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Mark explores the minds of visionary entrepreneurs who refuse to limit themselves to a single venture to learn how these trailblazers manage risks, innovate across industries, and turn ideas into impact.
Whether you’re scaling your first business or juggling several, this podcast is your ultimate guide to thriving as a parallel entrepreneur.
Chapter 1: If you’re the smartest in the room…
0:00if you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room. Uh so you're wasting your time basically. So
0:077 secondsthat's been always my motto, like always be in a room where you have so much more to like learn. And then um teaching,
0:1717 secondswhich I'm I'm making a parallel between teaching and mentoring, is teaching is the best way to learn. Welcome to the parallel entrepreneur, where we dive
0:2525 secondsinto the minds of entrepreneurs who push beyond the limits of a single business.
0:3030 secondsLearn how these visionaries invite creative synergies to flow between multiple and oftentimes diverse enterprises simultaneously. Whether
0:3838 secondsyou're just starting out or managing multiple ventures, you already think outside the box and this podcast will inspire you to recognize and tap into the power of parallel entrepreneurship.
0:5151 secondsToday's guest is Eve Peterson. She's an Estonian strategy and transformation leader with more than 20 years of
0:5959 secondsexperience across the hospitality, the creative sector, and government innovation. Eve worked her way from hotel receptionist to hotel director.
1:081 minute, 8 secondsShe led Estonia's top event marketing agency to award-winning growth and later served as the head of Startup Estonia,
1:171 minute, 17 secondshelping design and advance that country's national startup strategy.
1:221 minute, 22 secondsShe's most recently led innovation and startup services at Enterprise Estonia,
1:291 minute, 29 secondsstrengthening the country's global R&D and deep tech footprint. In true parallel form, she's also the founder of
1:371 minute, 37 secondsLeaders Online, a sciencebacked leadership mentorship platform. Eve is here in Nashville as a Fulbright Humphrey Fellow researching innovation
1:461 minute, 46 secondsecosystems. Let's dive right in. And I thought I just have to have you on the show because this is such an interesting
1:531 minute, 53 secondsperspective like nobody's going to get it except me. And uh and why I'm going to get it why why I get it is I'm your
2:002 minutesHumphrey fellow buddy and Vanderbilt patent. are paired me up with you uh to welcome you to our country and welcome to the show.
2:082 minutes, 8 secondsHappy to have you as my buddy.
Chapter 2: Why she came to the U.S. (and what she got wrong)
2:102 minutes, 10 secondsAll right. Um, we always talk about the United States, the startups that are successful and all of these different
2:192 minutes, 19 secondsoptions and and VC funding and all those programs and accelerators that are happening and every you know all these
2:262 minutes, 26 secondspublic um academia uh private sector combination networking everything is like like Silicon Valley
2:352 minutes, 35 secondsis the perfect example. It's like a melting pot of all the opportunities that that are there and all the talent like how can we always brought that as
2:422 minutes, 42 secondsthe the example of like the success story like how can we and should we even replicate that
2:502 minutes, 50 secondsand we always kind of brought out these different programs and design different initiatives in Estonia
2:572 minutes, 57 secondsand I I started to feel a bit suffocated by our own you know bubble uh like we we talk about things that we are never
3:053 minutes, 5 secondsexperienc experience. So my goal then was to um come to this program uh make new friends uh talk to people uh learn
3:143 minutes, 14 secondsabout the programs learn about how these networks are built learn about how these programs are actually designed who's doing that who's responsible for what
3:223 minutes, 22 secondsand then think you know okay like looking back at home now what can I learn from it what should I learn from
3:303 minutes, 30 secondsit maybe I have something actually to bring to the table here and just really broaden my world that like I just felt a
3:373 minutes, 37 secondsbit like trapped and suffocated uh I would say in my own little uh small world. So that was the kind of reason why I even applied for this internship.
3:493 minutes, 49 secondsNow the critical thing is I never meant to come to Nashville because when you think about like famous startup
3:573 minutes, 57 secondsecosystems or or cities where things are happening. Sure.
4:004 minutesUm you know Silicon Valley maybe is not like the role model anymore. Uh but we talk about Boston. Yeah. Like that's the
4:084 minutes, 8 secondsheart of you know the the science and and the entrepreneurship meet and my whole uh acceptance uh like letter uh
4:174 minutes, 17 secondspages and pages of it was written based on how I will be and what I will do in Boston and how it's the place I should
4:244 minutes, 24 secondsbe. Um and then when the answer came I was like no well um it's actually Nashville. I was so surprised like
4:334 minutes, 33 secondsnobody talks about Nashville as the entrepreneurial center or the startup hub and we are one of the greatest places in
4:414 minutes, 41 secondsthe country to start and grow a business.
4:434 minutes, 43 secondsExactly. But I didn't know that and this has been like the most exciting journey and I I think it was meant to be like
4:504 minutes, 50 secondsthis. I think I was exactly meant to be here. Um the learning and kind of the vibe that I've been getting here I think
4:584 minutes, 58 secondsis completely exactly what I actually needed.
5:025 minutes, 2 secondsWell, the universe wanted you to come to Nashville and here you are and uh we became friends because I was I
Chapter 3: Mentorship: Europe vs U.S.
5:105 minutes, 10 secondshad the opportunity to become your Nashville buddy and uh somebody thought I would introduce you around and we would have a lot of fun and we have and
5:195 minutes, 19 secondsI'm what I've learned from you. I'm fascinated about your approach to mentorship. How is mentoring experienced
5:275 minutes, 27 secondsdifferently in your cultural background in Estonia in Europe, right? And and here in Nashville, what or what what is
5:365 minutes, 36 secondsit that you think is like this thread that you're going to pull out and what what are you discovering?
5:425 minutes, 42 secondsYeah, I've really dug into mentorship deep during this uh six past months. uh but thinking about
5:505 minutes, 50 secondsthe episodes that I as a mentor myself have been through well there's no there
5:575 minutes, 57 secondsis much less I would say like mentorship is something I would say is more in acceleration programs or or like it's
6:056 minutes, 5 secondsit's somehow designed into different like startup programs it is I would say
6:116 minutes, 11 secondsless popular or less used for leadership improvement in general Well,
6:186 minutes, 18 secondsokay. So, are you saying that you're discovering something here that is more available to leadership?
6:246 minutes, 24 secondsIt is like I think Estonia and Europe in general tends to be a little bit more on the technical side like how do we make
6:336 minutes, 33 secondsthis solution work perfectly? How exactly like do we fix this that third?
6:396 minutes, 39 secondsLike how do we make sure that all of your like uh R&D journey goes well? Like what help do you need there? What experts do you need? process map.
6:476 minutes, 47 secondsSo, it's more like let's say um I I just saw this I don't remember who posted it on LinkedIn like there was a graph which
6:546 minutes, 54 secondswas product readiness um in in Europe versus US. So in Europe it's like crap
Chapter 4: The mistake founders make: waiting too long to sell
7:037 minutes, 3 secondscrap crap crap always crap up to the point where it's almost perfect and it's like okay we can sell now
7:117 minutes, 11 secondsversus the US it's like oh you're you have a great idea that's an MVP we have an MVP let's start selling let's start like pushing it so
7:207 minutes, 20 secondson the same like actual readiness uh chart the US um startups and the mentors
7:287 minutes, 28 secondsactually encourage to sell and to actually interact interact with a customer much earlier. So I and that
7:347 minutes, 34 secondsthat's it's not like a good or bad thing but I think we're just kind of holding ourselves back a little bit like making
7:417 minutes, 41 secondssure the technicalities are perfect before we are you know comfortable enough to show this to a customer. So,
7:507 minutes, 50 secondsand this is a really um what I want to learn and I have personally learned from here is we really need to focus more on
7:597 minutes, 59 secondsthe customer uh uh problem, the customer goals and the customer value. So, start
8:068 minutes, 6 secondsfrom there. Uh don't build a perfect product. Um recently I think there have been more focus also back home uh on the
8:158 minutes, 15 secondsfact that you actually need to find the person who would buy before you perfect your solution. But in general I I'm just
8:228 minutes, 22 secondslike maybe oversimplifying here but the focus on the customer the customer journey the customer need and everything to do with like we start from there.
8:338 minutes, 33 secondsThis is how this reality works. While in Europe we have this great solution we have this great science. we have this great product and then we start to find like okay who might have this problem.
8:438 minutes, 43 secondsSo uh I know that there are both cases in in both uh US and Europe but this is just like something that maybe strikes out a little bit.
Chapter 5: Reinventing yourself (again and again)
8:518 minutes, 51 secondsSo you were leading enterprise Estonia and looking for inspiration. You apply for
9:009 minutesthe Humphrey Fellowship. you wind up in Nashville and now you're actively engaged in this idea of reinventing
9:099 minutes, 9 secondsyourself. And I think that's a really important concept too, right? We we we meet the challenge. We meet the customer's requirements. We do all these
9:179 minutes, 17 secondsthings. We just meet life. And where we meet life is every day is an opportunity to reinvent yourself. And and we've had some conversations about this. What's
9:259 minutes, 25 secondsthe reinvention uh experience like for you um here in the United States while it's happening real time and where you what do you what where is it taking you?
9:359 minutes, 35 secondsI think I've reinvented myself many times. I don't know if it's a restlessness of some sort or or the
9:449 minutes, 44 secondsconstant like uh I'm not enough symptom or not a symptom but u the like a disorder
9:519 minutes, 51 secondsof never never being enough. So I constantly think I need to learn more and h and uh become somebody else during
10:0110 minutes, 1 secondthis one lifetime. Um so I've been in hotel business like 10 years complete change from there to uh creative
10:0910 minutes, 9 secondsindustry. So uh managing um a marketing agency for five years and then from there to start one of the leading marketing agencies.
10:1810 minutes, 18 secondsIt was it was pretty big deal. Yeah. and and like the creativity all started from there. So I never thought I was a
10:2510 minutes, 25 secondscreative person before going to work in the marketing agency. And then when you let yourself be surrounded uh by these
10:3410 minutes, 34 secondscreative uh artistic people who just are like designers and performers and
10:4010 minutes, 40 secondswhatever, you start like quietly going to these, you know, um meetings and you see, oh, I I had an idea. Oh my god. And
10:4910 minutes, 49 secondsthis this idea actually got implemented and I was like copyrighting at some point. I didn't even know what copyrightiting is two years ago. So you
10:5710 minutes, 57 secondsyou just like allow yourself to become a new person. You didn't even even know that you had it in you. I was like I'm I'm not an artistic person. I'm not like a creative person. Everybody really is.
11:0811 minutes, 8 secondsU so so the reinventing oneself has really been in me all this time. and then going to the public sector which
11:1511 minutes, 15 secondswas a completely different struggle in a very positive way because there is no greater mission than to really work for
11:2311 minutes, 23 secondsnot just yourself and your company's owners but for the society I mean the pressure is so different
11:3011 minutes, 30 secondsand to experience that I think everybody should do that like work on the private and the public sector side because working in this uh Estonia's biggest
11:3911 minutes, 39 secondsinnovation agency we were always like in somebody's his hair like like a a person who has never worked on that side is
11:4711 minutes, 47 secondslike oh the government they don't know what they're doing they're wasting money they should just like fire everybody like these people are just sitting
11:5611 minutes, 56 secondsaround there but exactly I don't I have a lot of friends in government and various state local uh
12:0412 minutes, 4 secondsfederal I don't know anybody that goes to work every day thinking I'm going to waste
12:1112 minutes, 11 secondstime. I'm gonna just like clock in and and regulate something that doesn't
12:1912 minutes, 19 secondsmatter. I I don't know anybody that wants to live that life. And I don't believe that people in our government actually go through their career with
12:2712 minutes, 27 secondsthat attitude. It doesn't make sense to me. It's just a it's a sound bite I think that people grab onto.
12:3312 minutes, 33 secondsYeah. But I think Mark, don't you think sometimes we live in some sort of bubbles? Sometimes I think we live in kind of our cute bubbles where people
12:4112 minutes, 41 secondshave all are all missiondriven and are like this all in and you know let's be you know leave something after ourselves
12:5112 minutes, 51 secondslegacy or you know we driven. So I I'm sure there are different people everywhere like in private sector I mean
12:5812 minutes, 58 secondsI am sure not everybody is like oh I'm so focused this there this oh I'm going to we're just going to make it. Well, we
13:0613 minutes, 6 secondsdo see people that like to hide in organizations.
13:0813 minutes, 8 secondsYeah, there are always going to be public, private, doesn't really matter.
13:1213 minutes, 12 secondsWell, so the challenge then it really doesn't matter which organization you're in, but the environment gives you a new perspective, right?
13:1913 minutes, 19 secondsSo you now you're in the United States,
13:2213 minutes, 22 secondsyou're moving around, you're going to Austin, you're going to South by Southwest coming up, right?
13:2713 minutes, 27 secondsWhat's the journey like for you as you explore entrepreneurship, mentorship,
13:3113 minutes, 31 secondsand innovation in the United States? I had been designing public services but I had never any clue how to actually do
13:3913 minutes, 39 secondsthat. What's the process be behind innovation? What's the process behind design thinking? What is it?
13:4713 minutes, 47 secondsAnd so that was actually the trigger that I started to um dig deeper here. So that's my new like transformational
13:5513 minutes, 55 secondsperiod like how to be a better design thinker uh innovation practitioner. uh it's been a really a great journey but
14:0214 minutes, 2 secondsit also this transformational period has allowed me time to think and that's another kind of a
14:1014 minutes, 10 secondsdogma I always had about myself I don't have a business idea I I just don't have it I'm just like a person who's like
14:1614 minutes, 16 secondsenabling others uh because I'm just a I'm just a leader I'm just a manager like that's not a trade and now I have
Chapter 6: “Maybe I am an entrepreneur”
14:2414 minutes, 24 secondsbeen here for more than six months and I've discovered okay but that is that actually is something that can be made
14:3114 minutes, 31 secondsinto uh an entrepreneurial like uh venture. So, so that I'm pursuing now is
14:3914 minutes, 39 secondswhat if I really did something on my own or what if I applied a completely new set of of skills. So, coming back to
14:4614 minutes, 46 secondsthis question, um I am here experiencing as much as I possibly can. I think
14:5314 minutes, 53 secondsduring the the 10 months that I will be spending here, I will have visited maybe 12 states. I don't know how many cities and really I want to meet people,
15:0515 minutes, 5 secondsexperience nature as well as like conferences. There have been great speakers even in Nashville like the the
15:1315 minutes, 13 secondspeople that they bring just to the University of Vanderbilt to just speak um because they're alumni or or in any
15:2015 minutes, 20 secondsway uh attached that there is just so much expertise in one room. It's like just uh
15:2615 minutes, 26 secondsit drips. it just it drips. And then South by Southwest, I've heard about it so much that it's the greatest thing on
15:3415 minutes, 34 secondsthis side of the the United States. Um so the innovation, music, and um
15:4215 minutes, 42 secondsmovie and a festival like all in one in one week.
15:4515 minutes, 45 secondsNothing against Austin, but you're starting in Nashville, so you know,
15:4815 minutes, 48 secondsyou're going to go down there with sort of high expectations. Let's see if they can pull it off.
15:5215 minutes, 52 secondsLet's see. Let's see. And there's always a fight between like who makes a better barbecue, right?
15:5715 minutes, 57 secondsSo I can be like the the neutral uh them's fighting words scientist.
16:0316 minutes, 3 secondsWell, so so you're you're you're going to do that and you're going to head up to the Great Lakes area. I think you mentioned uh in an earlier conversation.
16:1116 minutes, 11 secondsYeah. Uh Chicago was a surprise to me.
16:1416 minutes, 14 secondsUm it was a little bit like between New York and some other city which I can't
16:2116 minutes, 21 secondsname. maybe New York and Nashville is it was fantastic and I was um spending a few days there and I was sure I want to
16:2816 minutes, 28 secondsgo back. Uh I do I am going to go back but not for that long. Um so just for um
16:3616 minutes, 36 secondsuh like it's a leadership um training let's say but uh the the month
16:4216 minutes, 42 secondsin Austin um is where I really want to immerse myself into like where do the startups like have their offices? what
16:5116 minutes, 51 secondsdo they do the capital factory where it's like the hub um so much like we have these hubs like uh back back home
16:5916 minutes, 59 secondsso I want to just like see is it different is it the same because I think the vibe so far has been so similar that
17:0817 minutes, 8 secondsit's like do people eat different things or do we talk about different things or what is the what is there different or is it just that that the sheer amount of
17:1617 minutes, 16 secondsjust venture capitalism more like what is it um and can we then replicate it or or or change something.
17:2417 minutes, 24 secondsWell, it sounds to me like you also want to have what is unique in Estonia be a part of the root of whatever you
17:3217 minutes, 32 secondsknow emerges there. Uh,
17:3717 minutes, 37 secondsentrepreneurship is not easy and I think that we should celebrate our entrepreneurs wherever we find them and
17:4517 minutes, 45 secondsand build them and grow them and uh team building seems to be one of the
17:5317 minutes, 53 secondscore issues that any company has. Team building culture. How do how do you what are the differences that you observed so
18:0118 minutes, 1 secondfar when you got into an American startup versus the European startup?
18:0618 minutes, 6 secondsYeah, team building definitely we we talk about the same things especially when it's a very deep science-based uh team or an idea that's just fresh out of
18:1518 minutes, 15 secondsa lab. Um, and there's probably I don't know sometimes it's so unique that there is nobody that understands you and maybe
18:2318 minutes, 23 secondsyou know how do you find a co-founder for something that only only you understand or maybe a couple of other people. So that's where having more
18:3218 minutes, 32 secondspeople actually is useful happening here. uh and and maybe the fact that there are more programs than
18:4018 minutes, 40 secondsthat to take you through that kind of first few steps uh before you you know get to the valley of death and whatnot.
18:4718 minutes, 47 secondsBut um in Estonia I think what what is really great is like we are fewer but we have really great like uh startup visa
Chapter 7: Why Estonia punches above its weight
18:5618 minutes, 56 secondssystem and we I think a a third of all of our startup employees are actually f foreign founders uh foreign uh people.
19:0519 minutes, 5 secondsSo we we made it like um a very deliberate we yes deliberately imported deliberately made it a point startup friendly
19:1319 minutes, 13 secondsand it's not just that that we are few we know actually for a fact that diversity uh makes really a big
19:2019 minutes, 20 secondsdifference in startups. So Estonia has been like number one in the number of startups, number one in Europe, number
19:2719 minutes, 27 secondsof like uh unicorns per capita of course I mean we're not like but so so we are really deliberate about like making sure
19:3519 minutes, 35 secondsthat everything that we can do bring the people in bring the talent in do the programs I mean really mix it up like take it to the regions um so so that is
19:4519 minutes, 45 secondssomething that we we have done and also because it's still not enough um I've tried to kind of take the Nordics Baltics together, let's say eight
19:5419 minutes, 54 secondscountries, and create like a Nordic tech valley. I just call it like cute. Yeah.
19:5819 minutes, 58 secondsNordic tech valley vision where we kind of make it easier to see other programs and other teams in different countries.
20:0620 minutes, 6 secondsAnd we're so similar in terms of culture and how we do business and the work ethic which is really really high. I mean people are smart and they work
20:1320 minutes, 13 secondshard. So how do how do we make sure we find each other easier? Uh also the mentoring platform that I'm I'm kind of
20:2120 minutes, 21 secondsbuilding now is meant to make it easier to onboard different experts from across borders because like what happens here
20:3020 minutes, 30 secondsbetween states is us doing things between countries. So we just need to make ourselves deliberately bigger and have more uh and in depth of expertise,
20:4320 minutes, 43 secondscapital and everything knowledge.
20:4620 minutes, 46 secondsI've been in Europe a number of times and always marveled that I could be at a nightclub or a lunchon, you know, some a
20:5420 minutes, 54 secondscafe and there's six different languages being spoken audibly within, you know, I can hear there's French over here and
21:0121 minutes, 1 secondthere's German over there and then I'll come to a Starbucks and the only thing I'll hear is tall skinny, right? Um, all
21:0821 minutes, 8 secondsEnglish. And I'm I I I wonder it's always made me curious does that rich multilingual
21:1721 minutes, 17 secondsfoundation of the of of that universe is that a competitive advantage? Is that a
21:2421 minutes, 24 secondscreative level up? What do you think on a personal level, individual level? I think it's a it's a very big like plus.
21:3321 minutes, 33 secondsUm I'm a philologist and I'm a fan of linguistics. like by my first uh masters. So I I really believe my first masters is in linguistics.
21:4421 minutes, 44 secondsLet's just throw around numbers here. Um no but uh but really I I am I I really think that how we speak and our language
21:5221 minutes, 52 secondsso much um defines how we I don't know behave think and I don't know it's it's
21:5921 minutes, 59 secondsmaybe weird but like a same person talking in one language versus another it that they become a different person.
22:0722 minutes, 7 secondswords have meaning, right? And different languages approach the connotations and everything like some languages don't even have that like
22:1422 minutes, 14 secondsum word or some are really simple in grammar and really hard in like intonation and some are completely vice
22:2222 minutes, 22 secondsversa. So I mean okay but that's another story but on a let's say entrepreneurial level it's of course harder because now
22:2922 minutes, 29 secondswhen you think about the European Union for example like if you want to sell to more than one country which is
22:3922 minutes, 39 secondsalways the case as we're talking about like a a startup like a tech startup you you need to incorporate into different
22:4722 minutes, 47 secondslanguages cultures etc etc etc so it's a good thing now European Union is working on EU Inc. which would be kind of the
22:5422 minutes, 54 seconds28th regime which is kind of a let's say a fictional country uh a regime that
23:0223 minutes, 2 secondswould m enable you to incorporate a a company in 27 member states simultaneously. So that is like a very
23:0923 minutes, 9 secondsbig step forward now which which Europe is working with and and for the startups that are we're basically born global. We we have to have the global mindset
23:1723 minutes, 17 secondsotherwise it doesn't make any sense like Estonia is a location. It's not a market. So, so we're very global and
23:2423 minutes, 24 secondsthat helps but uh individually I think it it it wires you to it just builds your brain muscle I think as well like
23:3323 minutes, 33 secondsyou you just think so much of the challenge of running an organization is related to communication whether it's a product document a
23:4023 minutes, 40 secondsproduct definitions document or a memo to try to set policy and you you you're working those muscles a lot
23:4823 minutes, 48 secondsand it's just a beautiful thing um I I I I just am aware that I speak English and I pretend to
23:5423 minutes, 54 secondsspeak French and um I better not go anywhere where I need to have another language. Um this is a this is a a fun
24:0324 minutes, 3 secondsquestion. You you've tell me what it is that surprised you the most about entrepreneurs that you've
24:1124 minutes, 11 secondsmet in in your experience so far in the United States.
24:1724 minutes, 17 secondsI think I've met less entrepreneurs than you think.
24:2124 minutes, 21 secondsUm my days are spent a lot of them are spending in the academic setting and meeting like these support organizations
24:2824 minutes, 28 secondsbecause mainly my goal was to meet the enablers the community organizations that enable all of those fancy things that the that entrepreneurs can enjoy.
24:3824 minutes, 38 secondsBut um you are one of them uh the exceptional entrepreneurs that I've met and you can
24:4624 minutes, 46 secondsjust do so much. I think in that sense you work hard. Uh you also play hard but
24:5424 minutes, 54 secondslike the I think there's never a time off. I don't think it's very much different from any other entrepreneur in
25:0025 minutesin any other country but even the fact that the the entrepreneurs I met here
25:0725 minutes, 7 secondsstill make the time to do those LinkedIn posts and share the information
25:1425 minutes, 14 secondsand and they are the busiest people ever. I think that that how your work is presented and how you talk about things
25:2225 minutes, 22 secondsand how you you have that presence let's say LinkedIn is much more used much more
25:2825 minutes, 28 secondsutilized much more carefully designed and and um and and and also the other thing is nobody's afraid to sell like
25:3825 minutes, 38 secondsnobody's afraid to talk to customers. I think that's something that maybe we're more I don't know um Nordic or something
25:4825 minutes, 48 secondslike more closed. So we need to learn that. I think there like a sales or talking to people even the chitchat are
25:5725 minutes, 57 secondsjust like so how are you how do I even find out like what what what you're worried about? How do I find out like what you are happy about as a customer?
26:0626 minutes, 6 secondsit takes like a struggle more of the times in Estonia than here. So I think um and also maybe you have more
26:1426 minutes, 14 secondscompetition. So that's like there's never anything just good or bad. Uh it's just a it's a different setting and you have your different fights, let's say.
26:2526 minutes, 25 secondsSo if you if let's say if you make it in Estonia you might have this illusion that you made it because there's less
26:3226 minutes, 32 secondspeople less competition less like of everything to and then even me like I thought I was
Chapter 8: Starting over when nobody knows you
26:4026 minutes, 40 secondssomebody like I was on TV I was on radio I come here like nobody knows me I'm nobody and it's it's good in one way but
26:4926 minutes, 49 secondsit's also like if I needed to start like my life here now to prove something or to start something, initiate something
26:5726 minutes, 57 secondslike the the company I'm I'm working with right now, like I have this business idea for the first time in my life. I'm scared like how do I even
27:0627 minutes, 6 secondsstart? I'm nobody here. So that sense I like the idea though and and the idea for our listeners is related to
27:1527 minutes, 15 secondsnetworking mentors and and I think that you're taking you've done some serious formal academic study and research on
27:2327 minutes, 23 secondsmentorship. I have been talking about what I call reverse mentorship. I would like to see, let me bounce this idea off you. Maybe it'll get into your product plan,
27:3327 minutes, 33 secondsbut I I'd like to see where uh we're measuring the
27:3927 minutes, 39 secondsupward mentorship. like what did I learn from this mentoring session that I had not just what was the feedback like in
27:4827 minutes, 48 secondsmy experience most of the time it's I'm writing a report so to speak about what needs to happen or the changes or the observations or the concerns whatever it
27:5627 minutes, 56 secondsmight be that is about this mentoring topic you know that that's in front of us and what I find when I'm super
28:0328 minutes, 3 secondsengaged is that I almost learn more from the mentee uh so I'm thinking this two-way mentorship thing is good for
28:1128 minutes, 11 secondsmentors. It keeps us sharp. It It brings our own skills and talents forward. How what do are you seeing anything like
28:1928 minutes, 19 secondsthat? Is that in your product plan or did I just get it in edgewise?
Chapter 9: Why teaching is the best way to learn
28:2228 minutes, 22 secondsIt is in the product plan. Um one thing that I'd like to stay from the start is like if you're the smartest person in
28:2928 minutes, 29 secondsthe room, you're in the wrong room. Uh so you're wasting your time basically.
28:3428 minutes, 34 secondsSo that's been always my motto like always be in a room where you have so much more to like learn and then um
28:4428 minutes, 44 secondsteaching which I'm I'm making a parallel between teaching and mentoring is teaching is the best way to learn like when when you
28:5328 minutes, 53 secondsthinks of something and you become an expert in that and then you think you know it but then we need to when you need to explain it to somebody or get
29:0129 minutes, 1 secondsomebody on board with the idea or or see what their perspective is on that,
29:0729 minutes, 7 secondsyou will think about it in a different way. You will put yourself in the other person's shoes and try to think, okay,
29:1329 minutes, 13 secondshow might I explain this in a way that is useful or applicable for them. So,
29:1929 minutes, 19 secondsyou start to think about your own ideas in a different way because the only way mentorship works is if it's situationalized and and personalized to
29:2829 minutes, 28 secondsthat person. It's not like there is one truth. I learned it and now I'm just kind of, you know, giving it to you and you just better take it and like it. So
29:3629 minutes, 36 secondsit's uh it's I think any fun at all. No fun.
29:4029 minutes, 40 secondsSo um so definitely I I think you're you are completely right in that because it's it is like teaching. It's the best
29:4829 minutes, 48 secondsway to learn and to surround yourself with people that are and also young people they know different things. I mean, we can't possibly uh keep up with
29:5629 minutes, 56 secondswith everything that's going on. And by just like opening up yourself and then the other person for that conversation
30:0230 minutes, 2 secondsand that exchange of expertise of or or the lack of it in in some cases, it it just is it's just
30:1030 minutes, 10 secondsmagic. And what what I'm thinking like my big insight is like everybody is a mentor. And this is like one of the
30:1830 minutes, 18 secondsthings that I I started thinking about coming here is there are so many experts out there who think mentorship is
30:2630 minutes, 26 secondssomething um I don't know fancy or something that they need to I don't know learn in a school or or they are not
30:3530 minutes, 35 secondsenough to be a mentor. Uh so I want to change that. I want to enable people leaders especially to kind of learn how
30:4530 minutes, 45 secondsto be a mentor. there's not so much there's just a few rules and some like good advice that they can take and make
30:5230 minutes, 52 secondsthat expertise uh more available to different leaders.
30:5630 minutes, 56 secondsI mean this is I think we're just locking so much into people who just don't are
31:0431 minutes, 4 secondsnot aware how they could share that knowledge and there are no really good ways to do that. How who do you become a
31:1131 minutes, 11 secondsmentor? Like what's the door? Where where do I knock?
Chapter 10: The biggest hiring mistake founders make
31:1431 minutes, 14 secondsYears ago I first got involved with Michael Burcham,
31:1831 minutes, 18 secondsa mentor of mine in and whether he knows it or not, you know, I paid real close attention to everything that he did. And uh I came through a a mentorship
31:2731 minutes, 27 secondstraining program at the Entrepreneur Center in Nashville, which is where we're actually recording today. And uh I
31:3431 minutes, 34 secondswanted I did that because I wanted to become a better mentor myself. I wanted to learn how I could mentor inside my organization. I got to sit down with him
31:4231 minutes, 42 secondsand and I asked him, 'What do you think is the the mistake that most entrepreneurs make? And he said, "Hiring people you can afford
31:5131 minutes, 51 secondsis the number one mistake we make." And I've got clients and um you know, I'm in
31:5831 minutes, 58 secondsthe M&A business, so I I I see lots of different companies and and and I I've I've never lost that. It's difficult to reconcile. you know, you're a startup,
32:0932 minutes, 9 secondsyou don't have the money, but you need this kind of talent. You have to be able to make that deal, whatever that deal is, to get that talent into your organization.
32:1732 minutes, 17 secondsAnd yet, many of times, we just don't because of these constraints. We don't think outside of whatever that constraint is. That that's a constraint.
32:2832 minutes, 28 secondsI can't afford that person. I can't hire that person. That's the biggest mistake we make. Mhm.
32:3232 minutes, 32 secondsAnd I look back on my own career and uh I think it I think he's accurate. I think it is the number one problem.
32:3932 minutes, 39 secondsHiring people that we can afford is a mistake.
Chapter 11: Leadership sets the culture
32:4332 minutes, 43 secondsYeah. Um and I will like put one more layer there. Um then again the from the
32:5132 minutes, 51 secondskind of the culture company culture uh view towards then the leadership like first it's it's really um
33:0033 minuteslike the the leader the manager like creates the culture like with every decision that they make they will create the culture. It's not like
33:0933 minutes, 9 secondsthings are haphazard and things are like weird and then we do this company culture workshop and that will fix everything. No no the leadership sets the weather. It's
33:1833 minutes, 18 secondslike from like how you step in from the door up to the point like how you pick up the call or leave the room or or how
33:2533 minutes, 25 secondsyou set meetings or whatever that that's the culture. So um my obsession with this mentorship now is
33:3433 minutes, 34 secondsis partly also due to the the leadership culture which is which keeps on traumatizing people like the number one
33:4133 minutes, 41 secondsreason for people to leave work is because of their boss. I mean, how can
33:4833 minutes, 48 secondswe afford this? And this is just a question that is kind of bothering me.
33:5233 minutes, 52 secondsWe have this like special um like potential in leaders uh to become
34:0034 minutesmentors so that all of us can become better leaders. And I I just want to kind of I think there is like we need to kind of put that all into one box
34:0934 minutes, 9 secondssomehow because we shouldn't tolerate bad leadership. We we should not because we can't afford it.
34:1734 minutes, 17 secondsAmen.
34:1934 minutes, 19 secondsI love the idea that Estonia from a startup perspective is punching above its weight class. Let's just drill into that a little bit more. Give us some
34:2734 minutes, 27 secondsstatistics. Tell us what you're proud of.
34:3034 minutes, 30 secondsYeah, I'm happy to. Glad you asked. Um I mean Estonia has is kind of a country
34:3834 minutes, 38 secondswhich is small like very few people 1.3 million um and not a lot of natural resources not even mountains or like
34:4634 minutes, 46 secondswaterfalls or anything. So um what do we have like our people our brains um that's what actually Nashville says
34:5334 minutes, 53 secondsabout themselves as well. So I I I already like see resonating back back here. Uh but what was a really cool
35:0135 minutes, 1 secondthing in the '9s um the president at that time uh we had just regained independence. I was there.
35:0935 minutes, 9 secondsYou were there right? Yes,
35:1135 minutes, 11 secondsI was. I was in Moscow in uh the moment which on the day that Latvia, Estonia,
35:1935 minutes, 19 secondsLithuania voted to separate and that was the beginning of the end of the then Soviet Union. That is crazy.
35:2635 minutes, 26 secondsVery very exciting time. a wild um the singing revolution, everybody holding hands, the Baltic chain. This
35:3435 minutes, 34 secondswas just I mean I was 10 so I don't remember all of it but um that was a crazy time it
35:4235 minutes, 42 secondsyeah but I'm happy I I actually lived through that like the singing revolution like whoa like people sang for freedom.
35:4935 minutes, 49 secondsUm I don't think you may go go a bit further with that. I don't think people know this story. What happened singing for freedom? Uh yeah, it's like people
35:5835 minutes, 58 secondsstarted gathering uh right before the actual collapse of the of the Soviet uh
36:0536 minutes, 5 secondsUnion like the secret night song festivals. I mean song festivals themselves have a long history um like
36:1436 minutes, 14 secondsback into the like enlightenment times of of the Estonian culture uh in general.
36:2036 minutes, 20 secondsAnd the these song festivals happen every four years but they had become this national symbol of identity and
36:2736 minutes, 27 secondsfreedom and Estonianness. So I guess that was the point where people thought like this is something that unites us
36:3436 minutes, 34 secondsall like this song festival that they were at night gathering in this song festival grounds just singing like these
36:4236 minutes, 42 secondsum amazing national songs about like freedom and and such things. So um it
36:5136 minutes, 51 secondswas definitely not like viewed upon very in a in a good way but but this was how people united. This was the uniting
37:0037 minutesforce and everybody came together and then that's why we call it like a singing revolution because everybody came like hundreds of thousands of
37:0837 minutes, 8 secondspeople just gathered to sing together and that was like that stayed as the symbol of independence and and kind of
37:1637 minutes, 16 secondsregaining that independence of that sense of no matter how much I hate my neighbor right now we will go together
37:2537 minutes, 25 secondsand sing together tonight and until we become free and then we can you know continue being you know annoyed
37:3137 minutes, 31 secondsneighbors but that moment of really kind of coming together that state so that's why we call it still like singing our to
37:3937 minutes, 39 secondsinto our principle it's beautiful you actually my wife Jenny and I host uh
37:4737 minutes, 47 secondssong circles at my home and it's a foreign thing for most people but it
37:5337 minutes, 53 secondswould be like as simple as uplifting spiritual ually uh rejuvenating
38:0138 minutes, 1 secondshort songs that you can learn in five minutes and everybody sings and and it might be 20 30 people in my house and you came to uh to a circle.
38:1238 minutes, 12 secondsI'm scared.
38:1438 minutes, 14 secondsWhat were you scared about? You went through the singing revolution.
38:1738 minutes, 17 secondsI don't Yeah, but I don't really sing unless it's like a choir of thousand people. Yeah, unless your voice is lost.
38:2438 minutes, 24 secondsYeah, exactly. Exactly. Well, I'm here to tell you, you have a great voice. And I think that voices, this this um muscle that we exercise,
38:3338 minutes, 33 secondsit carries with it a signature. It carries with it love. It carries with it voice. Uh like you mentioned earlier,
38:4038 minutes, 40 secondsintonation and language. And um I I I think there are far too many people that don't use their voice and
38:4938 minutes, 49 secondsdon't um in a metaphorical sense as well.
38:5238 minutes, 52 secondsYeah, absolutely. um singing as a muscle or using your voice to communicate
39:0039 minutesas a first option instead of being um lost, right?
39:0739 minutes, 7 secondsYeah. It's like breathing. It's like it completely takes you into another place and you can't be mad anymore or you can't be sad anymore. It's like you
39:1439 minutes, 14 secondstransform yourself in a very particular way. Nobody Nobody sings with a frown.
39:1939 minutes, 19 secondsYeah, exactly. You can't. Um, I love how these conversations with you always like start from one place and there's like no
39:2639 minutes, 26 secondsway of telling where that sentence will end. So about that startup ecosystem. Yeah.
39:3439 minutes, 34 secondsPunching above its weight. Punching above its weight. It's like,
39:3939 minutes, 39 secondsokay, so we're this independent young democracy. What do we have? Like we're few. We don't have a lot of like
39:4639 minutes, 46 secondsanything. Uh we're poor. um we need to somehow make ourselves bigger and more and and better. So um we had a very a
39:5539 minutes, 55 secondsvery clever president at the time Leonard Murray and also the uh the minister of foreign affairs Thomas Andre Kilves who also later became president.
Chapter 12: The decision that changed Estonia’s future
40:0440 minutes, 4 secondsSo they came up with the idea that uh the internet was a kind of a new thing and they didn't know exactly what it
40:1240 minutes, 12 secondswill do but they knew that it's a it's a way to make ourselves bigger. uh in in a way that doesn't need necessarily you
40:2140 minutes, 21 secondsknow um drawing our country you know uh lines in a new place but um so internet
40:3040 minutes, 30 secondswas a thing and computers were put into each school. So this is what we call the tiger leap. Um, so first it was maybe
40:3940 minutes, 39 secondsfun, you know, guys got to the computers and played video games and it was just like a fun thing to do. But now if you
40:4740 minutes, 47 secondstalk to those tech founders, um, nine out of 10 will tell you like if you ask them, so how what's your story? Like how did you become this successful founder?
40:5640 minutes, 56 secondsOh yeah, I started to play with a computer at school. So now they just got bored and then they said, okay, what else can this machine
41:0541 minutes, 5 secondsdo? And so that that's how they started to learn programming. And that's kind of like really the story. And uh fast forward to Skype. I mean Skype was
41:1341 minutes, 13 secondsinvented by Estonian engineers. And when Skype was um like did an exit of course it was bought by uh eBay. Yeah.
41:2341 minutes, 23 secondsFirst um another unicorn.
41:2541 minutes, 25 secondsSo yeah, it was like a unicorn. It was a success story like nothing before. like what came out of the Skype sort of the
41:3341 minutes, 33 secondsevent or the big bang was a lot of uh capital, a lot of talent that knew how to scale a global company. Uh and there
41:4241 minutes, 42 secondswere so many new tech companies that were founded at this time that now it has taken us to this new waves of new
41:5041 minutes, 50 secondsunicorns and is like breeding new waves because of that one explosion. Of course, there was also other things
41:5741 minutes, 57 secondshappening because um you know planets need to align and and together with a Skype effect of of course there was a at
42:0642 minutes, 6 secondsthat point a clever um like governmental um decision made like we need this umbrella organization like that's how
42:1442 minutes, 14 secondsstartup Estonia was also uh born like we need some kind of bigger plan a bigger
42:2142 minutes, 21 secondsvision to make sure we use all of this like little sprouts that are coming up of this that we just make sure we use
42:2842 minutes, 28 secondsall of that. So all of the startup visa and of course our digital uh infrastructure of the state it makes it really easy to start a company and to
42:3642 minutes, 36 secondstake it um to take it global. So I mean that was a very wise decision and uh and the community this is what I see here as
42:4542 minutes, 45 secondswell like how people help each other out and how you can get to everybody really uh fast and and everybody wants to give
42:5342 minutes, 53 secondsback. So that is the sense of community and I've heard this uh spoken about so much in your uh previous podcasts as
43:0043 minuteswell like this is the this is the same vibe like you can never be a successful ecosystem without that
43:0843 minutes, 8 secondsyou know the the close-knit community and the supportive kind of services and the infrastructure and also the people
43:1543 minutes, 15 secondsyou need to know. So I'm yeah that's the story. I think we recently had a miniseries. So I've been experimenting with the parallel
43:2343 minutes, 23 secondsentrepreneur podcast and most of it's been you know one-hour format kind of stuff and then we started doing some really short format and the the purpose
43:3243 minutes, 32 secondswas to discuss innovation and it was really with a a lens on on Nashville.
Chapter 13: What innovation actually means
43:3843 minutes, 38 secondsAnd so we've been talking around this subject all this session really about innovation. And I'm curious if you were to try to put a a pin in it, you know,
43:5043 minutes, 50 secondswhat is it that makes a company innovative? What is it that makes a person innovative? And then if we're trying to reinvent ourselves, how can we be more innovative?
43:5943 minutes, 59 secondsAh, you gave me a big one here. Um I was I have been thinking about this so much and the best way to think about
44:0744 minutes, 7 secondsinnovation is not to mention innovation in a way because it's such a big term.
44:1444 minutes, 14 secondsIt's like when you tell somebody uh I would like to help you be more innovative which is what we as as an innovation agency wanted to do then it
44:2344 minutes, 23 secondskind of has this awkward effect where um the founders may even like pull back.
44:2944 minutes, 29 secondsIt's like no it sounds like too fancy or it's not for us like we just do what we do and you know because innovation it
44:3844 minutes, 38 secondshas so many things in it like what do you want to do better do you want to make more profit do you want to I don't
44:4644 minutes, 46 secondsknow uh be a better employer do you want to have a a fancier I don't know product
44:5344 minutes, 53 secondsdo you want to be like change completely the the way the business model uh do you want to What is it that you want to
45:0045 minuteschange? And I think like we've maybe scared a lot of um I'd say mature companies at least like startups they
45:0945 minutes, 9 secondsthey are fine but like I'm talking about the the mature company who's maybe a bit scared by the word innovation like we need to maybe change the way we talk
45:1845 minutes, 18 secondsabout it at least in Estonia like how do you want to be better? Do you want to be like get better people to work for you or do you want to just make more money
45:2745 minutes, 27 secondslike be happier? uh or do you want to just incorporate like uh digital processes better so that you can
45:3445 minutes, 34 secondsactually do work faster and like do less like stupid things. So that's that's one thing but uh uh for me I've just learned
45:4345 minutes, 43 secondsI'm vetting I'm I'm betting do less stupid things.
45:4645 minutes, 46 secondsExactly right. Uh but the way I love to think about innovation right now is all thanks to Dave Owens, the professor at Wandry,
45:5445 minutes, 54 secondsuh who teaches innovation through six constraints. And I love how he puts it like let's say normally a boss comes to
46:0346 minutes, 3 secondsyou and says so um you start like bringing me some new ideas like I want to do something cool. So give me
46:1246 minutes, 12 secondssomething out of the box. So what you do is go and think something really crazy and really like wow and then bring it to
46:2046 minutes, 20 secondsthe boss and they say no too expensive no too risky no d all those things. So
46:2746 minutes, 27 secondswhat he says is like innovation has six constraints like there are individual constraints team constraints organizational societal industry and
46:3746 minutes, 37 secondstechnological. So you don't need to think outside the box but rather inside the box like where all those constraints
46:4546 minutes, 45 secondsare dealt with and met that leaves you if you think about this vin diagram like there are these six no can do areas that
46:5546 minutes, 55 secondsleaves you only this little middle piece where you can actually operate. So that like that that takes all of the people
47:0347 minutes, 3 secondsto be creative, the team to give you enough support and like emotional you know confidence to even bring those
47:1147 minutes, 11 secondsideas to the table that needs an organization that has a structure and processes that enable you to be
47:1747 minutes, 17 secondsinnovative and it needs like the society to accept that innovation. It's like, I don't know, Segue for example. Like,
47:2447 minutes, 24 secondsyeah, who cares? I I want to get on a Segway once and then after that I'm a policeman in an airport.
47:3047 minutes, 30 secondsWhere do I even take it? Um, and then the technology needs to work obviously and then the the industry uh needs to
47:3847 minutes, 38 secondskind of the the ecosystem needs to uh approve that and and be able to like everything around it needs to you know make this feasible. So it leaves you
47:4747 minutes, 47 secondsthis middle space where you can actually do innovation and like how you go about fixing those. On some things you have
47:5447 minutes, 54 secondsmore power over some things you have less power but to know like what is your biggest constraint and kind of try and
48:0348 minutes, 3 secondswork around that and make sure that like you make that little space bigger to give you like a more room for that
48:0948 minutes, 9 secondsinnovation. Uh so that is that is I think this is the most genius the simplest way I have ever heard anybody
48:1748 minutes, 17 secondsexplain like and take it to practice and you talked a little bit about not having the resources so you have to be
48:2448 minutes, 24 secondsmore careful with how you allocate time for mentorship and who gets that resource and so that's a constraint. Um,
48:3148 minutes, 31 secondssome of the most creative projects I've been involved in are are starting with the constraint in mind. And what can we do within that box that is our cage, but
48:4148 minutes, 41 secondsin fact is our competitive beach head or our our landing place for innovation.
48:4748 minutes, 47 secondsThat's really interesting. I appreciate that. Um you you uh you've got a opportunity to to land with
48:5648 minutes, 56 secondslike like if we were to say we're closing this conversation out. What what's the question that you thought I would ask you that I have not?
49:0849 minutes, 8 secondsUm maybe what did what do you ah no I don't know
49:1949 minutes, 19 secondsactually you you asked me a lot of questions um and I think I said more than I planned to
49:2749 minutes, 27 secondsum maybe yeah something that what I will take home from this experience because it's been like an academic journey and
49:3649 minutes, 36 secondsbusiness journey and social and and individual journey. So, I'm just going to ask myself,
49:4349 minutes, 43 secondsyeah, what do what do you what are you going to take home from this experience?
Chapter 14: What she’s taking from this experience
49:4749 minutes, 47 secondsYeah, I really want to tie it back to the starting point where um we said like you constantly reinvent yourself and I
49:5649 minutes, 56 secondsreally reinvented myself here and I found these new ways that I could be like the new me that are all possible
50:0550 minutes, 5 secondsand I really believe that like we've talked about this before but that the universe has like this multiple journeys
50:1250 minutes, 12 secondslaid out ahead of you and you just have to be brave. brave enough and maybe say yes more uh and open more doors to kind
50:2150 minutes, 21 secondsof just let yourself carried be carried onto those onto those journeys. Uh not like in a way where you have to push
50:2850 minutes, 28 secondsyourself because that's going to maybe create a friction but just believe that you can become somebody that you want to
50:3650 minutes, 36 secondsbecome and then go and and become it. I think I have become a much better person with this experience. Like I've met so
50:4550 minutes, 45 secondsmany different people like my understanding of cultural differences. I thought I knew what it means to have cultural differences. Uh-uh. I did not.
50:5550 minutes, 55 secondsAnd I think it's something you can't read from a newspaper or book. You have to experience that. And what it means to
51:0251 minutes, 2 secondshave different perspectives and and backgrounds. Uh what it means to be entrepreneurial. Definitely. I think I I learned this here more than any time
51:1251 minutes, 12 secondsbefore and that I I'm continuing to to reinvent myself. And I think this is a an experience where you just take
51:2051 minutes, 20 secondsyourself if if you ever can or whoever is listening and needs that push right now to take this time somehow and and
51:2851 minutes, 28 secondsgive yourself this this space and opportunity to just sit around, not put
51:3551 minutes, 35 secondsthe TV on, not read anything, and just kind of let yourself come up with crazy
51:4151 minutes, 41 secondsideas or discover things that you were curious about because that's the that's the hard currency, right? Curiosity.
51:5051 minutes, 50 secondsYeah. I've heard it said that and boredom is when your mind gets enough rest to actually be creative. Yeah.
51:5851 minutes, 58 secondsAnd when we're pursuing so hard, so much doing, we don't get the opportunity to just be pleasantly bored.
52:0852 minutes, 8 secondsAnd then you make different connections under those environments. You know,
52:1252 minutes, 12 secondsthat's a that's an interesting Well, I hope you're not pleasantly bored in Nashville too often. No, no. I keep myself busy. U Yeah.
52:2152 minutes, 21 secondsThank you, Mark. I think this was just meant to be. Like, thanks for being my buddy. I love it. Love it.
52:2752 minutes, 27 secondsHey, thanks for listening to another episode of the Parallel Entrepreneur. And thank you to our sponsors, partners,
52:3352 minutes, 33 secondsand the special team behind the scenes that make it all possible. Be sure to like, follow, or subscribe to our
52:4052 minutes, 40 secondspodcast and get the latest updates. And to learn more about this growing community of entrepreneurs, our
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52:5552 minutes, 55 secondsAnd of course, thank you to all the visionary guests who trust us to share their stories.