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A podcast that explores ways we thoughtfully engage with new cultures and forge friendships in the most unlikely of places.
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Think Global podcast. Once again, my name is Jonathan, your host here, and I'm excited about today's conversation. But at Think Global, we say, the world is our home where strangers become friends and friends become family. And, I'm excited to have a conversation today where some of that is is true where people live around the world and they get to see where strangers where they live actually become their friends and over time those friends become family.
Speaker 1:And living overseas is not easy all the time and not for the faint of heart but when you actually see friendships form, it's a beautiful thing. And so today I'm joined by actually a personal friend of mine that I'm excited to be with. His name is Corey. So Corey, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2:Hey. Thanks for having me on here.
Speaker 1:Corey lives in the country of Jordan in The Middle East and he's been there for a number of years. How many years have you been there?
Speaker 2:Oh, man. Nine. Nine years? Nine years.
Speaker 1:I seriously thought you were
Speaker 2:gonna say five. It's crazy.
Speaker 1:If you said guess, I would have said five. Sheesh. Wow. Nine years in Jordan. That's amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's wild. So if someone were to visit you tomorrow, I've been there before, not me. Think of somebody that's never been to Jordan before. They visit you tomorrow, but you only had an hour.
Speaker 1:Where are you taking them?
Speaker 2:Good question. Probably to the Citadel. What is that? It's in the middle of the city Amman, Jordan. And it's got it's when you get to the top of it, you can see a lot of the city and So it's
Speaker 1:like a big tower type of deal?
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's kinda like, so it's okay. So just a heads up, it's got, there is a biblical story there that happened where David sent Uriah to the front lines and that's where he died on the hill. That's where that happened? The citadel.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's wild. Yep. From the
Speaker 1:top you kind of see the city, but really you're interested in
Speaker 2:the historical Correct. There's historical stuff there. And there's also Roman buildings and stuff there as well. The Ottoman Empire stuff was there. There's all kinds of cool stuff.
Speaker 2:Wow. And then it's just history. So on top of all that, you're learning history, you get to see the city as well. Wow. So
Speaker 1:That's amazing. What have you learned about history that's fascinated you that you maybe didn't know before?
Speaker 2:There is more, as much or more biblical history in Jordan than there is in Israel.
Speaker 1:Really? Yeah. It's Give me some examples.
Speaker 2:Jesus casted out the demon of the man in the cave in Northern Jordan.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:On the Jordan side of the the Galilee, Siv Galilee. Wow. Which is now called the Golan Heights, which is a very sensitive place. You can actually, they actually have a plaque of the cave that they believe that man lived in and you can walk in there. Wow.
Speaker 2:Did. It was wild.
Speaker 1:It was like a legit cave.
Speaker 2:It's a legit cave. Oh my gosh. It's a legit cave and actually they used it in the past, actually for a prison as well. Yeah. For a certain in a certain time period.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So also there you can see kind of the hillside where he cast those the pigs off into the the casted demons into the pigs and they ran off the Wow. And that was in Jordan. That was in Jordan. Wow.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So it's, that was one thing that I was like, oh my goodness, you know. And then when you think about Mount Nebo, Mount Nebo is on where Moses saw the promised land. Mount Nebo, the baptismal site of Jesus is on the Jordan side, and the Dead Sea. All that is within a five minute car ride.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow. So when you take people around, it's
Speaker 1:like we can see all these things
Speaker 2:in a short little trip. Yep. That's amazing. It's crazy because you read it in the Bible and you're thinking these things must be Yeah, spread out. Spread out.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You get there and you're like, at Mount Nebo I can see the baptismal site and I can see the Dead Sea. And you look out and you can see Jerusalem on the other side. Yeah. Like you can kinda see the tops part of Jerusalem over in Israel.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You can see Jericho. You can see, it's just, it's bizarre. And when Jesus is in the desert for the forty days and forty nights, you can instantly tell where when he says the desert that on the Israel side of the Jordan River, there's a lot of trees, which is surprising. But on the Jordan side, it's just complete desert and it's been that way for thousands of years. So that's where he was.
Speaker 2:So they might as well just put Jesus was in Jordan for forty days and forty nights, why come on? That's awesome. There's just so many things that we just had no clue about. At one point, there's, yeah, I mean you could just go on and on. Just the fact that the Ammonites Yeah.
Speaker 2:Were there too in the Old Testament. David was taken over that land, that's when Uriah was there. Like just,
Speaker 1:That's amazing.
Speaker 2:And the cool thing is one of the guys who's at our fellowship there in our city, he is the YouTuber for historical biblical history in Jordan and he's got like over a million followers.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, really? Yeah. Just go sit down and have a coffee with him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah we have a couple times.
Speaker 1:He's my Really? That is fascinating.
Speaker 2:He's invited us to come to different like burial sites and stuff that they've Yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's really cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So or archaeological sites.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's amazing. Okay. So diving into like outside of history, mean, we could talk. Could pull that thread all day.
Speaker 1:That's pretty fascinating. But you first get to Jordan, rewinding nine years ago. You land, you're there. First week or so, what popped out at you of like, I was not expecting this? What stood out?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so definitely the desert life was different, you know? Growing up in the woods and the mountains all my life, and then arriving in the desert was, it was shocking at the time. And then, so that part was different, think, But what we what I also was shocked in a good way was when we got there, it was just everybody, neighbors and people within the city, instantly were inviting us over for coffee and tea and food. It's like, man, the four years we were there.
Speaker 1:In that particular city, that first city. Yeah.
Speaker 2:The first city. Yeah. I could have coffee and tea and food all day long with somebody different. I mean, walking up and down the streets, different business owners, different people, different families, different tribes. You know, we talk about, when you read in the Bible about tribes and stuff, that's still a thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's- Still a tribal culture. Tribal culture. Interesting.
Speaker 1:Wow. So the first kind of shock wave that hit was the desert and then contrasting that to growing up in the woods or in the mountains in The US. Then, but on the flip side, the hospitality Hospitality. Which I was gonna get into that later but might as well get into it now. Like what's describe the nature of hospitality in a culture like that.
Speaker 1:Gosh. And how, sorry to interrupt, and then how it's impacted you and your family as well? Like how, what have y'all learned from it? How has it impacted you? But describe it first, what's it like?
Speaker 2:Being a good southern boy, I always thought that we had the best hospitality. And we were I was shamed quickly. You know, like, it was just crazy. I one of the first times we walked into someone's home, it was a Syrian refugee's home, and they literally had nothing in the house, hardly anything. And they gave us this display of food that you're just like, Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2:Am I are they giving us the only food that they have left? You know? And technically they were. And we had no clue at the moment, you know? Yeah.
Speaker 2:I just the way that they the honor and just the privilege for them, they think about hospitality, it's just different. They're willing and able. They're told, right, and called in in their thoughts and beliefs that they should always be willing at all times and ready to host and be hospital. So they have a spot in their house for drinks, for food specifically, just for hosting.
Speaker 1:Just if somebody shows up.
Speaker 2:If somebody shows up and they have stories and in their beliefs that in the past where people will show up, you're supposed to bring in anybody who shows to your door. Wow. And so they really take that serious and it's, yeah, the hospitality. And the thing too is, I tell people it's not like getting in North America where we invite people over for once, once or twice, that's good enough, we're best friends, you know? Yeah.
Speaker 2:But it's like every day you walk up the street, Hey, and have another thing, coffee with me, come have tea with me. Wow. And they just want to sit there, and sometimes they can't even speak English, and I can't speak their language, and it doesn't matter. We would just sit there. Wow.
Speaker 2:And it was just like Just enjoy each other's company. Just enjoy the company.
Speaker 1:Wow, which very foreign to what we would do in North America probably. Yes, yes. So how's that changed or has it changed how your family extends hospitality? You've been the receiver of their hospitality, has it changed the way you extend hospitality?
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely. I feel like the combination of my Southernness in America and now the Middle Eastern part of me is a
Speaker 1:combination. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And now it's like we constantly think about do we have food in the house and drinks if we need to host somebody? Like, never would have thought about that. Yeah. And two, every time we were hosted, we were given their best. So if you show up at my house, I'm probably not gonna give you a steak or
Speaker 1:shrimp. You're saving that steak for But tomorrow
Speaker 2:for them, man, they're just like, Nope, here it is. Wherever that comes from and their beliefs or whatever, it's such an honor. And so anyway, I say that to say like, I've had to really question myself, what does it mean to really serve someone and be hospitable So in that it's, yeah, it's actually made me question and think through it more.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure. Yeah, that's amazing. You guys have learned a little bit of the language, right?
Speaker 2:Or how's your A little bit. My Arabic's very,
Speaker 1:very little. Minimal? Minimal. Maybe we'll see if this lands. I'm gonna ask some question about the language.
Speaker 2:Okay. But
Speaker 1:I'm wondering if it equates even to some of this aspect of the hospitality or the culture of hospitality. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. But the question is this, what's a word or a phrase in Arabic that you wish we had in English? Like that captures a feeling that we don't quite have a word for. You know how sometimes you say something in another language and somebody says, does that mean?
Speaker 2:Well, we don't really have an English word for that, right?
Speaker 1:But like, is there a word in Arabic that you're like, I love what it means, I wish we had a similar word in English.
Speaker 2:If you'd ask me in Mandarin Chinese, then sure. Man.
Speaker 1:You're quite the world citizen. I'm like If you would ask me in Mandarin. There
Speaker 2:is, and I'm trying to think of it. I've sat down and thought about it before, but
Speaker 1:I can't remember what it is. Alright. While you think about it, what's the what's your Mandarin answer? Because I think all the listeners are now Would be the
Speaker 2:simple the simple what is it? Oh, wait. Hold on. I talked about it with a friend the other day. I'm losing my mind.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I was thinking about which has like a different has like a it's saying go, but also it's it's an implore. It's a I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Well, I mean, that's for context, for those that don't speak Mandarin, literally translates to add oil. Oh, yeah. But it's what they chant or scream at like a sporting event or when they want their their favorite team or their favorite athlete to do well. Right?
Speaker 1:But it literally means to add oil.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh. It means to add oil. What an awesome meme. Yeah. Come on.
Speaker 1:But but yeah, any sporting event, and you're an athlete, so I mean, obviously that resonates with you, but like, that's what they would chant. Yeah. If you were doing something, competing at something, and they're cheering for you, right? Anyway, maybe our Mandarin speaking listener is gonna correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly. That sounds like it does.
Speaker 1:All right, well, speaking of language, what's a since your language is not all the way there, what's a funny misunderstanding that you've experienced and what did it teach you?
Speaker 2:Again, my first thought of that one is in Mandarin, but I'm trying to think, hold on.
Speaker 1:Nine years in Jordan, and you still think in Mandarin context.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and Spanish comes in my mind, and it's just like, it's all jumbled. Yeah. I mean, even when we're at the gym, there's so when we say in Arabic, you say which means beast. So but again, it's a they're gender specific language.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:You when you say that to men, have to say to women. But it's not always best for men to say that for women. Women can say it together, right? Uh-huh, yeah,
Speaker 1:I can see how that's probably not a great thing
Speaker 2:Yeah, to yeah. So I had heard it for a while, you know, and I thought, Oh yeah, I'm gonna use that in the gym, you know? Oh no. And so as you can imagine, I would say, either there were, you know, at the time there was guys working on one side and women, and I was coaching. I had this CrossFit class that I was coaching, there was like 30 people there.
Speaker 2:So half of it was men, half of it was women, and I'm walking by and I'm like, Wash, wash, good job guys, y'all beasts. Yeah, yeah. And then I go and tell it to the women, and one the ladies just kind of stop. Oh no. And I said, Asa for men, Asa for women, sorry.
Speaker 2:And then she just keeps going and I'm like, Oh, man, I've lost it. But actually at the end of the class, she came by and said, actually, it was really funny. Oh, And she said that. It was there, but then I was like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:So you didn't wasn't quite as
Speaker 2:offensive as Yeah, yeah, all that yeah. They're actually they're very gracious when it comes to language blunders, so
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's good. Yeah. Most cultures are, I find.
Speaker 2:Most cultures are. For giving
Speaker 1:it an effort, they actually think that's commendable versus offensive. Exactly, exactly. Yeah. So I mean, speaking of working in a gym, you've taught CrossFit, you've done a number of things in kind of the athletic realm in Jordan, and I'm sure you've built a lot of friendships in that. In that or any other context, like, tell me about a moment where you realized someone knew you and you knew them.
Speaker 1:Like, when when was that moment of we're kind of acquaintances and we jumped to friendship, and how did you build trust with
Speaker 2:that person? That's a great question, and that would probably be the owner of the gym that I worked at. And when we first met, we just kinda had you just kinda tell when you have a kindred spirit of someone, and for me, it was also like I was able to let him know of kinda my friends back home who he might have known about through CrossFit, through other sports. And so when we talked about the sport that we both love and just exercise in general, You know, it didn't take long to kind of hit off and become friends. And also for him, you know, for him and just for us as foreigners being in their culture, they feel comfortable sharing things with us that they wouldn't their own family and jobs.
Speaker 2:And so within minutes or hours, it's like, he would share things with me, I was just like, wow. Just because as foreigners, they feel a little more open and vulnerable and can But a lot of it had to do with because we had so many, we had this passion of exercise and people being healthy And then what that led to was even deeper conversations, right? So every time, most of the time that we see each other at this point, he's got another question about life. Wow. And it's, you know, even when wars are going on, what's crazy to think is the Jordanians that are in their 30s or 40s, even 50s are surprised by the war that's going on.
Speaker 2:I would have never imagined that, you know? Yeah. But as it started, I he and others just started asking more questions about what our thoughts were about it and why. Yeah. So it's I think what's bizarre is even when I was in Asia and even being in The Middle East now, sports is a thing that binds people, whether it's language, you have a language with each other or not, I think it helps, you can become friends a lot quicker and easier.
Speaker 2:So when you have a passion
Speaker 1:Yeah, similar passion, you find that common ground.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:But what you described me unique about The Middle East context, maybe the Jordanian context is a quickness to go deep. Like, I don't know if trust is implied faster or if it's there faster or if they're just, like you said, they'd rather talk to you or they'll trust you with information more than they would their own tribe or friends or local Yeah. So you have that common ground, but what I hear you saying is you get to the deeper friendship stage faster. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah, and then it's when you so as far as you know, like when you first have that friendship, they open up, but then you really know that you're invited into the family when they invite you to come for dinner
Speaker 1:Yeah. Or
Speaker 2:And again, we read about that biblically. It's like, man, when you get invited to the dinner table,
Speaker 1:it's
Speaker 2:a big deal, right? Yeah.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, so it's Do they perceive it the same if you reciprocate that? So you're inviting them to your house for dinner? Are they are you communicating the same thing to them? It's like, we're real friends now?
Speaker 2:If we were Arab, yes. Okay. But because we're foreigners, they don't expect us to invite them over to our and it's not a big deal to them if they don't. If we don't invite
Speaker 1:them. Gotcha.
Speaker 2:Okay. Because we're in their country
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:They always feel the honor that they have to host us. Always. Which I always tell them, you're gonna get overwhelmed. I joke with them, I'm like, are you sure you wanna do that? Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's still a lot of fun and yeah, their mindset is always on hosting. And you're just like, wow, it's amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Maybe this is what it is, I don't know. What do people often misunderstand about this region that you would, if you could kind of sit everybody down and set the record straight?
Speaker 2:They're just like me and you. They want the same things we want. They have financial issues like the rest of us. They have fears and worries and doubts like the rest of us. They want their kids to have good education, just like we do.
Speaker 2:They want food on the table all day, every day, right? Just like we do. I think when you sit down, so we've worked with refugees, and we've worked, I've worked with, in the gym, some of the richest people, and who are close even to the royal family. So like, the different dynamics of people that I've worked with, the irony is everybody has the same fears, worries, and doubts. And whereas the news has probably, I mean, for me, it was very hard to think that I'm coming over to this region.
Speaker 2:The news always made me think, well, of course, everybody's bad over here. Yeah. Right? And then when the first few days, as we talked about earlier, if we fly in and all they ever wanna do is host us and invite us over, know, you're just like Yeah.
Speaker 1:This is not It's quite the paradigm shift. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Wow. When the reality is even times of my Muslim friends are kinder than I am at times and more, you know, just like, wow, why? Where does that come from? And so anyway, it's just, I would want people to know they're humans just like we are.
Speaker 2:And for sure have the same, very similar thoughts of just normal life, and majority of the people in The Middle East actually don't want war. Right. Even though that's, you know, that's perceived in that way. Yeah. And actually a lot of them are afraid of it more than we think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's interesting. Yep. So if you could send a letter to yourself today that you would receive on your first day, what would you say to yourself?
Speaker 2:That's a good question. Yeah, first thing that came to my mind was to have patience. Things take now, okay, so let me just go back. Like, you can get into deep conversations quick.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:However, there's also a lot of things in life in The Middle East that take forever. So I guess what I can say is you can get into deep conversations quickly, but for them to for it to go deeper and to have deeper friendships and to go and to last longer,
Speaker 1:it
Speaker 2:it it takes time. I mean, I think I don't know how to describe that, but it's like, you know,
Speaker 1:yeah. So patience with relationships.
Speaker 2:Patience with relationships. Yeah. Patience with getting things done. Just daily lifestyle. Daily lifestyle.
Speaker 2:Grocery shopping, laundry. I think too, just with whether it's like you start a business there or you're trying to do stuff with visas or all these things, things that you think seem simple and should be quick and easy are always taking more time. Yeah. Yeah. A long time.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, you know, rethink your relationship with efficiency.
Speaker 2:Exactly. Because in The Middle East things, it's like they sip tea and coffee all day, and then after that's finished, then they get to where, you know, Yeah, it's like
Speaker 1:if you go in thinking our American mindset of efficiency over everything else Correct. You're gonna lose your mind pretty quick.
Speaker 2:Correct, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's good. But that's good advice. Yeah. I mean, that's what you that's people need to hear that.
Speaker 1:And I remember, you know, when I moved to China years ago, that was one of the pieces of advice was like, in America you can say, well, today I'm gonna go grocery shopping, I'm gonna do my laundry, I'm gonna work on this, I'm gonna clean my house. They're like, look, pick one of those things Exactly. And that's what you're gonna do because it just takes longer than you expect. And so that sounds very similar.
Speaker 2:I literally had that same conversation in my head last week at my house, like, I have 10 things to do, choose one today. There you go. Because that's all I can do.
Speaker 1:It's good advice. It's really And good
Speaker 2:if that one happens, if it actually works and you're successful, it's a win. Yeah. You
Speaker 1:actually get all the way through the task. Exactly. Don't get interrupted somewhere along the way or yeah, that's good. Yep. Okay, so thinking about your friends and family, whoever back home, when you were back in North America, what's a question you wish someone would ask you about your life there?
Speaker 2:Man. Wish they would or wouldn't ask.
Speaker 1:Well, that's good. I could ask that question.
Speaker 2:Well, it's another podcast. No, but I wish they would ask. I think yeah, focusing more on asking about the personal relationships and the just from our perspective, what has life been like different from what the news says? Yeah. What do we actually see as we're on the ground there always?
Speaker 2:Yeah, think yeah. And I think that's where I would I would probably ask, like, hey. I guess, ask more questions about how we do how are we doing necessarily? How's our relationships. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I I say that just because it's easy for people to think about what they see in the news, and those are easier questions to ask. Yeah. I guess get beat, asking more personal questions
Speaker 1:first. Yeah, yeah, instead of just broadly asking like, what's going on with this certain war situation or whatever I saw in the news or whatever, but actually how are you doing?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Tell me about friendships.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:You know, tell me about your friends that you hang out with. Right, correct. Yeah. Are your kids making friends? Kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because I can show you videos of what's going on overhead of us all day long, but
Speaker 1:Right, right, which are also on the news probably. It's also on the news. Yeah. But
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah. That's good.
Speaker 1:That's good. Speaking of, I wasn't planning to ask this necessarily, but how is it for kids and friendships and like, do your kids have friends, do they make friends, do they?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes and yes. I think, you know, obviously, think our original desire was that, okay, we're gonna be there. We want our kids to have local friends. Yeah. That's difficult, if I'm honest.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's hard because language, one part, culture, it's difficult for us anyway. I think there's other families that have found it to be helpful for them, but for us, I think it's been difficult, but at the same time, it's good for our kids because they go to a school where there are, of the two fifty kids that are there, there's 22 different countries that are represented. Oh my gosh. Which, that's like been a dream of mine for our kids.
Speaker 2:That's really cool. Being in a school that's full of people from different parts of the world. Yeah. So they have friends from Brazil, New Zealand, know, good old Canada, you know, place of North now. Just different parts of the world and we have, I guess, fewer local friends and more friends that are international just due to the city also that we're Yeah.
Speaker 2:And the and the school. So all that to say, yes, they've been able to make friends. We've been very thankful for the friends within the school, within our neighborhood. Yeah, it's been really we've been really thankful for that. And kids make friends easily.
Speaker 2:So it's Yeah, it's true. It makes it for a fun time too, Yeah,
Speaker 1:that's cool. Yeah. Well, I love getting to hear about your life there. Yeah. You wanted to hoping you'd get to share that you didn't share?
Speaker 1:Anything you were hoping I would ask that I didn't ask? Oh.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know. That's a good question. I'm sure I'll think of it later.
Speaker 1:You might. Well, Corey's been a fun conversation. Honestly, I learned a ton about Jordan and I learned a ton about your life there. Yeah. I didn't even know some of that stuff.
Speaker 1:They've There you been friends for a long time. Thank you. Thanks for being on the podcast. We'll land the plane right there. Cool.
Speaker 1:And we'll say goodbye to our listeners. And thank you guys for listening to another episode of Think Global where we say the world is our home and strangers become friends and friends become family. Our conversation with Corey showed some of that, of getting into the homes of people, of having meals with them, going deep in conversation with them, building those friendships. And over time, you get to see those friendships go deep. So Corey, thanks again for being here.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:And we look forward to the next one.
Speaker 2:Appreciate it.