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What else can I be doing to drive revenue? How do I optimize our go-to-market strategies to ensure effectiveness and ROI? If questions like these keep you up at night and occupy your thoughts by day, have we got a podcast for you.
Welcome to Market Mastery presented by The Bridge Group, the podcast where sales professionals learn to advance their careers. Join host and revenue expert Kyle Smith as he talks to elite B2B sales and revenue experts about the strategies they're using to win in the market.
From cultivating a killer company culture to navigating compensation questions, we'll provide you with the insights, education, and strategies you need to thrive.
For more from The Bridge Group, visit www.bridgegroupinc.com.
Rachel Downey [00:00:00]:
And at the end of the day, people buy from people, they don't buy from brands. And so when you think about how do I create my content, how do I get my marketing in a spot that people feel like it's relatable, it's approachable, it gets me all that kind of stuff, it has to come from the most human form. And I think that that's why I love video and podcasting so much, is because it's such a more natural avenue for humans to share our stories.
Kyle Smith [00:00:26]:
Welcome to Market Mastery, the podcast dedicated to uncovering revenue driving strategies for sales leaders in B2B tech. On today's episode, I was joined by Rachel Downey, who's the founder and CEO of Share Your Genius. They are the podcast production and all things content company who are really the only reason why this podcast exists and the ones who help us think about how do we deliver amazing messages to our audience that they found valuable. And Rachel and I talked about how she founded the company, some of the lessons learned along the way, how she's grown, broken the company down, grown it back up again, and it was a really great conversation where we got to dive into some of how she thinks about client engagements, content marketing strategy more holistically, and how to continuously sell more of her services. Great episode. Hope you enjoy.
Kyle Smith [00:01:23]:
I meet with, sit with, observe salespeople, all day, every day. Salespeople and sales leaders, but I wanted to talk to you in particular because you're one of a few that I could count on one hand who have actually sold to me directly. I'm usually watching them sell to other people and critiquing that. But I've had the experience of being your prospect and now your customer. And so thank you for coming on. I wanted to talk to you about how you built your business and how you run the sales team.
Rachel Downey [00:01:49]:
Thanks for having me.
Kyle Smith [00:01:51]:
Yeah. So first question, a basic one that you probably get all the time. Why did you found Share Your Genius?
Rachel Downey [00:01:58]:
Well, I'll give you the long story made shorts, but I think I've shared with you in the past that my daughter, my first daughter, she was born at 26 weeks. And so I found myself sitting in a hospital and trying to figure out how I was going to make money like all good salespeople do. And I kind of stumbled into podcasting. I had a friend who asked me to help him launch his podcast. I jumped all in, quickly saw that it was a way to catapult his brand and his business. And I was like, more companies need to do this. And so I went all in on podcasting back in, really 2016 as a way to help brands kind of fuel their content marketing.
Kyle Smith [00:02:34]:
Did you start it as a side hustle or did you, in that same time period where you had your daughter, just say, I'm done with my old job, Like, I'm just going to build this while I start raising my daughter?
Rachel Downey [00:02:45]:
So I was actually in law school at the time when I had my daughter Lennon, and found myself kind of in this fork in the road moment where I was like, I'm in the hospital all the time. I don't know what to do with myself. I can't really attend class. I need to make money. I don't know what her life is going to look like. And so I was kind of looking for an opportunity to create income in a remote environment on my own time. And so that's where I kind of serendipitously fell into this opportunity to help my friend with his podcast. And he was like, I'll pay 25 bucks an hour, But I was like, this is a win because I could do it at 3am at the hospital. And he didn't really care. And so that's kind of how I stumbled into it, but I was like, this is a win because I could do it at 3am at the hospital. And he didn't really care. And so that's kind of how I stumbled into it.
Kyle Smith [00:03:23]:
How'd you get that first deal? So, like, this is fascinating to me, and I love it because we periodically do work with startups. It's like, you have no brand. No one's ever heard of you, no one even. And you're in a space that's kind of emerging at that point in time especially. And so you're selling to early adopters with no brand. So how did you get the first deal? Are you like, cold calling or what was the actual tactic you used to try to get the first deal?
Rachel Downey [00:03:47]:
Well, the first thing I had to figure out was, like, what is the pain that I'm solving? Like, what's the thing I'm actually solving with this kind of service, if you will. And it could have been a million different things, but I went to the use case of Jim and I was like, what is it that solving for him? And then I use that same kind of theory of victory, if you will, to introduce it to other people. And so it was less about use a podcast, create a podcast, and more about about what is it that this mechanism is solving for the people that I think could buy it. And so in this case, I leaned into using the show as a mechanism to build relationships with people that you want to learn from or do business with in some way, shape or form. The tactic that I deployed is I just went to my network is. I said, who are all the people that I know out in the world that are in business that are looking to build relationships with people that they could either learn from or do business with? And so I went into my Rolodex of all the relationships of all the people I'd ever met with and talked. Now, granted, I had spent a decade working at a content marketing agency, and so I already knew some people, right, in this world. And I had been to a million business networking events and things like that.
Rachel Downey [00:04:52]:
And I think there's sometimes a misconception when you talk about entrepreneurs and what that looks like. And it's like most of the time, I find that entrepreneurs who are successful have already built their business in a way, doing other stuff first on somebody else's dime. And so it was like I had already used my career to catapult the business that I now have. And so to answer your question, I met with anybody who would say yes to meeting with me that either knew me personally or knew about me or knew me enough to say, sure, I'll have a coffee with you.
Kyle Smith [00:05:22]:
Okay. And then somebody finally said, yeah, okay, I'll pay for this.
Rachel Downey [00:05:27]:
So the way that that worked, it was. It was my friend Nikki, and I kind of was like, hey, this is what I'm doing now. This is what I'm interested in. And she was like, that's interesting. I'd love for you to talk to my marketing team. And so that was kind of the way that it started, is I shared the vision with her. She caught it. She brought me into a room where I was able to kind of share the vision.
Rachel Downey [00:05:48]:
They said yes, they were willing to take a chance on this idea. And that was a company called Emplifi, and they've since been acquired. And I now work with all of the people who are part of that deal who now work at different companies. And so it's kind of one of those things where, like, relationships beget relationships. And so the more you can nurture those, the better off you'll be.
Kyle Smith [00:06:08]:
Yeah, that's our playbook to a to a tee mean, we work in tech, so when we. When a sales or marketing leader falls in love with us, you could say, unfortunately or fortunately, they don't stay at companies for 20 years like in other industries or maybe in times past. But that means that you might hire me eight times in your career because you're just going to keep moving around and bring us with you, which is fantastic. So you get your first deal. And then how long until you hire your first employee?
Rachel Downey [00:06:36]:
So this is where my math gets a little fuzzy. I was more worried about me reaching my income goals first as I was like, what does it need to be for me to have what I need met? And so that was kind of primary focus. And then we started to grow beyond my capabilities in terms of, like, being able to serve all the clients. And I grew the company to about seven full time people. In this was in 2019, there were seven full time people. But that was like an experiment. Like, I was like, is this something that could work? But in 2019, I kind of had like a dark night of the soul kind of moment. And I realized that everyone I had was not going to be part of the journey of what I wanted to build.
Rachel Downey [00:07:15]:
And so I actually let everybody go in the, it was like December 2019. I gave everybody kind of a severance opportunity for two months, and it was just me. So this was January 2020, which was also serendipitous that the world kind of changed drastically within three months. And it was just me in 2020 with a few specific contractors I was working with.
Kyle Smith [00:07:39]:
And so then you build back up. Where are you at now for headcount?
Rachel Downey [00:07:43]:
So there is nine of us full-time, and then we have a network, if you would, of contractors that we essentially employee of about 25 people.
Kyle Smith [00:07:52]:
Okay, so I get the origin story, but still, why podcast? So let me tee it up a little bit more. So I came into this whole world in 2013, 2014, and it was white papers, webinars. Like, that was the content strategy. Oh, and live in person events. And like, that was it. That was the trio of the marketing plan. And so when you think about content strategy now, and do you think about the podcast as the central hub of that strategy? And then why, why are podcasts so more effective from your perspective?
Rachel Downey [00:08:23]:
Yeah. And I grew up in the same era that you did in terms of, like, what I was helping clients create and all that kind of stuff. I have, like, nightmares of creating white papers. Like, those were. Yeah, not the thing to answer your question. To me, it all comes back down to, like, building relationships and human connection. And at the end of the day, people buy from people, they don't buy from brands. And so when you think about how do I create my content, how do I get my marketing in a spot that people feel like it's relatable, it's approachable, it gets me all that kind of stuff.
Rachel Downey [00:08:54]:
It has to come from the most human form, which is speaking and looking at each other and making an actual connection. The truth of it is, like, oftentimes you can't sell anything without having first a conversation. And so that conversation can be the cornerstone for how you create content is kind of my theory of victory there. I don't think that your podcast can fuel your entire marketing strategy, but I do believe it can fuel your entire content strategy. And I think that it can be a flywheel for impacting the other things, other motions that you have going. But I think the reason that it's so compelling, especially in where we're at in a modern era, is that it is originated from the human, not AI. And you can use other tools and things like that to maximize the impact. But that, to me, is why it's so important and special when you think about content marketing.
Kyle Smith [00:09:54]:
Why do you think it's so important that it originates from the human and not AI?
Rachel Downey [00:09:56]:
Because AI doesn't have a soul. And if people buy from people, not brands, brands don't have a soul either. And so it's like, if it originates from a human, there's already going to be a deeper opportunity to connect than if it just came from ChatGPT. It's very human to have multiple stories within one singular thing. And so even us talking about the origin story, there's like 75 stories within that one story that we could unpack, right? And I think that that's the stuff that just makes it so human and so relatable. And it's like, as somebody in sales or as somebody leading a marketing team or leading brand, it's like it's your job to pull the layers of all those stories and package them and share them in a way that's meaningful for the audience that they're designed for, but AI can't do that. They're not the keeper of all the stories.
Rachel Downey [00:10:49]:
They're the keeper of, like, facts and knowledge. And they can help, you know, tweak and do that kind of thing, but they can't curate that. And I think that's the thing that's so human, is like, we're the curators of that. And we've been doing this since cavemen times, right? Like, that's how we grew. That's how we changed the ecosystem of where we lived and how we did things is through story and connection. And I think that that's why I love video and podcasting so much, is because it's such a more natural avenue for humans to share our stories, because we're not asking each other to write a white paper. We're asking each other about how they started a company or what it was like to be at a hospital with your baby. Like, you get those things.
Rachel Downey [00:11:26]:
Like, that can't happen through AI.
Kyle Smith [00:11:29]:
Right. And so you mentioned the flywheel. And so what else can you build off of a podcast?
Rachel Downey [00:11:35]:
So, obviously you have. You could have a show that's very defined by a very specific premise and that kind of thing. But within your show, you can have multiple types of episodes. You can have a format that's designed for your consultants that highlights their thought leadership and their expertise. You could have a show that highlights other people's thought leadership and expertise. You can use audio and video to double down on just the things that you care about. Like, one of the ways that I articulate this maybe a little bit more clearly is that you have your brand pillars. Like, these are the things that my brand talks about, and then these are the things that Kyle talks about that might support what the brand talks about, but it's also a little bit different.
Rachel Downey [00:12:12]:
And so you can use the mechanism of your show to pull out that content for Kyle, but also for Susie and Tom and Jerry and The Bridge Group brand voice itself. So that's like kind of one sort of, like, example. The other thing that I found that is very helpful, and we've done this with a couple of clients, is that you have sales teams that get objections or they need things created. You can actually use your recording time to get those sound bites. Even if you don't use it for your show, you're maximizing your mic time to pull that content for your team to use in a different way. And so to me, it's like, if you design with the distribution in mind and the activators in mind, you can actually use one vehicle to help fuel all the other vehicles that you need to activate.
Kyle Smith [00:13:02]:
Speaking of the other vehicles, I just saw something that you posted on LinkedIn recently with an increased emphasis on clips, and basically clips for social media consumption for the video version of the podcast is going to be a huge point of emphasis for you and Share Your Genius. And so could you talk a little bit more about that? Like, why are clips going to be a point of emphasis for you?
Rachel Downey [00:13:22]:
Those clips are also inherently valuable for just engaging with people on the channel that you're distributing it on. So it almost doesn't matter if somebody clicks and listens to the full episode as much as it matters that they engaged with the content that you created because it was a value to them. And so that's Kind of what I'm saying is, like, it's the sum of all the parts. Doesn't necessarily mean everyone has to listen to the full episode, but it means that those parts were meaningful in the way that people engaged with it. And so that's kind of what I'm saying is, like, your show is a vehicle to do a million different things. The things that come out of it is one of those, honestly, metrics of success. And so your clips are going to matter just as much as the meat of the actual dish itself.
Kyle Smith [00:14:04]:
Are you exclusively B2B?
Rachel Downey [00:14:05]:
We are B2B. Yep. Yeah.
Kyle Smith [00:14:07]:
And so when you're talking about B2B, my assumption would be LinkedIn is a massive channel for anybody who's hosting a podcast that's run through you guys. And so LinkedIn, the clips are going to be awesome. Like, I get 100x views on clips than I do on the actual full RSS feed downloaded podcast.
Rachel Downey [00:14:28]:
Yeah, because one of the things that our clients are looking to do is they're like, oh, I'm using the show to grow our brand. Well, you're going to think about the. The podcast channel is just a channel that's kind of letting us know what's happening. But like, all the other things outside of it are what's helping you grow your brand. It's getting consistent with the content you're producing. It's creating quality content so that when somebody looks at what you're doing, they can associate quality with your brand. Those are some of the things that we like to keep in mind.
Kyle Smith [00:14:54]:
Yeah, that makes sense. So if you're selling to, let's say, content marketer or whatever, some marketing title.
Rachel Downey [00:15:00]:
Yeah.
Kyle Smith [00:15:00]:
And you say we want to feature someone as the thought leader and make them the prominent voice for the podcast and the content strategy. Now, if the company is going to invest in that, how do you deal with it if that person leaves?
Rachel Downey [00:15:15]:
We've dealt with this before where people leave and we have to figure out who's going to take over the show. There's a couple different ways to think about it. One is when we think about the kind of the why people are saying yes to launching a show. I really put it down to one of three buckets. This is a build brand effort, drive demand, or this is grow an audience. If it's a build brand effort, I'm going to ask the client, who are the key thought leaders that you're looking to invest in to help grow the brand to get people more aware of the show or the. Or the brand Itself, nine times out of ten, they know that there is risk in not putting the founder or CEO on the mic. If they're going to position the marketing person or somebody else, they know that there's a chance that they're going to leave.
Rachel Downey [00:15:55]:
But that doesn't mean that all of the content that was created wasn't evergreen, wasn't something that the company can then also use. And so oftentimes it looks like just finding a different talent to replace that host. Sometimes it looks like the brand continue to pay for the show with that person as long as they aren't going to a competitor. And sometimes it looks like that that host actually buying the show or taking it over as part of their severance. And so there's all different ways that you can kind of figure out how to maximize this. And we have had some clients that honestly haven't really worked out because they don't believe in putting their people on the mic because they're too scared of them leaving. And so there's that that you have to kind of think about. But on the same side of that coin, you could say, well, then don't use your show as a brand building effort; use it as building relationships. And so part of building relationships is getting your brand exposed to people that you want to do business with. And like, there's all sorts of ways that you can kind of skin that cat, if you will.
Kyle Smith [00:16:52]:
Yeah, that makes sense. So the acquiring the IP is an interesting thing for me. So do you have clients? Even though B2B? My guess would be primarily it's used to maybe a lead magnet, middle funnel, nurture, just like engage more effectively with the people you want to actually sell something to. Job people who use the podcast as something that gets monetized, like they actually drive money from the podcast.
Rachel Downey [00:17:18]:
I always say, like, market specifically, sell generally. So like, I don't market specifically to people who want to do that. But we have had people who have been able to use their show as an opportunity to monetize long term, or they've already monetized and they're coming to us to help kind of take their show to the next level or whatever. But monetization can come in a few different forms. Monetization can be, I'm looking for sponsors who align with our brand voice, our brand values, et cetera, and the sponsors are going to pay for it. That's honestly a really strategic move for a lot of brands to sponsor shows that already exist because there's already an audience there, they can maximize somebody else's time to, you know, create content for them, that kind of thing. I do think it's still better to own the audience rather than rent it, but there's a season and a time for everything, I guess. So, I don't even know if I answered your question because I started going down 45 different rabbit holes.
Kyle Smith [00:18:05]:
Well, my question is really, because I know idea what this would look like. How big does an audience have to be to make it worth paying for that audience?
Rachel Downey [00:18:14]:
That's a good question, but it's not the right question because it doesn't necessarily matter because if I have an audience of 100 people and those hundred people I know are typically are going to be like CEOs, and they're highly engaged, they're listening to every single thing. You see what I'm saying? Then it's like, okay, I'll cut you a check because I want to be in front of those people. And if one of those people convert, it's worth it for me. So to me, it comes back down to how you are structuring your packages that can be monetized based on the audience that you have. But the standard, industry standard. I'd have to double check my sources and make sure this is still correct. But it's been around 3,000 downloads per episode within, like, the first 30 days is typically what the standard entry point is, but for B2B, I don't play that way. You can do whatever you want as long as we package it in a way that actually creates a success story. And then there's monetization. Like, you're selling products. You know what I mean? You're launching services, you're monetizing it that way. So there's different ways to even monetize.
Kyle Smith [00:19:15]:
Yeah, makes sense. I struggle with it for B2B. Maybe my brain just doesn't work that way. I just don't see it like, consumer short, like this shirt. This is a Rhoback shirt. They sponsor a ton of podcasts. That makes sense to me. Somebody listening is like, oh, interesting Rhoback.
Kyle Smith [00:19:32]:
Let me go check it out. Spend 100 bucks, easy, like, logical path. But if you're like, hey, I sell XYZ software, or we're the best provider of this type of software, is the consumer of the podcast then going to go and purchase a 200k software solution? I have no idea, but.
Rachel Downey [00:19:51]:
They might. There's stats that say that you have 89% more recollection of brands and products if you listen to them on a podcast than any other medium. That's better than really?
Kyle Smith [00:20:00]:
Really?
Rachel Downey [00:20:01]:
Yes. Part of it is, in my view, is that a, you're investing your time. If you're listening to a podcast, you're not watching it, you're absorbing it differently. Like, you're not staring at a screen. It's kind of going to your brainwaves kind of directly. You trust the host, you trust the brand that's putting on the show because you're. You're spending your time with them. And podcast listeners are extremely loyal.
Rachel Downey [00:20:25]:
Extremely loyal. Like, you say yes to a podcast, you're not going to leave, you're not going to stop listening to that podcast unless they do something that you just, like, hate nine times out of ten, like, it is extremely loyal. And so if you were to do a podcast episode and plug and you have a trusted audience listening to your show and you were to plug a product, they're like, you know what? We crush it on this tool. We use it. People will pay attention to that more. And also in B2B, I think about what else are you packaging with that? So do I also get a shout out on your newsletter? Do I also get a shout out on your LinkedIn post so it can. You can wrap it in a few different ways?
Kyle Smith [00:20:57]:
Yeah, that makes sense. And as you were just saying that I was actually trying to recall, I bet you I could list 15 advertisers for podcasts I listened to consistently. And I could not tell you outside of State Farm, one advertiser, like, football's the only thing I watch live, but I couldn't tell you any of the commercials.
Rachel Downey [00:21:15]:
Yeah, I mean, I'm telling you because it comes back down to people. And if I trust Kyle and I listen to his show even irregularly, but I listen to it, you know, once a month or something like that. If you tell me something that you're excited about, we've already built the trust. I'm probably going to go check it out.
Kyle Smith [00:21:31]:
Hmm, interesting. What about consumption method or, like, the media that is consumed by different demos of people? And so, like, I listen to podcasts all day, every day. I love podcasts. That's where I consume the vast majority of my content. But how do you think about different demographics and where they actually want to view? And then therefore, what do you recommend for your clients for delivery method?
Rachel Downey [00:21:53]:
I'll say I'm not like an expert on all things, like channel, right. But what I am is a big believer in first principles when it comes to marketing. What that means to me is I'm like, where is your audience? Where are they engaging with content now? So if my audience is maybe I'm trying to connect with Gen Z buyers, then I probably need a TikTok strategy. And by the way, Gen Z is adapting podcasts faster than any other generation prior. And so if you're thinking about the future and Gen Z is part of it, you might be wanting to think about that. But I would ask you where your people are. If they're on Twitter, then how are we going to maximize your show and the distribution of it to.
Rachel Downey [00:22:33]:
To get you some more content for Twitter? So that's kind of how I think about it is like you have to come to the party at least knowing generally where your audience is based on historical data in terms of how they engage with you in the past, and then kind of knowing what they're gravitating to the most. Because we're primarily B2B, we focus on LinkedIn a lot and then we focus on YouTube secondarily. A few of our clients are. Have a lot of, like, engineer developers as part of their audience. And so Twitter is a big deal. But I have found by working with companies like that is they know a lot about their audience already. And so we're working with them to just help maximize their content for the channels we're distributing for.
Kyle Smith [00:23:10]:
Twitter's not one. I've thought of TikTok, Instagram, LinkedIn, YouTube, definitely. But Twitter is not one that I've thought of. Interesting.
Rachel Downey [00:23:20]:
I wouldn't sleep on it. I wouldn't sleep on it. Especially with.
Kyle Smith [00:23:22]:
For clips or text to accompany it.
Rachel Downey [00:23:25]:
I think of like Twitter threads and things like that. You know, one of our clients, because we think distribution first we work with our clients to say this is the show that we're building. And then what content makes sense for us to put on X, right. It's like those Twitter threads or looking for trending topics to help inform what type of content we should be creating. You know, YouTube now supports longer than 60 seconds. I think you do up to three minutes now on YouTube Shorts. So what are the how to episodes that we should create in short form? Because we've seen a lot of our clients grow their audience by leveraging YouTube Shorts.
Rachel Downey [00:24:00]:
And so it's just like kind of what you do in business strategy is you come up with your theory of victory and it works until it doesn't. You know what I mean?
Kyle Smith [00:24:08]:
Yeah. And then you let the data eventually, over time, tell you whether or not you were right.
Rachel Downey [00:24:12]:
Yeah.
Kyle Smith [00:24:13]:
Okay. This is a leading question because I know the answer for myself. Personally, do you ever get asked to do more? You have the podcast, and it's never just a podcast, but you have the flywheel that surrounds the podcast. But do you get asked by your clients to do even more? Do you want to be a full service marketing firm?
Rachel Downey [00:24:35]:
I don't want to be a full service marketing firm. I want our clients to think of us as their content partners. And so when I think about content partner, I think strategy, especially with AI, it's less about what can the widget do and it's more about why are we doing it and how can we think differently. I think a lot about patterns and like, how do we spot patterns for our clients? How do we disrupt patterns? How do we hone in on the patterns that make the most sense? Those are some of the things that I like to think a lot about. I want them to think of us as like their outsourced multimedia production crew. We are your content partner in helping you maximize what we create for you.
Kyle Smith [00:25:14]:
Okay, and when are you going to hire your next salesperson?
Rachel Downey [00:25:20]:
I think I already hired her.
Kyle Smith [00:25:22]:
Yeah.
Rachel Downey [00:25:23]:
And really my theory of victory is, is equipping our strategic leads to sell for us. That's my theory of victory.
Kyle Smith [00:25:30]:
Okay. So basically Amanda. So Amanda is my strategic lead. Amanda manages our whole podcast strategy. Amanda would then also take calls with prospective net new customers and tried to close them on using Share Your Genius services.
Rachel Downey [00:25:44]:
Yeah.
Kyle Smith [00:25:45]:
Who gets Amanda the call?
Rachel Downey [00:25:47]:
So I want to do that through partner-led growth.
Kyle Smith [00:25:50]:
What does that look like?
Rachel Downey [00:25:52]:
So to me, that looks like identifying people that don't compete with you but complete you or compliment you. And the opportunity there is to say here's a slice of the pie that there's two ways I'm thinking about doing this if I'll just play my cards. One is we create a show together. That's their brand show. We do it with a little bit of a maybe discount for them because we can tap into their world a little bit more intentionally. But they have a show. We can look at their show and say we want our brand on it as from our own marketing and awareness. And then also I would love to help invite other people that fit our ICP to your show.
Rachel Downey [00:26:31]:
And so it allows us to build a relationship with people that don't know about us, but also be authentic and giving them an opportunity to go on other show. But they get to know who we are and it allows us to build some relationship equity there.
Kyle Smith [00:26:42]:
That's product-led growth, by the way.
Rachel Downey [00:26:44]:
It's product-led growth.
Kyle Smith [00:26:45]:
That's product-led growth. You're describing product-led growth.
Rachel Downey [00:26:48]:
Okay, so we're doing product-led growth, not partner-led growth.
Kyle Smith [00:26:50]:
It doesn't make sense because we're selling services, but you're giving people. The best example of product-led growth that I've ever seen is Calendly because I send you a Calendly link. You don't use Calendly. You get the experience of using Calendly because me, a customer, sent it to you and then times that by some exponential growth because then you do it for 50 other people. And so that's really what you're describing, which is you're going to invite people to be part of a podcast experience who don't have one for themselves. They get to see what it's like to engage with the producer, to engage with the scheduler, to actually be part of it. They get to see the final work product. So they are getting a representative sampling of what it would be like to work with you by you pulling them in to be a guest on somebody who does already pay for your services podcast.
Rachel Downey [00:27:34]:
Yes. So that. So product-led growth, the partner piece of it for us is kind of co selling together. And so we have one client who they're not a competitor of ours, they're a compliment of ours. We look at each other's lists of people that we're going after and we go after them together. And so whether that's us doing some cold outreach or it's them doing it, but then they invite us into the conversation and then we get a. We do a referral deal together. So if it closes, they get a cut for the first year of that business.
Rachel Downey [00:28:03]:
And so building more of those relationship,s I think is critical. But I do believe that it's extremely important because I've learned the hard way, I think it's really important that to lead strategy you have to work on shows and so you have to stay close to the product that's being developed and delivered in order to make sure that it's continually getting better and providing the value that I know it can.
Kyle Smith [00:28:25]:
I'm just going to keep using Amanda as the example.
Rachel Downey [00:28:27]:
Yeah.
Kyle Smith [00:28:27]:
Why Amanda versus whatever, Jon Jones, some other person you hire tomorrow?
Rachel Downey [00:28:35]:
Well, one, and this is maybe, misses a symptom of a founder of kind of led organization. She spent the most time with me and so she knows the most about why we think about what we think about and why we think about it. She's also extremely hungry. She's the closest thing to founder-led in my opinion, because she loves the brand just as Much as I do. She loves the company, she loves the mission. And so to me, great salespeople aren't salespeople at all. They are people who advocate fiercely for the thing that we do, and they love it, and you can't manufacture that.
Kyle Smith [00:29:13]:
Yeah. How do you toe the line, though? Because we've dealt with this, which is why I'm asking. So Amanda sells this new deal, but they fell in love with Amanda's vision for what this podcast could be for their company. And now how do you control Amanda's book while still freeing up bandwidth so that she can effectively sell Share Your Genius services and compete with the fact that all these prospects are gonna be like, no, no, no, no. Yes, I wanna work with Share Your Genius, but I wanna work with you. Like, what you have described is like, exactly what I want.
Rachel Downey [00:29:50]:
So this is a challenge that we've had for sure. We have had this challenge. You can, you can laugh about it. The theory of victory there is really twofold. One is that some of what she hunts, she can kill and eat. That's fine. The other piece of it is we are our part of our training and development is what we call bringing in a showrunner. That showrunner is somebody who drives communication, drives delivery, drives process, so that Amanda has more capacity to focus on the vision, the relationship, making sure that the Genius way is being instilled in her client experience.
Rachel Downey [00:30:22]:
So that's like one other theory of victory is we have somebody kind of sweeping up the dust behind her. Because I've also found that really good relationship building salespeople, I want to keep them out of the weeds more so they can focus on the momentum of moving things forward. The other piece of it is that in the sales process, my theory of victory is that when Amanda is selling, we have a step in the process called meet your producer. And it's that it's at that point when we would bring in who their actual account lead is going to be. I have found that creating content is actually a very personal endeavor. So it's important that the client actually likes who they're going to work with, because they have to know that our team is trained in the way. If I sell the deal and you know you're getting Amanda, you should trust that Amanda knows the same things that I know. But that's kind of the theory of victory is bringing that in earlier in your experience, transparently, I was trying something and it didn't work.
Rachel Downey [00:31:17]:
Where it was like her and I and selling, and then you didn't end up working with her anyway, that doesn't work. What does work, I think is if she were to sell it, you bring that Strat Lead in earlier so that we make sure that you guys vibe before we move forward with the deal.
Kyle Smith [00:31:32]:
Yeah. The one thing that gives me concern that we've run into, especially when you have a small team, when you introduce the person, you're like, this is going to be your person. And then they don't close. And it's not that they don't close, it's that they don't close quickly. And so now all of a sudden you're two weeks down the road and you're like that person I just introduced you to. I know you met Lori. Lori doesn't have like this never ending open slot on her client roster for you to work with for when you decide to sign. So that would be my one lesson learned from our side is like, there needs to be some parameters around that because you don't just get to pop your head back up in five weeks and say, great, we're ready to get kicked off, I want to work with Lori. And be like, Lori doesn't have bandwidth anymore, so we either have to start over or like it. It's. It maybe creates urgency, but just setting clear expectations on that would be something that we've definitely dealt with in the past.
Rachel Downey [00:32:24]:
I am like a everything's possible person. And so I have struggled with that biting me in the butt afterwards because I'm like, yeah, it'll all work out. And it's like. But in reality, it doesn't actually. And so setting expectations is something I've been working on.
Kyle Smith [00:32:39]:
Good, good, good. Well, I'm a huge advocate. I love Share Your Genius. I know I haven't been the easiest client, but I'm trying to be better.
Rachel Downey [00:32:50]:
I think you're great. Everything I hear is great, great, good.
Kyle Smith [00:32:54]:
And so thank you for all the work that you guys do and thank you for coming on.
Rachel Downey [00:32:57]:
Thanks for having me.
Kyle Smith [00:33:00]:
Thanks for listening to this episode of Market Mastery brought to you by The Bridge Group. If you're a revenue leader in the B2B sales space or know someone who is, connect with me on LinkedIn. Don't forget to subscribe to stay updated on future episodes.