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You became a coach to help people — but no one told you how to build the business behind it.
Coach as Entrepreneur is the show for coaches who want to go beyond referrals and create a real business that supports both their clients and their family. Each episode explores the systems, strategies, and stories that help coaches simplify marketing, attract the right clients, and grow sustainably, without burning out.
Whether you’re just starting or looking to scale, this is your roadmap to running your coaching practice like a business… and doing it with heart.
Build the system. Serve your clients. Support your family.
ep 23 david campbell
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[00:00:15] [00:00:30] every great journey needs a navigator. Today's guest is David Campbell, the business navigation expert, who spent 20 plus years helping business owners chart fresh courses [00:00:45] by transforming how they think, plan and lead. You became a coach to help people, but no one told you how to build the business behind it.
Welcome to Coach as Entrepreneur, the show for coaches building real businesses with [00:01:00] systems, strategy and heart. Build a system, serve your clients, and support your family. Thank you for joining me today. How are you doing? It's great to be here, David. I'm, I'm well. I'm well.
Well, it's a pleasure to have you and I'm really [00:01:15] excited to get into this conversation with you.
There are a lot of coaches who have been in the business for 20 plus years, so I always kind of. Like to ask about how did you even get started in coaching? [00:01:30] Because 20 plus years ago, that was like the wild west for, for coaching.
It, it was, wasn't it? Um, look, coaching has always been my go-to. Uh, I, I suppose engagement with staff or with other [00:01:45] people.
Uh, you know, I spent 20 years in the military and, and as a, as an officer in the military, you can give an order and people just have to, to follow it. But I found over the years that adopting a coaching principle [00:02:00] allowed me to engage my sailors in a, in a much more effective way so that they were at a point where they were actually, understanding and, and moving forward with the directions.
So I've, I've always coached from that [00:02:15] perspective. Uh, I then got involved with the John Maxwell organization. And that introduced me to much more formalized coaching. And so I, I sort of expanded a little bit there. And then 20 odd years ago, I decided that [00:02:30] I really wanted to have a business as a coach.
And so I formalized some coaching qualifications and, and then stepped out and started my own business. And so coaching for [00:02:45] me has always been the, the method of, of engaging.
I see. Today coaching industry is very formalized now, um, compared to 20 years ago. So when you started coaching, how did you [00:03:00] even approach people and talk to them about.
You know, being a coach and, and looking for, for clients, because I assume people, when you talk to people and they ask like, what do you do for work? And you said a coach, there'd be some level of [00:03:15] confusion around that.
Yeah. Look, there, there was quite a level of confusion around the whole, what does a coach do?
So there was a bit of education that was required when you, you actually spoke to people in network groups and, and all those sort of things. [00:03:30] But I, I think there was also this underlying, uh, sense of if America does it, we don't want to do it. And you know, it's kind of, I remember years ago hearing, you know, I've got a therapist and everyone used to [00:03:45] say typical American kind of thing.
Uh, and I think coaching got swept up into that mentality. Uh, and I'm not saying it's a good or a bad mentality, I'm just saying it got swept up into it. And so when you start talking to people [00:04:00] about what you do as a coach, the life coach component always leapt out. And for a lot of years, uh, coaching was totally unregulated.
And so people could, could hang up a shingle and say, I'm a life coach, and jump out [00:04:15] there and, and really not deliver much in the way of a decent product to their clients. And I, I pushed very hard to stay within the business coaching area and, and so my conversations with business owners [00:04:30] was much more around, what are your processes?
What are your procedures? What are your structures? How do you engage with your staff? How do you engage with clients, et cetera, et cetera. And, and then coming up with a range of models that, that you could talk to them about. [00:04:45] They could say, okay, that, that now makes sense and look at improving their business from that perspective.
So when you first started coaching, what was that experience like for you and for your client? How did that work out for you?
Look, it [00:05:00] was, it was difficult for me when I first started. Um, I, I self-funded myself to start, and finding clients initially was really, really difficult.
I am not, uh, on the, the di sort of side of the, [00:05:15] the disc spectrum. I'm very much a, a conscientious dot. The i's cross the t's kind of person. And so getting out there and, and trying to sell my services on my wares has always been a [00:05:30] real challenge for me. It's, it's something that I hate. But in hating it, I have to do it, so I'm becoming better at it.
Mm-hmm. You know, you can, you can spend a lot of money trying to find out how to sell yourself. You know, the coaching bit's actually really easy. [00:05:45] The business bit is the difficult bit. And depending on your personality and, and how that all links together, you will struggle in various areas.
And for me, that area is the sales area.
Mm-hmm. Once I've got a client, I [00:06:00] usually have that client for years. Right. So that struggle. I think that is a struggle that many coaches deal with. So. You know, 20 years ago. I imagine that was difficult because there was very little understanding of what does a coach [00:06:15] do?
How does this add value? What, what am I actually buying? I guess the question today is how has it gotten easier for you, or how do you approach that today?
Uh, look, I, I think it's got easier for me, but it's, I, I think it's got [00:06:30] easier because I have a better understanding of how to approach it. You know, the, the, the whole principle of what's your, your point of pain, I have a solution to help you with that. Let's talk, you know, it really is [00:06:45] that, get on the level with the, the individual and, and work out what's going on. The, the struggle I have is that my personality is one of, I, I'm happy to give stuff away, and so I will actually give free coaching [00:07:00] sessions.
Not intentionally, it's just, you know, we'll be on a call like this and I'll, I'll be coaching and all of a sudden I'll think, oh gee, this is actually what I do for a living and I'm now undercutting myself. You know, I, I find that bit a bit of a challenge. You know, how [00:07:15] do you, how do you do that?
How do you have the conversation but not sell the service?
Does that make sense? So,
It makes complete sense because, I think the general personality of a coach is somebody who is [00:07:30] already willing to. Help other people to give value to their lives.
I think many coaches are just people who are also looking to do something more than, you know, just making money. [00:07:45] Um, a lot of the coaches that I've spoken to and are coming out of corporate executive positions, and so they openly admit that when they start coaching, they're taking a massive pay cut because Yep.
You know, it, it just kind of [00:08:00] is what it is. And so that personality type isn't necessarily like a natural, sales personality type. Um, and so a lot of coaches I also speak to, they hate the idea of marketing, um, because they [00:08:15] don't want to add to the. To the overwhelm of what ends up coming in through your LinkedIn mailbox or into your Yeah.
You know, email. Right. And so there's a lot of, overthinking concern and, I don't [00:08:30] want to, where they don't want to come across as salesy or marketing, adding to the noise because they don't, they don't like it themselves. So, yeah. I, I think that that's like this big mental hurdle that a lot of coaches, are learning [00:08:45] to kind of overcome because until you really, overcome that, that barrier, how do you find new clients? Unless you're only talking to referrals.
Yeah. Look, e exactly. It's, it's a massive [00:09:00] challenge. Um, you.
And, and I suppose, you know, I've taken the, the approach of niching to a particular platform. So I don't, I don't throw myself out there on, on Instagram or on Twitter or [00:09:15] on on Facebook. My coaching is all very much focused into LinkedIn. Um mm-hmm. And, and the reason I go there is that that is where the majority of my clients actually are from a [00:09:30] professional day-to-day point of view.
Right. So one thing I've noticed though, is that on LinkedIn a lot of coaches will post and then they have a lot of other coaches posting and [00:09:45] connecting with them. So how do you connect with your ideal client on LinkedIn? Like, I don't think it's necessarily a problem, but I, I wonder how do you, in the midst of that audience [00:10:00] connect with, with the leaders and the business people that you're trying to, to work with?
Yeah. Yeah. So I, I started a couple of years ago with a, a very definite strategy of building purposeful connections. Mm-hmm. And as you go along, you [00:10:15] are going to get connections that are a waste of time. I, I knock back a number of connections from people who wanna sell me a new website and, and that sort of stuff. It's gonna happen. Yeah. But the approach I took was, I looked at LinkedIn and I thought, how can I engage with [00:10:30] the people that I want to actually engage with? And I saw a number of layers. The first one was obviously doing a connection, doing a post to, to get people following you and, and interested in what you're saying and, and that sort of stuff.
I [00:10:45] then started inviting those people to join a group that I had created. Uh, and, and in that group I was putting additional, uh, information that was more related around, uh, you as a [00:11:00] leader, you as a manager in an organization. And then on top of that, I also started doing newsletters because the, the LinkedIn newsletter lands directly in a person's inbox, so they're not having to go to the, to the app or the website or [00:11:15] whatever to, to get to it.
It lands in their, their inbox. And so I've, I've got this strategy of general posts, posts to a group of people who've expressed an interest in what I. Do and what I talk about, [00:11:30] and then newsletters that go out to an even further, you know, defined group. Mm-hmm. So people need to sign up to, to get a newsletter from you.
And so I've, I've built my, my following [00:11:45] for want of a better term. You know, I'm, I'm upwards of 10,000 connections and I've got about 1500 newsletter subscribers, so people who want to read what I actually produce. Mm-hmm.
And [00:12:00] so I've built that over time. And then every now and then I go back through that list and I say, Hey, I've got a course coming up, would you be interested?
And I'm literally doing that at this moment, this last couple of weeks. Uh, I've been using [00:12:15] my VA to, go through that process. And we've picked up, I think it's about five at the moment, that, that we need to follow up with a, a one-to-one conversation, which will then connect them into the program that I'm, [00:12:30] uh, that I've got sort of designed off to one side.
Right. Okay. And then from the program. This is kind of what I tell coaches that they should be doing right, is you need to create visibility for yourself, [00:12:45] right. So that people know you, you're there at the, you exist, and that you can continue to build trust and authority with them, right?
Yeah. So LinkedIn becomes kind of your really wide catch wide net, and then [00:13:00] you have them in your newsletters, which is a little bit tighter group, but still very. Quite large. Um, yep. And then from there, you invite them when you have something new, so your course, or you could do something else if you, [00:13:15] yeah, I'm sure if you sent a message to that list, you could probably say, Hey, I'm doing a, I've got one space or five spaces for new clients this next year.
You know, if, would you be interested? So I, I think that's like kind of almost textbook, [00:13:30] approach to, to building it, building your business, and going about doing that. Like how did you kind, come to this, uh, style and approach? Did they just come to you overnight or how did you come around to this?
So the, the, the LinkedIn [00:13:45] strategy approach, is that what you mean? Mm-hmm. Um, I, I think it's, it's come about through a, a series of, uh, a failed attempts to do things. Talking to people who actually understand LinkedIn better than I [00:14:00] do. There's a great guy in America and I'm quite happy to give him a shout out if you are willing to, to let me Yeah.
Give him a shout out. He's, his name's John Nemo. Um, and John and I connected probably seven or eight years ago. [00:14:15] Mm-hmm. But he, he has a, you know, done for you style of, of, uh, engagement. Uh, I must admit, I haven't paid him to do that. Um, mm-hmm. But I, I read his material [00:14:30] ruthlessly and, um, and I've learned a lot from him because he's, he's quite willing to give away this material as a, as a LinkedIn coach.
Yeah. And so, um, so I've taken that and, and broken it down and [00:14:45] talked with my VA about, and I've been with her now for, must be coming on five years. Hmm. Um, so she's become very used to what I do and how I think and, and how I process things. So, yeah. It's, it's just been a strategy that has evolved [00:15:00] gently over time.
Yeah. Uh, and, and then as, as I sort of gather more information, I think, okay, I'll, I'll adjust this and move over there. I, I was part of a program a while back where, you know, it was, it was the, the [00:15:15] days where they used to say, advertise on Facebook, get people to come to a webinar. You present a webinar and you don't give them anything in the webinar other than a link to join your course.
Yeah. And I, [00:15:30] I just really struggled with that. I, uh, it was, to me it was very salesy. It was very, uh, not me. Right. So, so I've, but I've taken some good [00:15:45] information from it. Mm-hmm. And, and I mentioned earlier, you know, what's the pain point of the client? So, you know, most of the, the marketing I do now, most of the, the information I put out, even newsletters are based [00:16:00] around a pain point that someone has raised with me while I've been coaching or that I had a conversation with. You know, I, I put one out, was it yesterday day before on finishing the, the year. Well, hmm. So as a business owner, what are we [00:16:15] doing to finish the year? Well, and, and I. I linked it into a message that I'd heard and, and sort of pulled all that down and, and muled around a bit and made it a business concept.
And then yeah, put that [00:16:30] out. So, you know, I'm, I'm always doing that, always looking for, those touch points that, you know, you, you might write a, a, you know, five, six page article and it'll touch two or three people, but those two or three [00:16:45] people will then come into you and say, right, this is, this is for me. Yeah,
Yeah. Which is, you know, the point where people kind of say like, the whole content marketing approach, uh, that came out, uh, years ago, which, [00:17:00] you need to create visibility for yourself if the whole marketing feels. Not you, then how do you create visibility for yourself?
So when I, whenever I even talk about marketing, I [00:17:15] don't, I don't call it marketing, I always refer to it as visibility because if people don't know who you are, that you exist, then they're not coming to you for work. Yeah. And so visibility can, can go about doing a [00:17:30] number of different approaches, right?
You can go through and you can do social media posts, you can go out and do networking events. You can, you know, have coffee, but it's going out and telling people and connecting with people, right? Yeah. Talking about what you [00:17:45] do, what they do, building real relationships. I think even for myself, 'cause I'm not.
That creative of a marketing person, uh, or a salesperson. But when I, when I talk to myself about just creating visibility, building relationships, [00:18:00] online or offline, it makes it a lot more easier. Again, you're just, delivering value and you're connecting with people in a or at least trying to connect with people in a, in a real way that is improving their lives, right?
I think, I think it's, it [00:18:15] really is a case. There used to be a, well, there still is a saying no. Like, and trust. And that's what any connection is about. Any building of rapport is about, coaches should be good at building rapport. It should be the first thing [00:18:30] they do every single coaching session is, is build rapport with the, with the client because you've got a, a limited time to be able to do things and, and impact that person.
So we should be good at it. But when it comes to the visibility slash [00:18:45] marketing component, we're not so good at it. And, and so I think it is a case of, of be consistently out there. I don't mean flood the market, you know, I, I'm, at the moment I'm only posting, two to [00:19:00] three times a week. Uh, a while back when I was building my numbers, I was posting every single day. But now I've, I've wound that back to two or three times a week with an engagement, uh, direct message sort of mm-hmm. After the event. [00:19:15] But yeah, it, it really is all about getting people to know, like, and trust you. Yeah, that, that's so good. and it's getting people to know, like, and trust you, and then just coming about it from a different approach, that different mindset of, [00:19:30] you know, let's not desperately kind of get the sales, but let's try to build a real connection and, give people value.
I'm curious, you know, what's been something that's surprising for you as you've been building your coaching business compared to, being in the [00:19:45] military? I think the military was, was sheltered from business. So for me, going out into business was a bit of a culture shock. But I, I have to say, since I've been coaching, one of the things that that just strikes [00:20:00] me as almost unfathomable is that businesses that I engage with don't actually know or understand where they're going.
It, it sounds like a really bizarre thing, but, uh, let me, let me try [00:20:15] to give you an example. You know, there's a tradie who's, who's been working for somebody else, laying bricks, you know, running electrical cable, whatever his trade is, and he's, he's looked at his boss and he said, I can do [00:20:30] that. And so he's, he stepped aside and he started his own business.
And the starting the business is great, starting the business is just regenerating that same, you know, I've got a job to do tomorrow. All you've done is buy your [00:20:45] job. And I, I find, and I would go so far as to say it's 85, 90% of businesses that I engage with have never actually stopped and thought, where are we going? What purpose does my business [00:21:00] serve in this great big world? I'm, I'm amazed that so many businesses going down that track and, and that's why I now call myself the navigation expert. I, it's about helping somebody [00:21:15] find that purpose. Um, you know, Simon Sinek calls it your why.
Um, yeah. I, I refer to it as, as the purpose of your business. That will get you outta bed in the morning when there's no money in the bank and you haven't got any jobs coming and all the rest of it, [00:21:30] but it'll get you outta bed in the morning and make you go to work. Mm-hmm. So what a, what is that purpose and from that flow, so many things that the businesses need help with.
Mm-hmm. And I've, I've even seen businesses been running [00:21:45] for, for 20, 30 years that don't actually understand the purpose of why they exist. That's, That's interesting because, I've actually noticed something a little similar with the coaches that I've spoken with in some of the [00:22:00] conversations that we've had, which is, you know, where are you trying to go in the next, you know, three to five years? What's this business that you're building? Hmm. A lot of coaches that I've spoken with, I mean, one, they're just trying to survive, to get new [00:22:15] clients, to get business, yeah. And pay the bills. But in their mind, I think a lot of coaches are just, they just want to work with people and help them.
But you know, 'cause most coaches are solos, you're not really [00:22:30] as you said, you're not, you just bought yourself a business. And so I've, this whole idea of the coach's entrepreneur, I came up with the idea and the title because I feel like a lot of coaches don't actually understand that what they're doing is they're [00:22:45] becoming entrepreneurs, right?
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. You're, you're an entrepreneur first, then you're a coach. Yeah. And look, I, I agree with you. You know, people, people say to me, well, you know, you know, physician heal thyself. A [00:23:00] number of years ago, I was going through that same struggle that a lot of your listeners will be going through right now. And, um, I, I think I mentioned this to you in sort of in passing, but I had cancer and I was being treated for cancer. And, um, it was, it was [00:23:15] in one of those, you know, moments of everything in life feels like crap that I sat down and I, I had a coffee and I was actually looking across my lounge room to the, it's that side [00:23:30] to the ship model in my background.
And, and it just dawned on me that this is what I need to do. This is my purpose, my drive, my, whatever it is. And so I've now come up with an [00:23:45] entire. Structure, including my own business purpose. You know, my, my purpose is to see businesses transformed by renewing the way they think. Mm-hmm. And, and I, I lock that into, into the, the whole concept that we've [00:24:00] achieved, everything we've done so far by thinking the way we currently do. If we want to go further, we have to think differently. Right. We have to, to ramp up that thinking in some way. How do we do that? And, and that's where I've, I've locked into the fact [00:24:15] that I am on a grand adventure. Mm. A a and my grand adventure is taking my, my business, wherever it happens to go in the world, engaging with whoever it happens to engage with, but getting those [00:24:30] people to come and journey with me.
So I see the grand adventure. It's a bit like setting sail on a ship and you pull out through the heads and you are on a journey, you're on an adventure to somewhere. Mm-hmm. And, and that's what business [00:24:45] owners and coaches need to start to get a grip off is what is the grand adventure that I'm on? And are people excited enough to come along with me?
Or are they just watching me out of idle [00:25:00] curiosity? Mm-hmm.
Do you mind if we, kind of like in the first, what are a few questions or things that coaches should be thinking about as they're thinking about building their business and going on this grand adventure? Like, if you could [00:25:15] share three or five ideas or questions, what, what are the things that they should be thinking about?
So I, I'm a, I'm a firm believer in, in locking in, before you even start your business, locking in what is your core, [00:25:30] why, your core purpose, what are your values and what is your mission? Now, you know, you, you will have heard some of those referred to as, you know, what, what sort of a niche are you looking for as a coach?
And that's, that's kind of [00:25:45] coming at it from, from a different direction. But I think if you can lock in those three key things, first up, your purpose, your why, your values, and then your mission. [00:26:00] If you can get those in place, then you've actually set a foundation for everything else to move on. Because if you, if you think about it, and, and I'm gonna jump over to my sailing ship analogy.
If you think about your, [00:26:15] those three as the hull of the ship, you've got the keel, you've got the ribs, and you've got the planking, and they all go together to actually make a vessel. Mm-hmm. Then you start sticking masks in. [00:26:30] Now the master, the stuff that you sell, what are the products you sell? And they have to be anchored into the keel.
They have to be anchored into your purpose, your why. Otherwise they'll just blow over. And so if, if [00:26:45] as a business owner or a new business owner, you can sit down and you can work through that purpose, through those, those values, and then come up with a mission statement of some variety that's going to [00:27:00] lay that foundation for you to go forward.
Fantastic. Thank you for sharing with, with us. No, that's alright. I will. I will say though, David, that you know, a lot of people do this sort of stuff in big corporate organizations. They never do it as a small business [00:27:15] owner and a lot of people don't even know how to start doing it. And so I've, I've actually designed a, an AI engine that will help my clients do that.
So if people are interested, they can get in touch with me. [00:27:30] Let them know how to get to that AI engine. And it, it literally takes you a couple of days to sit down and work it through, but it'll come out with an, an answer for you. Mm-hmm. You know, the answer's not always going to be a hundred percent accurate, [00:27:45] but it's, it's a foundation that you can then grow from.
You know, I, I remember when I went through this process of working out my why, working out my, my values. My values took me all of 20 minutes mm-hmm. [00:28:00] To pull together my why I really struggled with, and my mission, I really struggled with. And, and it took me several weeks to lock into what those things were.
But now I've, you know, I've got a whiteboard on the, [00:28:15] the wall over there, and at the top of it, it's got written, be transformed by the renewing of your, your mind. Finding success in that freedom. Mm-hmm. And then under it, I've got my values. So, you know, they, they're [00:28:30] constantly there for me, but they guide everything I do.
They, they guide, they guided. The fact that I was happy to come on and do this with you was, was what we were going to do aligning with my values. Yes. It was, [00:28:45] it became an, an easy statement. So you can wind up getting clients and, and you think. Do I really wanna work with this person? And if, if your values don't align, just don't go there.
The, the, the emotional [00:29:00] energy involved in dealing with, with clients that just don't want to do anything or whatever it might be Yeah. Is it's just not worth it.
Yeah. I think, and that's, um, I had a conversation with another David, um, he was from, [00:29:15] from Georgia in, in the us and he was saying, like, he was saying that one of the clients he, he worked with, he, he really had to sell them into coaching. And so he had to basically kind of drag them [00:29:30] through the process.
Yeah. And it was, it, it was still good for them, but it wasn't, easy. In that it just took a lot of effort, a lot more energy than his other clients. And [00:29:45] so he kind of realized, I shouldn't be selling them. I shouldn't be enrolling them. And it, it, it kind of, again, that, that switch of we're not selling some product.
It's a service that can really change. And if [00:30:00] you're going to work with somebody and you're gonna keep working with lots of people who, who actually wants to be helped in the first place?
Mm-hmm. And to be changed and then. Because you also have to think about how are you [00:30:15] working with as many people as possible and having the energy to do that, right? Yeah. You're not a, you can't just fill your tank up and just keep going. Right. So I think when it comes to the whole idea of client selection, that's really [00:30:30] important.
Who, who do you connect with? You don't need to connect with 10,000 people. You only need to co connect with, you know, depending on how many people you're coaching a year, 10, 20. Right. And making sure that they're aligned with [00:30:45] you, that, you know, they understand what you're trying to do. And working with them is a, good collaborative process.
[00:31:00] [00:31:15] For you, how do you go about your client selection? Like when you work with one-to-one clients, um, to become a one-to-one client, you have to have gone through quite a, a [00:31:30] process. I like to try and sign people up to a program first. Walk them through that where there's a, there is a group coaching element to it.
And then through that process start to understand what they're trying to do, where they're trying to [00:31:45] get to. Mm-hmm. And then to become a one-to-one client, they need to go to another level. Um, but, but that other level is very much engagement with me as, as the coach. Still asks them to do a whole lot of work, a whole lot of [00:32:00] background activity.
Uh, if they're not willing to do that, I divest myself of them. Mm-hmm. Um, but normally they are there, so they're, they're part of that program. Um, I am trying to work out at the [00:32:15] moment good ways to, to encourage growth of that process. So if I have a one-to-one client, yes, they're seeing results in their business, but, but how can I make it more engaging?
And, and I'm, [00:32:30] uh, I haven't announced this yet, but one of the things I'm looking at is taking people on a tall ship adventure, uh, because I talk about the grand adventure. So I've discovered that you can do tall ship adventures and, and I'm really [00:32:45] keen to, to head down that pathway. Uh, the other one is, is, I dunno whether you've heard of, uh, the concept of a challenge coin.
Have you heard of challenge coins? No, I haven't. So a challenge coin, it's, it's an X Well, x it's, it's an old [00:33:00] military thing. I'm just reaching over to pull one out. Mm-hmm. But I, uh, a recognition of something that you have a achieved in comment. So I've, I've actually designed a, a challenge coin and, [00:33:15] and this is it here.
Fantastic. So it's, it's physically a coin. It's, it's, yeah, it looks beautiful. It's metal. And I've, I've had engraved on one side, the ship, the ship [00:33:30] model and it, and it says the grand adventure of business. And then on the other side, I've got the, the logo of my, my, uh, course, my program, which is called Gym Getting You Moving.
And, and that [00:33:45] has an underlying statement of the missing piece of business success. So gym is a, a bit of a, it's a bit of a jigsaw puzzle. And, and you've got a, what's the piece I'm missing that will make my business succeed? And so [00:34:00] if, if a person gets through my gym program, they get a challenge point.
They don't, they're not paying for it. They just get a challenge coin. And, and I'm offering that as a, firstly, an incentive [00:34:15] that you're through the course. Here's this, congratulations. I'd like to give it in in person, but that doesn't always happen. Yeah. Uh, but the, the flip side is that if they ever rock up to an event that I'm at, they can pull that challenge coin out [00:34:30] and it's an automatic, I am part of this crew.
Mm-hmm. So nobody else has this. Right. I'm part of this crew. And that immediately means that you can have the conversation of, of [00:34:45] commonality, of walking through business and, you know, better understanding of, of where we've been together, what the journey is together. So that's, that's one of the ways, along with the tall ship.
Sort of [00:35:00] scenario that I'm looking to further reward people who come on this journey. I love that because, um, you know, there's all the, the ideas of community building and growing and developing [00:35:15] communities, but rarely do you get like this physical coin or object that you can kind of say, Hey, look at what I've got.
Yeah. So I think that's, that's fantastic. That's really cool. Yeah, just cognizant of time. I, I [00:35:30] do kind of wanna switch, switch to gears a little bit. Generally, generally we spend more time about the business at the end of the conversation, but, there's just so much, you know, wisdom and knowledge there. But for you as a coach, I asked this question to [00:35:45] most of the guests, which is. What have you found to be the most rewarding part of the work that you're doing now? I, I think the most rewarding part has, has always been the same thing. So [00:36:00] when I first started out coaching to right now, um, I, I was coaching a, a lady the other day who's, who's actually looking for a new job.
Hmm. And she emailed me and said, David, I've got a job. I landed [00:36:15] that I, you know, I landed it. And for me it's that a aha moment, that excitement that comes from achieving the end goal. Now I know the work she's put into doing that and, and, you know, preparing the, the [00:36:30] previous organization for her to move on and, and looking where she was going next and all those sorts of bits and pieces and, and taking that leadership quality with her.
And so I, I know the journey she's been on and I get excited for her. I [00:36:45] get excited for my client when I see them winning. To me, that's, that's really what gets me outta bed in the morning is it's, it's that whole, how can I help somebody today? How can, how can this [00:37:00] person move forward and, and have another aha moment of their own?
I love that. And I, and I think again, that's, that's why most coaches are coaching is because they want to be, create bigger. Direct [00:37:15] impact with people versus, you know, just kind of going through the corporate grind or, you know, yeah. Just doing those things. The question I also al try to ask is, you know, you've gone through and you have these great moments, but you also have [00:37:30] these difficult times.
Right? And so with, with your clients, how do you, I mean, I'd be surprised in 20 years if you never had a different difficult client or a client who's gone through a, a difficult experience. Yeah. How have you helped [00:37:45] them through those difficult times of, you know, the ups and downs? It's, that bit is a real challenge.
It's, it's a question of, of how far into you, into you, do you allow somebody to come? One [00:38:00] that immediately came to mind when I was, when you were asking the question was a, one of the first clients I ever had, uh, he ran a, he ran a small picture framing business and he was going out backwards and a friend of his said, you [00:38:15] need to talk to David.
And so I, he was referred to me and I went in and saw him. And, um, between us, we got to the point of saying, yeah, actually, you need to close this down. You just, you're burning money. [00:38:30] There is no recovery from this. you would be better off closing down and going and starting something else before the administrators step in and, and make you bankrupt.
And I still see that guy probably twice a year as a [00:38:45] friend. Um, you know, he is, he is a lovely guy, and we go out and we have dinner together or lunch together and catch up. I think you, you go to a deeper level when those people are going through real [00:39:00] hardships and how do you support them through that? One of the comments that has been made to me several times is you have a knack of, drawing out the good and the bad of my life. You [00:39:15] know, I, I don't do that intentionally. I, I, I think it's just my nature that mm-hmm. You know, people come to me to, to explore the coaching journey. And in doing that, there's a whole lot of other things that come into play.
And so [00:39:30] they, they feel comfortable that they can then share those things and deal with those things. And often that helps in bringing the actual initial coaching journey into a, you know, a better position. I can [00:39:45] tell that you've done a lot of work you spend a lot of time considering and thinking about your clients. So for you, as you've been doing that, what has been something that's been, you know, one of the most rewarding parts of running your own [00:40:00] business? I, I think it's, it literally is getting to deal with so many different people, you know, in.
In previous jobs I've had as a naval officer, as a, you know, c-suite level, [00:40:15] C-E-O-C-I-O kind of person, you don't get that same personal interaction. You, you might do it with, with your staff or something like that, but I get that personal interaction with, with lots and lots of [00:40:30] people. And, and so for me that's, that's one of the rewarding parts about being a coach is, um, you're doing that journey with people.
Mm-hmm. Whatever that looks like. So it's, it's a bit like, again, [00:40:45] it's, it's my, my navy sailing ship sort of understanding. You know, those, those people are on a sailing ship as well. They're not on the same one as you. You've come together out at sea for some reason, and, and we're doing a replenishment at [00:41:00] sea, so passing stool across and all the rest of, and then we go separate ways, and then we might bump into each other further down the track.
And that's one that I love is, is when someone comes back to me in [00:41:15] five years time, I had one of these, and it, it, it might sound sort of made up, but I literally had one of these last week, I saw a, a guy's name come up on my, my calendar as wanting to have a, a, an [00:41:30] initial call. I thought I know that name.
And I went back through my database and sure enough, I've worked with him four years ago and, um, and he was coming back of his own volition to have a conversation again with me. And look [00:41:45] at, at the moment, that'll probably be a, a two or three session conversation and then he'll move on again. But. It was just so nice knowing that I was at the forefront of his mind when it came to who will I go [00:42:00] and talk to.
I mean, when you, when you've been doing running your business for 20 plus years and you're, you're doing courses and you have books, people, you know, naturally start to just kind of swim around, [00:42:15] you know, following this metaphor. Uh, yeah. They swim around your ship. Right. And they, and you, you know, when they have a problem because they already know and trust you, they're gonna come back.
Yeah. Yeah. Very true. Very true. And, and look, I'm, you know, [00:42:30] I used to, one of my own self-limiting beliefs was that, uh, I, I didn't feel. I had anything that I really could put into a book and, and offer to people. Mm-hmm. And, uh, I'm up to number, number seven now. Uh, so [00:42:45] it's, uh, it's, that bit has, has been a real challenge, but, and an absolute eyeopener.
Mm-hmm. That's a lot of books. It's, it is. They, they're not big books, you know, they, they, I [00:43:00] usually go for a hundred, 150 pages, but nothing more than that. I, I, I feel that that's, that's enough for somebody to engage with and, and try and apply principles and, and that sort of stuff. So, uh, so that's why I've kept [00:43:15] them shorter and thinner.
Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, so, but it's just, again, it's, it's just that ability to help people. Mm-hmm. For you, going through this experience of being a coach for the last 20 plus [00:43:30] years, what have you learned about yourself, uh, as a coach? I love that question. Um, what have I learned as a, as a coach? I think I, I've learned that I, and I have to control [00:43:45] this, that I, I buy into the journey that other people are on too much.
So I, I need to make sure I separate that and, you know, continue my own journey while we're [00:44:00] still side by side. Mm-hmm. But I, I buy into the emotion of, of the journey that they're going on. Mm-hmm. And so I feel, I feel the pain, I feel the anguish that they are feeling. Whatever is happening in their life, their [00:44:15] business at the time.
So I've learned that I, I need to separate from that. I, I, I have to find ways of, of not going down that pathway. How do you kind of, it seems like you're a highly empathetic [00:44:30] kind of person. Yeah. And so how do you separate yourself from, the clients that you work with? Then? Some, some of it is, is making sure I debrief.
So I use my wife for, for debriefing. Uh, other things [00:44:45] that I do, I, I have a hobby of wood turning. Um, you know, I make, bowls and, and all sorts of things, but I, I, you know, you can probably hold it up there. Yeah. I made that as a, as [00:45:00] a pen. So it's just a, you know, a kit and I. Put it on the lay and made it.
So, uh, I, I find that gives me a creative outlet mm-hmm. To be able to, to do something like that. [00:45:15] And that allows me to, to mentally step away from that situation. We've, uh, we've recently moved house. We we're in the same house for goodness, for 40 odd years. And we've [00:45:30] just recently moved to a property and we're mm-hmm.
We're now on 24 acres of, of land. And, um, our daughter, we've, we've only got the one child, but our daughter and her children and her husband are, are in on the same property. They're in the [00:45:45] house right next door to us on the property. Mm-hmm. And so I've, I've allowed myself to, to put in place almost a retirement plan.
I'm not a great believer in the [00:46:00] concept of retirement, but, um, I've, I've put in place this retirement plan of, do stuff on the property, do stuff with the family, be available for the grandkids, um, you know, do, do some wood [00:46:15] turning, you know, all of these sort of things. But it's, it's about adding that diversity to my life.
Yeah. That allows me to not just get so locked into the difficult journey that [00:46:30] somebody else might be going on. Yeah. So you give yourself time and space away from, from the client work. You have somebody you can confide in and to de debrief with. Yeah. And then you [00:46:45] have. Work out things to do outside of that, of personal life and hobbies.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've, I've also cut back, you know, I, I only do 20 hours of face-to-face coaching now. Mm-hmm. That's, that's the maximum. Yeah. I won't, I won't do more than [00:47:00] 20 hours in a week,
and I think I'll probably be cutting back on that in the new year. Mm-hmm. Okay. And I think there's nothing wrong with that. You're right. Your, your, your purpose. Where are you going? Your, your [00:47:15] path that you're taking. You have a, an idea of where you're going. And, I, I would say you probably, if you wanted to, you probably definitely could continue doing as many hours as you wanted.
Absolutely. I can. Yeah. But you also have, I mean, you also have [00:47:30] your family and your grandkids right next door. Yeah. So other priorities will start to come up that, that take over. Yeah. And for me, that's fine. Yeah. And I love that that's what you're doing, that you're taking this time [00:47:45] and prioritizing, you know, in your mind what is important and at this stage of your life, family and other things are more, are, are becoming more or just as important as the business side of things, right?
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. [00:48:00] Just two more questions before we close. Sure. What would be one piece of advice that you'd give to somebody who's just beginning in their coaching journey
understand the true nature of coaching and trust the process? So let me, [00:48:15] let me give you a an example of that. To me, the true nature of coaching is, you know, I am not a, I'm not a person who worked in the IT industry and I now coach people in the IT industry. Okay. I am a pure coach, [00:48:30] and a pure coach is a person who asks the right questions and trusts the process that the client will actually get an outcome. You just keep asking the right questions. You don't, I don't pre-think anything. [00:48:45] I trust the process. When I first did some coaching training, the, uh, the trainer got us to, to pair up and he gave us a set of juggling balls here's some juggling balls. I want you to coach the [00:49:00] person you're paired up with on how to juggle and where to go with it.
And, you know, we're throwing balls around and all the rest of it. And, and every single one of us in, in the group saying, okay, so maybe what you should try is this. [00:49:15] Maybe what you should try is this. And, and, and that's not coaching. Coaching is turning around and saying, what worked? What could you try that is different?
And getting the client to actually think, well, what [00:49:30] worked was I managed to get the first ball up, but I didn't transfer that second ball into the first. I might try that this time. Good on you. Let's give that a try. Okay. Ready? 1, 2, 3, go. [00:49:45] That was better, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I felt better about that, but I still stuffed it.
Okay. So what could we do differently next time? And it was such an eyeopener to the simple power of coaching. And [00:50:00] I, I really do feel that a significant number of coaches don't actually understand that principle. Thank you for sharing that. I think that's a really powerful vi visual, um, that is.
So easy to connect [00:50:15] with. It was a powerful experience. The last question before we close would be, um, what is next for your coaching business and moving, you know, in the next year? So, I'm, I'm ramping up the [00:50:30] grand adventure mm-hmm. And locking that into the gym program.
So the grand adventure and, and what I call a blue nose effect is the sailing ship. The gym program is getting you moving [00:50:45] through this framework of the grand adventure so that you actually understand what you're doing, where you're going, and what you're trying to achieve. So I'm, I'm looking at doing that in a couple of layers.
The first layer is going to be people coming in and, and [00:51:00] signing up and just doing the online learning platform. The next layer is do that, but also have a weekly catch up in a group coaching session where we, I present a, a particular [00:51:15] teaching process or, or part of the method or conversation, answer some questions from the group, and then we move on through to the next layer, which is the, the, the people who are joining me on the blue nose.
Mm-hmm. [00:51:30] And so we then have the one-to-one coaching. I'm gonna try and put together a bootcamp that includes the, the, uh, the tall ship adventure experience and the challenge coin kind of thing. [00:51:45] So, so that's, that's what's sort of ahead for me over the next period of time. I am giving myself 12 months Okay.
To, to get that up running and, and in place. And if it's not. Then [00:52:00] I'll pull those sales down and think about what I'm doing next. Okay. Yeah. I love it. Um, yeah, try it, see how it works, invest time into it, and then if it doesn't work, yeah. Where do you pivot or what do you change? That's great. Yeah. David, [00:52:15] I really appreciate the, the time you've given me today.
Uh, you know, if listeners want to connect with you, where should they go to connect with you? Absolutely. So they can find me on LinkedIn as you did. Uh, David Campbell [00:52:30] business coach is what you're looking for. You can go to, to one of my two websites. So the first one is gym events.com au, so that's GYM getting you moving events.com [00:52:45] au.
Or you can go to my standard normal website, which is david-campbell.com. Okay. Wonderful. And we'll include those links in the description for the show as well. Again, David, thank you. I've really enjoyed this [00:53:00] conversation and your time today. It's been fun. Thank you very much for your time.
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