MSU professor heads to Washington

Host Alex Walters and senior reporter Theo Scheer discuss MSU law professor Adam Candeub, who wrote a chapter of The Project 2025 guidelines and will soon join the Trump administration.

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Alex: 00:11

It's Wednesday, February 19, and this is the nineteen o nine, the the state news's weekly podcast featuring all reporters talking about the news. I'm your host, Alex Walters. This week, an MSU professor goes to Washington. The College of Law's Adam Kandub will be the Federal Communications Commission's top lawyer in the new Trump administration. He made headlines last year for his work on the controversial political playbook known as Project twenty twenty five.

Alex: 00:36

And our guest today is the man who wrote those headlines and others about Candoob. Theo, welcome back to the show.

Theo: 00:42

Hey. Thanks for having me, Alex. Senior reporter

Alex: 00:44

here at the State News, and you've covered this. You wrote last summer about how this MSU professor was one of the authors of this thing that was, you know, being debated and making news all over the country. He's talked about at the national conventions and whatnot. Big part of the election, proud of 2025. Part of it comes from a man right here at MSU.

Alex: 01:02

And now you've written about this appointment. He's gonna be in the new Trump administration. You've kinda dug into his background, found some interesting things that we'll talk about in today's podcast. So, yeah, let's, let's get into it. But first, tell me about who is Adam Candoupe?

Alex: 01:15

What does he do at MSU? Who's this guy we're about to talk about for Yeah. A number of minutes? I'm not sure yet how many.

Theo: 01:21

Yeah. Adam Candoupe, he is a law professor at MSU. I think works, specifically, he is the director of the intellectual property information and communications law program. So he's a big name at MSU in the law department. And more recently, he's a big name in the federal government.

Alex: 01:41

Yeah. But so not just in the first Trump administration. He was also he was teaching at MSU and also involved in what was his role the first time around?

Theo: 01:50

Yeah. So the first time around, I mean, he had various stints, within, the federal government. In 2020 though, he broke his two decade teaching streak at MSU to work as the, deputy associate attorney general for the Trump administration's justice department. Yeah. And he was you know, before then, he had various legal positions in in DC.

Alex: 02:14

So he's both worked in the federal government in policy, and now he's an academic who kinda studies that kind of thing and writes about it in theory.

Theo: 02:21

Yes. That's right. He he teaches, several introductory law courses as well as, I believe, at least he used to teach a course on conservative thought in law.

Alex: 02:30

I see. And is he a practicing attorney too?

Theo: 02:34

Not actively. I don't think. I see.

Alex: 02:37

But you wrote in one of your stories about the suit in 2018 that he took off. Right.

Theo: 02:40

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In 2018, he did, have a job. He he was representing, actually a prominent white nationalist, a man named, Jared Taylor.

Theo: 02:52

And in a suit against Twitter. Basically, Twitter banned his profile, and he, sued them. And, yeah. Later, the case was dismissed. But, yeah, sort of an interesting thing there, 2018.

Alex: 03:07

Yeah. Back in the day, Twitter used to have content moderation. Right. Wild West. But, yeah.

Alex: 03:12

Well, so tell me about then, what is this over the last couple years, he gets involved in project twenty twenty five. And I'm guessing most listeners of the 19 o nine have heard this thrown around in, you know, the debate last year around the election. It was much talked about. Could you tell me actually, like, what is project twenty twenty five actually, not the way it's kind of described in these partisan fights? And what was his role in taking this heat?

Alex: 03:33

You know, what did he do to be a part of it?

Theo: 03:36

Yeah. So Prudential twenty twenty five, it's a, over 900 page, blueprint. It was made by a conservative think tank called the Heritage Foundation. Basically, you know, think tanks all over they're basically preparing, this is before Trump was actually elected, for the potential next Republican president. And so this think tank compiled a lot of different authors, to to write chapters on sort of each federal agency, how they would want it to be changed during, should should another Republican be, elected president, presumably Trump.

Theo: 04:13

And yeah. So so Candu was was one of several, authors of this of this thing. He he wrote a chapter on the Federal Trade Commission, basically arguing that, the should set up a a task force, for example, to investigate businesses that are using, like, DEI initiatives, and, economic, social, and governance initiatives, to sort of like ESPs. ESPs.

Alex: 04:45

All around in a vitriolic way.

Theo: 04:48

Kind of as as a means to, you know, whether those those practices amount to to unfair trade basically.

Alex: 04:57

So, like, his kind of idea that he had pitched Yeah. Prior to 2025 was using the FTC to kind of rid the private sector of DEI in the same way that, you know, Trump has now tried to do that within the federal government. His idea was the FTC would do that within the private sector through its kind of enforcement mechanisms.

Theo: 05:12

Right. And also, sort of the idea that these private, companies have some sort of social responsibility to not invest in weapons manufacturers or fossil fuel industry. Right? That's what kinda ESG is about. That there's kind of these these guidelines, these moral guidelines that should be in place.

Theo: 05:27

He argues that, you know, the the purpose of a business is to to make money, essentially. And you shouldn't have these things complicating it.

Alex: 05:36

Yeah. So that

Theo: 05:36

was his big argument, you know, as long, with, regulating the online privacy of children, you know, kind of, regulating the contracts that they might sign with big social media companies. You know, when you sign up for Instagram, for example, you have to sign something, and a lot of children are signing these waivers that, yeah, they are reading. So he wants more, oversight over that. So yeah. Yeah.

Alex: 06:01

And what did you know, you talked to students in the law school about, you know, when Project twenty twenty five last summer was the subject of so much debate. Mallory McMorrow is up there at the DNC with her big printout of it, making fun of it, and it's in these negative attack ads about the evil Project twenty twenty five agenda. What did, like, law students think about having a professor who actually wrote part of this thing that people were talking about all over the country?

Theo: 06:21

Yeah. I mean, they didn't like it. The Student Bar Association, so basically, kind of like the undergraduate student government of the law school.

Alex: 06:29

Yeah.

Theo: 06:30

They actually, passed a bill kind of denouncing his involvement with it. They say that project twenty twenty five is kind of runs counter to MSU's own principles. You know, it has a very heavy, aggressive stance on on, LGBT, issues, you know, immigration, DI, as we've as we've mentioned. Things that MSU publicly so they they argued that his involvement on it is kind of runs counter to that. And and they, signed a resolution saying that Candoob should, basically disavow many of the harmful, ideas in in that, document.

Alex: 07:10

So they they they weren't necessarily specifically taking issue with the chapter that he wrote about the FTC Right. But other, you know, some of these more kind of extremist chapters throughout the document.

Theo: 07:19

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

Alex: 07:20

And what about students who actually so that's like the undergrad student government. Right. Students who just had him as a professor. What's this guy like to be in class with Adam Candoob?

Theo: 07:27

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think it's well known, you know, you look at his Rate My Professor, and I've spoken to students who said this, directly to me, that he's he's known for kind of his his edgy wit. One describes it as, as non PC language, things you can't really say in class. But in general, they people really do like him as a professor.

Theo: 07:45

That he's, you know, open minded. That he has views of his own that he does, definitely he's a good teacher. I think one student described it well. You know, said that, you know, overall, he's a good professor, but I do know his politics are kind of insane. And I thought that was a good way of of summing it up.

Theo: 08:04

The the students might disagree personally with what he he believes, but, generally, he's respected in the department.

Alex: 08:10

I see. And that quote has been cited in national media now. It's a great It

Theo: 08:14

has.

Alex: 08:14

Kind of a funny little turn of phrase that student came up with that you talked to.

Theo: 08:18

Right. Right. Shout out Ben Smith, I guess.

Alex: 08:21

Dude. Oh,

Theo: 08:22

yeah. Yeah. From Semaphore.

Alex: 08:23

Yes. He cited you.

Theo: 08:24

Right. Yeah.

Alex: 08:25

I was so confused

Theo: 08:26

for something. But tell

Alex: 08:28

me about this. So what the tension over Project twenty twenty five Right. Was that, like, this think tank goes off and comes up with this thing. Mhmm. And Democrats are saying, look at what Trump did.

Alex: 08:38

Look at what he wants to do. If you vote for him, he's gonna do all this stuff. Trump tries to distance himself from it and says, guys, this think tank came up with this. What I wanna do is my official platform. I don't have anything to do with this project twenty twenty five stuff.

Alex: 08:50

The counter to that was Democrats saying, well, the people that wrote it are people that, like, floated out of your first administration and are inevitably gonna float back into your second administration. He disavows that. Adam Candoupe, kind of a perfect example of that exact thing. He worked in the first Trump administration. Right.

Alex: 09:07

He went back to academia. He writes this chapter of Friday 2025. Now, what what is his new job gonna be? What does it mean to be the general counsel of the FCC? And explain too, FCC, FTC, similar terms, confusing.

Alex: 09:21

Theo, tell us what are all of these acronyms and what is his job gonna be? Right. I'm sure people I'm confused.

Theo: 09:25

Yeah. So FTC, FCC, different things. The Federal Communications Commission, basically, you know, your radio, live TV, broadcast, stuff like that, they all rely on on on the airways. Right? The electromagnetic spectrum that's going on above our heads right now.

Theo: 09:45

And that sort of airspace is regulated by uses those things, even if it's a private, you know, TV station that doesn't have direct, isn't under direct control of the government, it's still using kind of a government resource, and therefore, it's subject to some regulations. And the FCC is the one that kind of oversees all of that.

Alex: 10:05

One of the lucky folks to get to use this public airspace.

Theo: 10:08

Yeah.

Alex: 10:08

FCC is watching what you're doing. Exactly. To regulate it.

Theo: 10:12

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's about kind of communications in general.

Theo: 10:15

So it applies in different areas. And what's what's interesting about this, about his appointment is that, Adam Candu, he's another one of of several project twenty twenty five contributors who, are now have big spots in the federal government. I I think, you know, the architect behind Project twenty twenty five and the think tank behind it, he was recently appointed to the, Office of Management and Budget, which has been in the news recently. So it's kind of, you know, Trump definitely tried to distance himself from this from Project twenty twenty five when it was first gaining this this traction controversy. But now that we're seeing a lot of of the the the proposals in it are being implemented, a lot of people behind it are getting roles, and this is just another kind of example of that.

Alex: 11:02

Is there a project 2025 plan for what to do with the FCC? You know, Brendan Carr, who's the commissioner of the FCC, has become sort of an outspoken figure. What what can people expect about Trump's FCC? What is Adam Kinndu walking into? What's their kind of mandate or mission?

Theo: 11:17

Yeah. I mean, I think that, what we've seen the FCC do in just this this first few weeks of the Trump presidency is a good indicator of of the direction that it's going. I mean, under the direction of of Brandon Carr, they've done several, you know, pretty big measures. You know, for example, they're, launched an investigation into NPR. They ordered the release of this transcript of, sixty Minutes interview with Kamala Harris.

Theo: 11:44

This is the subject of a lawsuit that Trump is involved in. You know, they also ended their promotion of DEI. It's very it's going down a particular path, and, it's clear that Adam Can Do is is on board with that seemingly.

Alex: 11:58

Well, I mean, Trump is an outspoken foe of the media. He is not or I guess he sees the media, but foe is his of him. He, I think, sees the FCC as, like, a way to enforce that. And, like, he was pissed that CBS cut that Kamala Harris interview the way that it did, and he sued them over it. Right.

Alex: 12:15

And so now he's got that FCC going after them. You know, ABC settled. I wonder what would have happened to them had they not settled. Right. And I guess part of the thing with CBS too is this idea that, like, Trump is using the FCC pressure to put, to kind of, like, put the screws to CBS to settle with him in this civil lawsuit against them.

Alex: 12:33

And, like, it's very much becoming his enforcer in his kind of war on the media. Right.

Theo: 12:37

It's also, I think, the FCC, especially Adam, Candoob's role in it, is expected to go after kind of big tech. You know, section two thirty is something that protects social media companies for liability for what their users post. So, you know, if you post something, that might be subject to a lawsuit or whatever, it's you who are being sued, not the the social media app that you've posted it on, right, under this this section two thirty. But, you know, Kinu has has expressed willingness to open, to to sort of rearrange how that that law works and open up social media companies to more regulation.

Alex: 13:16

The social media companies could be held responsible for what people post on them? Yes. Is that his idea?

Theo: 13:21

That's his idea. That's the direction that he's going.

Alex: 13:23

Well, tell me about him, because I I I've seen it framed in some places that, like, this is, like, within the spectrum of people in the world of Trump and Project twenty twenty five. He's, like, relatively reasonable or moderate. He's, like, a lawyer. But, you know, you did this story just this week about all these emails that you got through FOIA with him. Just kind of like talking about his politics, but in these email exchanges that were on his MSU emails, so you could get a hold of them.

Alex: 13:48

Tell me about, like, what does this guy think of Trump? Is he is he loyal to Trump? Does he have questions

Theo: 13:53

about Trump? Yeah. Yeah. So emails I got through public records requests, definitely show his alignment with the president. So for example, you know, a colleague of his shared an article with him, a kind of a legal argument saying that Trump wasn't, constitutionally qualified to run again to be president, because of what happened on January 6.

Theo: 14:15

Colleague shares this this this argument with him, and he responds, b s. And then the colleague responds, hardly. And then, he responds again, there was no insurrection. There's a political demonstration to protest a crooked election that got out of control. So he calls the election crooked.

Theo: 14:33

He kind of defends January 6.

Alex: 14:34

He's got a couple of them there. He's saying January 6

Theo: 14:36

Mhmm.

Alex: 14:37

Was not an insurrection, and he's got crooked election Right. Which is largely a disproven claim, this idea that the election was stolen, but one that Trump and some of his allies have continued to push.

Theo: 14:46

Right. So very much what Trump is saying. In another instance, you know, he, a MSU communications staffer passed along a media request after, Trump's indictment in the election fraud case in Georgia. Right? This was in 2023.

Theo: 15:03

And, a local TV station wanted to interview him about it, or or somewhat about it, and they they went to him. And he responded that he's happy to tell bullshit. You can say bullshit in

Alex: 15:17

the nineteen o nine because we are not on public airwaves, and the FCC can't find us for that.

Theo: 15:22

Exactly. It's an FCC joke. Right. Right. A little bit of a

Alex: 15:25

meta because Adam Jahnemann is gonna be the general counsel of the FCC, so I'm joking about.

Theo: 15:29

Right. Right. Real listeners will will get it. Yeah. Yeah.

Theo: 15:33

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And another one, and this is, I think, you know, one of my favorite examples.

Theo: 15:40

He shared a news article, in again, in 2023 about a group of Republicans who prayed over Trump as he was at a campaign stop in Iowa. And in the subject line, he wrote, god bless Iowa. So he's very clear so he's very clearly, you know, loyal to Trump. And I I would say expected to sort of carry out, continue to carry out as the FCC is already doing, his his wishes.

Alex: 16:07

I so any any sort of framing in, like, national media about Adam Can Doob is, like, sort of like a moderate and whatnot, or any sort of, like, kind of check and balance on Trump's power as a lawyer for the FCC. Based on his emails, he's pretty into everything that's going on. Right. Right. Yeah.

Alex: 16:21

Exactly. Well, Theo, great reporting on an MSU professor who's making it big in the federal government. That's all for this week. We'll be back next week with fresh reporting from the great minds here at State News. And until then, the stories we discussed by Theo are available at statenews.com.

Alex: 16:35

Thank you, Theo, again for coming on, our podcast coordinator, Taylor, for everything you hear, and most of all, thank you for listening. The nineteen oh nine. I'm Alex Walters.