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Manhood often feels like navigating through uncharted territory, but you don't have to walk alone. Join us as we guide a conversation about how to live intentionally so that we can join God in reclaiming the masculine restorative presence he designed us to live out. Laugh, cry, and wonder with us as we explore the ins and outs of manhood together.
Is Your Penis Securely Attached with Corey Allan - Part 1
00:00
Hey guys, welcome back to the podcast. It is good to be back with you. Jesse, welcome back. Thanks ma'am. Good to be here. Excited for what we've got on the docket today. Yeah. You guys, today, we have a special guest with us. His name is Corey Allen, and I'm just super excited for the conversation we are about to have. So Corey, welcome to the podcast. Hi, thanks for having me. This, this should be a lot of fun. Yeah. Well, Corey, let's start with just a brief introduction of kind of who you are and what you do.
00:29
which then sets us up for the conversation we're about to have. Okay. Well, so professionally speaking, I'm a marriage, family therapists, PhD in family therapy, and then have a private practice that's now virtual. So I work with people from all over the country in the world. And then I also am a podcaster. I've been the host of sexy marriage radio for it's been going for 12 years now. Wow. Life is my cohost for the last four and a half. And prior to I had some other professionals that helped and we get a lot of guests as well, but.
00:59
our target is just trying to help married couples experience all that they can in marriage and in sex and have some resources and books and variety of different courses and things that have created over the years as well at smr.fm so that's that's my home you find me pretty easy awesome yes well and we'll be sure to throw that into the show notes for anybody listening that they can find you so sexy marriage radio is uh is a sexy title
01:28
It's kind of dropped into the infest. Yeah. Well, that's kind of the idea. I think we have an element of life as humans in the way we're wired and designed by God, that there's a whole aspect that has been dismissed in some ways or definitely skewed by culture in a lot of ways, which is our sex lives and our sexuality. That is a God-designed part of us. So I think it's important to...
01:58
look at things through a little bit of a better lens and then figure out what we do with that because we never try to take a Moral compass for people but we try to help frame ways to look at things So that you can make better decisions that are in line with character and integrity Which is kind of like what you guys are talking about trying to do with being forged. That's that's character development at its finest Yeah, well, so with that is kind of our springboard would love to here. We are talking about
02:27
men being forged. And, and, and one of the phrases that we use here, Corey is, is called the, the forges where restorative men are forged. And so restoration project is all about inviting men to both discover and then offer their restorative presence to the world. And so here, here, we're talking about men as, and you, I just love how you said that men as
02:57
made, created uniquely in our sexuality to be forged in a God honoring God reflecting kind of way. And so not everybody who's listening to the podcast is married. So I'd like to start really our conversation with you about like, how do you see men understanding our masculinity or maleness, our sexuality, even kind of as men are becoming, as we are growing into the
03:26
the young men, the adult men that we are? Well, I think, I mean, first and foremost, our identities just on the whole start from something outside of ourselves. I think that's the way human beings were. You know, our identity was intended to be sought and found in union with God. And of course, we screw it up because that's what people do, because we have choices and that's what gives us freedom and love.
03:54
But there's an element of, as boys, I have a 16 year old, so I'll speak to him also, in a sense, with this conversation. But as boys, a lot of our introduction to sex and sexuality is coming from somewhere, and it's rarely mom and dad or the church or scriptures or frankly, because there's not a whole lot of really defined scriptural, hey, give me book chapter verse on what does it mean to be masculine and sexual. I mean, it's just.
04:24
That stuff is just not written cleanly out like that. Wouldn't that be nice? I wish it was. I don't know though. I think that takes the nuance of what each person actually is out of the equation. Cause I think there's such a vast array of power among the uniqueness of people. Cause we get caught in between these pressures, if you will. And this is where the forging in my mind, I refer to it as a crucible. Marriage is a crucible. Relationships are a crucible. And we get.
04:53
caught in this dilemma of I want to be a part of a group, but I want to be my own person. And I think men are that way. Locker rooms come to mind, right? Of just when you're growing up and you're in locker rooms, boy, it's bravado after bravado after bravado most of the time. And then you start to realize, but do these guys even really know what they're talking about? Or they have no clue.
05:21
what happens, right? I mean, if they actually had a naked woman walk in, they might run and hide, rather than that bravado, like, oh, I know exactly what I would do. And I know you have no clue, because even as a man that's been married for 30 years, there's times where I get naked with my wife, and I'm like, I got no clue what I'm doing with this anxiety I feel, and excitement I feel, right? Because it's just, there's a discomfort we have with aspects of our life, and so.
05:49
Society and culture has largely taught our sexuality is bad. It's dangerous and it absolutely can be. Cory, would you say, so just mention real quick, like you said, there's nervousness that we have. Do you think that comes from something inside of us? Do you think that's also taught from society? Where does the uncomfortableness? I think it's both. I think that there's, anytime I get a, anytime I'm presented something that I don't understand, which
06:18
frankly is the other gender. And I would be saying this if I was talking to women too, right? Because men are framed as very simplistic, but as you guys know in our community is we're not, we're not that simplistic. We put on a good front like I am, but we're not. And so I think there's a natural anxiety that comes from things that are unknown and uncertain. But then I think that gets magnified
06:48
of you should know exactly what you should what you're doing. You should know exactly how to handle this. You should be in charge. You should be. But then that that leaves out the guy that's like, I'm not a dominant person. I'm more of a gentle soul. I'm more of a team player. I'm more of a, you know, so it frames that. This is why I love frameworks, because it frames how we end up who we are. And then if I can look at things differently, now I can recognize
07:17
The goal becomes how do I tolerate and challenge the nervousness and anxiety better to then get in line with who do I see as I am made? What is it that's really about me? Not what the world thinks I should be, but who I am in the situations of my life. And I think that's where we start to see a thread of consistency that then I can challenge and grow and that's my growing process. That's my developing. That's my art of becoming.
07:47
if you will. So Corey, I appreciate what you said just a second ago about not wanting to take the the nuance out of who we are. And I feel like there's this this really needed affirmation of mysterious and you know, not not diluting it to an equation, which I think is so wise. But when you I also appreciate the the language around hey, how can we frame this understanding of sexuality
08:15
turn it into a math proof, but like, can we be willing to put some framing and some language and some understanding around it in a way that maybe takes some of the challenge maybe away from it, but still allows that mystery to be held? Like, yeah, just speak a little bit more to what some of that framing around the understanding of our sexuality could look like or could be helpful as you think about us engaging this.
08:45
is just, I mean, the three of us are, we're beyond the young man syndrome, just from looking at all of us on the screens here, right? We have life under our belt. So our bodies operate differently now than they would have when we were 16, 18, 21, 25, right? But what's interesting to me is if you look at the uniqueness of the system of male, female, you know, they, the
09:10
science and research shows male men hit their prime quote unquote early 20s, mid 20s, right? That's where they're the most virile, if you will. Their hormones are the highest capacity ability. You can go forever, whatever it might mean, right? That's then well, a woman hits her prime, what late thirties, early forties. So you talk about a recipe for conflict.
09:38
If you think about it, just sexually speaking, just biologically sexually speaking, because most women that are 40 have had a lot of life happen. They've likely produced some life as in had children and recognized what the complexities of the depth of life really is. They won't tolerate the immaturity of a 20 year old when it comes to being in bed. They don't want to be in bed with a boy. Right?
10:04
Yeah, I mean one of the one of my professors would always talk about or one of the guys that I trained under would always talk about Yeah, you might could get a wreck like a diving board instantly But what's that really a erection really attached to that's who I want to make love with Mmm, not just an erect penis So there's a there's a process that happens then that our sexuality actually exposes my needs the areas I need to grow and develop the most because when I'm
10:35
maybe physically less capable, there's actually more of me that is capable. If that makes any sense at all, what we're describing, right? Because I realized this isn't just about intercourse. This is about a coming together of soul and emotion and mind and body, which doesn't is not contingent on an erect penis and a vagina. There's so many things we can do
11:05
and life sustaining in a lot of ways. And that's why I just love this trajectory of it's a chronological framework to look at. We are always in the process of becoming because as soon as I figure something out, it changes. Right? It's like, oh, I got you, baby. Oh, wait, no, I don't know what's going on. Okay. I get a chance to grow and evolve.
11:32
and reconnect and establish. I mean, we use the phraseology of in married life, a great sex life is defined by two people that recover well, period. Because things don't always work or I've been prone to get a hamstring cramp or hip hurts or we ate too much food. And it's like, okay, wait, let's stop. Yeah. Let's reconnect.
12:02
And let's let's go a different way. And that's actually a fantastic follow the connection moment. It's not about a script. Yeah. I love that, Corey, and I love just where you took us, because the idea of us as men and I think women, too, but us as men being forged in our sexuality doesn't have to do with our parts. It has to do with the inner being of our identity and who we are.
12:31
It is, you know, just like you said, in the twenties or whatever, there are certain parts that work ways in different than they do in your forties. And yet the work of your soul, the forging of your being in as a sexual being is continuing, even though it starts, you know, may start there in your teens and twenties and continue to grow. Yeah. I think, I think there's an element of what, if you look at the deeper parts of what's happening during sex, what happens, I mean, normal everyday people will have problems.
13:02
period. Every single one of us, anybody that listens to this either has, is, or will have problems with their sex life. It is just going to happen. It's just a normal thing. So, but the deeper parts of this also is what you're describing of the connecting of our souls. We have sex up to the level of anxiety we can tolerate.
13:27
Okay, let me let that sit for a moment. Because this is where scripts come into play. Because we think of this as, I'll just get the job done, which normally means an orgasm for one or both is kind of the goal. And it could be a you go, I go, or you go, I go, we go. I mean, there's a lot of ways people do this because it's all a language. But what happens is a spouse knows you or your wife will know
13:55
if you're really showing up or you're just going through the motions. And so sometimes when I'm just going through the motions, I'm actually hoping my wife's not paying attention. But in reality, she likely is, and she's either OK with it or she's now disconnected because she's tracking me focusing on things other than us. And so if I'm paying attention, I recognize.
14:21
why sometimes sex becomes so troublesome is because we're not actually connecting. We're not actually showing up. I'm not actually present fully in this moment. I'm just there physically. And that could be a case of what's happening and that's why sometimes that will only satisfy for so long and then one party is going to eventually say, enough of this already. Right. I want, I would like to actually have sex with my spouse.
14:47
Not not masturbate with you present. I mean, I realize it's a little graphic, but that's kind of true. Yeah Yeah, wow. Okay. So yo go Jesse like no, sorry I mean and you have your PhD in this so I mean we we could Go real in-depth in here. But and again, I don't want to make it a formula But but it's such a good invitation that you bring right of like can there be a level of an awareness and attunement and connection?
15:16
that sex is then an overflow from, like, can you just give some more understanding of that? And again, this is a deep waters that we're in, and yet, I feel like what you're saying is so important. Well, let me, okay, I get what you're saying here, Jesse. So let me kind of, this is the framework I use to try to help get an idea of the journey we can go on as people, because I think that's the best way to look at this, because it truly is an exploration, right? I don't know where, there's no map.
15:45
but I'm heading off into the wilderness. And I'll, but I got a compass and hopefully that'll help. So the terminologies I use, I got to frame this a little bit. I use from the training I've got higher desire, lower desire. There's one in each relationship. One of you wants something more than the other. So therefore you're the higher desire. The other person could want it, but they don't want it like you do. So they're the lower desire because it's always comparative. And
16:11
If you think of it that way, a lot of times we will take one of those is right and one of them is wrong. And typically it's the one I've got is right and the one that my spouse has is wrong. But in reality, no, no one has high ground here. It's just a reality. So if you have that framework and then you apply this to married life is where it gets a little more, the rubber really meets the road and it gets more difficult. Because if I don't really know the woman I'm having sex with.
16:40
She doesn't know me. But if I have a life with this woman, she knows me. She knows when I've shown up. She knows when I'm present. She knows the goods and the bads of me. All of that. And so that will show up and present itself in our intimate moments together. And so I think of this in the terms of I'm the higher desire in my marriage. And so I know all of the different ways to increase the likelihood that my wife would be interested in sex.
17:09
I've been with her for 30 years. So I know, you know, I can take her on a date. We can go have a good night. We can hang out by the pool. I can take her to the beach. That always works. Heat and sand and water is a good thing for my wife. But I don't all of those things just increase the likelihood. But the flip side of this whole thing is none of those things will make me will make her want me.
17:36
There's a difference here, right? You guys, I'm kind of tracking you guys. You're seeing this, right? So it's just the goal then becomes recognizing the only thing I can do to be wanted is to present something I believe is worth choosing and wanting, which is the entirety of me. That's where character comes into play. That's where consistency comes into play. That's where integrity, trustworthiness, all of those devout, bigger
18:05
aspects of what make men men and women women That's where so when I bring these things together all of a sudden now I'm looking at this the this concept of our sex lives through a lens of I Wonder if my spouse who never seems to be interested in this and actually has good judgment Because what I'm seeking isn't worth wanting
18:34
Yeah. Wow. So I am in the space here, Corey, where I'm listening to this conversation and I, I am aware that basically, and now I'm going to summarize something to a very basic sentence. Basically what you're inviting us to is a recognition that sexuality is a integral part to our identity, not something separate from it. And yeah,
19:03
in our relationship with our own bodies and then, you know, with our spouse, that is the fullness of sex is the fullness of me bringing myself to her and her bringing herself to me. And it may involve sexual acts, but it also involves all the other things too. Yeah. And let's speak to anybody that's single too. It's also my sexuality brings me to the fullness of myself for myself. Yeah.
19:31
Yeah, the full say that again, the fullness of myself for myself. That's the piece that I love here. And especially as we're talking about the forging of our identity, right? This idea of I am becoming more myself as I grow into this. Well, and that's the concept of there's, there's three relationships at play when I'm involved with another person. There's the relationship with the other person. There's the relationship with God.
20:00
And then there's the relationship I have with myself. And I think there's triangles are always throughout history. Right, there's three points. But a lot of times what we do is we think of, oh, I'm bringing this to my sex life and my sexuality because I'm looking for something out there to then satisfy something within me. And yes, that is at play, but there's also how is this coming from the more goodness.
20:28
within me? How is this coming within some of the power within me? Because this is the example I can use for married couples to make sense that if you, my wife actually told me this about seven, eight years into our marriage because sex was incredibly one sided, it was always about me. And so she actually had the courage to say one day, I like sex, I just don't really like it with you. I don't get anything out of it.
20:58
Wow. Completely accurate and true with that statement. And here I am thinking I'm one of the most giving, serving, greatest husbands ever, but I was a horrible lover. So it was me being presented with me through the lens of my wife, which was accurate. Not entirely, but it was accurate. Right? Because she also in that move exposed herself.
21:27
which is does she really enjoy sex? Is that actually true or is that a portrayal to try to make it look like you get your act together and we'll be better, which is also a sophisticated move we do as human beings. Lots of higher desire spouses are actually seeking sex to prop themselves up in other areas of their lives, not just for sex. They want the validation of, look at how powerful I am. Look at how...
21:54
the abilities I have, look at the pleasure I can, well, all that, okay, well, that's an other thing. And so it's recognizing what's happening actually is I'm being presented with me too. And I need to reign, not reign, I need to recognize the power of that in my sexuality and then where do I steer it? Because the big thing I hear from single guys and
22:23
dating app right now as we're recording this and I get to speak every other week ish on these table talks that they get to do with several hundred that jump on so it's a blast. That's awesome. To just kind of talk to things they want to talk about when it comes to sexuality. But one of the bigger things I hear is yeah but if I'm not married what do I do with all this energy and all these all this power you know I'm like you steer it in good ways that's what you do. Yeah if I'm married I still have all this energy and prowess quote unquote.
22:52
And I don't just hopefully go around steering it to every woman I come across. I steer it to my wife. And so I think there's always boundaries with our sexuality on where I steer it, what I do with it, whether I'm in a relationship or not. I still have components of character I have to add that bring me to a bigger fullness of life. Because if you're just allowing people.
23:17
to do whatever it is they choose. Scripture talks about that. God gave them over to their own devices. It's like, oh yeah, well, if you wanna keep, all right, let's see how this works out for you guys. I'll sit back, I'll sit back and come and clean up the mess if I have to later somehow. It sounds like, Corey, when your wife said that to you, and I'm so glad that she did and invited you to that, and I'm sure that took a lot of kind of awareness and courage on her part to say that. And it sounds like back to where we were several minutes ago in the conversation of just like,
23:46
The physicality of what you were bringing to her was functioning, you know, in its prime, and the man was not following it. The man wasn't accompanying the sexual engagement. Well, and she also was easily cracking the code of my affection demonstrated towards her was solely tied to that act.
24:11
Uh, yeah, I did not treat her and I was not abusive or neglectful or anything like that. But my touch quotient went way up when I was horny or interested. And then once that was satisfied, I would go off and do whatever I was doing for the next day or two, three, and then all of a sudden it come back. And so she cracked the code real easy on like, Oh, I mean, I've had clients refer to this. The meter was running.
24:41
put coins in the meter. So it's like, and that's such a horrible, degrading way to look at both parties in this equation, actually. And so she recognized, okay, this isn't, yeah, it's a part of marriage. It's an important aspect of our life. Yes, but I wasn't honoring what it is and what it's capable of and bringing the best of me. And so when I started then that launched me
25:08
This is also coming off of the heels of an emotional betrayal by me. So I was on the really just getting mine together. I was a 27 year old teenager at the time. And so over the next man, five years, I just grew up because I finally was like, it's I realized what I could stand to lose here. Because I'm a strong enough woman. She won't tolerate less. Right. It's like, are you kidding me?
25:38
really? That's what you're bringing? Okay. We'll see how that works out for you, buddy. You know, and it's just, and it's not from a high ground statement. It's just like, I don't want to, I don't want to be with a boy like that. And so when you couple all that, that launched me into a path of really having to just grow up into being a better man, a lot more depth, a lot more integrity that I would live openly with people and consistently with people. So she started seeing that.
26:07
which then this is what I love. This is the system world I love living in. That put pressure on her to have to do the same in the areas she wasn't living in that way. Because we meet and fall in love with and stay with people that make sense. Right, we can sit there and think I got high ground on my spouse, but I guarantee you, you don't.
26:29
They have high ground on you somehow. You've got a little bit on them somehow and cancels each other out and you're both equally immature or mature. It just depends on what framework you want to use. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Because if you didn't make sense, it would be like, seriously? No, I'm out. It would have been a short-lived relationship and you would have moved on somebody else at that point. Yeah. So I think it's just, if you look at it, there's just a process all the time that, you know, we'll have conversations that I'm like, yeah, I'm glad I look back at my, my oldest, who's 18.
26:58
three years ago was sitting at the dinner table and asked if you guys can go back and change the biggest mistake in your life, would you? Which I immediately knew. I know exactly what that one thing was. So did my wife. And I looked at my wife and I said, no, I actually wouldn't because I wouldn't be who I am had I not gone through that. I would love to have learned in a different way. Yeah. Right. But no, our biggest mistakes are what for just the most. Right. Most of the time.
27:28
particularly with what I do with it, right? Because integrity, integrity to me is defined more by what I do after I've acted against my integrity. Which that's such good news. Like that's, yeah, I would say that's actually the gospel, right? Like actually Jesus is willing this to say, to take what is the worst in our life, right? And say, no, like they're in that death. There will be be new life in that. Corey, thanks. Yeah.