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Work like you’re not a parent.
Parent like you don’t work.
What if that whole system is wrong?
This is Full Stack Moms, and we are Mallory Lee and Shannon Curran, two working moms navigating tech careers, parenting, and everything in between. We talk about why the traditional rules of work don’t fit modern parents and how women in tech are doing things differently. Through honest conversations and behind-the-scenes stories, this show explores careers, caregiving, ambition, and the messy reality of having it all, just not all at once.
Connect with Mallory: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mallorylee/
Connect with Shannon: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shannon-sweeny-curran/
Produced in partnership with Share Your Genius
www.shareyourgenius.com
[00:00:00] Mel Goodman: We have to be so deliberate with how we essentially design our careers while being the mom that we wanna be in terms of boundary setting, in terms of letting people know confidently when you are available, when you're not available. It takes a lot of. Intentionality and effort to, to get to a point where you are designing your career where it feels sustainable.
[00:00:26] Mallory Lee: This is Full Stack Moms.
[00:00:28] Shannon Curran: This is not a parenting podcast nor a business podcast, but a place where we talk building careers in tech, raising kids at home, and making it work in public.
[00:00:38] Mallory Lee: It's so good to meet you, Mel. How are you? It's very good
[00:00:41] Mel Goodman: to meet you both. Why do you two know each other?
[00:00:44] Mallory Lee: So we met because I was a customer and mm-hmm.
[00:00:48] Shannon was the VP of marketing at Mad Kudu and so we did a webinar together way back in the day and um, just chit chatted after that. I think that was right [00:01:00] before your first came along, right, Shannon?
[00:01:03] Shannon Curran: Yeah, I was kid less. Yeah. So I know. And then we ended up connected. Through, was it Rev Genius? Like one of those, I think we did a webinar together on one of those.
[00:01:14] Maybe there was something else. It's possible. I don't know. But we've been just connected ever since, so that's the, so fun.
[00:01:20] Mallory Lee: Yeah.
[00:01:21] Shannon Curran: Yeah.
[00:01:21] Mel Goodman: I love that. And then you, you created a podcast together. How cool.
[00:01:26] Shannon Curran: Yeah,
[00:01:26] Mallory Lee: I just kept in touch. It was one of those things that I had been wanting to do and I mentioned it like a year ago.
[00:01:35] On LinkedIn and I said, I know what my pod, my podcast is gonna be about. And um, a bunch of people reached out being interested in being a part of it, but I wasn't ready. And I was like, no, no, no, not right now. And then when everything came out around like women ruining the workplace and that New York Times article, you know, Shannon posted something where I, I did, it caught my [00:02:00] eye and I was like.
[00:02:01] Her, she's the one I've got to, she has to be my co-host. And so I think I was very awkward about it. I was like, do you wanna maybe talk about this topic? And
[00:02:13] Shannon Curran: uh, you're so cute. You're like, I bought a bunch of domains, actually is the way that you said it.
[00:02:18] Mallory Lee: You're
[00:02:18] Shannon Curran: in
[00:02:19] Mallory Lee: I love
[00:02:19] Mel Goodman: that so much.
[00:02:21] Shannon Curran: Yeah. It's per, it worked out perfect.
[00:02:22] 'cause I had also been saying I wanted to start a show for like over a year. When I went out on my own. I was like, I definitely think this is like the time for me. But it just always went to the back burner in terms of like production. And then, yeah, it's probably a good time to thank our sponsors, share Your Genius, who seriously really made this whole thing happen because I think that, you know, an idea is only so great as its execution.
[00:02:43] So I think we, uh, of course having a partner like Share Your Genius really made this possible. So yeah, that's kind of, and then the, the rest is, uh, short history and then we had to change the name and now we're full stack moms. So here we are
[00:02:55] Mel Goodman: in love. So cool. I love it. So well, I'm so excited to be here.
[00:02:59] Shannon Curran: Mel, [00:03:00] do you wanna kind of tell our, our listeners, viewers a little bit about yourself, um, what you do and then what's your family system look like, and then what's your job look like?
[00:03:08] Mel Goodman: I have two kids, two girls, seven and four, almost eight and five, both of them. And Nice. It just keeps getting better and better.
[00:03:16] Like I'm the mom who gets really sad at birthdays and I have to keep reminding myself that it just keeps getting better and better each stage. So just thought I would share that little tidbit, my family system. So I, I have a husband of 12 years and he and I met in undergrad and we, we connected about five, six years later.
[00:03:37] We didn't start dating in college and we were in San Francisco before we moved out to, to Colorado for about 10 years. I was in the tech industry for many years and then we moved out to, to Denver really for lifestyle and we're both working full time. My husband is a, a corporate attorney. He actually, his firm is in la so he travels to LA on a monthly [00:04:00] basis.
[00:04:00] And so we've had to put a lot of systems in place to ensure that I can keep my sanity and, uh, and that have, you know, we don't have a chaotic, uh, ca chaotic home. And I will say I feel like we have a really calm home, which feels really good. So. We have, um, a full-time nanny, which really helps significantly when things were really, really chaotic couple years ago was primarily when childcare would fall through.
[00:04:28] So reliable childcare is truly like, I'm sing so many praises and couldn't do what I do, or my husband couldn't do what he does without. Childcare support. So, um, that's how we go about our family system right now. And we have so many different systems that we have in our home to, to keep things stable and and calm, which I'm happy to get into over time, if that's of interest to the two of your or your audience.
[00:04:55] Mallory Lee: That's awesome. And so you have been part of the tech world and you're also [00:05:00] now a founder. Is that right?
[00:05:02] Mel Goodman: Yes. Yeah. So if you're, if you'd like, I can walk you through kinda my journey of let's do it. Uh, you know, my, my career background and, and what I'm up to now. So. I've always had entrepreneurial itch. I came from a family of entrepreneurs, so building things was, was kind of always in my DNA, but I, I chose more of that traditional path for the first 15 years of my career.
[00:05:22] So right out of undergrad, I started, I started my career right at Salesforce as a sales development representative, and then moved up through the corporate ladder at Salesforce, and then I went, we
[00:05:34] Mallory Lee: love SDRs. Shout out to the SDRs.
[00:05:37] Shannon Curran: Bless an SDR.
[00:05:39] Mel Goodman: Right. I mean, truly I have such where the grit
[00:05:41] Shannon Curran: is born,
[00:05:43] Mel Goodman: where the grit is born.
[00:05:44] It's so true. I have so much respect for that role. For those who are in that role, that role and BDR prospecting, I think it is. The hardest role in sales. Mm-hmm. But everyone should learn how to do it. That's actually how I landed my job at Salesforce. I emailed Mark [00:06:00] Benioff to get to get my first job.
[00:06:02] That's
[00:06:03] Mallory Lee: amazing.
[00:06:03] Mel Goodman: And so I think it's a really important skillset no matter what you do in your life, is to learn how to sell yourself essentially. So anyway, so I got into to leadership fairly young. I was always passionate about, about leadership. I studied organizational psychology and sociology in undergrad.
[00:06:18] So I was always very passionate about just how humans operate inside of a, of an organization and how they stay motivated. And as a result of that, because I, you know, started in leadership fairly young. I sort of fell really in, in love with coaching and mentoring and and building teams, and I found a lot of meaning in that work.
[00:06:37] I loved creating a vision, building culture from scratch and. Executing over time and watching something real really take shape. And for most of my early adult life, I identified mostly with my career. I honestly hadn't thought much about having kids. I was terrified of the idea, never had changed a diaper in my life.
[00:06:57] And what surprised me most is that when I [00:07:00] became a mom, it felt so natural for me. It became the role that I felt. The most grounded and confident in, which was really surprising for me, and I still wanted my career. I really believed I could do both, be a present mom and continue to grow professionally, and I even felt defensive when someone would tell me it's not possible, or it's not easy.
[00:07:20] But then a series of things happened, right? That forced me to slow down and kind of reckon with some big questions, like most women end up doing fertility challenges a miscarriage, and then building a team from the ground up while raising my, my first daughter, who was just a baby and a toddler at the time.
[00:07:37] And three years into that work where I was building this team from scratch, I had to dissolve that team within 24 hours because of COVID. I was at a luxury travel company. Oh,
[00:07:46] Mallory Lee: no. Oh,
[00:07:47] Mel Goodman: and it, I was building the sales development team, so speaking of sales development, this company didn't value sales development as much as it valued account executives, right?
[00:07:58] And so my team was the first to [00:08:00] go, and I was still on board, but I remember being left with this very heavy feeling of what was all for. I had spent three years sacrificing time away from my daughter. And I felt really lost, and I was at this big crossroads. This was the biggest inflection point of my career and mm-hmm.
[00:08:21] I tend to find that with women when they are feeling lost or at a crossroads, they can confuse that with burnout. And I felt confused too. Is it burnout? What is it I was trying to make sense of, of success and ambition and meaning in a season where like the old definitions really no longer fit what I was aiming for in my kind of new version of life.
[00:08:42] And so once I named that in myself, I started seeing it everywhere. Incredibly capable, talented, brilliant women arriving at these pivotal decision points in their careers after becoming mothers and after a big transition or when. The life they [00:09:00] built really no longer feels aligned. And so oftentimes, um, many of them are, are making these decisions while extremely overloaded.
[00:09:08] And so as a result, it's really hard to make these high stakes, big decisions about their careers because they're feeling rushed. They're alone, they're uncertain, right? Because of how overloaded they are. And so the work that I do now with WorkMom. It exists because I can't stand watching women make career decisions while feeling lost and overloaded.
[00:09:30] And so I help women slow down, navigate the decision that they're trying to make that actually shapes their careers so that they can choose from clarity and conviction instead of pressure. So that's a little bit about my, my background. So now I have a business called, called WorkMom. As I mentioned, I work with women in two different ways.
[00:09:48] I have a career crossroads lab, which is a much more personalized way to work with me directly on making those high stakes decisions to six week program. And then I also have a membership platform with a private [00:10:00] podcast in the membership as well as community and access to me with live calls.
[00:10:05] Mallory Lee: Awesome.
[00:10:05] Mel Goodman: How cool.
[00:10:08] Shannon Curran: The smartest B2B teams I know treat every podcast episode like a content engine. One 30 minute conversation becomes video clips, audiograms, pull quotes, blog posts, social content, and show notes. The problem was always that repurposing took longer than actually recording. But Riverside flipped that record in 4K.
[00:10:27] Edit from the transcript and the AI generates, clips, captions, and show notes automatically. Record, edit, repurpose, publish all in one platform. If your growth team wants more content without more headcount, this is the move. Try Riverside Pro free for a month with code full stack moms at creators.riverside.com/full stack moms.
[00:10:51] Mallory Lee: Okay, so my first question. Do you start working with the moms before the baby arrives? Like are they [00:11:00] reaching out to you when they're still expecting?
[00:11:03] Mel Goodman: No. Oftentimes it is after they become a mom, some women, and they panic. Yeah. That's the panic
[00:11:11] Shannon Curran: sets in
[00:11:12] Mel Goodman: as the panic sets in. Exactly. And oftentimes I would say after two kids.
[00:11:18] How many kids do you both have, by the way?
[00:11:20] Shannon Curran: I have two. Oh, she has
[00:11:22] Mel Goodman: three. Oh, you have three? Okay. Two and three. Yeah. I have three
[00:11:24] Mallory Lee: boys. Yep.
[00:11:27] Mel Goodman: Okay. I'm curious for you, did you notice a shift in how you thought about your career after two versus one?
[00:11:36] Mallory Lee: Definitely. Yeah.
[00:11:37] Mel Goodman: Yeah.
[00:11:37] Mallory Lee: So I decided when I was pregnant with my first, that I wanted to try being a stay at home mom, and so I resigned from my role and.
[00:11:46] Started doing some consulting pretty much right away after he arrived. The inflection point was once we had two, and our second one was coming up on maybe a year old, and [00:12:00] I was still trying to juggle both of these things with like part-time childcare and then part-time work. Mm-hmm. And so I did feel like I had this choice to make, which was, am I going to.
[00:12:12] Keep consulting, am I going to quit working completely or do I wanna go back full time? And that is, that was the point I decided that I wanted to go back full time is when my second was about 1-year-old.
[00:12:24] Mel Goodman: Yeah. That's a very common situation to be in after you've had two or maybe three. Right. And you start to realize that.
[00:12:34] I mean, there's so many different things that you start to realize and not everybody has these same feelings, but oftentimes what I hear is that once you have two, you start to really reprioritize how you wanna use your time, and you start to really, I you identify that 10 is moving really fast. And you wanna be around a little bit more
[00:12:55] Shannon Curran: at home,
[00:12:56] Mel Goodman: or at least you want to be able to have the flexibility and the [00:13:00] freedom at work to live the life that you wanna live at home and be the mom that you wanna be.
[00:13:04] And it makes it really, really hard in certain roles, certain companies to do that. And so we have to be so deliberate with how we essentially design our careers while being the mom that we wanna be. In terms of boundary setting, in terms of letting people know confidently when you are available, when you're not available, how you can work with me or work with others when I'm not available.
[00:13:28] Right? Like giving them that protocol essentially. And so it takes a lot of intentionality and effort to, to get to a point where you are designing your career where it feels sustainable. A lot of women feel that it's just unsustainable at the pace that they're going, especially in tech, right?
[00:13:46] Shannon Curran: Yep.
[00:13:47] Mel Goodman: Yeah.
[00:13:48] Shannon Curran: Yeah. For me, I, I felt the shift in my career after my first, because I was like, oh, I'm, I've told this story many times, but I came back to my first maternity leave. They had dissolved my team with me gone, [00:14:00] and they were like, mm-hmm. You can, which is fine. I got a call when I was five weeks postpartum being like, Hey, do you have a second?
[00:14:06] And I just assumed I was getting laid off. I was like, and I was at the point where I was like, whatever. I was a VP of marketing, so I was like, at this point, like high risk, high reward job, right? So I was like, you know what, whatever happens. And they were like, no, we want you to come back, but we're getting rid of your whole team.
[00:14:20] And I was like, oh.
[00:14:22] Mel Goodman: Hmm.
[00:14:22] Shannon Curran: I'm learning how to breastfeed. Like I don't have a a perspective on this right now. Like, I don't know how to help you. And so I came back and was like, Hey, maybe I wanna start doing something on my own. So I knew I wanted to be a consultant at some point. I just didn't know when that was gonna be.
[00:14:36] And my tagline at the time was, babies make you brave. And I was like, all right, let's go. This is what, like, you know, I knew what I was giving up by sitting in eight hour executive meetings, rebuilding a team I had already built, you know, I was like, I don't know if I wanna do that again. But after my second, I had the sustainability conversation with myself, which was like, I had been in business for a year.
[00:14:58] Yeah. I had two kids [00:15:00] in two years and start my, and I started my business within that time. So I, yeah, it's kinda a blur, but I did it to myself. Like I had like no boundaries on myself. Like I had gotten to the point where like. I was pregnant, super sick. I was so sick with my second, like it was so bad and I was like burning myself at every end.
[00:15:19] Feel like I was missing so much of my first, like, I was like, I feel like I missed a year of his life. Like I just like wasn't present. It was hard. People ask me about the like 15 to 18 month like time. I'm like, I think I didn't like it, but I also was throwing up so much. So like, I don't know. I'm not sure Could how you like that was like me or him, you know what I mean?
[00:15:41] Like I don't know if it was fear him, I don't know. But I had a big kind of reckoning when I came back after my second. I think someone once said to me, it might have been my brother that was like, one kid is an accessory. Two kids is a lifestyle change. And I was like, yeah. And I felt that deep that,
[00:15:56] Mel Goodman: that's a great way to describe it.
[00:15:59] Shannon Curran: I [00:16:00] felt that deep, you know, like I was like, oh my God. Like we are both a hundred percent on for the rest of our lives. Like no one gets breaks. Like we, I had two babies at the same time. Right. So it's not like I had a kid that could sit in color while I was taking care of the baby like it was. You know there was danger.
[00:16:16] Mel Goodman: Yeah.
[00:16:16] Shannon Curran: Uh uh, you know, a foot. And so I had this thought, it's when I actually brought on business coaches. Like when I came back after my second, I came back at like five weeks postpartum. 'cause I had, I could just take one client back and it was actually kind of good. I was having an identity crisis. I was like, I could use some work right now.
[00:16:35] And I actually brought on coaches 'cause I was like, I can't. Joke around anymore here, like, I need some systems, like there's, you know, like I, I need like a sales process. I need a clear offer. I need a clear, like I can't do. 10 prospect calls to get a deal. Like I need to be able to disqualify early. Like I, that kind of stuff is when I made that choice to have like real structure around my business.
[00:16:59] Yeah, [00:17:00] shout out to Nick and Erica. That helped me a lot with that, and I think that's really what, that's when I had to reevaluate like what even my own business looked like. It wasn't just my career. Like it was like a a two step evaluation process, right? Like
[00:17:11] Mel Goodman: Absolutely. Yeah.
[00:17:13] Shannon Curran: Mm-hmm.
[00:17:13] Mel Goodman: Yeah. The identity piece too is such a common occurrence, right?
[00:17:18] Where you're trying to reconcile with who you were before versus who you are now.
[00:17:23] Mallory Lee: Mm-hmm.
[00:17:24] Shannon Curran: Yeah. What are you seeing are the most common, kind of like specific things women are coming to you for and is that what you end up solving for them? Like is that what you actually end up solving for or are you like digging deeper to be like, it actually might not be that thing, it might be something bigger.
[00:17:40] Mel Goodman: Yeah, we, I mean, there's working, motherhood is a moving target, right? It, it's such a complex topic. There are so many angles that you can take it, right? There's the mm-hmm redefinition of success. There's identity, there's capacity, there's time. That is a huge pain point for people. [00:18:00] There's the massive overload that we're experiencing, particularly in modern motherhood.
[00:18:06] There's, there are so many, there's burnout, right? Like there are so many topics. Yeah. And so that's why I am going down the lane of indecision, right? Mm-hmm. Those who are struggling with making career decisions, high stakes decisions, and that's, you know, a lot of what I can support with, with my background from leadership and creating vision and strategy and executing on that strategy.
[00:18:29] But as part of that career in decision, we always start out with big picture thinking, right? What do you actually want your life to look like? Let's start out with how you want your life to feel. What does success mean to you in this season? There are different seasons in your life, right? Mm-hmm. If it means that right now you're keeping your foot on the gas and not necessarily climbing the ladder, that doesn't necessarily mean that in four years you can't climb the ladder, right?
[00:18:56] So, so we always start out with, we always start out with that. [00:19:00] The identity piece is a massive one. Getting clear on who you are now, what matters to you now, what your core values are, what interests you, how you can use your time right when you are alone. Like how do you wanna use your time when you are alone?
[00:19:15] When you have that two minutes,
[00:19:16] Shannon Curran: what's that?
[00:19:17] Mel Goodman: Right? Right. What is that? And so like when you have that two minutes started waffling and wondering like, Ooh, what should I do? You know exactly what matters to you. You know what brings you joy, right? So identity is a big one. Confidence is another one. Doubting ourselves in motherhood, but not necessarily.
[00:19:37] Yes, there's a lot of doubt in how we mother, how we parent, but a lot of it is doubting ourselves in our career post motherhood. The confidence dip that it, that, that we most of us experience due to a variety of factors. Our brain
[00:19:52] Mallory Lee: and it feeds off of the confidence that you wanna have. As a mom too, like, I'm not getting this right and I'm not getting that right, [00:20:00] so therefore I can't get anything.
[00:20:01] Right.
[00:20:01] Mel Goodman: That's right. Like, exactly like I can just fail at two
[00:20:03] Shannon Curran: full-time jobs now. That's so great.
[00:20:05] Mel Goodman: Yeah, and that's the story that most women tell themselves that they're failing and I, that it breaks my heart, it's, it breaks my heart. Like this is part of my mission, part of why I do what I do, because again, these are highly capable, talented women who feel like they're failing in every area of their life.
[00:20:23] When they're really not giving themselves enough grace and they're being way too hard on themselves, and a lot of women assume that something is wrong with them when their confidence dips after motherhood, but what changes is context, right? You have less time to prepare for a presentation. You have fewer quiet hours to think deeply.
[00:20:41] You're constantly switching between roles. That context switching can really, yeah. Make a big impact on your confidence, your ability to feel like you know your craft. And so when the conditions around around you change like that, your performance can feel very different. And so I always really wanna remind those that I work with that.
[00:20:58] That doesn't mean your [00:21:00] capability has changed. Let's get very clear on what sets you apart. Let's let get very clear on your core strengths, what your superpowers are, so that you can amplify them, right? Mm-hmm. So that's a lot of, I mean, I know I just went into a variety of topics, but like I said. It's a moving target and it's a complex topic.
[00:21:15] And so there are a lot of topics that come up in this experience of being a working mom, and a lot of what I coach on and advise on is based on my own lived experience, having gone from surviving to feeling very calm and content in my life at this point.
[00:21:33] Mallory Lee: Yeah. Something you said just really brought back a memory for me.
[00:21:37] So after our third came along, Cohen. That was when I went back to work full time at a company called Terminus and we would do like some trips to Atlanta every once in a while, and he was still pretty little. But one thing that I remember is that once I had that third baby, the sort of like mommy brain [00:22:00] was a super, super real thing for me.
[00:22:03] And so I was in these meetings at work and I was a relatively new hire and I just, I caught myself literally thinking through every single word before I said that word. And it was like, I can't form a complete sentence. What in the world is happening to me? And I, you know, I later found out that the more kids you have, the more the mommy brain kicks in.
[00:22:26] The older you are and the more pregnancies you've gone through. And so I really think that it was the mommy brain, and that was a huge hit for my confidence because I felt like I wasn't gonna be able to put together a coherent thought. And so I was very scared to even say anything at all. And it did go away.
[00:22:44] I, I can't remember exactly when it went away, but it was a big confidence thing for me at work, especially because I was like a brand new VP and trying to, you know, make an impact fast, but.
[00:22:55] Mel Goodman: Yeah.
[00:22:55] Mallory Lee: That's gotta be part of the equation for a lot of people. I have to imagine. [00:23:00]
[00:23:00] Mel Goodman: Of course. And I can 100% relate to your story.
[00:23:04] I had,
[00:23:04] Mallory Lee: yeah,
[00:23:05] Mel Goodman: so much imposter syndrome coming back from maternity leave. And my story was, it sounds very similar to yours in that, so I started my career at Salesforce and then I went back to Salesforce later on in my career. And when I went back I was five months pregnant and that was. Oh, it was a really, really anxiety provoking experience for me to go to a company five months pregnant.
[00:23:27] Like you can't control timing of that. But at the same time, I felt so much internal guilt and it didn't help that, like the leadership structure I had above me was shifting significantly. And so I couldn't even tell my boss that I was pregnant when I first joined. So then it was like five and a half months pregnant by the time I told my my skip level.
[00:23:47] And his reaction was. Not ideal to say the least. Mm-hmm. And so keep in mind, Salesforce has a six month mat leave policy. So I, and I wanted to take that six months, and so I was only there for about four [00:24:00] months before I took a six month leave, and I was a second line leader. And then we had one of my leaders take over my team while I was gone.
[00:24:07] So he had, mm-hmm. Managed my team longer than I had by the time I came back. I came back with so much insecurity. So much imposter syndrome. I was so worried about, I was comparing myself against that leader. I second guess every sentence, like you said, I had to validate every deliverable with my husband who's a corporate attorney, has nothing to do with sales ec or leadership, and he's like, lady,
[00:24:33] Shannon Curran: I don't know.
[00:24:33] I don't know what you're doing. Like I don't really know. That looks like it's spelled right. Bless his heart.
[00:24:38] Mel Goodman: Oh, literally, bless his heart. I will never forget those days. Every single night on the couch, second guessing myself over analyzing, needing validation from him. So it's real. It really is. Yeah. And I can't even tell you really exactly how that shifted for my, for me as well.
[00:24:55] It just kind of, you just kind of eventually come out of it. And I think that has to do [00:25:00] with mommy brain, right? Like after a year of postpartum, your brain starts to shift.
[00:25:05] Shannon Curran: Hmm, the haze, I'm still in one right now, so
[00:25:09] Mallory Lee: qr,
[00:25:09] Shannon Curran: I have a nine month old together.
[00:25:10] Mallory Lee: You're already amazing. Appreciate, you're amazing now.
[00:25:13] So like, what's gonna happen? Appreciate, you know, in a few
[00:25:16] Shannon Curran: months what's gonna happen. I'll find something to stress about, but I like, I think, uh, I actually feel like I had a different experience that I became very resentful, like I mm-hmm. If I saw other people mess things up, my grace for people was like really small because I was like, I haven't slept in six months and I can get this done.
[00:25:37] So what is wrong with you? Like I was not, which is not a beautiful thing. I'm glad I'm saying this publicly to. And enough for people that know me are listening, but it wasn't beautiful of me. But I remember just being like, I think I was like holding on for dear life and I was just barely getting by. So if I saw anyone have any like ease in their life, I was like, and they couldn't like, and they weren't [00:26:00] achieving in the way that I decided was important.
[00:26:02] I really struggled with that often. I wouldn't say it out loud, but I would like, yeah, just really struggle. And then also if I made a mistake, it was catastrophic to me. It was like, my life is over. My business will never succeed. My children will starve. Like that's how far it went. Like it was like so bad.
[00:26:22] It was like, oh no. And so like. You know, there's a lot of audacity to starting your own business on both ends, like for better or for worse, right? And so it was, thank also bless the heart of my husband who was like. It's just a day, it's just a meeting. It's just like nothing is permanent. Like you'll be fine.
[00:26:40] Like we are like kind of zoom out, zoom out, which I was really struggling to do. Like I,
[00:26:47] Mel Goodman: yeah.
[00:26:47] Shannon Curran: And right now I don't really know how I feel right now. Maybe we'll come back in six months to see how I'm,
[00:26:54] Mel Goodman: yeah. But I can, I can so relate also with your story of, I mean, [00:27:00] two things come to mind for me. Number one, making a mistake.
[00:27:03] Whew. I mean, we are so hard on ourselves as high cheating women. And I'll never forget, there was a moment where I made a really big mistake at work. This was when I was having this big imposter syndrome and I was hysterical. I was crying. And my, my daughter, who was my oldest daughter, who was at the time three.
[00:27:22] She saw me crying and she asked what was wrong, and I told her I made a big mistake and she looked at me and she said, but mommy, everybody makes mistakes. And I mean, it's just, oh my God, perspective, the perspective of a three-year-old, just like, ugh. It's just, it helps us as mothers to like. To your point, Shannon, like zoom out.
[00:27:43] And it's really hard to do in that moment because you think everything is on the line in that moment.
[00:27:49] Shannon Curran: Yeah.
[00:27:49] Mel Goodman: But another thing that comes to mind as you were sharing your story is the thing that bothered me a lot was those who didn't have kids and would like stroll in [00:28:00] late to a meeting at 9:00 AM and I'm like,
[00:28:02] Mallory Lee: oh
[00:28:02] Mel Goodman: no.
[00:28:02] Do you know what I have
[00:28:03] Mallory Lee: done
[00:28:04] Mel Goodman: between the hours of six to nine? To get
[00:28:08] Mallory Lee: here. I have lived three lives before you woke up this morning.
[00:28:11] Shannon Curran: Exactly. Have you ever tried to put pants on a 2-year-old? Like have you ever And they're never the right pants.
[00:28:17] Mel Goodman: A 2-year-old out the door.
[00:28:20] Shannon Curran: Every morning I get a 2-year-old and a nine month old al the door alone and it is, and feed two dogs.
[00:28:25] It is like I have achieved, I remember the first day I did it, I was like. Oh, I deserve a treat. And I'm like, no, this is your life now. Like this is not like a one day like you ran a marathon. This is your mornings every day the rest of your life. Gal like, oh gosh.
[00:28:39] Mel Goodman: Sounds like you need a treat every day. To me,
[00:28:41] Shannon Curran: I do.
[00:28:41] For real. I do. Yeah,
[00:28:42] Mel Goodman: for real.
[00:28:43] Shannon Curran: My life is full of treats at this point.
[00:28:45] Mel Goodman: Every time I go and get myself like my favorite ice. Latte. I am like, I, I deserve it. I deserve it. Oh yeah. Even though we have a wonderful coffee at home,
[00:28:54] Shannon Curran: I don't care. It's life is, there's very little that that's also brings serotonin, you know, like just take it.
[00:28:59] [00:29:00] Exactly.
[00:29:00] Mallory Lee: Yeah. Yeah. And the kids have to have the cake pops when you have your ice latte. I remember the first time I took all three boys outta the house. Cohen must have been, oh. I, I don't even know what he was little 'cause I was wearing him in like a carrier. But we went to Target and we all had cake pops and like celebrated the fact that we were out of the house and yeah.
[00:29:24] Three, you gotta celebrate those wins.
[00:29:26] Shannon Curran: We assume most of our listeners are working moms, right? And of them. My dad shut out to my dad. If someone, obviously working with you is the real solution, but would love to hear like, what are some things that people can do if they're starting to feel this? What they assume to be burnout or this like kind of catastrophic, like everything feels so big, I feel trapped in my life.
[00:29:46] Like a lot of it is that like what are like some questions they can ask themselves or like things they can do to start. On the journey to being able to feel more like themselves again.
[00:29:56] Mel Goodman: Absolutely. The first, I think most important [00:30:00] piece of this is to put language to how you're feeling so that you can normalize it.
[00:30:05] Because a lot of us feel alone in how we're feeling. We feel like we're the only ones that are experiencing. This dynamic, this struggle. And so that's, that's the first thing that, and you can, I, that's one of the biggest things that I support women with is like, here's exactly why you're feeling the way you feel.
[00:30:22] Here's what's happening in the world right now. Here's modern motherhood at its finest. Right? And so that's a really important factor. As far as the, the ques, some questions that they can ask themselves if they're, you know, feeling like they are potentially at a crossroads. Like there's, let me back up for a second.
[00:30:40] 'cause there's kind of two different camps that I work with. And Mallory, you asked that question earlier of do, do you work with those who have not yet had a baby yet? And I, what came to mind for me there was, it's really like. Those who, who initially wanna start working with me are in a bit of a [00:31:00] survival mode.
[00:31:00] They feel like they're drowning. And so a lot of that we start with systems. Okay, let's, let's talk about your capacity at home. Let's talk about what's happening there. What does your partnership look like? Right? How many kids do you have? What does your morning routine in terms of getting the kids out the door look like?
[00:31:16] Like all of these day to day. Tell me about a day in the life, right? Like how, what is,
[00:31:20] Mallory Lee: yeah.
[00:31:21] Mel Goodman: Where is your energy going? Can we put your best energy toward the things that are actually going to move the needle in your life, and then mediocre energy to the things that don't matter as much, knowing that you might get a mediocre result from those.
[00:31:35] Right. That's an really important thing is, especially again, high achieving women. We wanna be in control. We wanna give our best effort to everything and everyone.
[00:31:45] Mallory Lee: Yeah.
[00:31:45] Mel Goodman: And so then we're putting 110% into everything. And then that's why we burn out, and that's why we get to this unsustainable place in our careers and lives.
[00:31:54] And so a lot of this is identifying, okay, what matters most to us right now? That's [00:32:00] where you put your best energy. Then the other ancillary things, let's give it mediocre energy. Not everything deserves your best energy, right? We don't have unlimited energy, right? So survival mode is a big one for the, the moms who are very early in motherhood like.
[00:32:16] A year in, and then after, usually at two years, you know, maybe they're starting to consider a second or they've had a second, that's when they start to realize that they're at this kind of career inflection point and they start to see that it could potentially be unsustainable. And so. One of the first things that we also look at is something actually that Shannon said, which is creating boundaries with yourself.
[00:32:42] Oftentimes we think boundaries are for others, but we really need boundaries with ourself as ambitious women because again, we're putting a hundred, we constantly wanna be putting 110% into everything that we do, and so we have to have boundaries around that mediocre, that best energy. [00:33:00] So that's one, one thing that you can really be honest with yourself about.
[00:33:04] Is it myself that I actually need to have some boundaries with, right? Do I need to create a better routine for myself so that I have 15 minutes of time for myself every single day, right? So that I can give my good energy to others, to my kids, to my family. So those are just like a few high level basic things that, you know, that come up in conversation.
[00:33:26] But as far as, you know, when somebody is at a crossroads and they're really thinking through a change, we wanna get clear on. Do we need to make a really massive decision right now, or can we make a smaller decision and maybe a bigger decision later on to see if that smaller decision can affect the change that you're looking for?
[00:33:45] So maybe it's not a complete exit at a corporate, maybe it's not an exit. You don't
[00:33:49] Mallory Lee: have to blow your life up,
[00:33:51] Mel Goodman: right? You do not have to blow your life up. Maybe it's a roll switch. Maybe it's setting boundaries internally that you didn't [00:34:00] consider yet. Right? Mm-hmm. Maybe it is a pivot to a different company.
[00:34:05] There's so many different avenues. Maybe it's a pause. Maybe you need some time to think, right? So we get clear based on decision making frameworks, and that's how, that's how we go, go through it. But the first step, really going back to your question, Shannon, the most important step is language. Because going back to that topic of confidence is what's going to hold women back in.
[00:34:30] Making a decision in a next step. Mm-hmm. And when you put language around it, when you normalize it, when you realize you're not alone, you start to see, oh, okay, here's why I'm feeling this way. It's okay. I need to zoom out. Mm-hmm. So hopefully that that gives, um, gives you some perspective on how I coach and advise.
[00:34:51] Shannon Curran: Yeah. I think there's so many options now because our careers are like, I think when all of us work. [00:35:00] Digitally, right? Like you don't really go home like you wanna say that you do, but like even the people that are like, I don't have Slack on my phone, I don't have, I'm like, great, I don't have that kind of boundary.
[00:35:09] But I know that there are people that do that. But I know multiple people that have taken FMLA like to take care for their kids. Like when their kids are four or five. Like I have a friend that's navigating a, like an A DH ADHD diagnosis with her son and he's struggling. And so she's like, yeah, I'm just gonna take FMLA.
[00:35:25] And so she just, and then she went back to her job. She's like, we needed a reset as a family. Yeah. And then her husband, husband took it the next s summer. I was like, amazing. That is amazing. I've never heard of anyone doing that. I didn't even know it was possible.
[00:35:39] Mel Goodman: Yeah. We did it. I did it once. My husband did it once.
[00:35:42] When childcare fell through, we were drowning and we didn't want so much instability with in our home and, and just to bring on a new nanny right away. We wanted know it. My, my husband to. To care for the kids for a period of time because I had just come back from mat leave. So it didn't make sense for me to, but it is [00:36:00] getting to be more common.
[00:36:01] And I really believe it's all about the narrative that you tell, right? Because I think a lot of women will feel if they ask for a leave, will my commitment be questioned? Will they think that I'm not gonna come back? Sure. How will I be perceived? Right. There's all these question marks, and again, that takes another big confidence dip, and so it really boils down to the story that you tell and how when you come back from an FMLA or a leave, you come back stronger, right?
[00:36:27] And you can showcase how you'll come back stronger ahead of time as well. I'm a huge proponent of taking a leave to get your, get yourself straight, right? If you're really, really struggling, or to get stilt and get clear because. We all know when you are working a full-time job and you're full-time at home, or you are, whether full-time at home or just being a mom outside of your full-time job, right?
[00:36:52] You don't have any time to think. So I think taking Aleve is such a, a beautiful idea. [00:37:00]
[00:37:00] Mallory Lee: My mind is blown. I didn't even know that this was like a thing. I didn't
[00:37:04] Shannon Curran: either. I dunno,
[00:37:05] Mel Goodman: you know what else I heard about recently that I had never heard of? I heard a mom talking about when she was in corporate, she now has her own business, but for 10 years she split a, a job, a role with another mom.
[00:37:18] Mallory Lee: Mm.
[00:37:19] Mel Goodman: And they even have heard of that after, like Yeah. And even after a few years, they positioned themselves to get a promotion together in that role.
[00:37:27] Shannon Curran: That's so cute.
[00:37:28] Mel Goodman: Isn't that cool?
[00:37:30] Mallory Lee: Yeah. I think it, they just call it job sharing, right.
[00:37:33] Mel Goodman: Yeah, I, but you have to, to,
[00:37:35] Mallory Lee: so then you do 20 hours. I'll do 20 hours and like Exactly.
[00:37:38] But it's the same role.
[00:37:39] Shannon Curran: We would be the best full-time employee anyone had ever hired. If I only had to do 20, also both of us would work 40 hours. 'cause we're out of our minds.
[00:37:47] Mel Goodman: That's a struggle with
[00:37:48] smart
[00:37:48] Mel Goodman: money never work, right? Like you end up working so many more hours, then you're supposed to
[00:37:54] Mallory Lee: Yeah.
[00:37:54] Shannon Curran: Yeah. The hours. I always, um, when I was managing teams, I would tell them burnout does not come from [00:38:00] hours worked. It comes from lack of impact seen. Right. It is not about for me. I've noticed like when you have high achievers on your team, and I know Mel and Mallory, you've managed tons of people too, it's like they actually don't burn out from hours.
[00:38:15] It's not that they're working too much, it's that they're working to what end, right? Like they don't see the goalpost, like the goalpost gets getting moved on them, or they don't feel like they understand what it's building to, and that's where like. For me now, I work a ton of hours, but they're on my own terms.
[00:38:33] I work kind of like the hours where I want to and I see it so much impact that gives me energy, right? And so I'm happy to do it right? And so I think that's another thing of like feeling so lost. 'cause you don't know where you're going and that's where the burnout comes in, right? Like it's not. About time when you think you're like, oh, I'll just do less time.
[00:38:51] It's like, I actually don't think that's gonna make you feel better. Like, and you, you also are capable. You're totally
[00:38:56] Mallory Lee: right.
[00:38:56] Shannon Curran: You're not capable of doing less time. Yeah. Because you are who [00:39:00] you are and you're gonna wanna work. Right.
[00:39:01] Mallory Lee: A hundred percent. I think you're right about that. When I've been at a couple places where we had like.
[00:39:07] Really tough things going on in the business related to like customer retention and churn. And I just remember telling myself, no matter how much I scale this place, we can't keep the customers. It doesn't matter. Nothing I do right is gonna ultimately matter. And those were the roles where I was like. Up and quit because I like can't take it anymore.
[00:39:33] And so I think that that is pretty similar to what you're talking about.
[00:39:36] Shannon Curran: Totally. That's it. Yeah.
[00:39:38] Mel Goodman: And you know what's really interesting about that is exactly why moms burnout too, if they don't know what they're aiming for in their life. And that's why I always start with vision and big picture thinking, zooming out, what kind of life do you wanna live?
[00:39:52] Right?
[00:39:52] Shannon Curran: Yeah.
[00:39:53] Mel Goodman: Same thing. What are you aiming for in your life, right? When you don't know what you're aiming for, you're just. Meandering. Right. And that leads [00:40:00] to burnout.
[00:40:01] Shannon Curran: Yep. Mm-hmm. And you can't make decisions if you don't know where you're going. Like I have exactly have probably at least one call a week with someone being like, Hey, I think I might wanna go out on my own.
[00:40:10] I, I now have created a So you wanna go solo email that I send to people after? 'cause I'm like. Oh, like this is, and I don't get paid for this, but I love when people get to take like complete control over their lives. And I'm like, especially women, I'm like, go for it. You know? But I always say to them, the first thing to do, and I got this advice early on, was either type, write whatever.
[00:40:31] Like what do you want your life to look like the next six months, not your job. And then I want you to back your job into that life. Like what does your job need to look like to give you that life? Mm-hmm. It could be how much money do you actually need to make? How many hours do you actually wanna work?
[00:40:46] Like, what kinds of people do you wanna work with? Yeah. That's the kind of stuff that I think people go out on their own. And this is a little different than, this is probably like a very small niche of what you do, Mel, but of like, they think, they're like, oh, so I just need to offer a thing. I need to sell it.
[00:40:59] I need to [00:41:00] make this. It's like, well actually you, you have the gift and the responsibility now. To build your life. Like this is, this is the cool part about this. No one is giving you a calendar that they tell you what times you have to be here and no one, no, there are no OKRs created by someone else.
[00:41:15] Like it's all you Exactly. Girlfriend. So like figure it out, like, you know,
[00:41:22] Mel Goodman: a hundred percent. Oh my gosh. And I think that can be very freeing and scary for a lot of women. It's scary. Yes. To know that they are in control, but like so many of us want control. And yet when. You think about the idea that you technically are the CEO of your life and your career, like you get to make those decisions.
[00:41:41] That can be very daunting for a lot of women. Mm-hmm.
[00:41:44] Mallory Lee: Definitely. Well, I'm glad that you are able to help them because.
[00:41:49] Shannon Curran: Seriously.
[00:41:49] Mallory Lee: I'm sure that it's just like I should
[00:41:50] send '
[00:41:51] Shannon Curran: em to you instead of my email.
[00:41:55] Mallory Lee: Yeah,
[00:41:56] Mel Goodman: we have a lot, I've worked with a lot of women who have decided to leave [00:42:00] corporate and start their own business, and I kind of help them, not kind of, I help them create their business idea and things like that, so.
[00:42:06] Mallory Lee: Oh, that's so cool.
[00:42:08] Shannon Curran: So cool.
[00:42:09] Mallory Lee: Well, we're gonna come up on time here. I want to, I wanna put something in the back of your head, Mel, for next time.
[00:42:15] 'cause I fully feel like you're coming back to talk to us again. And I think that it should be about your calm home and your systems, because it sounds like you have a lot to share there. And I wanna know what that is. Now, keep in mind, I have three boys, therefore my systems might need to be a little more hardcore.
[00:42:31] You never know, but I would love to learn from you on that. Um, next time and before we wrap up, we have a little segment that we like to do each week where we talk about something that saved us this week. Mm-hmm. And it could be a person or a thing or one of your systems. Something that just like made your life as a high functioning working mom.
[00:42:54] Work workout better this week. So, yeah, I need to think about mine. One of you guys can go first. [00:43:00] Love
[00:43:00] Shannon Curran: it. No, maybe it's one of your calm systems. Maybe it's something that that would Yeah. Maybe if you'd love to share one of
[00:43:05] Mel Goodman: those, Chris. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so many things saved my life this week, but I, I think for me in particular this week, 'cause I was traveling last week and so I was pretty tired this week.
[00:43:14] We traveled, we were traveling with, with our kids up until Monday of this week. And so the thing that really saved me this week was going to bed early. And sleep like as, as simple as it sounds like. I just, I needed to get to bed early. I was wiped. I was falling asleep on the couch at like seven. And so going to bed early, right?
[00:43:33] Like instead of forcing myself to, to stay up to the normal time that I would stay up. The other thing that always saves me though is packing lunches the night before. That's a big system of ours and just like making sure that we have our dinner set, we have, you know, we know who's cooking, who's cleaning, who's doing lunches, all of that kinda stuff always saves me.
[00:43:53] Shannon Curran: Yeah,
[00:43:53] Mallory Lee: I like it.
[00:43:55] Shannon Curran: I heard someone one time say about, uh, the hack to a morning routine is the [00:44:00] nighttime. They're like, good luck. I know if I hate that. And I'm like, I hate to tell you guys what you really need to do is go to bed earlier. That's how you get to wake up earlier. It's not that you just wake up earlier, like, you know what I mean?
[00:44:10] Like it's how it works unfortunately.
[00:44:12] Mel Goodman: Right. Well, and what happened on Monday or on Tuesday was I was just so wiped out. I could barely parent. I like was having a hard time focusing at work and I was just like, I have to get to bed early. So it's like such a simple thing, but it makes such a big difference.
[00:44:25] Sleep.
[00:44:26] Shannon Curran: I know.
[00:44:27] Mel Goodman: Yeah.
[00:44:27] Shannon Curran: Yeah. Tough. Uh, topic for me this week. I have a nine month old and a sleep regression, but we'll get there. But yeah, it's okay. Yeah. I'm
[00:44:35] Mel Goodman: sorry
[00:44:35] Shannon Curran: that I, I forgot about this.
[00:44:35] Mel Goodman: Sorry that I Ted up.
[00:44:37] Shannon Curran: No, it's all right. I went to bed early. I was just up. Um, okay. My saved this week is in relation to said nine month old.
[00:44:47] I am a big proponent of baby wearing, like when my kids are little, I love wearing them. I have a carrier that I love. Bless my wild bird aerial carrier sponsor me someday. I love this thing and I wore my son in it for [00:45:00] to, he was probably about nine months. He was a really big baby though, so it's like, it get, he got heavy and my daughter is, she hates it now.
[00:45:07] And with the second kid, I feel like you need the hands even more like, so the baby wearings even more critical. So I actually bought. Like a sling that I can just put her on my waist. Not one of those like tush baby things. I don't, I don't like that thing. I feel like I hit stuff in it. Um, fanny
[00:45:23] Mel Goodman: pack,
[00:45:24] Shannon Curran: but it's, yeah, exactly.
[00:45:25] It's literally, this is literally like, I put her in my pocket it feels like, so it's like having her on my hip. I just don't have to put my arm like as much around her and I don't also hurt myself, which is what was happening is that I was carrying a much heavier baby all the time. 'cause she wants to be.
[00:45:40] With me all the time. So it's this like little sling thing and I, it's like putting her in my pocket. So I have a hundred percent of one arm and like 75% of the other arm, which feels like. A lot more access and she's still like free so she can throw herself out of it. So I have to be careful, uh, with her in it.
[00:45:58] But, uh, she [00:46:00] tried, but it was like a major say I, the second I put it on mal. I was like, oh, I can't wait to tell Valerie about this on the podcast. This is a major say this week.
[00:46:08] Mel Goodman: I love that. Nice.
[00:46:10] Shannon Curran: Yeah, that's really good. So this is a
[00:46:12] new
[00:46:12] Mel Goodman: thing. Okay.
[00:46:14] Shannon Curran: So yeah, think about it. I just looked it up as like a toddler sling.
[00:46:17] It was like a toddler sling. Um,
[00:46:19] Mel Goodman: I think I know instead of a, I think I've seen it, it like, it like goes across your body.
[00:46:24] Shannon Curran: Yep.
[00:46:24] Mel Goodman: Yeah. I've seen it and I'm, I always get so jealous of when I see the baby carriers. 'cause I so wish that I was still in that stage of carrying my baby.
[00:46:33] Shannon Curran: I,
[00:46:33] Mel Goodman: it just,
[00:46:34] Shannon Curran: it's like, it's the, my favorite part.
[00:46:36] Um, yeah. Of like the, the newborn time. Oh,
[00:46:40] Mel Goodman: nest.
[00:46:40] Shannon Curran: And I was glad I did it as, as much as I did. Like my son contact napped till he was like six months old, but I like allowed it to happen, you know? Yeah. The second time was a little harder, but, but yeah, the sling made a big difference. If anyone's still in the trenches of littles, um, is a big, big difference this [00:47:00] week.
[00:47:00] So
[00:47:00] Mel Goodman: good.
[00:47:01] Shannon Curran: Mm-hmm.
[00:47:02] Mallory Lee: That is good. All right. My save this week. I'm struggling. Um, I'm feeling better today because the sun has been out today, and I think that's honestly just the thing that saved me this week. Mm-hmm. Is like a warmer Friday with sunshine. I totally turned this around because I was a little worried I was gonna be like a Debbie Downer coming in and doing the recording today.
[00:47:26] So anyway, you're a ran. I'm feeling a lot better. She
[00:47:29] Shannon Curran: always is like, is this you as a downer? I was like, you're pretty. The kind of wonderful.
[00:47:37] Mallory Lee: Oh goodness.
[00:47:38] Mel Goodman: Sunshine. Sunshine truly makes the biggest difference. It really does. Especially when you're in the Raspberry East coast. Oof. Gosh.
[00:47:45] Mallory Lee: Yeah.
[00:47:46] Mel Goodman: And
[00:47:46] Shannon Curran: coming to the end of seasonal depression, like you're like, oh man, like March is like, you need it. You're like, I gotta know that this is ending. Like I have to know.
[00:47:55] Mel Goodman: Hundred percent
[00:47:56] Mallory Lee: have to.
[00:47:58] Mel Goodman: Other thing that I struggle
[00:47:59] Mallory Lee: with. [00:48:00] Oh, go
[00:48:00] Mel Goodman: ahead. I ask, can you get outside for like five minutes today? Just to really enhance the sunshine?
[00:48:06] Mallory Lee: Yeah. Yeah. I did walk the dog a little today just for, I don't know, probably like 10 or 15 minutes. Yeah. And then we actually have a lot of landscapers here doing some stuff around like the side of our house, and so I had to go out and chat with them for several minutes too.
[00:48:21] And so I was out there talking about the yard and got some extra time outside. So it's been nice. Good.
[00:48:26] Mel Goodman: Okay. Good.
[00:48:27] Mallory Lee: Yeah.
[00:48:27] Good.
[00:48:28] Mallory Lee: Yeah. Thank you. Oh my goodness guys. I know we have a hard stop. Mel, thank you so, so, so much. I cannot believe how fun this was. I can't wait to have you back. I would love for you to be here like as often as you can.
[00:48:41] So I love, thanks for talking to us today.
[00:48:44] Mel Goodman: Happy to come back. It was so fun to be with both of you today.
[00:48:48] Shannon Curran: So if
[00:48:48] Mallory Lee: people wanna work with you, what's the
[00:48:50] Shannon Curran: best way to. Get in touch with you or if they wanna follow you, you should probably write a book. But I dunno if you've done that yet, but if they wanted to do it.
[00:48:57] Yeah.
[00:48:58] Mel Goodman: It's funny that you mentioned that. [00:49:00] That is on my radar starting very soon, so thank you for me. Good. I could feel it. I could
[00:49:05] Shannon Curran: feel it. Yeah.
[00:49:06] Mel Goodman: Oh, thank you. That really means a lot. The best place to find me, I spend most of my time on LinkedIn as far as social platform. They can feel free to DM me and, and just say that they listen to this podcast and I'm happy to connect with them for 15 minutes or so.
[00:49:19] They can also check out my website@workmom.io. So either way, I am happy to connect with your audience.
[00:49:25] Shannon Curran: Awesome.
[00:49:25] Mel Goodman: Cool.
[00:49:26] Shannon Curran: Well thank you so, so much and we'll talk to you soon, I'm sure.
[00:49:30] Mel Goodman: Awesome. Thank you both. Talk soon. Have a great weekend. Bye.
[00:49:33] Shannon Curran: Thanks for listening to Full Stack Moms.
[00:49:35] Mallory Lee: We'll be back with more episodes that help you see you're not crazy and you're not alone.
[00:49:40] If we might be your people, please make sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:49:46] Shannon Curran: We have like a serious donut problem in our house, and it's not a problem, it's a solution. It's like, I will say there's like a local like, kind of like locally owned donut place that's on the way home and I, mm-hmm.
[00:49:58] I remember when I was pregnant, I was [00:50:00] feeling very, very. Unsure and nervous about my relationship with my first. So I started having these like donut dates with Sebastian. So I'd bring him like after one day after school, I'd pick him up a little early and now every time I go, do you wanna go get a, he goes,
[00:50:15] Mel Goodman: donut.
[00:50:16] Shannon Curran: And we run out of that.
[00:50:20] Mel Goodman: I love that so much. We are being, and
[00:50:23] Shannon Curran: I asked what kind? Yeah, I asked him what kind he wants. He goes, sprinkles it doesn't matter. Like what if Justin asked what
[00:50:30] Mallory Lee: flavor? He just wants twinkles. That's what I love it. As long as it's the messiest one in the store, that's Oh yeah, that's the one.
[00:50:37] A hundred percent. Yeah, a hundred percent.