Amber Willingham - Stories That Set Us Free

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🎙️🎙️🎙️ Introducing Amber Willingham: A Trailblazing Voice in Fiction

Prepare to be captivated by the brilliance of debut author Amber Willingham, whose novel Bliss Creek invites readers on an unforgettable journey of identity, mystery, and self-discovery. Amber’s unique path—from attorney to mother to storyteller—imbues her work with a rare authenticity and depth. She expertly weaves her rich life experiences into every page, crafting a story that feels as profound as it is suspenseful.

Set in the idyllic yet enigmatic Bliss Creek, Bliss Creek explores the life of Elizabeth, a young woman who awakens with no memory of her past. Should she embrace this chance to reinvent herself or delve into the unsettling truths hidden within her lost identity? Through her struggle, Amber invites readers to ponder some of life’s deepest questions: What defines us? Are we the sum of our past, or can we truly begin anew?

Amber’s ability to combine her keen analytical skills from her legal background with her profound understanding of human relationships makes her storytelling stand out. With an engaging voice and an eye for detail, she creates a world that feels both familiar and otherworldly—a safe haven concealing the mysteries of the human soul.

Based in Katy, Texas, Amber’s life is as vibrant as her writing. She shares her home with her husband, Phil, and their four beloved rescue animals—Raleigh, Suki, April, and Kiko—and finds inspiration in the everyday joys of family life. Her debut novel is just the beginning, as Bliss Creek sets the stage for a series of stories that promise to expand this enthralling world.

Why This Conversation Matters:

Amber’s journey resonates with anyone navigating reinvention or seeking meaning in uncertain times. Her novel raises profound questions about identity, the power of self-discovery, and the narratives we construct to define ourselves.

Join me in welcoming Amber Willingham to the show as we explore the heart of Bliss Creek, dive into the art of storytelling, and uncover what it means to create a life from a blank slate. Let’s get ready for an inspiring conversation that’s bound to linger long after it’s over.

The Why Behind the Story

1. Bliss Creek centers on a protagonist stripped of her past, free to reinvent herself or search for what was lost. How much of this mirrors your own life journey of transitioning from law and parenting to storytelling?

2. Do you see Elizabeth’s journey as a metaphor for the human condition—are we all, in a way, waking up each day with a blank slate to redefine who we are?

3. What compelled you to explore the themes of memory, identity, and reinvention in a world grappling with uncertainty?

4. In creating the idyllic yet eerie Bliss Creek, were you seeking to critique our own “safe zones” or utopian ideals, and how they often conceal the truths we fear to face?

Amber’s Identity and Process

5. Plato’s allegory of the cave speaks to the challenge of confronting harsh truths after living in comforting illusions. Have you faced your own “cave” moment—a time when you had to leave behind the familiar to embrace something more authentic?

6. How do your experiences as an attorney and a mother shape your view of storytelling as a means to uncover truths and challenge perspectives?

7. Writers often leave pieces of themselves in their characters. How much of Amber Willingham exists in Elizabeth, and how much did you invent as an exploration of someone entirely different?

8. Do you view storytelling as an act of defiance—a way to expose hidden realities and challenge societal narratives, as philosophers and revolutionaries have done throughout history?

The Philosophy and Psychology of Bliss Creek

9. Elizabeth wrestles with the question of whether to reinvent herself or rediscover her past. Do you think we’re shaped more by the stories we tell ourselves or the ones we uncover about who we’ve been?

10. How do you see the role of memory in forming identity? Are we truly defined by our past, or can we become someone entirely new?

11. The “nagging feeling that something isn’t right” resonates deeply. Do you think that disquiet is universal—a signal that we’re not living authentically—and how can we learn to listen to it?

12. Bliss Creek as a setting feels both utopian and dystopian. Do you think our modern lives mirror this duality—safe but stifling, comfortable but unfulfilled?

Amber’s Journey and Insights

13. You’ve said people have three careers in their lifetime. How has each of your careers shaped the way you see the world and inspired your storytelling?

14. Was there a pivotal moment in your life when you realized you needed to leave behind the structured world of law to embrace the unknown of creative writing?

15. Your protagonist faces a profound choice: embrace reinvention or pursue the truth. What truths have you uncovered about yourself through the process of writing this novel?

16. As a storyteller, do you feel a responsibility to guide readers toward their own “cave” moments of discovery, and how do you balance this with the need to entertain?

Closing with Depth

17. If Bliss Creek is a mirror reflecting our inner struggles, what do you hope readers will see in their own reflection?

18. If someone were to write a novel about Amber Willingham’s life, what would the opening chapter reveal about your identity and purpose?

19. If storytelling is a form of rebellion, what are you rebelling against with Bliss Creek? What system, belief, or illusion do you hope to dismantle?

20. Do you believe that every story we tell is an attempt to escape our own caves—or are we really just searching for the light?

1. Revenge and Memory: The Duality of Justice and Liberation

Amber’s protagonist, Iz, embarks on a journey to uncover a forgotten self, driven by a “nagging feeling” that something is wrong. This reflects the tension between seeking justice and liberation, suggesting revenge might not always be about retribution but reclaiming what’s lost.

• Question: Do you see Iz’s search for her past as an act of revenge against forces that erased her identity, or as a deeper quest for liberation? How do you balance these ideas in her journey?

• Question: How does revenge in Bliss Creek differ from traditional narratives of retribution? Is there a psychological cost to confronting one’s past?

• Question: In the act of remembering, is Iz exacting a form of revenge against the amnesia forced upon her, and does this process change her?

2. Bankruptcy and the Moral Collapse of Systems

The setting of Bliss Creek in a world teetering on instability mirrors the emotional bankruptcy of individuals stripped of their identity. This could symbolize the failure of societal systems, whether legal, economic, or moral.

• Question: How does the notion of bankruptcy—whether financial, moral, or emotional—play into Iz’s story and the broader world of Bliss Creek?

• Question: Do you see Iz’s memory loss as a metaphor for societal failure, where the past is erased to suppress accountability?

• Question: Can forgetting be seen as a kind of bankruptcy, where the cost is identity itself?

3. Law, Boundaries, and the Fight for Control

Amber’s legal background subtly permeates the story, with themes of rules, boundaries, and justice shaping Iz’s exploration. The narrative hints at a philosophical struggle: when laws fail, does resilience become the ultimate law?

• Question: How has your background in law influenced the way you approach boundaries and resilience in Iz’s journey? Are there unspoken rules she’s forced to navigate?

• Question: Do you see a connection between legal systems and personal morality in the decisions Iz must make?

• Question: Does the absence of clear rules or memories in Bliss Creek mirror the chaos of a world where justice systems no longer function?

4. Life as a Fight: The Spirit of Resilience

Iz’s persistent questioning of her identity despite the allure of a “serene” life suggests an indomitable fighting spirit. The act of remembering becomes an act of rebellion, showcasing resilience in the face of oppression or apathy.

• Question: Iz’s journey is one of fighting against comfort and complacency. How do you think resilience manifests when people are forced to confront painful truths about themselves?

• Question: Does resilience, in Iz’s case, come from a fear of losing herself, or a deeper desire to reclaim a forgotten strength?

• Question: How do you view the human spirit’s ability to fight against imposed narratives, whether through law, memory, or societal expectations?

5. Philosophical Undertones: The Nature of Identity and Transformation

The novel’s premise—waking up as a blank slate—challenges readers to consider whether identity is constructed by choice or by history. It also poses a haunting question: is it better to remain in blissful ignorance or fight for a painful truth?

• Question: Is Iz’s journey a reflection of Nietzsche’s eternal return, where she must face and embrace her past to move forward?

• Question: How does the idea of tabula rasa—starting with a blank slate—fit into Iz’s development? Does this offer freedom, or does it reveal the burden of identity?

• Question: Do you believe transformation can happen without struggle, or is it always rooted in a kind of death and rebirth?

Poem: 

A Pyre of Stars

Do you feel it? That trembling pulse beneath the stone—

the first crack in centuries, a whisper turned roar,

a mutiny of roots against the weight of thrones.

History bleeds in the margins of the page,

inked with wars and whispered betrayals,

the screams of those who bore the yoke

until they learned to break it.

Rise! the ground cries,

a diacope of fire and fervor,

Rise, rise! it demands,

as chains turn to serpents,

devouring the hands that forged them.

The air grows electric with the audacity of revolt.

Shattered ceilings rain like glass teeth,

jagged edges kissing the skin of the daring.

Revolutions are not born—they erupt,

molten truths searing paths through the frost of indifference.

Where are your boundaries, oh tyrant?

Where is the border of your control?

Every empire is a sandcastle before the tide,

its grandeur swept in the fist of a rising ocean.

It is rage that teaches boundaries,

an anger ancient as Prometheus,

who stole fire not to warm,

but to defy.

See the faces of revolutions past:

Ophelia drowning in her madness,

Spartacus breaking the lash,

the women of Paris storming gates

with hunger turned into fury,

with bread knives turned into spears.

Oh, how fragile are the keepers of order!

Their laws are cobwebs before a hurricane.

For what is audacity but truth unleashed,

and what is boldness but the refusal to kneel?

We are the sunrise burning through the fog,

our voices the cannon that shakes the firmament.

In the end, all tyrants fear the same thing:

a people who remember they are fire.

So let this poem be a pyre of stars,

a light so fierce it burns into your soul—

even when you close your eyes.

https://alwillingham.com/

https://amberlwillinghamlaw.com/

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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the True Life Podcast. I hope that everyone within the sound of my voice is having a beautiful day. I hope the sun is shining. I hope the birds are singing. I hope the wind is at your back. Prepare to be captivated by the brilliance of debut author Amber Willingham, whose novel, Bliss Creek, invites readers on an unforgettable journey of identity, mystery, and self-discovery. Amber's unique path from attorney to mother to storyteller imbues her work with a rare authenticity and depth. She expertly weaves her rich life experiences into every page, crafting a story that feels as profound as it is suspenseful. Set in the idyllic yet enigmatic Bliss Creek, Bliss Creek explores the life of Elizabeth, a young woman who awakens with no memory of her past. Should she embrace this chance to reinvent herself or delve into the unsettling truth hidden within her lost identity? Through her struggles, Amber invites readers to ponder some of life's deepest questions. What defines us? Are we the sum of our past, or can we truly begin anew? Amber's ability to combine her keen analytical skills from her legal background with her profound understanding of human relationships makes her storytelling stand out. With an engaging voice and an eye for detail, she creates a world that feels both familiar and otherworldly, a safe haven concealing the mysteries of the human soul. Based in Katy, Texas, Amber's life is as vibrant as her writing. She shares her home with her husband, Phil, and their four beloved rescued animals, Raleigh, Suki, April, and Kiko, and finds inspiration in the everyday joys of family life. Amber, I'm so stoked you're here today. Thanks for writing this book. Thank you for having the courage to become an author, and I'm really looking forward to learning today. How are you? I'm good. Thank you so much for having me today. I appreciate it very much. Yeah, it's going to be awesome. So maybe we can start off a little bit about your background before we dive into the book. You're an attorney, bankruptcy and relationships. Maybe give us a little bit of background, who you were before you became an author. Yeah, yeah. I think I was always an author, to be honest. I've been writing since I was little, but I am an attorney. I've Been practicing bankruptcy law since the nineties. That dates me a little bit. And then I stayed, I had the fortunate option to stay at home with my kids. And I did, I stayed at home with my children for, I don't even know how long, honestly. I think it was ten years. It feels like seventy, but I'm pretty sure it was like ten. And I stayed home with the kiddos and raised them, got them to where they needed to be. And then went back to work as an attorney. While I was home with the kids, you know, kids go to school. I don't know if you knew that, but they leave you. So, you know, I've got a good five, six hours during the day that this head doesn't stop. And that's when I wrote these books. I just I don't know. It was it just needed to come out. It was a story. It needed to come out. And some of your questions that you have posed to me today have made me realize why it needed to come out and what the background was behind those. But during that time, I wrote them. Then I shoved them in a banker's box. And I mean, I actually hand wrote them. and put them in a corner somewhere where they gathered dust for a while. And my youngest went off to college in, I don't know, a few years ago. And at that time I decided it's time. I'm gonna publish this. And I also went back to work practicing law. So I kind of over-corrected. I was scared because the kids were gonna leave. I didn't have any birds in the nest anymore. So I definitely overcorrected, opened up my own practice, and it is really gone haywire, sadly, because I'm a bankruptcy attorney. But it's a very busy practice, and I'm trying to publish this book. I published my first one this year, and that's a huge learning experience. That's the hard part. you know, publishing and promoting and trying to get it out there and figuring out how to do social media, which is funny. I've posted a few things that I'm like, I have no idea, you know, tap in the microphone. Is this hot? I don't know. Am I in my stream? I don't know what I'm doing. But it's been fun. It's been a fun learning experience. And I love to learn. And you know, in my fifties, I just don't, I don't even want to stop. I just want to keep on going. I love it. I love the idea. I can hear the sound of the death and the rebirth and the existential there and meaning and purposefulness. Thank you for sharing all that. I love I can't help but be drawn to someone who seems to want to fight for someone to have the best chance possible, regardless of what their past is. And I fully get that vibe from you. And I see some of the imagery that you have on your site with like Lady Justice. And I'm like, oh, this girl, she gets it. This one gets it. Like, I can't wait to get into the book and do that. And I think the best way to get into the book is to sort of get in to who you are. And so... I got a first question coming in already that says this Bliss Creek centers on a protagonist stripped of her past, free to reinvent herself or search for what was lost. How much of this mirrors your own life journey of transitioning from law and parenting to storytelling? You know, I think the biggest transition for me was going from practicing law and going to court. And I was a litigator and I went to court and I did this three, four times a week. And I argued and I wrote briefs and I wore suits. And then I was a stay at home mom all of a sudden. And The biggest thing for me was I don't know what to wear. I don't have any clothes that fit PTA. You know, I show up in suits going, OK, this is not this is right. That was a very, very difficult transition and one that I never thought I would take. transitioning back into law was super easy and super fun. And I was ready. I was so ready for it. And writing the book, that was easy. That was fun. There was no transition. It was just, I just wrote, I just wrote and it was therapeutic and I enjoyed it. Publishing, that's a whole new world. That transition is still happening right now. Yeah, it seems like every step reveals the next step. what I mean by that like you have to sort of embrace the uncertainty of it especially diving into the world of publishing or being an author or discovering who you are through your characters or through your message it's a giant move to embrace it in some ways the same way you built a world at bliss creek so are you building this new world outside it's it's interesting for me to to get into what what compelled you to explore the themes of memory and identity and reinvention in this particular novel? I think I started from the outside. I started at the end and worked my way back. And I just thought, wouldn't it be fun if she didn't know? And you'll see in book two, I don't want to give too much away, how many of the characters and the plots are... Book two is a prequel. So book two leads to what happened, why she is where she is, why she woke up without any memory. And it's a moral dilemma. And I'm toeing a line here. It's a moral dilemma that her family faced and suffered. It posed to me the question, and I hope it poses to the readers, how far would I go? How far would I go in the name of love, in the name of my kids? What would I do in that situation? I think when you put the two books together, you will definitely, hopefully the reader will get out of that what I intended, and that is to self-explore and, you know, maybe determine that the villain isn't such a villain after all. Yeah. I can't help but see the idea of trauma play out you know and it's it's interesting because this thing in life called trauma is the one thing that really binds us regardless of race religion or gender like we all have this trauma that we face and it's sort of that overcoming of trauma the hero's journey if you will to stand up in the face of of adversity like what are you going to do now and it seems to me that these are some of the themes in the book when you start saying things like how far would you go you know when I hear about how far would you go I started thinking about what's the difference between revenge and justice let me pose that question to you when you think about that what is the difference between revenge and justice and how do we navigate that oh I think the difference between revenge and justice is is your motive is your is yeah I mean you know what what's your purpose Yeah. Um, are you going for, you know, uh, the money or are you going to make them pay? That's the difference. Right. And, and how much of a motivator is that, right? Like whether it's a character in a book or whether it's a character in real life, those two things is motivation can fundamentally change the way we feel about ourselves, about our story, about everything. Right. Those are two pretty powerful motivators. Definitely for sure. I think, you know, justice has a moral component to it that makes it okay, I guess. Whereas revenge, that's a self-serving and not a public service, you know? Yeah. Yeah, where, like, it's interesting those two threshold guardians of justice and revenge because they do seem to be grabbing the hand of love and pulling it in different directions. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, no, exactly. Yeah, I mean, because they can look exactly the same. But, you know, it depends on what's in your head and what's in your heart. Yeah. What about without, like, It seems to me that you have had to sort of see both of those threshold guardians, like dealing in law and dealing in trauma, like dealing with people who may be calling you or reaching out to you for one. Hey, this is my last shot right here. Like you have to see both of those threshold guardians. How did that influence your ability to help create a narrative that is compelling? I absolutely believe it did because I think. that a part of this world to me, so I see, I was raised in a bubble. My children were raised in a bubble. Neither of us really saw what life is like outside of our backyard. And I wanted I discovered this later in life. I discovered this with my bankruptcy practice that right outside of my backyard, there are people suffering. There are people who are broke. There are people who are going to lose their house. There are LOLs, my little old lady clients who are on social security and very little of it and trying to survive. And then you have predatory practices out there of lenders and credit cards. And, you know, twenty six to I've seen up to one hundred and fifty percent interest on some loans. So you've got these people out there that are preying on the little people who don't, maybe aren't sophisticated enough, maybe don't have the education to filter through who means them harm and who doesn't. I have been blessed to be a part of these people's lives and to see into what their experiences are. And I'm touched by that. But the world that I created doesn't have the differentiation. It doesn't have, this is a world where I took the, what if, what if we, what if the whole world ended in the social contract disbanded and there's a few people left, but there's no government There's no hierarchy. There's no way of determining who is who and what is what. Rich is poor and poor is rich now. And how would we as a society come back from this? So that was the forest. And I took it upon myself to go in and look at a tree. And Iz is one of the trees. And go from there and we will expand out. Does that make sense? Yeah, it totally makes sense. I just, I really think it's imperative to get that story. You know what I mean? Like, I want to understand. background, like she is a tree, like the idea of the safe zones and the utopian ideals and how often they can conceal the truths we fear we face. And so I want to flesh that out. Maybe we could give, without giving away any secret sauce, can you tell us a little bit about the foundation of the story? So those that are listening would be enticed to come right down to the show notes, click on that link and buy the book for a Christmas gift. so um the basis so this story starts this is uh uh far far away in the future we don't have any werewolves we don't have any vampires um you know there's no superpowers it's just us as a people as humankind and we have survived world war iii we have um there are no nations anymore and uh there's only you know, maybe twenty five percent of humankind is left. And this is a zone. So so we see the big picture. You got the world as we know it is over and there's no economies. There's no cell phones. There's nothing left. I don't know if you've ever watched The Walking Dead. So you know how they have to go around and they have to find houses that are empty and live in them. And they create that as their home. And this is what we have done as a people. We go around and find what's left and create a society as best we can out of that. Eventually, over time, we have some leaders. We don't really know who they are, but they're protecting us and they are making sure that we are safe from the invaders because there are bad people out there. So these societies are zones and they are... Protected and they're walled off and you live in a zone. You don't ever leave that zone So it's sort of like suburbia. You don't ever leave, you know and and so it narrows down that picture narrows down to this one house in suburbia where is Lives and she has no memory. She doesn't know how she got here. She doesn't know why her bedroom there are no pictures there are no she has no friends her parents are telling her things that she just questions all along and she doesn't really understand anything she doesn't understand why she doesn't have pictures she doesn't understand why she doesn't have any journals she doesn't understand why There are everything is in boxes and her mother's trying to dress her in clothes that are different from what she finds in the boxes. And she goes through this. She feels loved. She knows that they love her, but something is wrong. And something continues to bother her about the situation. And so you have to read the book to figure out what she decides to do. She has to decide, do I continue on in this safe little bubble that I'm in and pretend like I am who they say I am? Or do I search and find clues and try and figure out who I really am and why this all feels so wrong? Crystal Phoenix is another author. She says, I'm loving this. Can you send the book link in our link? Of course I can, Crystal. This will be fantastic. We're about to get into some different parts I think you're really going to love, Crystal. I can't help but think that this story sort of echoes the... the hero's call or the idea that you come to a point in life where you've got to start making some decisions. Are you going to grow up? Are you going to go out and seek that which you want to be? Or are you going to stay in the bubble and live this life that culture wants you to live? I see this wonderful struggle emerging. In some ways, it harkens to James Joyce's idea of history is the nightmare from which I'm trying to awaken. You know, it sounds like Iz is trying to awaken from this nightmare, but what, is there, when you came up with this, so you said you, maybe we could just touch for a minute, like when you wrote this, because it kind of sounds like it's echoing modernity right now. Did you write this particular, this book in the last five years, seven years during COVID? No, no, it was well before COVID. This was, I wrote this book. Yeah. I think it was around the time that The Hunger Games came out, Divergent, and I was very intrigued by these teenage female protagonists and I enjoyed their heroism. And I just really enjoyed that. I love the idea of a powerful woman and somebody who, so she's a little bit like me, except she's who I wish I was, right? I mean, she- I love it. There's no moral lines for her. It is she is right and she's going to follow what's right. And that's the end of it. And she doesn't toe the line. And I love that about her. But, of course, she's in a situation. She's young. She hasn't had to toe that line. I identify with Sarah, the mother, because Sarah has to toe that line all the time because she is the mom. And she's the character that I question, what would I do? How far would I go to save my kids? Would I destroy them in order to save them? I don't know. I've had some really fascinating talks recently about the mother-daughter relationship. And it's so interesting that you say, how far would I go to save them? That's such a brilliant question that all of us should ask. Maybe not only just about our kids, but about ourselves. How far are you willing to go? Are you willing to Are you willing to risk everything to become the person that you can be? That's a pretty bold question to ask, right? How many people do you think would do that? Do you think that the majority of people, Amber, would be willing to risk it all to become the person they can be? Or do you think the majority of people would be like, hmm, this bubble is pretty big. I think that if the majority of people risked everything to become what they wanted to be, this world would be full of heroes and incredible. I mean, I think people are scared, and rightfully so. I mean, you get into a groove, and you become comfortable, and why would you get out of it, right? I did. I got out of it, and it's scary. It's not, you know... it's scary. I self-published and I was rejected by several agents, which I understand that that's a part of it. And especially being a fiction author, it's hard to find your readers, right? Because it could be anyone. I also wanted to note too, while we're on the topic of readers, I like that so this book is clean. You're not going to find sex in it. You're not going to find cuss words in it because I wanted, I wanted to, uh, market to not only my mom who loved the book, um, and she and her girlfriends, they just love it. And they ask me questions all the time. They're so cute. Um, but I wanted, um, young, younger generation to be able to read this so that they can pose these questions to themselves and also, um, maybe look at the world a little bit differently because I feel like, This book and this series, I've got two more that are written, that it kind of encompasses what if. What if we continue on this road that we're on as a society, as a world? What if we have a nuclear war? What does that look like after? And do we really want that? Yeah, I think those are brilliant questions. Is that something that you thought of? Did you... Did you do a storyboard? Did you map out the whole series and put in the morals and the ideas before you started writing like book three or book four? Or is it like sort of a emerging dream where the motifs are in your subconscious and they're building as you go? the latter, that emerging dream. I mean, so the original just start, I mean, it just spilled. It just spilled out as I was writing, you know, eating Tootsie Rolls, drinking wine and writing and writing and writing and, you know, oh, this is good. And then I started outlining and filling in, right? So maybe this happens and we fill in and do a little bit of this. And then after the first book was written, And I came to the end and I thought, okay, so I need to storyboard this to figure out how to finish. So afterwards, book two was storyboarded and book three needs to be storyboarded because I can't figure out how it ends. What about imagery? I have found that this digital world that we seem to be putting our foot into is rich with digital imagery that's symbolic and beautiful and speaks its own language. Did you provide images in the book, or perhaps you've used some incredible analogies and diacopy and all these incredible rhetorical tools for people to see the book the way that they get to interpret it? So I, for, this sounds weird, but in my mind, this book is in a seventies house with a telephone with a cord and velvet wallpaper and shag carpet. And, you know, we have gone back, we have reverted back. So, picture, if you will, you know, what it looked like in the seventies, you know, it was simple and there are few to little cars, very few cars on the road, because that is one of the issues. The second book is called the petroleum wars. So you can take from that what you will, but cars are, are few and far between for a good reason. And, uh, so the imagery in my mind, um, and I posted a few of these on Instagram of, you know, houses that I think look like is, is, and, um, I, I, you know, I don't know you, you're in Hawaii. I was, I'm in here. Where are you now? I'm in, uh, Sonoma area now. Okay. So it's beautiful, beautiful. So, um, I, I have, there's this place in, in Texas, uh, called New Braunfels and there is a stream, there is a waterfall, sort of a man-made machine waterfall and outdoor markets and a few cobblestone and brick street areas. This is how I picture it. You know, Clint, that's the house I grew up in too. I, uh, uh, so this is what, this is the image that I used when I created this town, this list Creek and, and everything in it is old and everything in it is from the seventies. And it's the stuff that survived, um, you know, this new stuff, the new buildings, the new construction. It didn't, it did in my, in my head, it didn't survive what, uh, we went through, but the old stuff that was really built to last it, it lasted. How much of this series do you think is sort of a bridge between maybe the world you grew up in and giving shining examples of beauty to the next generation? I think that's a very good question because the fact is, is I would love to see the next generation not so reliant on, um, on, technology. And, you know, I'd love to see kids outside playing. You don't see that anymore. And I'd love for, you know, one day, one day it's all going to go down. We're not going to have this. And then what, you know, we're going to read books. We're going to learn to talk face to face and have conversations and, That's the bridge I want to gap right there. Because Elizabeth and her friends, they do not have technology. If they want to talk, they have to go find each other and speak face to face and look each other in the eye. I love Generation X. I love it. I love it. You know, I there's a great there's another great book for my listeners. I'm going to say, George, you've said a million times, but I can't I can't help it. It's this there's a book called The Fourth Turning. And in that book, they speak about the roles of the generations and how we influence each other. And it sounds to me like it's when I read that book, I I begin to see this jigsaw puzzle of pieces coming together. And it's it's so wonderful in so many ways. There's so many cool insights in it. For some reason, I felt necessary to put that piece out there. I got a question coming in right here for you, Elizabeth. I'm sorry. I got a question coming in right here. It says, in the act of remembering, is exacting a form of revenge against the amnesia forced upon her, or does this process change her? I don't know that it's necessarily an act that she's remembering. She doesn't mean to. You know, it's just it's just things keep popping in, popping in her head and just little tidbits. And then she takes that and it's not revenge yet because she doesn't have a reason for revenge that she knows of. She's not aware of any reason for revenge. Can you as an individual think of a time, maybe a story, maybe something that happened where you got to see revenge play out? Oh, I don't know. I mean, you're making me think of, yeah. So one of the things that you and I talked about was the Plato's cave. Yes. And so it's making me think of my cave moment. Yeah, let's hear that. Let's talk about it. So I grew up in Oklahoma and I was in law school at the University of Oklahoma and I graduated in nineteen ninety five. On April nineteen, nineteen ninety five, Timothy McVeigh parked a van in front of the daycare center at the federal building and detonated a bomb in my hometown. That was my cave moment. We were in the middle of America, in the heart of America. Who would have ever thought we would be attacked by terrorism in Oklahoma? for me to see him die, to see him executed was the ultimate, I mean, I, you know, it doesn't, didn't bring those babies back, but, um, you know, that, that's the only time I've really felt that strongly. Um, that revenge was in my heart. Um, not justice. I didn't care about justice. I, you know, revenge. Um, that was a, that was a rude awakening to the fact that, you know, we really aren't, safety is an illusion. And that broke that illusion. Thanks for sharing that. That's fantastic. I think that those are the moments in life. Yeah. No, that's, that's what it takes. I mean, you know, we'd like to think that it's rainbows and roses, but the truth is there's a whole nother side of the world out there that doesn't care who you are, how many things you do, right. Or, you know, sometimes really bad things happen to really good people. And the opposite is true as well. And I, I think that that is why, you know, fiction is, being an author really allows us to dive into some of these territories and it really allows us to explore in depth some of these really powerful emotions or some of these raw facts of life that happen to us and we don't have to lose a daycare center you know you can in your mind you can explore these areas and a really good writer a really good book will make that world tangible to you and it'll pull you right in and make you part of the story and it'll it'll let you smell the the the water from bliss creek or some of the fresh grass that's coming up in the springtime and you know I I I like asking these questions though because I think it helps the listeners understand what kind of an author you are and beyond that it it it underscores authenticity so thank you for sharing that speaking of that when I think of authenticity what comes up for you authenticity Well, I mean, a sincerity, you know, um, uh, whether or not, and I have to say your question helped me think about what kind of author I am too. Um, uh, and, and helped me really understand, um, subconsciously where this kind of came from and that it didn't, you know, my mind didn't just make this stuff out of the blue that there was stuff in there that needed to come out and that came out in the character of his. And I, I, um, You know, I love that you have helped me put a purpose behind this story. And, you know, that now for me smells like authenticity because I hope that at some point some kiddos are going to read this book and think, you know what, I'd rather be in a world that is, you know, doesn't end up like this. Yeah, I think that people who choose to write or be a storyteller and be an authentic storyteller, sometimes you have to tell other people's stories before you can tell your own story. And there's no shame in that. That's how we all learn. We all came from these master storytellers. And I think inside all of us is a story that is dying to get out there, is dying to be lived. And I do. When I read through some of the words you're writing and I get to talk to you, I do see the bright sun of authenticity shining. And it's wonderful to me. And I do think when something is authentic, it becomes contagious. And that is what moves people. That is what will allow the kids to read this and see their own vision of it, to see it through a different lens. And you know, I, I, which brings me to my next question, which is, do you feel, do you view storytelling as an act of defiance, a way to expose hidden realities and challenge social narratives as philosophers and revolutionaries have done throughout history? I didn't until now, but yeah, I do. I, I, I think, uh, I think we as a society are on the wrong track and, um, and I think my story is, is, um, you know, it's a foreboding, if you will. I mean, you can't really tell in the first, in the first book, but second and the third, you know, you, you will see, I mean, it is sort of, I, it's not prophetic by any stretch, but I mean, it's, it is a, what if, what if we continue on like this, this could happen. And, and yeah, I, I, I think that we need to take a hard turn at some point. and perhaps maybe avoid these pitfalls and the disaster that seems to be on the horizon. Yeah, that's my response. Yeah, no, it's a beautiful one. I love the idea of individuals who not only tell their stories, but they write it. Have you found there to be, for you, a difference in the written word versus the spoken word? You have to go and argue in front of authority figures or sit down with people and have this brilliant conversation with people who may be coming to you for help, whether it's bankruptcy law or justice. But then you have this written word where you sit down and you get to write stuff. Can you speak to the ideas on the differences, how the written word and the spoken word make you feel and how they resonate with other people? Well, I think the spoken word is much more nerve wracking because I can't edit it. I can't take my pen and scratch out, you know, my mistakes or erase it. The written word, I think, is more freeing. And, you know, you can just sort of, vomit words on the page and know that you can go back later and fix it. Whereas in the spoken word, you got to get it right the first time. And I think it's a little nerve wracking. And, and sometimes, you know, if you say, if you say the wrong thing, it can affect relationships too. And so the spoken word, I think has more weight on it. Yeah. Yeah, I think about that a lot. You know, I think it was Samuel Clemens who said that the written word is the carcass of the spoken word. And I had to dig into that. I'm like, what is he talking about? But when you think about being an orator and you think about being in front of people, there's a whole complex process. of emotions that are playing out. And there's more than words. It's facial features. It's your hands moving. It's pheromones. It's all of these things coming to be a symphony that capsulates and impresses impregnates the other person with potential ideas of what is possible it's it's it's amazing to me and isn't it beautiful that you as an author you wrote this story and now you're here speaking about this story you think that like I feel like that adds another dimension to it what do you think I love it I I have I've done a couple of other podcasts and um and we've talked about me um and uh and I don't want to be boring I don't want to you know I'm I'm a middle-aged you know attorney slash housewife that wrote a book. But to talk about my book, that's like talking about one of my kids, right? I love talking about it. And I love diving into my subconscious and figuring out where it came from. And I love creating this world and then talking about it and filling in the blanks. And to me, it's much more riveting than me. Yeah, ideas are always something that are fun to banter back and forth. And when you can not only create a story, but allow others to play a role in a story you write together. I think that's the evolution of the book. And I think that writing the book is amazing and then getting people to interact with it and then getting their feedback and then getting to explain to people, hey, here's why I did this and have them, oh, have you thought of that? Allowing other people to play a role in a story you make together is what makes stories unforgettable on some level. It's that, it's that interaction we have with each other. It's the play on ideas and the spoken and the written word. And I will say that's absolutely correct because, and, and, and also it's, it's tightened some of the relationships that I've had. You know, I've, I've, I used my friends and I said, here, read this, tell me what you think, write all over it. And they did, and we have fun with it. And they are a part of it now, and they love that. They love that they were a part of making this book what it was. Yeah. I feel like there's a spiritual component to it. Like, we start talking about relationships and language. Like, these, on some level, are pillars of, you know... maybe not maybe religion, but on some level, something bigger than us. You know, I use the word spiritual. Like, and when I use that word, I'm trying to explain becoming or understanding something bigger than yourself. Did you feel like you touched that flame of like wholeness? Or did you touch that flame of like, I'm tapping into something that's bigger than me. Like the story's coming from somewhere. And I feel like, I'm streaming the, the, a message that's coming to me, but what was, what was your process like? Was it, was it spiritual in some nation or some way, or is that word the wrong word to use? I hope so. I, um, I, I want this to be, you know, I, uh, God sanctions and, um, you know, uh, uh, a tribute, if you will. I don't know if it is. Um, I know that, um, the religious aspect is missing from the book. And I don't know if there's a reason for that, if that world just didn't have it, but it's not there. And it was never there in my head. And maybe it will evolve into that. But I have to believe that I didn't just make this up, that it was, you know, given to me. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, it's such a common thread when you hear people in the act of creation. Like when you're really in it, it's like time falls away. You're not thinking about going to Costco or buying a Tesla. You're writing this thing. You're in this story. You're creating this thing. And I got to imagine if we could do brain scans of people that were in the creative state would look a lot like, you know, the default mode network being shut down and people just flowing through. And there's no room for, there's no room for hate or anger, or there's just room for creation. It, I can't help but think that that's spiritual to me. Like when you move past some of these, you know, threshold guardians of emotions, like there's more there. And do you feel that you are different after you've written the book? Are you the same, obviously the same person, but has part of you changed? Has this character influenced you in a way you didn't know possible? I have to tell you that, well, first I'm going to tell you something funny. You know how sometimes people... They, um, uh, uh, sometimes people, you know, when they, when they have to go to the bathroom, it's like, oh, I gotta go. Um, that's how it is with me in writing. I'm like, I'll be doing the dishes and I'm like, oh, I gotta go. I gotta go. I gotta, I gotta, I just had something and you gotta write it down as soon as it happens because I'll forget. I, I, and I think I'll remember, but I don't. Um, but, uh, I also, um, uh, after I wrote these, but after I wrote this first book, I, I mean, my half of my head was in this world all the time. I couldn't, I couldn't fully engage in, uh, in real life for a while. I had to go, okay, I got to leave is alone for a minute and focus on, on life. But, um, yeah, it's very, very, um, It can it can take up my world for sure. And I enjoy it. I enjoy being able to right now I'm in the process of editing. So it's been a little while since I sat down and wrote fresh. And I'm anxious to get get going on that and relive that it's a little bit of a high if you will, you know, and it just feels good. It feels good. Yeah, this one's coming from the Psychedelic Christian Podcast, which is a great podcast. I would recommend everybody go down there and check it out. And maybe you might even see Amber on this podcast. This person's amazing. You would love him. He says, how do you think helping people navigate bankruptcy has shaped your view of humanity? It really has. It really has. It has been such an eye opener to see, like I said earlier, the people who are not very far from me and they are struggling. Um, and I, it, it, it brings me joy and a little fulfillment when I can take, um, one of their worries away, um, and it provide them with that fresh start provide, you know, and, and hopefully, I don't know if I, I have an impact. I'd like to think that I do, but hopefully, Explain to them how they got in the situation that they're in and how not to do it again. Hopefully they leave with their fresh start, having no debt, no creditors calling them all the time, no liens, no fear of having their car disappear when they walk out the door, and hopefully knowing how to avoid those pitfalls again. So yes, humanity, I see the best of it and I see the worst of it in my practice. And, um, and it, and it really has opened my eyes for sure. Thank you for that question. It's, um, I don't know how it shaped my view because it has provided two extremes, right? I've always been in the middle and, um, and now I see, I see the extremes on either side and, uh, uh, I do know how to navigate them now though. and after all these years I've figured out you know which on this side have teeth if you will and and and what isn't I I love being able to talk to somebody on the phone and tell them you know when they're in a panic because um something happened that I happen to know is not a big deal and I love being able to say what are they gonna do It's OK. You're not a rush. They are not going to take anything from you. You are OK. And just that simple conversation. I mean, it just makes me feel really good. And because they hang up going, oh, OK, I'll go about my day and go about my life, you know, without that worry over their shoulder. It speaks to the ideas of fear and guilt and shame and what powerful motivators those are in our daily life and how they're wielded against us on some level. This idea that we're less than, that we should be shameful, that you didn't pay this thing. You didn't pay that thing. You should go to prison. It's kind of crazy to think about this world that we live in where maybe there's not debt or prisons, but man, it sure feels like it if you're trapped in this idea of shame, right? Some people believe there is a debtor prison. I mean, I can't even count how many people who have called me who think that they're going to go to jail because they didn't pay a bill. By the way, you don't go to jail for not paying a bill. Just so that it's out there. Yeah, there's no debtor prison and there's not a lot they can do. I want to say, too, for your listeners that while I mentioned kiddos reading this book, this is not just for kids. And and I think it has some adult content as well, but not, you know, in a scandalous way. It's just it's it's it's just a clean. Story. Yeah. And I I've noticed a trend of young kids. My daughter's eleven. And some of the books she reads or some of the things that she pays attention to, you know, it's I think they're growing up in a world where there's so much information out there, but they're They're smarter than us. There is that bubble, but at the same time, there's so much information come in. They're like, I don't know about that thing. That thing looks a little weird over there. But I do see some of these ideas that maybe you and I thought of or our parents were like, hey, you can't read that or whatever. We're going to protect you. Like some of those ideas are falling away and younger kids are beginning to read, you know, some ideas like about debt or about loss or about grief or, hey, maybe, you know, this whole idea about being afraid of dying is a little silly, you know, like, but have you noticed that trend as well with your kids or maybe the literature that's out there for younger people to read is a little bit more grown up than when we were reading? Oh, definitely. Definitely. I mean, and that is why I think that's why I'm referring to kiddos when I talk about this book because the stuff that they have in the libraries now and when I I went to the um austin book festival uh last weekend and under teen lit with some really interesting books that I thought you know I don't really feel like this is Teen appropriate, but, uh, you know, I, I guess, um, society dictates what's appropriate, um, now, and, uh, it's just up to us as parents to decipher and, um, filter through what society has said. Um, our kids can read. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting to, to see the world changing in ways that seem interesting. But then I started thinking, am I just becoming my dad? Like, this is crazy. You can't be having that, you know, like, okay, chill out, George. Maybe a little both. I mean, I don't know. My kids are really grown. So I, you know, um, I have my, my son will give me books to read. He's a, he's an avid reader. My daughter's in college. So she doesn't have time for that nonsense. Um, but my son and I compare notes a lot. Nice. What, uh, have they always been readers? No, no, especially my son, but he loves like Brandon Sanderson. He loves those books. Yeah. I, and I, I read one and it took me about six months. And I was like, oh, yeah, I don't think we're going to share books anymore. We're not going to have this little mom son book club. You're way above me. Like you said, they're just smarter because they've had, you know, they've had that tiny little computer in their hands since they were fifteen years old. Yeah. It brings up this question. Being in the digital realm so much and getting to talk to so many cool people, I almost feel like there's a new form or an evolution of language happening. It seems that even though you and I are not we don't really have the felt presence of the other. Like I'm not in the room with you. I can't slap my knee and like, I can't be around you, you know? And like, but I do feel as if there's still some sort of meaningful contact coming on. And I think that that comes through the narrow focus on the way you're moving your eyes or the way you move your head, whether you lean in or whether you lean back. And I'm, I think that this is sort of, forcing people to focus in on little details that maybe they didn't focus in on before because you're not next to them. So you really have to look to have meaningful contact. How do you, how do you see the future of linguistics playing out or language playing out? Do you see AI and this particular type of conversation changing the way we interact with people? I hope not. I hope that AI, I, you know, I, I like chat GPT. For the information that it provides me when I need it. But I don't like the idea of the AI taking over necessarily the writing and other artistic modes. You know, it's a scary, scary thought. But I do agree with you. I think it's cool. We can have this conversation. It's like we're in, you know, you're, you know, half a country away from me. And yeah, it's like, we're right here. It is pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah, I'm hopeful for it. I feel on some level, the, if it, It decorates the art of the conversation because that's what's left is the live conversation. That's what's left is, wow, they wrote this book. Let me talk to them. Let me figure out who this person is. Let's see what really motivates them. I think that they work hand in hand. You can write something or you could even – Like someone could write something with the help of AI. But when you have this thing that they have together and the conversation, now it's more of a holistic package. I can read Bliss Creek and be stoked on it, but I'll be even more stoked on it when I get to talk to Amber and figure out who she is, why she wrote it, maybe even get to play a part in giving feedback. It just becomes more holistic. of a full story when you get to interact with the people with whom you're excited about reading their work like it's it seems like it's evolving in that way to me on some level is that too crazy or what do you think no I love that I love that how you said that because I I I had the opportunity when I was at the uh book festival to sit down and listen to a few authors and I was like Oh, this is so cool. And out on him. Yeah. Yeah. Getting to know them and getting to listen to them and their personalities and realize that they're funny. And, you know, my book is kind of serious, but I'm a I'm a I'm a funny person. And I think after this, I've got a couple of others, you know, irons in the fire and they're more they're lighter. if you will, because I enjoy a good sarcastic read. But yeah, absolutely. I think that this has strengthened the bonds and strengthened the familiarity of the books that we read and the authors, and it makes it a little more exciting, I think. Yeah, I feel like... It's interesting that you're talking about the... event in austin and going and sitting with authors on some level I feel like the ability to self-publish is sort of democratizing the narrative like we're no longer have to be told this is the greatest writer listen to them this guy's already got ten books listen to this guy's story and it is rinse repeat like so many authors that were considered the best they wrote like the same story over and over again what I'm not taken away from them but like we as readers At some point in time, we were dictated to what is great. And I think now when an individual has the opportunity to publish and become a bestseller, like that democratizes the narrative. And I'm loving what I'm seeing when I see your story come out. And I see so many incredible people writing the story of resilience, writing the stories of what if. writing the stories of I had the courage to do this, like that to me is sort of a swan song to the human condition of like, OK, we're here now. And it may seem scary, but look at this democratization of the narrative. Like all of us are beginning to tell our story. And it seems like each story allows the next person to tell their story on some level. Are you what do you think? Is that the purpose of a story for to inspire people so that they can tell their own story? Oh, I think so. I think it's definitely inspirational and entertaining. And I agree with you a hundred percent. I love that I published on my own. I didn't want to. I tried, but I did. I published on my own. I did it. I learned a few lessons, but I love that I don't have a deadline. You know, I don't have, you know, people ask me, when's your next one going to come out? I'm like, whenever I decide that I'm going to publish it, nobody's telling me when. Nobody's going to tell me how. And I enjoy that aspect. And I also enjoy the aspect that just like you said, that this might inspire, you know, people to just skip that line. Go ahead and do it yourself because it can be done. And how fulfilling is that when you do it yourself? Like, okay, I don't have this publisher. I don't have that. I'll just do it myself. Like what sort of, you know, abilities does that reinforce in the individual? Right? Yeah, exactly. Well, let me tell you, I had to learn, I had to learn so much and I'm still learning. I'm still in the process. And, um, Juliet Clark has helped me a whole lot learning how to navigate this whole thing. I made a lot of mistakes. I spent a lot of money that I shouldn't have. But now, I mean, I think the second one will be a little smoother. We will see. But yeah, it was kind of funny because it was a moment of, yay, I'm published. Now what? Yeah, totally. Yeah, my mom bought it. But so so that's been a little bit of the getting it out there. But from what I understand, if I went with her, if I traditionally published, if I had that option, I have a couple of friends that have done that and they have to promote and they have to do a lot of the same things that I'm doing and give a big old cut of any money that they make to the publishing company. Not that I've made any money. I haven't. But if I were, I wouldn't have to give a big cut to a publishing company. So that's always promising. And I like that it's just, you know, it's available. Anybody can do it. Anybody can do it. Yeah. And it's, you know, it's sort of like... like your commercial baptism to start writing a book. You know what I mean? You realize like, Oh, Oh, I see what's going on here. I thought this, you realize you're the only person to blame, but I still though, you pull back that curtain a little bit and you're like, Yeah. Wait a minute. I thought I was done. Yeah. Yeah. But that's part of learning, right? Like the word discover comes to mind. Like when people talk about discovering something, it's like you have this flash of insight, but really you're just peeling layers off. Like, oh, you discovered it. And then there it is. It's discovering. Oh, and there's another layer. Yeah. And there's another layer. yeah for sure but I got I get to meet people like you and it's been awesome I mean and and uh I I think this is fun and and I would not have ever dreamed in a million years that I would do podcasts I and I'm kind of shy but it's just you and me right yeah you know and and that makes it a lot easier and this is this is I think the future of publishing We're moving away from the guardians that are like, you can't be here. You don't have this last name. You didn't put up this much money. You can't get access to this thing. Now it's like all of us. It's like a bottom up move. Like you can write a really cool book and you can go on a podcast or you can meet a podcast like me that will introduce you to. five of the coolest podcasters that no PR company will even know about. That is growth. That is moving in a direction and reaching an audience that wants to hear your story. And that's the difference between having a big publisher that has a giant cut of money that can send your book to Barnes and Noble. That's the old model. I'm not saying it doesn't still work. It kind of does. But there's a better model emerging, an organic model, the same way that – it's an organic model that that connects authors to their audience you know there's this big idea in publishing you should know your audience like how how do you know your audience until you've written the book and you've connected with people you don't like they're trying to put the cart in front of the horse this is a new better way I think I'm super stoked that you've written it I'm super stoked you're here And I can't wait to introduce you to some other podcasters that will feel the same way about it. Thank you. Yeah, it's awesome. Amber, we blew through this hour like it was five minutes. And I feel like I've gotten to know you. I know, right? It's been an hour. Oh, that's awesome. That's awesome. All right. I was worried for nothing. Nothing, nothing. Like, you know, it's, it's, it speaks volumes of, of a conversation and an author when you can kind of find out what they care about and who they are. And I think that for me, those are reasons why I want to read what somebody writes is when I discover like, what do they do outside of here? Like what do they believe in? And I think we accomplished a lot of that today. And I'm thankful to everybody in the chat who was able to come and ask some questions. And I hope everybody within the sound of my voice will go down to the show notes and they will reach out to your website or reach out to you individually or give you some feedback or maybe pick up your book for a Christmas gift. But you've been very gracious with your time. Would you be so kind as to tell people where they can find you, what you have coming up and what you're excited about? Yeah, absolutely. So you can find me, I'm on Amazon. My pen name is A.L. Willingham. Um, had to do that because I have a law firm. So, um, I had to, you know, separate the two AL Willingham and, uh, I, you can buy my book on Amazon or you can go to www.alwillingham.com. And I have a little blog there, so you can kind of get to know me a little bit better through that as well. And, uh, I have a book number two, um, Bliss Creek is my book number one. And book number two is called Petroleum Wars and it will be out next year. Fantastic. Are you doing like some book signings or is there what's the best way for people to reach you? What's the name of your site again? www.alwillingham.com. fantastic. And so Amber, hang on briefly afterwards, but to everybody within the sound of my voice, go down to the show notes, check out the book. I think you'll love it. And I hope all of you have a beautiful day. That's all we got, ladies and gentlemen. Aloha.