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If you are seeking new ways to increase your ROI on marketing with your commerce platform, or you may be an entrepreneur who wants to grow your team and be more efficient with your online business.
Talk Commerce with Brent W. Peterson draws stories from merchants, marketers, and entrepreneurs who share their experiences in the trenches to help you learn what works and what may not in your business.
Keep up with the current news on commerce platforms, marketing trends, and what is new in the entrepreneurial world. Episodes drop every Tuesday with the occasional bonus episodes.
You can check out our daily blog post and signup for our newsletter here https://talk-commerce.com
Brent Peterson (00:01.806)
Welcome to this inaugural episode of what I'm calling Content in Commerce or Content in AI or some variation of that. Today we have Kate Bradley from Lately. Kate Lee from Lately. And we're gonna talk about how machine learning is involved with content creation. So Kate, go ahead, give us an introduction, tell us your day -to -day role and give us a passion that you have.
Kate Bradley Chernis (00:10.268)
Thank you.
Kate Bradley Chernis (00:27.196)
Brent, I adore you and certainly one of my passions is connecting with people online, which we're both so good at and we become friends, which is kind of amazing. But I am the CEO of Lately and Lately leverages neuroscience -driven artificial intelligence to key into the exact messaging that'll get you the highest.
sort of performance in your marketing efforts wherever you are on social media. That's the short version, which is hard to do. And I'm testing it out. Let's see, any other passions? I'll tell you that. Okay, this is so crazy and snobby, but recently we've become caviar aficionados, but not like that. It sounds so terrible.
Just trout roe or salmon roe the kinds that are like bubbly that you can pop in your mouth Which is funny and it you know You can have it over three nights like a little jar of it with we cheat and we don't get Bellini's we we get Brown rice crackers that are not salted so it's a little healthier and then they have I live in New York, but we found Vermont creme fraiche, which I'm from Vermont So yes, you just like put a little dollop on there put on your little spoonful of caviar and then
like dill or something like chives from the garden. And we feel super fancy. And we've been doing it like, I don't know, every couple of weekends, the last few weekends.
Brent Peterson (02:03.249)
Wow, that's cool. IKEA used to have a version of some version of caviar. It wasn't called caviar, but it was the Swedish IKEA version. You had to assemble it, it came out flat.
Kate Bradley Chernis (02:04.604)
It is cool.
Kate Bradley Chernis (02:08.796)
Yeah.
Kate Bradley Chernis (02:17.34)
hahahaha
Brent Peterson (02:18.705)
But in all seriousness, when they first opened, they had some kind of a version of that. Their market has completely changed. They opened and they had all kinds of Swedish stuff, and now it's just generic American stuff that's made in China. Yes, nobody bought the Ludafisk and nobody bought the... yeah. They did have Ludafisk that first couple of Christmases. In Minnesota, anyways, they had Ludafisk.
Kate Bradley Chernis (02:33.916)
they'd have been no less by now
Kate Bradley Chernis (02:38.78)
God, who would?
Kate Bradley Chernis (02:44.988)
Yeah, we saw it too. In the tube, there was something in the tube, remember?
Brent Peterson (02:50.77)
Ludafisk is like a lye based fish. It's horribly smelling. So yeah anyways So Kate before we start I'd like you to I would like to tell you a joke It's them calling. This is my free joke project all you have to do is say it give me a rating of for the joke of one through five and I have a very very poor joke today But maybe we'll we'll revisit a different one that I have later, but here we go
Kate Bradley Chernis (02:55.58)
heard.
Kate Bradley Chernis (03:08.668)
Okay, I'm ready.
Kate Bradley Chernis (03:17.628)
I'm ready.
Brent Peterson (03:18.994)
Why couldn't the green pepper practice archery? Because it didn't habanero
Kate Bradley Chernis (03:30.62)
I'm gonna do a four on that one. Maybe a 4 .5 because I really like puns. And only on the delivery, I'm taking a point off on the delivery. Like I think you could have paused a little bit before the, I'm just messing with you. I thought it was so great. Can I have that joke? Because I've been feeding jokes into lately. Yeah, and they're dad jokes. So like that's just perfect. To kind of like divvy up.
Brent Peterson (03:31.985)
Yeah. Okay.
Yeah.
Brent Peterson (03:50.674)
Kate Bradley Chernis (03:59.26)
the results we give to people. Sometimes you just need a funny break to jump in there. So I'm going to write that down. It was a green pepper? Wait, say it one more time. Why didn't the green pepper to what?
Brent Peterson (04:05.811)
Yeah, absolutely.
Brent Peterson (04:10.867)
Yeah.
Brent Peterson (04:15.188)
Why didn't... Why couldn't the green pepper practice archery? Because it didn't have an arrow.
Kate Bradley Chernis (04:22.14)
practice archery.
Kate Bradley Chernis (04:26.766)
I'm easy.
Brent Peterson (04:26.772)
And I put these on TikTok, so I have to, I try to get them done in, you know, 15 seconds. Other.
Kate Bradley Chernis (04:32.06)
Do you deliver them? I'm assuming over video. Are you dancing through it?
Brent Peterson (04:37.625)
No, it's just like this. I would like to do a dad joke -off. So like, you know, it would be great to... One of the ideas that I came up with was, let's do a podcast for, you know, 10 minutes and just do joke -offs.
Kate Bradley Chernis (04:45.66)
Yeah.
Brent Peterson (04:59.349)
and then we'll take the, I'll edit the video down and just come up with a, you know, a 30 second, a bunch of 30 second TikTok versions. So each person has to come to the, each person has to come with some jokes. So maybe five minutes of jokes, which is actually a long time. So, but.
Kate Bradley Chernis (05:07.132)
I love it.
Kate Bradley Chernis (05:16.476)
That is a very long time actually.
Brent Peterson (05:18.932)
Well, the whole point is editing.
Kate Bradley Chernis (05:21.084)
Right. So a couple things that I wanted to share with you. Number one of related note, we worked with a company called Levity Live, which they own the video rights to pretty much every comedian you've ever heard of. And so they ran a Drew Carey special through our algorithm and lately clipped up all the best jokes. And...
I didn't realize it, but then someone else was saying, so have you literally found the algorithm for humor? And I was like, well, that's a great use of AI that we haven't even thought of. But then the counterpoint to that, my husband was reading an article, I don't know where it was, yesterday that said the people who are leading the AI movement are in creating.
companies are for the most part liberal studies majors, which I was, because the one thing AI can't replace is the creativity, right? Which is where joke telling also comes from, you know? And the delivery, I think.
Brent Peterson (06:36.056)
Yeah, I think the problem with...
The problem that I see right now with content creation and AI in the creative process is that it does just water everything down. Grammarly is a great solution for helping you with grammar, but it also makes your text extremely bland. And it wants to take out all the little nuances that make you who you are. So I do agree, and I'm very fascinated by all these new private models that are coming.
Kate Bradley Chernis (06:57.436)
Yeah.
Brent Peterson (07:08.331)
out for AI and I did find somebody that had come up with a... If you Google AI private model or AI model that you can download and run on your local machine, there is a solution out there. It's just a paper somebody wrote. Nobody has gotten past the point of finding that. And if you ask like chat GPT or Claude or any of them, any of the models, what...
Kate Bradley Chernis (07:08.956)
Hmm.
Kate Bradley Chernis (07:25.372)
There you go.
Brent Peterson (07:36.185)
give me some good jokes, they'll give you horrible jokes. And I have great examples on my Talk Commerce website of horrible e -commerce jokes that were written by Chad GPT.
Kate Bradley Chernis (07:48.06)
Yeah, it can't read the room, right? And neither can Grammarly, right? So Grammarly's boss is Emily Post. And, you know, Emily Post hasn't evolved. She's still, you know, back in those old kind of ways, elbows off the table, all the things. You know, that's kind of like segue, but I was just thinking, I'm about to get on an airplane this week and...
Remember we used to dress up to go on the airplane. My husband still does he always wears a suit He always looks really super nice. That's because they always frisk him at the TWA thing for some reason like he always gets flagged, wanded. I usually wear something nice -looking but like athletic because I want to be able to open that emergency door in case I have to throw someone out it or whatever but like what I can't and I'm sorry if I'm offending you or anybody else what I can't get over right now is wearing pajamas to the airport and
Sometimes people are wearing their blankets and flip -flops and you're like good god have you no sense of like you're seeing your these are strangers, you know Is that is that old I'm old?
Brent Peterson (08:57.98)
Yeah, I fly, I mean, I used to fly to Europe more. And if you were to sit in, not that I would sit in first class very often, but there would be lots of people that would actually change into pajamas. And then as you're landing, they'd change back into the regular clothes. Yeah.
Kate Bradley Chernis (09:13.884)
change back. There you go. That's totally reasonable.
Brent Peterson (09:16.861)
I now fly to a lot to Hawaii and we don't do a long haul flight but I do wear socks with my Birkenstocks as my dress up. Yeah. Cause you never know when you have to flip off your flip flops and you gotta walk through TSA with your bare feet.
Kate Bradley Chernis (09:27.196)
There you go. That's allowed. That works. That's allowed.
Kate Bradley Chernis (09:35.388)
That's disgusting. Yeah, I'm totally with you. Anyways, I'm always astonished. Like the people watching is just like slobs. Everybody does a slob. Anyways, that someone that's, I don't know if AI can help us with this at all, but the dignity, I think we need to retain as humans for sure. Part of that on the AI note comes with the ability to analyze what it's doing.
and to make sure that it is representing us or you or the work you wanted to put out for you in a way that's appropriate for whatever your audience is. And I think that's the challenge, right? That's where the human still must lead and fill the role. However, as you well know, the slobbiness spills over here as well, because people are like, fuck it.
Let's just, whatever that thing said, let's just do that, you know.
Brent Peterson (10:39.006)
Yeah, I think that laziness and so I want to drill in on a couple points today for AI and content. The first one is what you were saying, the laziness in AI content and then the laziness in human editors as they look at it. I think that's a big problem. And then obviously the content generation and creativity is the next one. I think what your solution and your solution has been around for a long time.
Can I say it's been around for nine, 10 years? Yeah. So, right. Yeah. And that was before the Gen .ai thing even became a buzzword.
Kate Bradley Chernis (11:09.34)
Ten years. Yeah. Hard to believe. A decade.
Brent Peterson (11:21.44)
Just tell us a little bit about the difference between analyzing and reading and then breaking it into bits Compared to and learning a voice I mean, I think the key point to there is learning all the models we're using aren't actually learning about us unless you make your own little private model So talk a little bit about how important it is for that voice to happen
Kate Bradley Chernis (11:42.428)
Yeah, I mean, so a couple of points to, I should tell people what we do. So let me do that first. And then we'll talk about some of these points, which I think are so important. So you know this about me, Brent. So I used to be a rock and roll DJ. My last gig was broadcasting to 20 million listeners a day for XM Satellite Radio. And my Uber power was.
turning listeners into fans or customers into evangelists. And that's a big difference, right? And that's what as marketers, content creators, that's the holy grail. We wanna get stuff done. We want people to do what we want them to do, click, buy, share, like, whatever. But then if you can get the beyond, like the bed, bath and beyond, right? You want people to be your evangelists and to share for you and build a natural flywheel. And...
I started to learn about the neuroscience of what makes that possible, at least in listening to music. And then I was able to understand what that did with writing as well. So when you become a voracious reader, how do you become so involved in the story that you feel like you have an ownership of it? And there was a parallel that has to do with the theater of the mind in these two instances, right? So.
when you're listening or when you're reading, your brain has to fill in the blanks. It's not the case with video, right? Video, you just give everybody everything and they lie back and it watches over them and that's why we veg out, quote unquote, right? But so for the theater of the mind to kick in, your brain has to access memory, emotion, and nostalgia to sort of kick in there. And similarly, when your brain listens to a new song,
It's running down every other song you've ever heard in this quick moment and it's trying to find, okay, well, what are the familiar touch points so I know where to log this new song in the memory of my mind. And when it does that, guess what? Same deal. Nostalgia, memory, emotion, same parts of the brain. So there's a connection about that powerful feeling we get. And then the third thing I started to think about was like, all right, well, when Brent writes me an email and I read it, I'm actually hearing his voice in my head.
Kate Bradley Chernis (14:07.772)
And his job is to convey his voice. Like I have resting bitch face in email, so I have to use like a lot of emojis, capital letters, you know, italics, that kind of thing. And what I'm doing, what I'm writing is I'm trying to figure out, well, how do I trigger nostalgia and memory and emotion in my writing to have the same strong feeling of ownership and connection happen in the conversation? So Lately does that. Its job is to identify what messaging will get you these sort of
outcomes and specifically we work on social and it is a private database and you know all those kinds of things so the analytics piece we were just touching on is so important because when the results from the AI come out if you can't tell it if it's done a good job or a bad job thumbs up or thumbs down then it can't possibly learn right and similarly I like to think about like a calculator look I have one I
I actually don't actually use a phone. I have a calculator because I like the buttons. But when you type something into a calculator and the result comes out, you need to be able to know how to do long division, essentially, so you can make sure the answer is right. So you didn't, you know, your big thumb didn't hit the wrong button kind of thing, right? So it's the same idea. If you don't know how to write, if you're a poor writer and you're using AI for a reason,
content creation and writing, for example, you're not going to be able to do a good job analyzing what results come out, perpetuating that laziness. One more thing that comes into play here, which is this. So globally, there's a massive skills vacuum of analytic skills across every industry. They can't find people who can identify problems because for almost three decades now, we've all been told.
Don't bring me problems, bring me solutions. So you can think, I have some friends who are teenagers, her kids are teenagers, and they know that they can ask chat CPT, or they know that they can ask Google a question, but they don't know what to ask.
Brent Peterson (16:19.751)
Yeah, I mean, those are such great points. And I think that people forget that it's not a finished answer.
once it's done and my experience especially with ChatGPT in coming up with numbers is that it misses, it's horrible at calculating numbers and even, you know, I would say how many dad jokes did I post and it would say nine and I'm like, okay, I can see that I've only given you seven.
Can you just tell them, can you recount it? I'm so sorry. Yes, you're right. Upon further reflection, I can see that I've only posted seven. I'm just giving, you know, that it's and that's truth, right? That's exactly what happens. So I think the importance of having a human at the back end to make sure that that content is what you actually want to say to the world is the most important part. And whether whether or not you're using it to.
to write an article or just to come up with a solution, you're right, asking the question is the hardest part and that's what people have the hardest part, yeah, the prompt part is hard. But then the next part is that I think that the next piece is that laziness that is involved with not actually looking at the content that was produced and just sending it to the world.
Kate Bradley Chernis (17:28.572)
The prompt. Yep.
Kate Bradley Chernis (17:43.772)
Yeah, and that's the what we find is, you know, we work with sort of two kinds of people. We work with the buyer who's usually the boss and the boss cares about making money. And then we work with the user, which is usually a minion of sorts. Not always the case, but mostly the case. And the minion cares about going to lunch. Right. And what they want to do is just be done with it. Get it off my plate. Check. Right. So nothing about efficacy. That's not part of the priority.
And this is really frustrating for us time and time again, because these two people are not aligned in what their objective is. And these, this is small companies and very large companies. So it's often shocking. You're like, you know, wow. And so we're constantly educating around marketing best practices, AI best practices. You know, like I didn't think I would have to be in the
I didn't think that selling marketing software would also include educating marketers on how to do their job. But it sure does.
Brent Peterson (18:54.219)
Yeah, so let's jump into Lately a little bit and tell us a little bit about how your solution learns from the users and learns from the interaction between users.
Kate Bradley Chernis (19:08.668)
Yeah, so we are not a large language model. We're not a language model. We're the algorithm. That's what we do. And the data that we're looking at, first and foremost is your data. So we're studying your social media analytics specifically. You log in and you authorize us to go look at your Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, or whatever it is. And we're able to study everything that you're publishing over the last year and create a...
benchmark here and rate rank it right and then we're looking inside that ranking of the patterns within so when when you write well why what what makes it good you know what are the words the phrases the sentence structures the grammar even the content itself like is it a link in text or video in text etc and then the second pattern we're looking at is well what makes your unique audience
Emote, what makes them take action. Click like, comment, and share, what makes them do something. And so now that we can see this, we're testing it with you all the time. We're checking in, checking back in to make sure it's true, and we're asking you, the human, to make it sure it's true, because life changes and trends change, right? And every result that we generate for you based on this model where we're learning who you are, every time you thumbs up or thumbs down it, or make any change, any kind of edit, for example, the AI is like,
thank you for teaching me, right? And it gets smarter and smarter. And then, gosh, you asked me another question and I forgot it. I started answering it this way. and taking from different data sets, right? Yeah, yeah, okay. So the second place, so you are the first, you're my customer, so you're the primary source of energy of learning. If you're not so good at what you do,
Brent Peterson (20:46.124)
Yeah, it was just about how learning is so important. Yes.
Kate Bradley Chernis (21:04.412)
then we go to a couple other places to help you out. The second place is me. I got Walmart 130 % ROI year over year for three years on social media. I write LinkedIn posts that get 86 ,000 views. So we taught lately a series of my generic best practices that worked for all the clients I used to have. And it will bolster your content with my best practices. And again, you have the option of being like, I don't like that, or I do like this, right?
And then the third place it goes is to my brand. We've been marketing ourselves for 10 years through our own AI. And so the brand has picked up a bunch of best practices that it can ask you about as well. And the fourth place we look at is I'll never share your data with anybody, but I can see the patterns of all the customers that we've ever worked with and get a general idea of what works well for other people at large or people in your industry, et cetera, and make recommendations based on that.
Brent Peterson (22:02.095)
You said earlier you're not a large language model. Tell us the difference and how or tell us how you're different from chat GPT.
Kate Bradley Chernis (22:10.683)
Yeah, so my friend David Mermin Scott, who I, if you don't know him, I gotta introduce you to him. He'll be a great guest for you. David was, I think the eighth person hired at HubSpot and he's on their board and he's on my board. So, and he wrote this book you probably know called Fanocracy, which is all about how the grateful dead turn listeners into fans or customers into evangelists, right? So David has a great way of,
answering that question, which he says there's only two questions that matter, which are who's data and who's math. And if you think of AI that way, it becomes very easy. So with Lately, it's your data and my math. With ChachiBT and anybody else, it's public data and generic math. Right? So there can't, it's impossible for there to be any customization at all.
Now, even with private data sets, like those, we have a continuous performance learning loop because we have access to your analytics, but no other AI works that way. So it can't check in to create a baseline and rank content, right?
Brent Peterson (23:25.551)
Yeah, yeah, no, yes.
Kate Bradley Chernis (23:26.94)
So that's the difference is like, and this is in part some of the laziness is because people, it's so, it's such a shame Brent, people, communication is who we are as humans. This is a basic function like clothing and eating and shelter, right? We must be able to do it. And the whole world just raised their hand over the last two years and said, we hate writing. We hate it, which I already knew. I've been doing this for 10 years.
But I mean, it's overwhelming. And so I'm, I am concerned that we're going to be like going back to, I always think of Ringo Starr and Caveman, like, are we just going to start grunting at some point? You know, I mean, Jesus, but, but this, the difference is you have to ask yourself, what do I want to get done? How effective do I want to be? Now the basics are take out the trash, do your homework.
Don't forget to pick me up a beer, buy my stuff, right? All communication is about getting people to do what you want them to do. And when we forget that, then it's a non thing, right? So when marketing becomes creating, not even becomes, this is already the case, it is creating content for content's sake. Those who succeed know that's not the case. They're out for communication. You know what I mean?
So anybody's doing it for the, so if you're typing into ChatGP or whatever, like write me 80 social posts on that, you know, great or bad dad jokes. I don't know. And analyze it for me. Great. I mean, you'll, you'll get some content and it might be really interesting, but you'll never know if it's going to be working for your audience because there's no way for anyone to know.
Brent Peterson (25:18.036)
Yeah, that's really good. And it's sort of like Groundhog Day, unless you're giving it some instructions up front in your prompt every single time, you are essentially starting over or starting with a newer model. And I think a lot of people have seen that, especially with chat GPT, that it does change a little bit over time. Sometimes it gets a lot worse and sometimes it's better and it's never consistent. I think that's the key, right? It's not consistent.
Kate Bradley Chernis (25:47.036)
Yeah. Well, there's all these dummies using it. Sorry. But like, you know, a lot of people are putting bad information or bad prompts into it and making it stupider.
Brent Peterson (25:48.18)
Brent Peterson (25:58.23)
Yeah, that's another really good point is that because it is such a large language model that it is so dependent on what people are putting in. And as they keep updating it and there's some public forums where you can actually see when that cutoff dates are for some of these large ones that...
that input is now also connected to something that happened three, four months ago. I think maybe chat GPT is March of 22 or 24 or something, or maybe it's 23. I don't know. But the point is that it is essentially old.
data that somebody's been putting in and it's not going to learn what you're giving it. And that I think the difference is what you're what you've been talking about is that you're continuously learning and you're starting with your base set of information that that lately has fed it as opposed to the whole world feeding it.
Kate Bradley Chernis (26:56.348)
Yeah, because I think what we're all doing is we're making an assumption that, and we've already made this assumption, that crowdsourcing knows best, right? That's the assumption. Crowdsourcing versus curation. And the pendulum swings both ways, right? So yeah, crowdsourcing can be great. It can be very democratic. You can get lots of different kinds of points of views, all very valuable. But then curation has its own set of values as well. I mean, you get the,
Usually it's much higher quality. Someone who's become an expert on this thing. There's a trust factor there and you're getting a real opinion. You're getting that, you're getting that je ne sais quoi. You're getting the human sort of taste there, that individual thing. The difference I see in radio, for example, is a good one. Radio used to be a thing, people, by the way, which is you develop a relationship with a curator. And when you have a relationship,
By curator, I mean anybody who's, you are, Ben, Brent, if you're wielding the mic or wielding the pen, someone who is designing an art show, somebody who has a boutique and like the different clothes they choose to sell out of it, right? So some human is behind this taste, this brand, this idea, this vibe or whatever. And you go there because you start to identify, your favorite restaurant is a great, there's a million Italian restaurants, right? I go to,
to the red onion. I don't know if I could call them specifically Italian, but I'm, I don't know, maybe American bistro cuisine, but like, I like the way they make mussels and they shuck oysters better than honestly anyone in the world personally. And I'll go there for the rest of my life. Right? And I'm glad to pay a lot of money to be there because I trust that it's always going to be wonderful and they're always going to be nice. They make me feel.
Special and all the things I want to feel and so you can't get that from Spotify, right and I use Spotify But I'll never get that and so the question is is how much you know again Food is a good thing because we went to fast food and then slow food right? So it was like fast food is great. It's fast, but it's not very good for you And so we're back to slow food even though it can be pain in the ass a very expensive But people want this feeling, you know and kovach showed us we're all willing to pay quite a lot for that now
Kate Bradley Chernis (29:21.436)
Right? So, so AI will have the same, I mean, everything goes this way, right? Everything will have the same kind of idea. I think people need to be, they just need to be educated. We have this thing that we're fighting against, Brendan, you know it already, which is people think that AI is like a human. They can talk to it like a human. They just think it's a super smart human. It doesn't have an understanding of those nuances to ever answer you in a way a human would. It can't possibly do that, you know?
because it can't understand the variances of the questions you're asking and that there might be some other perspective or et cetera. And then the second thing is AI is not like AI. It's not really artificial intelligence. It's really automation. It's the ability to analyze huge
swaths of data much, much faster, enormously faster than a human possibly could. I mean, I can't go through that many dad jokes. There's no possible way. So I think when you know that, that you can A, remember what your expectations are with AI, understand what it actually really is. It's not R2D2 or C3PO.
or ET or Arnold Schwarzenegger. It's just a computer. Great.
Brent Peterson (30:59.486)
Yeah, I want to talk a little bit about...
the solution and we also started a new company that is built around AI but involves humans. And one thing that it doesn't do or can't do is, well, A, you need that human to edit it and read it to make sure it's consumable by another human, not by Google. Because nobody, no matter what, Google isn't going to buy something from you and they're not gonna stop into your bakery and get a donut.
But, okay, so the second part is that deliverability, and I think, you know, Lately is great at that, is great also at the deliverability part because you need to make sure you have a queue of content out there. Talk a little, right, feed the beast, right, and how people have to be.
Kate Bradley Chernis (31:45.148)
You have to feed the beast, that's right, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Brent Peterson (31:51.391)
in tune with the cadence of content. And you can't just, I think the other thing that people are doing now is they're dumping 20 blog posts in an afternoon all marked.
Kate Bradley Chernis (32:01.596)
All right.
Brent Peterson (32:02.911)
you know, June 17th, and they're five minutes apart, and they're not thinking about how that deliverability should go. So, you know, we have a few minutes left here. Why don't you just tell us a little bit about the importance of that deliverability part of the content, whatever it is. It could be a social post or a video, and how that has to be, it has to be delivered at the right time.
Kate Bradley Chernis (32:08.016)
Yeah.
Kate Bradley Chernis (32:27.356)
Right. So exactly. I'm so glad you brought this up. So the old marketing adage was seven times. That was the magic number that a consumer had to see, hear, watch, understand your message before it sunk in, the brand sunk in. That number is 24 now. So it's quite a bit higher. So that quantity, the feed the beast must be there, right? You do have to have a lot and a lot, a lot, a lot. But you also have to have...
The variants because humans are multifaceted. We can smell spam and fakeness, you know miles and miles away We don't tolerate it anymore. So you can't just say to me have a coconut smile 50 ,000 times over I'm not gonna respond you have to appeal to you know, all my different sensibilities There's 54 sensibilities that move people to do what they do according to my friend David Allison at value graphics and the sensibilities can be like
community, productivity, environment, family, things like that. And just point proof, like you have to alter your message in that way. So what Lately is doing is it's actually analyzing the content that you're bringing to it. And it's looking for those multifaceted messages and then lining them up for you so that you can, excuse me, hit people in all those different ways. But the second thing it's doing is it's taking a page right out of
Chris Anderson's book the long tail and Helping you find the right cadence and drip feed as you were pointing out of when is the best time to and be able to adjust that time, you know to hit people kind of with your with your message so it's the quantity we talked about as well and as you pointed out the sensitivity of like when do you unleash that quantity and How can you you can't you I mean?
I know it's so people want to just automate everything, but like, let me tell you one story if I haven't told you before this. So Betty Crocker releases Cake in a Box, which we've all had before. I like the Molten Lava Chocolate one, what it's Devil's Food Cake, I love that. And with some powdered sugar frosting, heaven. Anyways, when they released the Cake in a Box, all you had to do was add water. And the Howe's Wives, who they were marketing it to,
Kate Bradley Chernis (34:50.044)
thought this is too weird. I didn't bake anything. And so they didn't buy it. And so Betty Crocker took the powdered eggs out of the box. And their slogan became just add an egg. And it sold like hotcakes, hotcakes because the housewives now felt they had ownership in the automation in the AI, right. And so there's a, the reason and we're talking about collaborative AI right now is what's
this is technically called when humans and AI produce together. Collaborative AI outperforms AI alone 7x. There's a reason why we want you to make an effort as opposed to make no effort because the results will be, will skyrocket like cake in a box.
Brent Peterson (35:36.615)
Yeah, that's fantastic. And I live right across the street from the General Mills headquarters. Not across the street, but very close. Yeah. So, no, it's just a giant office building. They have a test center. Like they have a, you know, Skunk Works or whatever they call it. They don't call it Skunk Works in the food business. I wonder why. All right, so.
Kate Bradley Chernis (35:44.06)
Do you? Amazing. Can you smell all the foods? No.
Kate Bradley Chernis (36:01.948)
right now.
Brent Peterson (36:06.567)
Before we close out, I want to give you a chance to do a short little pitch about Lately. Tell us how we find you. Tell us why we should be using it. Tell us your differentiator. Yeah.
Kate Bradley Chernis (36:20.956)
Thank you. That's so nice. So we're lately .ai. We are again in the business of finding the words that will make your customers do what you want them to do. And our customers enjoy on average 12 ,000 % increased engagement, 245 % more clicks, 80 % cost savings on and on because it's AI, right? And we're really sort of proud of that. We are a full service social media management platform. So the content.
that the AI creates, you can publish it wherever you want. You can automatically do the drip feed, a la Chris Anderson, like all this stuff that we're talking about. And those sensitivities are built into it. We released a self -service product recently, Brent, I don't know if you've ever seen it, but we're really trying to learn with our customers and figure out how can you make AI more accessible? How can you make marketing more accessible? These things that feel so...
hard to do for so many people. So we're pretty excited about that and really just like doubling down on the neuroscience behind the artificial intelligence that we've produced. So it's gonna be a fun summer, that's for sure. And anybody can reach out to me, I'm in all the places. Kate Bradley, Kate Bradley -Churnas, Kate Lee, just tell them that you met me with Brent and that'll be nice to you.
Brent Peterson (37:42.697)
That's awesome. And will you be at the HubSpot Summit again this fall? We did. You came to HubSpot. Yeah, yeah. Yep.
Kate Bradley Chernis (37:48.06)
I can't believe we didn't meet at that. And we know we did. You came and hugged me, didn't you? Yes. thank God. I was shell shocked. I was like so tired. Who there was someone one of my investors was there and I didn't meet him. That's who it was. Yikes. I will not be at inbound this year. I'm going to France on a vacation that I haven't taken a vacation where I took a vacation on the vacation in five years. And I'm going to do that this year. And I'm I just started Duolingo to.
resurrect the French that I learned in school and I'm taking a lot of notes about how I can steal their Software ideas and put it into my own because it's so great
Brent Peterson (38:27.371)
Yeah, I have Duolingo Max and I keep thinking it's gonna, and I have a seven year streak and I still can, I can still barely speak. I have good vocabulary because I do it every day obviously, but I don't, I think the next key, it is part of that collaboration. You need to actually practice it with humans, not a phone, but anyways. Yeah, sorry. Next time. All right.
Kate Bradley Chernis (38:30.072)
yeah, me too!
Kate Bradley Chernis (38:34.812)
Wow!
Kate Bradley Chernis (38:46.3)
Yeah.
you're on Spanish so we can't practice together. Damn it. Well, that's my next language. I'll work on that.
Brent Peterson (38:57.419)
perfect. Kate Bradley from Lately .ai. It's been such a pleasure. Thank you so much for being here.
Kate Bradley Chernis (39:03.42)
I love you, thank you.