Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
A Dawson's Creek Rewatch Podcast for those who missed the boat!
Freaks & Creeks: a Dawson's Creek Podcast dives into each episode of the hit '90s TV show Dawson's Creek with a fresh perspective. Join Cody, Stella, Mal and James as they set sail through turbulent waters determined to understand this iconic teen drama’s place in the modern television zeitgeist.
Speaker B: Welcome to Freaks and Creeks, a Dawson's Creek podcast. The show are four millennials who missed the boat 25 years ago.
Speaker A: Take the time for the first time.
Speaker B: Join us as we experience the series with a fresh perspective week to week and see if our adolescent experiences match up with Dawson and the gang. My name is Cody.
Speaker C: I'm Stella.
Speaker D: I'm Mallory.
Speaker A: And I am James. And we're back. Maybe it's been a while.
Speaker B: We're back.
Speaker A: Dinosaur.
Speaker B: Uh, story.
Speaker A: Steven Spielberg. Exactly. Yeah. It's been one week since you looked at me.
Speaker D: Back street back.
Speaker A: All right. Yeah. Wow. I mean, our last episode was released in October, is that correct?
Speaker B: And it is scary month.
Speaker A: It's February. And actually we record this episode is being recorded on October something. What was the date?
Speaker D: Shit.
Speaker A: But we're, uh, we're we're just going to save this and intentionally not release it for four months just to mess with you. Uh, all.
Speaker B: I hope the queen doesn't die.
Speaker A: Me neither. She's the best. Um, does that happen during the break?
Speaker B: I don't remember.
Speaker A: Man. I mean, a lot has changed and nothing has changed. Right. I guess to help explain a little bit of the break, obviously there were the holidays, but there were also some big life changes, like job changes. Mal and I moved across Portland to the far and distant suburbs. The frozen frozen west of the the Portland metro area. We went on vacation too. Mal and I went to Hawaii. Cody, Stella, you guys were stellar, didn't you?
Speaker C: We went to Mexico.
Speaker B: The frozen west. Uh, just as like you said, for the Portland suburbs. I believe people call Mexico the Frozen West as well.
Speaker A: Yes. So I see.
Speaker C: Frigid it was wonderful. We had a great time.
Speaker B: And if we could have taken every listener with us, we would have. And I'm very sorry that none of you came to meet us at the airport.
Speaker C: One day when we've become superstars, we will have a Freaks and Creeks cruise.
Speaker A: Uh, similar M to Star Trek.
Speaker C: And everyone can come and we'll just cruise on creeks.
Speaker A: Yes. Up and down very small creeks.
Speaker B: We'll tear flowers out of each other's gardens and hand to each other as a romantic gesture. Did I miss this show?
Speaker A: Man? I know.
Speaker C: That's the thing. We were on this break. I don't think we really anticipated it would be this long. It just kind of ended up that way. Um, but it really had me missing Dawson and the gang. I don't know about Dawson.
Speaker D: Dawson.
Speaker C: Yeah, I'll take that back. Um, but I definitely was missing the show and was starting to feel very excited to start watching it again and be with you all to talk about it. So I am very happy to be back.
Speaker A: Yeah, me too. I mean, the show ended on such a strange note with season one's finale. I was excited to watch more of the show, but immediately starting season two I'm just even more excited to see where the show is going to go. The jump in quality is obviously immediately noticeable from the visuals and the audio insane. I feel like the show is written a little bit better, but still, it's clearly Dawson's Creek. Um, and I'm just really looking forward to seeing where they're going to take this season of the show because, uh, I feel like now they have more leeway. They've proven themselves right. The season one curse of a studio kind of driving it into the ground has been broken into season two renewed and they have twice the episode this season.
Speaker B: There's such a level of confidence I feel like is in this pilot or not the pilot, but this first episode of season two compared to the pilot. Because the first season, I feel like they were just treading water the entire time. They did not know if they would get a renewal. I don't really know the ins and outs of every single detail that was going along with that. But you can tell just from watching season one that nothing happened and everything happened at the exact same time. They were very hesitant to actually progress the story. And if you really were to watch the first episode and then the last episode, you could probably get by without knowing anything that happened in between. They were the exact same characters. Whereas this, uh, that we're about to jump into the first episode of season two feels like, oh, we are on a trajectory. Like there are story lines that are being built as we speak. We're going places. It feels good. I am excited.
Speaker A: And I like that they didn't just like sometimes when you come back from a show, especially with a weird first season where they didn't really do a lot that first episode, they're like, hey, none of that stuff happened. Yeah, let's just pretend season one wasn't a thing. And uh, yeah, everybody's different. Weird. I like that they didn't do that with this one. We're starting literally the second after the finale ended for season one. And all the same actors are here. They all have strange new hair, so.
Speaker D: Many hairstyle, changes in less than 24 hours.
Speaker A: But it feels like they're not throwing everything out. They're being respectful of the shitty season they had, but still they're being respectful of it.
Speaker B: I like that mhm just that boost in post production, though, I feel like the coloring is different. Feels so much more vibrant.
Speaker D: Uh, you can see more textures of things too, I feel like.
Speaker B: Yeah, and the editing feels tighter and it seems like the pacing is more tempered. It doesn't feel as chaotic and unintentionally, uh, camp as season, uh, one. This feels like an actual TV show instead of like a dream of a TV show.
Speaker A: Right? Yeah. Without further ado, should we just start talking about the episode? All right, so this week we are talking about season two, episode one, The Kiss, which first aired on October the 7th of 1998, five months post the finale of season one. Well the synopsis of this week's episode is Dawson and Joey embark on a romance as Jennifer tries to cope with the loss of her grandfather. And this was written by the dynamic duo of Dawson's Creek which was uh, John Harmon Felman on writing and directed by David Semel. These two I feel like if I can remember from our season one wrap up, they were pretty much the most featured people in the production crew and fittingly enough, they're the first people in the door. Um, I did see it was produced by Dana Barrada as well. So yet another returning face, not surprising to see. And um, this episode has just about everything. We've got our first new character mere moments into season two. We've got sunrise haircuts for just about everybody on the cast and we've also got twisting words into some very salty little word pretzels. So I love this episode. What did you guys think?
Speaker B: Yeah, I mean this is a pretty strong start. Uh, my only criticism other than the obvious things of Dawson's Creek that kind of like hamper it, but is, uh, Jen once again feels like a character that's not really moving anywhere. Uh, you have Michelle Williams who like I've said a million times before, is such an incredible actor. Um, just watch Manchester by the Sea if you just want to see just like an incredible performance. She's so fucking good. And in this it's just like they know she's good at crying. So that's the only thing we're going to do. We're just going to have her, uh, weep and be sad and that's such a waste of such an amazing actor. Um, but aside from that, um, we get, uh, the new character of Andy, which, uh, I thought, personally was a great foil to Pacey's antics. And, um, very much reminded me of the Rosa Brooklyn Nine meme, where, uh, I've only had this thing for an hour and a half or whatever, but I would kill, um, everyone in myself to protect her. It's just like, I love Andy. She's so good. I'm so stoked. Abby Morgan, who gives a shit? I love Andy now. Um, and also, uh, I was in love with Ali Larter as a child. I don't know about you guys, uh, but she's like such a 90s queen. Like final destination varsity blues house in Honda Hill. Um, loves seeing her in this. So yeah, I'm pumped on this.
Speaker A: Interesting. I was wondering why she looked familiar. Okay, cool.
Speaker D: In the 90s.
Speaker B: Legally Blonde Heroes Season One I feel.
Speaker A: Like we talk about Final Destination a surprising amount. It's got to have come up several times at this point.
Speaker C: So yeah, I uh, enjoyed this episode quite a bit. I'm really excited for more, just in general. I want more Pacey and more Jen. Um I don't know. I've asked this before and have wondered how much were people really wanting this Dawson and Joey relationship. But I just feel like I don't care, I'm over it. I want to see other relationships and stories for all these people. But yeah, it's probably going to go on and off for a while. Dawson and Joey and I just have to get over that.
Speaker D: Yeah, I had kind of a similar feeling. I'm already tired of this beyond friendship relationship between them.
Speaker A: Yeah, it doesn't help that they really leaned heavily into, I think, the relatable aspect of teenage relationships where you're just like, oh, you said that so you must not like me. Okay, you don't like me. Constantly blowing everything way out of proportion. But they did that way too much in this episode. Um, so that was my biggest criticism is like, yes, we took all of these big leaps forward with the production quality. Feels like it's written better, it's shot better, um, it seems directed better as well. Like the performances feel a lot more authentic instead of just like Joey rolling her eyes constantly. But then at the same time we're still doing the exact same shit, which is like annoying teenage antics that are beaten way over the head over and over and over again. Maybe it's just the postmodernism, we've seen it all, but I don't know, I was like, damn, can we get away from this?
Speaker B: Also that kind of reminds me because the season one was like a mid season greenlit. Like they really had to rush everything. So I wonder if that's it too. It's like, uh, first season was rushed. They probably only did like one take of everything. It was like, fuck it, we got to move on. But, uh, now with season two, it's like maybe they had a little time to actually prepare stuff. I mean, all the shots feel like way better blocked this episode and it seems like, uh, there's more thought going into everything.
Speaker A: I have a thought on that that I want to oh, sorry, is it the same thing you're going to say? I have a thought on them getting to take multiple takes of something and being a little bit more rehearsed. I'll introduce it's going to be an act three, maybe even act four. So I'll put a pin in that.
Speaker D: I just wanted to mention one of my favorite things about the episode was how they dealt with different hairstyles in the episode. So we had of course, the frosted tips in Pacey, which apparently he was filming some other shows or movies at the time and that's where that came from. Um, and then of course, Jen has this like, hide a haircut thing that they're trying to hide. It's like obviously very short. Um, and then Joey, I think Joey was the only one that her hair grew a little bit. So that was kind of fun.
Speaker A: And then, yeah, Dawson's weird hair, it's.
Speaker D: Like, he's like a tiny trim. You can tell it was trimmed but.
Speaker A: It looks a lot better than household. It a little yeah, it does look a lot better. It's not just like helmet hair, it's kind of like mhm. Yeah, everybody looks so grown up. Look at our children. Oh my God, they're ten years older than us.
Speaker B: Yeah, but there are kids now they look, ah, 35 instead of 40.
Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker D: Oh, I was, I did want to talk about the number one song during the time and, and also okay, so the number one song when the episode released was First Night by Monica on her, on her The Boys Mine album.
Speaker B: Right.
Speaker D: So in the five months of this break three of those five months, uh, Brandy and Monica's Boy is Mine song was number one for the majority of this break. Which is funny because the Boy is Mine about they're fighting between interesting.
Speaker B: There was something in the water in 1998 starting immediately where we last left our heroes. Dawson and Joey are kissing in Dawson's room. Joey emotes trepidation, but Dawson gives her another longing smooch to wash away any regrets. The next day, Bessie squeezes the deeds out of Joey over what went down that previous night, just as Pacey does with Dawson while they get their hair done. Ah, at seven in the morning before school, feeling inspired by Dawson's machismo, pacey requests some frosted tips and proclaims his intentions to woo senior cheerleader Christy Livingston. Later, when Pacey tries to impress Christie from his brother's cop car, he accidentally collides with a young woman named Andy McPhee. Believing Pacey to be an actual cop, she pleads for his forgiveness and after a brief interrogation, lets her leave. At school, Joey reveals that she has decided to bail on her opportunity to go to study abroad in France, choosing to stay with Dawson over the summer as she's still apprehensive over this new relationship, dawson attempts to woo her by inviting her on a date at the Rialto's final screening that coming Saturday night. As if parachuting in from the ether, Jen pops in to let everyone know that her grandfather has passed away and lets them know that she's leaving school that day to mourn. Dawson goes after her to provide emotional support and Joey is left to agonize by the lockers. And lest we forget Mitch and Gail who are seen still picking up the pieces of their rocked marriage from last season, with Mitch not falling for Gail's morning attempts at seduction.
Speaker A: So you all may have noticed we have a slightly new approach to our show. We're going to be summarizing the full act and then diving into the scenes in a more conversational style. So that was multiple scenes there but man, the first act of the show sets up the season quite well. I feel like the things that I thought were interesting, uh, obviously, uh, like I talked about the immature talk that this whole first act is just filled with on all sides. Right. We've got Joey and Dawson who are just bickering about everything and twisting each other's words no matter what. We've got Mitch and Gail who cannot seem to talk about anything meaningful. Right. They're just like avoiding each other. She's just trying to seduce him and he's trying to do anything he can to get away. Um, and like, uh, even Bessie and Joey, uh, Dawson and Pacey, everybody is just talking around things. I feel like that really sets up probably what we're going to see a lot of this season is like, everybody's trying to figure out how to communicate.
Speaker C: Uh, I was pretty surprised, um, in the first scene that we see Dawson and Joey communicating extremely poorly and immaturely.
Speaker A: But that are you calling me immature?
Speaker D: Exactly.
Speaker C: It was rough. It was like, oh God, this is the same fucking, uh, shit. But then it immediately turns around and that Dawson became very confident and was able to pursue what he wanted right away. So it seemed like they had like, learned from their mistakes almost pretty quickly. So I was like, oh, this is a nice change. So that gave me some hope, right?
Speaker B: Yeah. I was about to jump out of that window with her when she was running. He was like, if he lets her go and we just keep this going but then he, uh, grabs her in the wetland. It almost feels like a parody of season one, right. If we were to actually let that happen.
Speaker D: Definitely.
Speaker A: Yeah. It's almost like they're being like, remember when we were like this? Well, we're not like that anymore. Watch us kiss.
Speaker B: Can you do that again? That was actually an audio clip you just pulled.
Speaker A: That was a clip from them kissing. Uh, speaking of audio clips, I didn't capture this, but I love that we immediately get the song Say Goodnight by Beth Nielsen Chapman and I feel like that is setting up what we see played out through the rest of this episode and I'm hoping through the rest of the season. But good music that is recognizable and familiar. Yeah, it's not like, I mean, also a good amount of weird scoring that they have done themselves just like in season one with weird blues and guitar stuff that feels like it should be.
Speaker B: In Firefly when they're doing the cross, uh, cutting between Bethy and Joey and, uh, Dawson and Pacey getting their hair done. Uh, it's like, first starts with that like and then it turns like into more like bluesy kind of stuff.
Speaker D: There were a few scenes where they have that in this episode.
Speaker A: Oh yeah, it's a theme that they return to quite a bit. And I actually would like to introduce it's. Uh, going to be the sequel to Hamilton. It's going to be the next big musical to hit Broadway and um, I think you're really going to like it. Here's the first intro to the first song.
Speaker B: Okay.
Speaker D: Wait a second. Where were you last night? Nowhere. Start talking.
Speaker B: I knew there was a reason he got me up this morning. Set the stage.
Speaker A: I want details. Um, well, it's hard to explain. It was, in a word, hot.
Speaker D: Extremely hot.
Speaker C: This does remind me of Greece, right?
Speaker D: Oh, yeah. They were going to break out into song.
Speaker A: Oh. Whoops. It's, like, at any moment.
Speaker D: And it's the contrast of, like, the girls and the guys, which on that note, I like that they have the girls changing a flat and the guys are in the salon. Think it would be typically someone might write the opposite, where the girls are in the salon chatting and the guys are doing manly tire. But it was switched.
Speaker B: Oh, my. We'll talk about it later. But I feel like there's so many good parallels in this episode between characters that are kind of like it's, uh, playing off of each other. And another thing that I was thinking about with the gender swap of things is, uh, in that morning, uh, it's Gail, the one that's trying to seduce Mitch. She's trying to solve her relationship with sex, which is I feel like normally you would think of that as like, the guy is just like, well, uh, we'll just have sex, and that will make things better.
Speaker C: I feel like Cody talks to me.
Speaker B: Yeah, that is that's actually my a lot of listeners who, uh, listen to the show like, Cody, you change your voice for the show because we all know you for a big, dumb voice like this. This is how I usually talk to once you hear that. Uh, but I do like that gender swap. I feel, like, pointed. That's good.
Speaker A: Yeah, I didn't notice that, but that's a good point. That's really cool. And I just I mean, I was just blown away by the sunrise haircuts that not only is it Dawson and Pacey in there getting their haircut, but there's also another student in there getting their haircut.
Speaker D: Christie, like, the high school spot to get their haircut. Uh, it's, uh, got to be, like, 07:00 A.m.. It's got to have to be, yeah.
Speaker B: What time does school start for you?
Speaker A: In high school, it was 750. Was first.
Speaker C: Uh, yeah, it's like nine for me.
Speaker A: But really big flag.
Speaker B: Private school over here.
Speaker A: I was missed homecoming queen in my school.
Speaker B: 09:00 A.m. For me, it was 725. So if I were to get my hair down to be, like, 536.
Speaker A: Yeah. And if you had to get your tips frosted my dad's.
Speaker D: Yeah, that's true. It takes a while.
Speaker B: Also, one thing with, uh, Gail trying to seduce Mitch, she's about to blow him. And she says this line she says this act plays underwater, too, when she's, like, moving down. Is she playing to his interest in making a water themed restaurant?
Speaker D: That's what I thought.
Speaker A: The kelp. Wow. Yeah.
Speaker B: Surprise. Didn't work.
Speaker A: Uh, he underwater. I think it's oh yeah, he's turned into a Ken doll and his peepee has gone away.
Speaker C: Also, I was like pretty surprised how built he was.
Speaker A: He looks like super huge.
Speaker C: He was ripped.
Speaker D: Um, can we talk about the new intro?
Speaker A: Oh my god, yes. We have to.
Speaker D: I want to know what everyone's favorite part of the new intro is.
Speaker A: I like the part where Pacey reaches out to Joey like he did in season one's intro where he goes before the bow, but instead of doing a bow, he falls backwards because he's a funny guy.
Speaker B: I agree.
Speaker A: Very funny.
Speaker B: I love that he's keeping that theme. I hope every season he just has an, um, iteration of that dramatic.
Speaker D: Ah, it's kind of like how he was rejected by Joey. Ah, always.
Speaker B: Um, I really like that in season one this footage was done, it looked like 16 mm. So it was like film. But this one is straight ah, to video. It's VHS footage. So it feels like more of like, um because I can't imagine a 15 year old actually having a film camera to shoot something really expensive. It would make more sense for him to shoot straight to tape.
Speaker D: Totally.
Speaker B: So it feels more natural for Dawson's world to have something that's like VHS them. Like filming a little beach getaway. But it also makes it look like a Dogma 95 movie from the 90s where ah, it's like Lars Von Trier and it's very scary.
Speaker A: Um, yes.
Speaker B: Like Michael Henneka's benny's video or something. It creeps me out whenever I watch.
Speaker A: It feels very of the time, which is also good instead of this weird 60 millimeter throwback like you're saying. Right. Doesn't feel like it's from the 90s.
Speaker B: Also, I wonder if that's also because film grain makes everything so much more warmer. And um, VHS is, uh, very cold and distant kind of texture to an image. So I'm wondering if they're trying to make a point of season two. Like these characters might drift apart. I don't know if it's going to say anything more other than being more just like trying to be realistic to what it might be like to be a kid and you're filming a little getaway each day. I don't know.
Speaker D: Totally.
Speaker C: I don't know. I'm sorry. I don't have it memorized in my head yet.
Speaker D: We can circle back next time.
Speaker C: Thank you.
Speaker D: So my favorite part is where Pacey and Joy are like shimming together shoulders. They're like on some dock pole or something and they're just like yeah, I love that. And also, of course, when Joey has her arms open with the song that's sitting and she has a two on her shirt.
Speaker A: Season two had to be intentional. Yeah. Um, well, let's talk about, uh, in school when Dawson and Joey see each other after they slept on it. Um, one at first, was anybody else confused I thought that Pacey sorry, Joey. I thought that Joey slept over at Dawson's house. So I was really confused when they weren't in the same bed, we see the montage of them all waking up and stuff. At first I was like, is this like a pull out couch somewhere in Dawson's house? But no, it's at Joey's house. Of course.
Speaker D: I think it is a pull out couch.
Speaker A: It definitely seems like it. Um, but then they get to school and they're just so just like cheesing so hard, just staring at each other.
Speaker B: Like they're love drunk hi. They didn't sleep together because she says that line, like, let's sleep on it.
Speaker A: Not together. But I don't know. Yeah.
Speaker B: Love that montage, though, of them waking up and smiling. That the fastball. Was I out of my head? Was that on my mind?
Speaker A: What a song.
Speaker C: Uh, also we have Andy. Oh, my God, what a great introduction.
Speaker B: So her introduction sequence with Pacey with the car is, uh, what is his plan? Because he has said earlier that he wants to go with Christy Livingston. Is he going to pretend to be a cop? Does he want to look cool because he's in the cop car?
Speaker D: That's my why did he wait till she is like up the street? She walks right by his car window and he waits, uh, up next to her. I don't know. It was very confusing.
Speaker C: And also, does his family know that he's driving around in a cop car?
Speaker A: No.
Speaker B: He later says that, doesn't he? Where he's like.
Speaker A: Well, he definitely says something about my dad's going to kill me. But that's after he gets hit. But presumably it's because they don't know he took it.
Speaker D: I'm sure, yeah. Based on how it seems like his family treats him. They wouldn't let him but beg the.
Speaker A: Question, what was he expecting to happen here? Because in, uh, either interaction on the street there, right when Christie walks by, he's like, Christie. And then he tries to pull out, what does he expect to happen here? But then also when Andy hits his car, he's like, I'm going to take away your license right now. Let's say that he does that. How does that help the situation that he just got hit in? How is that going to help him explain the fact that his car was just T boned?
Speaker D: Yeah.
Speaker A: How's it going to help him get out of trouble? I just don't understand what the process was.
Speaker D: I think in that moment, he was just like you could see a switch where he was like, oh, I'm totally going to play with this girl because she thinks I'm a cop.
Speaker A: Yeah. But I have a very important question here. For this scene where we're talking about them on the street, the introduction of Andy, we get to see Pacey in his final form. He's got frosted tips and a bowling shirt on and those aviators, you could fit three people in those pants and they'd still have room.
Speaker D: How low can you say?
Speaker A: Yeah, but I need to ask you, Cody, how conflicted did you feel when your favorite band in the entire world, Fish, was used not only in an episode of Dawson's Creek, but in a scene with Pacey pretending to be a cop?
Speaker C: What a great question.
Speaker B: First, uh, off, acab. Uh, second of all, uh, here's the thing.
Speaker A: Okay?
Speaker B: So, uh, this episode comes out in October of 1998. Earlier that year, uh, in April, fish, uh, did a four night string of shows called, um, people called Island Tour. Uh, and this is like people say it's the gold standard of late 90s fish. Uh, this is where they did two shows in Staten Island and then two in Rhode Island.
Speaker A: Everybody got a bull cut.
Speaker B: Everyone got a bull cut. Um, but here's the thing. So when they're in Providence, Rhode Island, they do birds of a feather and earlier, James and I, we were talking about this song, and this is a song usually they don't really jam too hard on it. Uh, it's usually like a type one jam. They just kind of play along with, uh, what the basic structure of the song is. But on the April 4 show, they did, like, a big monster jam on it. It's like a 15 minutes one. It's sick as hell. If anyone's trying to get to Fish, check out Island Tour. Uh, but I thought it was pointed that that was at a Rhode Island show. And when he asks for her driver's license, it's a Rhode Island driver's license.
Speaker A: Good connection. Totally.
Speaker B: So I'm wondering, is there someone in a part of the Dawson's Creek production that is also super in a fish, or there's a head in general for jam music? And, uh, they wanted to tie that together because it was like, almost immediately after Island Tour, everyone was like, oh, this is like, the crowning achievement of recent Fish outings.
Speaker C: Do you think Mike White is a fish head?
Speaker B: Absolutely not. Mike White's cool, so he does not like fish. Only people that look like me like fish.
Speaker C: What do they call fish fans?
Speaker B: Uh, they call them fans PH.
Speaker D: Oh, right off.
Speaker A: Of course they do.
Speaker B: Uh, for those that can't see stuff.
Speaker D: Vomiting in the corner, mick Fee has a PH in her name.
Speaker B: She certainly does.
Speaker A: I bet if you looked at her birth certificate, it's an F.
Speaker B: But it's a weird song choice, though, because that song is more of, like, the relationship of an artist to their fans. And it's kind of like making fun of fans for being, um well, if you've ever seen a Fish fan, you would make fun of them, too. So, uh, I don't really know why that was a choice, but hearing Fish in the show made me laugh out loud.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: So I'm pretty stoked.
Speaker C: It was pretty unreal like. So we watched this. Episode, I think. Yeah, right away after we recorded the finale for season one. And I just remember watching that and the notes of fish lighting up Cody's.
Speaker A: Eyes, tears streaming down his face.
Speaker B: I just like that cold place more. Uh, importantly, these characters, uh oh, sorry.
Speaker A: Oh.
Speaker B: I just really like the idea when Paisie is, uh, giving her shit about what could have possibly happened, and he's like, you could have run over a cat, a junk, or a nun.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: What a jump.
Speaker A: Yeah. Cute.
Speaker D: Um, does anyone want to guess how old so the actress who plays Andy, meredith Monroe. Did anyone look up how old she is?
Speaker A: Meredith Monroe.
Speaker D: Meredith Monroe. Not to be Marilyn. Yeah, not to be. Um, so guesses, just guess.
Speaker B: Um, I'm going to say 28. He looks like an older young person.
Speaker A: Yeah. I'm going to say 36. Wow. God, I'm going to go for a crazy one.
Speaker D: That would be me. 36. I'm glad I look, uh, that young.
Speaker A: I don't know. I'm staying honest. Okay.
Speaker B: I would have thought you're seven people.
Speaker D: Yeah.
Speaker C: I can't believe that you're 36. That's wild.
Speaker D: You're in 37.
Speaker C: No.
Speaker D: Couple of weeks.
Speaker C: That's wild.
Speaker A: She looks 14.
Speaker C: She looks 14.
Speaker B: Okay.
Speaker C: My guess is that she is 33.
Speaker A: Cody, you win.
Speaker B: 28.
Speaker D: 28.
Speaker A: Hello. Yeah.
Speaker D: 28 years old, I think so far. She's the oldest in the crew of high schoolers.
Speaker A: They're sophomores. Yes, that's 15.
Speaker B: Um, Jen says she's 16 in this episode.
Speaker A: Right.
Speaker D: And, um, yeah, they're around, like 19 to 2021. The core group, I think. Yeah.
Speaker B: So who would ever believe 15 year old Pacey's a cop?
Speaker D: I know, right?
Speaker C: One, he's dressed absurdly.
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker B: He's a bowling clown.
Speaker C: What fucking cop is driving around in a bowling shirt and yeah, I just couldn't believe that she completely thought that he right. Yeah.
Speaker D: It's like she didn't notice what he was wearing, just that he probably dad's a cop. So he knows the demeanor and he kind of shows that.
Speaker A: I think you can see the moment where he actually does that because she says something like, oh, my god, I'm so sorry, officer. And Pacey does this look around where he's like, she actually thinks I'm the cop.
Speaker D: Right?
Speaker A: I'm the officer. And then he kind of like, puffs his that's what I was talking about. About the direction was better because I think in season one, that little interaction may have been completely missed. Um, but yeah, I thought that his performance as a cop is so laughable. If that's what happened, I would have been like, wait, maybe we should call the police. Maybe we should get an officer here. I think you need backup.
Speaker B: Uh, just another thing, too, is, um, Andy for the rest of the episode, is shown to be very witty and silly and fun and with it and smart. And so it's hard for me to believe that her introduction to this is her falling for, uh, a tiny little bowling clown, uh, to be a police officer.
Speaker A: Yeah. She is so capable, as she demonstrates later, that it's like, how did you fall for this now?
Speaker B: But to be fair, I'm also so deathly afraid of cops that if I got pulled over and if it was just legitimately, uh, Joshua Jackson as a 15 year old wearing aviators in the same outfit, I would just be like.
Speaker D: Yes, sir, she just got her license. So, yeah, nervous new in town.
Speaker A: I have to go back to Pacey, though, because he knows he goes to Capeside High. He realistically knows that Capeside has one high school. Maybe it has a private school. Maybe that's never been addressed. So, uh, anyway, he looks at her driver's license, sees that they're the same age and has to know I'm going to be seeing you at school later.
Speaker D: Do we think we're getting set up for a relationship between them horse?
Speaker A: Yeah, no doubt in my mind. Once we see them later shot with.
Speaker D: Christy and then there's Andy.
Speaker A: Oh, yeah, exactly.
Speaker B: We all, uh, play an armchair psychologist and try to diagnose Pacey because he's so impulsive. He's afraid to be himself. There's like all these interesting things about him, like, what makes him the way he is. Besides, obviously his family life is horrible and, uh, he's like, isolated in his friend group and all these other things. Um, but there's just like, what's going on with Pacey?
Speaker A: Too much fish.
Speaker B: Too much fish. There it is. That's all.
Speaker C: Um, real quick, before I know we previously just talked about the love, um, drunk interactions between Dawson and Joey, um, uh, fucking Dawson saying that he would be aroused. Does Joey say at first?
Speaker A: No, he says it first. I've got the clip right here.
Speaker D: If you are in the halt, like.
Speaker C: In the hall talking about and the fact that she didn't go to France.
Speaker A: We can talk about that. The biggest mistake of her life. I got that clip as well. But here, let's take a listen.
Speaker D: I think I might have made the biggest mistake of my life. She told Mr. Eller that I just wasn't going to go.
Speaker A: So, uh, Joy Potter's to go on Capeside for some guy.
Speaker C: Maybe you're lucky I'll introduce you to him sometime.
Speaker A: Okay. I hate his laugh. In that moment, he's like.
Speaker B: I think we all agreed that our experience with Dawson so far in the show is that he is a selfish, uh, prick. Uh, and his reaction to this is, ah, so one sided. Like, his reaction should have been like, wait, what? But instead he's like, yippee, it's. Have fun this summer.
Speaker A: And then to immediately be like, baby, I got a big boinger going on downtown. I'm aroused. Baby, I'll be aroused all week, don't worry. I just can't wait to fuck you in a movie theater.
Speaker B: Yes.
Speaker A: It's like, dude, whoa, chill the fuck out.
Speaker B: A lot of, like, weird. Not, uh, innuendo.
Speaker A: Innuendo.
Speaker B: Is supposed to be like, oh, you're going to, like, skate around it. But in this they're very much like, m, I have an erection. Like, wow. Wouldn't it be interesting if we acted like pornographic actors with stuff like this? It's just so direct.
Speaker A: Yeah. We are going to go to a hotel and fuck hard. Okay. Yeah. Ah.
Speaker B: Especially for a show that used to be so stylized with this dialogue that sound like a noir movie or something. You'd think?
Speaker A: I'm wondering what the purpose of this is. My guess is it's supposed to demonstrate just how, like young and naive and overly sexualized kids are in the 90s.
Speaker B: For sure.
Speaker A: Because these kids have no idea what a relationship is. But as soon as they are entering into one, they're like, yeah, now we can just talk about how horny we are fucking all the time. This is like the benefit we get. That's what they think a relationship is. Which makes sense for Dawson because that's what his parents do. But strange, I hated when Dawson leans into Joey's head and he's like, he's a very lucky guy. Are you going to kill me now? Why is there a knife against my neck, mr. Please leave me alone.
Speaker B: Very yucky.
Speaker A: Why does it smell like spoiled milky? He's a very yucky guy. He's very aroused. Paul?
Speaker C: No, thank you. Uh, well, and then at the end of the scene, we have Jen coming, uh, up, talking about dead Graham.
Speaker A: The moment where they're like, Jen, how are you? And she's like, bad.
Speaker D: At, uh, this point I forgot that no one else knows yet. That Grandpa. Yeah.
Speaker A: That's the moment when I was like, oh my God, this is all it's last night, everybody got their hair. Grants just died. Everything has happened in less than 24 hours. What? This is the busiest day in all of Capeside. Like, their entire history has been like, well, there was a boat that arrived. Oh, yeah. Some high schoolers decided to make a movie and then a grandparents died and everybody got a haircut in the same day.
Speaker B: Again, earlier I said the Jen only exists for exposition in this episode. And her whole sequence here is such a dumb and dumber big Gulps, huh? All right, see you later. She's just like, hey, guys, well, Graham died. I don't want to be at school anymore.
Speaker A: Well, see you later.
Speaker B: I didn't even get a time, a second to think. What?
Speaker A: You fake disappointment? Why didn't she just call in to I mean, I know she says I thought I could make it, but clearly I couldn't. I feel like in the moment it's because she sees Dawson and Joey because they're literally about to kiss when they see her.
Speaker B: And later she does say, like, the thought of you together makes me sick.
Speaker A: Yeah. And at the end of season one, it ends with that long pole shot of them kissing in the window. And I remember thinking in the moment, is that what Jen is seeing? And now I'm wondering, I don't know how much she knew going into the day if she did actually see that. And then she I don't know. Poor, um, jen. She's off, uh, like a super tragic character.
Speaker B: Not even a character.
Speaker A: No.
Speaker B: Just like a cardboard cut out with a poll string. And all it says is, I'm depressed.
Speaker C: Yes, I do feel worried about her. I feel like she's on a very quick downward spiral. And by the end of this episode.
Speaker A: Yeah, there's some comments for her. Exactly. The pale end of the episode. They're just like, yikes. Wouldn't fly today, I don't think. But.
Speaker B: Well, no, we'd be remiss to not talk about one very specific mention in this episode. While they were getting their hair done, pacey says a little something about Will. They won't take characters and other TV shows. He mentions Sam and Diane from Cheers, but he very importantly says moulder and scoldes from the X Files. Do you think this has to do with the paranormal activity happening in Capex?
Speaker A: Yes. In fact, I have a new theory.
Speaker B: Oh, my gosh.
Speaker A: I've been doing a lot of research, and guys, look, I have to admit something. I don't think vampires actually exist. And I think the likelihood that Capeside is full of vampires is very slim. I've seen some documentation that has come to light, but I have another theory.
Speaker B: Oh, my gobbles.
Speaker A: Here. I think Capeside is actually just a bunch of clones because they're all white and they all look the same and they're all dressed the same. I think that this is some kind of weird science experiment gone wrong. And Dawson and Joey, they might just be a simulation, or maybe they're the only two real people and everybody else is a simulation. But I'm pretty sure that we're in some kind of weird, fabricated Truman Show type environment here.
Speaker B: I love the idea of clones.
Speaker A: Me too.
Speaker B: Yeah, it's like a never let me go thing. Or like Star Wars, Part Two.
Speaker A: Attack of the Clones also feels very in line with Moulder and Scully. This is like they're testing to see if they're sentient if they're aware. Let's drop in Moulder and Scully because they talk about clones and aliens in that show. If they realize that we're all clones and aliens, this will snap them out of it. But it doesn't. So we're continuing to dream in the Dawson's Creek land.
Speaker B: Uh, can we please do a chat Gbt prompt? Uh, Moulder and Scoley go to Capeside.
Speaker A: That is a really good idea.
Speaker B: Oh, my God. I would love to hear what they have to say.
Speaker A: Stay tuned for our next radio drama.
Speaker B: I can almost hear the dialogue on my head of schooly being like, I don't really understand Boulder. Everyone seems happy, everything's fine. And him being like, schooly, you didn't notice that everyone looks identical to each other?
Speaker A: You didn't notice that they all blink at the same time.
Speaker B: It makes a flapping sound similar to kissing.
Speaker A: Yeah, well, that's how they kiss. Okay, well, shall we take our very first break of season two?
Speaker B: Get me out of here.
Speaker A: Okay, well, we'll see you on the other side.
Speaker C: Go play in the snow.
Speaker A: Mhm.
Speaker B: At ah, Capeside High. And you realize this Pacey is just some um, doofy student and rightly accosts him over impersonating a cop. Pacey acts sassy until he realizes she has an in with Christie. Andy tells him she'll set them up and fulfills that promise later that day when she gives him the go ahead after he watches them talk outside and Christy agrees to a dinner date the next day. Jen mourns silently outside and Dawson approaches her with a hot steaming bowl of soup to cheer her up and encourages her to get out of the house. He's on his way to the Rialto and Jen makes it known that Graham's will be there too. Dawson admits he's going with Joey as a date, but also confirms that he's there for Jen as emotional support. Before he leaves, Jen gives him a longing embrace and goes, MMM. Meanwhile, Joey is still racking her brain over the weirdness of her relationship with Dawson, transitioning from a friendship to something more. And Bessie encourages her while also pumping up the importance of the second kiss elsewhere. Gail has arrived home late and promises to Mitch that it was because of work and not for allured affair with her co anchor, Bob. Although he tells her he believes her, he says he has a sudden appointment, has to leave. Later, we see him popping into the courthouse to meet with a divorce lawyer.
Speaker A: Wow, this, uh, is where the episode really hit its groove for me. I thought I got a belly laugh, uh, in that first scene when they're in the high school talking about things, talking about their frosted tips. Um, here, I got this clip. Let's take a listen. I genuinely can't tell you what this is. So we're about to find out. I don't remember what I recorded. What's? Here?
Speaker B: Yeah, she probably just didn't recognize me.
Speaker A: I just had my tips frosted.
Speaker C: Tips frosted.
Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. Okay. I just love the way Pacey delivered that light. I thought it was funny. It really gave me a good laugh. Let's listen to it one more time. Just listen to Pacey. He's so fucking funny.
Speaker B: Yeah, she probably just didn't recognize me.
Speaker A: He just had my tips frosted. I love it. It's so funny. He's a new man, he's got this confidence. I mean, fuck yeah, Pacey.
Speaker C: I also love that he's just talking to these two randos that we've never.
Speaker D: Seen before, bragging about his my note.
Speaker B: Is literally the only thing I run for the scene is who the fuck is Pace?
Speaker A: And I like that they're doing the generic. Like if we were two guys in a TV show talking to each other. We'd be like, yeah, man, that's the whole conversation that Pacey is having with these two random people.
Speaker B: What's the thing with the, uh, SAG is that, um, if you say a line of dialogue in a show, then they have to pay you like union dues. So they're just paid extra. They're not allowed to say anything.
Speaker D: Like the hair people too, when they were cutting, they didn't say anything. It was a similar thing where they're like there and doing something, but not really.
Speaker A: And you could see that moment really bad where when Pacey turns to his hairstyles and says, I want a new look. She clearly can't say anything, but she would if they're sort of real. What does she do? She's like, uh, rolls her head around, which is like, guess her way of acknowledging that, yes, something needs to happen. It's just so funny to me.
Speaker B: Uh, but back with the sequence. I feel like this is like the evidence that Andy, uh, is so quick just to be like, oh, so you want an end. So blah, blah, blah, blah. It's like 3D chess. She knows exactly what move that she's going to be doing in the future. I love that she just takes advantage.
Speaker D: Of that and Face follows hook, line, and synchrony. He's like, really? You actually think that she's going to set you up with Christy after what you did to her?
Speaker A: So bonker.
Speaker D: Like, what? So gullible.
Speaker A: He's a silly little boy. He's a silly guy. So when Jen gets home and Graham's is folding up all the clothes to go throw in the street and stomp on or whatever, something she's going to do, graham is like, how was school, honey? Does she not realize it's been like 45 minutes since lately?
Speaker D: She just got laughed.
Speaker B: I mean, I know her husband of 60 years has died, but she's just like, oh, hi, Jennifer.
Speaker A: How was cool today? It's 08:00.
Speaker B: A.m. Grand.
Speaker A: Your coffee is still hot.
Speaker B: Love how gleeful she is holding those clothes. Like, if I were, uh, to die today, tomorrow I feel Stella could not be more quick to jump into my closet and just start folding all of my metal band T shirts, get them out of the house.
Speaker A: Very true. Well, it seemed like Graham's was wearing one of Graham's shirt. And she's got like this kind of like blanket plaid shirt on, like a flannel shirt. And I thought, poor grams. Like, Jen is just sitting here ripping her apart, saying, how could you do this? And not even thinking that maybe Graham's is doing it because she helps.
Speaker D: A long time coming.
Speaker A: Well, like she said, it's a long time coming. But also, people grieve in different ways. Right? But not to Jen.
Speaker D: How could she?
Speaker A: How dare you? Graham's is a real cold hearted floozy. She just wants to get rid of Graham's stuff so she can go fuck random men in the movie. Theater.
Speaker B: I cannot believe Jen pulls that out later. What?
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Love Jen. But at the same time, just like, come on.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker C: I think we probably talked about this in the season one finale. Um, but it does feel quite surprising how much of the impact she's having from his death.
Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker B: Zero evidence of their relationship or why she cares.
Speaker A: Remember that time she cried into his chest scar?
Speaker B: Yes. That was wet.
Speaker A: So wet.
Speaker B: Uh, also, I really liked, uh, later on, when Pacey is watching Andy, uh, priming Christy up for their conversation. I love when Andy, like, passes him. Uh, she says, I got her primed. And he goes, okay, eat cement.
Speaker D: Yeah.
Speaker B: I love their interactions. Uh, there's just, like, something so much more special about them riffing on each other, uh, than anything else in the show. That gets me excited.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker D: And it's like, instantly they're riffing. It's like they already know. I don't know. You can tell there's chemistry already. They have great bear with them. Yeah.
Speaker A: Unfortunately, we get this out of Pacey, and it's just, like, right back to his old ways. Let's take a listen to this wonderful snippet of Beat poetry.
Speaker B: Once was a girl named Christie thought of her nude makes me misty m a night on the town will both go get down by the end of the day she let kiss me uh, Christy, she probably heard all of them. He was only, like, 10ft away.
Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, my God. Cringe the spot of her nude makes me misty why, Pacey? Why doesn't sad like, he's overcome by emotions.
Speaker D: Yeah.
Speaker A: Just thinking of her nude, how proud do you think these writers were of themselves to make that to write that poem? And then they must have been proud, because later on, they're like, let's have him read it again.
Speaker D: Let's have him whistle with it, too.
Speaker B: I mean, jokes on that's. What if we find out that, uh, he improvised?
Speaker A: Uh, I wouldn't be surprised. That seems like something Joshua Jackson would whip out.
Speaker D: Does anyone just like a dick. The zigzag headbands that Christie's wearing. Did you notice that?
Speaker C: I do remember those. I didn't notice that.
Speaker D: Were like yeah, and they kind of stretch. They have, like it's kind of like a comb, and you put it in. Those are very popular, but they really hurt.
Speaker C: I do remember that.
Speaker A: Go ahead, please, on the hair.
Speaker D: Well, I'm talking about hair. Gail's Beehive.
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Out of control.
Speaker D: Yeah.
Speaker B: Time to prep that right.
Speaker A: Yeah. Uh, earlier I was talking about how everybody in this in Act One, but, you know, throughout this episode, is talking around things. Like, this is a good example of that, when Mitch and Gail are talking to each other. Listen to this.
Speaker C: Uh, thank God, because I just don't.
Speaker D: Want you to ever have to worry again that the States are behind us.
Speaker A: You know that.
Speaker C: And I would just hate for one of those old suspicions to create that.
Speaker D: I'm dot, dot, dot.
Speaker A: Yeah, she can't even say that I'm cheating. Right? That I just didn't want you to think that I'm like, what? And then Mitch is immediately like, yeah, don't worry about it. Anyway, see you later. Like, I don't fucking care. Bye.
Speaker B: Do we think he already had I mean, it's, uh, been a while since I've gotten an official divorce. I forgot how long it takes to actually, that was a joke. You, uh, can laugh. Please clap. Please clap. But was he already planning on going to the courthouse that day? I feel like you'd have to get an appointment in advance, like weeks or maybe months ahead of time.
Speaker A: Ah.
Speaker D: Because there's two different points in this episode where he says he has an appointment. Right.
Speaker A: The first one earlier that morning, and then that.
Speaker D: Uh, you're saying, do you think previous episode he's been planning this?
Speaker B: Because it seems like a reaction to her being late. Right. That's how it came across.
Speaker D: Yeah.
Speaker A: I mean, I really can't tell. I feel like what we can see of Mitch up to this point is that he has been very distant and conflicted, at least is how I'm reading him. And maybe he made this appointment earlier in the day. And, uh, this is just but it seems like this is a surface level appointment because remember, at least what we know later in this episode, he's like, it was just the first one. So potentially this is just him going to get more information about what his options are. But I love speaking of what we're talking about, going to the divorce attorney. This is probably the greatest example of show Don't Tell, um, that has ever been written. Let's take a listen to this.
Speaker C: Drake with your spoon at home.
Speaker D: No, we specialize in divorce.
Speaker A: M. No, we specialize in divorce for unhappy people who hate their wives, at the very least.
Speaker B: I feel like if this sequence were to happen in season one, it would have been Mitch going into an office and the lawyer actually being like, hello, Mitch, it's me.
Speaker A: Remember?
Speaker B: I'm the divorce lawyer you talked to earlier today. Let's talk about your relationship with Gail and see if we can fix it up.
Speaker A: Is she still cheating on you with that guy Bob and his big horse Dick?
Speaker D: Yeah, that more of the effect of like, that's what Midge is doing. Okay. Uh, they've leveled up a little bit.
Speaker A: Now they're doing things a little bit more exciting because initially it's like, oh, is this a business meeting?
Speaker B: Finally taking out that loan.
Speaker A: Finally we're getting back to it. Yeah. And next we have Jen or Dawson going over to Jen's house to deliver.
Speaker D: This chicken cheese thing with way too many spices.
Speaker A: Ah, yeah. What do you guys think the spices are? I think it's just salt and pepper.
Speaker D: Well, Graham's is going to hate it because she likes bland food.
Speaker A: That's true.
Speaker B: I, um, mentioned that earlier. It uh, wasn't until like my third watch with Captions that I noticed that when they're hugging at the end of the sequence that she lets out a very subtle don't like that she is so thirsty, which is awesome.
Speaker D: I still like on that note. She tells him he looks spiffy, but he's literally wearing like the exact same m mouth that he wears every day.
Speaker A: Like biggest t shirt under the smallest M vesty is wow.
Speaker B: Jen's character okay is her whole thing with this situation with Dawson like is she just like is there something about her? Is she used to like getting whoever she wants? So now that Dawson is not interested in her, it's like doing something to her brain where she said well, I have to have Dawson now because he doesn't want me there's like some kind of like, chase because there's no evidence to me. There's no evidence for me to believe that she would want to be with them still. Mhm, especially after their breakup. She had all the validation in the world to end that relationship. Why is she romanticizing it now? Is it just because he's with Joey.
Speaker C: Or because she's lonely?
Speaker A: Grieving part of yeah, I think it's the grief combination. Maybe the grandpa died make me sad, me want companion boy next door. He's so dreaming.
Speaker B: Mostly poetic.
Speaker A: That's the way I break it.
Speaker D: Also, I think she's wearing a shirt from Dawson's closet. Uh, look at what she's wearing in that scene. It's like a waffle knit kind of boxy, long sleeve like way. It's like bigger so it looks like.
Speaker A: It'S from yeah, and after he shirts he's basically like, yeah, like, oh me, I got to leave. Stop touching me. Um, and he runs away as fast as he can after that. Way too long hug. And then what does she do? She like pulls the shirt up around.
Speaker B: And she's like yeah.
Speaker A: So I think it's definitely Dawson's shirt. She's broken in. She climbed up the window. She's like, dinky boy shirt smells almost grandpa.
Speaker D: Or is it grandpa shirt?
Speaker A: He's not stylish.
Speaker D: No right that's well, Dawson stylish extremely.
Speaker A: You saw he's such a spiffy guy.
Speaker C: I did um, not recognize the spot where Jen is.
Speaker D: Did anyone it's kind of a bench swing, um, right there on the creek. Uh, kind of.
Speaker A: It looks like one of those, uh, curbside eating things that restaurants have popped up on the Post COVID. Let's take over the parking strip with this weird little pallet with some chairs on it.
Speaker D: I think it's a swing.
Speaker B: It looks like a swing.
Speaker D: Yeah looked comfy.
Speaker C: Yeah. And this thing that we're talking about in the next one I thought were really, um, beautiful creek shots that made me really want to live there.
Speaker D: Yeah. Bessie's pep talk to Joey that they're kind of sitting on the dock.
Speaker A: I hate and love Bessie's outfit.
Speaker D: Patrick Tank. Tank also in the Trex scene, she's wearing a Patrick skirt and I really want to see her wearing both of those together.
Speaker A: Her hair is headed amazing. Uh, this like weird mullet thing that she's got with the very long sideburns.
Speaker B: Everyone looks like a clown in this episode.
Speaker A: It's very funny, but they're giving her a new look for sure. M, the only thing I can think of is bohemian is what they're really pushing her into this like free load and hippie.
Speaker D: Definitely leaning in on that with Bessie for sure.
Speaker C: Wonder if her baby's still alive.
Speaker A: Jerome, what was his name?
Speaker B: Alexander.
Speaker D: Alexander.
Speaker C: Um, I did really love this moment between Joey and Bessie. I thought it was very cute.
Speaker D: Very cute moment between sisters.
Speaker A: It's nice to see that after next to no real interaction.
Speaker C: Yeah, but also earlier in the episode when she's like, so what are you going to do?
Speaker D: This is the first time and we've seen them act more like sisters versus Bessie being the mom to Joey kind of.
Speaker A: Um, do you guys want to hear Bessie's fantastic advice about the second kiss? Uh huh. Everybody at home, I just want you if you just had your first kiss, just think about this, okay?
Speaker D: And that first kiss, it's a passionate one. Someone filled by desire and attraction and all of that. But the second kiss is rational. You got time to think about it, worry and overanalyze. Most women, they prefer that first kiss, but I'm partial to the second.
Speaker A: One. Sounds like Twin Peaks music underneath that, uh, Laura Palmer is about to wash up on the creek behind him. Like I'm dead.
Speaker B: Uh, Diane, that loon sound effect gets everything. We're the fucking boaty.
Speaker A: He's still working two, uh, towns over, just stuck in traffic. They're hoping that we just forget about the one and only black character in this entire fucking town.
Speaker D: He's in the bathroom still.
Speaker B: Is that the last time he's been mentioned? He's like getting ready for the day in the bathroom?
Speaker A: Yeah, I wonder when or if. I know they replaced the actor with somebody else. We looked that up in season one. Um, but I wonder when he comes back. I can't remember if it was season two or anything. So strange.
Speaker C: What if fun theory. In the bathroom he found a secret door that leads to Narnia.
Speaker A: Oh my God. Wait a second. What if what if he has a clone in Narnia, is conducting the experiment, which is why he becomes back as somebody else. Because, um, he's a scientist. He went to the bathroom, went down the toilet. Like in X Files with the guy who goes into the soup yes, and eats people's organs or whatever. But this guy, Bodie, he doesn't do that. He just goes in there. And then some other guy comes in and he's like, yeah, I'm Bodie, here, eat my wet noodle. And gives him a spoonful of something to eat. But that's the. Drugs. That everybody. I got this. Okay, this is all coming.
Speaker B: Together, um, for you, Jennifer.
Speaker D: Thank you.
Speaker C: I was thinking about how I was just enjoying this episode the, um, amount of times Graham says Jennifer and how it always sounds exactly the same as a status.
Speaker B: You count them.
Speaker A: I'm a data driven person in my professional life. I am an analyst. And, uh, so I decided I was just curious because it sure seemed like the only word out of Graham's mouth was Jennifer this episode. So I found the teleplay for season two, episode one, and I counted Graham's lines. Oh my God, she has twelve lines in this entire play. How many times do you think she says Jennifer in those twelve lines? Six.
Speaker B: Every single time. Are you saying like every single block dialogue blocks that she gets?
Speaker A: How many mentions?
Speaker B: Yeah, I'm going to say there's a Jennifer.
Speaker A: Each one it is six of twelve lines are either entirely her just saying Jennifer or her saying something and then Jennifer, Jennifer.
Speaker B: So would it like read the script as a read like Graham's Jennifer, and then there's an actor line that says she goes over to closer to and.
Speaker A: Then Jen responds, yes.
Speaker B: Pretty cool. I love that. Also, no one in the show calls her Jennifer except for Grams.
Speaker A: HM.
Speaker B: Which maybe you think is the HBO Max episode description written by Graham because it says Jennifer. And in this episode, you'll see Jennifer.
Speaker A: Gets up to some good jigs. You'll see my lovely angelic granddaughter Jennifer, who can do no wrong except with the neighbor boy Darson and his pesky little pecker. You mean it's thing in the jig of Mag?
Speaker B: Uh, he's a route. Uh, we should rewrite every single HBO.
Speaker A: Synopsis as if we were Graham. Okay, so maybe this is actually all Graham's simulation. She can't have grandkids. So this is how she has grandkids.
Speaker B: Or yes. Or this is god, this is so fun to think about. Jennifer had her New York past, uh, which we know vaguely like some she experienced some like bad stuff. Right, but she was walking, but she's swinging here. Uh, what if this is a simulation that Graham has put her in? Don't worry about the simulation because it's like her punishment.
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker B: Uh, for being a new party girl. And it's like yes. It's like, now I'm going to throw you into a Norman Rockwell painting.
Speaker A: You meet the boy next door, you don't think he's actually all that, but then he leaves you and now you want him like nothing you've ever wanted before and you moan into his shoulder, become a good Christian girl, Jennifer. Well, speaking of becoming good Christians, should we all take a break and go to church? Yes. Okay. Take me to church. Take me to church.
Speaker B: Worship like a frog.
Speaker A: We'll see you on the other side.
Speaker B: Ribbon Dawson, riding his mighty steed of a speedboat through his titular creek, arrives at Joey's to pick her up for their date. An awkward sexual tension arises, made more intense with Joey's lip biting and jokes about fucking before it's quelled by Dawson taking her hand to leave. The sexy flirtation continues at the Rialto until the lights go down where they settle for holding hands. Later, Jen arrives to the theater and pops a squat next to Dawson telling him she took his advice from earlier to get out of the house. Joey's visible discomfort leads to Jen letting herself out and Dawson going after her, leaving Joey to her lonesome. In the lobby, Jen confronts Dawson over the dissolving of their own romantic relationship and his new one, with Joey wondering aloud if she was just a stepping stone to their inevitability. When Dawson tries to comfort her, she tells him that his words feel hollow and that the sight of him with Joey makes her ill before leaving in tears. When Dawson goes back to the theater, he finds that Joey has left. Elsewhere, Pacey waits anxiously in a park for Christie to show up for their.
Speaker A: Date. Oh.
Speaker B: Boy. The shot of Dawson on that boat is unreal and also the parallel editing of her getting ready with Dawson and his hair is blowing in his wind. He could not be going faster on that tiny little creek.
Speaker C: I feel like I was thinking about this when I was going to sleep last night and I had something to say about it and I can't really remember. Maybe it was just like the idea of Dawson picking her up on the date on a boat I thought was funny.
Speaker D: But it's not a robot, it's like a fancier, it's a speedboat.
Speaker A: This episode to me has a very strong theme of classism throughout the entire thing. Right. Because the country club comments the gutter scum. That's what Andy calls pacey. Later. Um, and what we know about Joey and Dawson. Right. Joey has a rowboat. That's how she gets around. Now Dawson, when we see him navigating the creeks, he's got a, um, power boats. I mean, not power boat, but at least a motorized boat. He, um, also lives in the very fancy house. She lives in the kind of run down house. So we're kind of seeing the tale the haves and the have nots sometimes being very eloquently expressed and sometimes very bluntly. This feels like an example of the bluntly explained side of things. But yeah, I mean, him driving around on that boat made me laugh so hard because I feel like you can see that he has probably not driven a lot of boats on the water before and he kind of looks scared driving it at some point where he's like, I hope this fucking thing. It makes me laugh every time I saw that.
Speaker B: I don't want to admit this, but there's like something inside me that felt kind of charmed by Dawson when he got off that boat and handed her that foliage from her own garden.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: I was like, Is this cute?
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Is this nice?
Speaker D: I don't know. He gave her a yellow flower, which yellow flowers signify friendship. He could have picked a red flower from her garden. There were lots of colors. He gave her the yellow one.
Speaker B: This is good research. I like it.
Speaker C: Um, I liked watching Joey get ready and I thought she looked cute.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker D: I feel like this is the most makeup we've seen her in so far. At least she can do her makeup perfectly.
Speaker A: Right. We see her go through a couple of different looks. She's got her hair up, got her hair down. I thought that was kind of fun to see her doing all of that and then, you know, cut inner splice with cuts of Dawson looking like a doofus on the water.
Speaker C: I do. I mean, we only saw, like, a couple outfits from Joey, but I did feel and I mean, the first one was pretty casual. She just has, like, a little tank the getty strap. Yeah. Shorts or something.
Speaker D: Um, which is funny because it's like, what season they were in kind of summery clothes in this episode.
Speaker C: Yeah, I was wondering about that, but I feel like that was it's not even, like, a quote unquote girly outfit, but I feel like she usually dresses more tomboy e. And every time we saw her, I thought she was looking, like, more feminine and cute.
Speaker D: Yeah, she was wearing it for the date. She had a layered, um, tan knitted tank top with something underneath those layers.
Speaker A: She used to have a lot wear a lot. To your point still. Uh uh. She was wearing a lot of, like, either straight up gender bent clothing or she was wearing things that really hid her just, like, buried her body under it. I feel like what we saw her in this entire episode was a lot of shapely clothing. She's wearing a tank top. She's wearing clothes that are not hiding her curves and body anymore, but actually not, like, showing it off. But it doesn't feel like no, but.
Speaker D: Instead of a T shirt, it's like a pink up. So it shows kind of more of her shoulders or her neck.
Speaker A: They are dressing her more in this kind of, like, I don't know, confident way. Maybe that's what we're supposed to feel.
Speaker B: Anyway. I wonder if this is supposed to be more based on the creative team wanting to get away from her character being Tom Boyish and there's, like, let's just let that die in season one. Or if it's, like, the grocer thing of this is obviously a network run by men, uh, in the 90s. Or they just like, oh, we need to make her sexy at all times. Make her wear, like, shapely clothing. Um, because that's what every network did in the 90s. They're like, all women are objects and they have to look hot at all times they're not going to write a character. Not, uh, wear heavy makeup and sexy clothes.
Speaker D: Also, she just did the beauty contest that was kind of different for her. And so maybe it's part of her character where now she wants to dress more like yeah.
Speaker C: Ah, um, that she just had this case with Dawson so now she's feeling like more feminine or I think that's.
Speaker A: Definitely part of it.
Speaker B: I'm just so cynical because all I can think about is star. Ah trek Voyager with Seven of Nine. The showrunners forced her to wear a cat suit for four seasons. And same thing with Troy on TNG. They're just like, oh, you have to like, everyone else is wearing their normal Star Fleet outfits and then Troy is wearing this bodysuit that accentuates her, uh, tits. It's disgusting. So I was like, I don't know, cynical me is like, oh, every studio head is, uh, a gross asshole.
Speaker A: Probably true. Yeah.
Speaker B: Not mutually.
Speaker A: Exclusive. Well, yeah. So while they're talking, Joey and Dawson or they're talking around each other, literally they're circling each other while they're doing this. And they just keep going back and forth. This is where they say the line about at uh, least I don't have to worry about the end of the day. Will she kiss me? And then she's like, well yeah, but now you got to worry about whether or not we're going to go to a hotel and screw like porn stars or whatever. So weird. It's just so strange. I don't really get it. I do get it, I guess. But at the same time I just really didn't like really didn't like it. Um I don't know. But what do you guys think we're supposed to be getting out of that? Because Dawson, uh, is eventually the one who's like, hey, hold on. Let's stop talking like we're trying to have sex and instead I want to hold your hand. Ah. Oh. Would you accept this flower milady? Like it feels like we're trying to set up this white knight Dawson kind of thing. Is that what you guys read as well?
Speaker B: I think so. And I think also, uh, I do like this. I mean, obviously the sexualization of Joey is the thing that we're just talking about. But also at the same time she has a lot of sexual agency. I do like the fact that she's had a crush on Dawson for basically her entire life. So now that they're in a relationship, she's not playing around with the fact that she wants to go to Bonetown. Yeah. Um, so she's fair to make the Joe. I also loved the typically I don't like camera work that's just constantly moving. And they were doing like the Michael Bay thing just like, uh, spinning around. And uh, I felt like that really built the tension with them while they're getting closer and closer. Closer and closer. Um, yeah. It's so interesting that he's now koi.
Speaker A: He'S like a little boy. He's soft, sensitive. I think that's what we're supposed to get is how soft and sensitive he is.
Speaker B: But he's all I mean, also it's it's he doesn't want to fuck up this relationship. Sure. Because now she's like at the beginning of the episode when they were in the bedroom, she was kind of like, uh, I don't know. And he has to constantly reassure her that what they're doing is okay, right. So I wonder he doesn't want to move too fast to scare her off. So this is his version of that. But also at the same time, he'll talk about how horny.
Speaker A: Is potentially we could say he has done a lot of growing because he had this relationship with Jen. That was his first relationship. Mhm, right. He maybe learned what he's looking for and what he wants. So now he can be a little bit more protective or a little bit more intentional with this relationship. And he also has had that wool pulled from his eyes and the girl that knew whatever is the one he wants. So maybe you're right. He's just being that's why he's coy, but I don't know.
Speaker B: Very pointed that the movie that they're watching is The Last Picture Show. If you've seen it, uh, on a Vision, 1971, it's an extremely good movie. Very worth watching. I won't spoil it for those that don't know what it is. But thematically, I will say it is about it is about a small town where characters are trying to progress in their relationships and their life and their goals and dreams. And it does not work out for them and it ends badly for people. And it's kind of reinforcing this idea of the world may change around us, but we still stay the same. Interesting, we're stuck in our grooves and just like, bad shit happens. And um, it's famous for kind of like there is no Hollywood ending for us. Our lives are just like lives. That's it. So I find it interesting that they're using this in the first episode of season two where we're seeing these characters that there is like a narrative trajectory with these characters, with what they're dealing with. But I'm wondering is them watching The Last Picture Show showing us that well, maybe Dawson and Joey are not going to get the Hollywood ending that they think that they're about to have. That's why it is called The Last Picture Show. Because within that movie, they're seeing a movie at a movie theater that's closing. But also it's supposed to be like, this is the end of the Hollywood movie, right? This is not what real life is like. So also with that, I mean, think of all these other characters. Mission and Gale are going to try to get their relationship back together, but maybe that won't work out. Maybe they will get divorced and that will be like a thing that we could look forward to. Um, not in a fun way, obviously, but this is something that could probably those characters jen, who knows where she goes from here. So it feels pointed. It feels like very purposeful that that's the movie that they're seeing. I mean, we all know that Dawson, his entire life is Hollywood. Life has to be this magical Spielberg kind of version of what life should be. But the last biggest show is like the anti Spielberg. So I feel like now he's going to get a taste of reality. I don't know.
Speaker A: And with what we know about this show and how it uses film, right? I mean, with season one, alternate titles of episodes were movies that kind of dealt with the topics. The beginning scene of every episode in season one was always about a movie that kind of summarized or featured the plot points that the episode deals with. We didn't get that in this episode. We didn't start with a movie just like the finale didn't. Um, but the one featured film in this is The Last Picture Show. And I think it's kind of after hearing you summarize that, it's kind of hard, I would say impossible to ignore what we know about this show and how it uses film and there being some kind of significance or relevance there. But I wonder what the symbology or the messaging is with. So that's Joey and Dawson's first date movie, right? They're going to go and see that they don't actually end up watching that movie and she leaves him there. So are m they themselves rejecting the rejection of the Hollywood story.
Speaker D: Uh, they might get what movie will they watch in the new theater? Yes, the movie that they'll watch in the new theater that's coming.
Speaker A: Yeah. M interesting.
Speaker C: Yeah, it's so interesting. I didn't know what movie that was. I didn't know anything about it. But that feels like that adds so much more. Mhm and that does make me feel like the writers are very smart in like, incorporating those things.
Speaker A: Definitely. Um, it has to be intentional.
Speaker C: Yeah. But then you think like, well, like, who's the target audience? The target audience isn't going to pick up on those subtle things.
Speaker A: Mhm yeah, because teens are ostensibly the audience of this teen drama show. Maybe the ones who identify with Dawson who are big film nerds are going to know that. But I would imagine the majority of primetime TV audience isn't going to be.
Speaker B: Like, oh my god, the Last Picture.
Speaker D: The parents, their parents, yeah. Probably more likely would know.
Speaker B: Uh, it's also important to note that it's like one of Jeff Bridge's first big performances. He's always acted, but uh, he's such.
Speaker A: A little cutie in it. Oh wow.
Speaker C: Oh my gosh. We'll post that photo.
Speaker A: HM. He's got a rug that she's looking for right there.
Speaker B: Really good movie. Check it out. Also civil. Shepherd is in it. She's amazing. She's in like Taxi Driver.
Speaker A: Yeah, really good. Another slightly different detail that ah, I wonder if you all noticed. I'm sure you guys did, but in the dolly shot that they get of the rialto inside the theater where they're establishing the audience who's about to watch this movie, um, briefly, you see Graham's in the foreground of the shot and she's like got her hands clasped and she's looking up and she looks so happy. And at first it's just kind of cute. But upon rewatch what we know later, uh, about her purpose for being there, that she just wanted to be close to Grants. So I think that is just such a nice detail and I think it really shows that they're taking this show more seriously, they're paying more attention, they're trying harder because that feels like why they would send her there. Right. She's there because of this nice detail about her past relationship with Grants. It also could very easily just be something that they came up with to explain why it happened at the end. And if it were that, they wouldn't have had that shot of her looking so much like she's just absorbing her. Last time in this theater, she just wouldn't have been featured there at all. Right. But instead we see her there and we see it's show don't tell, right? Mhm. Well, we had the one side of show don't tell earlier where it's like, yeah, divorced people only don't call us if you're happy. Now we're seeing Graham's actually living what she's saying that she is there just to soak in that moment, I thought it was a really, really cool and nice thing to see. Yeah.
Speaker D: Also, while we're talking about the use of the theater, the realtor lobby again, is the setting for a fight between Dawson and Jen, which in the past, that lobby has kind of been, uh.
Speaker A: That uh, setting for Dawson has fought with both of his loves. Here Jen and Joey. Joey told him to stop living in a fantasy life in the lobby in season one. And here Jen is telling him, I'll kill myself if you don't love me.
Speaker D: I.
Speaker A: Guess that was pretty painful to hear. That's where I was talking about. I don't feel like that would fly today. No, they would really have to word and write that carefully.
Speaker B: I mean, the scene could have played totally fine without the suicide reference. But just, uh, before I forget, it's so fascinating to me. I did not put this together. Uh, the realtor is Dawson's church. Yes. Uh, and the fact that these two fights with the two women of his life are taking place at his church, it's like breaking his faith. Right. His belief that Hollywood has sold him this idea of romance. And now that idea is crashing around him within this building that represents that.
Speaker A: Yeah, that's about to be torn down, too. And what is it replaced with? But also on that same note, not only is the movie theater Dawson's church, we know that Dawson and Graham connect over their love of old movies. Remember from back in the Hurricane episode? And what do we see Graham's doing? She's literally praying in the movie theater. Yeah.
Speaker D: When the camera went across Grams, that's what I thought about because I was like, she looks like she's in church.
Speaker A: How interesting. So they're a lot more related and connected, I think, uh, than initially we maybe jokingly thought they were.
Speaker B: Uh, earlier I had said, I wish this episode was called The Kiss Part Two. Another alternate title. I would call this Jen's big swing. Uh, I cannot believe Jen just casually popping into the theater and sitting right next to them.
Speaker A: Oh, man. I love that she decides to cosplay as her grandma, though. When she shows up, she's like, wearing it looks like she is genuinely dressed as Graham's here.
Speaker B: Probably pointed to.
Speaker D: He also had the little mini twisty buns, which was a very popular hairstyle during that time.
Speaker C: I don't know if you remember that. Um, yeah, I thought it was weird. My impression of the conversation that Dawson and Jen had was him encouraging her to not sit around and to get out. But I did not get the impression that he was inviting her at all. No. So I thought that was funny that she was like, oh, yeah, you invited me.
Speaker D: Has anybody come to the ice house?
Speaker A: After happens where you encounter somebody doesn't have to necessarily be an ex, but somebody that there is some weird tension with and you have a plan to go somewhere and you're like, not inviting them, but not not inviting them, and then they show up. Has that ever happened to any of you guys? It has happened to me, which is why I'm asking.
Speaker C: Nothing is popping in my head.
Speaker B: I'm also a very oblivious person.
Speaker A: It felt relatable to me in that moment as somebody who doesn't want to alienate people or exclude people, but also has known these times where it's like, circles can't really mix here. But I'm not going to be an asshole and say, you can't come. And then the worst case scenario situation happens and they do show up. And then you're just like, why the fuck are you here? Why did you think that you should show up? And they're like, well, because why wouldn't I? You didn't say not to. And that's what I thought Jen was in that moment. I genuinely don't know. Does Jen know what she's doing? Is she oblivious of what she's doing or is she doing it subconsciously?
Speaker B: It's a pretty manipulative tactic if she does know what she's doing.
Speaker A: But she's so hurt, which is what we find out in the lobby. She is so hurt here. And when you're hurt, you do things without even realizing them. Right? There are so many things happen subconsciously that bubble up and then you're just like doing shit that you didn't intentionally think about doing.
Speaker B: She's not in a good mental health space. I mean, the sequence immediately following her, sitting down next to them is her saying that she would kill herself. Uh, and I mean, in the moment it feels like not a real threat because this is the everyone's saying I'm going to kill myself over everything. So, uh, not taking her too seriously. But at the same time, we do know that she's not in a good space because of Dawson and Joy, but also because of Graham. So it's like she's just like losing it to spiraling.
Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. I think she's just in that having been in those moments myself, when it feels like everything is going wrong, you do things to see what's going to happen so that you get the feedback, right? So she's going there to see what Dawson's response is going to be. Dawson's response is like, why are you here? She got the feedback she needed. Right? That's what then causes what happens in the lobby where she is like now fully. She's realizing her whole world is collapsing in on itself.
Speaker B: It's also shitty too, because I feel like we spent a lot of time last season talking about how Dawson was, uh, always pushing her boundaries. Um, it felt like she didn't have a lot of agency in that relationship. And then now she thinks it's her fault for pushing him away because he was upset that she broke up with him. So now she's like, oh, please take me back. I'm so sorry I push you away. So it's like, again, is Dawson even conscious of this or is he taking everything at face value? What she's saying is he not aware that, well, maybe I need to be more direct with her and say like, no, you were right to break up with me. I was also a, uh, bad boyfriend.
Speaker A: Yeah, that's where I kind of am struggling, too with the conversation they're having right here between Jen and Dawson in the lobby about Jen really kind of grilling him to understand the motivations, I guess, for what's happening. Because she said something about, like so the whole time we were together, you were secretly wishing you were with Joey? It's like, you know that that's not true because we all saw it happening. We all were there with you. And I know when you're going through hard times, like, your reality gets distorted and you remember things differently and all that stuff, maybe that's what we're seeing. But it felt really confusing to me because it felt like what we were seeing was instead Jen twisting the scenario, the situation to make it worse for herself, which is also a relatable thing. I have done that myself. So I don't know, it's like so nuanced here and I don't know how much is the writing and them really doing a good job here and how much of it is just like us reading into what was there.
Speaker B: And the most confusing part sorry, that you forgot to mention, is, uh, her saying jumping in reference to fucking I've never met before.
Speaker A: Just promise me one thing, you guys, aren't you're not going to jump Joey right away? Like, okay, are you going to rob her?
Speaker C: I think that flew over my head. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker A: Yeah, you were just too wrapped up in how amazing her outfit probably was.
Speaker C: Yeah, I don't know, I think I just feel pretty confused about what's happening with Jen.
Speaker A: Um, yeah, I actually clipped this. Do you guys want to hear her summarize her trajectory on this show real quick? I think it's interesting to hear her perspective, uh, on what she's done and what her purpose is.
Speaker C: From being the girl next door to.
Speaker D: The object of your affection to the third wheel. It's been quite a ride.
Speaker A: Dawson, she don't even think about this now. I mean, she really thinks that her purpose is just to be the third wheel here. She isn't failing the Beckhill test intentionally. Now to say her entire existence is just to be some furniture for Dawson's story. She believes the fantasy that we were fed in season.
Speaker B: One. Like you said, too much nuance. Yeah, I mean, it's great. I love that we don't know instead of just like everyone speaking exactly what.
Speaker A: They mean to each other.
Speaker D: So Dawson goes back into the theater and the yellow flowers there Joey's gone.
Speaker B: Yeah. And the fact that you friendship yeah. Earlier mentioned. So she's leaving her friendship behind and.
Speaker D: Does that mean yeah, she's leaving her friendship behind for a romantic relationship because later, obviously, we see them come around.
Speaker A: And I'm just thinking sorry, I was just thinking. So Dawson goes back in, he finds the rose or the flower sorry, conspicuously, uh, under a spotlight. I wonder, do you think she's perfectly.
Speaker D: Placed, uh, on the edge of the seat?
Speaker A: Joey is like, all right, okay, I got to go up to the projection room. Hey, do you have a spotlight that we can put on my seat real quick? Because I need my date to find this.
Speaker C: But wouldn't Dawson have seen Joey leave?
Speaker A: You would have thought.
Speaker B: Yeah, they went into like a little.
Speaker D: Corner area in the lobby, the other side or the exit, like the emergency accent.
Speaker A: So Dawson goes back in and he finds that. And I didn't even really think about what Jen does, but now I'm just putting it together. We later see her, she's in the back of the theater so she just goes and watches the rest of the movie by herself.
Speaker B: It's a great movie.
Speaker A: She was like, I got enough of this. I feel like it would probably negatively impact her mental health mode.
Speaker B: After what you've told us, the movie is dark. Um, um, the most important thing that we haven't talked about is when Michelle Williams is walking into the. Theater to sit next to Donald. Uh, she is holding a bag of Skittles. Anyone else thinks she was holding a carrot?
Speaker A: Oh no.
Speaker B: Okay, 1st, 2nd, third, and fourth glance I was like, is that a carrot she's holding? It fooled me every single time in bright white lettering.
Speaker A: Skittles. I, uh, love the idea of somebody just in a movie theater like carrots. Sorry, I just got my carrot.
Speaker C: The other thing is, Pacey, uh, says his fun little rhyme again and has the whistle.
Speaker A: Yes. And his shirt is atrocious this weird like, pattern I don't really even know how to it's like somewhat fifty s. I don't know. Anyway, that was the most throwaway scene of the entire episode because literally the only thing he does is go while whistling and saying the same fucking poem he said earlier. And then they cut. So, I mean, I guess we're seeing that he's being stood up. Cool. M done without that though, because they later say directly, yes, sorry I stood you up.
Speaker B: I actually think it's important to include it because you get it right before a commercial break. So you as the audience see Pacey waiting and then you also feel like, uh, you're stood up with his story because you don't come back to it. You have to watch commercials, you have to get back to everything else until you finally see Pacey later. So in your mind you're like, oh my god, maybe a day has passed, right? You don't know how much time has passed since Christie.
Speaker A: This is where wish that David Lynch or Mark Frost were writing on this show because you know that they would have made that poem have a second verse that was more specific to being stood up, uh, and what that might now mean for the day. Instead of just saying I want to see you naked and then kiss you.
Speaker B: Maybe, and then end with firewalk with.
Speaker A: Me somebody getting viciously murdered.
Speaker B: I mean, with the show being lynchy. And I did realize that in the first scene when, uh, Joey and Dawson are speaking to one another, dawson does refer to the relationship as a.
Speaker A: Dream. Interesting. Go. Okay, on that note, we are now going to go on our final break, so we will see you on the other side. Mhm.
Speaker B: After waiting several hours, Christy finally shows up to the park only to let Pacey know that not only does she have a boyfriend, but she came to tell Pacey that he's brave for living life to the fullest with a quote unquote heart stripe. Turns out Andy had fed her a, ah, silly rumor about an incurable medical condition. Pacey plays along until she leaves him to his lonesome. Later at a grocery store, he runs into Andy and they rightfully give each other a bunch of shit for putting each other under a lot of stress. Pacey admits his defeat and laments about how his frosted tips persona didn't change things for him. Andy's Bickering turns playful when she suggests a hair product for him. They'll get him back to square one, telling him that his old look was better. Back at the Rialto, the Last Picture Show ends and the theater empties out. Graham sees Jennifer sulking in the back and asks about Graham's, but Jen admits to feeling isolated, friendless and alone, and Graham's comforts her while telling a story about how she went to the realtor on her first date with Gramps. Meanwhile, Gail and Mitch remind us of their B story. Gail knows about Mitch's trip to divorce court, and Mitch tells her that he doesn't know if he believes they can salvage their marriage or if divorce is the answer tabled as, uh, to be continued. But most importantly, Dawson finds a sad Joey down by the boardwalk and apologizes for running after Jen. She's pretty much cool with it and lets Dawson know that she chose to chip. She chose to skip on her France opportunity because she thought it would be too much of an easy way out and instead wants to, uh, fight it out in Capeside. Oh, and yeah, of course, there's also Dawson. While the tension heats up, he playfully leads her on a tour of France, aka Capeside's Boardwalk, which ends on a swing set where they kiss again. He speaks an allegory of the Rialto being rebuilt as a new, better theater, equating it to their friendship relationship, and they kiss a third.
Speaker C: Time. Okay, I appreciate that Andy did this prank, um, but I feel like the medical piece, the heart stripe piece, is, like, an interesting.
Speaker D: Choice.
Speaker C: I feel like she could have come up with, like, a better thing. I don't know. Um, that wasn't medical related. I'm trying to think of something else, but it just seems like, okay, it's funny that you had him get stood up by the cheerleader, but over a weird I don't know, I don't know, felt silly.
Speaker A: It didn't make a lot of sense. I was personally relieved that it wasn't, like, some other 90s trope that they could have used. Like, some version of the R word is what he suffers from. Yes. That's what I really thought. That's immediately where I thought it was going.
Speaker C: Me too.
Speaker A: Um, and when they twisted it and it was a medical thing, I was.
Speaker B: Like, oh, my.
Speaker A: Gosh. Um, I do think that, though, ultimately just served the purpose of having the she's a dumb blonde joke because she was like, I suffer from asthma and I always hate when people treat me different. Okay, so you're stupid, though, that he.
Speaker D: Played along with it. He didn't make her feel stupid, really about it. You would have thought he would be like, oh, well, that was a lot, or something. But he just kind of thinks about it, internalizes it, and thinks, wow, Andy pulled that off, didn't.
Speaker A: She?
Speaker B: Good loser. Yeah. I believe Andy to be a perfect character. Kind, um, of like christ. And I think, uh, maybe it was a two for one for her. She was like, I can make Christy look like even more of an idiot for falling for something this stupid.
Speaker A: Mhm.
Speaker B: And she was just like that confident about it. And I can screw over Pacey.
Speaker D: Yeah. Oh, did anyone notice that Christie's holding a piece of paper in this? And then for the most of the scene and she's sitting there next to Pacey. And then when she gets up to go back to her boyfriend, it's not in her hand. So I was kind of wondering if it was like lines, like a few lines that she had to remember.
Speaker A: So this is where I want to talk. You were talking about how they probably had to just get one take of everything in season one. I think you're totally right. They had way more time to explore things in season two. And this scene specifically is an artifact of that because I bet you they were trying multiple different reasons for why Pacey got the sympathy date and the heart stripe was just one version of it. And she had to have the thing in her hand to remind her of what the changed line may be. Or they were just trying a different alternate line take. But because she doesn't have the paper in her hand in the establishing shot of her walking up and she doesn't have the paper in her hand, uh, and her leaving the shot, but for a couple shots, she has it in her hand when she's talking to Pacey and she's not even doing much to hide. It almost like it was just like a test take to enter the blocking or something like that. Which maybe it was just a blocking take, but it was just really interesting.
Speaker B: And it's important to remember too, with shows like this, you're not just going to have one version of a screenplay and then it's done for each episode. It's like they're really writing this on the fly. And sometimes it'll be like, you'll come to that day for shooting and they'll be like, okay, great. Uh, actors, they change the script. So this is your new lines for the day, right? So they probably did do that that's.
Speaker A: Just changed the line reading. It was cool. Mal pointed it out.
Speaker B: Yeah, my initial thought was like, oh, Andy told her that he's gay and needs, uh, a beard and so she's going to agree to be his fake girlfriend.
Speaker A: Well, after all of the Brother Dougie secretly gay stuff, that would be right at home in this fucking show.
Speaker B: I wonder if Mike White was just like, you guys just got it out with the gay shit. Not cool. I do love them. So, like, when he meets up with Andy at the grocery store and their conversation about the hairdie and stuff. Damn it. Okay, so when I first watched this episode, I was like, Pacey's back to being horny boy Pacey. And that sucks. But it's so clearly his facade. He needs to be the cool guy. And what better way to show that than with the frosted tips? Like, he has to play a character. He's constantly wearing a mask to hide who he truly is. And I thought it was so great when he picks up the peroxide and Andy specifically says, like, no, that'll just turn all your hair white. Like, you need, uh, this this little go back to who you really are. And it's like the thing that he picks up is to make him the opposite of who he is. And she's the one saying, like, no, you need to be yourself. And that feels so good.
Speaker A: That's awesome. That's such a good reading because I didn't catch that at all. I was just distracted because I'm pretty sure the vitamins that were on the wall behind him are the exact same vitamins that are in the store right now, like, 25 years later. I haven't sold them, but yeah, that's such a good reading because, like, you're right. She is, like, kind of telling him, in a way, you don't have to change you or you have to go back to what you what you could be. You don't have to change yourself to find what you're looking for. You just have to be yourself. Yeah. And that's so sweet.
Speaker B: It is. It's the, uh, corny but true. Just be yourself. That's the best advice. Uh, did anyone catch the name of the market that they're in?
Speaker A: No, but I love this.
Speaker D: It's like an old fashioned pharmacy.
Speaker B: Yeah, it's cute. Uh, it is giving me an aneurysm thinking about it because it's called Molly's Market, but it is spelled M-M-O-L-L-Y-E. I've never heard Molly.
Speaker D: Sorry, uh, for any molly's market. Any lister out there.
Speaker B: If your name is Molly and you go by Molly. Very sorry.
Speaker A: Strange.
Speaker B: But yeah. I've never seen it written that's so strange like that. And when I was trying to I was like, what is this place called? And I had to frame by frame it like, what the fuck? Is there a missing letter? It's like a head.
Speaker A: Like, no weird Molly. Maybe they're a big Molly. They're all somaliers. And they're like, maybe, um, we should be a grocery store. Maybe we aren't just selling wine. Maybe we sell groceries. Mollies. Yeah, actually, I wanted speaking of the grocery store, I love the chemistry that Pacey and Andy have that we talk that we have talked about previously, and I think that this really captures it well. Andy is so charming and she's so funny and she's so witty, and this line is perfect.
Speaker C: Let's stacey, I don't really know you, but if you thought for even 1 second that Christy Livingstone was going to dump her beautiful, allstate football boyfriend for you, a sophomore with a heart.
Speaker A: Strength. She's so fucking funny. The delivery on that the callback the treating this fictional medical disease is a real thing. It's just so fucking funny. I hope there's so much more of that.
Speaker C: Um, from my memory, I think she sticks around for a while. Um, but I don't remember the show very well. Like I said, I watched bits and pieces as a kid. Um, but I have a memory of not liking her and I don't know why. And I'm curious to see what happens and if there was a reason I didn't like her. I don't know. Um, m, but so far I'm really excited. I think she's really fun. And I'm excited that she's an addition to our course.
Speaker A: She really rounds out the cast in a great way.
Speaker B: She's, uh, perfect. So I'm scared. Don't like hearing that.
Speaker A: Did anybody catch back at the Realto? When Graham leaves, she sees Jennifer.
Speaker C: Jennifer.
Speaker A: Jennifer, you're wearing my outfit. And anyway, they're talking. And this is where Jen's like, did you find some you're going to go find some action now? Or whatever stupid shit she says. But Graham says this. And uh, it just made me raise my eyebrows just a little bit.
Speaker D: I didn't come tonight to watch the movie.
Speaker A: I came to be with him. I'm so sorry.
Speaker D: He was never as handsome as that night.
Speaker A: What the fuck, grandma?
Speaker D: I know.
Speaker A: What? He never looked good again. He's an old, ugly old fucking trout. As soon as we left. He looked damn good that night. But god damn, he's fucking ugly.
Speaker B: Yeah. Weird way to put it. I just say, like love it for sight or something.
Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, it starts so sweet and there's the emotion. Stella is crying right now, just thinking she was so touched by that speech. And then she's like immediately she's a student of mystery. She's just immediately nagging cramps. She's like ugly. Yeah.
Speaker B: You'll probably not believe this, but your grandfather was once attractive.
Speaker A: But your entire life who saw him looking like a shrek, chewed up piece of bubble gum stuck on the heel of my shoe.
Speaker B: Uh, it's tough when we get these scenes with Grams and I feel for her and I'm like, oh, you're like so sweet to Jen. And what a forgiving soul to still embrace Jen even though she's going through all this. And then I just remember that she's a fucking racist girl.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker A: Confusing.
Speaker B: I really hope they backtrack.
Speaker A: Clearly.
Speaker B: It feels like they're rewriting this character to be more loving and compassionate. Uh, I hope maybe she's like, oh, remember when I was listening to too much Rush Limbaugh?
Speaker A: Maybe.
Speaker D: The closing of the Realtor also represents a new beginning for Graham.
Speaker A: She's going to get really into like, Rollerboarding.
Speaker B: I found out about Healeys.
Speaker A: Have you seen these things? Watch me go.
Speaker B: I can grind the whole boardwalk from.
Speaker A: Our house to the Rialto. I love Grams. I hate Grams.
Speaker C: But no, I feel like, she's such a fun character, and then I always forget.
Speaker A: Yeah, that's what the show wants you to do. They want us to forget. But Cody, he hashtag never forgets.
Speaker B: Exactly. 911. Uh, we do like complicated characters, folks. We love it when a character you hate them, you love them. You know, what are they all about? But, um, being a racist school isn't cool and kind of fucking unforgivable. Uh, so, yeah, come on, let's put.
Speaker A: That on a T shirt. Being a racist school isn't cool. And then Cody was too thumbs up.
Speaker B: She's got to be grandfathered her folding laundry. Uh, I want to talk about mission Gail for a little bit. Uh, so when Gail is trying to accost Mitch about their relationship, you know what's going on? Uh, did anyone else think Mitch was reading Harry.
Speaker A: Potter?
Speaker B: Being a kid of the 90s, uh, I'll forever associate every book that has that binding to it looking like Harry Potter. I just love the idea of Mitch being like, I wonder if I'd be a Hufflepuff gayle.
Speaker A: Hold on. They're in Diagon Alley right now. Harry's about to get his fucking wand.
Speaker B: It's 98. I feel like that's, uh, the published in 97 came to the States in 98.
Speaker A: I think he's got those glasses on too, and he just looks like he could be a professor at Hogwarts. M. Why is Gail confused about why Mitch might want a divorce here? Anybody have a thought? Maybe just because they've been working on it?
Speaker C: Yeah, I think it seems like it just came out of nowhere.
Speaker D: She hasn't been talking to her about anything, but then suddenly right, suddenly he's.
Speaker A: Like, going to a divorce lawyer.
Speaker B: It really feels like the scenes that we do see of them, those are the only times that they're actually communicating, because they never talk about their relationship. It's just like what we see is all there is. All the other time is spent. They're separate. Um, so maybe that is why they're both so confused about these things, because they don't actually communicate at all.
Speaker A: He spends all day looking for distressed fishing nets to put in his future concept.
Speaker B: Restaurant. He's not reading Gary Potter, looking for things to aesthetic up the kelp.
Speaker C: Um, I don't know if you caught this recording, um, James, but, um, when Gail basically gives him the two options, and she's like, do either of these sound pleasant, uh, to you? And he's like, yeah, both, but not sure which one.
Speaker A: That made me laugh. I thought that was a very well written I had three laughs on my laugh track this week, and that was one of them when he delivered that line, because I don't know which one I want to do right now. And I want them to get a divorce. I'm sorry.
Speaker C: You do?
Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I guess you're right, Cody, because we don't see them communicate. This is, uh, the only time we see them talk and they're never actually talking about things. They're just talking around things. Or they're just like super hot and heavy. So it just feels like they don't.
Speaker B: Actually have a relationship. I can't tell if these characters are extremely shallow in the way that they're written or if they're just shallow people. It's like all they do is fuck and then they argue. And then it's like, oh, uh, she's cheating on him. But we never really found out why because she didn't really give a reason. And now they don't even know if they should have a divorce. It's like, well, yeah, maybe you should because you're not.
Speaker A: And they did a really good job of making her look, I mean, like a complicated character, but like a bad, impulsive character in that whole assassination of her with Joey M in season one. So I just have a hard time feeling invested in them as a couple.
Speaker B: But now I feel like they're becoming more of, like actual flesh and blood characters than they were, uh, in season one. So I feel like they received more substantial screen time in this episode than they would from previous episodes. Uh, I don't know. Maybe it's just because the writing is better, but I felt like, oh, these are real people now and we're going to follow this trajectory a little more than what we've been given. So I'm excited to see where this goes because now the writers, everyone who's behind the camera knows, like, oh, we were renewed. Like, we can really build on this forever.
Speaker A: And I guess to that point, what I was saying is all we know about them is their sex lives this season. Their first scene is actually Mitch rebuffing her and turning down sex. No, we can't just have a sexual relationship anymore. We need to work this out. Uh, or I need to divorce you. But obviously they're going to work it out. I don't think that they're actually going to get a divorce. I guess we're seeing that they are going to show us a different side of their relationship.
Speaker B: Can't.
Speaker A: Wait. Did anybody see the figurine that's on the behind? Mitch? He's sitting there voldemort. It looks like lara Croft, tomb raider. I don't know what it was. It was just like a weird little statue on the shelf behind him. It's out of focus. It's hard to see, but it felt like an Easter egg type thing. Anyway.
Speaker B: Maybe it was watercraft. Where did the first tomb raider come out?
Speaker A: Good question.
Speaker B: Got to be like 98. Yeah. Mitch is just like a big Tomb Raider fan. Well, here we are, guys. Have a little faith in me.
Speaker A: Oh, boy. Have a little faith in me.
Speaker B: Uh, I don't want to admit it again, but I was charmed by Dawson talking about capesideby in France.
Speaker A: What?
Speaker B: You don't know what's wrong with me. Uh, did my heart grow three times the size over this break? I don't know, but I thought it was cute that he was doing that.
Speaker A: It was cute. I got to say it was cute. Uh, did it work on me? No, I thought it was gross. But I'm so happy that it worked for.
Speaker B: You. I still think it's disgusting that she's giving up France, uh, for these very vague reasons that we should get into. But also she's like, and also because of you. And so his reaction to that is like, I'll bring France to you. Um, you want the moon? I'll show it for you. Uh, but it worked for me. I liked it.
Speaker A: Well, I mean, he's just such a he's so spiffy and his very large T shirt and very large pants. And he says, Zest swing set. And God, he's French. French fries, french toast, French doors. And there's only one more French thing we can do french kiss babies. And I love that Joey's like, French kiss. Yeah, that's the fucking joke. You got it. Good job we got there.
Speaker B: Uh, I want to talk about the parallel of Joey's decision, which is insane, but also with Pacey. So Pacey's identity being wrapped up in this hair, the peroxide represents him trying to be anyone but himself. Whereas with Joey, her reasoning for not going to France, she says, that would be an easy way out. And she says sticking around here capeside would make her stronger. So it's like she's obsessed with being herself. She cannot be anyone else other than she's so fixated on, like, I am the girl from the small town, I can't be anything else. Um, and it's hard for her to even imagine, like, a world where anything would be different and she has to prove herself in a weird way. Whereas Pacey would do absolutely anything other than being himself.
Speaker D: She also says, I don't understand why they have to change something if it already works in that scene. So that's kind of what she's saying there.
Speaker A: Ain't broke, don't fix it.
Speaker B: Uh, I wish all these characters have that accent, but I do like that parallel. I love that we have two characters in the show. One that hates who they are and one that is obsessed with not being able to be anyone else but themselves.
Speaker A: It is rich. Joey is unapologetically.
Speaker B: Herself unapologetically.
Speaker A: You replace the A with an uppercase I because it's about me. You guys just don't get it.
Speaker B: So, uh, this is the biggest mistake of her life, right?
Speaker D: Yeah, well, biggest.
Speaker A: Yeah, it has to be.
Speaker C: I would absolutely choose to go to France. I do kind of understand, like, that mentality, uh, of is kind of like running away from her problems in some sense, by just going away. Um, and I like her thinking of staying here will make me stronger to face the things that I need to face. Um, but it is very disappointing. Um, and I wonder obviously, we see her confront her feelings for Dawson, but is she going to confront the more, I think, complicated issue of her daddy problems.
Speaker D: They didn't strange the absence of this.
Speaker C: Episode because I feel like that was a very big yeah. Thing leading up to her deciding about France and then it wasn't really touched on.
Speaker B: I will never, ever get over that scene in the finale where her dad is like, by the way, Dawson loves you.
Speaker A: Oh, man, so awesome.
Speaker B: That'll be the high point of this entire series for me.
Speaker A: Rome stella, you saying you definitely would have chosen to go to France? I don't think I would have. I think I would have chosen, like Joey did, to stay and not go. Because going is really scary. And especially I think Joey wants more than anything to feel, like, secure and safe. That's what she's always wanted. That's, like, probably the only thing she wants. She doesn't get it. And I think the second that she gets some semblance of that from Dawson, she's no longer willing to risk the unknown for that feeling. Um, because yeah, I think she's obviously a very brave and strong character who is clearly capable of doing it. But I think the moment she gets that, that's the second it all changes for her. And yeah, I don't know. Uh, but I don't think I would have done that either. I think that I would have been like, hell no, I'm not going to go spend it, however long over there. I just met this cool girl named what, uh, would be the equivalent of Dawson. What's.
Speaker B: It say?
Speaker A: Donna. I just met a cool girl named Donna. She's really into paper machete. Is paper, michael a hobby. Can you just do that? Yeah. Ah, okay, cool. Uh, do you guys want to do Paper Michael later? Sounds cool.
Speaker C: Uh, I do remember my sister making a Paper Michael mask in the think that was big paper machete in the 90s.
Speaker A: Yeah, I know I have one with our school, but I just don't know anybody that's, like, for fun at home.
Speaker D: Like, dipping newspapers in the 90s.
Speaker B: Okay, uh, have a little faith in me. Fucking rules. I love that we closed out this episode with that song. I love that it ended with that spoken word section that was like, come here, Darlin. Because for a second I was like.
Speaker A: Who'S did the character to speak that's? Dustin. That was awesome.
Speaker B: He was talking.
Speaker A: Darlin. Come here.
Speaker B: Darlington yeah. It's the best song I've ever heard in my life. And then the episode ends.
Speaker A: I immediately wanted to watch the next episode. I have never felt, uh, like a feeling like that before where I just wanted to go, like I was ready to go. I haven't gone yet. Oh, you, uh, haven't yet? No. I've been waiting to pee since watching that episode. But yeah, I'm so ready to get into this episode after that. Rarely have I felt that feeling with the first episode where it both delivered on like introducing what I am expecting from the rest of the season while also being satisfying and making m me want to get into that next act. What are we going to see next? I'm so excited. So excited.
Speaker D: Just can't hide it.
Speaker B: You enter our ratings? Yeah.
Speaker A: Wow. Holy shit. I actually forgot about our ratings for a moment.
Speaker B: Oh my god.
Speaker C: How do we do it? One to five.
Speaker A: One to five? On a scale of one to Five.
Speaker C: Creeks, who do you want to start?
Speaker B: Yeah, sure. I will give this four out of five Creeks. Uh, this is starting to feel like a real show to me. Besides the fact that Jen is just treading water, uh, everyone else feels like there's like some progress or push to their characters. Will Dawson and Joey laugh? Will Pacey learn to be as herself? We'll mention Gilgi to divorce. It's exciting. Uh, plus like I said, this is like a massive jump in production. I actually feel like I'm watching a real TV show instead of a bunch of people gluing, uh, out of order scenes together. Just like wishing for the best. So yeah, I thought this was a really strong first episode of season.
Speaker D: Two. I'm ah, going to give it a four as well. Yeah. Enjoyed it. Um, excited to see some new characters and everyone's story is progressing so yeah, pretty.
Speaker A: Simple.
Speaker C: Yeah, I think I'll give it a four. I'm on m the fence about doing a tiny bit lower but um, yeah, overall I thought it was a very strong start to season two. It did definitely leave me wanting more. Very excited to keep going.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker C: I think like I said at the beginning, I just didn't love or I feel like myself. I could get very tired of the Dawson Goe relationship very quickly. Um, and bummed about Jen, but I do think it is kind of lining up a lot of interpersonal conflicts for her and I think that will be an interesting storyline. I feel like she's going to do a lot of self discovery as my hope and my prediction. So that should be interesting. But as of now it feels pretty not great.
Speaker A: Well, I'm sensing a theme here. Um, and I'm going to break that theme because I'm going to give this episode a two. They're not squared for four. I know I had it in the first half.
Speaker B: You gave Hurricane like a.
Speaker A: Three. Um, mostly I thought this episode was great. Fantastic. I really enjoyed it. I did watch this episode a few too many times though because my last, my last watch, uh, that I had to do when pulling the audio clips, I wanted it to be over so bad. Um, god damn, I was so ready for the episode to be done. That said though, like we've already talked about like we've gone on at length this season so far is really bringing a lot, um. To the table and I'm really excited to go forward, um, with this. And yeah, I mean, obviously everybody's a clone so, um, yeah. Can't go wrong. That brings us to our recommendations. I went last, so I'll go first. Isn't that the order we started last time?
Speaker B: No idea.
Speaker A: Go for it. Who knows? Um, okay great. So I'm going to break another tradition here.
Speaker B: Folks.
Speaker A: Not King Gizzard. I'm not going to recommend King Gizzard. Yeah, I hate those guys. What? Yeah.
Speaker C: Actually, you know what, it doesn't mean it.
Speaker A: I'm going to let you all in a big secret. I've never listened to King Gizzard. I don't know a first. I don't know a song. I think, uh, it's truly into. Like Wikipedia. Imagine all the people. That was the King Gizzard song right now. Um, no. Yeah, uh, I'm going to recommend an EP. But it's very interesting. It's very different than probably anything I've recommended previously. It's um, by an artist called Boulant that's spelled B-U-L-L-A-N-T. Um, and the album is Rove. Um, and it is like a deep house album. Really, really good. Um, just two tracks. You can't go wrong with them. They are definitely going to make you want to dance and uh, you will be aroused. Uh, as Dawson Creek once said. Yeah, bullant. Great, uh, guy. His name is Joey Walker and he is also the guitar player for King Gizzard. And the lizard wizard. Got you again. So it's all coming back in the end. But yeah, belong. Go check it out. Rove, great album, really good. And then I'm going to throw in another recommendation here. Shadow recommendation. It's for an album that is soon to be released by the artist Heavy Moss. Um, they haven't released a date yet. I know it's coming the week that we are recording so it's coming soon. Um, but just check out Heavy Moss on Instagram. It's from the bass player from King Gizzard and it's very nice. Chill music. You'll enjoy it.
Speaker C: I'll go next. So my recommendation is the TV show dead to me. Uh, you can watch it on Netflix. The third season came out this last November, the third and final season. Um, great show. Stars Christina Applegate and fellow freak not from Dawson, but freaking geeks are named, uh, Linda Cardellini. Yes, it is a dark comedy that um, is about these two women becoming friends, um, over, uh, experiencing grief in different ways. Um, but there's also kind of like a mystery element to it. Um, and it kind of goes in a little different direction than you anticipate. Um, but it's really, really funny and a really heartfelt, uh, friendship that blossoms and it's pretty emotional. The third season was hard and I cried a lot. But, um, it's a beautiful story and I loved it very much.
Speaker A: I've heard a lot of good things about this show. It's so good. A lot of my coworkers in previous jobs have or my most recent job have, ah, talked about this show. And I don't know how to take most people's recommendations, so I often don't follow up on them. But hearing you recommend it as well makes me think maybe I should.
Speaker C: Yeah, definitely recommend. I feel like it's a really unique story about friendship. Um, because yeah, I mean, I don't want to spoil anything, but I feel like it's rare that you see a story where it's like two older women becoming friends, um, and the hardships of friendship. Um, it's special and really funny.
Speaker A: I love Linda Cardellini. They're both so that's.
Speaker D: Awesome. My turn. I am going to recommend a series on Netflix called Kunk on Earth.
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker D: I don't know if anyone's heard of this one. Uh, it's a mockumentary series in which Philomena Kunk, a fake journalist played by British comedian Diane Morgan, visits historical sites and chats with academics about humanity's progress. Um, she is hilarious, and she never breaks character.
Speaker A: It's great. It is so fucking funny.
Speaker D: So funny. It's so fun to see her interact with serious academics and have them kind of play along.
Speaker B: Those are like Ali G show or like any such a bad kind of thing. Do they know that she's a character?
Speaker D: I think they do. I think maybe some of them do more than other it's hard to tell.
Speaker A: But I don't think it's like Between Two Ferns level, where they know what they're getting into before they're there. I think it's more similar to the Le G show, but I think the people that they cast are more likely to play along than not, uh, if that makes sense.
Speaker D: Her questions are, like, so ridiculous that there's no way that they think that this is someone real.
Speaker A: If you watched.
Speaker D: It hilarious. Um, and she travels to Rome and places that have a lot of history. I think it was, uh, originally released on BBC Two in 2022, but it was just recently released on Netflix.
Speaker A: Um, how many episodes is it again?
Speaker D: It's like five or something.
Speaker A: Yeah. So it's short and it's really funny. And it's kind of like one part travel show and one part comedy, you know, because she's going to, like, cool destinations that you want to go. And then she's also interviewing these people and being like, so why can't any of these people in these pictures turn their head to the left? Why are they all only looking right? Things like that.
Speaker D: But then she also yeah, um, a lot of it is just her talking to the camera about where she is and making up.
Speaker A: Making up. Stop it's so fucking fun. So funny.
Speaker B: I love a bullshitter.
Speaker A: She's great.
Speaker B: Uh, my recommendation is the 1969 Japanese experimental New Wave movie, funeral Parade of Roses, written and directed by excuse my pronunciation, uh, Toshio Matsumoto. It's this, uh, wildly transgressive for its time avantgarde movie that follows the lives of several trans women who are a part of an underground queer scene in Tokyo. It's narratively complex and often breaks the fourth wall to become a pseudo documentary that interviews the performers. It challenges cinematic language and structure and is wildly ahead of its time in regards to queer representation as well as its own style that's like reminiscent of Varda or like, John Waters, Lynch, Avis, Kirstami, and more. Uh, so for listeners who like movies that are challenging, experimental, weird and psychedelic, I couldn't suggest it enough. It had been on my list for a very long time and it's never on streaming services. So I hired, uh, it FBI, um, and then immediately bought it afterwards because I was like, oh, this movie is mind blowing. And when I first watched it, I thought at the beginning it had the little tag of when it was released and I thought it said 1989. And I was watching it, I was like, oh yeah, this feels like an 80s movie. But then I was reading about it later, I was like, 69. I cannot believe anyone was making movies.
Speaker A: Like this in the 60s.
Speaker B: Interesting. So crazy. Yeah, if you like weird shit and, um, want to have a crazy, wild time, check it out.
Speaker A: Yeah, it sounds interesting. I'm just reading along on the Wikipedia page for it as you're talking and it sounds, um, very challenging.
Speaker B: Ah, yeah, it's really good. It's upsetting too. But, uh, if you can stomach weird, uh, stuff, it's amazing. If you like lynch or like, uh, anything that's kind of challenging, you should check it out because it'll blow your top.
Speaker C: Sounds awesome. Well, next time, season two, episode two, we will be talking about Dawson's preoccupation with Joey when she causes him to forget Pacey's 16th birthday.
Speaker A: Wow. Ouch. Uh.
Speaker D: Uh, there he was.
Speaker B: Pacey going to really miss out on that. Here Pacey, I got you another bully shirt.
Speaker A: Uh, but Pacey needs a friend so bad.
Speaker C: Oh, I wonder if that means, like, he'll end up doing something with Andy.
Speaker D: Uh, or is he going to throw apart? Is there going to be a party at Paisy's house? Will we see Pacey's house?
Speaker A: Finally? Interesting. Oh my God, I hope we do. Holy shit. But I bet not because his family hates him. Yeah, it's going to be at the dump. His family is like, yeah, we organize the party for you. Just show up here and it's just a town dump.
Speaker B: I will talk you late. Laser tag.
Speaker A: Oh my god. Very nice. I, uh, love laser tag. All right, well, um, thank you all so much for listening. Uh, if you've enjoyed this episode, go ahead and subscribe to our show and whatever pod player you're listening to us in, share it with your friends. Uh, slap the wall and scream our podcast title. Just get creative with how you market us. I don't care. But anyway, join us each week as we continue to set sail through Dawson's creek one episode at a time. If you want more of our Freaks and Creeks content, go ahead and visit our website, freaksandcreeks.com. You can find us on Instagram at freaksandreekspod. Or you can write to us at show@freaksandcreeks.com. Until next time, bye bye.
Speaker B: Uh, we should pause because Wesley from a spider underneath your right ear.
Speaker A: Uh, it's right there.
Speaker B: It's on the.
Speaker D: Ground.
Speaker A: What? I killed that spider, everybody.
Speaker B: Holy shit. We got to keep this.
Speaker A: In.
Speaker B: Okay, cool.
Speaker A: Well, let's keep going, huh?
Speaker D: My God.
Speaker C: Wesley something or other.
Speaker A: Wesley Ship. That's his name.
Speaker B: John Wesley ship.
Speaker A: Oh, my God.
Speaker D: John Wesley ship.
Speaker A: That spider was just trying to make me a superhero. It heard us talking about I should have let you just, um yeah, so John Wesley Ship, who's got his.