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Most of the powerful, unguarded conversations we have as practitioners happen behind the scenes. This podcast was created to bring those conversations forward. It’s a space for real talk about client work, presence, creating powerful containers for waking others up, embodied change, and the ways we continue to grow and meet our edges as we guide others.
Aila (00:00)
Hi everyone, welcome inside the Practitioner's Path. I'm Ayla.
Barbara Patterson (00:04)
And I'm Barb.
Aila (00:06)
We're excited to talk to you today.
Barbara Patterson (00:09)
We
are. are. Yeah, you know, today, Ayla and I want to talk a little bit about, you know, what is the underlying foundation of our work? And, you know, we are in the process of being in these conversations with people about our upcoming The Practitioner's Path, Five Month Immersion, and...
You know, we're getting that kind of question because people are coming from different places. Maybe they come ⁓ deeply rooted in the three principles or they've heard about it and want to understand it more or they aren't familiar with the three principles but they resonate with us and you know they but they want to deepen their work as well as their own personal ⁓ come from and be in a transformative container.
So we thought it would be interesting as a part of this podcast where we're all practitioners together to start to speak into that ⁓ more here. And we don't have a, as always, we don't have a script or so we may meander a little bit, who knows, but ⁓ hopefully you're meandering with us in your own journey. But one of the things that
Aila (01:30)
Thank
Barbara Patterson (01:34)
For sure, the three principles and the teachings of Sydney Banks and my mentors in those areas have had a significant, significant impact in my work and life. And for those of you that know us and know my story, you know I came to the understanding about 15 years ago now
⁓ And already like spent my adult life in all sorts of personal transformation, professional scenarios, executive development, organizational development. lots and lots of opportunities to be a student and then lots of training on how to teach all kinds of different. So I also came to the understanding with a lot of experience around working with leaders and founders.
around performance and communication and presence, leadership presence and team stuff and facilitation. And so all of that ⁓ in a way is how I would describe it. Kind of had this tool kit and based on who I was talking to or what group I was working with, I might access some of that. And I've done like
I've been so lucky. I know you have too, Ila. I've been so lucky to just do some really cool programs from all over the world. You know, like this one facilitation program where to this day we did this like purple sticky wall and then you spray it with glue and then people write on big index cards and you use it like this whole wall map. I use this example because that wall...
has traveled with me and it's helped me work with two leadership teams around a merger. It's helped me work with entrepreneurs that are brainstorming. And it's just one of those things that sounds so simple, but the framework of it, like I love, and it's a great visual, right? It's a great thing. So yeah, some of it was that, but others of it was very direct, like... ⁓
communication and performance and coaching people and mentoring and how do you develop and how do you have tough conversations and fierce conversations and all of that. and listening. So there's a lot that ⁓ I've been lucky enough to experience. What the three principles did for me, like first of all, I could talk for days around kind of the shifts, but to just
Aila (04:16)
Yeah.
Barbara Patterson (04:20)
hopefully being helpful to this conversation. First of all, it helped me really integrate my spiritual path and my human path. You know, it really had me consider in a profound, deep way who we are innately at our essential nature. And that was no longer external kind of woo-woo, cool phenomenon.
you know, it was, ⁓ no, it's who we are. It's our nature. And going into that direction continues 15 years later to be just like this rich reservoir and, you know, infinite levels of awareness in that direction. But seeing that as core to who we are had me like just in a very practical way. It was like, well,
So I'm showing up to my dreams, to my work goals, to my business goals, to my communication, not just with my learning, not just with my personality and my skills and my talents and all of that. I come to everything I do with this innate capacity for resilience and well-being and creativity and all of that, right? So that was like,
groundbreaking, revolutionary, a complete new place in which I stand. And again, that keeps enriching and deepening and even seeing more and more. And understanding the mind and that left to its own devices it clears, understanding that I don't have to manage thought, but seeing thought, seeing the volume of thinking, seeing how I was oriented to my thinking for answers and...
you know, just understanding I had so much more available to me if I could go beyond thought. You know, again, that just revolutionized the way I moved in my life and in my business and in my relationships. And again, we could spend hours on all the benefits. In addition, there's that piece which the principles, it's like it's all inside out.
Now, that wasn't the first time I'd heard that. I already kind of believed it, but not fully. There was something in the simplicity of the three principles and that just was so helpful to me. All of a sudden, it wasn't all these different things I have to carry in my toolkit. It was a way of being, a way of waking up to a truth that was profoundly altering.
And so, yes, it immediately changed the trajectory of my work and my life. That's just a given. Now, over the last 15 years, I keep staying a student, like all good practitioners, right? You know, we stay a student. We look at our edges. We get curious. We follow our nudges, all of that.
And in that, I've seen deeper. I've seen things around identity. I've seen things around over the last number of years in particular, the last five years. I've seen my habits of mind that keep me from being completely in my life, experiencing it. I've seen a resistance, unconscious resistance to parts of certain feelings, protection. And in seeing that, ⁓ I've been able to drop out of
the mind even more or step into my life and feel more, more aliveness, more of the full range of the human experience. That also has been revolutionary. Now, some people might hear me say that and be like, well, what is that? Is that not the principles? Like, what are you doing now? Because in the principles, feelings are just energy moving through you and feelings come from thought. OK, yes. And thought
and conditioning is a part of our human experience. It's all thought, that's true. But when I started to see habits of mind or kind of the way my nervous system was sort of keeping me a little bit distant from life and from feeling, that was so beautiful because again, the answer in a way is always the same. I can handle it.
Aila (08:44)
Mm.
Barbara Patterson (08:54)
You know, as Sidney Banks said, if everyone just knew not to be afraid of their own experience, right? So that awareness around embody being in my body, I can feel it all, I can have a direct experience. I don't have to rush to my mind to sort it out. And I have some old conditioned kind of patterns in there that started to be illuminated in a really helpful way. it and and by the way, sometimes
Aila (09:00)
Thank
Barbara Patterson (09:22)
those got illuminated because I had a big goal I wanted or something I wanted to shift in my life. Now, you could say from the principles, I'm not saying Sid had said this, but I think in those kind of spiritual communities where really at the core what we're waking people up to is just such a beautiful, profound thing, it can look like we don't want to talk about
patterns. We don't want to talk about behavior too much. We don't want to talk about goals too much because it just gets people in their head. But here's the thing. We work with humans and I'm one too. And there are some goals and things I've wanted to create in my life that have been challenging. And yes, the understanding is always home base, but there's a language and a frame of reference and a different angle of looking that took me there.
Aila (10:20)
Mm-hmm.
Barbara Patterson (10:21)
You know, so seeing like, sometimes when I put a goal out there that I want, what's going to get woken up is all my conditioned thinking, my historical ideas about myself. So what then? Because it's not saying, knowing, knowing its thought and then just telling myself, well, you're still attached and just sort of waiting, hoping one day I'll have some profound insight and it'll be different, wasn't really cutting it.
Aila (10:50)
Yeah.
Barbara Patterson (10:50)
Right?
So there was this language of, I meet what is? Can I meet and allow, take my mind out of the driver's seat, take my mind out of needing to direct it and solve it all, but also not just wait for insight. There is something available other than those two options.
And in that was, it was through the language of friends. And some of this may fall technically in non-duality, but I kind of hate saying that because I don't feel like an expert in non-duality. But the people who I love who really guide in that direction have helped me see like, yeah, this identity of the struggler or those kinds of moments that I go into protective into my head, that there's a direction which is into the body.
and into the direct experience of the sensation, not the story. That distinction has been such a beautiful, helpful resource to allow me to touch what's essential, to allow me to come back to and touch what's essential and also to realize I can meet whatever that sensation is. And in meeting it with presence, things shift. It is all energy.
So it shifts, but if I'm in a cycle of a pattern of avoidance, unintentionally, unconsciously, whatever, I just might not see it. But once I see it, I have a potential path and a way. those are the things that, so in my work, I think sometimes I realized I was trying to sort like, well, maybe I shouldn't be saying these things. Things that would come up.
Aila (12:32)
Mm.
Barbara Patterson (12:47)
just authentically, via wisdom in the moment, I noticed I would start to be like, well, is that right? Should I not be doing that? Is that good? And I'm not listening to wisdom. I'm listening to an idea I have about a group of people and a community and a profound understanding that I'm all of a sudden now in my head logically deciding if I'm breaking a rule or not.
Aila (12:58)
Thank
Barbara Patterson (13:15)
or if I'm being a good steward of something, right? And then it's like, wait a minute, that's so not the point. If you listen to some of those teachers and to Sid, it's like, no, no, like no gurus, none of that. Listen to yourself, touch what's essential in you, and that does the work. But that means I allow what wants to come through me in the way that it does. And my path in trusting that...
Aila (13:22)
Thank
Yeah.
Barbara Patterson (13:41)
The things that have been helpful to me, the path, what's woken up in me is a part of what I have to offer others. So the only, the final thing I'll say, and then I will let you talk. The final thing for now that I want to say is another anchor that the principles have given me is I can tell when I'm making something too complex. So in a session or in my own life,
Aila (13:51)
Now I'll keep...
Barbara Patterson (14:11)
That, like I said earlier, the principles just simplified everything for me in such a profound way. So that's my gauge. Sometimes I kind of feel this nudge to share something, but at the same time, I'm listening and connected, and I'm paying attention. Like, I just create more complexity, and how do I simplify it? How do I come back to what's essential and true, but also not create these
ideas that end up being these containers about I'm right or wrong, am I doing this right or wrong.
Aila (14:47)
Yeah, I hear you. There's a reason we're doing this work together. Yeah, so, gosh, so many things in what you said I related to. ⁓
Barbara Patterson (14:50)
hahahaha ⁓
Aila (15:03)
I think my, yes, just to answer that question of like what is the foundation of the program we're offering? What's the foundation of where we're coming from? I think it's a really like important question. I think it's on everybody's mind who's coming toward us and curious about what we're doing. So I love that we're taking time to dive into it more.
And I know we talked about this in an earlier episode of like, are we looking at or looking for in a session? Where are we coming from? But just to be specific, I feel like I came into a spiritual understanding when I was about 12 through a Buddhist nun and I started meditating.
And every day I had this Walkman, this like, you know, the old cassette tape Walkman, and I had headphones, these like clunky headphones, and I'd wear a hoodie. And I would spend as many hours a day, hours and hours a day listening to Deepak Chopra and Eckhart Tolle and Carolyn Miss and Sonia Chokette. Anybody I could get a tape series around. And my mom was like my, ⁓
my scout, like she'd go and try to find these programs for me. And it was just hours and hours and hours of looking in that spiritual direction. And they were all talking in different ways about the same thing as I heard it.
synchro destiny was like a big thing in my world. And then I remember listening to at that same time, synchro destiny that was really about like manifesting and creating. Simultaneously, I was listening to the power of now for like hours and hours and just kind of alternating. And it was like, okay, do things, but don't do many much. here, do things, but just be present. And ⁓ I say this because I
Barbara Patterson (16:56)
I'm
Aila (17:04)
I feel like I have this passion for looking in this, in a spiritual direction. And, and then, and then, and one thing I didn't realize though, is when I went to USM's spiritual psychology program, I was 19. First 20 minutes of the first like session, somebody said, one of the teachers, Ron or Mary said something like, if you feel, have a feeling, it out.
I was like, wait a second, feelings are bad. Why would I let out a feeling? And it just like popped me out of this idea I had. I had created this whole idea that being a spiritual being meant being unfeeling. And it was, and I had that moment of like, ooh, I don't know if USM is like the path. I'm not sure, but so much of it felt right.
And so I kept my open mind. I was like, okay, let me go see. Are feelings really spiritual? They seem bad to me, but let me go, let's go see. you know, 15 years later, going through USM and just loving that work, ⁓ I decided that feelings are friends and that they're important.
And then really coming into the principles and the work of Sydney Banks and that whole body of work, I kind of went back to like, feelings, not friends. Feelings are just thought. It's so much in what you just said. was like, ⁓ but what I actually saw in there was this deeper way of understanding feelings. And.
Like a good student, like you said, I just kept on looking and kept on learning and kept on growing and really did get into a lot of ⁓ exploration and non-duality. And it felt like not only are feelings friends, but they're like part of the guidance system, part of a pathway into deeper knowing of who we are essentially. ⁓
The body is not against me after all. I thought the body was a problem. ⁓ And I don't know what's next. I'm sure there'll be something next too that's really exciting and deepening.
And I've shared this a lot with Dheeraj, my husband on the path with me now for 17 years of him watching me be a coach, navigate like whole different ideas about what helps people. And one of the things that in my conversations with him at times, I'll say to him, like, feel very disoriented. Like my framework has fallen away.
And I'm just like naked in the sessions and he'll be, he'd be like, Ooh, that sounds great. ⁓ But like, what I see now and the first time the framework dropped away was when I was 19 and I thought I had, you know, seven years of really a deep understanding and how to help people remember who they are as a soul. The first five minutes of that program or so it was like, I don't know anything.
Barbara Patterson (20:01)
No.
Aila (20:25)
I'm supposed to help somebody get present to their feelings. This is totally different than I thought. Okay, let me learn about this way. And I learned that way. And then I learned, you know, USM, there's so much in that. The primary thing that I really saw in that program was that, you know, we're really coming from a soul-centered orientation.
versus an identity or a ego centered. I related to myself differently and other people. I had different eyes for seeing their wisdom and their knowing and no matter their age, that they're full of guidance and health and wellbeing, same as the principals. Like felt like a direct correlation. But when I went from then working with people in a USM kind of model,
I started working with teenagers and they just didn't behave. They didn't want to hear it. They didn't want to do self-forgiveness. It didn't make sense that they're making up judgments and stories that are hurting them. They weren't ready for that. was some of them, most of them. So I felt like again my framework was lost and there I was naked sitting there like, what do I do with you? ⁓
similar moment coming into the principles and just like, okay, I, where do I go in a session when what I think I should be doing doesn't feel right? And I think it's been a process of learning how to trust my presence over any modality. And it's like,
invigorating in a way and like terrifying, but really fun, like really a whole different place to come from inside of a session. And I really appreciate for all the coaches that I mentor and work with that it is, it, it, it requires finding a different place of safety inside. Like I don't get the comfort of knowing I'm going to guide you through this thing and it's going to be great.
We all know that that's a lie if we assume that's going to happen every time. We don't know. But so now I really am a ⁓
a rogue agent out here where I don't know what's going to happen. Sometimes we gestalt in sessions and I am finding myself encouraging people to give their anger a voice and let it out and meet themselves with love. Sometimes we're writing out a vision. The living vision process that USM showed me was like so powerful.
around allowing ourselves to dream and really be honest about what we want. my gosh. The idea that, that we can take steps no matter what we think about ourselves, we can take steps toward things we want. That was like phenomenal through USM. There's like a thousand things I can point to through my,
early years spiritual studying, USM, three principles, non-duality that are all really helpful and embodied. Like I know if you're crying I'm gonna sit there and be like let it out. I love you just how you are right now. I know there's like things that I just I do know and then what happens inside of a session with somebody though is total mystery. ⁓
But I know the foundation of it is we are divine beings or we have a spirit. have a, there's an essence. There's a wisdom in the person sitting across from me. And that really shapes what happens to that. There's a, there's a nothing that they're saying or doing or creating or feeling or thinking that is bad and needs extinguishing or changing.
I'm kind of coming from that place that really does I mean I think that might be my foundation if I could just land on something. That's my new model. It will change tomorrow but no. But that does feel like the through line of ⁓ whole and complete. Nowhere to go, nothing to do. You don't need fixing.
Barbara Patterson (24:48)
You
Aila (25:05)
or managing, or, and if you're suffering and you want to have a deeper experience of your own ⁓ safety or your own well-being, then there's a direction to look and to explore.
But coming from as a coach, think it's profound because of how many kind of bonkers coaching programs there are that say you need fixing and you need to get your shit together and you need to do a hot seat powerful coaching session every time to change the person in front of you into somebody better. And I just, you know, I love all that. And I think it's probably really helpful.
for some people at certain points. But it is a different orientation coming from, like, it's so fun getting to work with you human in front of me because you're already okay and you think maybe a lot of things need to change, but hopefully throughout work you see that you're okay and you're freer than you might think and you're more powerful than you might know and you have...
you know, many resources inside that hopefully we'll wake up to together. I think that's what I'll add, Barb.
Barbara Patterson (26:20)
Well, yeah, and just, you know, I think what you brought up too about where you put your certainty is a really great question for all of us because it's true. Of course, I would love it if I knew that ⁓ just pointing people to thought would ⁓ always create
the environment for them to see something deeply or always pointing people to they have this innate reservoir, this inner being, this true nature. ⁓ But we're just, human and people show up to us with a variety of histories and lived experiences and.
conditioned thought and goals and hearts desires and places that they're wanting to explore and ⁓ shift. And so while the ground, I think, I can put my certainty in the understanding of ⁓ I'll get ideas in a session. If I stay open and listen deeply and just stay the course and
and ⁓ orient to that place. I'll get ideas and then I'll offer those and I'll get more information, you know, and then I'll adjust. So it's that putting my certainty there and also that I know, like we both have said, the most profound impact in our lives is realizing the starting point is whole and complete. ⁓
Aila (27:41)
Thanks, man.
Mm-hmm.
Barbara Patterson (28:06)
Knowing who we are at our essential nature, that we come equipped with these innate resources and resourcefulness is a game changer. ⁓ But pointing people in that direction, the word divine nature may never come up or it may come up all the time. So again, it's starting to allow for the agility within a session. So the problem with
Aila (28:15)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Barbara Patterson (28:36)
You know, in my mind always wants a formula. I just want a formula. Tell me what to do and I'll do it and I'll get what I want or help someone, right? You know, so I so understand it. But what's had way more impact in my own life and in my work is where am I placing my certainty? You know, and learning to get comfortable and more in the full range of the human experience. You know, knowing I'm not a victim, like, thank God it's inside out.
Aila (28:40)
you
crush it, yeah.
Barbara Patterson (29:06)
Thank God it's inside out. And yet there are times when it's so compelling to look like what has to change is the external. And by the way, maybe it does. Maybe it does. Like not for my own well-being, but often there's something in the external world that needs to be addressed or wants to be addressed or the client is interested in or I'm interested in.
Aila (29:09)
Yes.
Yep.
Yes? Yes.
that. ⁓
Barbara Patterson (29:33)
So again,
it's coming back to how does knowing who we are at our essential core, knowing where to go when we need it most, understanding the mind, how does all of that help? But me as a practitioner, sometimes the conversation is through the gateway of what I learned about leadership presence 30 years ago, or sometimes the way a client or a team has me come in to talk about communication.
So I'm talking about all these things, know, the inner climate, I'm talking about the creative intelligence, I'm doing all that in the framework of communication and developing people. So ⁓ again, I think what we're saying is... ⁓
Aila (30:13)
me.
Yeah. Yeah.
Barbara Patterson (30:27)
Letting go of ideas that there's a particular lane of pointing that is better than another, truer than another truth, to me just doesn't feel true. And so my own love of deep experiences, consciousness, expanding.
Aila (30:44)
Yeah, yeah.
Barbara Patterson (30:55)
dropping away old identity, creating things in my life, meeting those edges and seeing what's possible. There's no accident in that. There's no accident that you love that, that you've been meditating since you were 12. And those of you listening, whatever those places you've been doing since, like no accident. And I don't think it's there so that we have to say, I could never again look at that or use that.
Aila (31:17)
Mm-hmm.
Right, yeah.
Yeah. it just, when you said that it reminded me of what, ⁓ like I used to love, ⁓ Boba, ⁓ Boba, tapioca, tapioca pearls. You know what it is? Like bubble tea. Yeah. I call it Boba. ⁓
Barbara Patterson (31:35)
What is boba? ⁓ okay. yes, like the bubble tea kind of. Yeah, yeah, okay.
Aila (31:44)
But when I was like 20 something, I did this cleanse and I felt so amazing. And I was like immediately grieving, like I'll never have boba again because I just don't think it's that good for me. And I was really in this place of, but.
Like really wanting to feel healthier. Did the cleanse. came out of it and immediately it was just like, so sad was like, ⁓ Boba. And then it was, I was sitting with a friend of mine and she was just like, you probably gonna have Boba again. Like this, this is just where you're at right now today. And it was like, yeah. Okay. Okay. ⁓ you know,
It really made sense in my mind this metaphor as you were talking. But, ⁓ know what, yeah, this was it. So you said the inside out understanding was like, know, it is so liberating to really see like, I am experiencing everything I am.
Barbara Patterson (32:33)
Keep going, don't give up. Don't give up.
Aila (32:54)
inside myself, generated from myself through myself. Like this is ⁓ how incredible that nothing out in the world needs to change for me to drop into peace or love or forgiveness or compassion. Like nothing needs to change. my God. Like that to me is ultimate freedom. And then I do these things. Sometimes Deeraj and I joke around about this maybe like twice a year.
where I'm just like, can we just pretend it's outside in and try to make our lives perfect so I can feel better, please? And he's, you know, always up for it. Like, of course, let's do it. What's the perfect schedule and the perfect rhythm and when should the kids go to bed? And how should they feel every day? And like just this kind of indulging.
the really when I think about that it's like indulging the part inside of me that is feeling ⁓ overwhelmed with trying to do it all right. Like with trying to be this perfect student of spiritual awakening or the principles or spiritual psychology and just to be like no no I need things to be perfect in the outside so I can feel good. ⁓
Barbara Patterson (34:03)
Yeah. Yeah.
Aila (34:16)
allowing myself to actually truly indulge, like truly indulge, has been so incredible in this way that
I don't even know how to grab it right, but it's like when I resist that I'm reinforcing an idea that I need fixing.
And when I'm just saying yes to that, that it's like, yes, let's create the perfect environment. So I feel good. I know I'm being delusional, but I'm being so compassionate with myself, which is really what, what I'm, I, what the moment is asking for.
I would never have done that five years ago or 10, 15, 20 years. I wouldn't have, it would have been like, no, I must stay the course. Like I must do the most healthy awakening spiritually aligned behavior. And I just see how much of that was me trying to protect myself or living in an illusion that I do need fixing.
And I think there's, there's something in this that just feels like another foundational thing that truly, even if I know a ton and I know how to do the Prince do, I'm quoting, do the principle, do spiritual psychology, do wherever I'm at in the moment, learning how to meet myself with unconditional love, acceptance, gentleness, compassion, like that's, that's my go-to.
Barbara Patterson (36:03)
Yeah.
Aila (36:04)
And that looks different every day looks different. And then I meet my clients in this way that again, it's not like I'm trying to get them out of their experience. It's more like holding them with a lot of love, bringing in compassion.
Maybe a year ago, every session I did, I would start by reading a Mary Oliver poem, or most of my sessions. And it was just speaking to me in my life. So it was like, if it's speaking to me, I bet it's speaking to others. Let me bring it in. And I do sit and I consider all the groups I run. sit before the groups and I consider, like, what do I think would serve this group today? And I might make a little outline for myself.
It's not that I'm showing up like, don't know what's going to happen client. do you think? Or what do you, you know, it's like, do show up prepared on as many levels as I can be, but it's not scripted and I leave a lot of room for spirit to come in.
Barbara Patterson (37:05)
Yeah.
Yeah, I love that. And that poem is such a great example. know, Anna Debenham, who ⁓ founded the Inside Alliance and have done a lot of work with them over the years and been on the board and mentored teachers and ⁓ been lucky enough to go inside the prison with her. And she starts with the poem every time. ⁓
It struck me like, I think at one point we were having a conversation and she was ⁓ saying something like, know, listen, I know that's not really principal, but it's such a beautiful way to ground everybody into the room. it just really struck me because I know what she means. Like I understand that line of thought, but being a witness to it, was like.
Aila (38:00)
Yeah.
Barbara Patterson (38:04)
⁓ It was so obvious to me that it was a beautiful thing to do. it just, back then, it started to like kind of put me on to the rules thing. the real trap, like rules are thought too, you know? And so how to like dance the gray, right? Dance with the, wait, I'm making things a little complex, let me come back.
Aila (38:06)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
you
Barbara Patterson (38:34)
I'm inspired to have people take a deep breath. Okay. Well, no, I can't do that because that's a technique. You know, like, it's like you can see like what's trying to run the show, some idea of rightness and rules or out of a sincere desire to want to, you know, do right by people. But ⁓ I remember talking to somebody else ⁓ about
Aila (38:40)
Yes.
See ya. Of course.
Barbara Patterson (38:59)
retreat I was creating and I was going to have someone come in and do breath work. And then we were going to do some yoga in the morning if anyone wanted. And she said, ⁓ aren't you worried that that will ⁓ mislead people? And I said, well, what do you mean? And she said, well, people will start thinking that it's the yoga or it's the breath work. And I said, well, don't you do yoga every morning?
And she's like, well, yeah. And I said, is it confusing for you? You know, and I understand the question because I have put the power in the tool. I have put the power outside of me. I have put the power into and, you know, and then like I remember for meditation for so long, I'd be like, ⁓ my day's shot because I didn't meditate in the morning. You know, like I.
Aila (39:30)
Mm-hmm
Yes.
Awesome.
Barbara Patterson (39:53)
I so understand that
what you want to wake people up to is their resource, whether they meditate or not. But here's the thing, sometimes meditation is like medicine in a really beautiful way. It helps me slow down. So again, am I going to say, I could spiritually say I should be more evolved. I should just be able to remember and drop in. No, sometimes wisdom, I have went through a period where I was so crazy internally, like just a lot going on.
Aila (39:59)
Yes.
Yeah.
you
Yes.
Yes.
Barbara Patterson (40:22)
And
I remember waking up one morning and being like, you need to medicate. You need something right now, a structure to help you slow down. I'm grateful for that wisdom. And it's the same. It's like ⁓ I remember one of the kind of ⁓ original or however you want to language, one of the teachers was saying that maybe you shouldn't talk about levels of consciousness with people because it just puts them into their striver mode.
Aila (40:32)
Yeah. ⁓
you
Barbara Patterson (40:52)
and
then they are trying to get to a higher level. ⁓ I was like, ⁓ yeah, I mean, that's me, the striver and the achievement. That's exactly what I did. But what I saw in that conversation was that was an important part of my learning curve. That was important. But to say, I'm not going to talk about levels of consciousness because people can't handle, to me, that's arrogant.
Aila (41:03)
Yeah.
Yes.
Totally.
Barbara Patterson (41:19)
You know?
And it's like, no, no. It's like, yes, Barb did exactly. Your worst scenario was me. But here, it was important. I began to see that. I was like, now I just got to get in a better feeling and everything will be wonderful. I just got to drop in and not care about these things and I'll be the best teacher ever. Like, of course, we all do that. That's a part of the natural. And the idea that we're going to teach something.
Aila (41:25)
Thank
Yeah.
Barbara Patterson (41:46)
that is going to exempt the human experience for people. It just doesn't look possible to me, but we can point people, give them helpful things to wake up more fully to who that is. So, yeah.
Aila (41:56)
Yes. Yeah, literally.
⁓ well, I'm going to just keep talking for a second. Barb, sorry. don't like you wrapping it up. I know. Well, I just wanted to say I love that ⁓ two thoughts and they kind of go together. One is there, I think any
Barbara Patterson (42:02)
Yeah, go for it. And then I think we're going to have to have a couple more of these for sure. Yeah.
Aila (42:17)
practitioner, any coach, anybody that has any kind of framework that they love. And it's just like soothing and magical and it feels good and it's effective. Great. Like there's just want to be clear. Like there's nothing ⁓ we're saying here. That's like ditch them. No, it's more like, can you appreciate
that your presence as the practitioner, your knowing, your clarity, what you resonate with, what's helped you, what's true for you, like all of that is what's making that framework effective. It's the energy flowing through you into that space. ⁓
That's doing it's, you know, it's the, it's the element of change that's happening or the, the healing energy that's happening and, but use the framework. If it's helpful, use it like, my gosh, I would love to, I've loved it when I have felt that way about a framework or a modality. And, and I, and I see that it's like, that can take you far.
you know, really far. And, and there are specific things like yoga and meditation and spiritual psychology and non-duality and the principles that I love being with the practitioner. That's just like all into that. And in fact, last year in the span of seven days, I did a two day, three principles oriented weekend.
or two days, a Thursday and a Friday. And then I did a Saturday and Sunday, totally immersed in spiritual psychology. And then I had two one-on-one sessions with peer non-duality practitioners within seven days, because I wanted to see something deeper for myself around the suffering I was in. And I don't, it's like, I wasn't confused. It was like, I'll use anything.
Barbara Patterson (44:24)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Aila (44:27)
Any, and to me, all of it has the same foundation. All of it does. We're spiritual beings having a human experience. We're whole and complete. The less fear we have about our human experience, the better we feel. If feeling better is what we're going for, which I tend to be. Maybe that'll go away when I'm done micro parenting. I'll be less concerned with feeling good because I feel like feeling better.
Barbara Patterson (44:32)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Aila (44:55)
helps me be kinder to my children and I care a lot about that right now. And I'll use anything. So I think just to emphasize that, that like do anything that's helpful and also rest assured if it stops being helpful, you're still helpful. You can still show up and be a profoundly helpful presence for somebody.
Barbara Patterson (45:11)
Yeah.
And you have a gauge. We all have a built-in gauge that will help us when we're on our own path trying to live our life. Our bodies, know, that deeper wisdom intelligence, the body will tell us, like, we'll get constricted, we'll start ruminated, we'll get bogged down, we'll get urgent, high adrenaline, like those are all the clues that, okay, wait a minute, I've lost my bearings a little bit. So we'll know how to come back and check in.
and then see and adjust if and when we need it.
Aila (45:54)
Yeah, we're just a walking ball of wisdom and learning how to listen to it and decipher the codes. It's really helpful.
Barbara Patterson (45:55)
So.
Yeah.
And it sounds so
trite, but maybe it's just to say that another way of kind of talking about this is to allow what's been really present, alive, deep, meaningful for you to serve your work and worry less about rules. And if we take the imaginary constraints away,
Aila (46:24)
Yeah.
Barbara Patterson (46:31)
you'll naturally access a wider range within you to be of service to people and it will feel more natural. And then when your mind jumps in and says, was that not this? I break a rule? It's like, okay, hi, you again? Next.
Aila (46:47)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well said.
Barbara Patterson (46:54)
Well, as always, thanks for hanging with us, everybody. More to come.
Aila (46:59)
Bye.