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God's given you a vision to plant a church. You're gifted and maybe have the team ready to go. However, there are thousands of details and hundreds of questions that you have. In this podcast we will answer some of the common questions and answer listener submitted questions to help you fulfill the call the Lord's given you.
Welcome back to 101 Questions That Church Planters Ask. I'm one of your hosts, Chris Highfill.
Danny Parmelee:And I'm Danny Parmalee. And Today we're
Chris Highfill:gonna be asking the question, answering the question, how do you fire a volunteer? Here's the thing, man. I'll be honest. I am a people pleaser, so I have the most difficult time, letting go of a volunteer. Letting go of a staff member or a volunteer is so difficult.
Chris Highfill:And in church planting, sometimes you just make the wrong decision on where you place people. And I think it's really important that you think about and think through, how it is you can let one of these people go or actually transition them into another ministry in your church. And man, I know Danny has stories, I have stories of us putting people in the wrong spot. And there is nothing more gratifying as a pastor, as as someone in ministry, whenever you're able to connect someone in the right skill set, in the right spiritual gift set. Danny, do you have a story about just a time that you really messed up like this?
Danny Parmelee:Well, I'm not gonna start maybe with how I messed up, but I do have plenty of those stories. But I think that one of the things is is, what you said, which is really your philosophy of volunteering in the first place. If you can, from the beginning, set a culture in which you're saying my role is to help you find how you can best serve God, and that's kind of the the the framework in which you're doing it. It will help you when you have someone that isn't operating in that, because the the difficulty becomes when they think that they are and they're like, no. I wanna, you know, I wanna be lead vocals on on the worship team.
Danny Parmelee:And Mhmm. They are not good at lead vocals or they think that they're great on the greeting team, but their face, communicates communicates something, different, for that. And so, I think you used the word transition, which I think is really, you know, is helpful that you're not, like, firing them. You're you're trying to find a different spot for them. So, you you did ask about, mistakes.
Danny Parmelee:Here I will say this. I remember thinking that, the greeting team or parking team that you could put that was, like, the low level. Just put anybody there. So, yes, I definitely made mistakes in that area early on because you kinda put maybe, yeah, people that weren't they weren't good people people, And then all of a sudden, that was the first impression that a visitor would have, and so those were people that needed to get moved, to different spots. So Yeah.
Chris Highfill:I had a volunteer quit on me before we launched and, gave me an ultimatum, saying, if you don't let me do this, then I'm leaving. And I fired that volunteer and just said, hey, that's not the kind of attitude we're gonna have as a team together. And so you're welcome to continue to be a part of this church for the next six months. You're just gonna sit and enjoy and learn, about the grace and goodness of God. And and my hope is is that God changes your heart.
Chris Highfill:That's kind of a heavy one. And he Yeah. It was before we launched and he dropped the sound system off at my house because he was working out of his house. It was raining outside. It was a sad day.
Chris Highfill:I was like, oh, this is terrible. Again, I'm a people pleaser and so Yeah. And the the the challenge though to all of this, if we're just gonna get to the nuts and bolts of just how it is and every one of these is nuanced a little bit differently, okay, okay? But I think with every one of them you have to start with thank you, okay? Every time you're gonna move someone from one role to the next, I think it's important to really sandwich what you're doing.
Chris Highfill:If you can think about it like just on the front end, you're affirming them, letting them know, that God loves them, that they have skills and abilities. They just can't sing. Or, you know, one of the volunteers we had to move out of a spot, he was, we found out he was running sound for us but he was tone deaf, like literally wasn't able to hear sound like you should be able to like, you know, if you had a vision problem, right, we wouldn't put you in charge of the bus ministry, okay? Not that there's even one of those anymore, but all that to say like we would make these decisions, and you know, I think it has to start with a thank you. I think before you could even backing up even further to that though, I think every role in your ministry should have a job description.
Chris Highfill:Every single role. That way it's not about personality. And I realize this, a lot of times it is about personality, but you have to be able to separate, the person and maybe they're a little obnoxious as a greeter, or maybe they overshare, over talk, maybe they're a small group leader, that should have never became a small group leader and you just got a little ambitious. You know, whatever the role is, I think it's really important that you're able to circle back to a job description, even as a volunteer. And it doesn't need to be long, it can be a half page, a full page of expectations, and more than likely the reason why you're wanting to let them go from this position is they aren't meeting the expectations, right?
Chris Highfill:So if you're able to circle back to that job description and say okay, but also backing up before you have to fire them, another level is this, is tell everyone on your launch team, early on, hey we're not gonna give away titles, we're gonna give away responsibilities because people, man, I don't care how low the ego is, people love that title. And when you take that away from them, it's gonna be really difficult for them to stay at your church in your ministry. Danny, any thoughts on that?
Danny Parmelee:Yeah. So, it's, two times you said, hey. It it let's back up a little bit before that, and you're absolutely right. It's the culture and the processes that lead up to that. It's only once you're in trouble, you're like, crud.
Danny Parmelee:You know, I gave this person a title, and yet, you know, we we would always say there's, like, this culture where, hey. As you're trying to find your fit, you're gonna try multiple things. And with most of our processes, like, whether it was worship team or whatever, it was like, hey. You're gonna try this for three to six months. And after three to six months, we're gonna ask you, is this working for you?
Danny Parmelee:And then, you know, vice versa as well so that both people kind of have an out, not, hey. I signed up for the worship team. I'm now on the worship team until, you know, Jesus comes back or until I die, type of thing. And you also have a culture of evaluation, and you can't have evaluation unless you have that description. You're evaluating against this, not just this kind of general thing.
Danny Parmelee:And if you're able to do those evaluations kind of just, even even if they're not overly formalized on a regular basis, even when it's positive. So it's not like you're getting called into the principal's office and the greeter team leaders, you know, calling a greeter in and every time that happens, that person's gone. But to say, hey. Let's, you know, let's just have this kind of culture of evaluation. So, yes, so much of this, you know, really starts in the beginning.
Danny Parmelee:The other part that I would say, because you had mentioned, yeah, I'm a people pleaser and and most pastors are or they're nervous that the person's gonna get mad and and leave. If you do nothing, often you're gonna have bigger problems on your hands. So just to think through that, because if they're not doing their job well, it's affecting other team members that are other volunteers that are on that team. It actually is kind of a slap in the face to those that are fulfilling their responsibilities, operating at a high level, and then it's like, oh, this person is on the team. They're kind of dragging the whole team down.
Danny Parmelee:So if you're able to, again, have some of that culture in the processes in the beginning, it's gonna just save you a lot in the long run. You're still gonna have those issues, but at least it's a little bit easier and to come to that person and say, hey. Let's find you a different place because that's what we're about here. So Yeah.
Chris Highfill:And I mean, you're gonna this is it's not a matter of is this going to happen. It's gonna happen. Okay? So I think it's really important on the front end before you even start putting people to serving or putting volunteers in place is letting them know there is an expectation here and, we're gonna circle back to this and set it in your calendar. Literally Yes.
Chris Highfill:The moment you, like, have the first meeting with them, hey, in three months, we're gonna talk about this.
Danny Parmelee:And I would
Chris Highfill:tell our launch team, we're actually, you know, maybe you're running kids ministry right now, but you could be running the greeting team six months from now. So don't get married to this. And I think that's really important. We're committed to the mission. And man, there was one conversation that I didn't have that I wish I would have with the person that was running kids ministry.
Chris Highfill:I gave them the title of kids director and he was not a part of that conversation that we had had previously, about like, hey, there's gonna be a timeline to this and whatever, and it just wasn't the greatest fit. He had started like an Awanas program in his last church and starting like doing Awanas at a church and doing kids ministry at a church, like starting one from scratch are two different things. So that means also just because they're a great school teacher in an elementary school, they may not be great in kids ministry. You just gotta have to evaluate on that as you go. So all that to say, do some front end work with job descriptions and expectations conversations.
Chris Highfill:Make sure you're following up. But let's say you're at the inevitable place now where you have got to remove a volunteer. You want to affirm them for who they are and like how God has gifted and skilled them. You wanna be sure you're gonna thank them for what they've done and then you're gonna tell them, you gotta just be honest, right? Like hey, I'm here today to have this honest conversation with you.
Chris Highfill:This is not the greatest fit for you and start to else. Yeah. Let's try and that that leads to the fourth thing. We're gonna try something else. Like you're going into that meeting with two or three options of what they could do next.
Chris Highfill:You're not just gonna say, hey, you suck at this, sit on the bench for a while. No, it's, hey, this isn't the greatest fit for you, and maybe they may even ask for a few reasons why and just be honest in the few reasons why. And then, hey, I've actually considered this for you. What are your thoughts, right? And get some of their feedback.
Chris Highfill:You're not just like forcing them into maybe they were a small group leader and now instead, you're gonna simply put them in like a door greeting position or whatever. Whatever the case scenario is and that's what's so so difficult about this question, it's nuanced so much differently because you could have a person that actually needs a break. And that sometimes that is the situation like maybe they do need to sit on the bench for a while because their attitude is not what it needs to be. Or maybe they're going through a divorce or they're going through a challenging time in their marriage or they're going through a challenging time with their kids. I think it's really important to go, hey, we care about you and because we care about you, we're gonna give you a bit of a break for six months and then we're gonna come back again.
Chris Highfill:At the end of six months, we're gonna evaluate that. And again, you gotta forget. They're counting on it. They're thinking, okay, if we have this conversation in January that means in June we're gonna talk.
Danny Parmelee:And if
Chris Highfill:you're anything like me, you're gonna have 20 other conversations like that before June. And so like you've gotta you gotta have that that that comeback conversation, and to be able to say, hey, how's it going? I hope that you're encouraged. I mean, I've noticed, you've been around more. I noticed you seem happier.
Chris Highfill:You feel like the weight of this is off of you. And, as your ministry grows, here was the challenging part for me. As your ministry grows, the same people that help you, whenever the the ministry is small, whenever the church is a little bit smaller and you feel a little bit more like a golf team, are not the same people that are gonna be able to help you necessarily in those same roles as the church grows. And that was probably one of the biggest challenges for me. And dude, I would hear that, and I just thought you don't know how I can develop people.
Chris Highfill:And sometimes there's a lid to someone's development and it's just what it is. And so like it's good to celebrate it, it's good to affirm them, it's good to thank them. And on the backside of the conversation, say thank you again. Alright, like just you can't affirm or thank them enough, but there has to be something there in the middle where you're honest and you're courageous with what you're saying to say, hey, I'm just gonna be real with you. This isn't the greatest fit.
Chris Highfill:And once you get those words out of your mouth, that it it it it you build it up in your mind as something that's gonna be way worse than it actually is because more than likely they also understand that it's not the greatest fit. Very rarely have I had this conversation and someone has been shocked as a result of it. Most of the time they're affirming it with me and when they're not, those sometimes aren't the people that you want on your team anyways. So that's how you let go of a volunteer. I know it's challenging and you can do this.
Chris Highfill:Be sure to reach out if you have any additional questions. Go to churchplantersask.com. We'd love to be able to follow-up with you and help you. Maybe it's even with some potential outlines of some job descriptions that you can have or whatever. And so until next time, keep asking those questions.