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Welcome to Your Art Is A Spell, the podcast that ignites inspiring and transformative conversations about art as a magical practice. I'm your host, Edgar Fabián Frías—a multi-passionate artist, witch, therapist, and proud mutant shape-shifter. My art spells have reached audiences through social media, billboards, and skyscrapers and have even been placed on the surface of the moon! Join us as we explore how reclaiming your unique artistic voice and embracing bold creativity can transform your life and the world around you. Subscribe to the podcast and sign up for our newsletter at www.yourartisaspell.com to stay connected!
Hello everyone and welcome or welcome back to
Your Art is a Spell. I'm so excited that we are
coming close to the end of season 1 of Your Art
is a Spell. This is our first season and I've
been so happy with all of the amazing guests
that we've had this season. And this is one of
the last guests that we're going to be having
on season 1. And I'm thrilled to share that
today I'm going to be speaking with Uma Gahd who
is an incredible artist, drag queen, performer.
Uma is also a witch who has a background in early
childhood education. Uma is based in Montreal but
has shown her drag work all over the world. And
not only that, but she was recently featured on
Canada's Drag Race season five as a contestant.
I was rooting for her because I'm always rooting
for the weirdo underground activist drag queens
who end up on RuPaul's Drag Race. I am someone
who loves seeing unconventional drag. And Uma
is as contrarian and as unconventional as you
get. And we will hear a little bit more about this
in our conversation. And so without further ado,
I'm thrilled to share this amazing conversation
that I'm about to have with Uma Gahd. Hi
everyone. Welcome to Your Art is a Spell. I'm so
excited today to have the incredible drag queen
performer Uma Gahd On today's episode, I'm so grateful
to the witches at the Missing Witches podcast for
connecting us and just want to invite you in as
everyone's favorite unofficial auntie. if you
want to just let us know a little bit about you,
Uma, how you're doing today. I am doing really
great. I am on the road today. I'm I'm visiting a
a a small city in Quebec for their ComicCon. So,
uh we're out here on the road. I'm doing
fabulous and just really happy to be here.
Thank you so much for inviting me. Yeah, I'm
so excited to have you on this podcast. Um,
we talk so much about art and magic on this
podcast and I'm so curious for you to share
about your relationship to art and magic as
someone who traverses those realms as I've heard
that you are also a little bit of a witch along
with also being an artist and performer. Yeah,
I've been kind of one of those kids that was
always like a little bit artistic, you know,
as I as I say with a limp wrist. Um, so I've
always been I've always been a little bit of
an artist and my dream was always just kind of
to perform. I never knew what I was going to be
doing, but my dream was to perform. Um, I've
been a witch since I was in the sixth grade.
Basically, like any good Catholic girl, I did my
confirmation and then converted immediately after.
I'm curious about that. Yeah. How were were you
led to that? Like I'm curious how you like Yeah.
stumbled upon witchcraft and that world. So,
witchcraft itself was always kind of like an
interest for me. I love the I love the mystery
and the magic of everything. I love the fantasy
of it all. Well, and like I said, I did my my
sixth grade confirmation at Catholic school.
And it was actually really funny because
my basically my godmother, so for those of
you that don't know what a godmother does, a
godmother's job is that if your parents are,
you know, if they die and they can no longer
take care of you spiritually, it's her job to
raise you properly spiritually, religiously. And
so for my confirmation, like any good godmother,
after she stood in front of the church with
me and said, "This is the kid that believes
in the the Trinity and the church and all that
stuff," she then handed me a book on Greek
mythology. And it kind of took off from there
because I was kind of like, "Oh, wait. There's
options. There's things that I can do. I can try
stuff." And that's kind of where it was. I met
a couple people when I was younger that were into
Wicca. I, you know, gave that a run for a while,
uh, through high school up until I was in college
kind of. And then basic when I started going to a
pagan festival that was, uh, around here up in
Canada, it's called Kaleidoscope Gathering. Um,
I was there and back then I had long curly hair.
Now I shave my head because it's more fun in drag,
but yeah. Uh, so I had long curly hair. I was
wearing a flower crown. And all of these people
kept comparing me to Dionysus. They were like,
"Oh, you look like Bacchus. you look like Dionysus
And I thought it was really funny because
actually at the time I was straight edge. So that
meant that I I didn't drink. I didn't do drugs.
Um I was a former raver, but I never did any,
you know, substances of any kind. And so the idea
of being associated with Dionysus, who is the
Greek god of like partying and revalry and wine
and drinking and chaos, it was almost like comical
how how opposite of me it was. But it just kept
happening like not even just at that festival,
it just kept coming up in my life. And so at some
point you kind of have to like when the when the
universe is shouting at you, at some point you
do have to listen. And so I started looking into
that and I I so I started down the path of uh
helenic I say helenic revivalism because I'm
not a reconstructionist. I don't have the academic
side in me to like do it 100% the right way. So I
always say that I'm a revivalist. I'm like trying
to wake up the tradition in the world as it exists
now. Uh and on that path, you know, I started
to understand a little bit more of Dionysus'
uh aspect as kind of like a gender queer weirdo
outsider. And you know, the aspects of his worship
that were in theater and things like that really
spoke to me as a kid who was always interested in
theater. I was a trained dancer. And so the
more I looked into it, the more it actually
started to make sense, which was pretty wild. And
then it was around that time that I started to
uh I I was in a production of Rocky Horror. I was
playing Rocky, which another surprise for some
people because they don't really see me as a Rocky
type, but I did it. And uh that's kind of where I
started my drag career because there was a drag
artist in the show who eventually became one of
my best friends who convinced me to do a fringe
play in drag and that's where it took off. Wow.
so much like guidance and like unexpected guidance
in your life coming in right where these moments
where you might like feel like I don't know if I
resonate with that but then as you're saying the
universe sometimes screams and like really tells
us what's meant to happen and wow I'm just curious
about your relationship now with like Dionysus and
with witchcraft with spirituality like how has
that evolved and shifted and you know especially
I'm thinking about this in the context of drag and
like how drag exists as an archetype and like the
roles that drag performers play in our society.
So, when I started in drag, like I said, I was
kind of in the not the honeymoon phase, but like
the rush phase of a relationship with deity. So,
everywhere I looked, there was a little something
for me to to spot and kind of like resonate with
me and especially obviously in drag. And what
was great was that it was both things that were
being presented to me and me going, "Wow, like I
never thought of that before." And then also there
was meaning making in the same environment where
I was looking at things and going you know what
this doesn't need to mean anything but I'm going
to make it mean something. And so that's where a
lot of kind of that relationship with gender that
I was exploring because you know at that point
even though I was in my mid 20s I still was like
I always tell people that I'm a bit of a prude.
I'm not a judgy prude. I'm not trying to stop
anyone from having fun. It's just I am incredibly
vanilla. I identified as asexual for a very long
time. Gender, sex, all of that stuff was kind of
like I'm going to keep you at arms length. But
when you're worshiping Dionysus, so much of his
mythology is built up in gender and sexuality.
And so I finally let myself kind of get into that
exploratory space. And so as a drag artist, when
you're looking at these things and you're really
starting to think like, okay, well, what does it
mean to be a man? I'm using air quotes in drag.
And what does it mean to be representing kind of
a feminine archetype? I never say that I'm trying
to be a woman in drag because anyone who has seen
my drag knows that I I'm not one of those soft
buttery queens. I always consider myself to be a
cartoon woman. You know, uh drag for me is always
it's been a a celebration of gender, but also like
an exploration of gender and a deconstruction
of it. So, like when I portray femininity,
it's kind of like it's absurd, but also saying
like how wonderfully absurd it is, but also how
Unnecessarily absurd it is. Like that's where drag
really sits for me. And I discovered all of that
in that moment where I was exploring gender on
stage, but then also in my real life. And that's
when I came out as uh gender fluid, agender
male. And it really gave me a lot of time and
reason to reflect on all of those things. So, all
of that started to happen. And that was a you know
my religious life but then my witchcraft is has
always been part of my spirituality. And so again
I was kind of like meaning making where every
show became a ritual. Every time I was on stage it
became a prayer. Like that's kind of where I was
sitting. And and now I've been doing drag for 10
years. It's my full-time job. And as anyone will
tell you never ever monetize your hobbies. I don't
listen to my own advice obviously, but in that
space, you know, like it's it's kind of taken some
of the sparkle out. I won't lie, but actually just
recently I kind of realized it. I I don't know if
it was being on Drag Race. Uh I you know, I was on
season five of Canada's Drag Race and I don't know
if it was kind of coming up to that that that
level of drag and realizing like my career has
hit a new high level. What am I getting out of it?
Let's reflect. And I started to realize like, oh,
you know what? It was different in the beginning
and I'm trying my hardest now to bring that back
in, bring that meaning making back in that magic.
So that's kind of where I'm sitting at right now.
It's an interesting space to feel almost like I'm
going back to the beginning. I'm really, you know,
curious. This was actually something I've been
thinking a lot about in like learning about you
and your practice and how you do really represent
that Dionysusian-like underground alternative,
you know, creative person. And I think about
how drag exists in so many different ways. And
you know, I remember listening to the Missing
Witches podcast episode you were on where you
talked a little bit about like the Sisters of
Perpetual Indulgence and how they represent
to me like a very like underground community
that's very much about creating safe space,
bringing people together, activism, organizing,
and you know, then you kind of come into the
world of RuPaul's Drag Race. And that I feel like
to me represents like it is an umbrella, but it
also does represent a very specific kind of drag
queen or person. And I'm just interested to hear
like how you've navigated that coming more from
like an underground or someone who's trying to
resist or like create other types of forms in the
space, how you then like yeah meet up and yeah,
how those exist together. So as you mentioned like
I am a sister of perpetual indulgence. I am one
of the founding members of the Montreal chapter.
It's a group that I don't work with as frequently
anymore just because drag on stage has taken up a
lot of my kind of my free time, I guess I'll say.
And the Montreal Sisters, it, you know, uh, for
those of you that don't know, the the Sisters of
Perpetual Indulgence, they are a group of activist
non religious nuns. I always say that they are
uh the Sisters for those who have no sisters.
They are the nuns for those who have none.
And every chapter of the sisters has a slightly
different flavor. And the Montreal chapter,
they are very politically active. Um they're
a little bit more active in the kink scene as
well. You know, the members that make up the space
decide where the sisters are going to be going,
which is kind of awesome. That's part of the
freedom of the sisters is that they're out
there doing queer drag for the community. So what
they reflect the community in that way. And so,
but the Montreal chapter is not made up of um I'll
say it's not made up of superstars in the sense
that they are not on stage. Like a lot of them
are like super shy and they're great one-on-one,
but they don't they don't put on shows and you
know, so I kind of like branched off and did my
own thing, which is why in the end they ended
up sainting Uma Gahd me because they were like,
"You're still out there. we see you out there
doing the work the same way that you would have
done it if you did it with us, you know, next
to you. You haven't stopped doing the work. So,
I I always have such a lovely relationship with
them where we're we're we're always kind of
like in the same spaces doing the same thing but
differently. We're on different roads to the same
place and I love that. And uh originally actually
I I was the I started doing drag with the sisters
before I really started doing drag as a drag
queen. And you know, just knowing that the sisters
are politically engaged form of drag. All drag in
in in its core is is is political, but it's how
people engage with that politics that really makes
the difference because not everybody is making
political drag, even if drag is politicized.
Uh whereas the sisters are intentionally making
political drag. And so that's kind of where I
came into drag. I had no interest in doing drag.
This is a recurring theme in my life where like I
have no interest in doing something and then like
I said the in the universe just kind of like bops
me on the on the nose with a fact and it's just
like nope you're wrong. So I had no intention of
doing drag and then when I I saw the sisters I
was like this is a great way for me to build
community through theater and spirituality.
I was already the president of the Montreal Pagan
Resource Center at that point and I had worked in
one of our local witchcraft shops. And so this
just kind of seemed like a great way to extend
that community. So that's where my drag came from
was out of the village. It was underground. It was
weird and gender [ __ ] And then when I started
doing my own drag as Uma, I wanted to maintain
that. I wasn't really welcome in my local drag
scene for a very long time. I was too political. I
was too like PC for them. They thought I couldn't
have fun. I didn't know how to take a joke. And
so I really built up my career outside of the
village. I made my own community. So even though
Uma doesn't necessarily always look like a weirdo,
deep down inside, that's who she is. Like she is
she is the auntie that's like, you know, when
you go to like a family reunion and you're the
non-binary kid with blue hair and everybody else
is looking at you like, I just don't get that one.
And then you got that one aunt that shows up and
she's got like the perfect bob and she's always
wearing like silk slacks and big rings and she's
like, "I don't understand it, but I'm so happy for
you." That's Uma. So even though I don't weird,
that's what I'm here for. Yeah. That like love
and inclusion and support really radiates from Uma
when you perform in her character. And as someone
who grew up really being impacted by the sisters
and also by like underground queer and trans
culture, it always warms my heart when I see like
an artistic, creative weirdo come into RuPaul's
Drag Race. And I do feel a little protective just
because I, you know, see those worlds as like,
you know, they're very much in relationship, but
they could also be very different like the values,
the aesthetics, like they can really um have
different priorities, right? And so I'm always
curious to see how people navigate that dynamic,
right? Knowing that you're entering into someone
else's like sphere who sees drag maybe in a bit
of a different way, even though as we know, RuPaul
does have a lot of connections to the underground
and understands these nuances. But I, you know,
definitely I'm curious if you have anything to
say about that. I think that um Drag Race and
I mean like we're talking about the American
franchise um you know, with Rupaul. Rupaul,
yes, absolutely. came from the underground and we
owe her so much in terms of drag artistry and and
the mainstreaming of drag. But she herself has
even said that she used to be a little club kid
weirdo who was shlepping her her demo tapes from her
backpack taking 2-hour bus rides from one end of
the city to the other to try to get anything to
happen and it wasn't working. So she eventually
just looked around and said fine they don't want
what I'm giving. I'm gonna give them what they
want. So, like I'm not gonna say she's a sellout.
That's not that's not what I'm saying. But yeah,
she she recognizes that sometimes the path that
will get you where you want to go is not the path
you want to take. And so, I think that that's kind
of where Drag Race comes in where they often are
are looking at a very mainstreamed kind of drag.
And she she wants people to know that getting
where you say you want to go sometimes requires a
different approach. And I don't necessarily always
agree. I think that there is a way to get to where
you're going, but I mean on Canada's Drag Race,
I did at some points kind of feel like the judges
just didn't get it and they weren't necessarily
picking up what I was putting down. But the
thing is is that no one has ever really always
immediately picked up what I was putting down.
People don't know what to make of Uma because
she's an old lady, because she's funny, but she's
also a weirdo. And like I'm not here for the orgy
but I'm here to make sure that, you know, everyone
has lube and a bottle of water, you know, like.
So people don't always know what to make of Uma.
And so I've been doing that my entire career. Even
when it just comes to my makeup and the the color
of my wigs, cuz you know, like I have a clown
face. I wear gray wigs. I didn't have resources to
do what I wanted right from the beginning. And so
I've been fighting my way through that, figuring
everything out, looking like a crazy person on
stage all the time. So, I'm used to it. So, when
I got to the show, I went in and I said, I already
have a career of 10 years behind me. This is my
full-time job. I have made top five list of drag
artists in my city year after year after year. I
know that no matter what these judges say, I know
that what I'm doing is right for me. I know that
it's right for my people. So when I went on the
show and I told them this, this is not me trying
to like downplay the importance of the show, but I
told them I said, "I have my career. This is going
to be a very fabulous important line on my resume
of all of the things that I'm able to accomplish
as an artist because I am a great artist." And so,
and they actually they loved it when I said that.
When I told them that, they were like, "That's
really smart of you to to put things in context."
And that's what I tried to do the whole time I was
there. So when I went out there and they didn't
get what I was doing, I said, "You know what?
Maybe you don't, but the people who need to see
someone like me are going to see me now. And I'm
going to stick to my authenticity. That's always
so important to me because I know that there's
someone who needs to see me. And so I'm less
concerned with winning and more concerned with
showing people what art can look like. It doesn't
have to be one thing. It doesn't have to be two
things. It can be nine things. And I'm going
to be that 10th thing." Right. Yeah. uh bring,
you know, coming in as an ostrich, right? Or like
really bringing in that like makeup that is really
going against what a lot of the other queens
are doing, right? And I'm curious, you know,
if you would like to share a little bit about Uma
and like were you also like kind of bopped in over
the head with Uma as a as a character or like was
that something that you felt more like organically
emerged in your own performance work? So again,
I just this is a conversation I'm having with
you where I realize like I really am just like so
contrary to like the world. I'm just I'm just such
a contrarian without realizing it. But um when
I started in drag, there was there was one face.
There was one kind of drag. Everybody wanted to
be like a skinny blonde Britney Spears with like
snatched makeup and that's all anybody in drag
wanted to do. And I had no interest in doing it.
And so when I started in drag, I actually started
in a play in the Montreal Fringe Festival. So we
wrote a play called Laureen, Queen of the Tundra,
and it was all about Canadian politics, gender,
and drag. And it was kind of like uh like it's it
was almost kind of like a like a Saturday Night
Live. This hour has 22 minutes for us Canadians uh
all about our prime minister's wife who everyone
thought was secretly a lesbian. And we had all
kinds of really crazy political messages in there.
And so my my my drag mother who was uh Frankenfer
in the the production of Rocky Horror that I did,
she told me she said, "I'm going to get you in
this play." And I said, "I don't want to do it.
It's in drag." and she said, "It doesn't matter.
It's a play. You're building a character. You're
not being a drag queen, you know, like you're not
you're not trying to be Britney Spears. You're
going to be acting. So, make a character and put
her in the play and then you're going to do it
for 11 nights and then you'll never have to do it
again." And I was like, "Okay, that that I can do
that cuz it's makeup. I love makeup. It's costume.
I love costume. It's people giving me attention
and I love that." So, I said, "Let's do it."
And then it's been 10 years and I still haven't
stopped. But when I went in, it really was like,
I'm going to go in with a character. And so I
tried to think of all of the women in my life that
made me feel inspired and also made me feel safe,
that made me feel welcome. So like that's why, you
know, my my sense of humor comes from my mom. My
gap in my that I I paint on in my drag is is my
my dad's mom. Uh the tiny little comma eyebrows,
that's my mom's mom. My perfume is my mom's
friend. And then all of these like red-headed
women of comedy are the people that like built
my sense of humor as well. So like Lucille Ball,
Carol Burnett, Shari Lewis, and the voice and
the face that I do, like my makeup is inspired by
um an an actress named Edie McClurg Oh my gosh,
I love Edie. You're one of the first people that
I've ever said that to know who she is. So yeah,
she's like she embodies that like welcoming,
loving energy, I feel so much. Well, because
she's she's like a character actress. She's
often playing like a a Midwestern mom. So either
the most welcoming or the least welcoming like
inv as as Chapsky Pariah. Awful woman as the
flight the the flight attendant on trains,
planes, and automobile. Nasty woman. But it was
the accent because even when she was being nasty,
there was still something so charming about her.
So that's why Uma also attacks like this. She has
a little bit of a Midwestern kind of vaguely weird
accent. So that's kind of where that came from was
Edie McClurg and the mom on Bobby's World. I'm I'm
curious about the decision to like bring in all
these people that made you feel safe and loved
and uh was that really like an intentional act
that you were doing for yourselves? Was it like
you wanting to create that space? Like I'm curious
about that decision to like synthesize all these
people into Uma. Oh, it absolutely was a conscious
decision to bring these like these women into my
character because like I said, there was one kind
of drag that I knew. I come from I come from the
nation's capital, which is Ottawa. But Ottawa is
a it's a small town in in many many many many
ways. There's a lot of great things about it,
but it's comparatively a small town for queer
people, especially because it's a it's a town
of politicians. So, like it's not a nightlife
city. It's it's the arts, but it's like government
funded arts. So, it's a strange place to grow
up. and the drag that I was exposed to there.
There was a couple of phenomenal performers, but
a lot of them were just unfortunately just [ __ ]
gay men that were bullied in high school and then
started doing drag so that they could be [ __ ]
and bully people in a nightclub. Like, I know it
wasn't all of them, but there was enough of them
that it like turned me off of drag. I didn't want
anything to do with it. And then that's why when I
said if if I'm going to do this, I'm going to make
sure that everybody knows that that is not what
I'm about. So I said, I'm going to make sure that
I make sure that everyone feels welcome. Because
when I used to go to the club, the drag queens
made me feel little and like sexualized at the
same time and like I didn't feel good being there.
And so I said, I'm gonna be the opposite. And so I
want Uma to be a hug. So all of these women that
I really was like, this is who I'm going at. like
this is who I want to be. It was specifically
in reaction to some of the the the not so great
drag experiences that I'd had as a young queer
person. I had some really fabulous ones of course,
but there was still I had a chip on my shoulder
and some of that was internalized queer phobia,
femmephobia. Some of it was my own work that I had
to do, which again was really great when I started
working with Dionysus. Like there's a lot of that
in there. Like that's a lot of a lot of uncovering
and breaking down and emptying out and rebuilding.
And thankfully I got to do it because it gave me
the opportunity to be the drag queen that I wanted
to see in the world, but also to realize that I
wasn't the only one that was doing that. It opened
my eyes to a lot of different styles of drag. And
in essence, that means that it opened my eyes to
my community. So I'm I'm really happy that I got
to do that. Wow. There's so much in what you just
shared that I resonate with. I think especially
as someone who is non-binary myself, like I felt
so rejected growing up in the like cis gay male
community and really only found that feeling of
safety and security in like trans spaces or in
like lesbian spaces or like non cis gay male spaces.
And I think that's like what to me like excites me
about people who one like play with gender, but
also that are pushing up against like what are
some of these either stereotypes or ways that
we like pass on trauma in our communities. And
I don't think it's talked enough about that there
are a lot of people who don't feel safe in certain
queer spaces or gay spaces because of these
dynamics where either it's hypersexualization or
it's bullying, right? Just making fun of people,
not accepting people. And so there's something so
profound and powerful about you using drag as like
a spell-casting form of magic where you're really
creating something, forging something, right? And
that really ties back into what you were sharing
earlier around making meaning, right? Creating
something with what you have. And to me, that
is so so much a part of spirituality and magic.
And I'm curious just to hear anything you have
to say about what I just shared. I think that uh
one of my pet peeves as a witch is the sentiment
that like all you need is intention. just because
I am one of those people that I love my uh I love
my chachkis. I love my gag goose. I love my I love
my my my herbs and my my tinctures and my potions
and all that stuff. So, there's a little part
of me that always gets a little irritated when
I hear all you need is intention. I think that
intention is the most important part of the whole
package. But most of the time I don't agree with
the idea of like intention is everything. But I
also think that intention on its own can make the
spell work. And so that's why like when I when I
created my drag and even as I continue evolving
it, I think that the intention absolutely is
uh like a big part of that. Like going out into
the world and manifesting the world that you want,
the world that you need. I do think that no, I
don't necessarily need I don't need to be walking
around with, you know, drag pockets full of, you
know, vervane and mint, but I don't I don't have
to. But like the intention is there that when I
walk out there, and I think it's because maybe
it's that it's the wig and the lashes that are
kind of like replacing the herbs. To me, there's
like, yes, the intention is great, but if you want
the the the the impact of the of the spellwork,
it does take a little bit extra. So, getting the
glitter out there is is a kind of important part
of it. And I think that that's that's one of the
things where it's like, yes, if you if you even if
you're doing something that you think is mundane,
if you give it meaning and you give it the extra,
giving it meaning is great on the inside, but if
you want it to affect the world around you, I do
think that you have to externalize the spellcraft
a little bit. And that's why when you're in drag,
you've got all the glitter. It's for the world
around you. And that's how you're manifesting. So
the intention is super important. And then going
out there and doing it is the is the big thing.
Yeah. Yeah. Bringing all your, you know, chachkis
together as you're naming and working with them,
creating meaning with them, and then sharing
them, right? Like bringing them out into the
world. And yeah, I'm I'm wondering, you know,
with you naming there's like two things that
I'm feeling here where one you named earlier about
around how you're wanting to return back to that
like original spark. The thing that really made
you excited about drag and performing and being
in queer community and also I'm thinking about
where we're at politically at this moment with
drag being seen as something dangerous or drag
being seen as something scary by some people.
like I'm wondering if there's any way that you're
sensing Uma wanting to shift or your own practice
wanting to shift and um do you have a sense
of maybe where things are wanting to evolve
or change? I think that a lot of the changes
that I'm feeling for myself, they're kind of
personal things. it it's going to sound this is
going to sound so consumerist and so uh you know
may like it's going to it's going to sound maybe
surface level and and cheap but I think it's still
important. When I started in in witchcraft I was
in the basement and as much as I said I come from
the nation's capital Ottawa that's actually that's
just the closest city that anyone's ever heard of
that I come from. I come from a tiny village of
250 people outside of Ottawa. Wow. And so I didn't
necessarily have resources and this was also like
the late 90s early 2000s when I started and like I
didn't have resources for witchcraft to get fancy
resins and expensive tools and and all this other
stuff. And so I made do with what I had for a very
long time. And I think that there's a power in
that. there's there's a an ingenuity that becomes
like that that that gets trained and there's
uh finding value in the things that you have that
becomes really important. And so I don't think
that there's anything wrong with it. But now as
somebody that's like I'm I'm close to 40 now. I've
been doing witchcraft for like almost 30 years
I want to say. And so at this point, I'm kind of
sitting here thinking, I am a grown adult with
my own grown adult money. I can go out and buy
the the resin that I never got to use. I can do
the fancy things that I convinced myself I didn't
need. I can see what the hubbhub is about. And the
thing is that I'm not necessarily doing it because
I think that that's going to make things better.
But I do think that one, novelty is important.
As someone who has been suspected of committing
an ADHD, novelty is important for me. And so,
you know, getting those things is going to be
fun, but also it's kind of like it's like you put
yourself to a test by trying something a different
way. So, like I've never done it the way that it's
written in the books before cuz I was doing it
my way. Well, what's going to happen when I do
it their way? I'm going to get to test myself and
see what I feel about it, how I think about it,
what what results come out of it. So, I'm kind of
in that space where I'm starting over because I
want to try all the things that I didn't get to
try when I started. And so that's where I'm at
like on a very personal level. So I don't know if
it's necessarily going to show through in my art
quite as much. But that's the whole thing, right?
Is that I'm saying that I'm retrying. So who
knows? Maybe if I start doing this in my personal
private space once I step out on stage, maybe it
is going to make things a little different.
Maybe it is going to transform things again.
So, I'm I'm starting on the inside so that that
way when I put on the glitter and I go out there
and I manifest that it might manifest something
totally unexpected. And so, I think that that's
part of what you were saying. And then in
regards to kind of how drag is seen in the
world right now, I mean, I am a preschool teacher.
I'm I'm a qualified early childhood educator. So,
I've been doing drag full-time now for six years,
I think. Mhm. But before that, I was a preschool
teacher. So like drag story time is just my day
job in a wig, right? To me, it's just natural.
Like a lot of drag artists when they do drag story
time, they pick stories like story books that are
related to like queer themes. And when I do drag
story time, I'm reading my favorite stories from
when I was a kid and then my favorite stories that
I found as a teacher. And so they're not related
to queer themes necessarily at all because
I know that literacy is super important. And
I know that literacy is a great way of teaching
children all kinds of things. So yes, some of it
is queer content kind of like diversity of family
and knowing who you are, loving yourself, gender,
all these things can be part of it. But I also
love reading. I was so mad by Mercer Mayor because
Kids need to learn how to express being angry.
Right. Yeah. So like my my drag has always been
political in several different ways. And right now
it's just the fact that it is what it is in a time
that it is that eats up a lot of that time. And
so I think that I am kind of like a a conservative
worst nightmare. But also like in my head I
should be like everything you want from a drag
artist. Like if you're going to say like, "Well,
you know, look at all these terrible things that
that queer people do." And then you look at me and
go, "Oh, but this one's actually like a preschool
teacher who doesn't do sexy drag, who, you know,
who doesn't drink, who like I drink a little bit
now. I'm no longer straight edge, but like it's
not my life. I only drink when I'm at work." Um,
but like you, you're interested in literacy,
right? Like you're like, "The kids need to
learn how to read. They need to know how to share
their emotions." like I should be I should be the
shining example of like why why everything can
be okay. But that's why it's kind of like I'm
just going to keep doing what I'm doing because
existing sometimes is the best thing we can do.
I I you know sometimes I absolutely am on the mic
saying the big things, the important things, the
things that need to be said loudly and sometimes
I'm just doing my job. And sometimes that's okay,
you know, like I I try to keep it balanced so that
I don't exhaust myself because as somebody that
is in the public eye, as somebody that is a part
of a lot of people's queer community experience,
I want to keep doing this. And so I do want to
make sure that I'm giving what everyone needs and
I'm getting what I need. So it's a little bit
of of that balance that I'm focusing on right
now. I'm trying to I'm trying to remain focused
on celebrating my community instead of getting
mixed up in the nonsense of people who already
decided they don't like us. Right. It I try not
to. Yeah. Yeah. There's so much already for us to
do in our own communities and so many people that
need support. And you know, I'm just like really
sitting with how you are sharing that going back
to what you said earlier around giving yourself
what you didn't have when you were younger,
right? like being able to reconnect with these
practices but with maybe more resources or with
trying things out in maybe a more conventional
way, right? Like that there is something about
like giving yourself something that maybe was
missing or wasn't there when you were younger. And
I really do feel like that is also is so powerful
about uh showing people different options,
different ways that we can show up in the world.
And I know that so many queer and trans people
feel uh the need to like build other forms of
family and community and you brought that word
community in and I know that uh you belong to
the house of Gahd and like I'm curious about you
sharing a little bit about that community and
like what maybe chosen family or what that has
meant for you to be a part of a house. So, the
House of God was we were originally called the
House of Laureen because of the the first play that
we did. And as members kind of like came and went,
we decided that like cuz it was basically the
the there's three people that were still kind
of in the group steadily and it was me and my
husband who is also my drag sister, Selma Gahd,
and then another drag sister, Anaconda La
Sabrosa. And we kind of thought, you know what,
like House of Laureen one being named after a
conservative government, like a conservative uh
prime minister's wife was like a weird choice to
begin with. Nobody gets it. And then when they get
it, they look at us like, what? So, we thought,
let's rebrand. Let's let's launch the House of
Gahd. It just it just makes more sense on a on a
business level because uh Selma, my drag sister,
is the mistress of business. Yeah. So, like when
she says something about business, you listen. Um,
so that's kind of where that that is. Like we we
see ourselves as a drag family. It's kind of like
loose and you know, I've got three drag sons. None
of them have my drag name, but they're all part
of the house, but they're not necessarily in the
plays that we do because we consider ourselves a
theater troop first. Yeah. And uh but that that's
kind of like that's the beauty of the queer family
is that it is fluid and it is about everyone
being able to provide what they can when you need
what you need. You know, like there's somebody
there's somebody who's going to be there to help
you. There's somebody that's going to be able to
support you. It's not the same person all the time
because it's that's the thing about like I'm going
to be real honest. The thing about kind of like
conventional biological families is I that I find
crazy is that we expect people to like complete
us like my husband, my wife, you are my my better
half, my other half, my kids who rely on me who
are then going to take care of me in my old age
and like it's kind of this obligation almost and
and what if someone's just not good at something?
What do you do? Whereas when you have these queer
families, it's it's a lot more ephemeral and you
get to serve you get to serve community and people
that you care about in ways that you can do it
best. And that's kind of like where you find the
people that need you and that you need. Like it's
a reciprocal thing. And it's like I said, it's
more ephemeral. And that's what I think the beauty
of it is. And in a drag family like House of Gahd,
there there are people I don't I don't really
speak to my my drag mother that much anymore.
uh she moved away and there was some hard times
in our family, but I still know deep down that
that's part of my queer family. She is still
somebody that I will always uh I will always
clap for. She's always somebody that I'm going to
want the best for. So like it's it's again it's
kind of like I think as queer people who don't
always get accepted by our families, we end up
being we end up recontextualizing and instead
of rec instead of recreating family dynamics,
we recontextualize what it means to be a family.
And that's why we see things so differently and
we experience it so differently. And it's it's
like I mean it's beautiful. Yeah. I I'm like,
you know, feeling such a like sigh of relief
hearing you share about this. Like I it really
makes me think of I've like coined this term in my
head, queer privilege, where queer people because
of this ephemererality, this fluidity, we have
an ability to like have everything fall apart,
like our sense of self, our like our lives, and
then we can rebuild and come back together and
like make it happen again, right? And like I think
to me like that is something that really makes
queer and trans people so resilient and strong and
adaptable. And I also do feel like that is a place
where a lot of straight people could learn from
the queer and trans community that like fluidity,
mutability are really important and they allow us
to exist beyond the things that might be really
rigid. And you know with you naming like family
roles and I think about like gender or uh even
like family dynamics like things that people might
feel like really stuck in. There's a way that like
you know you could understand that there are other
ways that we can show up in the world and that we
could be fluid and we can show different aspects
of ourselves or we could also organize families
that only last a night, right? Like that there
are things that are possible beyond what we've
been told is possible. So, I'm just like so happy
to hear you share about this in this way because
it is so powerful to know that that exists,
especially if you're someone who feels alone or
feels like you don't have no family around you.
Just know that that is out there for you. Yeah,
absolutely. And I mean like it it's not
necessarily something I kind of fell into
my queer family. Uh but sometimes it is it is a
little bit of work to like find it and make it and
keep it. Like I said, relationships are not easy.
Like I mean my my drag sister Selma is my husband
and that's a lot in work. Like that's it's it's
four people that like that's four people living
in our apartment. It takes up a lot of room cuz
it's me and my husband and Uma and her sister.
Like that's a lot of but we make it work. And
like I had a falling out with my my drag mother,
but I still see her and everything that I
learned from her as a blessing. I've got
a drag sister that I see frequently. And
then I've got a drag son that I speak to,
you know, he moved away and so we spoke to each
other once or twice a year. It was, you know,
we we we didn't stress about it because we saw
the the value in what we brought each other,
but it wasn't necessarily something that we
were relying on, but it's out there, you know,
and it'll be in a weird place. It'll be in a place
that you're sitting there thinking like, "No, I
can't do this." Again, here's that message again.
You're thinking, "I'm not going to go there. I'm
not going to go hang out there. I'm not going to
take that class. I'm not going to go to that club.
I'm not gonna, I don't know, take that art course
and then boom, that's where it is. You know, like
it might you might fall into it. You might have
to work for it. You might have to fight for it,
but it it's all possible. I'd love to hear
you say a little bit more around this this
what you're bringing in this kind of moment
that you might notice resistance in yourself,
right? And yet there might also be a desire.
There might also be something you're wanting,
but you notice that something's stopping you,
right? But then you maybe make that decision or
you put in that hard work. I'm curious if there's
anything else you want to share about that,
like the magic you've seen that happens in those
moments. I am by nature uh lazy and also anxious.
They work out really really well together because
like anxiety makes me feel like I don't want to
try anything. So, I do nothing. And then the lazy
part of me is like this is great. I love doing
nothing. So, I love the safety that that anxiety
and laziness provides for me. I'm really lucky
in that my husband is incredibly adventurous.
He'll try anything. But like, you know, the
worst thing that can happen is they say no. Like,
he lives by that. In my head, the worst thing that
can happen is they say no and I die. Like, that's
how it feels. So, I'm really lucky because I have
him there. Like, when I went full-time in drag,
that wasn't my decision. That was his. Wow. I was
working full-time at a daycare. I was waking up
at 6:30, 6:00, 6:30 every morning to do my shifts.
And then I would come home, I would shower in the
morning to get ready for work. I would go to work,
work all day, come home, take a shower, shave, go
to a gig, stay till 1:30, 2 o'clock, come home,
shower for a third time. Oh my god. Go to bed
for 4 hours, and then wake up. And he was like,
"You're going to you're going to kill yourself.
You can't keep doing that." So, he decided that
I was going to go full-time. And I trusted him.
And that's kind of that's kind of what it is is
that like again when I was, you know, when people
were talking to me about Dionysus and I thought
like that's crazy. No way. At some point you have
to look out into the void, into the universe,
into the possibilities and trust. It's really
hard, but sometimes I think it's it's one of those
things where in when it comes to spirituality and
religion, like if we're not if we're not talking
about your pocketbook, if we're not talking
about your rent, your groceries, if we're just
talking about things that might make you happy,
you have to trust because in the end, yeah,
you might feel embarrassed. Yeah, you might you
might meet someone that you don't like. You might
meet someone that you do like and then it might
not work out. Like there's a million possibilities
in the world, but you have to trust yourself and
your ability to like withstand because you're
going to you're going to survive. You're unless
something goes terribly terribly terribly wrong,
you're going to survive. You might not feel great
about it, but you'll survive. So, you have to have
some of that trust. And that is one of the things
that taken me the longest to learn. But again,
like I said, like all of these opportunities in
my life where I was like, nah, no, no, no, no,
it's fine. It's fine. It's fine. It doesn't even
have to scare you. You can just kind of feel like,
nah, no. Take the chance. Trust that you'll
survive it. Trust that you'll learn something
out of it. You know, like make meaning out of it.
If you're ready to make meaning out of something
that you feel comfortable in, make meaning
out of something that makes you uncomfortable.
because that's the only way that you're going to
keep the inspiration, the spark, the movement, the
the motivation. That's where it all comes from.
And so, as much as as you want to say no, trust
that sometimes you do need to say no, of course,
everyone needs to have limits. Everybody needs to
do, you know, but search, keep your eye out for
the opportunities where like trusting might not
be easy, but it will be valuable. And then that's
where you and you do it little bit by little bit
and then you trust more and more and more and
as you trust more the world opens up to you and
that's how you can keep succeeding. Of course
there's always privileges that are involved and
there's there's money and there's there's sexism
and there's politics and there's there's a million
things but keeping your eye out for where you can
trust and where you can try is a great way to just
to succeed. It's a great way to fail, but it's a
great way to succeed. Yeah. And failure is such a
huge part of success, right? And I feel like as an
artist, I've really learned that iteration is so
powerful. You know, having those moments where
you fall down, but you like pick yourself back
up and you learn that one thing and so you try
that different thing again. And just knowing that
sometimes you are being led somewhere. Even if it
does feel like you don't know where you're going,
there are things that might emerge. And I think
that trust is so big. Especially when you do feel
that like yearning, that desire or that like
little part of you that's like, I kind of want
that, but I'm not sure if that's right. You know,
as you said, if it if it will make you happy,
move in that direction. I also think that
again, this is like the recurring theme in
my life. I'm realizing when something turns you
off, explore that because I always say this in
drag as well where like when when drag artists ask
me like what's your number one tip for a new drag
artist? For me, it's always go big. Try the crazy
makeup. Try the clown face. Try the the weird wig.
Try the conceptual number. Try it. Yeah. Because
it's always easier to go big and then pull back
than it is to find your comfort in the little
and then be confronted with having to go big.
You'll never feel 100% like when when it comes
to makeup. Just as an illustrative kind of tool,
if you are a buttersoft little twink and you never
ever let yourself try big hair and and like crazy
lashes, you're going to feel like a clown when
you have to do it or when you finally decide like,
"Oh, I'm going to do it." You're going to feel
ridiculous. But if you go for it from the start
and you let yourself do something silly, you
might hate it, but you'll know why. And you're
going to look at it and you're going to go, "This
is not what I wanted. This is not the way I want
it to look. This is not the way I wanted to
present myself. So now I'm going to go back
and I'm going to like I'm going to know what it
is that I don't want to do. So I'll try something
else." And you might end up being a buttersoft
twink for the rest of your life. But you also
might just be somebody who is somewhere in the
middle. But so when something turns you off,
explore why. Try it and say, "That's why I don't
like that. There we go." Yeah, I love that. Yeah,
it's like a way to really like expand your window
of tolerance, right? So that you can like feel
like have more possibilities maybe than when you
would first start. So I love that advice and I
could really feel that resonating with many other
disciplines too to really make yourself go to that
limit. So that way you can have something to come
back from, right? Instead of like feeling the big
hurdle that comes up when you might want to try
to push yourself to go out there again, especially
when you get comfortable within certain practices.
Yeah. And you know, I think one question I have
for you that I'm just curious about, are you into
the tarot um being a witch? Like is that part of
your like witch practice? So, yes, but I'm not
good at it. I love the tarot as a concept and as
a tool, but I've never been able to memorize it.
78 cards is a lot of meaning to us to remember.
And then there's some of these [ __ ] out here
who want me to remember reversals. Are you crazy?
Well, the reason I bring it up, I was just
curious if you have a card that you connect
with or that you resonate with or that you
might feel like you're maybe living in this
phase of your life right now. Like, is there
a card that has any meaning for you right now?
It's kind of funny that you asked this because
I actually have uh a drag play that I wrote
uh and then I perform with with my my husband
Selma, who you just saw walk by in the background,
by the way. Um, yeah. Hi, Selma. Yeah, it's it's
a play called Why God? Why? And it's we read tarot
uh for the audience and then did drag numbers
based on the cards. And wow, I I I like it was
such a fabulous production that we got to do. Uh
but in the end, like I'm one of those people I
can't I can never remember like the most important
things when you put me on the spot. But I will say
this actually, it's a good metaphor. I am less
a tarot card and more of an oracle card. I don't
have the space to remember all of those memories,
like all of the meanings and the everything. But
I can look at something and give it meaning.
So maybe I'm not a tarot card. Maybe I'm an
oracle card from like a really colorful deck with
like beautiful shapes and and you know that means
something incredibly important for the creator
that made it and then is like meaning is found
in it by people who get to experience the art.
I'm I'm more of an oracle card. I love that so
much. Yeah. And I think that fits in so well
with you being someone that creates meaning,
forges meaning out of experiences, out of like
moments in your life. And to me that's like a very
valid very ancient also way of doing divination is
like receiving omens or having things that happen
and creating a meaning out of them. And so I
really want to like honor that type of witch
practice as well knowing that not everyone has the
capacity to remember all the tarot cards. Right.
Yeah. Well I I want to thank you so much for being
on, you know, this podcast and would love for you
to share how people can get to know you more,
connect with your work more because I really
want them to see your work. And also if you have
anything coming up that you want to share in the
next couple of months. So uh if you want to follow
me on any of the the socials uh you can look up
umaGahd. So it's u m a g a h d. The hd goes together
like holy deity like high definition like hot dog.
Um so uh I'm on all the socials under that name
except on Twitter where my account was banned
for no reason. And uh you can find me at House
of Gahd there. Uh if you look up God g a H D, me,
Selma, and our production company are the only
ones that come up. So amazing. You can find me
on there. So if you're old, I'm on Facebook.
If you're a millennial, I am on Instagram. If
you're uh Gen Zed, I'm on Tik Tok. And if
you're crazy, yes, I'm still on Twitter.
Wonderful. Well, is there anything Yeah. you want
to like share that you might be like doing or that
you'd like folks to connect with? Yeah. Uh, so I
don't know when this is going to be coming out,
but uh I am going to be in Edinburgh for the
Edinburgh Fringe in August. So exciting. I'm
doing Yeah, I'm doing my onewoman play. Uh, it's
called Are You There Margaret? It's me, Gahd. And,
uh, it's the story of Uma's life all about fame,
family, feminism, and failed marriages. So,
if you're if you're in Edinburgh or the, you
know, those about, then come down and see the
show. I'm there in the fringe. uh I think from
the second to the last week. Otherwise, I'm in
Montreal. And if there is anybody out there who
wants to book a drag queen, if you need a birthday
clown made of couch cushions, I am available for
birthdays, for comic cons, for uh book signings,
for divorces, like I don't care. Um yeah, I have a
weekly brunch that I do in Montreal in case anyone
here is listening there and you want to come check
it out, check the socials. I'll tell you all about
it. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much, Uma Gahd.
It's such such a gift to connect with you and
I'm so grateful to Amy from Missing Witches for
bringing us together and just want to say what
a treasure you are and so so grateful that you've
shared some time and space uh to be on your art is
a spell. So, I hope you have a wonderful rest of
your time at the ComicCon that you're at and yeah,
thank you so much for being here today. It's my
pleasure. Gahd bless. Yeah, thank you. That was
such a wonderful conversation that I just had with
Uma Gahd. I'm really struck by a few of the things
that she shared that I want to just highlight
and reiterate. One of them being that sometimes
you might have an idea in your head as to how your
life is going to unfold, but then all of a sudden
you're met with sign after sign after sign telling
you to go in another direction. Of course, we all
have free will and autonomy and could decide to
ignore the signs and be like, "Whatever. I know
what's best." And there can also be moments where
we take a risk, put ourselves in an uncomfortable
situation, and see what it's like to try out
what the world has been ramming down our throats.
I've definitely had this happen in my own life.
Moments where I have felt like I know what my
art career is supposed to look like or I know how
I'm supposed to show up in the world and then you
have people who see something else in you who
are reflecting back something else. And it is
so exciting sometimes to take it on and see what
happens when you're like maybe I am a musician,
maybe I am a writer, maybe I am a performer
and then see what happens. You might love it,
you might hate it, and you will learn something
from it. Uma also really wanted to stress that
it is so important for us to bring together our
intention with some sort of practice with some
sort of action. That is a big part of magic work
and witchcraft is to yes have an intention and
then to put that intention into action to really
work and cultivate that fire energy which is about
directing energy and putting it into our art
practice. And that can be anything from as she
said several times getting the glitter out and
putting glitter on your face or in your costumes
or it could be drawing something creating a song.
Any way that you could really bring that intention
into a physicalized or non-physical form is a way
of really working with that energy and creating
something from it. I really want to thank Uma
for all the ways she shows up in our communities
and for the intention that she places behind
her artistry of wanting to create inclusive,
loving, safe spaces for queer and trans people
to come to. Knowing that not all queer and trans
spaces feel safe for others, especially if you
are gender non-conforming, if you don't fit
into certain societal norms around body types
or abilities. There's so many reasons why we
need people like Uma championing for safety,
for inclusion, for love in these spaces. So,
if you liked this conversation, if you resonated
with it, I want to invite you to share this with a
friend. am envisioning us weaving webs as we have
these conversations, bringing people together in
many different ways. And and I've been really
in awe of the people that have been connecting
with this podcast. We just passed 2,000 downloads
the other day. We have been heard across almost
40 countries. And that's not even counting the
number of plays that these episodes have gotten
on YouTube as well. And so I am wanting to say
thank you to everyone for sharing these episodes
for telling your friends about this and also
want to invite you to get onto my newsletter
by going to yourartisaspell.com. You can connect
with me and I'm going to be sharing some exciting
updates coming soon. So you don't want to miss
that. So definitely want to invite you again to
get on my newsletter. That is the best way to
stay in touch with me. I'm going to be having
more ways for us to collaborate and participate
together. But with all that said, I want to
remind you that your art is a spell and it will
change your life and the world around us. Bye.