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Being STRONG is more than just how much weight you can lift.
The Strong New York Podcast is dedicated to inspiring you to become your strongest self- in the gym, in business, in relationships and in life.
Join Kenny as he sits down with his strong as fuck buddies and shoots the shit on what it takes to be strong willed, strong minded and physically strong. Season one features everyone from entrepreneurs and local business owners to doctors and industry leaders in the fitness and wellness space.
With over a decade of experience, Kenny Santucci has made himself known as one of New York City’s top trainers and a thought leader in the health and wellness industry. After transforming his life at 15 years old through fitness, Kenny made it his mission to transform the lives of those around him.
Kenny has trained some of Hollywood’s biggest stars, including Jon Bon Jovi, Liev Schreiber, and Frank Ocean, and has been tapped as a fitness expert sharing his training approach with Men’s Health, Men’s Journal, Runner's World, SHAPE, Well+Good, among other publications.
Kenny is the creator of STRONG New York, NYC's only Health and Fitness Expo. Strong New York is an immersive day of workouts, wellness experiences, panel discussions, and inspiring conversations with the best in-class wellness professionals, industry leaders, and change makers who are sharing their expertise on today's hottest wellness trends and first-hand experiences on how to optimize your overall health and life.
You can find Kenny at The Strength Club, his private training and group strength training facility in the heart of Manhattan located on 28th and 5th Ave in New York City.
This episode is powered by Celsius. Now, whether you're in the gym or you're on the run, or hey, you're just doing a podcast, grab yourself a can of Celsius and live fit. So this is a shameless pitch for strong New York. September 27th, right at the Glass House on 48th and 12th Avenue, we are throwing the biggest fitness and wellness event this city has ever seen.
Every year it gets bigger and bigger. This year we'll have 5,000 people, 80 plus brands, and you will be there. So make sure you get your tickets@strongnewyork.com. It's that simple. All right. Hey, and we're ready to start our episode on that note. We're ready, rock. Alright, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of the Strong New York podcast.
I'm your host, Kenny Santucci, and as always, we are powered by my favorite drink is now a sponsor of the podcast Celsius. So grab yourself one and live fit because it's gonna get you in a better mood. Now, uh, my next guest today, uh, we tried to do this once before and he's a very busy man, very handsome, very charming, uh, and also very intimidating.
And another guy I actually slid into his dms and, uh, probably weirded him out at first, but without further ado, Dr. Jordan Shallows. No, I appreciate that, man. This is a, it's a full circle moment. Yes. Strong New York. 28 19. 2018. 29 18. Yeah, that was a, you guys didn't know, but that was a, that was a rough point in my life.
Give it, give, I showed up to strong New York. Uh, at the time would've put boots on with Yeah. 'cause it was the only things I owned my black Timberlands, uh, sweatpants that I probably trained in for the last week. And a a shirt adorning my company's logo, which was the only thing I owned to my name. That shirt was like hanging off your body.
Yeah, I, so I, prior to that, I was living in my car in the San Francisco International Airport for the last six months. Holy shit. And I would trade like seminars, you know, about biomechanics for like flights and hotel rooms. So I didn't have to sleep in my car. So, so when I slid in your dms, what the hell were you thinking?
So, yeah, no idea. I think I had a couple of friends who had done the event the year before. Looked like fun, heard it was cool. I was actually at my sister's wedding. I dunno if you remember when you slid into my dms. I was overseas in Australia. Okay. And we like hopped on a call right away. Yeah. And then it was lock and then from that call.
To the event. My life just went in the dumpster, like it was. I, I, I was, was, I was married, got divorced, was living in the San Francisco Bay area, just graduated. Uh, grad school was, uh, you know, this is what I always tell people, like this is when you know you're a meathead and you're broke. As I used to do this thing where, you know, I was a competitive power lifter at the time and where my car was parked.
If I were to go to the grocery store and drive, I would have. The ability to buy more food because I didn't have to carry it. Mm-hmm. Um, but I couldn't because if I drove, I'd have to get gas. So I didn't have enough money to buy all the food that I could get. But if I walked, but then I'd be burning calories and it was pretty far, but I'd have more money.
But I'd have to go there and back twice because I only had like my gym bag that I would put all my groceries in. So it's like, okay, I can't carry all the food I could buy, but am I gonna burn more Cal? This is literally how I had to think. 'cause I was like, I was probably pushing 2 80, 2 85, 2 90 a 0.0 shit.
And I was like, okay, so what? How much calories am I gonna burn? Walking there without groceries, back with a full load of groceries, back with no groceries, and then back with a full load of groceries. Or is the net calorie to finance surplus Better if I just drive, spend the money on the gas, but then just get what I can.
But I'm driving so I'm not burning calories. So which one of these allows me to be stronger at the end of the day? So you're, you're doing meat head math at this point? Oh yeah. And you're in probably wrong California. Yeah, because gas is probably just as expensive as any food you were buying. Seriously, how'd you keep up your size?
Because when I met you, you were still a big dude. Oh yeah. Yeah. So what came first? Gas or food? Food, yeah. It was well size because I would do shit like this. It was like whatever it took for me to be strong, like whatever it took. And at that time, what were you like, what were you doing for money? So, so here's the funny part.
I had graduated as a chiropractor. I was opening, or I worked at two practices, worked as a strength coach at Stanford University and was also a chiropractor at Apple. I. The Bay Area is just so financially untenable that I was still living in my car. Holy shit. Yeah. So then when you messaged me, 'cause at the time before that I was doing like a seminar.
Maybe two seminars a month. Yeah. So I'd like practice, you know, try to get my, my business off the ground. I actually started my digital business in, in 2016, so that was like, we were trying to get that going with my business partner and I was training and then I was working 16 hours a day driving all over the South Bay area.
So I would go to my business partners, Jim in Santa Clara at like 5:00 AM have some meetings with him and then I would go from there to my office in Mountain View, see like one or two people maybe. And then I would go from there to Cupertino and I would work at Apple for a bit. And then I would go, uh, up to Stanford and we would have like, I was a strength coach, so we'd do workout later after the kids were done class.
And then I had an office in the East Bay in this gym called CSAI would rip across the East Bay. It seems like you're making some money though. No. 'cause do, I mean, if you know the, the Bay Area, like I. You're just, you, you a drive from Santa Clara. If your day starts in, I, where was I living at the time?
Campbell, which is just over the hill from Los Gatos, Campbell, Cupertino, Palo Alto, mountain View, Dublin, and ba. Like you're just blown. Yeah. You're, you're literally, I mean, I was, I, I was getting so much experience like that was the trade off. Like I, you know, working in a corporate gig like Apple in my profession, right outta the gate, like, you're gonna get numbers, like numbers.
Like, if there was 250 people a week, I would see, then I would go to my own practice and then I would see like, you know, I. I was new in practice, no one knew who I was not from California. So I would see, you know, maybe five people a week, sometimes none, sometimes 10. Um, but yeah, you just, you can't, between the food and the gas and, you know, trying to pay rent and getting divorced and it was, uh, yeah.
So then, you know, fast forward you called me and were like, yo, it's, it's, uh, I think it was November 30th I flew to New York and it was like December 1st. There was the event. I was like, fuck this. Between now and then we flew you out, right? Oh yeah, yeah. Dude, you took, I remember the hotel and everything.
It was like, it was for me, it was like, I don't know what making it is. I still don't know what making it is, but I made it when you like, fly me out, like, oh, let's, let's, let's go. I, I was like, look, I'm gonna try and string together as much as I can. I'm gonna sell this stupid fucking car and I'm just gonna go on the road full time.
'cause I was doing, like I said, like one to two events a month. And then I would fly back into SFO and it was basically like, I just wanted the hotel room so I didn't have to shower in the gym. And, uh, usually like the person who flew me out would like take me out to dinner so I didn't have to eat fucking cans of tuna and like oats and protein and shit.
Jesus. And, uh, it was, it was rough times. And, uh, so, so I ended up, like some people reached out. I was able to go, I, I went from New York to London to Beirut, back over to the states. Miami, competed in, uh, competed down in, um, in Miami. Went to Chicago, Houston, LA and that was a month in Australia. So I ended up with like, strong was my, my, my sink or swim, like strong New York 2018, whatever it was, was like, you're either gonna go back to Mike and Louise, shallow in Windsor, Ontario with your tail tucked between your legs after this and or you're gonna figure it out.
And so I did your event, then went over, uh, the Middle East and then I went around Australia and by the time I. I've finished your event, all the media, all that shit. Yeah. You get a couple of dms like, Hey, when are you available to do a seminar? I'm like, well, you know, this is January. So it wasn't available until like the end of March.
And uh, so I was like, okay, like dope. Yeah. I got one extra weekend, so I got an extra weekend until I gotta go back to my fucking parents' place. Actually, the first person tell you who it was, Ray, he rest in peace was John Meadows. No shit. Because I remember spending the, I remember watching the Super Bowl with John and his, and, and his wife and his two kids Wow.
In Ohio. I, I stayed at his house and this for me was like, bye-bye. Just melted. Like, I have no idea what my life is like. I, and I remember telling this to him and anyone who, who knows John and watches his content, he, he was always really big on the specific type of butter from Trader Joe's. Mm-hmm. And I was like, oh my God.
And I told him this in person when he picked me up, like, dude, I've been buying the same butter for like 10 years. 'cause you made a YouTube video about it. And so I went from. I did that whole trip and then when I went to Australia, they, two or three more people reached out. And so what ended up being, or what ended up starting as three months on the road with strong ended up being about four and a half years of like not having a mailing address and just like one event to the next, to the next got like, you know, the education company I own, got a contract with some, some gyms in Canada, well something like 400 gyms in Canada, Jesus, and international.
So I would fly from Halifax, Nova Scotia to Singapore and then to Toronto, like back to Toronto, to Sydney, Australia. And I would just like, oh, I was just running scared for like four and a half years. But you were the first one. Wow. Yeah. You know, it's always darkest before dawn, right? Well, it's actually darkest in the middle of the night, but yeah, it was, it was like really dark before that was like.
Yeah, it, it, it was, uh, that was a turning point for sure though. Like, well I, you know, when I first asked you to do it, you were like, well, what the hell do you want me to talk about? Yeah. It's like all these, 'cause I just thought you were so real and raw on social media that really came through. I mean, now you just got fancy pictures and shit up all the time.
But at that point I think you were just like spitting, you know, the truth and what I kind of gravitated towards. What do you say to people who think that chiropractic is bullshit? I don't, man, like, I don't know. It's, I get it. I understand like, you know, I have to suffer some, some ne and recently, right, some negative bad press.
I dunno if you saw People Magazine, there was like an article that there's always people saying shit. Yeah, yeah. And it's, you know what, like, I, I, I don't really care. Yeah. Like that type of criticism is like. It was kind of for the birds, like early in my career, I maybe took it as a bit of a slight, but like, it's a piece of paper, it's a receipt.
I can bill insurance companies if I want to, but like, I don't really care and I don't care to go down like the old trope of like, wow, there's bad dentists and there's good dentists. Like, I don't fucking care about dentists either. Like I just have a job and I do it and you know, people fuck with me. And like, I don't run a normal, a normal practice.
Like I do think that a lot of people who have an issue with the, the conventional practice are right. And you know what? It, and I, and I, I empathize to the plight of the practitioner who goes down that road. 'cause like you graduate with this degree and you're like, okay, now what? And unless you're really willing to eat shit and get creative and not sell out, like it's a siren song to like bill someone's insurance and tell people to come back once a week for like ever.
So you can pay the stupid fucking piece of paper off, like mm-hmm. It's really like this, this, this, uh, this aura boros until you finally just eat your own tail. So I feel like you said strong was like the turning point for you, but you know, I saw that kind of uptick in your social, you were just doing a lot more.
Um, I, I think for me just watching your story and watch it all unfold, I think like when I saw you with Shaq, I was like, my boys made it. He's top of the food chain. There is very few people that I admire, like, I admire Shaq. Like he's one of those guys where I'm like, he seems like the coolest motherfucker on the planet.
Yeah, it was Everyone I know who knows him, loves him. It was so random. I, I was working at a facility with a, an athlete Brandon Marshall, down in Westin, Florida, and I remember having this staff meeting. I. I was late for it. It was like every Wednesday. Every Wednesday at like 10:00 AM And they were, he was B Marsh was like big on this, like, gotta be at the staff meeting.
And it was, I was working with a, uh, a great athlete, great dude. I think he's still playing ball somewhere. His name is Amari Rogers. Okay. And I was like in the back room, lost track of time and, and I don't fucking like meetings bro. Like I'd rather train football players. And so I was like, fuck, like this is gonna be bad.
So there's this back way, like up to kind of sneak into the meeting. And as I walk into the meeting, Shaq walks in the front door of the building and I was like, whoa. Saved by the bell because everyone was just like, they, everyone was just about to look up to see the door crack at the top of the stairs.
And then right at the bottom of the stairs, Shaq walked in. I was like, and it was like meeting adjourned, right? Yeah. And, uh, so B Marsh goes, dApps him up, whatever. And so everyone's kind of breaking away, you know, that building probably had 30, 40 people on staff and I'm talking to one of the other coaches or whatever and, and next thing you know, I hear my name.
And it was, Brandon called me over and he's like, introducing me to Shaq, which like, I I, you've been around like, you know, super famous people before. I always love when they introduce themselves. Yeah. And like, Hey, hey, my name is Shaquille. No shit, bro. Like, no shit. And I'm like, yeah, great to meet you. And, and I don't even wanna do an impression of him, but he was just like, uh, Brandon was like, I forget what, maybe it was like a shoulder or something like that.
And he is like, you gotta get with, you gotta get with uh, Shaq. You gotta get his shoulder right. And then he goes, he just like, not, like, doesn't say a word, just goes, oh, I was thrown through a table. I was like, does, I'm sorry, did you say you were thrown through a table? He goes, I was on Monday night Raw.
You didn't see it. And I was like. Did you say Monday? Did you say Monday Night Raw? I was like, no, I didn't see, I was like, I was like, man, the big show, oh, I was gonna say was, who the fuck do we, I I don't even know if it was a big, I don't know. I, my, my whole, my brain was just melting on site. I was just like, what the fuck is happening right now?
And he is so, he is like, basically we're like, yeah. I'm like, yeah, get my number from B Marsh. Like, we'll, we'll, we'll make it happen. And uh, like I'm just shaking this off. What the fuck was that? I get my car and I go to leave. I'm halfway down the street and I'm on a call with my business partner, Jordan, uh, gto.
And, uh, my phone keeps ringing. I keep denying the call 'cause I'm on supposed to be on his work thing and I'm like, look bro, I, this number keeps calling me. Lemme get rid of it. I answer. And it's the gym. The girl working the front desk, I think was her name was Anna, and she goes, Hey, it's Anna from the gym.
Uh, Shaq has requested you come back. And I'm like, okay. So I went to my business partner. I'm like, look man, I gotta, I. You're not gonna believe me, so I'm gonna keep you on the call. Yeah. But Shaquille O'Neal just asked that I come back to the gym and he's like, you're right. I don't believe you keep me on this fucking call.
Yeah. So I, I double back and I go into the gym and sure enough he's standing there in gym close and I like, turn the camera. And I'm like, I'll call you back. And he goes, what the fuck is? And I hang up and I was like, okay. He's, and yeah, he's, to this day, his name is saved in my phone as Shaq, my new bodybuilder client.
And for, yeah, we, we would train, we trained together that summer. And he is, he is the coolest person. Uh, yeah. I was in Vegas, what, what fuck is in Vegas? Like a, a year or two ago? Three or four, three years after I trained him. And I'm just like walking down Las Vegas Boulevard. Uh, how's it going, coach? And I'm like.
What are you doing? I'm playing a show, DJ Big Diesel, and I'm like, okay, man. Like you great to see it be great to see you, dog. It's, uh, he kinda sound like, but yeah, that was, I, you know, yeah. The, there's a couple of people I got linked with in that world that like, just, I mean, obviously he's an athlete.
Yeah. Um, it's been a weird feel. Like he's a, he's a brand cultural, like well, he's a brand. Yeah. Yeah. Like he is Coca-Cola, may, uh, Donny t and Shaq are probably the most recognizable Oh, for sure. Things on the planet. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. He's one of those people, he's like, beloved anywhere he goes, and rightfully so.
And now, who else have you worked with? Uh, we're gonna do this. Uh, okay. I mean that, that like, kind of, you were like, all right, this is pretty cool. Oh. Uh, it's usually like the non-athletes that are the, and not that, I mean, I like all the athletes I work with, but some people that have kind of. Uh, I mean the, well, New York guys, uh, Andrew Schultz and, and Akosh sing and Oh yeah.
Yeah. Smart guys are the flagrant guys. That was a fun, how'd you get hooked up with those guys? So, random bro. So random. This is just goes to tell like, maybe there is takeaways from this, but like, uh, it was, it was probably, it was around the same time. 'cause I would go from, there were days where I would see Schultz in the morning and then I would go from Schultz to see Shaq and, you know, then from Shaq to like Leonard Fornet.
So you just get the whole spectrum before lunch. And, uh, so I was staying at my friend Hayden's house down in, down in Miami. 'cause I was dodging like the crazy COVID rules in Canada. I was just like, yo, I'm getting out. I'm coming down. Like, I, I just can't. Be dealing with whatever the government's got going on.
And, uh, it was probably worse in fucking New York at one point. It was, it was crazy. It was enough where I was concerned of like, okay, if I get in one of these situations, I don't want to, I, I don't want to put myself in a situation where I know I'm gonna react in a way that wouldn't be good. So I just did it.
Got, you know, got down to Miami for some reason. You don't look like a rule follower. Yeah, and look, it's to, to, to each their own. But like, you know, I'll tell you what it was, there was a news story that had gone out about people getting $800 fines for being in a car with someone who's on their driver's license.
They didn't have the same home address. And I was like, oh, I, I'm gonna get in a confrontation. This is like, I'm not letting that slide right. Like, cashier doesn't take my coupon like it's on site. So like this, I know this is gonna be a problem. So I'm like, fuck it. I call him Buddy Hayden. I was like, Hey man, I'm coming to Couch Surf.
And so I'm like living in this place. He's out. He just bought this really cool motorcycle. This uh, this old cafe racer, this BMW the night before I was there when the kid came and dropped it off and, you know, he's, he's out, uh, I remember it's specifically, it was Vice Coffee in Midtown by City Bean in Midtown on Northwest Second Ave.
And he was, you know, in there doing work. He, you know, it was a digital business. And he comes home and he's like, bro, take a look at this. And he's showing me this video. I still have the video on my phone showing me this video. And it's him filming Schultz. Um, I think it was Dove, the, the producer and, uh, mark and like maybe Akosh, like the four of 'em, kind of like circling the bike.
Yeah. And he was so paranoid because, you know, Miami's like. Shit goes missing in Miami all the time For sure. So he is like filming it, but he's not realizing who he's filming. Right. He's just like, I'm filming the guys if my bike goes missing so I can bring this to the cops and they'll never find it. Or like, I dunno what his thought process was.
But afterwards, they, they came into the coffee shop and they, they saw his, uh, his helmet. So they started chatting with him and they're like, oh, like, you know, that's your bike. It's cool. Like, tell me a little bit about it. 'cause it, it was a pretty unique, uh, pretty unique bike and he still like, didn't really get who it was.
And then it clicked who it was. It, it, it was, and so he's showing me this video. He's like, oh, like what an opportunity. 'cause he owned a gym. Shit. Hybrid. Yeah, yeah. Five, five blocks away maybe. Yeah, yeah. Northwest second Ave. 20th Street. Yeah. Maybe like 10 blocks away. And I was like, yo, send me the video.
And he's like, what? I'm like, send me the video. I'll post it. Like I took it like I was fucking wherever and I'll tag you both in it. So I'll be like, oh, you know, at Schultz and Akosh and uh, mark Dove flagrant. Checking out at Hayden Bow's bike, uh, like, welcome to Miami or something like that. And I'm like, oh, this is perfect.
They'll like, they'll be like, oh, that's a guy we talked to. Follow him. See that, you know, Hayden had a, like a platform and a gym and a bus. Like, you know, that he is not just some schlep at a coffee shop that he's like, you know, this established dude. And like, they'll make that link. Obviously he didn't want to do it 'cause it's like, you know, it'd be, it'd be looking like he was trying to put it on.
I'm like, I don't give a fuck, dude. Like, I'll never meet these guys in my life. Like, I'll, I'll, I'll take the bullet, like I'll be that guy for you and I'll post like I'm staying in your fucking house. So he sends me the video and I post it and fucking five minutes later, Andrew messages me and is like. I need a trainer, let's rock.
And I was like, uh, yeah, 8:00 AM Monday. Here's the address. And he goes, bet. See you there. And then like, no shit. Yeah. Yeah. You train him at hybrid. At hybrid. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sick. Yeah. It was interesting. And then Akosh came, I mean, I was just with a Akosh was like, he's family. And then Mark came, and I think at one point I, I worked with, uh, Alex, and I'm pretty sure Alex owns part Own the media.
Studio. Media, yeah. Alex, Alex Media. Yeah. Yeah. So it's that. I, I like the, I mean, training is training, right? Mm-hmm. And, and you get this better than anyone, right? Like if, what's the point of the reps and sets if there's not a good story, right? Like, I fuck about what, what are we doing? Are we squatting?
Mm-hmm. We're gonna bench press with dumbbells today, we're gonna do it with the bar. Like, fuck off. Like, I think it's the connection that you have with the person. Like, do you genuinely, like I think I've stayed in the industry for so long and enjoy it because I genuinely enjoy the, the contact and hanging out with other people.
I can't think of another profession where. I'm kind of in control and I get to hang out with somebody I'd like to hang out with. I, I've gotten the opportunity train some really cool people and I enjoy it. And yet, like you said, like the normal people are some of the best people, like people you would unexpectedly have a great time with and hang out with.
I have this 85-year-old guy that I train who's loaded out his fucking ears. I love hanging out with him 'cause he's just got this cynical way of looking at life. Mm. Like he's made so much money and he's, he's outlived basically everybody he's friends with. And now he's like, I just got money. And he fucking throws it around and you know, he's just enjoying life.
He's got a fucking Porsche. He could barely get in and out of the thing. Oh, good for him, right. Good for him. Just loving it. But with, you know, because I went through a similar situation right before I got to Solace. I was like, I mean, Christie remembers me at this point. I was living outta my car too, and I was sleeping in front of Solace.
So because I was bartending at night. I'd work all day and then I'd open the gym at five, six in the morning and then go back in my car and I had all my shit in my car, so I would just park it outside Solace or the parking lot down the street. And I did that for almost what, two years. And, and everybody's like, why you doing that?
I was like, 'cause I need to be here. I need to work as many hours as I can. Um, and I was like, this is what I wanna do. And I'm like, fuck it. And everybody's like, oh my God. I don't tell it as a sob story. You know, when you tell that story to me as someone who went through it as like similar situation, it just makes this point of our lives that much better and lets me know that if I had to do it again, I could.
I don't want to, but I could. Yeah. It's almost like it when you work that way. You can call it working hard, whatever. You know, I, I don't really care to like aggravate people. 'cause people, there's this whole like, bro entrepreneur culture that is like anti working hard. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, okay, you should call it what you want.
Call it, call it what you want. Yeah. When you. Building relationships that way and building connections that way was what going viral is today. Mm-hmm. Like that's what you can lean on now. Right. And it's like, that wasn't really an option back then. Right. People don't realize that like, you know, we were having this conversation off air like 20 minutes ago that like this, all this standard issue.
Like I walk in here, I'm like, oh, you got black magic set up a 10 board. I'm a chiropractor. Mm-hmm. Are you Joe? Why? I am also an audio visual engineer. Why do the fuck do I know anything about this spider's nest of a fucking fire hazard? Because I had to, right. Like all of this was like part of developing the brand and the business and all that.
But now this is like, this is outta the box for people. Mm-hmm. Like, like I remember seeing 4K stuff. Come out by like a sovereign person that wasn't like Nike. And I'm like, what the fuck is this? Yeah. This is like an IMAX movie, is an Instagram post. I was putting my fucking iPhone five C on a tripod on my treatment table in my fucking 180 square foot office.
And, and, and that was it. And it's like, but because, and that was your only option. Like you had to do that whatever you had access to and sleep in your car. Mm-hmm. And fucking, you know, and, and it's not grind. It's just like, I don't know, do you want to be good, like, good at your job or that's, that's all you had.
Like, that's all you could lean on. Yeah. You know, nowadays I think people take for granted how much access they have. I was talking to Gunnar Peterson about it a while ago, and he was saying that he had some kid come up to him and he is like, yeah, but in your day it wasn't as competitive, so nobody was around.
I'm like. What are you an idiot? I was like, in the eighties, nobody even took this as like a real thing. Yeah. Nobody was fucking hiring. I love how you had a supply and demand. You have to teach basic economics to this person. Yeah. I'm like, dude, you know, when they, how you had to get in touch with this guy on a fucking landline.
Yeah. It's crazy. We've evolved so much. So, I mean, your business exploded, right? If you don't mind a me asking. Yeah, yeah. Like when did you start making real fucking cash where you're like, all right, fuck this. Yeah. The fuck. That's tough. I mean, I don't know if I'm at that point where I could say, fuck this.
Um, there there'll be signs though. Face tattoos. Face tattoos. That's where we're at. I fuck this. Um, it's tough. It's been, I, I feel like a frog boiling in water. You know, I don't really know when it's gotten that hot where it's just like, COVID was a blessing for us, I think, because we were digital pre 2020.
Mm-hmm. Um, so what ended up happening really post. Uh, post Strong 2018 was, started doing seminars a lot, started documenting it on socials. Had, you know, there was a time where I was actually the, our first strategic hire was a photographer to fly with me. No shit. So all Laura Griffith, you know, God bless your soul wherever you're at.
This girl would fly with me to all over in North America, like for months on end. Like would leave her fiance, fly with me, live in my shitty Airbnbs, and, you know, eat fucking ground beef and rice with fucking mustard and shit. Like she was a gamer, bro. I think I, didn't I meet her? Oh yeah, she would've, you would've met her.
She probably would've been outta strong. Yeah. Yeah. She was awesome. Yeah. It's unreal. Like, yeah. She was a beast. Dude, dude. Like I, you just now, like, you know, you can't find people like that because that was her story. No. Yeah. Right now she's at, she goes to Olympia and she makes these cool, like playing cards of all like stead and all that shit.
Like, and people are going to her to like learn how to edit and she's doing Yeah. She's like, but that was her grind, right? That was her story. And like, it, it didn't feel like a grind, you know, we, we, we, you just, your, yeah, we'd be dog tired. We'd be in like, Halifax getting some shitty pizza and it was great.
Like it was, but, uh, so the way it would work was I would teach seminars in some capacity from, you know, usually like Friday to Sunday or Saturday and Sunday. I would travel on Monday and then I would develop. So I was writing our first textbook for the first little bit, and then I released our first course, probably the, the next year.
And I would teach online during the week. And then I would just do this every, it was on rinse, repeat. Every single week was, Monday was a travel day. I would, you know, write, develop the course, um, you know, create the slides, write the landing page, copy, do some marketing stuff. And, you know, Tuesday I would like teach the course.
And, you know, we started off small. I think our first cohort had like 17 people in it, and it lasts for 16 weeks. And, you know, and then they tweak it and write more. And then we got the book, you know, published and then, you know, we're like, oh, I need like, another course. So it was just that on repeat. And then once COVID hit, we had this like real, like this almost, um, the, the stalemate of, we were, I was still doing a ton of in-person.
I had 45 weeks. Booked out past that. Like COVID was really what kind of, you know, slowed things down a little bit in person. It was still traveled through that, through that entire time. And, um, so we had to refund six figures worth of tickets, holy shit. For the rest of the year. Like I I, I took the last flight out of, uh, uh, British Columbia, Canada, March 14th, 2020, and the world shut down, like the event I was gonna, the Arnolds in Oz in Melbourne.
I was flying from, um, I was flying from Vancouver to Melbourne and you know, you know, God bless Tony, uh, Dougherty. 'cause he was like, yeah, no mate. Like come, we'll figure it out. Like Tony's a, he's just a legend. He'll, he'll till the last breath is in that guy's lungs. He was gonna work to make this fucking event.
And uh, I'm in the air and I get, he goes, mate, mayhem, we gotta cancel the event. I'm like, fuck dude. You know, had to shit like shelter and play or whatever that fucking, yeah. Um, you know, you had to lock down for two weeks and. Then you were stuck in Oh yeah, I was stuck in Australia for, I mean, I traveled around and still actually did some teaching domestically around Oz.
Um, but, you know, we had a refund. We, we were doing stuff in Saudi, we were doing stuff in India, we were doing stuff in, and, you know, eight, nine months out, people had already bought tickets or already put like down payments or, or deposits. I email inbox the next morning, must have been 30, 40 k worth of like, refund requests.
And you're like, yeah, sure, no problem. Yeah. Fuck. Like, yeah, but we had a digital semester that would've been starting like two or three weeks after, and we just pushed that up and then all of a sudden it was like, okay, oh shit, we've, we've caught fire. Because there was no scramble. There was no pivot. We were already online.
We had done a few semesters by then, we had our systems in place. We were already known, so we wasn't like a forced thing of like, oh, like this is just like a cash grab. It's like, no. Like, this is how we want to do it. Yeah. It helped, like for me, it just was supplemental to the in person. 'cause like, I really like the in-person and, you know, the digital, it replicated that a little bit.
Right. And, uh, yeah, it was around that time where the numbers started to really climb. So I, when they told us everything was gonna be locked down, you can't leave your house, blah, blah. I go, I, I said, all right, let's make some lemonade here. Yeah. And the first thing I signed up for was pres script. Really?
That's so funny. See, you're a part of this point, Chris. Chris, wasn't I I, yeah. We both did it. Did you? Yeah. Were you on. We were on. I was so scattered. I was just, so, we were on that first group that first week. So wild. Yeah. So we, that was the first thing we did. And I took like three courses during that time.
Yeah. Like that three week period, uh, that two week, three week period that like, they wouldn't let anybody leave the house. I was like, I'm gonna go work out every day and I'm gonna fucking learn no shit. And that's what I did. Good on you. Yeah. It was, uh, it was interesting. And I, I think there a part of that, like, almost like Stockholm Syndrome Yeah.
Of like some of our early adopters. Like we've had, we're soon to have our first like, uh, pre script wedding, but we've had like business. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's great. Yeah. Like, like mines. Right. How many people have you put through it now?
Across all of our courses in the 10 plus thousand. Holy shit. Yeah. Great. Yeah, it's been good. And, and we're still small. Yeah. As far as I'm concerned. Like you think, you think about somebody like Mike Boyle Yeah. Is probably put. Huh. I mean, he's been fucking doing it for, what, 30 years? Yeah. Easy. Yeah. Yeah.
And he's put hundred, it, it's gotta be close to a hundred thousand people. That's wild. Think about it. Like anytime he's done it, he does 'em all over the world. Yeah. You know, 30, 40 people in a fucking group. Yeah. Constant. He's got what, level three levels to it. Yeah. Yeah. Fuck. It's crazy. It's a lot. Yeah.
There's, there's some good money to be made in that shit. I hope so. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it's, it's fun though, like, you know, we've done something interesting that. Was on my radar from the jump, which was like, I, I remember having a great conversation with Pat Davidson. Um, fuck it would've, it would've been back at Hype Gym.
Um, maybe it was 2021. Maybe it was No, would've been before that. Yeah. And he's like, look, personal training is a trade, like an electrician, right? Like you, you have a journeyman and you go through and you put in your hours and it should be seen as that. And I was like, fuck. That's like, yeah, that's like powerful, right?
Like, it, it is a career and a profession. You can make a lot of money, but there's, you know, the old, uh, you know, in theory there's no difference between practice and theory, but in practice there is, right? You can read all the books all you want. It's just, this is all just a representation. It's like, can you bring it?
And so I was like, okay, how do I build something that can vet the actual work product at the end of the day? So now, like our level three is you fly into Tampa, Florida, and then when I train kids to prepare for the NFL combine, you train the kids with me. So you're, you're only gonna get. You know, we had three kids go in the first round last year.
Oh shit. And three the year before that, and the year before that, and the year before that. So now it's like, okay, level one and two are like, you know, applied biomechanics, functional anatomy, learn how the damn body works, um, but then learn how the damn body works for a kid that's, uh, let's pick one off the shelf.
I'm not gonna say his name, but he went in the first round last year he was 335 pounds, six foot four. And you know, a hand time 40 probably put him at like a high four seven. Wow. Yeah. Like, okay. It's a big boy. That's a freight train. Yeah, that's a freight train with dreadlocks. Like that's, that's, that's in.
And it's like, okay, so you know about hip internal rotation. Have fun. Right. Can you bring it? Can you communicate? Can you, can you close distance? Can you keep their attention? Can you use small enough words? Can you use big enough words? Can you, can you read body language? Right? Like, do you know what people do when they get too close to this guy?
They get put on their ass. Like that's what he does. He grabs people to get in his face and he smashes 'em into the turf. So it's like, you gotta stick and move with this guy. Yeah, like this Dan, you're gonna be like Muhammad Ali in this. So I hated, and I've learned to, you know, I hate such a strong word, but I.
Certifications were just a thing that you had to do. Mm-hmm. Right? You just had to like, and I remember being a kid, I'm, shit, I was 17 when I think, when I started training. Look, go, go take the course and when you get your piece of paper, you come back here and we'll teach you how to train. Well, what, what the fuck?
What a dumb piece of paper. Yeah. Yeah. Why do I need to go on a quest to get this, this paper quest before I give a fucking job? Just like, why don't we just skip all the questing and just let me do the shit, shit, and just fucking do the thing that we're gonna do? Like, ah, I gotta go get the, the paper. And I was like, fuck this stupid thing.
And so now it's like, okay, now we're at a point where, you know, we'll have conversations like I, I'm not gonna say his name, but we had a coach go through and, uh, he was working with an offensive lineman on the Miami Dolphins, and this was off season, so he was working with a pro guy, not even a, a combine, uh, prospect.
And like, he's a professional football player and he's an absolute animal of a human being. Mm-hmm. But as a human being, he's a sweetheart. Like, you know, the, the, the every stereotype of like the big teddy bear, whatever. Yeah. This guy to a tee, very kind goes out of his way to see everyone like dabs everyone up.
But when he's training, he's a professional athlete. There's so many like football and basketball players where I'm meet them and I'm like, why are you such a nice guy? Yeah. It's odd that there's like such teddy bear, but then they just get that flip switch and sun Sunday be somewhere else. Yeah. Right.
Yeah. And so crazy. I remember because it's like, it is just such a learning opportunity. This story always sticks out. This guy, I'm not gonna say his name was like spotting him on a incline dumbo press or whatever it was, and mind this guy's three 30, but he's like, sir, he, he has, he, this particular athlete has his own personal chef that flies with him.
Like he's serious here. You know, you put on G Herbo and he's gonna like rock out, but like, don't get it twisted. This guy come to work and. I see him get up from the bench with one of our coaches behind him and storm past me and he just goes, you better check your boy. And I'm like, oh, what the fuck could have possibly happened?
And I was like, well this is not good. And he was flabbergasted. I had no idea why. And he came over to to, to us some of the guys he was familiar with. And he is like, he goes, yeah, during the set he told me to be more deliberate. He goes, I'm a professional athlete. I've been a professional athlete in this league for f four years plus I played college at whatever, whatever program he's got.
Everything I do is deliberate. Who the fuck do you think you're talk? And I was like, oh, fair point. So it's like, okay, scratch, deliberate off your coaching q fucking board forever. And after like. We went over and we're like, I like yo, you good? Because it's, it's, I dunno if you've ever been, I mean you probably have, but like when you're around something that big that is angry at you Yeah, yeah.
You kind of, you kind of shit a little bit. Like, it's just what it is. It's just how your body responds. Yeah. And he was like a little bit shook and he's like, what happened? He goes, yeah, the deliberate thing. He goes, yeah, I don't know man. Like, 'cause he trains, he trains in like Greenwich or something like that, you know what I mean?
He trains a bunch of like finance guys and deliberate is like, yes. Deliberate right Next quarterly earnings, I well be more deliberate. Like he didn't fucking give a shit. Yeah. And the Friday of that week, the, the lineman showed up with a shirt that I guess all of the Oline have or he had made prior to this.
And it was literally orange text on this big like, uh, dark blue shirt that said deliberate af and he had had this shirt. So deliberate is like a thing. Oh shit. And when you watch these, what the fuck are the chance of that? Yeah, but look, don't play the, don't play that game. Yeah, yeah. Right. It's good job.
It's dab up. It's one more rep. It's good. Uh, hey, you know, go, go whatever. Like keep it high level cool. Deliberate, too many syllables. What are we doing here? And you'll never be able to teach that on a Zoom call. Yeah, right. But this guy, now anyone, like any of my guys pastor through New York, I have no problem giving this guy a ring.
Yo so and so he's in town. You can look after him. Yeah, I got him. No worries. This guy will never use a three syllable word in his fucking life again. Well, for all the coaches out there, never use the word deliberate with a client. Yeah. But it's like, it's, it's read the room and you can't read the room unless you're in it.
Yeah. Yeah. So that's something where it's like, you know, that that took a lot of work to get to that point. And that's something that we're really proud of because it's a bottleneck though, right? We're not gonna get a hundred thousand people through L three ever. If I do. So many face tattoos, it's gonna be nuts, right?
It's gonna be me and your old boy just racing. Porsches not gonna be able to get outta them, but it's like, what we want is like, there's a work product here that we're trying to produce, and that's a good coach, but what does that mean? Mm-hmm. Right? Everyone's got every piece of paper under the sun, but it's like, okay, can you ball with what you've created?
Right before I started listening to you and watching your stuff, there weren't a lot of people talking about biomechanics and the, and movement and the importance of it. Now you have so many people. I've had Ben Yan before. You know Ben, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, I love his stuff. I'm, I'm into what he puts up on, uh, on his page and stuff, and I, I'm seeing a lot of guys, oh, I'm a bodybuilder through science.
I'm a science backed bodybuilder trainer, blah, blah, blah, whatever. Why do you think so many people became obsessed with this? And were you one of the first people that you knew about that was like, putting that shit out there? I don't know. I, I, I feel like anyone who gets into a profession as a career should know their history.
I agree. And one of, like my qualifying questions for, you know, coaches that we hire as staff and lecturers is about kinda like the OGs in the industry. Mm-hmm. Like if you don't know, if, like, and I'll give you an easy one. Like if you don't know who Charles Pollen is, it's a rap. Mm-hmm. Like, take your ball and go the fuck home.
Like, don't even, like, honestly, don't even talk to me until you know who that is. Right. Because it's, if you're gonna contribute, there's a, there's a, there's a field of study that you're contributing to and if you take any one person out of context, you may be like, oh, if you look at some of the stuff Charles did, and a lot of people like to do this, they go back and they sort of like posthumously rip Charles apart.
And it's like, yeah, he was wrong. But yeah, he was right in such an amazing way. Like you said earlier, it's like, you know, you had to get on the phone like. I remember trying to get bench press advice in forums where I was like, okay, I'm not sure if this guy's trying to help me bench or kidnap me. And it's like, let's see how this plays out.
Like, let's see if I You're in a fan. Yeah, yeah, exactly. You're like, your mom is like, well, what's happening? And the dial up is really slow and you're like, the dial up was his internet that we used to have. You guys don't, but anyways, forget about. But it's like, you know, so for, for me, it's, I, I knew about this, like, you know, Charles was my earliest inspiration 'cause like, I didn't know that you could do that.
Mm-hmm. Like, you know, what are they saying now that the high school guidance counselors are saying that the number one per perspective job for students right now in high school is they wanna be an influencer. Mm-hmm. Which is like that, like, sorry, like that Disney didn't exist. Not that I think, you know, that's, that was what we do.
But the idea that you could be, you know, something of like a public intellectual on a specific field of strength and conditioning, just like. I, it, it, it was Charles and then Paul Check, and, and you, you know, Charlie Francis and, uh, then Dave Tate and Louis Simmons and Christian Thibo. So for me, it was like the, the, the table had already been set.
Mm-hmm. Right. But because these guys, you had to find them in magazines. In magazines, yeah. Yeah. Like, that's where I got most of my early information. That's how I knew who like Joe DeFranco was, and Gunner Peterson and like all these guys, I'm like, you know, and even, uh, Jake Steinfeld. Yeah. Like all these guys were in the magazines.
When I see younger guys who were like, alright, here's what Jay Cutler got wrong, and you're like, what are we, I don't think he got anything wrong. It's, and I don't think he did anything wrong. Did I mean, that guy still to this day, I think is, has one of the best physiques I've ever seen. Like, when it comes to bodybuilding.
Yeah. Like if you're, if you're like, Hey, when it comes to like the, the giant freaks of bodybuilding, I mean, he looked incredible the years he won. Oh yeah. I mean that old, the, the quad stomp photo from his the best fourth Olympia Yeah. Is just, yeah. It's all time. And it's just, you know, to your earlier question, it's, I, I didn't think I was the first, like, I didn't by any means.
Now on the digital side, pre COVID, that landscape was kind of open seats pretty meek. Yeah. Yeah. Especially in, in the way we teach the courses, like, because it is an evolving field and, you know, I've seen the evolution, you know, from its inception really historically going back and, you know, to talking to guys like Dave and getting to train with guys like Louis and, and, you know, reading everything that Charles ever, ever, ever written.
It's like, I'm very familiar with the, the, the field as a field and, and who has contributed what in the history of how things came to be and then how things came to fall out of fashion and then fall back into fashion again. Mm-hmm. And sort of like the cycles and trends. I think, think about it. When I was a kid and I got a magazine, I got muscular development or you know, whatever it was, the, the workouts in there are very similar to shit we're doing now.
There was a good 10 to 15 year gap where like Men's health and a lot of these magazines were putting like CrossFit hit workouts, metabolic, you know, workouts in there. They weren't doing bodybuilding shit. They like stopped for a while. There was like less of that. And now it's come back around. Yeah. Yeah.
And it's, and you'll see it again. Yeah. Yeah. Right. You'll see the trends and it's so predictable and, you know, I think what's, what's evolving is we're really building this thing up from the basement. I think the average consumer now is, is better informed. Mm-hmm. Right. Because like our industry. So much as we can even circumscribe what that even means, people who do the stuff that's kind like, okay, supplements and, uh, training or talk about training or like do coaching or own gyms, like anyone who may show up to like an expo.
Like if you feel like that's like the container of the industry. Yep. And it's the only one I really know, but it seems to be one where people love to create the other, right. They love to create this, this, this counterfactual. And it's like, for me, and I've tried to, especially as I've gotten older, it's like the antidote to a bad idea is a better idea.
Right. And it's like, just say the thing that's, that you think is right and for the reasons why and for maybe who it's right for. And then like, you don't need to make an opponent on the other side of the ring. Yeah. Right. Like, and, and it's, I I don't know what it, maybe it's the hormones. Maybe it's the, you know, most of these people are like in their early twenties and their brain is still soup, but it's like, I dunno what it is about fitness.
And look, who knows, maybe like real estate is some guy doing a real estate podcast. Like Yeah. Real estate agents are really like, yeah. Most people think bungalows and detached garage or like, whatever. It's like fitness just seems to be this weird place where it's like always this. Yeah, yeah. It's like, could you just just say the thing and it's like a vet, like it is, and the hard part with that and, and I'll, and I'll kind of meet people halfway.
If you start thinking that way, you start saying a lot less. Mm-hmm. Because you just have to have this internal dialogue. Like the, the, the amount of contention that's in our field with, and this is where I think, you know, the digital thing is, uh, has, has led us astray the most is if you've not coached someone in person, you don't know the good side of it.
It's crazy. You don't know. I, I have the funniest, like, I, I mean, I was telling you before, and I hope this never, I hope the before never makes it onto actual, what camera do I need to look at? Uh. So if that, 'cause then you guys will find me in a ditch somewhere. But you know, I was talking about a, like my clients I have earlier, they're very atypical to my normal clientele.
And the conversations I have every single day walking through Central Park with my client are like the, when I go on my phone and I hear seed oils, I'm like, ugh. Like, if that's all you see Yeah. Is the Indus industry through the people that you elect to follow. Mm-hmm. And you don't get the, you know, the, to how, like, this is my favorite.
Like, if you haven't worked in person with a client, you've, you've never experienced the, am I doing it that like that moment? Yes. Like when they're doing it and you're like, mm-hmm. Yes. It's like how I would imagine like a parent feels when they watch their kid walk for the first time. Yep. It's sort of just like, oh my God, finally you fucking 18 months of carrying your ass around, but you finally figured it out.
Yeah. If you don't have that and you just have like. Oh, this guy doesn't have three coaching spots left. That's a live windows. That's like, fuck this loser. Like, like, oh my God. She, he signed with this protein company. It's like, you're gonna fucking hate it, dude. Yeah. You're gonna hate it. Like, I, I, I own a digital business.
I, you know, I, I choose to work in person because I choose to enjoy my life. Because like, you can't really go on that fucking six inch of glass rectangle and find an ounce of positivity that makes you go, why the fuck? I'm just going to go sell drugs again? Like, I'm not, there's way more positivity in recreational drug sales.
Yeah. Well, when you first give it to 'em, they were a lot more excited. Everyone's so excited to see you. Right. Have they leave happy? Yeah. You, depending on what you're selling, they come back a little aggravated, but like, it's all good. But like, you, you just wonder why. And it, it's so much of the, of the industry.
Is, is not doing the thing in person. I, I literally said that the other day. I go, so many people are like, I'm a trainer, I do this thing, but they don't actually do the thing. They're doing it online. But until you do it in person, like I think the best part of my day is when I get to see somebody, breakthrough, succeed, move on, grow, get better, build confidence, all that shit starts to happen in front of you.
It's like watching something bloom, like you said. I mean, you get to see your kid walk right. It, it's exciting. You love doing it. And then I think that's what keeps me so attached to the field because I, I genuinely enjoy watching somebody win when you're working with them and you're like, alright, I helped this person on their journey.
You feel like fucking Gandalf. Yeah. And I just think like, that's a long, I, I hate the, the word hack, but like that's the real longevity play. Mm-hmm. Like if you wanna have longevity in this business, sure. Having a scalable option, having, you know, revenue that you make money while you sleep, whatever, whatever.
I get it. There are ways to do that without ever having an Instagram account. There's ways to do it without having a huge following. Mm-hmm. But if you want, if you, if you wanna fan that flame of whatever your digital business is, get cut, cut your fucking teeth, man. And like, at a certain point, it shouldn't feel like that because, you know, if you, you got even pay your bills and you got a couple hours left in your day, like you don't have to be.
Like, stop listening to business podcasts, please, trainers. You're not Warren fucking Buffett, right? Like, relax, like you're not gonna, you're not gonna own the majority stake of Berkshire Hathaway. Like, you know, Warren's on his way out this year. Bless Warren, all that very smart guy. He's never gonna watch this.
So the salutations are useless, but it's like, like, what are you gonna make? What, what are you gonna make? Yeah. What are you after? What do you want? Well, I just feel like our business is so plagued and the business side of our business is so plagued with jerk offs promising you like, oh, I can make you eight figures.
Then why the fuck are you teaching people how to make eight figures? If you've already made it, you should be sailing off into the sunset. You know? Oh, I'm doing other goodness of your heart. And it's, I find that most of these guys are the biggest pieces of shit. But I mean, look, I, I'm, I'm a capitalist.
It's just what it is. People have to stop buying into it. Mm-hmm. Right. And I, I think it's, it's, it's the, the, the bottom feeders are just clearing out the, just the chum. Right. And it's like, because if someone, and not to be disparaging, 'cause I'm sure like a lot of diamonds have risen from the rough, but it's like, if you, if your way to, oh, you wanna leverage your business, you wanna make more money, is to go to the guy who's selling last week's lottery numbers.
It's like you, you don't work enough in person. Yeah. You don't get it. Like, and I, I think that will forever be the case. And, you know, there's a lot of conversation around AI and how that's gonna change the game. It's, it's not, it's everyone has access. Like your chat GPT is the same as my chat, GPT stop using fucking double dashes in your captions.
Like a fucking Shem. We know that. You just got that from chat GPT now it's like, oh, you're now, who's not in it for the right reasons. So it's just, it's, you know, I think that type of stuff is necessary. Right. Like I, I think what I. I don't wanna be adding to the, the, the counter narrative. And I, I don't like the word narrative, the counter conversation, the counterpoint is like, if you do good work, do great work and focus on you and take care of your fucking people mm-hmm.
You take care of your people, right? Like, whether that's your clients or people that you, that you work with, or fucking God forbid, your family, you can try and get your parents in shape you, like, you try and do those things. Like things are gonna, you'll be just fine, right? You start like, oh, it's, it's over here.
Like, and I'm sure that's true in any business. It's, it's just, you know, the, the social media intersection with our field is just very particularly potent. So I, I went to HFA this year and I don't know what that is. Okay. So it's the, it used to be the old, um, what did it used to be? Ursa? I don't know what that, I don't know what that was.
So, UR Ursa is like the biggest trade show for gym equipment. Classic. So I like going, I like just seeing what's new out there and. There was a lot of like AI technology. There's this company called e gm. Sure. Right? And it's like $20,000 machines and it tracks your movement and stuff. Does it? Can it hold my sweater when I use a real machine that's, can I put my water bottle on it?
Well, that's what my next thing was. And I said, I go, so we, I was at this innovation summit my buddy's actually doing, he had this event in, uh, at the nasdaq and then I had spoke up and said, 'cause they were all like, well, we're dumping a ton of money into AI and we're dumping a ton of money. I go just from somebody who's in the field.
I am boots on the ground every day. I'm either at my gym in New York or gym in New Jersey, or I am going and traveling to gyms and the Gen Zers and younger than them, whatever that generation is. And guys our age just wanna throw around iron. And I think the best companies are still like producing something like Panada.
Uh, Atlantis and these companies are producing better equipment, but there's no ai. What's your thoughts on all this? Like where do you think the everybody's going with this? Yeah, I mean, I, I look as long as I still have to turn my, my modem off and then turn it on again to fix my internet service, I'm not at all worried about this.
And if it does get to the point where it's so sophisticated that I think it's better to be in my job, we're probably all gonna be pink mist. 'cause someone will have used it to like launch the nuclear arsenal against North Korea or whatever, whatever, right? But it's just like, it's, it's, I, I thought, and I, and I, and I don't know this to be 100% the case, but I feel as if, um.
We're kind of seeing like a peloton on trend, uh, steroids for those of you falling along at home because like Peloton was like, oh, this is what happens when you bring and was proven to kind of fall out the wayside and fall out of favor. But like when you bring like the finance world, the business world, because I'm, I'm sure at some point someone on Wall Street went, wait, these kids are making how much online these kids with like, you know, the uh, spandex shorts or whatever the fuck and 4K cameras are pulling how much a year?
Yeah. Oh, we gotta pay attention to this. Right? Like what Equinox got got value to the, that that's SPAC outta California for like $10 billion. 10 billion. Yeah. Right, right. People were, uh, you know, people were starting, no, no one paid attention to fitness. I know, right? And then all of a sudden, you know, you got the AG one selling sawdust and it's like, holy shit, there's some fucking money here.
I see. I see AI in a similar sort of bubble of like. It's, you don't get it. And I, and what gets me in the fitness industry is people didn't learn from COVID. If you think that AI is going to somehow improve the gym experience, improve the, you know, I deal with these fucking companies all the time. They're trying to sell you shit.
And it's like, oh look, there's a camera. And it's like, I don't know. Fuck. There's a mirror right there, dude. Like, why do we have this fucking camera that's gonna break? This mirror is not going anywhere. Yeah, right. I, I pay a kid, I don't gotta pay him. He is an intern and he is like, squeegees in well, mirrors, camera's fixed.
You fucking idiot. And it's just like, it's just so, it's just this bloated like infl and it's like, yeah. So you can see yourself in, and then it's like this edge rec, like my eyes have edge recognition technology. Yeah. That computer is running a, a what's called a neural network convolution that is trying to base, you know what it is.
Have you ever seen the original Iron Man? Course. So, you know, uh, the Tony Stark, uh, what is his name? Danny Jr's character and like that Obia stain guy. And they're like looking at all the other countries that are trying to build the Ironman suit. And then he's like, I'm not really concerned about this.
And you like, look at the other Ironman suit and it's like, goes a little, what looks like China and it's like spazzing out and like doing nothing. And it's like, goes to like Russia and it's like shot itself in the foot or something stupid like that. Like when if you're like an actual trainer, you can establish relationships and you know how to communicate and you're punctual and you're professional and yeah.
You know, a thing or two about exercise and nutrition. Like you can get people on the basics and you know, you can, you can optimize for enjoyment, you can optimize for effort, you can optimize for consistency. That's a, you, you, you're Robert Downey Jr. You got the, the gold and the red suit on, and you're just watching this computer like put together super sets of like, you know, three by 47 and a half the single arm lap, pull down lunches.
You're like, that's not real. Yeah. Right. Like, so I, I'm, I'm not at all concerned and I'm extremely frustrated, like, because it, I, I get it. Okay. Someone may be able to take all the programs I've ever written and in, in a, you know, a, a large language model or something and maybe compile, but humans are so variable, right?
Like, okay, what if this person has an ACL tear? What if this per, oh, here's one. What if this person doesn't like that exercise? What are you gonna do? What if that person doesn't like the fucking look on your face? Right? Mm-hmm. It's just, I, I, I mean, I, I tip the hat for them trying to, to integrate this new technology, but at the end of the day, it's like.
Yeah. I, I don't think it can be replaced. Yeah. No. I mean, listen, I, I see it and I just, from my point of view, it seems like people, it's the one hour of the day that we could really just be human and be primal and throw weights around. Mm. You know, and I enjoy it. What's, uh, you know, what are you doing right now as far as working out?
Because you're still traveling so much? Like where do Yeah, I, uh, I work with a client, so I do work face-to-face every day. That's probably about all I can mention about that. So I, I, I'm still working in person. Yeah. Um, no, but like, as far as your own workouts, like, how the fuck do you keep the size on that?
You do, man. It's, you're your own, you're your own proof of concept. Mm-hmm. Like, what's it worth to you, you know what I mean? Like it's, I'm still the same. I just don't have to sleep in my car. Right. So like it's it's way easier now. Yeah. Right. I have, I have an EA and I tell her what hotel I'm staying at and I, I say, ask her, could you please find me like some good protein sources that'll deliver?
'cause like my clients pay for it and I can invoice it and I don't have to walk to Safeway anymore. Like, it's way easier now even though I've traveled 52 weeks a year. What are, I mean, you've gotten to travel so much. What are three of the best gyms you've ever been to in the world? Uh, that's tough, man.
Like, I know your, your definition of a good gym is similar to mine. It's the equipment, it's the grit, it's the energy, right? Yeah. It's the people. But sometimes it's, sometimes it's the obscurity. Like some, I was in Neir, which is in the middle of Turkey. Okay. And you're like, there's no fucking way you're gonna find a gym here.
But like, it's stuff like, it's like the, it's sometimes it's the culture. It's the connection. Yeah. Like this gym by any of those metrics. I don't even remember what it was called. It was in like, the basement of, you know, something that looked like it was like previously bombed out before. And, you know, you don't get cell service.
Not many people even speak English. And the, it was, it was terrible. But it was fucking awesome. Yeah. It was. So, 'cause you know, like some, some dude knows you're like a tourist and, but knows that you're into training, right? Like there's a signaling to resistance training where you know, your hand is stamped.
Right. It's like we all kind of have a prison tattoo here and we know who's clicked up. Mm-hmm. And so, like, I think part of it is that, right? Like, you know, and to your earlier point about when you walk in, you're, you're, you pretty much resemble a guy who wants to fucking workout. Yeah. And, and, but people see that and they, and they, they're like, oh wow.
Even this guy who's clearly on vacation mm-hmm. Has gone out of his way 'cause in the middle of Central Turkey to like, find a gym and they're like, you know, they, they'll, they'll try and talk to you or like, have conversations. I think it's, for me, over the years, it would be easy to say that, you know, I, I think, I think Leo's done some really interesting stuff in the DMV area with DMV Iron.
Okay. If anyone hasn't been to, uh, you know, to, what is it? Delaware? Maryland, Virginia, Alexandria was his first gym. Amazing dude. Great story. Incredible facilities, great members. Like if you haven't been there and you're like a gym purist, I think DMV Iron is is top tier. Take a note of that, Chris. I gotta check that place out.
Oh yeah, just Unv Iron. Great people, mostly like military police guys, but bodybuilders, everyone there is super friendly. Jack to the gills. Equipment's crazy. Atmosphere is awesome. Um, I really like, uh, Cuba's Gym, Rotham, uh, United Kingdom. Ultraflex, Ultraflex, and Rotherham is special. Okay. Um, Cuba, real smart, intense bodybuilder, you know, kind of curated this really good and British bodybuilding that culture is, is really, um, I'm going out there next week, so.
Oh, amazing. We'll, we'll get you linked up because Oh, please. They're so, you know, and yeah, I guess if you're talking about Roth and we gotta talk about FLF and Manchester, that's another great spot. Like, there's just so, it's so communal, like here it gets cliquey and, you know, infighting and all that.
There, it's like, British bodybuilders are just such fans of other British bodybuilders. Uh, three, uh, Dougherty's I saw mention Tony early Dougherty's gym in Melbourne. There's two Flinder Street station is is cool. But, um, Brunswick, the, the Brunswick Dougherty's and it says some sentimental value to me.
'cause that was one of the first like. Destination gyms that I want, like I've always wanted to go to, never thought I would and got to see. Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah, if I had to pick top three, like, okay, people are into gym tourism, I would say those three. And I, and I feel bad 'cause like I could sit here for 20 and I'm probably gonna get 20 text messages.
Like, bro, what the fuck? You can't shout. Yeah. So I'm gonna, I, I've been doing this rating thing, it's just been, uh, helpful because it helps videos go viral and shit. And that's what all the kids are doing. But I'm gonna go one to 10, okay? Right. Or you're gonna go one to 10. I'm gonna say a name or a movement or something.
You gimme a one to 10. So one being the worst, 10 being the best. Okay. So I'm gonna throw out a name. Fuck Arnold. Hold on. So 10 is the best. Yeah. 10 J Cutler. 10. Uh, rear dealt flies with a cable. Single arm or bilateral? Single arm. Eight and a half. Um, Tate presses, uh,
four, the, uh, the Arnold Classic. The show? Mm-hmm. Which one? Ohio
Seven. Mr. Olympia now or 10 years ago now? Four. Wow. Okay. Um, God, I had another one. Um, TRT Uh oh. Tough. I mean, are we, are we running sport TRT or whatever the idiots they're calling, or like actual, uh oh. Uh. Testosterone replacement. Like, oh, not trend replacement therapy? No, not trend. Not trend. Uh, yeah, that's, that's tough.
I, I mean, I have a hard, I don't want to, I don't pass. Okay. Uh, GLP ones pass. Uh, I'm the worst date show because that's an of all time. Uh, Jordans 10. Okay. Well, we got a sense of who you are. So I'm, I'm huge into art. I love art. Uh, you know, we fight about it all the time because I spend so much money on the designs for the shirts and all that shit.
Okay. And you forgot to tell me to bring shirts. I had a shirt for you. Fuck. Oh, I'll see you again. I'm sure what I said I'll see you again, I'm sure. Hopefully soon. Yeah. Um, what's your favorite tattoo? That jam. It's tough, man. Come on, eh, dude. There's gotta be, I think I've forgotten more than I know. Uh, for the art.
For the art. I really like this one. This guy named Benjamin Lucas. Dude, I love this. I've been staring at the inside of your arm. Yeah, that is so well done. The negative space stuff Yeah. Is so fucking cool. Yeah. So this was, I I flew, um, he was really cool. And the thing about like, where was that? Uh, I got this in Athens, Greece.
Um, it's pretty sick. Yeah. So he. He's an incredible artist. He, this is actually the, the, the, um, reference for this is a real skull of like a real person that he had in a studio. And he like took a picture. He like says like a lighting studio similar to this about the cameras. And he like took this skull off a shelf and he goes, what do you think of this one?
I'm like, where do he get a real, you don't ask questions when you're in Athens Grease getting a tattoo. Yeah. And you know, he uses like a purple and silver, so it fades different than the other one. My other one's kind of fade green, so that one was really cool. Great dude. Great artist. You know, I was lucky to get in with him.
Um, fuck, I mean, this, this is a recent one I got done. The Suno Park did that. Dude, those you, the artwork you have is sick. I even, I really like this too. Oh yeah. This is just the white, I mean, that's sick. Yeah. That's a new addition. That was a couple weeks ago. I got my back done. Um, there's a guy, Daniel Snows, who's done my leg.
Um, the art there is really cool, but then I have like, look like, because I, I. I have Mike Jones's phone number tattooed on my shin. You were, I heard this story, right? Yeah. It was like with my barber in my aunt right there. Yeah. It's actually, he, he text me from it. He got, he got the number back. Get at it. I swear to God.
I like, I like put it up on Instagram once and he like posted it. Yeah. And then he like, text me from the number. 'cause tell us like cans, some of your kids don't even know who fucking Mike Jones is. Um, Mike. But like, some of it is just stupid, right? Like some 'cause tattoos, like they can have meaning what's that number on your arm?
So this one? Yeah. So this is Primo Levy's Holocaust number, right? So Primo Levy is an Italian Jew that was, uh, he was an author, uh, who wrote a book called, if This Is a Man, it's my favorite book. So I, before I got into, you know, biomechanics and all this shit, I was a, I was a history major, so that. That obviously means something, but Mike Jones' phone number means I was with my barber in Miami and thought, wouldn't it be funny if we got Mike Jones' phone number tattooed?
And he goes, you wouldn't. And I was like, and I call my tattoo Aon. We did. So, I mean, you got a lot of crazy shit. But what is, are there any you regret? Never Or you gonna No. No. You don't? No. Had no shit covered on No, no, no. Yeah. But look, you don't understand. I've had someone, like, I've thought, I think about this a lot.
Yeah. Like anything can be a representation. Anything can be a metaphor. I think tattoos are, they have like a, a, a metaphorical element to them. But I, I personally, who knows? Like, you know, you know, you get your fucking whatever girlfriend's name tattooed on you or whatever. Okay. I got it. Fair. Never a good idea.
Fair, fair play. But wait, getting your girlfriend, have you ever had that? Getting, okay? No. Fuck. Okay. I, I, I didn't know. I didn't wanna out show your own show dog. I'll tell you what, if I ever got anything, I definitely get something like that. Like I always thought about. You ever see, uh, you know who Randy Orton is?
The wrestler. Yes. Yeah. He, he got both his arms done at the same time. And there's all those skulls and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. It's a negative space like that. And I, that is the coolest thing. I don't have arms like him. I wish I did, but Yeah. You're on the come up though. I seen you. I'm coming. I'm know since 2018.
I saw, I saw the side by side transformation. Right. My man's look Well, yeah, dude. That's what happens when you fix your hormones. Seriously. Yeah. Um, but no, the, the, the tattoo thing, do I have any regret? I, I, I get my, my mom's not a huge fan, and me and my mom have a great relationship and every time I get one, like, like she still, she still will go where?
Wherever she still gets upset about it. You still FaceTime me? Like, what are you, what are you doing? I was like, mom, really? Like at, at this point, what are we even, it's ones where like, I got my stomach done. Yeah. Leg back. All like the ones that are not even visible. And she was like, say, you know what? It's just, it's just gonna, it's just gonna be on you f forever.
I'm like, she's like, I'm like, no, it's not. She's like, do you not know how how tattoos work? I'm like, do you not know how life works? I'm like, mom, I'm 35. Yesterday I was 14. You're. Dude, you're only 35. Yeah. I thought you were closer my age. Oh, thank you. Yeah. I look terrible. I know, I know. I've been, no, I thought you were like 37.
I don't take care of myself at all. I thought you were. No, I mean, not to bring up a great story, but I'll bring it up anyway, that the last time I got to hang out with you. We were with a very other special friend of yours. Yeah. And we did some, uh, some edibles. That was a great night. Oh yeah. We did those shrooms.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I do, I do drugs of all sorts. I don't sleep a lot. Uh, other than resistance training and eating a lot of protein, I am more or less a degenerate. Like I'm not Yeah, but you're not the drinker. You don't drink. No, no, no. I haven't drank in 18 years. Yeah. But so here's the thing. Here's the funny part.
When you look like me and you say that people think I have like a medallion in my pocket, I'm just like, no. I just like had shit to do on Sundays as a kid. Yeah. And like didn't want to sell drugs for a living, so I just stopped drinking. It's not like I had a problem, but every time I bring that up, people are always, everyone's like, oh, like they pull out some app on their phone, like I'm 48 day.
I'm like, yeah. And it ain't heavy like that, but like congratu, I'm glad, you know, keep, keep, here's my number if you want to talk. Yeah. But people think I go to like meetings and stuff, but uh, yeah. I'm here for. Because I mean, there's, our industry's evolved in so many ways, but like the longevity space.
Mm-hmm. Miss me with that. If I'm 50, I'm, I'm, I'm renting a, a con second going to the wall. I've got 200. Dude, I'll tell you what, like when I, I never thought I'd make it to 40, like when I re, when I looked back, when I look back and I was like 20 years old, and I met guys who were in their forties. I'm like, God, this guy looks like dog shit.
He's fat, he's bald, he's outta shape. And then I'm now 42 and I'm like, fuck. Thank God. I took, and I tell people all the time, I was like, listen, I did drink a lot and I partied a lot. I never really did a lot of, I, I just started getting into like psychedelics and shit like that recently. Um, but before that, I never really did anything.
I go, the only thing I've ever tried to do was eat well and exercise. And hopefully I look younger than I actually am. But yeah, I think if you do that and manage the stress, you'll be all right. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's, and I went into the career I did because I. I was like, this is the only place I like being everywhere else.
I hate it. Even when I did the television shit, I fucking hated it. It was boring. Like you're sitting around waiting for shit to happen. So for me, I'm like, the only place I want to be every day is a gym. And that's how I managed my stress levels, ate what I wanted, and then I got to fucking meet a bunch of people.
I always like fangirled over, like I was, I said, I go, where do all the guys I admire go? They're all going to the gym. And that's why I got into cigar smoking too, because I see like Michael Jordan and Hulk Hogan and uh. Fucking, you know, Arnold smoking cigars. I'm like, well, they all go to the gym and smoke cigars, and I'm gonna do that too.
Really? I can't get behind that. Oh, dude, I love smoking. I just don't, I don't, I think I actually enjoy it. Now, see, for me, with my personality, like if it's a cigar on Monday, I'm smoking fucking crack out of a light bulb on Thursday. Like, uh, it's just like, oh, like, yeah, you're an extreme. Yeah. Oh yeah. I, but I know that like, I was gonna get one tattoo when I was 22.
Like I was gonna do like. I was just gonna do creatine. Ha. Like, you know, it's, I know like, okay. Like, I'm, are you, can you keep chocolate in the house? Let me ask you this. Yeah. Oh, you're a psychopath. No, you're unwell. I know. I, I, I was sitting with a buddy of mine who runs a clinic. He, he helps people get sober and stuff, and he was really bad for a long time, and him and all his friends are sitting at a table.
We went to go have dinner one night and they're like, dude, you could drink if you want. I'm like, I guys, I don't really drink. I was like, I could have, I was like, all right, fine. I'll have a fucking drink. I took a sip of it, didn't finish it. And he's like, how do you do that? That's insane. Mm. I go, what do you mean?
He's like, if I had one sip of alcohol, I'll be in a gutter tomorrow with a needle in my arm. Yeah. Respect. Yeah. This guy's numbers, that's like fun. You'd love him. He's a great dude. And I said, I was like, no, I've just never really been, you know, addicted. I'd never, I don't have an addictive personality, but I wanna do, like, I, I mean, I'm afraid to do.
Some hardcore fucking stereo. Like if I did like trend and all this stuff and I got to a certain size, I'd be chasing that size forever. Yeah. It's, I mean, I, in my competing days, like I would, I tell kids now, 'cause you know, education is, it's not just about biomechanics, right? Yeah. There's so much more about, and thank God for that.
Um, where the fuck were you drug safety content creators? When I was competing, because like, I tell people what I used to take and they're like, how are you still alive? Perfect example. I had a video go viral on Instagram. I was interviewing that, uh, Alex Eubank kid at the Arnold. And I said to 'em, I was like, oh, you know, you're taking TRT.
What's your recommendation to 24 year olds? The amount of comments, like I said, what, what's your recommendation to other kids your age or younger than you who look up to you? What do you tell them? Hmm. And I'm just playing devil's advocate. I'm like, what's going on? I like, I'm not. Backing him up on what he's doing, but it hits his choices.
Interesting. Yeah. The amount of fucking people who are like, oh, this is fucked up, blah, blah, blah. You're supporting it. He shouldn't be on, he shouldn't have. I go, hold on, guys at 24 years old have been taking shit forever. Yeah. It's really, I mean, that's the least of the shit that he could be doing. I go, but he's got 3 million, 4 million people following him.
He's gonna tell them something. Like he's given them some advice. You know, I, I don't think it's, it was bad advice, but everybody chooses their own journey. People are gonna do it whether you want to think so or not, but I mean, what's your take on that? Oh, Elise, wait till you're 25. Please, please. Like your brain's just like, literally.
And it's, that's not just me, you know, having a go, like your brain's still soup until you're 25. Uh, so that's my advice there. There's some drugs that you just shouldn't take. And it's funny 'cause like I. It's always hard for someone who's taken those trucks be like, yeah, but, and I'm like, don't do it. No, I like, I, 'cause I've seen it from all sides.
Like per personal and, and you know, from afar watching friends and competitors like, and, and, and have an exit strategy, right. Like, have a, have a, have a window where you're like, I'm gonna do it for this because it's, if you hang onto it, like, you know, I, I make a joke about not being here for a long time, but it'll be the stress of work that puts me in the grounds.
Like not the rampant, you know, at least performance enhancing drug use anymore. Like, I, I might get so high on shrooms that I like jump off something, who knows? But like for me it's have an exit strategy. Right. Please don't start until you're 25 because like, you also like haven't, you don't even know how to make decisions yet, at least.
And I didn't know how to make decisions yet. Mm-hmm. And my brain is just sitting in a vat of. Of car battery acid and you're just like, ah, I'm gonna go bench now. I guess. Like, that'll, that'll make the voices go away. And it's just like, you know, don't start until you're 25 and have an negative strategy.
And, 'cause I think what happens is people get stuck and if, if you start before you're 25, your identity becomes like the big guy or like the Jack Guy. And then all of a sudden you wake up at 30 and you go to, you know, enterprise rental car, wherever the fuck you work. And you, you some, someone fucking rolls over your leg and you can't train and you know, now you're in a, in a hole and you can't, and your head's all fucked up 'cause it's full of hormones and, and you, you blast more gear and you work out less and you just, like I, and this may sound hyperbolic.
I'm literally talking about someone that I know like, oh shit. Yeah, it's tough, man. Like, you just, it, you people, I don't think really, and I'm not talking full Ben Affleck special after school special, but like the, the psychological ramifications and like, some of it, like the brain damage, like Trent here, you need no other reason than, like, there's research that shows a correlation towards like Alzheimer's and early onset dementia.
When I was a kid, I grew up across the street from this family, from the Czech Republic and their grandmother, may she rest in peace, you know, towards later in her life she ended up with, with Alzheimer's. Over the course of, you know, a couple of months I watched this lady consume her entire slipper. It's like, right, who would, uh, like, you know, I, I remember seeing someone on acid once and go, man, I.
Yes. Right. Where, what at this piece of paper, sure. It looks like Pickle Rick, give me the pickle rick paper and I'll see you on Fuck. I, and I saw, you know, this poor lady consume her, and I was four or five years old and I thought, whatever that drug is, miss me with the slippery eating drug. And it's like, but that's what's on offer.
And it's, you know, it's hard to take things seriously and whatever, social media, all the, all the bullshit. But if you're gonna do it, my opinion is please wait till you're 25 and, and have an exit strategy. Like, okay, I'm gonna do this and stick to it because like, no one likes that guy. Mm-hmm. And we all know that guy.
He is got like the, he's passed his prime. He's like uncle fucking whatever from Napoleon Dynamite. Like he's trying to throw a pig skin a quarter mile. He's creeping out young girls in the gym and it's just, you know, just, just that. That's it. That's all I'm gonna say about him. Well, guys, you heard it on that note.
You heard it from the boss himself. Doc, thank you so much for coming by. Appreciate it, man. I appreciate it. I'm, I'm glad we finally got to get this in. Sorry. Um, no, it's great. I appreciate it. Uh, guys, as always, like, subscribe, share with the friend. Uh, and where could everybody find you? Oh, this one. Uh, you don't want to be found.
Yeah. In a, in a face down with your friend after a couple of, no, I, I dunno. Instagram, uh, at the underscore Muscle Doc and then, uh, pre script. Pre, yeah. Uh, www pre script do com. There you go. I've taken the course. I took a level one and two. You guys should definitely check it out.