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Elite Heat is the All Elite Wrestling podcast for fans who want more than just a recap.
Every week, Tim and Doug — two AEW fans who've been All Elite since day one — react to AEW Dynamite and Collision, break down the latest storylines, analyze the characters driving the product, and give you their unfiltered take on everything happening in All Elite Wrestling.
From weekly show reactions to PPV breakdowns, roster moves to long-term booking analysis, Elite Heat covers the full spectrum of AEW. No fluff, no filler...just two passionate pro wrestling fans who care deeply about the product and aren't afraid to say exactly what they think.
New episodes drop every week. Subscribe and join the conversation.
Tim (00:01.188)
What did I just see?
Tim (00:08.141)
What did I just see?
Dug (00:09.804)
I don't know. Here's the thing. You can't say they don't surprise us.
Tim (00:13.103)
I don't either.
Tim (00:19.244)
Yeah, I had a feeling that that might happen tonight because of that, we'll talk about it when we get there. Let's get into tonight's dynamite. The first one post dynasty, which was a great show. So I was going into this very optimistic thinking like, they're going to ride that wave of momentum here. And you tell me if they did or not. So we open with MJF and Renee. Now I missed the very beginning of this, which I think tempered some of my
Dug (00:30.082)
Yep. Yeah!
Dug (00:39.489)
Okay.
Tim (00:48.632)
reaction to the segment. I mean, he's great, but here, here's go ahead. So when I turned it on, it wasn't super far into it. He was still in the parking lot with her, but like he was clearly talking all over her and she was trying to talk to him and tell him, I guess what was going on, but he wasn't listening. And then Don Callis came out and I watched that interaction.
Dug (00:51.598)
Okay. Where did you come in at?
Dug (01:11.406)
You didn't miss anything. All you missed was her saying that AEW has been trying to contact MJF every hour on the hour for the past three days, and it's been radio silence. It's dynasty. That's all you heard.
Tim (01:14.416)
Okay.
Tim (01:23.856)
So, but that's why I say, but that's why I say I think it tempered some of what I felt about the segment because here's, I'm just gonna read it to you. Cause I wouldn't say I did stream of consciousness, but this is my notes. It was basically real time what I was thinking. I don't buy that MJF somehow didn't know Darby won and was wrestling him to start the show.
Dug (01:31.256)
Gotcha.
Dug (01:47.565)
Okay.
Tim (01:47.578)
So I missed that setup that explained how he somehow didn't know. I still don't love this segment, but I'll finish the recap of it before I get into the why of it. So then we go into Darby versus MJF, or do we?
Dug (01:51.16)
Gotcha.
Dug (02:02.552)
Well, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Let me go back to the interview because I really, really liked it. I really liked it. I liked the interaction with Don Callis. I liked them going back and forth. I liked Renee losing her cool and telling him to just shut it basically and telling him I liked him blowing a gasket. I liked, I put very good segment. I personally, for me that tripped a lot of triggers. Maybe it was just my...
Tim (02:08.132)
okay.
Dug (02:31.168)
ADHD dopamine receptors that it was hitting on the mark, but I liked this segment a lot. I thought it was a different way for them to open. Do you have to suspend a fair amount of disbelief? Absolutely, but it's wrestling, so I didn't care. And Don Callis was in it, and MJF was brilliant, and I liked Renee being different for the first time in a while, being like, assertive. So I really liked that. And then now we do go right to the ring with Darby and MJF, maybe.
Tim (02:59.514)
Yeah, the reason that I went right into that is in my mind, this is all one segment because it would roll into, yeah, they would do the introductions and everything, but really it's still a promo segment that feeds off of that interview with Renee. So that's why I rolled it all together. Now I didn't explain that so you didn't know that, but so they do their back and forth where, you know, MJF is of course saying, I'm not gonna do this and
Dug (03:05.282)
Gotcha.
Dug (03:13.304)
That's fair.
Gotcha.
that's fine.
Tim (03:28.368)
Darby got super emo. And by the way, I don't know if you know this, Darby climbed Mount Everest. I feel like they should talk about that.
Dug (03:37.71)
Huh. They should like throw that in a video package once in a while or something.
Tim (03:41.52)
They should, or mention it roughly every 30 to 45 seconds, give or take.
Dug (03:46.496)
Okay, you know what, that might not be enough, but let's start there and work our way up.
Tim (03:51.533)
Right, I think, you know, that's our baseline and we adjust from there. So you gave your thoughts on the segment. Let me be clear, I get where you're coming from on it. I don't have a problem with any of the performances here. I thought in a vacuum, it's not a bad segment. Here's my issue with it. I don't think you needed to do it. I think you could have had Max come in and go, I'm not wrestling him tonight. I didn't agree to that.
Dug (03:53.782)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Dug (04:07.662)
Mm-hmm.
Tim (04:19.136)
You know, you could have had him still do the line about like, my back hurts, I wrestled for almost an hour against Kenny Omega, I'm not doing it tonight, and then still bump it to the main event, which, you know, my initial thought was, why is this not the main event before I knew where we were going with it? So I think you could have done all that and you could have just left this, he for three days somehow avoided every part of the world, you know, I mean, because...
Dug (04:26.103)
Mm-hmm.
Dug (04:34.776)
Right.
Tim (04:47.748)
The faulty premise of it to me more than anything is that also implies that he didn't pay any attention to the match at dynasty, which happened like a good hour before he went on, if not hour and a half before he went on. So.
Dug (05:00.75)
He did tell Renee that he was prepping to wrestle Kenny Omega. So no, he wasn't paying attention to any other matches. oddly enough, I broke them up into two. I liked the first half a lot. I liked this opening segment. I really did. thought, yes, it's a bit unbelievable. But to me, it felt very MJF to be like, why would I care who else wrestled? Why would I pay attention to the?
I know I'm the champ. Everything revolves around me. I was fine with that. I thought his promo was really solid. I liked Darby's short promo of, I've never been more ready than right now. Let's do this. Let's go. I liked it.
Tim (05:46.374)
That's fair. I said, in a vacuum, I don't necessarily have a problem with it. And I think I missed just enough for the beginning, because I didn't hear him say all of that stuff, that it hurt this segment with me. It felt to me a little bit like we're doing kind of a goofy storyline for the sake of doing a goofy storyline, when I just didn't think you needed it.
Dug (05:58.627)
Right, gotcha.
Dug (06:08.312)
Okay.
Dug (06:11.736)
That's fair.
Tim (06:12.261)
That was my only thought on it was I didn't think you needed to do all that and it felt, it just felt wonky to me. The other thing I thought on this is to me, this is further proof that they really need the onscreen authority figure because having Brian Danielson or Tony Schiavone go, I just got a message from Tony Khan. Like you have Christopher Daniels do it. him, yeah, have him be that guy.
Dug (06:32.226)
Yeah. Thank you. was just gonna say.
Send CD out and tell them, here's the deal, guys. Yeah, I do not know why they don't do that.
Tim (06:44.963)
Yeah, I don't either. Like I understand not sending the actual, you know, the the wrestler EVPs out. I think that makes sense. But Christopher Daniels has a I'm going to say corporate position for lack of a better term within the company. Like he's fairly high up in the company. So just send him out there. Give him some whatever title you want to give him. I think they need that.
Dug (06:52.215)
Mm-hmm.
Dug (07:05.836)
And they've kind of skirted around that a few times with him, but never fully committed. and even if it's not him, there's someone who I will wait until the end. There's someone that came out at the end that I didn't know was still around that I think would make a great on-air authority figure in this type of situation. And that is my tease for the end of the match. End of the night. Thank you. Thank you.
Tim (07:31.173)
I was just, that is a good tease. That is a hell of a tease. All right, well done. All right, so obviously we'll have more thoughts on this, but what.
Dug (07:36.739)
But yeah, but all in all, I actually really, really enjoyed this. And here's what I'll say, because this kind of sets up the theme for the rest of the night. This was, I felt a fairly promo heavy dynamite, which I think it's because my gut tells me this got a little more life than it deserved because they needed the time and they knew they were going to go 15 minutes over and they didn't start the main event. If you notice till like nine one. So.
Tim (07:49.657)
Yes it was.
Tim (08:04.099)
Yeah, I did notice that, yeah.
Dug (08:06.85)
there's that. So I get the feeling that they were kind of padding everything in this. I was very entertained by it. I really enjoyed it.
Tim (08:14.797)
Okay, let's put a pin in that because again, I think a lot of things that we're talking about here are now going to feed into when we get to the actual main event. And we're going to come back to a lot of this. We'll put a pin in that for right now and circle back later. I hope this email finds you well. More corporate speak. All right. Maybe I should be the onscreen authority. Just be corporate boy. They could even call me that.
Dug (08:35.246)
Dude, that would be great! Corporate Boy! CB!
Tim (08:39.481)
I would be, I would be so on board with that. I would heal it up like crazy. my God. my God. Tony, I know you listen. Yeah.
Dug (08:47.022)
Speaking of which, have you watched any TNA Wrestling?
Tim (08:51.917)
No, I don't have access to it.
Dug (08:54.734)
That's fine, but what? Oh, former former don't do that. Former WWE wrestler. What's her name? Deville something Deville. She's there and she goes by the suit and it stands for shut up. I'm talking. She just comes out and says shut up. I'm talking. I'm the suit and I was like.
Tim (08:57.241)
I mean, I guess I could pay for something probably and I would, but.
Tim (09:04.762)
yeah, Sonja,
Tim (09:14.723)
That's incredible. That is incredible.
Love it.
Love it. Love it. Anyway, moving on. Yeah, so then we got a I guess you would call it a backstage from Sunday that starts with Tony trying to talk to Kenny, then he goes into the training room where Osprey is and they emo it up. I literally put down is anyone not emo tonight because we started out very emo. I think the only thing missing was my chemical romance playing in the background.
Dug (09:24.3)
Yep. So anyway, back to AEDom.
Dug (09:33.592)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Dug (09:41.89)
Yeah.
Dug (09:52.863)
there we go. I don't...
I'm confused as to what the point is with this.
Tim (10:00.741)
I agree. I put down, and this was tempered a little bit by, I should have had it up to have the person's name, but on TikTok today, well, I'm not gonna go try and find it now, but I've been having quite the exchange with a guy, we're just talking wrestling, it's been super fun. And this person,
I said a guy I don't even know. didn't click into the profile. So my apologies. This person said, that they think Kenny, you know, may very well be retiring within a year. And so that, I think that was in my head as I watched this segment and my other thought on it besides the emo was they are talking about Kenny, like he's done way too much for my comfort. Cause I'm not ready for that. I'm not prepared for that.
Dug (10:37.902)
Mmm.
Dug (10:52.728)
Yep, same. No, no, I don't, and I don't buy it 100%. Like I just, I'm not, and so that's why I'm confused with this. Look, I get them commiserating because of the injury thing, which I harped on when we did our recap of Dynasty, because I didn't like both of the baby faces using injuries as kind of the reason they lost. But I did kind of like, okay, they're bonding over this, they're consoling each other.
Tim (10:59.097)
I don't think I do either.
Dug (11:21.326)
They're talking about their past together. I liked that, but then it got that weird turn of, don't know if I've got it anymore, kid, but you do. And I'm gonna be, know, this weird rocky moment. And I just, I don't know. It's not landing well with me. I put solid, but question mark because I don't know where this is going. And I just don't know. I mean, if this is again a way for Kenny to get his...
Tim (11:33.209)
Yeah.
Dug (11:50.799)
his momentum back, get his groove back, I don't know.
Tim (11:57.987)
I don't either. I mean, that was one of the things we asked on the dynamite show was what is next for Kenny? Where does he go from here? And I don't think that got answered tonight at all. There's not, yeah. The answer was the training room. I mean, there was no, there's not even a breadcrumb of something. You know what I mean? Where we could look at it and go, okay. I think maybe they're setting blank up.
Dug (12:07.404)
No, no, the answer was, we don't know.
Dug (12:17.41)
Nope. Nope.
Dug (12:23.118)
Mm-hmm.
Tim (12:25.562)
I don't know what to do with that. I don't know what to do with that whole segment.
Dug (12:29.952)
No, like I said, it just left me feeling, okay, I'm okay. Okay.
Tim (12:36.654)
Yep, I would agree with that. Yeah. So then it was Champa and Desmond Xavier of the Rascals. I almost called them the Radicals again there, and I even have it right in front of me. It says Rascals, but anyway. Really good match. Really, really good match. I like Champa's promo afterwards. I have no problem with him saying that.
Dug (12:44.194)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's okay.
Dug (12:53.718)
Yeah, solid.
Dug (12:59.288)
Why?
Dug (13:02.708)
Everybody's, I wrote down, well, he's calling out the champ now and it wouldn't be the last time we heard that in this show.
Tim (13:11.266)
No, and there's a theme going back like two months now and my my
hesitation with it is the word I'm gonna go with, is not just that, okay, I've seen this movie now for a couple months of anybody who's even remotely near the top of the card is gonna call their shot. But it also underscores that on one hand, you've got the good problem of you do have a lot of people that you can credibly say,
Dug (13:26.04)
Okay.
Dug (13:34.232)
Mm-hmm.
Tim (13:51.673)
are in the title picture, which is why I say I have no problem with Champa saying it. On the other hand, it means you haven't properly built a contender.
Dug (14:02.584)
Yep.
Tim (14:04.13)
And I don't understand why they're doing this where just everybody is gonna call their shot and not build a proper contender, particularly because as we have been talking for a while now, all in looms. Like every second of every day you get closer to your biggest show of the year.
Dug (14:17.453)
Mm-hmm.
Tim (14:31.724)
who's gonna be in the title picture at that point? Because right now, I think throw a dart in whoever you hit. It's like, yeah, okay.
Dug (14:38.26)
Mm-hmm. I actually wrote down promo after calls out Darby and MJF If it goes like it has been he should get his shot in two weeks Because that seems to be how it goes it's like alright, we'll see champa Wrestling for the heavyweight title in two dynasties or on a collision
Tim (14:49.434)
I agree.
Tim (14:57.414)
I'm half surprised they didn't make it for tomorrow night's collision, which I should say tonight when this episode comes out, it'll be Thursday, but I'm half surprised they didn't do it that way.
Dug (15:05.388)
Yes. Yep. Well, I think I know I have an inkling as to possibly why, and you will hear that at the end as well.
Tim (15:16.408)
I mean, I understand why they didn't. I'm just not, there's, it's more than a little bit of surprise that they didn't do it. You know what I mean?
Dug (15:19.534)
Now I have a very specific reason why I don't think they did it.
Dug (15:26.368)
Understood. Yep, understood.
Tim (15:28.482)
So the other thought that I want to get out there before we move on from this match is boy it would be cool if the rascals got in the trios picture.
Dug (15:37.538)
Thank you. Thank you.
Tim (15:38.682)
be awful cool. They do something with them.
Dug (15:41.485)
Mm-hmm.
Tim (15:43.396)
Speaking of the title, then it was the video package for the title match. I don't think we need to a lot of time on those. Then the FTR promo.
Dug (15:56.887)
Here's what I said. They say Cage and Cope won't get another title shot while they're champs. Okay, there's a lot of that going around it seems. Then they called out everyone and said there's no one left. Right? They did a weird moment of silence for Christian and Cage or Cage and Cope. They had a 10 second post. Thought that was very funny. And what I wrote down was I was stunned.
Tim (15:57.093)
My big takeaway is, sorry, you go first, you go first.
Tim (16:08.976)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Tim (16:20.174)
I liked that, yeah.
Dug (16:25.452)
when they said no one was left, that no one came through the curtain. Stunned. I wrote down Don Callis family, death writers, nothing, nothing, nothing.
Tim (16:29.872)
Same. Same.
Tim (16:36.538)
the young bucks private party. So when they first started saying there's no one left, I said out loud in my living room, heard syndicate.
Dug (16:48.45)
Thank you, yes, but no one.
Tim (16:54.308)
Nobody came up. Yeah.
Dug (16:54.534)
And the announcers didn't mention anyone. They didn't go, well, that's nice, but you you forgot about blank, you forgot about blank, you forgot about blank. You know, they could have went up and down the roster, but they didn't. They said nothing. So that's why I felt like tonight, that's when I started going, wow, this is promo heavy and they must not have much of a plan set yet for tonight's show, or it's not enough wrestling. One of the two.
Tim (17:19.95)
Yeah, don't, I would agree with you on that. Very promo heavy, not a lot of matches, which usually they're the other way around. It felt like they were saving everybody for something, but I don't know what, because whatever it was didn't happen tonight. My only thought on this particular promo was because they specifically said New Japan and CMLL is I thought, are we gonna start a super early build?
Dug (17:27.755)
Mm-hmm.
Dug (17:36.875)
No.
Tim (17:47.791)
with FTR for Forbidden Door because they announced the show and the location today and the on sale date today. And it's going to be at the end of June. So I thought, well, maybe they're going to start that. And FTR is just not going to be on double or nothing, which feels a little bit like a mistake to me, but you can survive it, right?
Dug (18:05.236)
Mm-hmm. Yes. Or you can throw someone in there as a film match to keep them in the face. that's actually probably what is going on. They probably are waiting for a CM, maybe a three-way dance with a CMML team and a New Japan team.
Tim (18:10.597)
Yeah.
Tim (18:22.694)
Probably, probably. But again, it just felt, it felt a little bit like when my dog farts, where now it's just in the room and I don't know what to do. Like the promo's just there.
I don't know what to do with it.
Dug (18:39.796)
Yeah, yeah, that's a really good way to... Yep, I can't say anymore.
Tim (18:43.298)
Also, I don't think that Stokely knows the story of David and Goliath, by the way.
Dug (18:49.324)
Yeah, I thought, okay.
Tim (18:50.342)
Cause one of them loses and it's not anyway, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, moving on from the dog fart. then we got Claudio and your boy, Kevin, Michael Knight for the TNT title.
Dug (18:55.291)
It's always Goliath. Dingleberry? Come on.
Dug (19:02.979)
you
Dug (19:10.318)
Can I ask a question before we even get into this? Why is Claudio getting the title shot? Has he even wrestled a singles match on dynasty?
Tim (19:12.89)
Yes.
Tim (19:19.568)
that he has not been on, he's not done any match on Dynamite for quite a while. It's okay, those are easy to confuse. He hasn't done one for quite a while. And I didn't even know he had dropped the CMLL title until I found that out this evening.
Dug (19:24.332)
or dynamite. Thank you.
Thank you.
Dug (19:40.942)
Yeah, I think he did that a little bit ago, because I think the last time he was in a tag match, he didn't have the belt either. But I honestly don't know or care.
Tim (19:42.99)
I guess.
Tim (19:47.557)
I don't know. Yeah, but he hasn't done a singles match in a long time. I thought it was odd. I believe they announced that on dynasty and I thought it was odd that he got the first shot, especially cause I, maybe this was the justification for it, but wasn't he the only death rider that wasn't in the gauntlet match for it? Besides mocks who obviously had things going on. What?
Dug (20:10.478)
I thought he was in the gauntlet map. Was he not in the gauntlet map? I thought he was in the gauntlet map.
Tim (20:15.044)
I don't think Claudia was. Yuta was, Dani Garcia was, and I think Pac was.
Dug (20:20.194)
Right? that was it. It was packed. Yes, not audio. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right.
Tim (20:23.366)
Yeah. So maybe that's the part of the justification. I don't know. It it it look, here's what I'll say about it. From a storyline perspective, it doesn't really make sense. However, this might have been my match of the night. They were really good. I thought they were really good. Yeah, I came away from it thinking if Kevin Knight gets better on the mic or they get him a really good mouthpiece.
Dug (20:35.009)
No it does not.
Dug (20:40.268)
They were solid. That was a solid match. Solid match.
Dug (20:52.877)
Mm-hmm.
Tim (20:53.446)
I thought the way he looked in that match and the way he's looked lately, this is a guy that I could now see as a world title threat. Which is good, cause... Yeah.
Dug (21:03.684)
yeah. And...
That's the number two heavyweight title call out we got of the night. And I was like, well, you got to get in line because in two weeks it's Champa. So I guess you have to wait three to four weeks before you get yours.
Tim (21:18.276)
Yeah. But to be clear, I can see him as a world title threat down the line. I don't know that he's there right now. But really good match. Potentially my match of the night. I liked that too. Jet Two Belts has a good ring to it. He was absolutely right about that. Only other thought I had on this was I missed the red TNT belt.
Dug (21:29.066)
No. But I did like Jet2Belt as a name. I did like Jet2Belt. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Dug (21:44.65)
Yeah, you're right.
Tim (21:45.849)
I liked red. I liked when it was red. I thought the TBS one should have been blue, like the TBS blue. I miss that. I think about that periodically when I see it. Please. Then Jericho came out. Another promo. However, I will say this of on a promo heavy show, this might have been my favorite promo.
Dug (21:51.544)
Mm-hmm.
Dug (21:56.483)
Hear that, Tony? Fix it.
Dug (22:04.108)
or look at another promo.
Dug (22:12.622)
It was really fun.
Tim (22:13.782)
I thought he was really good here, man. It was feeling like the Jericho of old. I think that the time off did him a lot of good, not just physically, but I think it just really gave him a chance to re-energize. I really enjoyed him here tonight.
Dug (22:29.834)
I agree. I really liked it. But it left me with questions once again. Because I thought...
Tim (22:35.503)
And those are.
Dug (22:37.842)
once again, someone was going to come out because he was like, look, Rick Bald, come down and fight me right now without your goons bald. And so he did. And of course, they came down anyway. And I thought for sure someone was going to come out. And I wrote down, that looked like a great opportunity for a Sammy Guevara return to Dynamite.
Tim (22:59.642)
Yeah, yeah. It does feel to me like we're going to get another Jericho faction, which is now why I think it won't happen. Because I think there are two things in play on that. Number one is AEW right now seems pretty locked into we're gonna swerve you. Whatever you think is gonna happen, we're gonna go the opposite way.
Dug (23:08.942)
Probably.
Dug (23:12.812)
Mm-hmm.
Dug (23:25.09)
Yeah.
Tim (23:28.94)
Even if it isn't necessarily the best decision, that's what we're going to do. Cough, cough, hangman, cough.
But the other part of that is Jericho, regardless of how you feel about him as a person or where you think he's at right now or whatever, everybody can agree this man has been the king of reinvention. And every time he comes back, there's always something a little bit different. Sometimes it's dramatically different, but there's always something different. And this is a guy who has been the faction guy in AEW.
Dug (23:55.374)
100%.
Tim (24:07.428)
Which is what makes me think Jericho might be saying, Nope, I don't want to do it. I don't want to do it. I'll fight these guys three on one.
Dug (24:12.354)
And that makes sense. And he doesn't have to have a faction, but it just was shocking that literally no one came out. And again, you don't have to have them hang for the rest of eternity, but it'd nice to see Sammy Guevara on TV again, you know, use Big Bill again. I don't know if their falling out wasn't bad. left on, you know, so.
Tim (24:26.47)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah, big bill. Yeah.
Tim (24:35.3)
Yeah. I mean, the...
Dug (24:36.822)
It was just, it was fine, but I was again, surprised by the lack of someone running out because almost always in wrestling, if there's an opportunity for someone to do a run in, they absolutely do it.
Tim (24:41.819)
Yeah.
Tim (24:47.654)
Yeah, I agree with you. The only thing in my mind as to why maybe they didn't do that is because you do still have some time between now and double or nothing. And I think clearly we're not finished with Jericho in the demand, so you've got some time to, if you're gonna do a, you know, a trios match there, figure out who the other two are and bring them out over the next couple of weeks. And that might be playing into it. I don't know. I don't know.
Dug (24:58.584)
Mm-hmm.
Dug (25:15.843)
Mm-hmm.
Tim (25:17.904)
But otherwise, I thought it was pretty good segment.
Dug (25:20.098)
Yeah, I liked it.
Tim (25:21.722)
Then we got the another video from Sunday of Okada, Takeshita and Don Callis backstage. Quick. Good. I really liked Takeshita here. I thought him mocking Okada was really good.
Dug (25:32.547)
Mm-hmm.
Tim (25:41.444)
made me pretty optimistic since I was saying, I think you really need to turn the heat back up on this feud and really get it to a boil again between now and double or nothing. I thought that was a good first step for it.
Dug (25:52.643)
Yeah, I really liked it. And again, him apologizing and saying it was an accident was hilarious to me. So really, really liked that bit.
Tim (25:59.524)
Yeah, especially, yeah, and especially because of how he played it of like, it was an accident, you know, really good, really good stuff. Yeah, yep, yep, really good stuff. Speaking of really good stuff, then Ospreay and H.E. Cedro, who is apparently now the new CMLL champion, I learned that tonight.
Dug (26:07.016)
Mm-hmm. I'm so sorry. Yeah, right. That was very good. Very good.
Dug (26:19.053)
Yep.
Yeah, I didn't know that either. What did you think of the super tight shot of Don Callis' mouth during the intro?
Tim (26:24.981)
Tim (26:28.965)
They started doing that before H.E. Sarah went away. Cause he H.E. Sarah hasn't been on for a while. They started doing that a little bit. I don't love it. But.
Dug (26:33.902)
I
Yes.
Dug (26:42.614)
I don't remember it, but it made me laugh tonight.
Tim (26:45.571)
Well, here's the thing, I don't love it because I just like, I don't know, there are certain parts of the body that gross me out a little bit and that's, yeah.
Dug (26:52.82)
I don't want to see it, but it may entertain me and I love it.
Tim (26:57.765)
Well, one of the things that I put down in my notes is Don's intro for H.E. Serow is always great. And it is. It's always great when he said Super Nintendo and, know, it's I love it. I love everything about it. I don't need the close up of the mouth, but, you know, it's fine. It's fine. Again, I thought this was a really good match. This was another contender in my mind for match of the night. Yeah, I don't I mean, I thought.
Dug (27:08.422)
Funny. It's good stuff. Very good stuff.
That's fair. That's fair.
Dug (27:22.264)
same.
Tim (27:26.851)
The Mark Davis run in at the end was good. I think they're doing a really good job keeping him looking strong. I no notes on this one. Good job.
Dug (27:33.23)
I just wrote great damn match, one armed, styles clash. So good. That was so good.
Tim (27:42.597)
Yeah, yeah, yep. And I mean, look, the one thing I guess I'll say about it is that might be in the con side of things is I get it, Osprey, his neck, got it, but strap in, because that's gonna be the storyline for a while, is everybody targets his neck.
Dug (27:58.575)
Mm-hmm.
Dug (28:02.592)
I. Is it weird that I'm already a little bit over that bit of it because.
Tim (28:08.27)
No, that's what I'm saying is like, I didn't say it in those words, but you should have just telepathically known that that's what I meant.
Dug (28:14.07)
No, I mean I do, but like I am kind of over it already. Like I'm kind of...
Tim (28:17.614)
I am, I'm over it, I get it. Broke his neck or whatever, had to have it fused, career threatening, got it, got it. Yep, covering him in the, yeah, covering him in the tape, got it, got it. But strap in, because that's what we're gonna be doing for a while. We're just gonna have to deal with it. I suspect.
Dug (28:25.368)
Yep, we get it. Hurt his neck real good.
Dug (28:31.31)
Mm-hmm.
Dug (28:38.766)
Then we had yet another mini promo segment with the Willow recap.
Tim (28:43.79)
Yeah, I was just going to skip over that quite honestly.
Dug (28:46.796)
just wanted to make sure that we knew that there was yet another promo thing that led into another promo, which I actually enjoyed.
Tim (28:53.41)
I did too. I thought Teclo was really entertaining here. Yeah.
Dug (28:57.902)
Yep. Yep. I said on Dynasty that I felt like they finally started showcasing her the way I felt like she should and could be showcased. And I felt like this promo was the first real Tecla promo we got. It showed her as being just don't give a crap. No one can beat me. I'm the best, yada yada. And when she said, I didn't get fired from Japan, OK, I got fired from Japan.
Tim (29:26.01)
Yeah. Yeah.
Dug (29:27.672)
Come on, that was, I just thought that was a really good promo. I Alec Windsor coming out. I liked that exchange, set up the match for collision. The con I would say is once again, Sisters of Sin get handled by one person and made it look easy.
Tim (29:46.119)
I've, yep. I agree with you that that's the con. The other con I will say is I don't know why you spent time building up specifically the team of the brawling birds. And now they're doing their own things like, yeah, there's still a team, but they're doing their own things. And it, it's got the women's tag team championships completely out of the picture and completely in limbo to the point where, you know, a couple of years ago, if you remember, I guess it's been more than a couple now when
Mercedes and Naomi walked out of WWE when they were the women's tag champs. Like that was part of a time where my thing was if you, the worst position in the company was to be the women's tag team champions. And AEW is headed that direction right now. Now they got time to turn that around, but we don't see them.
Dug (30:17.806)
Yeah.
Dug (30:30.232)
Mm-hmm.
Dug (30:36.728)
Yep. But I was just going to say, as is evidenced by tonight, the champs weren't anywhere to be found. And I think their title wasn't their title defense on zero hour, not even on the main pay-per-view.
Tim (30:50.308)
Yes, it was. Yep. And it wasn't announced. It was just like, it was one of those ones that they shoved in there to make sure they get to 18 hours of wrestling.
Dug (31:00.942)
It's not too far off either. Right?
Tim (31:02.32)
It's not. I'm so tired. Still from Sunday I'm so tired.
Dug (31:08.802)
Exactly. Exactly.
Tim (31:11.76)
Hey, what did we get then?
Dug (31:14.158)
Camille versus Willow. But, we got a promo again. No, they announced Camille versus Willow, which I wrote down, and then I wrote down, first, a Mox promo, which... Okay.
Tim (31:15.706)
We did, which actually, actually, no, you skipped something. Yep, you skipped something.
Okay.
Tim (31:29.412)
Yeah, that's how I felt about it too. I put down in my notes, okay, but a little bit on the weird cryptic side again. Okay. Okay.
Dug (31:37.291)
Mm-hmm.
Dug (31:41.13)
I enjoyed how he had a conversation with Marina Shaffir and she didn't say words.
Tim (31:48.283)
Yeah, there were no words, somehow, yeah, yeah, that was interesting. Yeah, so yet another promo. And then Camille and Willow, I don't know about you, I thought Camille was gonna win.
Dug (32:02.1)
I kind of did too. It would not have shocked me. I missed part of that match because of my dog. Not much, but just a little bit. But before the first commercial break, thought Camille looked a little awkward and a bit slow. The last half of the match, I thought she looked better, but I was really shocked at the...
backslide finish because it wasn't a very dominant finish. It wasn't a very dominant win. And you made Camille look so strong on Dynasty and she gets beat by a backslide.
Tim (32:34.426)
Yeah. Yeah, I would agree with you on that. think. I think there was a couple of things to play there. Number one was the long layoff for Camille because, she looked good on Dynasty, but that was a squash, you know, I mean.
Dug (32:47.576)
Well, yeah. I mean, yeah, it was a backstage beat down, which is what they wanted. And again, that was great. But yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tim (32:51.204)
Right. But then she did the squash on zero hour, which yeah, but again, it's a squash. So now you're in a, at least somewhat legit match, even though Willow's, you know, kayfabe hurt, I think. I don't think she's legit hurt, but I don't know.
Dug (33:00.366)
Mm-hmm.
Dug (33:09.134)
I don't think so.
Tim (33:12.844)
I understand, I think the narrative that they were trying to get over here, I think the story they were trying to tell is Willow's shoulder is messed up, but she still finds a way to win. They tried to make Camille look dominant because my thought on this match was Willow bumped her ass off for her tonight. She bumped like crazy for Camille. I mean, really good job there.
Dug (33:34.424)
She sure did. That is very accurate.
Tim (33:42.886)
I thought Camille looked, think, a little bit better than maybe you did right out of the gate. But look, I mean, she was gone for more than a year. Like, my...
Dug (33:52.013)
Yeah, I'm not judging because everyone has an off night and maybe it was just one thing that made me think that it, because I don't think she looked terrible, but I think there was one move in the corner that I thought, ooh, she's looking a bit slow and awkward. And I think that's just stuck as opposed to giving the whole thing the credit it was due.
Tim (33:56.346)
Sure.
Tim (34:01.135)
No.
Tim (34:11.184)
That's fair. I get that. I get that. I mean, that's kind what we do around here. We be nitpicking. But yeah, but overall, I thought this was a good match. I think that there's legs to this feud. I'd like them to keep it going. We'll see what they do next week.
Dug (34:16.492)
Yeah, absolutely.
Dug (34:24.898)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Or tomorrow.
Tim (34:32.91)
Or tomorrow, yeah. And then another promo and another one that made me go. OK.
The Sheetah and StatLander promo.
Dug (34:42.602)
I missed this promo. This is when my dog actually made me take him outside. He distracted me during that match, but then he was like, nope, I need to pee right now. I was like, all right, fine. So I missed it, and I didn't come in until the very beginning of the next match. So I totally missed that.
Tim (34:46.47)
Okay.
Tim (34:52.997)
Okay.
Tim (34:56.588)
Okay, okay, so here's what happened. She did all the talking. It's a weird, like, it's one of those where clearly she's a heel, right? Like clearly she's working heel, but she's being like almost over the top. And like, obviously she doesn't think she's a heel, you know what I mean? Which they never do, right? MJF is the only one who knows he's a heel, right?
Dug (35:12.003)
Mm-hmm.
Dug (35:22.722)
Right. No.
Tim (35:28.344)
It just was weird because it was her like being super like aggressively.
enthusiastic, like just way over the top and Statlanders just kind of stand in there and then she does like and it's going to be great because we're in a team together again tomorrow night on collision. And then and like she said stuff in Japanese. Which may very well have just been her saying, I like your shoes, I don't know. And then she leaves and they just put the camera on stat who just looks at the camera and just kind of like she didn't say a word, but just kind of non verbally is like.
Okay, you know, so I don't, I don't get it. The only thing I can think is that at some point in the next two-ish weeks, something's gonna snap there and it's gonna set up them probably a double or nothing, but I don't, okay.
Dug (36:07.48)
you
Dug (36:24.054)
I mean, at the pace they're going, she's going to turn on her tomorrow. mean, they've been not subtly teasing it at all, but it's definitely in the works and it's going to happen.
Tim (36:27.749)
Schmied Schmied and
Tim (36:36.569)
Yeah, it just, was a little weird, but okay. Then we got the old man Sting appearance. Yes, we did. Yeah, you missed it. So Renee was like walking, they were backstage and Renee was like walking with Darby going like, know, it doesn't get any bigger than this. And then Sting walks up and Sting was great.
Dug (36:39.181)
Mm-hmm.
Dug (36:43.566)
Night. Oh wait, did was he there too before that? Oh OK, I missed that too. Oh man.
Tim (37:03.737)
He was legitimately great because he was like, know what time it is, right? And Darby's like it's showtime and sting goes no It's your time go out there and show them what you can do. Go take it go go take like sting was great Sting was fucking sting. You know what? I mean, like he was great even I mean it was sting like even though it's old man sting like it was like Tell me he couldn't go right now. He could
Dug (37:16.129)
Nice.
Nice.
Dug (37:24.266)
It's staring!
Dug (37:33.9)
He definitely could.
Tim (37:34.213)
He absolutely could if he wanted to. So then that rolled into the main event of MJF and Darby.
Dug (37:46.456)
Dude, I... Here's what I wrote. Two nut shots, four coffin drops, what the fuck. That's what I wrote.
Tim (37:46.595)
Are you kidding me right now? Like.
Tim (37:55.911)
Thank you. Here are my notes. You're kidding me. And then to have MJF get squashed, multiple question marks and exclamation points, this is a guy who has been arguably your most dominant champion in his two runs. And he gets squashed by a guy that with all due respect to Darby Allen. Look, we talk about him a lot on this show and how I'm convinced that the boy has no desire to be able to walk in the next 10 years.
Dug (38:12.856)
Yeah.
Yep.
Tim (38:26.744)
I couldn't do it, I don't wanna do it, I understand he does this all for art or entertainment, I get it. I'm not trying to be critical of the guy and I understand that you are who you are, you're as tall as you are, you're as big as you are. But this is a guy who right now, I'm fairly certain a stiff breeze would blow over and he just squashed arguably your most dominant champion.
Dug (38:31.864)
Yeah.
Dug (38:50.036)
Mm-hmm. Yep. After going to war with someone like Hangman and someone like Omega, I don't think this was a four-minute match. I think it was over and done in four minutes. And I wrote down, after I took a few breaths, I wrote, I'll give it to him. I was shocked. But then I wrote down, now, will he lose it tomorrow? Back to MJF on collision.
Tim (38:51.919)
What?
Tim (38:58.628)
Yeah. No, I, I agree. I agree.
Tim (39:13.03)
Mm-hmm.
Tim (39:20.666)
Well, I don't think so, because... No, I mean, I don't think so, because it's not an announced match that I'm aware of.
Dug (39:20.908)
because that is not going to shock me.
Dug (39:28.578)
Doesn't matter. You know how it goes. Here's my prediction. Collision starts with MJF again at the beginning demanding his rematch. And then he goes out and he beats the living crap out of Darby and takes the title back. That's my prediction. And that's kind of my hope. You had your big shock moment. Sting came out. It was great. And here is where the authority figure comes in. And it's not Sting.
Tim (39:30.862)
It's true. Yeah.
Tim (39:44.826)
That would be fine with me. That would be fine with me.
Dug (40:00.414)
I wrote down, holy crap, was that Colt Cabana? Because when he's there, he's just dressed in like a t-shirt and pants, but it's Colt Cabana. And when you started talking about an on-air authority figure, I'm like, use freaking Colt Cabana. What's he doing?
Tim (40:21.85)
Well, so I mean, you've got a bunch of these backstage, like you've got the producers and the agents, right? And Colt is one of those guys. Big Show is one of those guys. They use Jerry Lynn a little bit there for a while. He's one of those guys. I mean, I'd buy any of those three. I buy Christopher Daniels as the on-air authority guy.
Dug (40:27.052)
Mm-hmm.
Dug (40:36.45)
little bit.
Dug (40:41.588)
Mm-hmm. Although now that he's managing like... Scorpio... Yeah, Scorpio Sky Spiders or something. I can see not wanting to have him be that, but I mean, Cold Cabana, you would fire it.
Tim (40:46.374)
Sky Flight or whatever they're called right now. Yeah. Yeah. But you...
But you can easily break him off of that. Colt I would buy, you can easily break CD off of that. Madison Rain is there in a producer slash coach role or whatever they call it. I would buy her. Point is you've got candidates there that you could have do that and I think they need it. Going back to the match and everything that happened here. So.
Dug (40:59.362)
Mm-hmm.
Dug (41:06.348)
Yeah? Mm-hmm.
Tim (41:20.464)
My wife goes.
Dug (41:20.706)
We've already talked more than longer than the match went.
Tim (41:23.844)
Yeah, we have. My wife goes, I'm guessing by your reaction that you're not thrilled. And I went, no, I'm not. No, I'm not. And she does. And I was like, and I've said this before in the show, I think the time to do it, he should have been the guy that beat Mox. That was the time to do it because you had had him, the momentum was there, you had heated him up to the point where I would have, there was never going to be a day.
Dug (41:27.726)
You
Dug (41:32.002)
She knows you.
Dug (41:42.37)
Yes.
Tim (41:50.289)
where Darby Allen became world champion and I was gonna be like, yeah, love it. Wasn't gonna happen, okay? But at that time, I would have gone, okay, I get it, I get why you did it, I don't hate it. Okay, cool, cool. Mm-hmm, yep.
Dug (41:54.734)
Mm-hmm.
Dug (42:05.134)
They spent a long time on that storyline. It would have made sense. He wouldn't have had to keep the title long You could have given them a few good defenses and then have someone maybe mocks take a bat whatever but it made a lot of sense there and what I found interesting that he got it tonight and I thought this right at the beginning I was like I See why Tony is letting him have the title shot tonight because they're in Washington clearly it makes sense He likes to try and play to the local crowds with when he can
Tim (42:16.09)
Yep. Yep.
Dug (42:34.028)
But great googly moogly getting the title on him is, congrats. I was shocked. I was god smacked. But it's not going to shock me if he loses it tomorrow and he's a one day champ. And then you can make an entire storyline with that. And actually, if that's what they do, and they build that storyline out where down Darby does finally make that weird heel turn that we talked about maybe wanting.
Tim (42:41.178)
Yeah, I was shocked.
Dug (43:01.976)
then this makes sense to me. If you have that plan in play, then this makes sense. Otherwise, why did you do this to MJF?
Tim (43:13.008)
So here are my only, because I've been thinking about it since it ended, okay.
Here are my thoughts on how we got here. In hindsight, being what it is, I should have seen it coming because they started playing up too much about like, he's had three other shots and he couldn't get it done, which I don't even remember. I remember the four pillars match. I don't remember the other two times he had a title shot. So what's that tell you? But I was like, okay, I probably should seen this, especially when Sting showed up. I should have probably known right there that they're going to do it. They're going to switch the belt. They're going to put on him. Here's why I do.
Dug (43:37.262)
I don't either.
Dug (43:48.184)
See, and I missed that part, so I didn't even get that little bit of premonition, so, ugh.
Tim (43:50.32)
Right. Right. But here's my problem with it. And my problem with this is at this point almost less to do with Darby, even though this particular version of him at this particular moment, I have a hard time buying his world champion.
Dug (44:07.949)
That's fair.
Tim (44:08.973)
I think my bigger issue with it is A, you're bordering on hot shotting the belt, right? You're not quite hot shotting it, but you're flirting with it.
Dug (44:25.898)
It's not a trios championship, but...
Tim (44:28.537)
Right, but you're flirting a little bit with it. And my other concern here is that they did it solely to grab headlines during WrestleMania week, and that's not a good enough reason.
Dug (44:40.714)
No, no. mean, again, if this is part of a bigger storyline for Darby and MJF to play into the fact that he was able to, yeah, okay, the kid beat me once. On a night I wasn't ready. On a night I didn't know I was gonna wrestle. Guess what? I've had 24 hours, kid's gonna die and he takes it and destroys him. Then I'm okay with it. Then it all makes sense to me.
But just because it's in Washington and just because it's WrestleMania week, you're right. That's not good enough for me. And I'm sorry, AEW, you know you're my love and my... AEW got me back into watching wrestling on a regular basis because I had stopped. And I know we nitpick in this podcast. know we're... It seems sometimes that we're very critical of the product. It's because we care about it and we think about it and...
Tim (45:15.559)
It's not.
Tim (45:22.129)
Same. Same.
Dug (45:36.333)
We want it to be amazing, not that it isn't, because it's still, even though tonight we had a lot of question marks, I think tonight was a really good show. But I questioning this step because let's look back. You've taken Hangman Page out of the title picture, gone. Homegrown guy, the guy that was, you built from day one to be your champ, he has been.
Tim (45:44.839)
Mm-hmm. I agree.
Dug (46:01.802)
Kinda got handicapped with his title runs, never got a really, really clean title run. Now he's done. Kenny Omega could have been a really good person to dethrone the devil. Done.
Tim (46:14.279)
You took swerve out of the picture.
Dug (46:15.832)
Look, Swerve right out. And I guess he's filming stuff, so it makes sense we haven't seen him in a minute. But Swerve's out.
Tim (46:20.657)
Well, well, he's filming stuff, but he's filming promotional stuff for them is what I've read. He's filming promotional things. So it's not that he's doing a movie.
Dug (46:26.856)
I thought he was, I thought, no, no, I thought he's, it doesn't matter. He's, regardless, Swerve is out, right? And again, out of nowhere, Darby comes in and says, I want my title, I want a title shot. And I get the story behind it. Look, I've killed myself for this. I don't get a shot and I don't win, what's the point of what I've done? I understand that whole story. I really do. Could have taken some more time with it, but whatever.
Tim (46:32.047)
It doesn't matter. Yep.
Dug (46:56.098)
But now he's got the title out of nowhere and he makes beating MJF look easy. That should never be the case. And no offense, especially not from a Darby Allin. And I know that's what makes it seem so Herculean because it was Darby that did it. But we're already suspending our disbelief watching wrestling.
Tim (47:05.158)
I agree.
Tim (47:08.944)
I
Dug (47:21.774)
I'm sorry, unless this plays out into a better storyline, good for him. I'm never gonna crap on someone for doing their job. And he does it really, really well. I am a Darby fan, but I just, I want this to be worth it. I really hope it was.
Tim (47:21.937)
My, my.
Tim (47:28.581)
Yeah, good on you, man.
Tim (47:41.916)
Yeah. I agree with you. mean, I think one thing, too, that kind of showed that maybe this wasn't the moment for it when they had the faces come out at the end, like you referenced, that didn't. It didn't hit like I felt like even the crowd that was so behind him because it is his hometown crowd. I felt like they didn't even really pop that hard for that moment. And I get it like we've seen it.
Right. We've seen it a bunch of times before, whether it was when Mick Foley won or I mean, WCW had done it when Hogan got dethroned or what, you know what I mean? Like you're going for that moment. I get what Tony was going for there. It didn't hit because the baby faces got in that ring and they didn't even celebrate like, my God, we fight, you know, the devil is dead. They didn't even celebrate like that. They didn't pick him up and put them on their shoulders and all that crap. You know, it just didn't.
Dug (48:26.957)
Mm-mm.
Tim (48:40.539)
hit and you hadn't really built a storyline of MJF is invincible and everybody hates him and they can't wait for him to lose. You know, like that's why it mattered when like Hollywood Hogan lost when Foley won. That was huge because it's Nick Foley. Nobody thought he was beating the rock. You know, and it was huge and it was a massive pop and then picking him up and everything was huge. It just didn't have that emotional impact.
Dug (48:59.202)
Yeah.
Dug (49:02.893)
Nope.
Dug (49:10.442)
No. And if you remember, I even called it out when Darby first made his challenge, the crowd was silent.
Tim (49:10.597)
You know, and.
Tim (49:18.309)
Yeah, yeah, it just wasn't the moment for it. The moment was six months ago or however long ago that was. And you had time to build to make this happen at double or nothing. Now, I assume is when that's when they're going to run it back. My guess is that MJ, I mean, it's in New York. My guess is that MJF is going to demand the return match for double or nothing in what he's going to call his hometown, right?
Dug (49:45.164)
That may, okay, I'll live with that if he doesn't take it tomorrow. I'll live with that.
Tim (49:47.589)
That's gotta be where we're going.
Yeah, that's my guess. That's my guess. And the way you can make this interesting is now MJF has to torment Darby. Torment him. Like he can't be the kind of goofy MJF, the guy at the start of the show going, no, I don't know, what are you talking about? I didn't know, what are you talking about? You know, like he can't be that guy.
Dug (50:01.069)
Yes.
Tim (50:13.081)
It's got to be the intense version of him. Like he's got to, he's got to torment him. And if you do that, okay, now you got my attention again. Now that you don't have it now, but you know what I mean? Like now I'm a little more invested in this and now I'm a little more like, okay, cool. Let's, let's play this out. Let's see where it goes. I'm in. If they do the return tomorrow or next week or two weeks or whatever, huge missed, that's a huge fumble. If they do that, run this to double or nothing.
Dug (50:15.619)
Yeah.
Dug (50:23.246)
Mm-hmm.
Dug (50:43.094)
Like I said, I'm fine if he steals it tomorrow and they do this one day champ thing. Yeah. Or just, like I said, or just have and then have MJF just be like, Darb, you had your shot. You had it for a day. Congrats. Bye bye. You know? Well, and then if you want, then bring it back, you know, then at double or nothing.
Tim (50:50.929)
They WWE it up and just keep having them fight.
Tim (51:05.959)
But then who do you put in to double or nothing? Into the main event then.
Dug (51:11.414)
You know, put in the... Hell, we're... Everyone's saying you can't get another shot anymore, so tell him he can't get another shot as long as you're You know, have him do... Whatever. I don't care. But... I get... Yes. Now listening to a bit of reason from you, running it back in New York does... Will work. My heart wants him to be a one-day champ.
Tim (51:21.371)
Yeah. Yeah.
Dug (51:38.582)
and have that be his legacy and have MJF openly mock him constantly. And then you can have the tormented emo Darby try everything he can to get back and kick and claw and just try like hell to get another shot.
Tim (51:54.527)
I agree. I think that would have been more compelling. I think it would have been a more compelling storyline of if MJF had won tonight and Darby claws and scratches his way into the main event, a double or nothing, and you switch it there, I would have been more on board with it. I still wouldn't have loved it, but I would have been more on board with it because you could have developed that narrative more. It just, I don't, it, my concern is exactly what we.
Dug (52:07.182)
Mm-hmm.
Tim (52:19.056)
covered of you switched it because you were in Darby's hometown and because it's WrestleMania week and you want to steal headlines from them. And look, from a purely business perspective, I can understand that because everything I'm reading and I pay zero attention to WWE. Well, like you were saying, we nitpick AEW because we care. Exactly. If we didn't care, we wouldn't be doing this. You'll note that we don't bring them up very often because I don't care and I haven't for a long time. Yeah, and I haven't for a long time.
Dug (52:37.229)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Exactly.
Dug (52:45.088)
and I
Tim (52:49.08)
Everything I'm reading is that the build to mania has been terrible. Absolutely terrible. Like I've read that from a lot of people. Now somebody may hear this and disagree. Cool. I believe you because I've paid zero attention. I only know what I read, you know, on on the Internet. So if Tony Khan is looking at it going, I've got an opportunity on WrestleMania week to grab attention away from them when normally they're untouchable in that week.
Dug (53:05.902)
Mm-hmm.
Dug (53:16.428)
Right.
Tim (53:16.568)
I get it. I'm just not I get it. I just I'm not sure this was the way to do it. And I don't think that that's a good enough reason to have MJF going back to what you said about, you know, hangman's a homegrown guy and all that MJF's a homegrown guy. So going back to that, you know, you took that and I know you can say Darby is too, but. And he is, but you just took a guy in Maxwell, Jacob Friedman, who is I would argue your biggest star. And you you had him get beat in
Dug (53:34.423)
And he is.
Tim (53:46.744)
I think you're right, I think it was under four minutes.
Dug (53:50.199)
Well, again, two nut shots, four coffin drops, headlock takeover, pin, done. That's it.
Tim (53:52.378)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, I just trying to grab the headlines from WWE during Mania week is not a good enough reason to switch it. just it just isn't like you've still got to protect your product. And I'm not sure they did that tonight. Now, as you've been saying, there's a chance that maybe they've got a really good idea here and we'll see it play out over the next couple of weeks and I may change my mind. And I hope so, too. I'll be thrilled if that's how it goes. But as it sits right now.
Dug (54:18.902)
I hope so.
Tim (54:24.74)
I don't love this, man. I really don't.
Dug (54:26.574)
And just like you said, we aren't the business people in it, but who gets more eyes on the AEW product? MJF or Darby Allen? It's MJF across the board. Having Darby Allen be your champ. I'm not saying it's a terrible call. I'm saying the timing of that call.
Tim (54:39.6)
Yep. Yep.
Dug (54:52.468)
isn't the best and I don't know if now is when you want him being your guy. Like you said, six months ago, it's way more believable taking the title off mocks. Way more believable. Especially after other people made runs at it. You know, if you're not going to do let Orange do it, let Darby do it. It makes sense. He's an original. He's scrappy. This same storyline makes sense. Why have I been killing myself for this if I can't take it from you, John?
Tim (55:00.291)
I agree.
Dug (55:20.768)
then that makes sense.
Tim (55:23.61)
And that was his whole thing of, you know, one of us is going to die before this is over, right? Like, I mean, that that made so much more sense to me at the time. And I remember texting my friend Mike going, I think Darby's going to beat him. I think Darby's taking the title off him. And Mike going like, I don't love that even back then. But it made a lot more sense then than it did tonight. So I. I. I just don't understand it. And now you have to make a decision.
Dug (55:42.956)
Yeah, that's what I feel.
Tim (55:50.65)
And maybe they've already made it of either Darby has a very short reign and he drops back to MJF a double or nothing, or he's going to have to carry for a couple of months. Like he's probably got to win at all in as well.
Tim (56:06.543)
Otherwise, I don't know what the hell we're doing this for.
Dug (56:09.814)
Okay, let's say somehow he is gonna keep it for a minute.
Tim (56:14.778)
Mm-hmm.
Dug (56:17.152)
You can't tell me MJF isn't gonna ask for a rematch, because he is. So you're gonna have him beat MJF twice? Or are you saving that for when he finally drops? So you're gonna have him beat who?
Tim (56:20.123)
He is.
Tim (56:25.147)
Well, so to get...
Tim (56:29.797)
Well, I think, well, so here's, if I'm fantasy booking this, so let's play out what we know combined with what I think could happen here.
Excuse me. Number one, I don't think MJF gets the automatic rematch here because in theory, Champa's next. So you're gonna tell me.
Dug (56:52.77)
Well, okay, only because he said I want the shot. That's the only reason.
Tim (56:55.653)
Right. But let's play, okay, but let's go off of their history and what we've been talking about tonight, right, of how they've been doing this. So let's say that this is how it plays itself out. That next Wednesday, Max comes out and he demands his rematch and Champa comes out and says, you can have it, but you'll have it with me because I'm calling my shot tonight, right? So then Darby's got to go over Champa in that situation. Not sure I love that.
Dug (57:01.87)
Okay, that's, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Dug (57:19.658)
Yep.
Tim (57:24.677)
because now you're doing more damage to Champa, who by the way was a what 12 day champion. So we've got precedent here. I agree. I think they did him very dirty. And then you do it. Maybe you do the match with Kevin Knight somewhere in there, which means you got to have Darby go over him.
Dug (57:31.18)
Yeah. Yeah, and I think they did him dirty on that one too.
Dug (57:41.707)
Mm-hmm.
Dug (57:45.58)
and you kill his momentum because he's been crushing it.
Tim (57:47.368)
huh. huh. And then you now you can just solely focus on him and Max on the way to double or nothing. Probably the way to do this is to have MJF come out and ruin those matches. So it's not clean finishes. That's probably the way you do this. So then you get to double or nothing. And let's say that it's MJF and Darby in the main event at double or nothing. I mean, if the hometown argument is why Darby got it tonight, you got to put it back on Max, right?
Dug (58:04.245)
Mm-hmm.
Tim (58:16.901)
But if they don't, if they don't do that, and for reasons that I will never be able to explain, Darby Allen is the world champion going to all in because they're not, mean, he'll be in a match at Forbidden Door, but it's not going to be for the title, or even if it is, whoever he's facing is not going to win it. We know that. So. Well, I guess that's true. I guess that's true.
Dug (58:31.949)
Right.
Dug (58:35.502)
Well, no, actually, we don't. Not after tonight. And I'm not being, I'm not trying to be cute or trite. We don't know that now.
Tim (58:43.493)
No, you're right. Well, I'll tell you, I'll tell you the thing that would interest me a lot is if the if the title match is him and let's say Zack Sabre Jr.
Dug (58:53.272)
There we go. There we go.
Tim (58:54.981)
and you put it on ZSJ and he takes it into all in and then he drops to somebody. Now that I'm on board with. That I'm on board with. But.
Dug (59:01.752)
There we go. I'd be down to see Zack Sabre Jr. hold that title for a couple of pay-per-views. Because that would be, you want to talk about a surprise that makes sense? There we go.
Tim (59:07.655)
I would too. I would too.
Tim (59:14.951)
That would be it. Yep, that would be it. But let's set Forbidden Door aside, okay? And let's just say that Darby comes out of that still champion. Because I don't think we've ever seen a title switch at Forbidden Door. I could be wrong.
Dug (59:19.949)
Okay.
Dug (59:27.584)
And if we're going to, it's going to be the tag team champs.
Tim (59:31.218)
Probably, yeah, probably. It's gonna be one of the lesser belts or maybe it'll be somebody from AEW picks up a CMLL belt or picks up a new Japan belt, but I don't think they're gonna switch an AEW one onto one of those guys. Could be wrong. Well, yeah, yeah. I mean, could be wrong, could be wrong, but we'll see. So, okay. But so for the sake of precedent, I'll say Darby comes out of Forbidden Door still with the belt in this scenario.
Dug (59:43.648)
Heaven forbid they do the trios both.
Tim (59:59.996)
So now he's your champion headed into all in. In my mind, you got one of two options. Well, you probably got three options there. One is him and Osprey. Osprey's got to win in that situation. Two is him and Swerve.
Dug (01:00:12.95)
Absolutely.
Dug (01:00:17.346)
Yeah? Yep.
Tim (01:00:18.747)
Which we've done before and it was good. It was good. Those guys are good together. So it could be him and swerve, which if it ends up with him dropping to swerve worth it worth it. Yeah. Yeah. And swerve is now your draw, right? Option three at that point is Darby is the guy that takes the stipulation off of hangman. And it's him and hangman.
Dug (01:00:30.412)
Yeah, we're back on board. We're back at it.
Dug (01:00:35.854)
Mm-hmm.
Dug (01:00:46.422)
Okay. Okay.
Tim (01:00:49.293)
All three of those scenarios though in my mind, he's got to drop. He's got to, you got to switch the belt to the challenger in all three of those.
Dug (01:00:56.33)
And the interesting thing is all three of those options are basically face versus face, which is, I don't think necessarily ideal for what you're going for at it all out.
Tim (01:01:06.107)
I think that Swerve would come back in the heel version that he had been playing. Now, well, but what I'll say to your point is like, yeah, he was working heel, but the pop wasn't a heel, you know what I mean? He's not, it's the MJF heel pop of like, yeah, but we love you, you know?
Dug (01:01:09.492)
that's right. Yeah, yeah, I forget. Sorry, I forgot to swear.
Dug (01:01:23.116)
Yeah, he's kind of, it's the Austin pop because it's like he's healing it up, but they freaking love him. They love him.
Tim (01:01:25.531)
It is.
Right, right. And that's fine. Again, he's the draw in that scenario and that's what you need. But I think it's gotta be one of those three guys. If it's not gonna be MJF in the main event at All In, it's gotta be one of those three, because you gotta sell a bunch of tickets to a really big stadium in London.
Dug (01:01:31.661)
Yeah.
Dug (01:01:46.531)
Yes, you do. And again, that's what I'm saying. I'm sorry. I don't think Darby's your draw there. I don't care who you put in against him. I don't think that's enough to make that match. I just don't. Unless you have a better main event than your world title match.
Tim (01:01:52.464)
I
I agree.
Tim (01:01:58.885)
Yep. I agree. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. I agree. I totally agree with you. And so I think that if Darby comes out of double or nothing still champion, it has to be one of those three guys as his challenger at all in. It has to be.
I don't see another path out of it unless you decide to do, yeah, you can make it Andrade, but I don't even know as good as he's been. I don't even know if that's enough for All In. That's their mania. That's their WrestleMania. So you gotta have your version of, I mean.
Dug (01:02:22.454)
and make it a drudy.
Dug (01:02:31.928)
Probably not. you're right. You're right. It's probably not.
Tim (01:02:42.65)
my mind always goes to Austin Rock, but like you gotta have somebody in that main event that you know is gonna move tickets and I don't, maybe I'm wrong. Osprey makes the most sense, yeah, cause he's a native, right? He's from there, all that stuff. Osprey makes the most sense there and I've thought, as you know for quite a while, that he's gonna win the belt at All In this year.
Dug (01:02:49.738)
Osprey makes the most sense. Osprey makes the most sense.
Tim (01:03:04.73)
So he makes the most sense. And fine, because he'll draw. And maybe we're wrong. Maybe they've got information that says, no, Darby's drawn way more than we think he is. But I would be shocked, utterly shocked by that.
Dug (01:03:08.802)
Yes, you will.
Dug (01:03:16.778)
Mm-hmm. I would too. But again, good on him. I'm happy for him. I really am happy for him. think it's really great. Storyline-wise and everything else, I have a lot, a lot of questions about it. And it just doesn't feel right, mostly because, like we've said a dozen times tonight, you just squashed your most dominant champ.
Tim (01:03:22.65)
Yeah.
Tim (01:03:25.946)
Mm-hmm.
Tim (01:03:31.206)
Mm-hmm.
Tim (01:03:39.707)
Yeah, I agree. it's that's part of a line of questionable booking decisions going back to hangman losing and getting knocked out of the title scene entirely. Like that's really the first domino in the questionable booking in my mind anyway that fell and a lot of stuff since then has not made any sense. And so in a vacuum like
Dug (01:03:53.911)
Mm-hmm.
Tim (01:04:09.04)
Great, I'm with you. Good for you Darby. You earned it man, good job. And in wrestling, you don't actually earn championships. I think he earned this one. Good job man. Yeah, good job.
Dug (01:04:12.27)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Dug (01:04:19.118)
100 % yes yes yes this would have felt better if they spent three months building to this this would have felt way better way better
Tim (01:04:25.496)
And that's, that's, yeah, that's what I'm trying to get over here is the timing of this was wrong. If it had been him over Moxley, if he had won the belt when Hangman took it off him, if it had been Darby in that spot, I would have been like, awesome. Good job. Great job. No notes. You guys did great. That's exactly how that should have gone. Great job.
Dug (01:04:31.469)
Yes.
Dug (01:04:41.656)
Mm-hmm.
Dug (01:04:46.306)
Yep. Everyone who came out happy with that.
Tim (01:04:50.286)
Yep, but we didn't do it and he lost momentum and then you didn't get it back for him. And the stuff with him and Gabe Kidd didn't really do a lot to heat him up, you know.
Dug (01:04:52.664)
Nope. Mm-hmm. Nope.
Dug (01:05:00.502)
No, it didn't do it for you and I. didn't do anything for either one of those guys. And we didn't start to like Gabe Kidd ever, but we sure liked his two partners.
Tim (01:05:10.126)
Yeah, exactly. So I don't know, man. I don't know. It feels weird. It feels off. But who knows, maybe collision will start something that will go okay, who knows? I hope they got a plan. We've been saying that a lot lately, but I hope they got a plan.
Dug (01:05:12.599)
Dug (01:05:28.396)
I do too. I do too.
Tim (01:05:31.746)
Otherwise, Pat frickin' McAfee's gonna show up.
Dug (01:05:35.992)
That's been getting a lot of great, great press.
Tim (01:05:36.334)
And then if that happened, legit, if that happened, I'm out. I'm done. Like, I'm done. Elite heat will become about actual heat. It will become about furnaces and ovens.
Dug (01:05:42.126)
you
Dug (01:05:49.643)
Yes! Thank you. Yes. Heating pads, weighted blankets, hot plates, cocoa, coffee enemas. Wait, no. Those are not... Do you do those hot? Do you do those hot or cold?
Tim (01:05:53.292)
Mm-hmm. Hot plates. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Tim (01:06:04.741)
Get down how you get down, man.
I don't know.
Dug (01:06:09.772)
I guess it'd be a cold brew enema if it was cold.
Tim (01:06:12.411)
I would say, do you get the iced option in this too? And what about like the nitro cold brew?
Dug (01:06:16.076)
I mean, I guess you could.
What about a latte? Could you do like a chai latte, Anima? Is that a thing? Where when you're done, they put cinnamon around your...
Tim (01:06:33.287)
Caramel macchiato where they do a little drizzle.
Dug (01:06:33.326)
you
Tim (01:06:41.991)
Do they do they write the message like hey have a great day and still misspell your name
Dug (01:06:42.456)
They draw a little foam heart on your bum because they can.
Dug (01:06:50.05)
Yes, yeah, they do. Exactly. No, they put your next, they put your follow-up appointment there. That's where, that's where. The drizzle.
Tim (01:06:56.263)
that makes sense. makes sense. Anyway. Yeah, they draw the leaf.
Dug (01:07:03.756)
A little foam art on your butt.
Yeah, speaking of drawing the leaf, Blu Chu, call us.
Tim (01:07:11.749)
Yeah, right. Maybe maybe Starbucks now.
Dug (01:07:16.066)
Yes, you're welcome for the free pub.
Tim (01:07:18.747)
Yeah, that's a whole new line of business for you that you hadn't even thought of. You're welcome. All right. On that note,
Here we go on. Yeah, right. Yeah.
Dug (01:07:28.792)
Starbucks, the enema of champions.
Tim (01:07:35.217)
But here we go on the road to double or nothing and it is already a confusing one. take the ride with us, like and share and subscribe if you haven't already hit the button so that you can follow along with us as we continue trying to figure out what the hell is going on down there in Jacksonville.
Dug (01:07:42.701)
Yes.
Dug (01:07:51.34)
Yep, leave us a five star review and neither one of us will remember to look it up and read it, but we will try to.
Tim (01:07:58.363)
We'll do a really good job of saying we're gonna do it and then completely forget. Yeah. Yeah. You know why? Because we haven't had our coffee enemas. That's why.
Tim (01:08:13.115)
Well, that's a lot of coffee in the butt talk. Ooh.
Dug (01:08:14.414)
Can you tell I took my meds today?
Tim (01:08:19.9)
Well, I was going to say that that could be our second podcast coffee in the Talk. Dot com.
Dug (01:08:24.312)
Talk.