Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
I talk quite a bit on this podcast about "the expert trap" and how so many of us get stuck teaching and training and don't step into thought leadership. This applies not only to those of us who are entrepreneurs, but of course to all the academics out...
I talk quite a bit on this podcast about "the expert trap" and how so many of us get stuck teaching and training and don't step into thought leadership.
This applies not only to those of us who are entrepreneurs, but of course to all the academics out there as well (hand raised!).
This episode is a treasure trove of insights for anyone passionate about making a difference through their work, particularly in academia or any field where expertise is a given, but thought leadership can make an even bigger impact.
My guest is Laura McGuire, EdD, a social scientist, educator, and entrepreneur whose journey and work exemplify transformative thought leadership.
Laura's story is not just inspiring; it's a call to action for all of us to think bigger and challenge the status quo in our respective fields.
Laura and I talk about:
About My Guest: Dr. Laura McGuire (they/them or she/her) is an internationally recognized consultant, survivor, researcher, seminarian, and author of the book Creating Cultures of Consent (Rowman & Littlefield, 2021) and The Sexual Misconduct Prevention Guidebook: Consent and Conduct for Higher Education Campuses (Fielding University Press, 2022). They were named as one of the 2022 Champions of Pride by The Advocate magazine and are regularly featured in media outlets for their expertise and approachability. Dr. McGuire is a certified full-spectrum doula, professional teacher, certified sexual health educator, and vinyasa yoga instructor.
Show notes at https://www.speakingyourbrand.com/387/
Laura’s website: https://drlauramcguire.com/
Discover your Speaker Archetype by taking our free quiz at https://www.speakingyourbrand.com/quiz/
Enroll in our Thought Leader Academy: https://www.speakingyourbrand.com/academy/
Connect on LinkedIn:
It's time to escape the expert trap and become an in-demand speaker and thought leader through compelling and memorable business presentations, keynotes, workshops, and TEDx talks. If you want to level up your public speaking to get more and better, including paid, speaking engagements, you've come to the right place! Thousands of entrepreneurs and leaders have learned from Speaking Your Brand and now you can too through our episodes that will help you with storytelling, audience engagement, building confidence, handling nerves, pitching to speak, getting paid, and more. Hosted by Carol Cox, entrepreneur, speaker, and TV political analyst. This is your place to learn how to persuasively communicate your message to your audience.
Carol Cox:
If you've been in the ivory tower, it's time
to escape it and step into thought
leadership for greater impact.
Listen to my conversation with Dr.
Laura McGuire on this episode of the
Speaking Your Brand podcast.
More and more women are making an impact by
starting businesses, running for office and
speaking up for what matters.
With my background as a TV political
analyst, entrepreneur and speaker, I
interview and coach purpose driven women to
shape their brands, grow their companies,
and become recognized as influencers in
their field. This is speaking your brand,
your place to learn how to persuasively
communicate your message to your audience.
Hi there and welcome to the Speaking Your
Brand podcast. I'm your host, Carol Cox.
We're continuing our series around inspiring
you to use your voice no matter what your
topic or industry.
Now, if you've been listening to this
podcast for a while, you know that I talk
quite a bit about what I call the expert
trap and how so many of us get stuck
teaching and training in our presentations
and don't step into thought leadership.
Now, this applies not only to those of us
who are entrepreneurs, but of course to all
the academics out there as well.
And my hand is raised because I was in
academia in the early part of my career.
This episode is a treasure trove of insights
for anyone passionate about making a
difference through their work, especially if
you're in academia or any field where
expertise is a given and is very highly
valued. But thought leadership can make an
even bigger impact.
My guess is Laura McGuire, PhD, a social
scientist, educator and entrepreneur whose
journey and work exemplify transformative
thought leadership.
If you would like to find out what speaker
archetype you are, take our free quiz.
It just takes a few minutes and then once
you take the quiz, you'll get your results.
You'll find out if you're a stellar scholar,
a fabulous facilitator, a provocative
performer, or a spellbinding storyteller.
Once you get your result, then you'll also
get recommendations for how to amplify your
natural strengths and what to add to it.
To make you an even more dynamic speaker,
you can take this free quiz as speaking your
Brand.com slash quiz.
Again, that's speaking your brand.com/quiz.
Now let's get on with the show.
Welcome to the podcast, Laura.
Dr. Laura McGuire:
Thank you so much for having me, Carol.
I'm so happy to be here.
Carol Cox:
It is a pleasure.
We have known each other for the past few
years, mostly through email communication.
Every once in a while you write back to one
of my emails newsletters about the latest
podcast episode and tell me how much that
you enjoyed it. So I always appreciate
hearing from listeners like you.
And I know we had chatted a few years ago to
kind of about what you do with the teaching
and the writing, and then also speaking.
So I wanted to have you on the podcast to
give us a perspective from from academia and
from fellow social scientists that you work
with and how they can escape the expert trap
and step into thought leadership.
Because we know and I have a background in
academia, so I get it.
We are prized for being experts.
That's what our degrees in.
That's how we get promoted and and awarded
in the context in our workplaces.
Same whether you're if you're a scientist or
an engineer or a physician or a pharmacist.
And by all means, I always say, please be an
expert in your workplace and with your
clients and with your customers, because
that's what they need. They need your your
expertise. But when we think about stepping
into thought leadership, whether it's
through public speaking or through writing a
book, I really want us to think about how
can we encourage our audiences to think
differently, to think bigger, to help us to
solve all these big challenges that we have,
both in the micro level and the macro level?
So, Laura, let me have you first tell us a
bit about what you do in your background,
and then we'll go from there.
Dr. Laura McGuire:
So I am a social scientist, as you mentioned,
being in academia and was in the university
system and worked for the government for a
while and loved what I did and loved what I
do, but really wanted to be able to go
wherever the need was for these
conversations. So I my again, a little more
of my background is that my degree is
specifically are on educational leadership
for change, which is social justice and
educational systems. And then my research
for my dissertation was focused on sexual
health education. So in this space I focus a
lot on misconduct prevention, trauma
informed care, and preventing and responding
to interpersonal violence.
So like you said, very, uh, expert kind of
field niche and evolving into being an
entrepreneur and really making my full time
living, teaching, writing and speaking, it's
really been.
Creating transformational environments where
people can learn and imagine a different
future for themselves and their industry.
Carol Cox:
Okay. I have so many questions for you,
especially because you live in the state of
Florida, just like I do.
And we know what our current governor has
been doing in the past couple of years with
laws that he has sponsored and that the
legislature has passed. So we can talk about
that towards the end, if you would like, and
how that's impacting the work that you're
doing and the work that you're seeing going
on, not just in Florida, but in other states
who may have done similar things or may
follow suit. But before we get there, may I
ask what got you interested in trauma
informed care and sexual assault prevention
and care?
Dr. Laura McGuire:
Yes. So my personal story very much feeds
into that, in that I'm a survivor of
domestic violence.
And even before that, when I was young, was
very passionate about social justice, social
change and transformation and thinking about
how systems either support that or prevent
it from happening in the way that it should.
So I was a high school dropout.
I got married super young and started having
children a few years after that and then
realized, okay, this is not a safe and
healthy situation.
What am I going to do?
I had no GED, no nothing, ended up getting
that in my mid 20s and then really realized
that a lot of things that I had thought
about, college had evolved in that time, and
there were options to do more independent
learning, um, and still get wonderfully
regionally accredited degrees.
So I went from my GED to my doctorate in
education in four years and eight months.
Carol Cox:
Oh my God, that's amazing.
Congratulations.
Dr. Laura McGuire:
Thank you. And that experience particularly
getting the bachelor's degree at first, was
something that really gave me the keys to
spaces that I had not grown up with.
I come from generationally poor people, um,
first person in the family to go to college
and enter into that kind of life and future
that I would want for myself and my
children. And so I became a teacher.
I worked with the school that partners with
JPS and really loved what I was doing with
those students.
I'll start working in victim advocacy and
being a full spectrum doula.
So all of this fed into me then doing
corporate training for that entity of
schools, and they taught me a lot about
gender responsive care, strength based
theory, and trauma informed care.
So that became the focus of my doctoral
work. And from there, kind of things just
continued to expand.
And then as an entrepreneur, that has
continued to be the main thing that so many
industries are still really hungry for and
not receiving enough support around.
So that has kind of become my my bread and
butter, my main stake in this conversation
as a thought leader and business owner.
Carol Cox:
So tell me a little bit about with your
business, who are your ideal clients, who
comes to you and what does it look like that
you do with them, and what kind of what what
are the outcomes that they get?
Yes.
Dr. Laura McGuire:
So it's kind of funny.
Who is my ideal client was very different, I
think in the beginning because I was focused
on industries I had worked in and I was
familiar in, but what has really blossomed
and continued to grow has been industries
that I had not really thought, okay, I'm
going to put a lot of energy here, but
still, who is my ideal client no matter the
field that they're in, are people and
organizations that are passionate about deep
systemic paradigm shifts.
They want to do that work and they want
support to get there.
So one of our mottos as an organization is
when you're ready to make a change, we're
ready to help make that happen, right?
So they have to be in a place where they
say, yes, we see this.
We have a vision for this. Maybe we've
already got some training, some kind of
shifts going on already, but we want to take
it to that next level.
And so that's where training on everything
from restorative practices at work to trauma
informed care, to responding to misconduct
in productive and survivor supportive ways
has become what we do through education and
through also strategic planning.
So it's not just that was a great talk.
Right now. There's actually action steps
that we're putting in place behind it.
Carol Cox:
Now, when organizations and companies seek
you out or come to you.
Has there been, you know, what is known as
like an inciting incident?
I don't mean like an a problem with an
employee, but I mean, like, what is like the
trigger for them to say, okay, like we are
ready for this next step.
So two things.
Dr. Laura McGuire:
Usually. Stand out, right?
One is that they're noticing that often
there's a lot of fatigue, burnout and high
turnover, and they're trying to identify
where that's coming from and what to do
about it.
And again, maybe they've taken kind of one
on one overviews on understanding burnout or
emotional intelligence, but they're trying
to do some of this deeper work.
The other thing that we see a lot is where
they really want to be able to differentiate
themselves from their competitors in these
deeper psychosocial ways, so they know
there's other people out there. I just
literally yesterday in Florida, wonderfully,
did a training for a law firm who will be
the first law firm where every single person
who is part of it is certified in trauma
informed care as a legal professional.
And that's something that they decided to
do, right.
In the first month that they opened.
They said, we want to be known as the people
in this area and honestly throughout the
country who our entire firm has these
competencies. So it's usually one of those
two paths that triggers it.
Carol Cox:
Okay. And so when I hear trauma informed
care, usually the context that I've heard it
in is either as a therapist, your mental
health counselor, or as a physician.
And, you know, you have patients who come to
you. So in the context of a law firm or
other non-medical workplace, what is trauma
informed care look like?
Dr. Laura McGuire:
Yes. So trauma informed care is is so
interesting because it really is instead of
something that you're saying, well, if a
client comes in and I'm their therapist and
they're traumatized or like you're saying a
medical provider, okay, you know, somebody's
injured, I address that it's changing the
lens through which we see all of the people
we interact with.
And in my program, we expand that to not
just main trauma informed theory, but also
things like spoon theory and consent
culture, which is something that I've
written a lot about.
And so it's having this approach to the way
that you're working with your clients, the
way that you're communicating with them, the
way that you're responding to them, how you
are reading, the way they're interacting
with you.
And then it is also building organizational
cultures that give these competencies to
each other. Right.
Because so often the mistake I think that's
been made is we ask people to give and give
and give a certain approach and to be okay
with never receiving that.
And that's just not sustainable.
So our program is really balancing both of
those sides.
Carol Cox:
Mhm. Okay. That that that makes sense Laura
and I and I appreciate the part about the
culture as a whole because I think about
this so much. Everything from, you know, our
society and whatever behaviors we are seeing
are the ones that people tend to mimic.
Because as humans we are mimickers.
So we can be told all day long, you know,
behave in a certain way.
But if the people around us, especially our
leaders, are not doing that, we are probably
not going to respond the way that we've been
told.
Dr. Laura McGuire:
Exactly, exactly.
Yes.
Carol Cox:
Okay. So then let's so it sounds like you
have done a great job and kind of shifting
out of the expert trap and into thought
leadership. Again, not with the kind of, you
know, on the ground trainings and things
that you're doing for your clients.
Because again, they need that expertise
because that's why they're hiring you.
Yet you have probably found that the thought
leadership does come into play, even during
workshop trainings, in order for them to
kind of see the big picture and what's
possible and kind of where where they're
taking not only their organization, but
everyone that they come into contact with.
So tell me a little bit about how you've
developed your thought leadership over the
years.
Dr. Laura McGuire:
Yeah, that's such a good distinction, right?
Is that I think sometimes, particularly as
you've mentioned, we come from this
background where we're so intensely trained
to have all of our sources and cite them and
give a million statistics.
And that's what a lot of times people get
frustrated with. They say, I've heard this
concept, I went to that training or I saw
that keynote and it was a lot of really
great facts, but I have no idea what to do
with that. Right.
What does that look like in my day to day
life? And so that's where I think I've
really moved into, like you're saying, this
thought leadership space of getting people
to really be in that space of expansive
imagination around what does this look like
in practical application.
Right. And so we break down, here's the
theories, here's the science, but here's
what that looks like in an email.
Here's what that looks like in a text
message. Now you tell me, how do you think
this would look like in a conversation about
an employee's performance?
Right. So making sure that people are seeing
those examples and then giving.
Multiple opportunities throughout our time
together to also include their own
imaginings, because everyone is learning
from each other as well.
And that's really important when we're
facilitating these kinds of discussions.
Carol Cox:
And have you found that it's helpful to share
stories in your workshops and trainings and
even obviously in your keynotes and other
speaking that you do either your own stories
or stories of, you know, obviously, uh, that
have been, you know, all the identifying
details have been taken out, but stories
that you have come across as well.
And tell me a little bit about that and what
that looks like.
Dr. Laura McGuire:
Stories, I think, are one of the things that
makes people light up the most.
Right? Because I can even say, well, I've
seen a lot of situations like this, or I
know as a professional this is incredibly
common, but until you can give them a story
of one person who went through that or had
an example of that, they maybe don't see
that as real as it is.
Right? It kind of stays in the cerebral.
So making sure that.
I think it's a lot curating what stories are
going to be the most effective, right.
Because there's a million people that I've
interacted with that have powerful things
that they've shared with me that I have
permission to share with somebody else.
But which of those is going to highlight the
kind of 10,000 foot view of the topic that
we're discussing, and how vital this
conversation that we're having really is?
And then making sure that, right, whether
it's a keynote or a training, those are
sprinkled throughout. So usually it starts
with an overview of the theory.
We talk about more examples of that.
And then we start getting into some of that
storytelling. And I think that's one of the
things that makes people who have the
academic background so uniquely qualified to
be thought leaders, because we can back up
what we're saying with peer reviewed
research. We also have a wealth of lived
experience and stories to share.
And that scholar survivor experience,
especially in my field, is someone who's
advocating for preventing violence is
something that's so unique and I think a lot
of people forget to tap into.
Carol Cox:
Yes. And I feel like for so many people in
academia and other and even sciences, it's
almost like for they've been trained out of
storytelling and their personal experience
by going through graduate school and then
and then into the tenure track seeking
positions and then into academia.
And I it reminds me that last summer we
worked with some University of California
faculty members to help them develop their
ten minute Ted style talks for an event at
the University of California was putting on.
So these were there were 8 or 9 of them.
And of course, they and they wanted to
present their research and everything from
how to use concrete and cement in an
environmentally sustainable way to the
US-Mexico border to, uh, the history of
resource extraction in Nigeria.
I mean, there was like every, every single
type of topic you can think of.
And of course, they're super excited about
their research, but they're so close to it
because they live and breathe the minutia of
it every single day.
And so but they knew they needed it to be
accessible to a lay audience, not to other
people in their specific field.
And so what we when we worked with them, we
said, you have to bring out a personal story
to make this relatable to your audience.
So the woman who's an engineer with a
concrete and cement, she has this great
story of growing up on a on a farm where she
convinced her mom to turn it organic because
she realized the danger that the pesticides
were having, not only to them, but to the
horses. Right.
Like that story.
I remember that story, and I remember cement
and concrete, but I'm not going to remember,
like, all the details about the engineering
part. So I'm sure, Laura, with the the
social scientists that you come across, they
probably kind of get challenged with the
same thing.
Dr. Laura McGuire:
Yes. Exactly.
Right. Because especially if you've ever
defended whether it's a thesis or
dissertation, you're so primed for.
Well, let me point you back to the research.
Let me point you back to these numbers and
these tables and the schema that we coded.
And the general public is like, that's
lovely. I don't really care.
I'm not even sure what you're talking about
half the time.
So exactly.
Blending that with our stories.
And I think that no matter our subject.
Right. Like you're using concrete as a great
example, whether it's something that, yes, a
lot of people can understand, like I think
my topic many people have concerns about, so
they're excited to hear someone speak on
that or it's something that's even more
niche, like cement and organic farming.
Right? People care about people.
And when we hear someone's story and we
connect to that and we see ourselves
reflected in it, or we see someone that is
encouraging us, that we feel inspired by,
and then we start to buy into the concepts
that they're sharing. Right?
So building that bridge is something that I
think we do need to train for more in
academia. Uh, last summer and now will
happen again this summer, I'm actually
teaching a class for social science majors
on entrepreneurship, because so many of them
are not going to get a great paying job
right after school.
They're just not.
And I fell into that trap myself of
thinking, oh, you know, I'm abd all but
dissertation I'll totally get a faculty
position. Took five years, I think, to just
get an adjunct position.
It's so competitive and hard right now, but
yet there are so many opportunities.
And honestly, especially as someone who's a
single mom for seven years, a lot of really
good money in things like corporate training
and speaking, and the people who are often
on those stages are regurgitating the
research we're doing. Weighing.
And if we can just learn to explain these
things in a more digestible way, we can have
those opportunities to.
Carol Cox:
Oh, I'm so glad to hear that you are teaching
them entrepreneurship, that I love that and
I think, you know, so I'm abd for 22 years.
So you know I know it's a long story, but
yeah, I left graduate school with a master's
instead of PhD back in 2002.
Yeah, a very long time ago, because I
realized at the time that the classmates, a
year or two ahead of me were struggling to
get tenure track positions.
And Emory is like the top of the R2 schools.
So it's a good school, but it's not an Ivy
League. So yes, it's going to be it was much
more, you know, competitive and harder for
us to get into those tenure track positions.
And I saw that and I was like, well, let me
make a left turn into tech entrepreneurship,
right? But it was funny that Emory and the
alumni network come back to me periodically
and say, can you talk to people about making
the transition from academia into
entrepreneurship because they realize that
there are a lot of skills we learn that are
transferable to entrepreneurs.
It just looks very different than the career
path we originally set out on when we were
younger.
Dr. Laura McGuire:
Yes, exactly, exactly.
And I think if schools are going to be a
good investment for students and they're
seeing a lot of students leave because
they're like, I'm not really seeing the
return in this. The ROI is looking very
good. Roi return on investment, but all the
acronyms, if we can set them up for this
kind of success for a world and any industry
that is constantly going to be innovating.
I think we talked about before we got on the
air, I and how that's changing so many
fields, right?
You need to be in a place where you can
quickly adapt and grow, and whether you work
for someone and have your own business or
your own businesses, the whole thing.
I think people really need to be thinking
more that way instead of, you know, I'll get
this job, I'll have it for this many years
and I'll retire.
Um, those avenues are getting smaller and
smaller. So making sure that people
understand what does it look like to do this
and succeed in these spaces, I think is
really vital.
Carol Cox:
Yes. And great point about artificial
intelligence, in that the skills that I feel
like are going to be needed in the coming
years are communication skills and all the
the humanities and social sciences skills,
which so many people have decided students
in the past 20 years decided to go into
computer science and Stem, which is great if
they truly that was their passion and that's
what they love. But I feel like humanities
and social sciences kind of got a short, a
short shrift in that time.
And there's so many valuable things that we
learn like critical thinking, research
skills, synthesizing, understanding.
You know, how, how things relate to each
other, how ideas connect with each other,
and then how to share those with different
audiences. And so, Laura, let's talk about
the social science, uh, professors and, you
know, those who are in academia or academic
adjacent and how you, you know, if there's
any of them listening to this conversation
right now, how they can start thinking about
getting into paid speaking engagements and
doing paid trainings so that they know that
tenure at a university is not their only
option, that there are other ways that they
can use their skills in their degrees.
Dr. Laura McGuire:
Yes. Okay, so the first thing I want to tell
any social scientist or any academic who's
listening is.
Publishing in journals is great.
Being known by your colleagues is fabulous,
but if you want to move into this space, you
need to tell the world what you know, and
you need to make it at a level where you
could speak to a group of ninth graders.
I always think that's like a good target
audience to think about their reading level
and their comprehension level.
And how do I make that something that people
are going to be engaged with?
So starting with getting you're used to
writing, think about taking little quotes
from what you've written and putting that
into posts and posting that on social media.
Right. People see that.
They want to know more.
When you see things in your field showing up
in pop culture in the news, post those
articles and comment on them.
Record a video where you share your
expertise about them.
I think especially where video platforms are
becoming much more popular.
Now we're seeing reels on Instagram and
TikTok really exploding.
We're seeing more academics really own that
space, and people love it because they're
like, okay, I don't want to hear just
someone who has an opinion, oh, this person
went to school for this. This is really
cool. They're offering stuff that I've never
seen highlighted before.
So take this moment.
This is an incredible opportunity to move
into these spaces.
Um, then you really need to think about what
is your brand and how are you going to
package yourself.
Right. You need at least a basic website that
tells people that you're awesome and that
you're available how to contact you.
Right. And one of the things I teach a lot
about in this class is really understanding
what are the market rates for speaking in
your field? Um, because so many academics
are also used to being grossly underpaid.
Um, I was a teacher before I was an
academic. Right? So like teachers, social
workers, um, we make so little money that we
think, well, you know, if I ask for like a
few hundred dollars, that that'd be wild.
That'd be amazing.
And then you see, oh, these people with no
degrees and no experience working in my
field are commanding thousands and
thousands, if not tens of thousands of
dollars. You can get there, too.
It's just getting your name out there
consistently. So I think a lot of that is
also learning to deal with the messages
we've received about we don't do this for
the money or we don't really need anything
for this.
Uh, you know, the university settings and k
12 primes you for that mentality.
And it's not helpful.
What I always tell my students is someone is
writing that big of a check and giving it to
someone, it will be you, or it will be
someone who knows half of what you do.
Why not put yourself out there and try?
Carol Cox:
Laura, I am so glad that you shared that
because I could not agree more.
And I do feel like for so many of us who who
do we love? What we do, we love speaking, we
love sharing what we do.
And so we kind of, you know, this was
definitely me early in my career.
I feel like, well, I would be here anyways,
so right I and do I need to get paid for it
as well. And like you said, yes, because
they're going to pay someone and you've put
in not only all of the education and the
hard work and everything, but also just the
creating a fantastic talk, you know, takes
takes effort, it takes time, it takes
iteration. And you absolutely should be paid
accordingly for that.
And it reminds me of a podcast episode that
Brene Brown did before she stopped her
podcast, which I really wish she would bring
it back because I really enjoyed listening
to it. But she shared that she was doing a
talk and this was after she had become well
known, so she had done her viral TEDx talk.
She had written several books.
By this point she was well known.
She was backstage at an event and she was the
headliner keynote speaker.
They had some other speakers there, but she
was the headliner.
She was backstage, I think, and then another
speakers agent was there.
So not her agent, but someone else who was
another speaker there said to her, Rene, you
know. That, like my speaker and the other
speakers here are getting paid a lot more
than you are. I guess because the agent
knew. And she's like, what?
Like, what do you mean?
They're all getting paid more than me?
And they said, yeah, like double what?
You're getting paid.
And she had thought before that conversation
kind of like, you know, again, she's in
academia. That's where her background like,
oh, like I'm getting paid this much to come
do a show. She thought she was well
compensated already.
Then she finds this out.
So she goes to her own agent after that and
says, basically double my fee.
Um, but she would have had no idea because
people don't talk about it.
They don't talk about what they're getting
paid or what you should get paid.
And that's why I want to make sure we're
having this conversation.
Dr. Laura McGuire:
Yes. No.
Exactly. And I also want to put the caveat,
because I think sometimes we say, you know,
we got to ask for more. We got to ask for
more for people who come from any kind of
marginalized community.
It's partially knowing that you can ask for
more and what you can ask for.
And I think we need to talk to speakers who
are in a more privileged place and say, tell
me what I can be asking for that you think
is just, you know, run of the mill has to be
expected. But also we have to address that a
lot of the people who are booking these
spaces and writing these checks will push
back. Yes, against women, against people of
color, against queer folks, where they won't
push back against a white, male, cisgender
person. You know, they come to them and they
say, I need this much money.
And these many, you know, things that make
me feel comfortable and well compensated.
And I'm like, sure, of course you've got it.
And marginalized people come forward and
say, I think I deserve the same.
Well, I don't know.
So there's two sides to it, right?
We're working in systems that are actively
pushing back against us, getting to a place
of equality. And at the same time, we have
to keep pushing, right?
We can't just sit back and accept that, um,
there's no way it's going to change long
term if we don't collectively do this
together.
Carol Cox:
Oh, Laura, I am so glad you mentioned that.
And you are absolutely right, because these
organizations, they probably would have
offered the male speaker more off the bat
than a woman speaker or, like you said,
LGBTQ or some or some other marginalized
community person.
And then. Right.
And then when we push back, we seem pushy or
aggressive or what have you in their minds,
in their own minds.
And so I wonder, you know, the first thought
that I have is it's great if you have a
speaker agent to do that negotiation on your
behalf, because then kind of takes you out
of it. It feels less personal, right?
They're kind of like that, that that third
party intermediary.
But obviously not all of us have a speaker
agent. Most of us don't because we're not
Brené Brown or at that level.
I don't know if, like an executive assistant
could play that role or if there's, you
know, someone that you could kind of, you
know, within your, your business kind of I'm
thinking, you know, for us and for listeners
kind of task with that being that
intermediary, like, you could still read the
emails and like help your EA, you know, how
to respond, but then you're kind of
distancing yourself a little bit from the
negotiation. And what do you think about
that, Laura? And any other suggestions that
you have?
Dr. Laura McGuire:
Yeah, it's interesting you bring that up.
I mean, I've tried a little bit of that.
I just haven't found kind of the right
person. So I don't know if someone's
listening to this and they're like, I'm the
right person, right? Talk to me.
Yes. Because yeah, I think a lot of speakers
do need to get to that place.
And even as business owners, if you aren't
someone who wants to be on front of stages,
whatever your product is that you're
selling, I think there's a great strength in
having somebody else be your sales and
marketing person, because you are packaging
your soul essentially, right?
There is so much emotion with this.
When people say no or it's too expensive or
they don't like something about it, it is a
direct attack. I mean, you can say it's not,
but that is going to be how it feels.
So if there's somebody else who says, you
know what, this isn't my heart and soul.
This didn't come from my mind and my years
of experience.
So I can go out there and I can deal with
the pushback. I can deal with the negativity
and find the right market for you.
That's awesome.
And if you're not at that place yet, or
again, you haven't found the right person to
really fit that.
I think it is continuing to see what other
people are getting and reminding yourself,
even if there's pushback, even if someone
says no, you're not imagining that this is
what you're worth and standing firm in that
foundation.
Carol Cox:
Mhm. Yes.
Yeah that's a yeah. It is hard.
It's hard being an entrepreneur.
It's hard being a speaker or whomever you
know putting yourself out there and you know
facing the potential and real rejections
that come. I will say that the more you put
yourself out there and the more sales
conversations you have, the easier it does
get. You know, like sometimes I'll talk to
women. Not everyone signs up.
That's just the nature of business.
And there are some of them where I feel
like, oh my gosh, like, she would be so
perfect. Like, you know, I love her energy
and I love the work that she does.
And it's just not a right fit or a right fit
at the time. For her, it reminds me there's
a book that I recently read called Self from
love. It's actually really, really good and
kind of changes your mindset around thinking
about selling again, selling your speaking,
or selling in your business.
I'll put a link in the show notes.
It's called sell from love. I forget the
author's name, but she does a really good
job of helping you, kind of thinking
through, kind of like, you know, you're
having these conversations with potential
clients and ultimately you want to serve
what's best for them.
And I know that that's what I want to do.
I know Laura, that's. You want to do in your
business as well. So it's almost like you
become that kind of collaborative partner
for them to figure out what is best for
them. Maybe it is our services, but maybe
it's not. Or maybe it's not right now.
Right. So you're kind of having a little bit
of detachment from the the outcome, like the
sales transaction outcome.
And instead of looking at it as this
collaborative, this collaboration with that
person. So I'm like, okay, that helps.
That helps. Yeah, no.
Dr. Laura McGuire:
I do I like that and I think.
Right, considering am I the best fit?
And also and this is really hard.
So I say this with humility.
Not saying it's easy, but accepting that you
actually don't want to work with everybody.
Some people are not going to be good for
you, and you are going to be miserable if
things move forward with them.
So having the courage to be able to say, I
don't want every single opportunity, I want
the right ones at the right time for me.
Carol Cox:
Yes. And that goes with speaking engagements
too. There could be a speaking engagement
comes along and maybe it's a good fee and
you're like, wow, that sounds great.
But then you learn a little bit more about
the event or the audience and you kind of
realize, oh, like, that's just is not going
to light me up like that type of event or
audience or the topic they want me to speak
on, whatever it happens to be.
This doesn't this doesn't fulfill me in the
same way. So then you have to decide, like,
is is it worth taking that?
And then you foreclose other opportunities
on that in that period of time because
you're only one person, right?
You only be in one place at one time.
Or do you do you let that go and in, you
know, the hopes that something else comes
along that is a better fit?
Dr. Laura McGuire:
Yes, exactly.
And I think another thing in that too, is
talking about the fees.
One thing that I've really learned is
prioritizing, really focusing on the bigger
fee, higher pay opportunities, instead of a
lot of smaller fee opportunities.
And people come at this from different
angles, right? Some people really want to
saturate the market and they want to be
everywhere. And someone turns around like,
there they are, there they are.
And that's great. That's their approach.
But again, especially as parents, I know
that being home with my children is a really
important thing to me.
And so being able to make what I would have
made, doing maybe 20 engagements in two
engagements, um, is, is really important.
So I think that's always something to
consider too. Do you want to be everywhere?
And that is one approach and it's great.
Or would you rather be a few places and have
your time for other things as well?
Carol Cox:
Um, yes. Excellent.
Excellent point.
Laura, I just something just popped in my
mind about ways that we can negotiate our
speaker fees. So speaking of I, we could
have at some point an AI bot.
And this is coming whether we want it or
not. So basically we're getting to the point
where emails, exchanges that we have with
other people, the AIS will be writing to
each other anyways because, you know, like
Microsoft Outlook is going to be doing that.
And Gmail on certain at some point will be
able to respond automatically.
So then we can just have the AIS negotiate.
Dr. Laura McGuire:
That would be amazing.
I would love yes, an AI assistant, just go
find my work for me, negotiate the contracts
and just tell me where to show up.
That would be awesome.
Carol Cox:
And you know what? It is going to happen.
It is. All right.
Laura. So as I said at the intro, we both
live in the state of Florida and our current
governor is definitely, uh, on has been on a
warpath with, with the all of the bills and
legislation that he has been promoting and
that they have been passing here in Florida
over the past couple of years.
Everything from wanting I, I'm, I'm a little
bit fuzzy on the details of what actually
got passed and not so you may if you if you
know then please let me please correct me.
But like not allowing gender studies at
universities, uh, you know, I know that the
African American AP class, they did disallow
that. And I think the AP company made some
changes. I don't know if is it allowed
again. But obviously all these things about
not being able to talk about gender identity
in schools, I mean, just a whole rash of
things, which, you know, for me, as a
University of Florida bachelor's degree
holder, I feel like it cheapens the degree
that I have here in Florida, even though I
got this degree way back in the 1990s.
But I'm like, really? Like that is not the
the quality of education that I got.
That is not the quality of education that I
expect from our Florida university system.
So, Laura, your thoughts.
Dr. Laura McGuire:
Are this could be a podcast, right?
Right. Succinctly my thoughts I am eternally
amazed that I was a teacher in Florida over
a decade ago, and things are so much worse
now. And actually I will include a story on
here. And if anyone watches the video they
can see this. So I have this flag and it's a
pride flag, and it's from one of my students
when I taught, uh, high school in Florida.
And you can see the edges of it are torn up.
And that's because the student came in and
said, I want to give you this flag to have
in our classroom because this is a space
that is about inclusion.
I feel safe in.
And the student was an ally.
They weren't LGBTQ themselves, but.
They wanted this flag up in their room, and
every night their stepfather would get very
drunk and he would come in their room and he
would tear it down.
And they said, in your classroom, this flag
will be safe. And I have brought it with me
to every place that I have worked since
then. And it's in my office to this day to
know that in 2024, I couldn't do what I did
all those years ago for this student and
their peers is heartbreaking beyond
quantification, right?
There's no way to really express how
shocking that is.
Um, as someone who debated coming out at that
time and felt supported in doing so now
knowing that I would have lost my job, I the
way I try to spin it for myself is the
positive is it's job security.
It means that the world needs the work that
I do and you do, and so many people do.
Um, the need is not going to go away, but it
is also something I think we really have to
sit in the magnitude of and grieve because
it is hard.
But especially as a queer and non-binary
person, every time I think about leaving the
South. I'm from the mountains of Tennessee
and have lived in the South most of my life.
I always think, you know, there's going to
be the next queer kid born somewhere in
Appalachia or in Florida.
And if all of the adults who are supportive
and safe leave, then who is going to be
there for them? So I will probably always
remain in the South where I know I'm needed.
Carol Cox:
Oh well, Laura, thank you so much for sharing
that really beautiful story, and it is
heartbreaking to see what is happening.
And I, I like to be an optimist.
I kind of I'm an optimist by nature and I
and I really feel like the pendulum will
swing back at least more towards the other
side, because it has swung way too far now
with what has been going on.
Dr. Laura McGuire:
Exactly.
Carol Cox:
Yes. Well, Laura, thank you so much for this
kind of enlightening conversation.
We covered so much.
I'm sure the listeners have learned a lot.
What is the best place for them to connect
with you?
Dr. Laura McGuire:
Yeah, you can go to my website.
Doctor. Dr..
Laura. Laura McGuire.
Macguire. Com.
Carol Cox:
Fantastic. I will make sure to include a link
to Laura's website and her LinkedIn profile
in the show notes. You can also check out
the video where so that you can see us and
heard the flag that she showed.
And thank you so much for doing that.
Laura. It's a pleasure having you on the
Speaking Your Brand podcast.
Thank you so much for the very important
work that you're doing.
Dr. Laura McGuire:
Thank you so much for teaching me how to be
in this space and make a wonderful living,
and the work that you do.
Carol Cox:
Thanks again to Laura for coming on the
podcast and sharing her insights with us.
We're continuing our series all around
inspiring you to use your voice.
So until next time, thanks for listening.