Ep07 - Book Lovers by Emily Henry

In this gem of an episode, Kristy and Jon discuss Book Lovers by Emily Henry, a story that turns the classic Hallmark lovers trope on its head. They’ll cover topics about compromise, sibling dynamics, and… weird crushes on animated characters?!
 
Links
Official author website: https://www.emilyhenrybooks.com/ 

On Goodreads: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/58690308-book-lovers 

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The Boyfriend by Freida McFadden: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/208503280-the-boyfriend 

A Very Merry Bromance by Lyssa Kay Adams: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/59831299-a-very-merry-bromance?ref=nav_sb_ss_1_17 

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BIMMHR Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/booksimakemyhusbandread/

BIMMHR email: [e-mail] 

Kristy on Goodreads: https://www.goodreads.com/kristypritzl

Jon on Goodreads: https://www.goodreads.com/jkpritzl

Chapters

• (01:03) - Upcoming books
• (06:24) - SPOILER ALERT
• (07:02) - Kristy's review
• (07:58) - Jon's review
• (09:42) - Reverse rom-com
• (12:01) - Compromise this!
• (15:15) - Pick a book, any book
• (17:30) - Sisterly bonds
• (19:44) - Switcheroo
• (22:02) - Skinny dippin'
• (26:56) - Different places, different faces
• (30:24) - Nora's anxiety
• (35:32) - Opposite peas
• (42:16) - I have the power
• (44:56) - Green M&Ms
• (47:29) - Final thoughts

Creators & Guests

Host

Jon King-Pritzl

Host

Kristy King-Pritzl

What is Books I Make My Husband Read?

Join us for a hilarious and heartfelt journey as one book-loving wife curates an unexpected reading list for her husband. With each episode, dive into lively discussions, humorous debates, and surprising insights on the books she just has to make him read. It’s a book club with a twist—and you’re invited!

Swipe left, or I don't know, which one's the no? I had to pause like, was that the no one? Yeah, swiping left is the no. That was before my time.

Hello listeners and welcome to this week's episode of Books That Make My Husband Read. I'm your host Kristy and this is my co-host, my husband Jon whom I make read the books. What's up everybody? This week we'll be talking about book lovers, a fun and funny modern romance aimed to make you rethink the classic hallmark tropes of city slickers and small town romantic interests. What happens to the city girl or guy that gets left behind in those stories? Well, enter Nora Stevens.

A self-described ice queen, she's comfortable with going after what she wants. She just didn't think that it would include Charlie Lastra, book editor and a man Nora has sworn to loathe. But before we get into our discussion, we want to share the next two books that Christie's going to make me read. Because he loves it. I do. They are The Boyfriend by Frieda McFadden, which I know you've been dying to get me to read a Frieda book. Yep.

And you're reading it right now and I think you're enjoying it. I actually, we agreed to read this together and no fault of yours, but I have not picked this book up yet, but you are enjoying it? Yes. Yeah, very much. I don't have any other reference to a Florida book, so I don't know if it's a good or a bad book, but I've been enjoying it. Good. And then the second one, since we're getting into the holiday season and we had a request from a listener if we were going to do any holiday themed or holiday-esque books. And we are.

So the next one that you're going to make me read is called A Very Merry Bromance by Alyssa K. Adams. So I am so excited for you to read this book. This book came out last year and I thought it was just ooey gooey. It was perfect for the holidays, which is not normally always the type of romance I go for.

but it is a series of books called the Bromance Book Club, but you don't have to read them in order or anything like that. And I think you're really gonna like the dialogue. And I do remember one time I was cracking up, this isn't a different book, and I stopped it because I was laughing so hard and I made you listen to the scene and you were dying laughing too. yeah, I did. I didn't even have to know the context of the rest of the book and I'm like, just that little clip was It was hilarious.

It was when the guys all go to the sauna together and they don't know what to wear in the sauna and they don't know if they put cucumbers over. They didn't know what to do. They went to the spa and got the sauna and they didn't know what to do. It was hilarious. was great. I'm excited for that one actually. Yeah. I think you're really going to enjoy it, but that'll be the last book we're going to do for the season. That'll be episode nine. And then in episode 10, we'll kind of do a recap of the season. have some ideas of what we're...

I think I want to do, but we'll see. And then we're going to take a little short break. About six weeks, we're guestimating and they'll pick it back up in February. Like once the holidays roll through and everything and give you time to catch up on a couple of books and maybe read some books that you want to read and not ones that your wife is just making you read. That would be nice.

And in the meantime, don't forget that you can always keep up with our upcoming books by following us on Instagram at Books I Make My Husband Read. Yep. And while you're there, drop us a comment, send us a DM, whatever. If you have a question, we do love questions. Let us know and we'll try to answer it on the next episode of the show. This week we did not get a question, which is very sad, but you had a coworker who had previously sent us a question and we did address it.

And she was very unsatisfied with her answer. I'm just kidding. She said she just feels like her husband maybe is not that into books. And I thought, why didn't I say have him try audio books? While I think reading books and listening to books are very much the same. Some people just are better listeners. So he might find a book that he likes that he's like willing to listen to, just like a podcast. So have him listen to this podcast. That's what I was just going to say. Start him off on a podcast like this one. Yeah, have him listen.

podcast, maybe there's a book he hears that he might be interested in from here. You never know. Yeah. And remember that as always, this episode will contain spoilers, wait for the whoosh, and we'll let you know before the cat is out of the bag and we're going to drop all the spoiler bombs. Yes. Should we do the book summary now? Let's do the book summary now. Nora Stevens life is books. She reads them all and she is not that type of heroine.

Not the plucky one, not the laid back dream girl, and especially not the sweetheart. In fact, the only people Nora is a heroine for are her clients, for whom she lands enormous deals as a cutthroat literary agent and her beloved little sister, Libby. And it's Libby who convinces Nora they need to take a month long vacation specifically to a tiny town called Sunshine Falls, which happens to be the setting of one of Nora's clients hit new novels.

Out of growing concern for her pregnant sister, Nora reluctantly agrees and the two set out on a vacation with a checklist of small town romance novel must do's, including, but not limited to, wearing a flannel shirt, going on a date with a cowboy, and saving a dying business. Yeah, Libby's got big plans for the two of them. She sure does. And everything seems to be going great.

But instead of picnics and meadows or run-ins with a handsome country doctor or bulging four armed bartender, Nora keeps running into that darn Charlie Lastra, a bookish brooding editor from back in the city and a man Nora has sworn to loathe. And if Nora is not your ideal heroine, Charlie is nobody's hero. But as they're thrown together again and again, a series of coincidences, no editor with their salt would allow.

What they discover might just unravel the carefully crafted stories they've written about themselves. Now. Introducing for the first time. wait, it's not that kind of show. yeah, no. But hey, this is when you're gonna hear the swoosh. So for any of you listeners who don't want spoilers, please. Swipe left.

I don't know which one's the no. I had to pause like, was that the no one? Yeah, swiping left is the no. It was before my time. Yes, we are not Jen's ears. Okay. And here comes the whoosh.

Did it go? Let's talk about what we rated the book. All right. I went first last time. So I have read all of Emily Henry's. I think she had a couple before this. I want to say every single one of their books because I think there might have been a couple I missed. But starting with Beach Read, she's come out with a book every spring, I believe it is. And I've read them all. And Book Lovers is my favorite, though. I like this one the best because I relate a lot to Dora Stevens.

I'm not saying I've ever been called the Ice Queen, but it's been close. So, I appreciated Nora as a strong female character and I didn't mind that she is going after what she wants and she knows how she wants her life to look and it looks very different than a lot of traditional women are expected to behave a certain way and have a certain life. And I just really appreciate that about her character.

do really like the dialogue between her and Charlie. So I gave it five stars. Nice. Yeah, I did too. It was a really fun read. I pretty much tore straight through it. You tore straight through it. I mean, it helps when you're going on like a 10 hour drive and you can just crush it. Yes. So Jon and I, a few weeks ago, drove up to Montreal. We were off work. And instead of enjoying each other's company, we both put our airbags in and listened to separate books.

All in the name of the podcast. But we also both work from home and so we spent a lot of time with each other in general. Yeah, that's true. But you tore through it as you were. And you know, was another book with outstanding... I love the banter between Charlie and Nora. So fun, so pithy and dry. Just the overall dialogue again was really good. Yes, the book is obviously around...

Nora and Charlie's sort of blossoming relationship. I didn't really actually think that was the core of the book. I actually felt the core of the book is really more about her and her sister, which I appreciated. It felt a little less like a traditional, I'm going to use air quotes, enemies to lover. And like there was this other dynamic to it, which I appreciated. absolutely. Yeah, it is a big part of the book. And I think that when you have rom-coms and Ambie Jimenez does this, like there's multiple relationships and even the

just for the summer that we also did earlier this season. There's not just the Justin and Emma, there's also her and her best friend and her and her mom. There's lot going on there. yeah, it just creates for this really well-rounded book. You ready for your questions? I think so. Ding ding, tap me in, let's go. Emily Henry said she wanted to write a novel from the city person who gets left behind's point of view. And there's a scene in the book where Nora says to Charlie,

It's my stock literary character. the cold-blooded, overly ambitious city slicker who exists as a foil to the good woman. I'm the one who gets dumped for the girl who's prettier without makeup and loves barbecue and somehow makes destroying a karaoke standard seem adorable. Have you ever given much thought to this character before? What are your thoughts about this and Nora as a protagonist? So I've obviously not read a ton of romance novels, I've seen...

I have seen plenty of like rom-com movies. there's a similar story arc to all of those. And I have actually wondered about those quote unquote evil characters that they portray. Like, how did they get that way? What did they do with their daily lives? And like, what's wrong with being an overly ambitious city slicker? Like, why is that always portrayed as a bad thing? But they never really go there. They're just like, God, this person's so harsh and cold and they have no heart and...

Everyone's got more layers in that cheese. I think that especially in the movies, most of those specifically women are portrayed as a very cold hearted. They are very materialistic. And that's just not the case. mean, of course, there's people out there like that, but I feel like that is not always the full side of the story.

I love that it's written from this point of view because as I said earlier, like Nora knows what she wants and she's just not willing to settle down with someone who isn't going to, I guess, live the type of life she wants. There's also a lot of layers to her too in like some of the, she's been hiding behind, which we'll probably get to, but I just really appreciate that Emily Henry wrote this from that person's point of view versus the person who goes to the small town and has this lifestyle.

switch and said this person's like, no, I'm a city person. I'm staying a city person. Why would I want to go live in a tiny town and bake cookies and save dying business? Are you crazy? Yeah. I think that's part of why I liked it a lot too. Like it didn't feel like what I have in my head as your stereotypical romance novel or, you know, trope. yeah, I appreciated that. Yeah. One of Nora's biggest struggles is finding the balance of how much to compromise in her life for those she loves. What role do you think compromise plays in love?

What to you is uncompromisable? So yes, I compromise plays a huge role in relationships. Also, I don't really like the word compromise. think because it sounds that you have to give something up. Yeah, it's got a negative connotation to it. I feel like it's also a lot of times used in the same way as like conceding or they're used interchangeably. And I just I don't think it's not about giving something up. It's about finding a balance. It's like navigating what's

important to your partner or your spouse and then finding that balance of how you can lean into some things or lean away from other things and all from the point of view of like you're helping the other person find more joy or something like that as opposed to leveling down both your wants to meet in the middle or meet at some lower result. I don't know how else to say that. Like, do you understand what I'm saying? I think so. I think that

The very definition of like compromise though is what you were saying earlier, like giving, you know, it's almost like you're something up. So in your opinion though, like when it specifically comes to relationships and any type of relationship, doesn't even necessarily need to be a romantic relationship. You're saying that it's finding a balance knowing that you're not maybe going to agree with every single thing about that person or like every single thing. mean, yeah, it's like, if you don't,

compromise or if you don't run into a relationship with some sort of like mold ability about yourself, you're just kind of going in rigid like you're one puzzle piece and you're just waiting to find the exact right puzzle piece that fits in to your puzzle piece. And I just don't think that that's a realistic way to live or like have human relationships. is a scene in Daisy Jones and the six one of the character says I'm not going to get in the story because it'll take too long to explain but sometimes

the person you love, what they need is going to be a gut punch to you. So I think it's also like, what are you really willing to tolerate? And that's a different threshold for everybody. But sometimes you make the decision like, this is the person like in our relationship, like this is the person I want to spend my life with. And sometimes the things you need to be a happy human maybe are really frustrating to me, but I have to accept that. And vice versa. I know I never do.

anything that's annoying to you or pisses you off ever. Nope, never. I'm not going to be caught on a recording saying that. And that's when I kill them, Your Honor. Yes, you're absolutely right. It's like the second part of that question was like, what do you think is non-negotiable? And I think it kind of ties in. Each person has sort of their core set of beliefs that make up who they are as an individual.

as an individual and any healthy relationship, you try not to change those, right? Those are your center and your core and everything else kind of around that. It helps you sort of balance and grow and, you know, change over time. Yeah. So I find this horrifying, but when considering a book, Nora immediately goes to the last page and makes her judgment. Some folks use this page 60 strategy where they read 60 pages to see if it grabs them. And yet others like Libby in the book,

going cold. What's your strategy? Whatever you make me read. That's my strategy, at least for the last few months. I wrote this question and I didn't even think about that until just this moment. So yes, obviously in in jest, that's a huge part, at least lately, that's been a huge part. But before that, the designer in me, like 100 % judges a book by its cover. Like that's my first tsk. Instinct. know.

I know. I find that interesting because some of those Nelson DeVille, those covers are plain. They are. But that's I don't think that's how I found that author. And I just started liking that. OK, that's fair enough. I do skim the jacket, get a sense of the plot. If that interests me enough, then I might open my phone and go to Goodreads and see what the rating is and then try to make a decision. But I also

I actually find myself liking to read the little handwritten recommendation notes that are kind of like at the bookstores that are splattered around. know, this employee liked this and then they kind of give why they liked it. I tend to gravitate to those too as like a quote unquote personal recommendation. But otherwise I like to go in cold. I don't like, I don't really want to know more than that. I want to just kind of enjoy the story and be surprised and decide if I like it or not without going in with any preconceived notions. Similar with TV shows.

you.

Go read, because I'm like, I need a little bit of context about what is going on here. sure. So I will sometimes go back, read the jacket or go look it up on Goodreads and read the summary there so that I can get some context. But I do, think I like going in cold sometimes. Nice. So you already mentioned this, but this is a romance between Nora and Charlie, but a lot of ink gets spent on Nora's relationship with her sister Libby. How did you find the balance between the two relationships?

wrote did that work for you? And obviously you said you already enjoyed that. So if you want to say any more about how you felt about their relationship or in the book, anything that stuck out to you about that? Yeah, I, you like I mentioned at the top, I liked the narrative. I liked how it added another layer of sort of interpersonal dynamics. I enjoyed how even the relationship building between Nora and Charlie was threaded through the lens of like

Libby and Nora's relationship too and what they were going through like, know, he became a partner to her He became a sounding board to her. He kind of kept her grounded especially when you know, Libby was rushed to the hospital and that sort of thing So I liked how they weren't siloed. They were more like interwoven across each other I also like the different perspectives and like worldviews that their relationship brought, you know, like it's especially how they viewed their childhoods like they both experienced

the same events within their childhoods, but they continue to uncover that their memory of them and their experience of them was both very different from each other. Yeah, was because that doesn't get revealed till pretty deep into the book. And so we're getting a lot of the way Nora remembered her childhood. We're not hearing from Libby. So it seems like it was a good childhood. know, their mom would take them to the bookstore and.

She had all these like little cues that reminded her of her mother and the time they spent together. And then Libby essentially like loses it on her a little bit and talks about their childhood and like the pressures that their mother put on Nora that she felt like she shouldn't as essentially a teenager. And you're right, it is absolutely crazy how some people who can be living in the same moment in the same space, essentially, but because they're coming.

in it with two different sets of personalities and perspectives and can experience something in completely different way. I did appreciate the relationship between Libby and Nora. I got a little pissed at Libby when she kind of did the old switcheroo. And really the reason she wanted to go to Sunshine Falls is because she wanted Nora to fall in love with it so that she could get Nora to move there. So while she didn't want

Nora to be her provider and protector the way Nora was trying to be. She also didn't want to give her up either. Yeah. I actually thought that was pretty shitty and selfish of Libby. Yep. Same. But I also kind of understood. mean, you know, they talk a lot about growing a distance between them. Libby clearly assumed that Nora would never agree to go with her to this tiny ass town. And the way that I took it was like,

Libby was really excited about this move and this change in their life and how much easier it's going to be for her with the extra space and like just a less stressful life in general for her and soon to be three kids. And she like didn't want to get in a fight with her about it. So she comes up with this ruse. And I was just like, understood why she did it, but yeah, I still thought it was kind of shitty. But I mean, in the same light, it's like Nora's reaction I thought was also super selfish.

She was trying to force Libby to live the life through her prism, like the city is great, this is where mom was, this is all the wonderful things that we still had as a child. And that's just, she didn't know that like Libby just, that's not what she wanted. And so, you know, she could feel the relationship with her sister like slipping away and her tactic was to try to hold on even tighter, which we know that when you do that, things just slip away even faster. So. Yeah, it was amazing how close the sisters were, but they were keeping so much from each other too.

Yeah. No, Nora was working behind the scenes to get her a better apartment and, you know, doing other things like that. And Libby's husband had already accepted this job and like they were moving and closing on the house. Like she took her to the house and they were already were closing on it or going to close on it. Yeah. So I definitely don't think that was the best moment for either of them, but it was the culmination that needed to happen in order to, you know, work to the point that they both were trying to get to like, which was, you know,

stitching back the relationship that they knew they had and both wanted. So there's a scene where Nora and Charlie are skinny dipping, which is one of the items that Libby has on her list that they're supposed to check off. Their list of small town to do's. Have you ever done that by the way? Skinny dipped? Yeah. Yes. Okay. Yeah. My parents listen to the podcast. Have you? Absolutely. well, Louise said it like.

Anyway, we're all adults here. So Charlie is from Sunshine Falls and he says, places like this, you never shake off what people first thought about you. And he said that what he loves about New York City is that you're anonymous there. You're whoever you decide to be. So growing up in a small town, do you think this is why you left and why you prefer to live in a large city now? Yes, 100 percent.

End of my answer. Done. Period. Next question, please. Yeah. mean, look, yes, I grew up in a tiny town. My town was less than 3000 people. My high school, all four grades were about 500 students in total. Like everyone knew everyone and not just like every kid knew every other kid, but like every kid's family knew every other kid's family. it's just, it's just, it's really difficult to f***.

find your own way or like carve your own path when you have so much, I don't know what the right word is, like you just have so many preconceived notions about you. And when you're in a small town, you are like peer pressured basically to sort of live out that lifestyle. mean, so yeah, I mean, moving out of state for me when I was 19 or whatever I was, was definitely a way to get out of that small town. Like I needed to discover who I was as an individual, like what was important to me.

What did I want to do professionally? What were my core beliefs? mean, I'm still working on that today, but I love the city. It's funny because I remember when we first met, we talked about where to live and things in New York. Like you had said early on in one of our conversations, you would love to live in New York City. And that scared the shit out of me. I'm like, fucking You're like, no.

And now like, but I moved to Wisconsin, but what was the first thing I told you? You don't want to live there for the winter. I'm not staying here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. Yes. 100%. And I agreed with that. I definitely agreed with that. I knew that Wisconsin wasn't the place that I wanted to stay either, but I didn't really know what that meant. You know, so we kind of took that journey step together by just blindly moving to Austin and which was a great move. It was a great move. I mean, shaped.

me that shaped our relationship. And I love the city. I love it for the amenities and everything that it provides, you know, around us. I don't know that it's just the anonymity of it, but yeah, I do think that that plays a part in it too. I like the city. There's something about, I imagine I'm not from a small town as you know, but I imagine that there's also just the, like you said, the pressure, but there's also not

Not the aminat... amininity? And amenity. I know, it's a tough one. Whatever. I know, there's literally some words I just don't try to say because I mess them up. But anyway, it's not just being anonymous. There you go. Nailed it. But knowing that you can walk down the street and you're likely not to run into someone you know, and you can look crazy or do something stupid or trip on the sidewalk. And that sounds like that in a small town.

Like there is someone who is going to see you walking down Main Street and tell your parents. Yeah. I saw them smoking. That happened to you, didn't it? No, but if my parents didn't know I smoked, that is just crazy. yeah, I mean, they knew before I told them afterwards. I thought you said your mom actually didn't know. I mean, years went by before I mentioned it. Maybe I didn't mention it. No, I'm pretty sure.

You said you had to tell your dad because you had to fill out like an insurance form, but you said, tell mom. That's right. Sorry, Kathy. That's funny. But, you know, I also want to be fair that there is something pleasant and calming about living in a small town like that too. But we get pockets of it in cities. Like we talked about our favorite restaurant in Indianapolis where it was just like...

There are moments where it's nice to be recognized. It's nice to be like, they know what your drink order is or whatever. There are moments like that that are fun. a big city though. Yeah, totally. I'm just saying there are slivers of that lifestyle that people find enjoyable and I think that's awesome. It's just definitely not for me or not for us. So speaking of living or being in different places, have you ever felt like different places brought out different parts of you?

And I already know the answer to this one. Should I answer this for you? mean, this, don't think this is a secret. mean, it might be a secret to their listeners because they don't know me, but yeah, I mean, you know, I'd use the word chameleon. Like we go to a different place and I try on a different skin and see what does this feel like? How does this feel like? Does this fit in here? Like, is this what this vibe is? And then be like, that doesn't feel right. That doesn't feel good. And kind of like toss that one off and

by doing those certain like taste tests of, know, is this feel right? Does this not feel right? It has also helped shape who I, you know, who I've become today. And I look back like to that move to Austin, who I was when we moved to Austin. And by the time we left, like the person I became was a hundred percent. A big reason was the environment that we were in. You too, obviously, but the environment as well. I had nothing to do with it. Did you cough right there?

What was your answer going to be for me on this one? Well, just that I have said to you before, there are certain situations that we go in that I just feel like you're not your authentic self. Like, I know your authentic self and I get that not everyone is their authentic self every place they go because we have people that we're more comfortable with and relationship dynamics are different. maybe in my case, some of my behaviors are not always

appropriate for the public, for public consumption. It's not like a regular practice, okay? You ask if I had done it. So I just know that that is like something that has come up in our relationship that I've called you out on, I would say. I mean, what about you? What do you feel like, know, different places, different faces kind of thing? I do feel like I make...

a concerted effort to try to be my authentic self most of the time, but I'm not always. mean, again, you just have people you're more comfortable around and you can let your guard down and we're going to talk about it, but the more people, know about you, like you give a part of yourself away. So sometimes you don't want you're in situations where you don't want to do that, but

Yeah, I mean, I think of course, I think for some things that you like you said try on a different skin, I wouldn't say that about myself. Yeah, you've always had a stronger sense of who you are as an individual and have been comfortable in your skin for a long time. Yeah, I'm okay with being a nice queen.

But again, that's back to like why I felt like I like this book so much and I like Nora's character so much is like I've never really been afraid of who I am. And I know that I am opinionated and I'm strong willed. And I talk back and I'm not going to let people push me around. And those are not always behaviors that are appreciated in a woman. have been in a room with men and told that I have to watch what I say because I'm a woman. I've been told what to wear like. And I just appreciate that.

we had a character who was living her true self and not standing for that kind of stuff. And she doesn't get into that, but she's portrayed as that type of woman. Yeah, it's definitely a layer to her character. So Nora's carrying around a lot of fear. Her mother's death and her subsequent responsibility for her sister have caused her to fear the loss of control resulting in nightmares and other stressors. How did you respond to Nora's anxiety?

I mean, she was stressing me out reading the book and she's not a real person. What's wrong with you, Nora? Seriously, it irritated me a little bit. There were a lot of points where I just wanted to say, are you being for real right now? Specifically around her sister. It just felt like she only saw Libby through the lens that she's the same little girl that she had to raise. I say that, this is a tough question to answer because I...

Obviously I can't relate. can't empathize in any way. I have no idea what it would be like to be thrust into adulthood and being a caregiver for your sibling at, you know, as a teenager or anything like that. I think it would be incredibly hard to let that go, but it doesn't mean you don't try. Like she's watched Libby get married. She has her own kids. Like she has her own life and yet she still has this incessant need.

It's almost like if she loses that, then she completely loses the memory of her mom as well. so again, it just sort of came back to she was trying to hold on tighter and tighter and tighter and tighter. And, you know, what's that metaphor? We're like, if you hold a pile of sand in your hand and you let it sit there, it'll be it'll be fine. But if you start squeezing it, like it's going to come out through your fingers, it's going to come out through your fingers and slip away. So, yeah. And then if you don't support it enough.

it's just gonna fall off your hand. It's like the balance. it's just the balance of like you have to kind of just like cup it a little bit and nourish it. I think that for Nora, it's not necessarily the control. It is she identifies with being a caregiver. So she cares a lot and Charlie says it's like Nora isn't actually an ice queen. She cares a lot more than most people.

She's just really bad at figuring out how to demonstrate in a way that relates to the person. So Nora is doing things that would resonate with Nora if she needed care. And you can't treat people how you want to be treated. The golden rule is wrong. You need to treat people how they want to be treated. So Nora.

cares about her clients, works her ass off for her clients. She cares about her sister. She does things that she thinks will be good for her sister. It causes her sister to have a lot of stress. But Nora doesn't see it this way. I don't think it's like this necessarily like loss of control. I didn't read it as that. I really read it as like she is misplacing the way she cares about people or doing it in a way that's not landing for other people in her life. Yeah, that's a really great point of view.

So you're the oldest of your siblings. Have you ever felt like you've had this for your brothers? Like this sort of... I mean, I am the family manager. I did not give myself that title, by the way. It was bestowed upon me. Nice. Yeah, I think that especially so, if you don't know me, I have a brother who...

I'm an Irish twin with or very close, we're 13 months apart almost to the day. And then I have a brother who is 11 years younger than me, same parents. And he grew up very differently than I grew up. And I actually had this conversation about shitting you today with someone. They're like, if you didn't even have the same parents as you did. I was like, he really didn't. I mean, my parents were just at different places in their life. My dad was 23 when I was born.

Think of the difference between you were 23 and then you're 34. Those are two different people. Totally. My mom was almost 40 when she had my brother. She's 29 when she had me. So I get, I understand how Nora feels about her sister, maybe struggling with things and not.

having access to some of the things that Nora has because Nora is a single woman in a good paying job and she sees her sibling maybe struggling a little bit or not being able to afford New York. We are in a different place in our life and my youngest sibling and his wife who I adore and their children and we don't have kids so we have more disposable income. both work. We're later in our career so that usually means you're making more money.

We're in a different place in life and it is hard sometimes when you see your siblings living different and then you're having to make different choices than like you have to make, even though we had to do those same things, like when we were 30. Like we had to make, our budget was not the same it is now. So I definitely need to answer your question, like feel that sense and need to protect that I don't with my other brother just because we're in, I think in a similar boat, but I would do anything for either of them too. So, which is why.

I probably liked it so much. Yeah, relatable. All of Nora's exes have ended up with partners who were seemingly totally different than them. So if you did not read the book, one of the main points of the story is, remember, it's the opposite of a Hallmark movie. So Nora is in this Hallmark movie, say, and this big city man goes down to a small town to, who knows, run off the small town baker because his big corporate company

is gonna run out the queen and he ends up falling in love with the cookie queen. And instead of, you know, the corporation buying it, they have a whole fundraiser with a hoedown and they save the cookie factory. then he tells this corporate man to go screw himself and he marries the cookie lady. While in the meantime, he has a girlfriend back home in New York City that is an ice queen. And he says, Sia, I'm changing my whole life.

I'm moving to small town and I'm marrying the cookie lady. Nora is a girl who gets left behind. So in the book, this has happened to Nora like four or five times. She is the woman who gets left behind. Her boyfriend calls her and says, I'm not coming back from my trip. I'm staying and marrying insert standard country name here. Okay, so all of our exes have done this and they obviously, if they're like big city people and they're moving down to small town, it seems like they're very different.

But Nora and Charlie, however, they seem like two peas in a pod. Do your favorite fictional characters tend to fall into one category or the other category? And do you feel the same about real life relationships? I think they probably tend to fall more in the former, in the more traditional opposites attract kind of way. think of like Robin and Ted from How I Met Your Mother or Peter Parker and Mary Jane or...

You and me even. You know, that's really interesting. Okay, because I'm glad you said this. Great. I was talking to a coworker dinner tonight and they said to me about him and his wife that they're really different but they make it work. I was like, that's the same as my husband and I. And he asked me how.

don't have a good answer anymore. mean, like I'm very much extrovert. You're very much like introvert. However, you are also very sociable when you're in like with people you feel comfortable again, back to that question about like when you are around people you're comfortable around the Jon, the Jon I know that I get to see regularly comes out like this weekend giving my brother shit that doesn't come out all the time, but you are comfortable with them. And so like,

There's that just like the social dynamic between the two of us. But I think there's so many things that we are similar on. I don't know. Like I would not say that we're opposites of each other by any means. We like a lot of the same things. We truly are thinking the same things a lot of the same time. It's creepy. That's so very valid points. I think what I come back to when specifically around us then is

really revolves most around what you were just alluding to how much more of an extrovert how you are much more comfortable in your skin. You are just a different kind of social being than I am. And I think that's where the biggest differences for me sort of stand out. But I mean, you're right, like all the other sort of day to day things. There are a lot of similarities between us. So back to the question, though.

That's my answer. I mean, yeah, I think opposites can attract, but it comes back around to the topic of finding balance and finding the push and pull and the give and take of working closely with another human being, working not just like working here day to day, but just like living day to day with another human being is, we're complex.

creatures and it takes a lot of balance and negotiating and understanding to spend a life with somebody. Yeah. The whole opposites attracting I think is really weird because you have to have in any relationship, this isn't just romantic relationships, any like friendship partnerships. Yeah, you have to have some kind of I don't know, common ground. It can't just be one thing that you need.

That type of relationship only goes so far. So I do think specifically if you're thinking like long term relationships, not just this is the person I watch baseball with or whatever. You have to have common ground. Like specifically also in romantic relationships. Like there has to be a standard set of values that you both are embracing and living your life kind of by.

I'm seeing you smile and I'm waiting for what's going to come. It just popped into my head, like all the damn episodes of House Hunters that we used to watch and just like how one person was like, I want to live in the country. I want to live in the city. Did you not talk about this? Yeah, like we, we don't want to live in the same place. like, y'all got married. I just.

I us yelling at the TV so many times like, you fucking kidding me? I mean, I that's still with some people. like, y'all got married. How do you not have some basic skills for communicating with each other? Yeah. I agree with that point about opposites, that there has to be common ground. But there is also part of what drew me to you was that you were different and like being with a life partner that is different than you can help you grow, can help you sort of.

reveal things that you didn't even know, which I'm kind of bleeding into, I think that other question you were alluding to, which maybe we should tee up. Yeah. Just to wrap this up though, I mean, there are for sure characteristics that you possess that I have majorly struggled with in my life that you have thankfully rubbed off on me and empathy. So you look for people that can balance you out. Yeah.

You see maybe my confidence and you're like, want some more of what she's selling. And I'm like, he's a really nice person. I need to be a little more nice. Nicer. All right, let's go on the next question. So as we had already talked about a little, but there's a scene in the book where Nora is she's internally deciding how much about her mom she wants to share with Charlie. She says, I'm not ashamed of my upbringing.

but the more you tell a person about yourself, the more power you hand over. Do you feel this way? That the more someone knows about you, the more power you give them? I do, but I think I would approach it with, or I'd look at it with a less negative connotation, right? Like opening yourself up to anybody else is scary as shit. It exposes you, it makes you vulnerable, like it opens you to like real hurt, but...

It can also have the total opposite effect where opening up can really be empowering. Like you can reach new levels of yourself. You didn't even know that we're there with the right partner. They can help you see things that you never knew about yourself or never saw about yourself or never believed in yourself enough to allow to be seen. so I mean, you and I had that, right? Like I wouldn't be who I am today without you in my life, albeit with some real hard bumps along the way. But

He was a piece of cake. I definitely would love to relive that. Rinse and repeat, please. Groundhog save. Like, sign me up. man. But yeah, go ahead. I was going to say there's the quote that loving someone, I'm not going to get it right, but it's like loving someone and giving them the power to destroy you and then believing that they won't. And I think that's really the deepest of.

of loves and again, this is not just, this is the relationship you probably have with your parents or people have with their parents, not specifically you, but people have with their parents or your siblings or, you your closest of friends. Like you are giving them part of yourself and you're hoping that that person is not going to use that in a negative way. So it can be definitely scary to give bits of you away, especially when for Nora that she didn't have like healthy

habits modeled for her. Yeah, she grew up in a life of like survival as opposed to a life of like healthy development, I guess. Yeah, I don't even know there was survival like she didn't she looks back at her childhood and I think she has fond memories of it. But maybe some of the pressures that her mother put on her to grow up a little faster than she needed to and then she really had to grow up fast when her mother passed away. Right. That's still like an incredibly young age and incredibly young and you do not have a fully developed brain yet.

Yeah. So, all right, I have one more question for you. And it's a very serious one. But there is a scene where Charlie says that he had a sex dream about the green Eminem. And Libby also says, I get it. That girl can get it anyway. That part was funny. Not necessarily the green, green Eminem.

But have you ever had any weird crushes or sex dreams about animated characters? I don't know if I want an answer to this being recorded and put out there for the world to consume. Created into a boomerang over and over again, you can hear yourself. Whatever it's called. I mean, I don't think so. don't. OK, so there's one I would say I would qualify as having a crush on. Is it Jessica Rabbit?

Because I feel like that is kind of universal among, you know, straight men. Okay, that's, I think that's fair. That would be universal. But I also wouldn't call that weird. Like, because she's animated, but she's an animated human. That's very fair. That's fair. a peach, you know, covered chocolate. Is it Mike Wazowski? Because that's weird. No, that would be, that would be weird. No, it's Judy Hop from Zootopia. I think Judy's adorable. I know, so do I. I mean, okay, I actually get it because...

Jason Bateman does the what's the fox's name? Nick Fox. I think it's Nick Fox. And I kind of get it.

This isn't a weird one, but one I thought of was Flynn Rider from Tangled. Yes, please. okay. Fair enough. I tried my best to stay away from Disney princesses and things, because I just need to... That's a little creepy. Also, I think you're creepy. I mean, let's be real. What childhood boy didn't have dreams about Ariel with the seashells? But you're also a 45-year-old man now. I know. not saying now. I said, boy. I mean, I don't

Edit! Any final thoughts about the book? And of course, would you recommend this to our listeners? I would. I would recommend it. Especially if any of our listeners enjoyed Just for the Summer by Abby Jimenez. I think the two are similar, especially around the dialogue and the hilarious pithy banter between the main characters. I would recommend it. It's a fun read. It's a fun, lighthearted read and definitely worth the time.

All right then, well, we wanted to remind everyone that the next two books in our lineup are The Boyfriend by Frieda McFadden and A Very Merry Bromance by Lyssa K. Adams. And don't forget that a free way to support our show is by leaving us a review and rating us on Apple Podcasts. Also, if you don't want to rate us, but you have a question or you have some feedback, you can email us at booksimakemyhusbandread at gmail.com. We would absolutely love to hear from you. We would.

We would, and that's all I got. That's it? Is that another one in the books? That's another one in the books! All right, well, who knows? Maybe this will be the one your husband reads. Or listens to. Either count. Okay. Ciao! Bye-bye!