In this episode Herb speaks with New York City Council Member Julie Menin. Council Member Menin represents New York City’s District 5 which covers the Upper East Side of Manhattan, as well as East Harlem, Lenox Hill-Roosevelt Island, Carnegie Hill, and Yorkville. Council Member Menin’s broad history serving NYC residents as the City’s Census Director, Commissioner of Consumer Affairs, as well as Commissioner of Media and Entertainment, provides Herb the opportunity to have a wide-ranging discussion on the NYC’s efforts adapting to post-prohibition cannabis.
Our Licensee Highlight segment features Sohan Bashar, owner of Silk Road NYC, an adult-use cannabis dispensary in Jamaica, Queens, NY. Sohan shares his deeply personal story as a Muslim, Bangladeshi, husband and father of two. Sohan discusses his path to receiving a New York State Conditional Adult-Use Retail Dispensary license; “a dream come true”, giving rise to this episode’s title.
Joint Session: Diverse Voices in NYS Cannabis is produced by Herb Barbot, with additional production and engineering by Matt Patterson, with Rebecca Malpica producing our digital marketing/social media.
Please contact us at herb.jointsession@gmail.com if you have any questions or comments, including topics to cover.
If you’re enjoying the show, leave us a rating and review on your favorite podcast platform. It helps new listeners find the show.
Chapters
In this episode Herb speaks with New York City Council Member Julie Menin. Council Member Menin represents New York City’s District 5 which covers the Upper East Side of Manhattan, as well as East Harlem, Lenox Hill-Roosevelt Island, Carnegie Hill, and Yorkville. Council Member Menin’s broad history serving NYC residents as the City’s Census Director, Commissioner of Consumer Affairs, as well as Commissioner of Media and Entertainment, provides Herb the opportunity to have a wi...
Show Notes
In this episode Herb speaks with New York City Council Member Julie Menin. Council Member Menin represents New York City’s District 5 which covers the Upper East Side of Manhattan, as well as East Harlem, Lenox Hill-Roosevelt Island, Carnegie Hill, and Yorkville. Council Member Menin’s broad history serving NYC residents as the City’s Census Director, Commissioner of Consumer Affairs, as well as Commissioner of Media and Entertainment, provides Herb the opportunity to have a wide-ranging discussion on the NYC’s efforts adapting to post-prohibition cannabis.
Our Licensee Highlight segment features Sohan Bashar, owner of Silk Road NYC, an adult-use cannabis dispensary in Jamaica, Queens, NY. Sohan shares his deeply personal story as a Muslim, Bangladeshi, husband and father of two. Sohan discusses his path to receiving a New York State Conditional Adult-Use Retail Dispensary license; “a dream come true”, giving rise to this episode’s title.
Joint Session: Diverse Voices in NYS Cannabis is produced by Herb Barbot, with additional production and engineering by Matt Patterson, with Rebecca Malpica producing our digital marketing/social media.
Please contact us at herb.jointsession@gmail.com if you have any questions or comments, including topics to cover.
If you’re enjoying the show, leave us a rating and review on your favorite podcast platform. It helps new listeners find the show.
What is Joint Session: Diverse Voices in NYS Cannabis?
Joint Session is your go-to source for the latest cannabis news shaping the New York market. Hosted by Herb Barbot, Esq., the first Director of Operations at the NYS Office of Cannabis Management, this podcast delivers expert insights, breaking developments, and in-depth conversations with the industry’s most influential voices.
From policymakers and legislators to business leaders, licensees, and advocates, Joint Session brings you exclusive interviews with those shaping the future of cannabis in New York and beyond. Plus, we keep you informed with key national and international cannabis updates.
Whether you're an industry professional, an advocate, or just curious about the evolving landscape, Joint Session delivers factual, insightful, and digestible information to help you stay ahead of the curve. Tune in for high-level discussions, straight talk, and expert perspectives you won’t find anywhere else.
Speaker 1:
Welcome to joint session, Diverse Voices in New York State Cannabis, where you hear from policy makers, legislators, thought leaders, licensees, advocates, and others interested in the state of the New York cannabis market. In this episode, I speak with New York City Council Member Julie Menon. Council Member Menon represents New York City's District Five, which covers the Upper East Side, East Harlem, Roosevelt Island, Carnegie Hill, and Yorkville. Council Member Menon's broad history serving New York City residents as the city's twenty twenty Census Director, commissioner of consumer affairs, as well as commissioner of media and entertainment, gives us the opportunity to have a wide ranging discussion on New York City's efforts adapting to post prohibition cannabis. Our licensee highlights segment features Sohan Bashar, owner of Silk Road NYC, an adult use cannabis dispensary in Jamaica, Queens.
Speaker 1:
Sohan shares his deeply personal story as a Muslim Bangladeshi husband and father of two. Sohan discusses his path to receiving a New York State conditional adult use retail dispensary license, a dream come true, giving rise to this episode's title. We skipped the release date after releasing both parts of our special two part episode, High Hopes and The Glunt Truth. I, again, wanna thank my former OCM colleagues, Aaron Gettleman, Ben Sheridan, and Matt Greenberg for joining me in that discussion. I have received a number of comments from listeners appreciative of the insights provided.
Speaker 1:
I am also appreciative of the listeners who have gone back to some of our earlier episodes. Okay. Now let's take a spin around the news. A federal court has ruled in favor of a cannabis consuming gun owner. The US fifth circuit court of appeals, one of the most conservative federal appeals courts in The US, ruled in late August that the federal ban on gun ownership for cannabis consumers is flawed.
Speaker 1:
A woman named Paola Connolly, who was charged for possessing firearms and ammunition as an unlawful user of a controlled substance, argued that the charge was unconstitutional as applied to her under the second amendment. The court agreed and wrote that our history and tradition may support some limits on a presently intoxicated person's right to carry a weapon, but they do not support disarming a sober person based solely on past substance usage. The court went even further by stating, nor contrary to what the government contends, do restrictions on the mentally ill or more generalized traditions of disarming dangerous persons apply to nonviolent occasional drug users when a sound mind. Earlier this summer, the US Supreme Court reversed this same district in a second amendment case holding that a ban on firearms is permissible under domestic violence restraining orders. In Maryland, governor Wes Moore announced that Maryland cannabis administration director Will Tholberg will leave his post on December 4.
Speaker 1:
So if anyone knows anyone looking for a cannabis job, researchers from UC San Diego and NYU conducted a study that aimed to examine the associations between cannabis use recency, frequency, severity, and workplace absenteeism. Researchers analyzed the data from the twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two national survey on drug use and health, which included more than 46,000 adults employed full time in The US. Results show that cannabis consumption, even infrequent, was linked to an uptick in both missing work due to illness or injury and skipping work, with that relationship being even more pronounced for people who met the bar for cannabis use disorder. Individuals with recent and frequent cannabis use are disproportionately prone to workplace absenteeism, researchers concluded. Results support the enforcement of workplace drug prevention and treatment policies.
Speaker 1:
This study was published in the American Journal of Preventive Medicine. The city and county of Denver released its twenty twenty four annual cannabis report, which comes on the heels of the city and the states entering its second decade of legal cannabis. Colorado and Denver regulated cannabis before intentional emphasis was placed on equity. That comes through in the report. Denver has a lot to be proud of for what was accomplished as the first legalized recreational cannabis market in America.
Speaker 1:
And over the past decade, we find ways to continue to improve, Mayor Mike Johnston wrote in a letter included in the report. Johnston highlighted that Denver has started to provide exclusive licensing opportunities and reduce licensing fees to applicants who have been disproportionately impacted by cannabis prohibition. While this is a major accomplishment, we will continue to evaluate our social equity efforts and make changes in our regulations when it can make a difference in truly accomplishing the full promise of legalization, he continued. Another thing that stood out, cannabis is no longer a growing industry in the city. Over the past five years, medical marijuana licenses in the city have been in decline with no growth years since 2017, the report notes.
Speaker 1:
Conversely, retail marijuana licenses have remained mostly flat over the past five years. Cannabis use and driving has been one of the items we focused on in this show. See episode eight, Chuck d on cannabis and traffic safety. Now the National Institute of Standards and Technology, known as NIST, is spearheading a study on cannabis and impaired driving. While states continue to legalize, no universal test for impairment exists, like with alcohols, blood alcohol content, or BAC breathalyzer.
Speaker 1:
Typically, as we discussed on that episode, specially trained law enforcement officers known as drug recognition experts are left to decide. This is potentially paradigm changing, said NIST Kavita Juridge in a statement. If successful, it could pave the way for on the spot detection of recent cannabis use by law enforcement. The study is in collaboration with the University of Colorado at Boulder. However, don't expect policies to change overnight.
Speaker 1:
The study is expected to take a few years. In 2022, voters in North Dakota rejected legalization at the ballot box. Last month, North Dakota Secretary of State Michael Howe announced that enough signatures had again been gathered to put a new measure on the ballot this year. The measure, known as measure five, represents a unique opportunity for North Dakota to diversify its economy and alleviate some of the burden on our law enforcement and judicial systems. Steve Backen, chair of New Economic Frontier, to campaign behind the measure set in an announcement.
Speaker 1:
North Dakota now joins South Dakota and Florida with adult use on the ballot this year. Last year, lawmakers in Delaware legalized cannabis for adult use. On August 19, the Delaware Office of the Marijuana Commissioner opened its application window for adult use licenses. The office announced that a 25 licenses are up for grabs. Finally, closer to home, at the August, New York City mayor Eric Adams destroyed more than four tons of seized illegal cannabis products as inspectors of the New York City sheriff's joint compliance task force shut down and sealed more than 1,000 illegal cannabis and smoke shops since the start of the city's Operation Padlock to Protect nearly four months ago.
Speaker 1:
Also, at the August, the New York Post reported that the state's cannabis regulator had made zero progress to increase its staffing level months after governor Kathy Hochul began tearing the agency apart. Felicia Reid, acting executive director of the Office of Cannabis Management, said in an interview that the understaffed agency now employs 180 people. According to The Post, that's the same amount of staffers OCM employed in April. As I've said previously, right now, I'd guess OCM may be even below that 180 number. I'd like to thank Cannabis Wire for that news.
Speaker 1:
Subscribe at CannabisWire.com. That's one word, CannabisWire.com. Our first guest in this episode is New York City Council Member and chair of the committee on consumer and worker protection, Julie Menon. Council member Menon represents District 5 and also serves on the health committee as well as the committee on parks and recreation among a few others. Hello, Julie.
Speaker 2:
Hi, Herb. Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1:
Oh, no, my pleasure. So can you first just tell us a little bit about the district that you represent and then also some of the background, some of the other, roles that you've played in New York City government?
Speaker 2:
Well, absolutely. I'm honored to represent Council District Five, which covers parts of the East Side Of Manhattan, parts of East Harlem, Midtown Yorkville, and Roosevelt Island, and I am in my third year in the city council. Prior to serving in the city council, I served as commissioner of the Department of Consumer Affairs, as well as serving as commissioner of media and entertainment for the city. And then recently, I served as the city's census director in 2020.
Speaker 1:
Now lots of attention has been paid to the Upper West Side, when it comes to the unlicensed shops. And there's been a lot of news that has covered that that area. Now what have you seen on the Upper East Side?
Speaker 2:
Well, it's really interesting because the Upper East Side, we have some of the same issues that the West Side has faced in terms of these unlicensed smoke shops. Our office has been flooded with complaints from people, particularly families, because let's be honest, a lot of these unlicensed smoke shops are marketing products to very young kids. Mhmm. These products, by the way, do many of them don't even contain pot at all. Like, many of them are chemicals and other adulterated products that are incredibly harmful for young children.
Speaker 2:
And so one of the approaches that I've tried to take as a council member is in working in collaboration with the sheriff's office,
Speaker 1:
Mhmm.
Speaker 2:
We work to shut these stores down because it's completely unacceptable. This unlicensed market is undercutting the legal market. It's bad all the way around, and we need to address it with very strong enforcement action.
Speaker 1:
And as you know, in April, the the New York state legislature amended a number of laws to give localities more authority. Now have you seen any improvements on the Upper East Side since, the mayor began his operation, Padlock to Protect?
Speaker 2:
Absolutely. We've seen an enormous impact, and I have to say I was one of the elected officials who pushed very hard for the state to give us the legal authority. Mhmm. Really going back to my time as commissioner of the Department of Consumer Affairs, in 2015, we had a similar problem with k two, which is basically synthetic marijuana. Many stores are marketing it to young kids in colorful packages with cartoon characters on them.
Speaker 2:
And what k two was is it wasn't marijuana at all. It was basically synthetic chemicals, which were causing seizures and other issues in young children. So now that the state has finally given the city the legal authority to shut these stores down, I am seeing an enormous difference. So, for example, there was a store in my district called High Supply, and I had gone in there a couple months ago with the sheriff. We did an enforcement action, but then, you know, weeks later, they opened up again.
Speaker 1:
Mhmm.
Speaker 2:
Now with the new authority that the state has given the city, we actually were able to padlock for good high supply so that it's no longer preying on young kids with products that are really harmful to them.
Speaker 1:
And one of the things that has been reported is that some of these stores are preemptively closing. Are you seeing any of that?
Speaker 2:
We are seeing some of that because they know what's coming. Before the city had the legal authority to shut them down, they were basically just flouting the rules. But now that they know that they're gonna be padlocked, we are seeing some of that happen. And we have to remember that these unlicensed smoke shops not only are dangerous for young kids and and others, but they're absolutely undercutting the legal market. And so when the state legalized marijuana, the whole idea was to come up with an equitable program that was really focused on communities that had been harmed for generations, by some of the drug laws.
Speaker 2:
And so that really was not happening if you had close to 2,000 of these unlicensed smoke shops, which were undercutting the legal market. So it's just incredibly important that we shut these stores down for a whole variety of reasons.
Speaker 1:
Alright. So, you know, let's go to the work on the on the city council. Now you serve on a number of major committees. You're on health, you're on parks and recreation, sanitation, children and youth, civil service and labor, and for our discussion, most importantly, you chair the committee on consumer and worker protection, which has jurisdiction over New York City's Department Of Consumer Affairs and the Office of Nightlife. So as chair of that committee, what do you think so far about the city's efforts to support, you know, establish a cannabis market?
Speaker 2:
Well, I think the city, look, has done certain steps by creating, basically an office within the city agency of small business services to deal with these issues, but I think they need to quite frankly go a lot further.
Speaker 1:
And and that's Cannabis NYC?
Speaker 2:
Yes. Correct. Sorry. That's Cannabis NYC initiative, which is basically the city entity that is housed within the Department of Small Business to address city issues and to make it easier for these legal businesses to open. But I think we need to do more.
Speaker 2:
So one of the things that I believe we need to do is there needs to be a marketing campaign specifically a bill, and I've got I actually introduced this bill, that would require SBS and the Department of Health to create an advertising campaign to warn, you know, young children and families about the dangers of unlicensed product. That's exactly what we did around k two. When I was commissioner of consumer affairs Mhmm. We launched an advertising campaign saying k two is not marijuana, and we mailed more than 9,000 postcards to cigarette retail dealer licensees to inform them that, look, no matter what you call it, k two is unsafe and illegal. And we need to do a similar marketing campaign here because we wanna warn young people and families that whose kids are going into these unlicensed stores buying these adulterated products that have really harmful chemicals.
Speaker 2:
We wanna make sure that we warn them about that. Mhmm. But in terms of what the city has done right, obviously, with the new cannabis NYC initiative, they've committed to allocating over $20,000,000 for the next three years to support these businesses. So I think that is a very positive step in the right direction. And the economic development corporation, EDC, also established a 20 to $30,000,000 cannabis NYC loan fund, which basically will provide below market rate loans to early stage cannabis businesses that are run by social and economic equity applicants.
Speaker 2:
So I I think those two steps that the city have done is definitely a step in the right direction.
Speaker 1:
And that last step that you mentioned was just recently announced by New York City Economic Development and the Small Business Services Agency. And it's, I wouldn't say, modeled after, but similar to what the state did. So my question with this particular program is, you know, has the council been involved in this process, and what kind of oversight can we expect over this loan fund to make sure that the same complaints that we've received on the state side are not received on the city side?
Speaker 2:
Well, that's an excellent point. I mean, one of the biggest powers that the council has, of course, is our oversight function where we have oversight over every single city agency. You know, a lot of New Yorkers don't realize that, and they also don't know that we have subpoena powers. So there's a lot that we can do utilizing our oversight. We need to make sure that social equity is at the forefront of a lot of these decisions in terms of the loan fund because we wanna make sure, and this was the whole point of the state law that legalized marijuana in the first place is to make sure that those communities that were overly harmed by very tough drug laws are basically at the forefront of these businesses, and so we wanna be supporting them.
Speaker 2:
And access to capital is one of the most difficult, issues that any small business owner faces. So making sure the loan fund is doing the critical work it needs to to get these funds out to support these businesses. So we will be able to use our oversight function. I used to actually chair the small business committee.
Speaker 1:
Mhmm.
Speaker 2:
Now as you mentioned, I share consumer, protection, but the small business committee will, of course, have oversight over the way in which these loans are being disseminated so we can make sure that they are being disseminated fairly and also quickly at the same time.
Speaker 1:
And that the terms of the loan are equitable.
Speaker 2:
Absolutely. And that goes without saying because the last thing we wanna do is see any of these small businesses harmed by unfair loan terms. And so that goes without saying. That absolutely has to happen.
Speaker 1:
What planning is the council doing to prepare for what can be expected to be a a tourism industry, related to cannabis to be able to take full advantage of the illegal to safe on-site cannabis consumption when that's allowed by the state.
Speaker 2:
Well, this is a very good point. And, you know, I have a background actually, in working on a lot of tourism, issues. When I served as commissioner of media and entertainment for the city, I had a seat on the executive board of the city's tourism arm, which at the time was called NYC and company. And so, during my tenure as media and entertainment commissioner, I created the office of nightlife actually after visiting Amsterdam because Amsterdam was really at the forefront of having a nightlife mayor creating an office of nightlife. And so in visiting Amsterdam and seeing what they were able to do, from an economic standpoint, we decided to create the office of nightlife, and that was housed within originally the office of media and entertainment.
Speaker 2:
We have to remember that the nightlife industry, and I did studies on this when I was commissioner, so using those studies, we showed back in 2019 when I was commissioner that the nightlife industry created over was over a $35,000,000,000 industry for the city of New York creating over 300,000 jobs. So we wanna make sure that the cannabis industry is definitely a part of that as it is in the city of Amsterdam.
Speaker 1:
Mhmm.
Speaker 2:
Recently, I passed a bill that the mayor signed which actually moves the office of nightlife from the office of media and entertainment now to small business services. And the reason that I felt that was important is we're now at the point with the office of nightlife, it has been around now for a couple of years, it makes sense to integrate it within the work that the department of small business services is doing so that we're actually helping a lot of these nightlife businesses with technical assistance and other assistance that small business services basically, assistance that small business services basically, present. So I'm very excited about that bill, and my understanding, from Cannabis NYC is that they plan to make the city a global hub for the cannabis industry. And obviously, integrating legal cannabis into the city's tourism and nightlife and hospitality sectors will indeed help to generate economic growth and tax revenue and and basically position New York City into that field.
Speaker 1:
The estimates for the industry on the low end are about 4 to $5,000,000,000 in sales a year within the next couple of years. So assuming on the low end of that that about a mil a billion dollars of that will be, in New York City, That could potentially lead to about 40,000,000 additional funds for underserved communities. How would you like to see that money spent?
Speaker 2:
Well, right now, we are facing a real budget crisis in the City Of New York. We spend close to $4,000,000,000 a year on issues regarding, the migrant crisis in terms of housing and shelter and food. And, you know, it's really creating very difficult times budget wise in terms of the city. So the additional funding that you mentioned, additional revenue that will clearly be generated by the cannabis industry is very important for New York City's economy. And, frankly, what I would like to see is focus on affordable child care.
Speaker 2:
The lack of affordable child care for the majority of New Yorkers is an unacceptable crisis. The average amount of child care is about $20,000 a year, which is simply unaffordable for the vast majority of families. Last year, the council passed a package of bills I created to put New York City on a path to universal child care, but we need to be doing so much more. And so by generating this additional revenue, which we would be doing, making sure that working families can access affordable and accessible child care is at the top of my list of budget priorities for what I'd love to see happen.
Speaker 1:
The marijuana regulation and taxation act was unique in a number of respects. In one respect, what made it different than other, statues across the country is that it really centralized authority at the state level. A lot of other jurisdictions shared authority with the localities. Should New York City and other localities in New York State have more authority under the MRTA in your opinion?
Speaker 2:
Absolutely. I think one of the real challenges and the reason that all these unlicensed smoke shops popped up was because the city didn't have the jurisdiction. And so I can't tell you how many times over the last year, constituents or other New Yorkers have said to me, I don't understand it. Why are they are there all these unlicensed smoke shops, and why isn't the city doing anything about it? And then I'd have to explain, well, actually, the state, you know, at that time had not given the city the legal authority.
Speaker 2:
Now that has changed.
Speaker 1:
Mhmm.
Speaker 2:
It's an enormous issue. I mean, the impacts are being felt in New York City of these unlicensed smoke shops, and a lot of these operations are fly by night. And in fact, a couple months ago, I was in my district and I was walking down the street with my six year old daughter, and she said, oh, look, mommy, a new, cookie store opened up. And I looked across the street, and it was one of these unlicensed smoke shops that, you know, had, like, rainbow colors, and it it looked like a cookie or cupcake store. Like, honestly, like, you could not tell the difference, and that's the problem.
Speaker 2:
These stores are trying to lure young people in. Oftentimes, they're selling like potato chips and cookies and other foods that, you know, nine, 10, 11, 12 year old kids wanna go in and buy, and then they go in there and then they see the other products. So absolutely, the the the original legislation needed to give the city more authority. This has finally happened. It's it's quite frankly really late in the game for that to have happened because now we have this problem.
Speaker 2:
The good news is we now have a legal authority or the mayor does to shut them down, and the sheriff's office is going from store to store and padlocking them. But as I say to people in my neighborhood who are complaining about this, it can't happen overnight. You have close to 2,000 of these stores, so you're not gonna wake up tomorrow and see all 2,000 of them eradicated. It's gonna take some time, but that is happening, and that is obviously just a step in the right direction. It's so incredibly important that we do this.
Speaker 2:
There's obviously a lot more work that we need to do, but we are seeing some of these stores close and we'll start to see a lot more of them.
Speaker 1:
Are there any other changes that you would recommend, the state implement, whether it's the, the agency or the legislature? Well, absolutely.
Speaker 2:
I mean, as I said before, I have this bill, that creates a public awareness campaign because I I do think it's important that both parents and children understand that if you go into one of these unlicensed smoke shops, you don't know exactly what you're buying.
Speaker 1:
Mhmm.
Speaker 2:
There have been studies on the products that are being sold. They've found harmful contaminants, pesticides, heavy metals, salmonella, e coli in a lot of the purchased products. So as I was saying, when we faced the k two pandemic, which was an enormous problem when I was commissioner back in 2015
Speaker 1:
Mhmm.
Speaker 2:
I mean, there were there were young people who were dying from k two. I mean, this was a very, very serious thing. So while thankfully we have not seen deaths, yet from these unlicensed smoke shops, I have no doubt that there are children who've ingested these products and have faced, you know, real health consequences as a result. So I do believe that we need to do a public awareness campaign warning both young people and parents about the dangers of purchasing these products because they look to the average kid, they look fine. You know, you've got cartoon characters on them.
Speaker 2:
They're in colorful brackets. They look like they're candy, but these are not candy. These are harmful products, and we wanna make sure that young people are warned about that, and we need to be far more proactive about that.
Speaker 1:
And even on the legal side, while the products are tested, you know, messaging around safekeeping of your cannabis is an important message.
Speaker 2:
Oh, absolutely. That goes without saying. And I think, look, this is now a new industry for the city and the state, and there'll be lessons learned moving forward. And we need to make sure also that we're using best practices because clearly we've got a lot of other states that have licensed marijuana, and there's a lot that we can learn, from them. But I will tell you in talking to elected officials in other states where this was done, they were surprised that the state had not given the city the legal powers that they need.
Speaker 2:
I mean, it's not a surprise that suddenly unlicensed stores are gonna open up if this was not addressed properly from the beginning.
Speaker 1:
Any other messages that you would have for the state, whether it's the legislature or the agency?
Speaker 2:
Well, I definitely wanna see proper coordination between the state and the city. I mean, I've just been in different governmental positions for a very long time, and so unfortunately, I've I've seen it all. And oftentimes, I've seen where there's not good coordination. You've got, like, a lot of different players here. You have, obviously, the state.
Speaker 2:
You've got the city, but you have a myriad alphabet soup of different agencies that are dealing with this new industry, as well as the unlicensed smoke shops. And when you have an alphabet soup of agencies Mhmm. It can oftentimes lead to finger pointing and dysfunction. Collaboration between the city and state on this moving forward.
Speaker 1:
Okay. Well, at this moment, given the increased enforcement that's going on, given the changes that we've, seen and read about in Albany, what's your sense of the future of the the industry?
Speaker 2:
Well, I think there's an enormous future for the industry. I think we're starting to see that. I mean, our first challenge was getting this unlicensed industry under control, and now with the new legal authority, we are starting to do that. But that really stymied the opening of the legal businesses, and it really undercut them quite frankly. You know?
Speaker 2:
And so that is why we need to work at lightning speed. What we need also just to shut these unlicensed loan sharks down under, you know, any circumstances they need to be shut down. But once that happens, then I think there really is a significant future for the legal businesses because it will be clear those are legal businesses. There will be no confusion as there exists right now. Because I'm asked that all the time.
Speaker 2:
People say, well, wait a minute. How can I tell what's a legal business from an illegal one? You know? So so once we shut these illegal ones down, it will be very clear. And then I think the future is bright for those businesses because they will not be undercut anymore by close to 2,000 unlicensed businesses.
Speaker 1:
Okay. Well, thank you. My last question, What is your favorite munchies snack?
Speaker 2:
Popcorn.
Speaker 1:
Popcorn. Okay. Well, thank you, council member Julie Mannen. You've been terrific. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:
Best of luck to you in District 5, and we'll be following these, these bills.
Speaker 2:
Thank you so much, Herb. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1:
In our licensee highlights segment, I speak with Sohan Bashar, owner of Silk Road NYC, a dispensary in Jamaica, Queens. Sohan is a conditional adult use retail licensee, and at 34, has spent over twenty years in the cannabis industry. Welcome, Sohan.
Speaker 3:
Thank you very much. Very happy to be a part of your podcast. It's a true honor.
Speaker 1:
Oh, well, thank you very much. It's very nice of you. Now first of all, I wanted to say congratulations on the opening of the store back in February. But, also, I think more importantly, congratulations to you and your wife on, on a new baby to go with your two year old.
Speaker 3:
Thank you so much. Yep. We welcomed Marcelino on June 3, and she's healthy and happy, and we are too.
Speaker 1:
So now I wanted to ask, one of the questions that I had, you know, coming into, the the industry was, would people that were, you know, legacy operators, would they leave? Would they be interested in coming into the legal market? Now that's your background. So can you tell us, like, why leave legacy and, and enter this complicated, compliance riddled industry?
Speaker 3:
Oh, well, that's an amazing question and very you know, there's many parts to this question. I just wanna start off with honesty, and I would say that the black market or gray market, what have you, was a much easier to navigate market in my opinion. Obviously, there's dangers and, you know, having to watch your back and
Speaker 1:
Mhmm.
Speaker 3:
The potential to be arrested. But, you know, there wasn't regulations, there wasn't compliance, and there wasn't, how would you say, like, being overtaxed. So that is a very big difference. And, you know, people are looking for fast money and just to get rich quick overnight kind of thing, then, yeah, that's the lane for them to, you know, take credit and sell it and, you know, make the money overnight, but this is a whole different approach to wanting to sell cannabis. I've been, you know, doing this for more than twenty years.
Speaker 3:
So I felt that I needed to bring my experience to the market to not only benefit the market
Speaker 1:
Mhmm.
Speaker 3:
But benefit the public that would otherwise be affected, you know, with somebody else coming in, taking advantage, MSOs, you know, what have you is there. Mhmm. So I wanted to be there to make my impression on the market. On top of that, one of my main reasons was, you know, the birth of my first daughter in, 2022. And, you know, the MRTA had just been signed.
Speaker 3:
They had the AUCCs coming out. And, in a couple months, there there was going to be application rounds coming in the August to, I believe, October window of that year. I was always interested in this market, always had my hands in this market. So when we did find out the MRTA was enacted, I looked up who was in charge on Google. It said the OCM.
Speaker 3:
I got their phone number. I got their email, and I contacted them before applications were even available that, hey. You know, I'm I'm such and such. I have these properties. I have this distribution network.
Speaker 3:
I would like to, you know, enter the market, and I could bring potentially this much monthly into You know, all of that. I put all the cards on the table. At the time, I asked to be a cultivator. The OCM emailed me back saying, you know, unfortunately, you have a disqualifying factor, which is a felony, yet you would qualify for the, applications going forward. You know?
Speaker 3:
And they followed up and sent me through their newsletters that, hey. This card application is coming. And I saw that, and I I fit every requirement. It's almost as if it was made just for people like me.
Speaker 1:
And it was. And I remember you and I meeting about, fifteen, sixteen months ago at an event with that first round of licensees of conditional use retail dispensary licensees, and you were one of those. And in a very real way, you are, you know, if I may say, like, the poster child, right, for what the agency was envisioning. People that were, you know, that had a qualifying conviction, people, hopefully, that would be able to do this, you know, relatively on their own. And I know so so, you know, we'll get into a little bit of of the Dansley discussion, but I remember you saying to me, you know, you were planning on doing this on your own.
Speaker 1:
Right? You were gonna find the space. You're gonna build out a space. You were gonna open a dispensary completely with your own resources.
Speaker 3:
For sure. I actually remember that conversation, to this day. That was amazing. Yep. I met you.
Speaker 3:
We were right next to, Tushar Malik. It was the card kickoff, I believe. And, I remember shaking your hand, and I'm like, hey. I'm I'm gonna open up very soon in Jamaica Avenue. I'm gonna have my own place.
Speaker 3:
I'm gonna do it on my own. I was so excited. And, you know, I know everybody was also telling you their news, so it it might have been hard to remember. But, you know, I now I I've like, I'm sure we both remember and and and, you know, how serious I was where it's like, I literally meant what I said and I did it. You know?
Speaker 1:
And congratulations. So let's go back a little bit and talk about the DASNY relationship. You were offered the opportunity to work with DASNY and have a DASNY, dormitory authority, built out site. So what happened there?
Speaker 3:
So we were provisionally licensed on January twenty fifth of twenty twenty three. And within four days of me receiving that provisional license through email, we received a an email from Gasney offering us the location of 16203 Jamaica Avenue. And I essentially, I live 10 blocks away. I live on 172. So, you know, I I felt it was very geared towards me.
Speaker 3:
I did appreciate that they thought of me, and I, you know, I was higher on the queue, so they offered it to us as soon as we got it. I'm very, like, you know, nitty gritty about details and deals and what I sign and what I borrow and things like that. I'm Muslim. Mhmm. We are already taught to steer clear of interest bearing loans unless we really, really have to, and the interest there was already higher than 10% as I recall.
Speaker 3:
So that was one thing. The second thing was that I just felt that if they had proper communication with the community, it could have been a better choice of location. I wasn't really into where they had chosen the location. Mhmm. And when I did discover that there was no parking there, you know, it just kind of ruined my, you know, sense of safety and security because, like, I operate for, you know, like I was saying, more than two decades in the gray market here.
Speaker 3:
So especially Jamaica Avenue, it was a rough place. So I wanted to be able to pull up behind and do my stocking, restocking without the public seeing anything. So that was a whole another, you know, like, a a deal breaker there. It clearly said no smoking on the lease, which I've been in trouble multiple, multiple times by in dormitories in college for smoking where it said no smoking. So I kind of just learned my lesson there as well.
Speaker 3:
So anything that says no smoking, I I I go away. And, you know, the rent I felt was almost double as high as what I wanted to pay. And, the final thing was the the build out details. They just kind of gave us a a an estimate of what it would cost monthly of the total cost of the build out without any kind of, you know, like, a detail on what's going on here, who's gonna be building this, what input I have. And, also, Dazny was essentially going to be my landlord, and then I was going to be a sublease.
Speaker 3:
And it kind of felt like they could do whatever they wanted to me at that point. So, you know, all these signs were just telling me to do it on my own or go elsewhere, and my wife really did not like this spot as well. So then I began the journey of, hey. You know, maybe this isn't gonna work out for me. Maybe I need to find my own place, and I did go about finding my own place.
Speaker 3:
I found a place on Queens Boulevard right across of a courthouse where I was prosecuted, you know, almost eight years ago and sentenced to, a sentence on on Rikers Island. So I essentially wanted to be right across the street selling weed legally.
Speaker 1:
A bit of irony, I guess, in a way.
Speaker 3:
Right? The ultimate middle finger, basically. But
Speaker 1:
During your discussions with Dazni, right, you're saying, you know, I wanna do business with you, but, you know, this is unacceptable. This location is unacceptable. What was their response?
Speaker 3:
Oh, honestly, that kind of, I I forgot to mention those details. In that first email, they just literally gave us seven days to decide. They just wrote, you have seven days to show your interest. If you don't show your interest, then it will be showed to the next person on the queue.
Speaker 1:
Wow. So it was a a take it or leave it proposition.
Speaker 3:
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. We didn't even get we weren't even offered a chance to physically see the property or or a date to for us to come see it. Nothing. Yeah.
Speaker 3:
You know?
Speaker 1:
So so now you you've mentioned a couple of times, you know, that you've you've been, in the gray market for, you know, over two decades. Mhmm. Now you you're you're a young man, so you started, how old?
Speaker 3:
Well, I'm 33, about to be 34. First time I smoked weed was 11 years old, and I'm selling it at 12 in junior high school. And by 13, I was more or less smoking every day. And it didn't affect my school work whatsoever. I had excellent grades throughout junior high school, high school, full scholarship to university, the whole situation.
Speaker 1:
You were in college, in university, when you were arrested. So what was you know? And I haven't really talked about this with a lot of the, the the card recipients.
Speaker 3:
Mhmm.
Speaker 1:
But, you know, just, I think, more because, you know, you've done this on your own. You're you're you're a young man. Like, what was that like? You know, you were focused on school, obviously. You were doing well.
Speaker 1:
What was that like to happen in the middle of, you know, attempting to get on with your life?
Speaker 3:
I was straight up straight a student, and I just was doing that to make money. And, when these things happened, it pretty much had me like, I went from the dean's list to basically Rikers Island. The very next semester, it was a very eye opening thing. I missed a lot of classes, courses. And, besides that, you know, the signs were always there.
Speaker 3:
Like, I, you know, I would get I would have excellent grades, but get kicked out of, dorming because I was, like, my room would smell like weed or or they found a joint in my dorm.
Speaker 1:
Where were you at school?
Speaker 3:
This was Stony Brook University.
Speaker 1:
Okay. Very good school.
Speaker 3:
Yep. Yep. And we had had a full scholarship there.
Speaker 1:
What were you majoring in? I mean, did did you see yourself, you know, graduating and and leaving the cannabis, as a money source? Did you did you always see this as part of your future?
Speaker 3:
Honestly, right. Right. I kind of always knew that I was gonna stick with the weed, and, pretty much, I was there going to school and studying health science. Every brown person's parents wants them to be a doctor. You know?
Speaker 3:
So and I had excellent grades, so they kept pushing me and pushing me. And I just like, during, like, let's say, when I was taking, like, anatomy, That's kind of what really opened my eyes to I'd rather sell weed than than memorize all these finger nail bones and things like that. And I see myself succeeding in the future selling weed more, like, visually in my head than I can Uh-huh. Visualize myself being a doctor and waiting until I'm age 30 or 31 to finally make my first paycheck and then deal with four or five years of loan repayments and then to, you know, get a house, you know, and all all these things. And from what you saw, I'm I'm 33 now, you know, and I own plenty of properties.
Speaker 3:
I have two kids, a wife, and, you know, we have this business. So it's almost like, you know, how, like, you know, how Amazon and, the Apple, Steve Jobs, they all, like, dropped out and and started their business out of their garage, and they end up being more successful. It was kinda sort of like that. And, you know, all the signs were there. You know?
Speaker 3:
I just knew at some point that I'm gonna have to decide. And the the circumstances kind of just, you know, helped me to make that decision that, hey. You know, this is the path that you're going. This is obviously really successful. And even getting caught up, like, you know, in an off campus dorm room.
Speaker 3:
And, basically, the cops coming in and seeing weed, you know, on the table, like, all of America has out now. Right? You know, just some weed on the table. You guys are rolling up. They use that to arrest us and take us all back to the precinct and then, you know, executed a search warrant to open a safe and then finding all the party drugs that, you know, college kids do and then charging me for it.
Speaker 3:
You know? And let's say there was, like, a 68 grams of a substance there. The police wrote a 68 ounces to, you know, oversubstantiate the charge. So when me and my girlfriend, who is now my wife, we when we went before the court in arraignment, they ended up charging us for four and a half, kilos basically.
Speaker 1:
So your wife was caught up with you. Yep. Well, your girlfriend, who is not your wife.
Speaker 3:
Yep. Just for being there. And that also showed a lot, Neno, because she could have cooperated. She could have removed herself from the case. She did no such thing and wrote it out to the end.
Speaker 3:
And, you know, her bill was 300 k. My bill was 300 k. Her lawyer was, like, more than $20. You know? So, you know, she she did right by me, and I did right by by her, and, you know, it it worked out.
Speaker 3:
And I eventually I did take the charge once they removed her from the case and once they reduced it to what it was and not what they said it was. So that that was another eye opener. And in in jail at the time when I was in Rikers Island, that's kind of where I decided that, yes, I do wanna go back to school and try my way towards, at the time, I wanna do to do computer science. So I did go back for a couple semesters and get some a's, but I also just promised myself that I would never sell drugs again, that if I was to sell anything, that it would only be cannabis and other products that make people happy and bring positivity to the community. You know, instead of, you know, what I had just come through and went through was, you know, or selling people cocaine and selling people painkillers and, you know, everything that's bad for them.
Speaker 1:
So, Sohan, you you you mentioned, once or twice that you you were Muslim in Bangladeshi. Mhmm. How has the community reacted to Silk Road NYC?
Speaker 3:
Right. So right up the block from my store, two blocks up, that is an avenue that's been renamed Little Bangladesh. You know? And I'm I'm from Bangladesh, and it is a very, very, strict community. They you know?
Speaker 3:
So everything is just hush-hush, especially with the cannabis. They don't even like liquor stores around the area. You know? So it it was a very, very tough conversation. As soon as I did open, you know, like, the pastor, like, basically, the imam at the mosque, I know he had a sermon saying that, yeah, you know, we have brothers now selling cannabis.
Speaker 3:
You know, be wary and, you know, this is not good for us. Things like that was how it was initially received, And, my dad's a lifetime member at that mosque. So we went and had these, you know, engaging conversations where, you know, hey. We're trying to bring positivity to the community. You guys are being sold pork laced gelatin based products at, you know, delis and convenience stores without knowing.
Speaker 3:
And we're here to say that we are halal friendly and that we, you know, we don't even carry, like, you know, even meat gelatin kind of products. Like, we're vegan friendly, halal friendly. We wanna bring safety and security to the community. So that conversation definitely happened. We then began to be received a little better, but, you know, it's still, like, you know, we're you know, if they have, like, a, like, a block party or something like that, a nonprofit a local nonprofit that's Bengali.
Speaker 3:
Like, they would support us, but, you know, like, they would say, hey. You know, just, you know, have, like, a a banner with your property management business or your vaporizer business. We don't really want to, you know, say that we're we're in support of selling cannabis right now. So that's kinda how it goes. And the the local, like, you know, like, people who I call my aunts and and things like that, they come through, and they're like, oh my god.
Speaker 3:
This is Haram. This is Haram.
Speaker 1:
But, you
Speaker 3:
know, we're we're everyday working on that communication and that conversation just to further it and further it.
Speaker 1:
That's great. Great job. Now you said that New York, has one of the best legalization rollouts, you know, anywhere in the country. So what why do you say that?
Speaker 3:
I really feel that New York is the best. You know? And I'm I'm from here, and I've been to California. I have property in California. I've seen how they do it there.
Speaker 3:
I've seen how they did in Colorado and all, you know, all these other states and the way they rolled out the social equity here. And the the justice involved, more specifically, the way they rolled it out was, you know, what, leading in the world, in my opinion. You know? Like, someone like me who, you know, like I was telling you, I want to go to school for to be a doctor and be licensed and, you know or later, I, you know, wanted to do computer science or anything like that. You know, just getting a, a felony conviction is a disqualifying factor for all of those professions.
Speaker 1:
Mhmm.
Speaker 3:
You know? So so for them to, you know, create a pathway that I get licensed and that I'm able to sell, we do what I love that I've been doing for twenty years and and not have to watch my back and provide for my family and it's all legal is beyond a dream come true.
Speaker 1:
Alright. Well, I just wanted to say, you know, from the conversation that we first had, I'm thrilled that you were able to, you know, pull this together and on your own, together with your with your wife, open this door and start this next chapter on your career. So is there anything that, that you wanna say, you know, to end, our conversation today?
Speaker 3:
I wanna pretty much invite you to our dispensary anytime you are free to come take a look and see how we did it actually, you know, ourselves. Like, I put the tiles in. I, you know, designed what was going where. And also to, remember that first day I met you, you know, I was saying that, hey. I I want an event space on the side that I wanna be able to eventually Uh-huh.
Speaker 3:
When the consumption or limited consumption abilities come out, I want to be ready. So I also want to show you that, you know, how we are preparing for that kind of thing. Currently, it's a, separate business on the side of my dispensary that I built out just ready for the day when that is allowed. You know?
Speaker 1:
Right. Where can people find out more about, Silk Road NYC?
Speaker 3:
Well, we are on Google. You can find us at silkroadnyc.com, and we are on Instagram at silkroad.nyc. Please follow us and, you know, and give us a shout. And every Friday, we're doing events like karaoke and movie nights. So, you know, feel free to come through whenever you're in the Jamaica, Queens area.
Speaker 3:
We're right next to Home Depot.
Speaker 1:
Thank you so much. Best of luck.
Speaker 3:
Thank you. Take care, and have a nice day.
Speaker 1:
Thanks for listening. We'll be back in two weeks with Tavion Crosland, equity director from the New York chapter of the Social Equity Empowerment Network, and John Bavilow, CEO of Central Processors New York, where you learn how the cannabis plant is turned into the various products that are sold in New York's dispensaries. If you're enjoying the show, please leave us a rating and review on your favorite podcast platform. It does help new listeners find the show. Joint session is produced by me, Herb Barbot, with additional production and engineering by Matt Patterson with Rebecca Malpika on digital marketing and social media.
Speaker 1:
In addition, as always, thank you to Cannabis Wire. You can find us on Instagram at joint session. Pod. That's one word, joint session. Pod, and on LinkedIn at jointsessionpodcast.