Steven:the food company, but they had a recall on their food and it
Kale:was the brand that we had
Steven:had fed our dog and it ended up passing away from from organ failure. I don't remember what it was. But I don't know why the name's escaping me.
Kale:But anyway, yeah, it's an important it's an important thing.
Steven:Big deal.
Jessica:Yeah. And people are I think trends in animal nutrition tend to follow trends on the human side as well. And in a way it's a good thing. People are looking to be eating less and less processed food. So they're looking for that for their pets as well.
Jessica:So they're looking for, they don't necessarily want the dry kibble that's been, you know, baked at high temperatures. They're wanting unprocessed fresh food. But how do you balance that with safety and something that's balanced? And I'm not sure if the common companies that veterinarians are recommending, whether they be Hill's, Purina Pro Plan, or Canon, they really haven't come out with a fresh unprocessed version, I would say. So I mean, it'd be great if they did.
Jessica:Because you can trust the safety and the nutrition from the dry kibbles that they have. But it seems like that's what most clients are looking for. There's also a lot of people feeding raw, which has become an issue with avian influenza. Yeah. Cats are very susceptible to that.
Jessica:And there's been some cases of cats developing avian influenza as a result of raw diets.
Steven:Yeah. Lauren and I went home for lunch. On the way back over here, the Apple news popped up with we can't survive a bird flu pandemic. Yeah. Great.
Steven:Great. So feed your dog dry dog food. Try to avoid that pandemic. So Yeah. Know, my my dogs are on Perennapro plan that was recommended to us.
Jessica:It's a great food.
Steven:Yeah, they're fine, they're healthy. Yeah. They're happy, so. But like you said, people are wanting, it's the same thing though, are wanting healthy animals, right? And so it's not like you're knocking somebody, It's like, hey, here's what we know about the food.
Steven:You would think the healthy, not processed whatever food for animals, but it could be raw, it could be all those things that Yeah. Okay. That's, yeah, it's a big deal.
Kale:Yeah. So, know, if we're sitting at the end of your term,
Steven:what has to have happened for that to make you feel really happy like you did what you came to accomplish?
Jessica:Obviously, I hope to have contributed in a positive way. I don't really know where things are gonna lead me because there's so many variabilities as far as issues that are gonna pop up in our profession, as far as what to advocate for. I do think DEI is a passion of mine and I hope to, even on a personal level, utilize some of AVMA's resources as far as not only training my staff, but really focus on educating younger children, especially in the K through four age groups. In the past, a lot of outreach has really been focused on high school and pre vet students. But they found that it's there's actually a lot more progress to be made in focusing on the younger elementary kids as far as exposing them to the profession and the different opportunities in our profession.
Steven:Yeah, that's it's interesting. We're doing a book study here doing Carol Dweck's Growth Mindset. And you know, in there it talks about, you know, she said she used to be really good at math and she had someone tell her she wasn't and quit doing math. So it's like, yeah, the earlier you get the kids and find out what their passion is, it's a better chance of, especially in home, I think that's good for even the local communities, Getting a veterinarian back to your local community because that's one of the hardest things, right? Isn't a small community finding veterinarians.
Steven:Love that.
Kale:Go ahead. Sorry.
Jessica:Just a couple of weeks ago, went to my, the preschool class at our elementary school, brought a lamb with me. Awesome. They got to practice listening with a stethoscope. It's really fun to share my passion with kids that age. And not all kids are exposed to the veterinary profession.
Jessica:I mean, really for the most part, you either have to have a pet that regularly sees a veterinarian or live on a farm. And not all kids are exposed to it. So I think it's great to kind of expand and maybe there's lots of untapped talent out there. So if we can expose more people to it, get more people involved, that's great.
Steven:That's awesome. Love that.
Kale:How often do you go to various schools? Do you do that a lot or?
Jessica:I can't say a lot, maybe once a year. Okay. Hopefully, once or twice a year, I make a visit to our to our local school.
Kale:Cool. Cool. It's such a great point though. Like, kids at that age
Steven:are like impressionable. And so you
Kale:might have inspired somebody the other day to be a veterinarian and you wouldn't even know.
Jessica:Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Kale:Yeah. It's cool.
Steven:Oh, I I I tell you what, the the yeah. At that at that age, the studies they do, you gotta get them young because something's gonna change. But if you get them young, get the passion going, you never know where they're gonna get to. So that's wonderful. What more, what more has gotta happen at the Oh, let me ask you, I think is important to understand the advocacy ABMA does and MBMA does, right?
Steven:People are like, why should we have an association? Speak to that. Why should people support the ABMA and the MVMA?
Jessica:Well, I have to give a shout out to MVMA, our legislative committee, Doctor. Cliff Miller does such a fantastic job at staying up to date on those things, making regular trips to Jefferson City. I think it's really on another level even compared to other states. Really does a good job at keeping members of the association informed as to what are going on and advocating for veterinarians across the state. And really the AVMA puts a lot of effort into that as well.
Jessica:I don't know exactly how much they spent on the mid level practitioner issue in Colorado, but I know it was pretty significant. And I think the advocacy work that they do for us, it doesn't just benefit AVMA members, it benefits all veterinarians, but it's definitely worth the dues that you pay for that organization.
Steven:I can't agree more. It's interesting, it's like how do you get that word out, right, to more and more people get excited, get involved like you are, because there's people that say you don't have the time. Sometimes question of not a time thing, it's like a need for the association.
Jessica:And I think it's easy for people to get maybe discouraged as early practitioners, just not knowing what the process is. I'm telling you, it's harder and harder even at our district meetings, especially post COVID. Most of the veterinarians in those participating in those district meetings are retired and we really need to get more younger veterinarians involved. But it's a challenge for sure. I don't know if I think there's a lot of issues there whether they be generational, know, lot of younger associates may have a harder time, you know, taking off of work to do these sorts of things.
Jessica:I was very fortunate that Doctor. Vroman was always very supportive of me and encouraging me to be involved with the MVMA at the state level, but not everyone has that. And then of course you're in the era of starting families and different things like that. But we do really need more young people involved because that's how we make progress.
Steven:Yeah, absolutely. Is that something you can do in your role to help like get that Is there a program for that the AVMA has?
Jessica:They do have an emerging leader program. So every year at the Veterinary Leadership Convention, I actually attended about ten years ago as an emerging leader. So your state organization can pays for your trip there. And I think there's every year there's two emerging leaders that can go from each state.
Steven:Okay.
Jessica:And you attend all sorts of lectures on, leadership development, how the ABMA works. So there's definitely programs in place there to encourage that.
Steven:Good. It's good to hear. Okay, want more.
Kale:I I'm just excited that we've got somebody like from a very rural community that sees both large and small animals and everything that's going to advocate for the profession. So I think it's awesome.
Jessica:Yeah. Thank you.
Steven:It sounds like you're gonna be well prepared. I mean Yeah.
Jessica:I'm gonna try. Although I I didn't know the answers to a lot of your all's questions so far.
Steven:I think you answered everything great. You know, you did well, the best thing is I, you know, I think the open mind you have Mhmm. And say, hey, I don't know if I know enough about that, so let me get back to you. Let me learn about that and come back to you instead of just saying, making something up. I think that's great.
Jessica:Well, think the beautiful thing about this profession is there's a large diversity of experiences and there's lots of different fields people can go into. The profession that my bosses entered in the 1960s and they experienced is vastly different from what it is to now. And even from when I graduated twelve years ago, things have changed significantly. So keeping all of those perspectives and experiences in mind while also keeping my own core values in mind too.
Steven:Yeah, I think that's an important part is to keep your own core values there respecting others. Right? And and how do you how do you bridge bridge the gaps Yeah. That are out there of of understanding. So well, what more would you like to add today that you think is important that we missed out on?
Jessica:That's a good question. Yeah.
Steven:You know, it's that it's that it's that when you're driving back on, wish I would have said that. So imagine you're in the car. You're on the way back. It's a beautiful day. You're finishing your Lakota coffee.
Steven:Shout out to I
Jessica:mean, I go back to the discussion. I participated in a women in Vet Med panel at the NVMe convention back in January, there was a lot of great discussion there. One of the current associate deans even mentioned that the current classes of the vet school are about 98% white female from suburbia. And as a white female, I find that concerning. Not to say there's anything wrong with that, but again, diversity is an issue in our profession and part of that discussion is how do we get more men involved in the profession?
Jessica:Yeah. I don't think any of us women ever wanted the profession to be entirely women. We all just wanted to have the same opportunities as men have. So, you know, that's an important part of the There's a lot of really great discussion involving that. How do we get more men in the profession?
Jessica:How do we outreach to other people to get all that untapped talent that we're not reaching.
Steven:I think I always joke about, women are smarter than men so it's obvious there's more women passing the test, getting better grades.
Jessica:Well there was one guy in the discussion that says well maybe you should just let guys know that the vet school's 98% female. They're like, take a way to get there.
Steven:Get your eyes open. Find your next step.
Jessica:I mean, I will say there were a number of guys in the school that were batting way above their average due to the the disparity.
Steven:They looked a lot better than they were because of the group they were in. Is that the guys?
Jessica:Well, when there's only 10 of you.
Steven:They all look really good.
Kale:When the options go down, it it becomes a lot easier.
Steven:That's a branding, That marketing right there. Watch the enrollment go the other That's
Jessica:agency, I should get a check for that anyway.
Steven:That's right, that's right. When you say diversity, mean, you're really looking at, probably the way you're saying is even different than anyone's even thinking when you bring that up.
Jessica:Yeah. I mean, it's it obviously it's about it's about race, but everyone always thinks of diversity as just being about race. It's not just about that. It's about gender. It's about different socioeconomic classes.
Jessica:You know, there's I think the veterinary schools are really doing a great job at looking at their selection process and how that can be discriminatory. You know, for instance, a lot of veterinary schools will look at how many credit hours a student takes per semester. And obviously the students taking more credit hours per semester, higher GPAs are the ones that are going to be selected. In that process, you might be eliminating the student that's working two jobs and going to school, and that person may be a great candidate. And with the current challenges we have with mental health in the profession, need those people with grit that know how to work hard.
Jessica:So I think a lot of great candidates are being overlooked by the selection process as well. But I think they're making improvements and looking at that more and more.
Steven:Good, that's good to hear. Think the problem is, the question is, you said suburbia, right? So are those schools there getting their students access to higher level education at a younger age versus rural area that doesn't have as much opportunity around to have those? Mean, I think kids come out of Columbia have, my son went riding a calc three in college, his freshman semester. It took me three semesters to get to calc three when I went to MU.
Steven:So there's things like that that make a difference with you're already behind coming in.
Jessica:Yeah. And I would say, you know, practice in the small town that I was from. I would say, you know, compared to others in my class, I was probably a little, obviously a bit lower on the socioeconomic pool than most people were. Yeah. Again, I would say even back then it was mostly upper middle class suburbia.
Jessica:And yeah, it's coming from a rural area. You might not get as good of resources as far as getting better education, college credit courses, access to different resources as far as the standardized tests. Makes it more challenging for sure.
Steven:And I'd say they're amazing educators from know, probably the best science teacher ever, math teacher ever, but there's the courses didn't go beyond a certain level. It's not an Oktani educator. It's just how do you get access to those kinds of things for that. And so that's a big answer. Think what you're gonna answer, what you like to answer too is for all, it's like a bigger picture too, right, of education and for all.
Steven:That's awesome. Yeah. So that was your driving home, you remembered what you wanted to talk about there on that side. Yeah.
Jessica:Yeah, and I'm drawing a blank on the program, but it's not the AVMA, there's another program out there that is a training program. I actually completed part of it, not the entire thing. On if you're wanting to go into schools and educate K-five. It's under the lens of diversity, equity and inclusivity, but it helps provide materials and different things for going to classes and educating them on the profession. So there's lots of great resources out And I think, you know, my next step is gonna be doing more and more of that as far as contributing to the profession and educating kids in the community.
Steven:Well, that's awesome. Thank you for the contributing. I mean, thank you for going above and beyond. I think you really are doing above and beyond what anyone would could ask of you, and your voice is important.
Jessica:Oh, thank you.
Steven:And we're excited to have you up there. Excited to have you on today on the VETTER podcast, and we look forward to I'll see you in DC. So I'm gonna be in DC. I got VET partners in the AVMA. I'm gonna be speaking up there at the AVMA.
Steven:Lauren is too. So Awesome. So we'll see you in DC, and then we get back from DC, we should sit back down and give a report on what happened in DC and what's going on. That'll
Jessica:be Just study the farm bill between now and then.
Steven:Just one of the many to check out.
Jessica:But that's what's great about the profession, always learning new things.
Steven:Yeah. It'll make you better in what you do in your business and for your community and everything too.
Jessica:So
Steven:that's wonderful. Well well, thank you so much, Gail.
Jessica:Yeah. Thank you very
Kale:much for for coming and sharing today.
Steven:Yeah.
Jessica:Yeah. Thanks for having me.
Steven:Till next time.
Jessica:Yeah.