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Welcome to Choose Your Struggle Presents: Made It, Season 1: Stay Savage. We're almost done. Sarah is back in recovery and beautiful things are happening in the lives of everyone.
Choose Your Struggle Presents: Made It, a documentary, serial-style podcast telling the story of a person who has made it back from the depths of trauma and created something extraordinary with their second chance.
Season 1 is titled Stay Savage and focuses on Sarah Laurel and the harm reduction and recovery housing organization Savage Sisters.
* This transcript has not been edited. Sorry, I ran out of time!
Made it made it made it as a member of the shameless podcast network previously on made it it's a lot easier when you're a heroin addict for people to just say, well, it was the drugs. It wasn't, the drugs is what helped me get better. Cause it's when people started saying Sarah needs. You want the truth?
Fuck. Here we go again. So I knew something was wrong. If he dies first, choose your struggle presents made it season one, stay Savage. Hey, y'all it's me. Your. I want to break in real quick and give a shout out to all my friends over at the new book's network, it was founded by Marshall Poe to highlight under the radar new books.
And you can listen to interviews with authors on the topics of history, science, religion, music, and so much more. All the hosts are interesting people in their own, right as well. And I should know I'm a host on the drugs, addiction and recovery channel, and I think it's pretty damaged. You can learn more at their website, new books, network.com or by searching for new books network, wherever you get your podcasts, check them out today.
I needed rehab, not for any reason, but I needed to not have to try and muscle through being a leader and being in charge and being there for other people I needed to be able to just be, and, um, Going to rehab did that. It separated me. And it was also just being honest, you know, I needed to honestly say like, I, I need help.
I definitely didn't want to do it. Cause I was so angry and like, it was so humbling, but I did it, it kind of sucks that the best help that was available to Sarah at that time was rehab. As you heard her say. The drugs weren't really the problem. Sure. Her use had slipped back into misuse and was becoming problematic, but that was a response that was a treatment for the way she was feeling in life.
At that time, if we had better mental health care, if it was not so hard to find help when your issue is a struggle with mental health, maybe that would have been Sarah's avenue, but that wasn't available to her here for someone who's under-insured, it's especially hard to find mental health. And it's hard for anybody.
No matter your situation at the time though, Sarah, wasn't the only one struggling with this issue of finding the help they needed. Remember when we last left off with Charlie, he was sent to Arizona. Let's catch up with Charlie. Welcome to episode nine of choose your struggle presents made it seeds in one state, a Savage.
I lasted like maybe a month in a sober living. My vitrol shot wore off and. Within 30 minutes of deciding I want to do it. I had heroin in my hand. I just kinda did, started doing like the tr the treatment, sober living shuffle there. Like his sister, Charlie was struggling with his mental health, but that's where their similarities ended.
Well, I first got out to Arizona. I didn't really want to be sober. It just seemed like what everyone else wanted me to be doing. And I should probably try it because I was pretty minimal. I just wasn't really like willing to do all of the things that were suggested of me to do, like, not steal my roommate's Gabapentin and like, not learn how to smoke black tar heroin off of 10 foil.
Uh, but like I, like, I knew it wasn't sustainable. I just, it was my only coping mechanism. I was in an entirely new environment, stressed the fuck out, feeling like I had like very little support, pretty much by choice. Cause I could have been calling home and I went to the only coping mechanism that I knew.
Uh, and I kept going to it. I would slowly get like more and more time away from drugs, like 30 days and then 60 days. And then 60 days again, huh? I just got eight months, one time. And like life started getting deep. And I was like, oh, this is cool. And then I found out I was having a baby. I got real stressed out, started getting high again and just a whole cycle.
And when you're stuck in that cycle, very little will honestly pull you out, but everything else will just send you to the. My daughter came into the world. And like I had thought before she came, like, that'll be fine. I'll have someone else to like live for. And I won't want to get high. And like, unfortunately that's not the case at all.
Uh, I missed her birth because I was dope. Sick. I left the hospital. Didn't even copped up. Like I tried to, and it failed, which is just terrible. I became homeless, uh, out in Tempe, Arizona, and it was new year's Eve. I want to say it was new year's Eve 2018 going into 2019. I was my friend, let me sleep in his car for the night, which was like in the parking lot for like an AA clubhouse.
And I see all I've been in and out of AA and Arizona for a couple of years at this point. So like, I'm seeing all these people, I know, like lighting off fireworks in the parking lot and like having fun. And I'm sitting in this car with the seat down real low, like trying not to be seen. Um, just smoking meth and like doing cotton shots, which is just like residue shots of heroin, just trying to get well, and I'm fucking miserable.
I see all these people that like I know, and like, I like some of them and they're having, they seem like they're having a way better time than me and this rehab I had been calling and trying to get into just to get off the street called me and they're like show up by 10:00 AM tomorrow. And like I go in and there's this dude that I had known from AA, I had actually lived with him in sober living at one point, started calming to the rehab, just to like see me and check on me and like being a genuine friend, um, and like giving me something to look forward to like bring me cigarettes.
And like, we would just sit there and talk for like an hour at a time. Feeling that support was, was super dope. Actually, this is kind of where I reconnected with Sarah too. Cause I'm like, I didn't sleep the first 10 days I was Eric. Cause I was coming off as Sri's I was coming off meth and I was coming off heroin.
So I'm out of my fucking mind. And like I called Sarah and I guess she was, she was doing this average thing. I was I'm telling you I was fucking crazy. I was like having auditory hallucinations and I thought the ceiling was caving. Um, but that's like when we started talking again and I was like, could hear how well she was doing, even as committed as you was Charlie's time and sobriety would be short-lived.
I got. I got like an AA sponsor. This guy that kept coming to see me, like I started like doing the AA puff staffs with him and like I got high one last time, dude, I was in a sober living. I went, I saw Dan, um, the, the man, my friend that that was sponsoring me and I went to leave his house from doing step work and there was a boss going, um, that was most going one way on a bicycle, on the other.
The one way, it was back to Gilbert where my sober living was. And the other way was to south Phoenix, where I knew where to get heroin. That's where I've been running around and like split second decision. I like went and I, dude, I only bought like a dime a and like a clean syringe. And I went back to my sober living house and I, uh, for some reason, got naked and locked myself in the bathroom and shot up on the toilet and ODI.
And luckily my roommate, boss it down the door and shoved the nice skew up my ass and put me in a cold shower, which brought me back for some reason. Uh, he didn't know there was Narcan in the next room over. Um, but I survived. I went to a psych ward for a couple of days, just so that like, I didn't pick up again in that, like give myself a little safety net.
The sober living took me back and I like, I, I didn't want to get high anymore. Uh, I saw that, like I saw clearly that like I was bad at. And I was gonna die. Cause I only, I only shot half that bag. So I shot $5 worth of heroin and died. This ain't for me, I'm not, I'm not going in the heroin hall of fame.
I'm getting cut from the team after Charlie's latest, near death experience, he was especially motivated to try to find recovery. We're going to pick back up with Sarah's story here because she too was back in rehab and thinking differently about herself and her place in the world. Here's Sarah, I didn't do details.
So normally, if you do like 21 days of rehab, you do like five to seven days of detox, but I didn't detox. I just went right into rehab status and I'm pretty sure I like manipulated my counselor to let me out like a couple of days early. So I was like, I hate that here. I didn't talk in that rehab at all.
I didn't, I wasn't the friending people. And a couple of people knew me from AA and they knew me from Savage and I was embarrassed by that. And the first day that I walked through the door, one of the texts thought I was there to speak. And I was like, so at that point, like I wasn't there to do anything except listen.
And I did, I was very, very quiet and I was also super sad. Sarah took the time to focus on herself. But as it never is her learning wasn't over. When she walked out of the rehab doors, I was like, I'm going to go back to Savage. And they were like, no, that's not a good idea. So then I was like, I'll go to this other recovery house.
And then finally I was like, I'm getting my own place. Like I'm not living with other people. I've this is what I do for a living. Like I'm not doing it. And I got this little studio kind of apartment in Kensington on Frankfurt and Somerset. And everybody was like, why in God's name? With 30 days sober. Are you getting an apartment in Kensington?
But I didn't feel I wasn't coming off of this horrendous run where I was like in a wheelchair and like never, you know, never experienced sobriety. I really didn't want to get high. They didn't do the things that I thought that it would do for me. And I just wanted to work and go to meetings and like get back on the path that I was on.
And. All right. So this is one of those moments I've been looking forward to the entire show I've been promising you that we're going to end on the upswing. I've been saying that from the beginning, even when I lied about the shape of the show, I still told you we're going to end on an upswing. Well, this is the start of one of those upcoming storylines and that's with the introduction of a guy named Tom.
After Sarah lost Pete. I know you're probably thinking, all right. There's no chance that this ends happy for her in terms of any sort of relationship stability. Well, I don't want to ruin the ending, but let's just say that Sarah defied the odds. She was only a couple months out of this recent stint in rehab.
When she met Tony. My first memory of Sarah was at the last stop, which for those that don't know is an AA, N a clubhouse in Kensington. People can walk in off the street and get clean there if they so choose. My old sponsor dropped me off there to detox cold Turkey, which I did. And at that time, Sarah had a close to two months clean.
And she was, uh, had moved to the neighborhood and was going there for meetings. I remember I probably met Sarah before I was actually coherent and like really coming off to stuff. But my first vivid memory is of her sitting at the main desk in between meetings at the last stop that the, the, uh, AA or N a speaker would speak at.
And. You know, she had her, she had a feet kicked up on the desk and crossed and, uh, you know, I thought she had like a little attitude was the first impression I was like, man, look at her. She's she's kinda just, I almost, I don't want to say arrogant cause that has a negative connotation, but just extremely confident maybe.
And, and didn't give a shit either. And uh, I like that. More after this break. Here's this episode's podcast recommendation brought to you by great pods.
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if you're not one for romantic comedies, say the notebook or a LA LA land, or I don't know, another one of those movies where a guy sees a girl and girl see his hand, but later, and then yada, yada, yada, they fall in love and I'm standing in front of you professing. I don't know whatever they said in the notebook.
I didn't see it. If that's not your movie. If you're not here for 500 days of. You can skip this episode because we're really going deep into that. This is the romantic comedy episode. Anyway, it took a little while longer for Sarah to notice Tony Eddie Z ran the last stop. It's a clubhouse, it's an AA clubhouse.
And, um, he always had these, like, it's basically like a homeless shelter, but. And I never really put my personal opinion into it cause I was there for meetings, you know, and one day I walked down to the last ups. I needed to get some furniture from the house, this average house in the basement, all my stuff was still in the basement, other than shit that I had just kinda grabbed.
And I was like legit sleeping on the floor of this place. Like after working in tiling, I would just come home and sleep on the floor. And I was like, I want to get my bed, you know? So I went down to the last album. I was like, yo, Eddie, let me get two dudes in your truck. And I'll give him $50. You know, like they got, I gotta move this bed and dah, dah, dah, and Eddie, you know, he's got all these guys that live at his place and he points to dudes and he goes, you and you go with Sarah, Sarah, buy him a pack of cigarettes and a hoagie and make sure you fill my truck with gas.
And I was like, all right, I got you. And it was Tony like Sarah, this was not Tony's first attempt at entering Ricard. I have been to several rehabs detoxes. Uh I've I've tried to kick cold Turkey on my own at home, just countless times so much so that I had an entire process that, you know, I had my anti-diarrhea meds, ibuprofen.
I had towels on my bed and next to my bed so that if I did sleep and was sweating, I could wake up and just put fresh towels on the, on the sheets. And. I could get 6, 7, 9 days. And then eventually the lack of sleep would always, uh, I would always go get more, more, which was never just one more. When I was 15, I got drunk, like every other kid, my age and my grade was doing on the weekends.
And, uh, you know, it was fun. It wasn't like an aha moment that you hear in alcoholism and addiction, but it. Part of me over and, and that was my main focus. I didn't care about anything else. I went to the party and I fit well in with my family. We've come from a family of heavy drinkers, people that take pride in the volume and amount that we can drink because of that.
I kind of flew under the radar for many years. I had wisdom teeth coming in at one point. Uh, I remember I just, I couldn't even eat and I was missing. And I went to the dentist, they wrote me a prescription for five milligram Percosets. And that was really, that was my aha moment, uh, towards the opiates.
And you know, it didn't stop. It didn't stop. And five milligrams to 1530 Oxycontin and heroin and fentanyl eventually. Uh, and you know, intervenous use. That was my introduction much like Sarah, the depths that Tony reached in his struggle with addiction grew increasingly dark this time. However, his attempt at entering recovery was different.
I was, I was so miserable and I tried to kill myself twice in my addiction is because I couldn't stay. The sound of my voice, myself, the disappointment that I brought to my family, and I just wrote myself off from all these things, a house, car job, my brother, my mom, my dad, just being any type of successful, any type of like fruitful relationship in my life.
You know, wife, children that was not in the cards for me. And I accepted that. And.
I let it all go. And I just, I was all right with dime. The other thing that was different was, was the guys at the callbacks, the other men that were living there was probably 13 of us at the time. It was just the first time that something was attractive to me and not. Well, Tony, you should go to rehab.
You should go to AA meetings. Like, go fuck yourself. Don't tell them what to do. But being around these guys who, whatever reason cared for me and like, look, they looked out after me, call me on my bullshit, which I wandering out the door, go get a sample. We're going to tone. We're going come back. And, uh, but they were happy and like, they were tan.
They weren't fentanyl gray, like. And they looked good and they sounded good. And like there were live, they were live. And like, I was just so close to being dead and, uh, I was literally ready to just close my mouth and open my ears and just show me anything else except for this misery. We'll be right back.
If you guys want to learn more about Savage sisters, check out www dot Savage, sisters.org. If you'd like to hear more from me and Sarah specifically, please reach out to info@savagesisters.org, and we can come speak to you, your organization, your business, or your place of worship on Narcan, trainings, harm reduction, trainings, or anything in general with Savage sisters.
If you want to donate, please go to seven sisters.org sponsorship. There, you can find a plethora of ways to give directly to our cause and help our mission. Additionally, you want to come volunteer at an outreach. Please reach out to info@savagesisters.org. So we can give you dates times and locations for our outreach events.
Thanks everybody. Stay Savage.
Hey, y'all it's Jay, the host of this show. If you're not really enjoying the series and you're just listening to make me happy, then thank you for the rest of you. I invite you to check out everything else. Choose your struggle does in the mental health and drug use advocacy. We have a couple of other podcasts and putting our incredibly popular weekly show called choose your struggle on that show.
I interview people with lived and learned experiences on the subjects of mental health, substance, misuse, and recovery and drug use and policy. But occasionally we talk about other topics as well. We also have an underneath show called choose your struggle presents Monday. But it's not just podcasts. We also host too vulnerable storytelling events, rock bottom storytellers in a day in the life on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, Twitch, and YouTube.
And now I'm so excited to announce that we'll be doing rock bottom storytellers live here in Philly, starting this summer. I also have a book coming out, hopefully later this year. And I regularly traveled the country, telling my story. And speaking about these important topics. I know this is all a lot, but you can check us out at our website.
Choose your struggle.com and check out all of our podcasts, wherever you're getting this serious, just by searching for. Choose your struggle. All right. That's enough about us. Let's get back to the show.
They weren't allowed to go to outside meetings. Like they were only allowed to go to these last stop meetings, which were like chaotic. And at times I, and I had gone to Z and I got permission to take them to a meeting that my sister chaired in center city. This. Sarah was an old pro in the recovery scene by this point and had connections all over town, including as she said to her sister, Liz, who is solidly in recovery at this point, because of this, she was trusted to help get some of these guys help.
And so every Saturday at 10:00 AM to support my sister's meeting and to just get them out of the last stop, because they were so like in this way. And it's like in Kensington. So it's soft. I would take like two to three people from the last stop with me and my car to center city and take them to a different meeting.
Tony came a few times. And I think one of the times he came, he heard me speak. I was speaking at the Subar cigar bar and then I took them to south street and I showed them like this, you know, there is stuff outside Kensington. There is meetings outside of the last stop where like the person telling their story has, is high currently.
You know, it was a little chaotic, well, Tony was enjoying getting to know this bad-ass he was suddenly seeing everywhere for him. These sessions were less about Sarah and more about an opportunity to get out and see other people in the world and just remind himself that he was alive. And at this point, you know, I've been in the last stop for like 30 days and I am dying to do anything else.
Like I'm like a dog. I want to go going for a car ride. I don't care where we're going. Take me out of here for two hours. And, uh, what's a cigar board meeting is centers. And, uh, you know, very small home group, but this is like proper traditional, very mature AA, or there's no big detox on the side here. And that was my first taste of like legit AA meeting to see what long-term recovery had to offer.
And, uh, that was attractive. That was attractive and put initially if I'm being honest, it was, it was just like, get me the hell out of here. This place is insane. I need anything else. It wasn't long. However, before Tony's mood started to change, little things would happen and I'd be like, I'm overthinking it.
You know, we went through this recovery walk and I walked down to her place because I was going to jump in and go to center city with her. But she overslept. So like I'm calling her, she's not answering. And like, by this point, I know that she's lost several people in her life to addiction and overdose and relapse.
And I have to, and like, I remember my heart dropping and then like this sick feeling in my stomach, because I'm calling her and like, this is like a big deal. Like Sarah is like Mrs. Fucking recovery. Like she wouldn't miss something like this, or like just not contact me. And, uh, I was so nervous and I was really.
It was like upset to the point that like, um, questioning I'm like, what the hell am I what's wrong with me? Like, why am I freaking out like this? And, uh, she was fine. She just overslept. But like, it was kind of like smack myself in the face moment or get the shit together. Like, where am I falling for this girl?
Like what the hell's going on much. Like Sarah's last attempt at romance and this one didn't start out that way, but it wasn't long before the two were officially dating heresay. I mean, I really wasn't looking for anything. I don't know if he was, but I wasn't. And, um, he surprised me. He's really smart and I love that.
And then I thought I was going to prison. So I asked him to move in with me so that he could handle my apartment if I got booked, because I had a felony warrant that I had to have. And it was this very awkward conversation where I was like, Hey, yep. You heard that right. Sarah's past struggles with the law, came back to haunt her once again, which for Sarah and Tony kind of sped up the relationship a little bit.
Luckily for Sarah, the family loved Tony. Here's my. He was very respectful when we, when we first met, did the whole handshake. Wasn't like, like some people do like yo men, like, yeah. Cause like I'm young and stuff and people are super disrespectful about that. Sometimes ageism, but he was very respectful, like as if I was an elder or like it was his honor to meet me.
I liked him. It was different with him. He was like a mess, but a put together. And so respectful and close to his family. And that was something family is so important. Obviously, admittedly, Mary was a little bit reluctant at first, but it wasn't long before even she came around. When Sarah told me, uh, about Tony, we went out to lunch, the three of us, and she said, what do you think?
Think take it easy. And I think he's a great guy. For me, I'm not that impressed with time in recovery. It's a spirit. I've seen people with 10 years sober who have such a horrible spirit. And I don't judge anybody's recovery, but I was impressed with his, his spirit. Well, they were incredibly excited of course, about this new relationship.
The couple made sure to set ground rules, especially as it related to their recovery. Here's Tony. It was agreed that if we proceeded that work Calvary's first and like that is first and foremost, after I got to know her brother and her mom and other people close to her, you know, I asked them, I was like, is this even all right?
Like, Wouldn't part of doing the right thing, be me just walking away because of Pete and like the trauma from that. And like, I dunno, you know, it had shades of like, are we doing the right thing? Is this too soon? And, uh, without the guidance from her family, And their blessing would that, that okay. And approval, I would have been willing to walk away when I still could have.
And like, you know, before it got even deeper, it wasn't easy, you know, neither of our pasts made anything easy. Um, but like at this point, I mean, we're stronger because everything has. For Sarah that early habitation, wasn't an emotional response. It was unfortunately a bit of a calculated risk. She knew what she was getting into and it scared her.
Luckily for her, the thing that helped her overcome these feelings was Tony himself. I was very hesitant. Um, at that point, you know, it was like, Oh, I was, I had a lot of walls up and I also like T this was Tony's first time in sobriety. So I'm like here, the fuck. I am again with this dude. I'm not getting, I'm not getting my hopes up with this.
You know, I was very detached from. As much as I could be. I mean, I, you know, he was great, but like, in the back of my mind, there was this constant whisper that was like, he's probably gonna die. And, you know, yes, I was invested in what we had and I, I honored him and I was loyal to him, but I was, I was aware enough that a, I was protecting myself.
I didn't think that it wasn't real. I just didn't think it there wasn't, it wasn't that I didn't think it was like an authentic emotion that we were experiencing together. I just, um, didn't know how long it would last. He does have a fucking way of just quietly. I don't know, making me realize certain things.
Or accept them while Sarah Antonia's relationship was solidifying and their bond was growing service. Other baby Savage sisters was growing as well with Sarah and recovery. And so clearly doing much better. She was handed back the reigns of the organization. And with that more people started to take notice that included the city of Philadelphia.
And finally, I get the honor to bring back the person you heard on the intro episode, destiny Campanella, who works for the city's health department, doing harm reduction, outreach, and work on the drug use community. Here's that? So I was also born and raised in south Philly where I still live. If you can't already tell by my accent.
Um, so I've been doing harm reduction before I even realized and knew what harm reduction actually was. You know, I was born into this for my family. I was born into a family. Used drugs sold drugs. People. I went to grade school with high school with, so I've been doing harm reduction within my community before I even really knew it was harm reduction.
It wasn't long after Sarah took back over Savage sisters that she, and the work that she was doing with the organization became something that destiny couldn't ignore. So early on, I became aware of Sarah. We were CC'd on a couple email threads, um, together. Uh, these were threads that had to do with, um, some community advocacy work around women, especially women living with trauma.
And then we just were friends on social media. I followed Savage social media page pretty closely. And I just remember thinking, oh, they're really cool. I really like what they're about for destiny. Not only was she excited that the organization was run by somebody in recovery. But she loved that Savage centered people who use drugs.
And as they say, meets people where they are. I say this all the time, even as my role as harm reduction coordinator, I am not shit. If I'm not talking to people who use. People who use drugs or they are the real experts not to discredit people in long-term recovery, because I have the utmost respect for people in long-term recovery.
But our supply is always changing at our team and health department. We make it a point to always include people who use drugs. We learn so much for them. I can study the textbooks all I want, but I don't know anything if I'm not doing the ground work. And I'm not talking to the people who are being directly affected by this because they know what works and they know what.
If you can't tell we're coming to the close, next episode, episode 10 is the last episode. At this point in our story, we're basically starting the pandemic, which while it may feel like a million years long, only started two years ago. So for the last time, I'm so excited to say next time on me. I had the claim, Sarah, for her.
I'm like, you don't have anything to, well, what are we doing? I'm like, don't worry about it. We're going to, we're just going to go for a ride. Your mind, like I, you can't have anything. Just tell them you can do it tomorrow. Thanks for listening. Made it. Season one, stay Savage is a chooser struggle production and a member of the shameless podcast network.
I'm Jay Schiffman or narrator producer, and founder of choose your struggle special. Thanks to Lauren Schiffman and Steve Schiffman for their help on this show, the theme song was composed by me and built on the song. All that by Ben sound, the made it theme you hear in episode 10 was composed by lettuce and Robert.
All interviews for this show were given freely and no payment was received by anyone for providing an interview for this show, all views expressed by those interviewed are their own. For more info, please see your show notes or learn more@chooseyourstruggle.com.