Dan Hollaway: Male Aggression, Rejecting Victimhood, & Helping Others | MMP #218

We were lucky enough to be joined by Dan Hollaway from the insanely popular show Drinkin Bros Podcast on today's episode of the show. In the episode we talked about:

• Men's Sense of Purpose and Leadership Abilities 
• Decline of Critical Thinking and Self-Reliance
• True Leadership Means Solving Local Problems
• Finding Purpose Through Community Service 
• Institutional Capture by Ideological Agendas
• Rebuilding Local Communities 
• Lack of Vigilance and Personal Responsibility 
• Harnessing Aggression Positively 
• Turning Pain into Empathy 

The Drinkin Bros Podcast is massively popular podcast that talks about current events and polarizing issues in today's world. This was an incredible conversation on leadership, developing as a man, and how to stand strong in a crazy world. Enjoy!

Connect with Meat Mafia:

Instagram - Meat Mafia
Twitter - Meat Mafia
YouTube - Meat Mafia

Connect with Noble Protein:

Website - Noble Protein
Twitter - Noble Protein
Instagram - Noble Protein

SPONSORS

1. Fond Bone Broth - 15% OFF - REAL bone broth with HIGH-QUALITY ingredients! It’s a daily product for us!
2. Fold App - Earn Bitcoin on all of your purchases by using the Fold Debit Card - it's simple, easy, and a fun way to earn bitcoin as you spend money on healthy foods! Use code MEATMAFIA to earn 100,000 sats when you sign up for Fold's FREE bitcoin rewards debit card & spend $20 with the card. 
3. NOBLE ORIGINS Complete and simple, animal-based protein powder with an organ blend for additional nutrition!

AFFILIATES

1. LMNT - Electrolyte salts to supplement minerals on low-carb diet
2. The Carnivore Bar - CODE MAFIA for 10% OFF - Delicious & convenient Pemmican Bar
3. Perennial Pastures - 10% OFF - Regeneratively raised, grass-fed & grass-finished beef from California & Montana
4. Farrow Skincare - Use the CODE 'MAFIA' at checkout for 20% OFF
5. Heart & Soil - CODE ‘MEATMAFIA10’ for 10% OFF - enhanced nutrition to replace daily vitamins!
6. Carnivore Crisps - 10% OFF - Carnivore / Animal-based snacks for eating healthy on the go! CODE: MEATMAFIA
7. Pluck Seasoning - 10% OFF - Nutrient-dense seasoning with INSANE flavor! CODE: MAFIA
8. We Feed Raw 25% OFF your first order - ancestrally consistent food for your dog! CODE 'MEATMAFIA25'

Creators & Guests

Host

Brett Ender 🥩⚡️

The food system is corrupt and trying to poison us... I will teach you how to fight back. Co-Host of @themeatmafiapod 🥩

Host

Harry Gray 🥩⚡️

Leading the Red Meat Renaissance 🥩 ⚡️| Co-Host of @themeatmafiapod

What is The Meat Mafia Podcast?

The Meat Mafia Podcast is hosted by @MeatMafiaBrett and @MeatMafiaHarry.

We're two guys who walked away from the typical path to carve out something different. Based in Austin, we’re on a mission to figure out what it takes to live a fulfilled life in a world that often pushes us away from meaning.

We have conversations with people we believe can help us, diving deep into the pillars of health, wealth, and faith, as the cornerstones of our mission.

Whether it's challenging the modern food system, questioning conventional health advice, or building something from the ground up, we're here to explore the tough questions and share the lessons we’ve learned along the way.

If you're tired of the noise and ready to find meaning, tune in and join us!

themeatmafiapodcast.substack.com

Dan, thanks for joining me, man. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I came for the meat. I mean, why else would you be sitting down with me? Yeah. Well, why else would I be sitting down at all? vertical at all times? Sitting down is a sign of weakness. Yeah, you have to be vertical 24 hours a day. I think so. Have you ever recorded a podcast standing up?

Uh, yeah, in a strip club actually in Houston, a place called Buck's Wild. Um, we were getting ready to go on a cruise with about two or three hundred of our fans. Uh, and we, it just so happened that we all, not all, but a lot of people stopped at this one particular hotel in Houston. Yeah. Or just south of Houston, I guess.

I don't know exactly where it is, but. Um, before going down to Galveston the next morning to get on the boat and these assholes like drank all the booze that the hotel had. So we had, they're like, we want to go drink somewhere. I'm like, all right, cool. Um, and somebody knew, I don't know if they knew somebody at the club or whatever, but or they called them or whatever, like, Hey, we want to do a show over there.

I'm like, all right, cool. They said, yeah. So let's go over there. Obviously it was audio only. Yeah. Cause you can't video inside of a. Strip club, I don't think but yeah, we stuck that whole time mostly though because I didn't want to sit down on anything Yeah, a lot of mysterious fluids there. I would imagine.

Yeah, it's mostly I think yeah. Yeah, it gets some aids there Yeah, so, you know, but it was a fun show Yeah, I feel like when you're vertical like if I'm taking a call when I'm vertical There's something about it where you're just like much more direct and to the point. I don't know what that is. But Maybe I mean, you know the shower principle, right?

Like if you If you distract the mechanical part of your brain, then the thinking part of your brain operates a little more fluidly, you know, the connection between prefrontal cortex and hippocampus where memories are stored is a little bit more linear instead of getting, it's almost like RFI, like radio frequency interference, kind of slowing shit down.

Interesting. Speaking of the shower, I obviously had a hard hitting question for you to start off the Meet Mafia podcast. I learned this when I sat, Harry and I sat in on your show, which was hysterical by the way. Is it true that you do not shit and brush your teeth in the same bathroom? That's correct.

Yeah, that's a that's a no go for you Yeah, I mean, I think most modern homes actually have uh, like in the master Bathroom toilet is like in a separate little room right with a door on it. That's there's a reason for that Yeah, it's because shit particles are just floating around everywhere. It's disgusting.

I'm not into that Which is funny because I will eat ass You will eat ass, but you will not, not my own ass. Not your own ass. Yeah. But that, that seems like an appropriate thing to do, frankly. So you go two separate bathrooms for that? Well, yeah. I mean, I've got a dump bathroom. Yeah. I'll pee in the, uh, the one in my master bedroom or bathroom rather.

But there's, uh, there's an isolated bathroom on one side of my house next to my media room. And I've got a nice like it's not a Japanese toilet or anything, but it's a nice bidet, you know, keep sure, uh, I've got a very first world butthole that needs caring for. So cleanest asshole in Dalton. Uh, it, wait, is that a reference to something?

Is that, or sorry, what, what town? Not Dalton. Driftwood. Oh yeah, it's definitely, there's only like. 90 people that live there I think so I would challenge. Yeah, I'll take that challenge. You might be cleanest asshole in Austin proper Honestly, well, see I'm in Hayes County, but it's and it's yeah, it's a different city I guess if you mean Austin Metro, maybe Austin Metro, I don't know definitely the cleanest straight asshole on a dude Yeah, I think maybe gay dudes pay more attention to that out of necessity, but Yeah, mine is just I don't know why I do it.

So yours is pristine. Um thoughts on the squatty potty essential or no Um, well if you go to the middle east, that's how everybody shits. Yeah It's over just a hole in the floor and they squat like that, right? I guess it makes your colon more or straighter There's less bands. I I don't know if it works or not.

I do know that the company is uh, they're all mormons That's interesting, right? Interesting. Yeah, I guess maybe Mormons care about shitting Maybe, uh, they need a clean asshole for their eight wives or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Or maybe cause they wear that holy underwear too. I don't know if it, if that becomes a problem at some point.

So who knows, you know, what is holy underwear? Um, it's like, uh, it's just like cotton shorts and a, and a shirt basically. Interesting. I don't, I, the purpose is to protect you from like, whatever. People need protecting from, I guess. Um, yeah. Is there a hole for your dick, or no? Uh, you know what, I don't remember.

There was a dude in my basic training, though, that wore that shit. I should have asked him. Hmm, but I never thought to you next time. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm not doing that again It is even interesting though thinking about the toilet reference I keep thinking about this a lot because obviously our podcast started as a nutrition podcast And you think about how much we fuck things up just in terms of the food system what we actually eat Yeah, and we can't even shit right anymore, too.

We're not even shitting the right way. Yeah, it's you know, there is a it is true that Culture is behind Discovery a lot, right? Like the, uh, so we've known there, there are good German studies in the late nineties, early two thousands that showed that high protein, but low fiber diets increase your risk of, uh, prostate and colon cancer exponentially.

Right. Um, Elvis, aside from the pills, he was taking the lock jam in his butthole. It's a big problem for him. That's how he died. Right. And, uh, you know, Prostate and colon cancer is a big problem for dudes. Um, some of it's genetic. There's a big part, there's like two genetic markers for it, I think. Um, but it's only kind of a sure thing if you, if anything ever is, if you have both genetic markers, I believe so, you know, there's ways around it.

Like, I think, I don't really like eating plants that much. Yeah. For reasons that we will get into as this conversation goes along, but you definitely need to get fiber into your body. Like it's the binding agent. It's like putting egg and flour, uh, into, uh, uh, or a egg and breading into, like, you know, whatever you're trying to bind together or whatever.

If you don't do that, then, you know, anything that is, this is pretty disgusting, but hard particles in your, in your, uh, Asshole are just gonna stick to the sides. Yeah fester over time. You're gonna get cancer. It's stupid So eat an apple from time to time, I guess Yeah, so you throw in fruit every once in a while then primarily I take a fiber supplement.

Okay, it's like a green it's more it's like Ginger and apple and a bunch of stuff just freeze dried basically and I just throw it into a shake. Hmm. When did you kind of have your nutrition red pill realizing that like red meat is actually good for you? We're taught just the wrong thing about nutrition.

Uh, I don't know. I've always been like that. I mean, no, nothing that well first of all, I think just distrusting the government That's where you should always begin, you know what I mean? And I remember looking at the food pyramid when I was a kid. I'm like, this is fucking stupid Yeah, I mean like grain is the most important part of our diet.

No grain is what poor people eat Yeah, like in the Roman Coliseum, they weren't throwing steaks and vegetables up into the fucking crowd They were throwing loaves of bread because it's easy to make and cheap Um, so typically this isn't always the case, but if something has value, that means it's good.

Yeah. Typically. Right. Yes. If something has no value like bread, it's probably not great. Um, you know, and then, you know, I guess around the time I got out of the army, I started hearing more and more about different diets. Paleo was one, uh, that was big at the time. A lot of people were like dabbling in veganism and shit like that, which is dumb.

Um, but. Yeah. Yeah, I'd like to, uh, the, the, the paleo diet itself seemed a little suspect to me. You know what I mean? It's like some of that makes sense, but how much activity are you doing on a daily basis? Totally. I mean, like, are you like, Oh, our ancestors did this, you know, they also ran away from mountain lions and they had to chase their own food.

So how much sense does that make? But then, I think those concerns are muted compared to the concerns for like a vegan or vegetarian diet. That shit's stupid, man. I mean, so animals have legs so they can run away. They've got claws and teeth to fight you and they have brains to think and hide and all this shit.

Plants only have biodefense mechanisms. That's the only way that they can protect themselves. Not just from people trying to eat them like herbivores and shit. Uh, but also from, you know, just shit in nature. Uh, pestilence and, and such. And it's weird to me that, like, that's something that's always been in the back of my brain for the last 10 or 15 years.

But you say that to people and they look at you like, what do you mean? Yeah. Do you, do you think that the only, the only living things on earth that protect themselves are animals, really? Like, that's, that's dumb, man. That's not how nature works. So there's some stuff like root vegetables are typically pretty good because they, Protect themselves by hiding in the ground, but anything that grows above ground.

You should look into it Yeah, where you started putting that shit in your body to be honest, and that's just Vegetables and this is I'm not like an anti vegetable guy. I love vegetables. Actually, I think they taste great I just don't think they're very efficient and getting nutrition into your body, but I'm not trying to proselytize anybody, but you should look into it, right?

I mean totally If you think you're getting you know, you read the back of a label you look it up on the internet well one piece of This particular vegetable has X amount of calories in these nutrients. Well, maybe are you absorbing them? Because one of the primary biodefense mechanisms that plants use is to make their, the nutrient inside the non absorbable.

That's one of the things that it does. Right. So, uh, aside from causing gastric distress and other shit like that, and again, this is all before you even get into the weird stuff that Monsanto and these other companies have done over the years as far as poisoning our entire food supply. Yeah. Yeah. You're talking about, um, like the absorbability of animal products versus vegetables.

And it's like, it makes me think back to in school, like, why do we just not have like a basic fundamental level of like nutrition, right? Well, you know. Yeah, it's, if you're eating, I tell people this all the time, if you're taking supplements, so I don't know if you remember this, but sometime in like 2014 or 15, I think a huge like 25 year study, uh, it may have been 17 I don't remember exactly when there's a huge 25 year study, uh, that showed the absorbability rates of over the counter supplements.

Right. It was basically zero. Because and and I don't understand or I don't know how we all made it to adulthood without knowing this but the The primary way that nutrients get into your bloodstream or by being fat soluble right by clinging to lipids. That's why they exist And entering your bloodstream that way.

That's the, and all this talk about high cholesterol and stuff, it's just so stupid. It's so dumb. I mean, certainly you don't want to be off the rails on in any kind of way, but man, we, it's like the forest for the trees, but it does. It also seems to be to some degree intentional, you know what I mean? Like I don't know if it's financial interest in different types of food products.

I I I would guess that Processed foods are a higher revenue generating industry than natural foods probably right? Yeah I don't know that for a fact but it my brain says that that's the case because if you look at a grocery store Your book ended with normal food and then just garbage all through the middle.

So you have to think the revenue is quite a bit higher. Dude, you're spot on. And to take what you said a step further, there's 37, 000 products in the average grocery store. It's about 10 to 12 companies that control them and they're literally all publicly traded. So with that, right, you literally have a fiduciary responsibility to maximize profit.

So of course you're gonna shitty quality oil Shitty quality sugar process grain combine those things make them super addictive and boom. You've got an incredible business right there Yeah, and it's you know I I am uh, I don't I really don't think I guess i'm kind of a radical when it comes to government But I don't think that the federal government should exist in the current form that it is, you know uh, like it's Uh, meant to federalize us not, not to make everything centralized at the federal level, but the, uh, federalism means essentially that, you know, there's a very small scope of enumerated tasks that the federal government's responsible for.

Then everything then returns to the states or lower municipal governments, right? Mm-hmm. , right? That's the point of our entire fucking country. Yeah. Set it up that way on purpose. Um, so yeah, I don't think the government should be giving out too much advice on what to eat and stuff like that, because one, they don't know what the fuck they're doing.

But two, it seems like when you introduce profit motive into things like that, it tends to become, um, problematic pretty quickly look at education and how it was infiltrated, you know, by Marxist nonsense. Uh, but at the same, it's really one of the most ironic. Things about modern Western life is that our entire education system both at the primary and secondary level has been captured by Marxist nonsense But at the same time it is capitalism run amok unchecked capitalism run amok to saddling 20 year olds with 150, 000 in debt.

Yeah. You know, before they can even get into the workforce and stuff like that. It's, and it, it, it shows you that these systems, it doesn't really matter how good the system is or not. It really, what really matters is how much effort you personally are willing to put into it. Because if you fall asleep at the, there's no system that is entirely self correcting or resilient from external bad actor influences.

It's not a thing, right? It doesn't matter how good your idea is. Um, one of my, one of my professors, I got a degree in computer network security back in the day, used to tell me, uh, that it doesn't matter how good your firewall software is, if somebody can just walk up and sit at a terminal and start punching keys, you know what I mean?

Yes. And we have felt, we've fallen asleep at the wheel. It's just the way it is. Um, good news is, you know, typically centralized power is a lot like Tinkerbell, you know what I mean? Like it's, it's a small group. Of people and their power only exists if we all agree at it. It does, right? Like, uh, not to quote game of thrones or anything, but Val Varys, one of his quotes was power lies where men believe it does.

Right? So it's like. If you stop giving these people your time and attention, then their power starts to recede. So how do you do that? The best way, I think, is to solve problems that the government is trying to solve, right? Before they can get there and fuck it up. So it starts with yourself. Yeah, ultimately, and making sure that you're Making sure that you're a value add to your community.

Now, how are you that, right? You're, you're Willing and capable, those are the two most important things. Uh, willing is obvious. You just, you know, decide that you're going to be part of the fucking solution here. But capable is an entirely different thing. You know, it's like that, that requires some actual effort to do that.

You educate yourself, um, you know, and it starts at that level. You educate yourself, prepare yourself physically and mentally for, you know, what you need to do, learn skills and shit like that. But the second part of it is, and it's something that people like us haven't have a problem with a lot of the time because we are lousy fear.

We're like live and let live. You live your life and I'll live mine. And you know, that's what this country is all about. Yeah. But it takes. Constant maintenance. Yeah, Ben Franklin said, you know, what do we want out of all this? And he has a reply was a republic if you can keep it, right? It's work. It's like a relationship.

It's it's work every single day so the problem that a lot of us have is Not becoming just black pilled and exiting the process entirely because it's easy to do that. It's easy to become nihilistic these days Yeah, because our institutions are all fucked right? They're all just captured by By corporate interests and things like that and woke nonsense So it's easy to look at all that and be like, you know what?

I'm, just gonna cast my vote and then pay attention again in four years Well, we're well beyond that process, right? Yeah, I mean are well beyond that point if you continue to do that. Um It's going to be a problem. You know, we're not going to vote our way out of these problems that we've created I'm, not saying don't vote what i'm saying is it's going to take more than that.

Yeah, you know what I mean? I really love what you said about starting with yourself and actually asking yourself the question. Am I being a value added society? We were talking about our mutual friend, uh, Tucker Max, who you've had on the show a bunch of times. And one of the things that he said to us was when he was kind of going through his like transformative process trick, like kind of cleaning himself up and realizing, Hey, maybe I want to settle down with a woman.

He made a list of all the characteristics that he looked that he was going to look for in that partner. It was like super detailed list, 20 plus things. And then he was like, he kind of had this moment where he was like, fuck, if someone was to make a list of characteristics for themselves, would I fit on that list for that woman?

And it kind of reminds me of what you said, where so many people are just like, what can society do for me? It's like, no dude, start with yourself and fucking be value add to someone else. Yeah, that's the only way to really, I mean, like you wouldn't approach any other facet of your life like this. There's no, and maybe you do, but you're going to be a fucking failure.

Like if you're, if you're starting a business or something like that and you just, your entire sales pitch is what can you do for me? Well, good fucking luck with that. But you know what I mean? Uh, that's not going to work. So yeah, it's like all, all of human civilization, all of it from, you know, our last major DNA change a couple hundred thousand years ago.

All human civilization since then, and maybe forever with primates, especially has been about how can I make myself valuable enough to some group? Mostly historically, it's been, how do I make myself valuable to first a woman, right? And then to the tribe or whatever it is, whatever organization is so I can.

Either maintain my status there or improve my status there. That's the whole point. Yeah, I mean and for some reason Philosophers call this the is ought fallacy. So it's like there's this Whenever things are pretty peaceful or we think too much people start to question whether things are fair or not Well, I can tell you right now that they're not fair There's no point in even having that fucking debate but the is ought fallacy is like there is the way things are and then the way things we believe ought to be and That's fine, right?

It's fine to delineate between those two things because we should be constantly trying to improve our society, right? Yes. Make it better and better and better. Um, because, you know, thermodynamics, if you're not improving it, then it's getting worse. You know what I mean? There's entropy there. That part makes sense But when you start to confuse the two when you start to expect the odd, right?

And that's where we are in western culture right now We have this giant disconnect between effort and outcome now and the outcome is just expected at this point We expect a certain outcome and when it doesn't happen We have to find an excuse for it and it can't be our effort It has to be racism or sexism or class or whatever the fuck else.

You know what I mean? um, and it's we've never never in human history have we respected people who think that way and now it seems like You know, we spend a lot of time not just coddling those people, but talking about how they're fucking heroes. Like Lizzo is the standard for beauty. No, she is a ticking time bomb.

You know, her heart is going to explode at some point. That's not I'm not being mean to her. She's going to lose her fucking foot. That's how it works. Yes. Um, so. You know, this, we have to tackle this and it is, it is all happened over the course of, you know, the last, let's say 50 years or so, but this attack on our epistemology that the, like, what, what is, what are the fucking facts that we all agree on?

You know what I mean? Because If you don't agree on certain basic things, then you're not even having a conversation. It's basically like having a conversation with a six year old telling you about their Pokemon card collection. Like, okay, cool. Like, you're saying stuff and I'm hearing it, but it doesn't make any fucking sense to me.

And it's not just from one side or the other. That's, that's from, from both, uh, perspectives. So, if you don't agree on the base facts... Then, you know, you're, you're, it's not even playing the same game at that point. You know what I mean? Yeah. So you can't really have a conversation with, with somebody about that.

I mean, if you think about it from the perspective, let's say you're running a business and you have, uh, uh, three partners in the business and all three of you have a different idea about what the business should be, then you don't have a business. Yeah. I mean, you just have, you're, you're, you have. Two buddies and you're trying to do stuff, but that's not a business.

Yeah. Did you get to listen to uh, Andrew tate's interview on tucker carlson a couple weeks ago. No, I won't waste any time listening to that guy He's a fucking clown. He is a clown, but I will say I was I was actually pleasantly surprised because I don't know if he's just trying to save his own ass or not, but in a lot of the three hours of the conversation, he was kind of saying a longer firm version of what you're talking about.

What men should be that, you know, they should be strong, they should be capable, they should be able to provide for their family. So I'm like, there is some, some positives to his message. And it's like, That entire message of what you just laid out is essentially just been suppressed. Uh, yeah you I mean, so why though, right?

So um anytime You see there's a couple of really good indicators of when you're under Attack and what I guess some people call it fifth gen warfare now or whatever But I don't you don't need to get into the conspiratorial shit too much because it all is very obvious Yeah, if somebody is attacking your supply lines, then you're or with them, right?

That's how that works That's how we got into world war ii. For example, we were sending Supplies to England and German U boats kept sinking them. And then obviously Pearl Harbor after that, um, if somebody is attacking the institutions internally in your country that you use to defend yourself. Um, then you're in war.

That's why we are technically at war with Russia and have been for a very long time, but they're a paper tiger. Militarily speaking, they're good at what they're doing information operations, fucking with our society and stuff like that. And then targeted assassination. They're good at that, but conducting war.

I mean, you're seeing it. Ukraine's not even a second world country. They're a joke and they can't even take fucking Ukraine You kidding me and we're supposed to be afraid of these people like get the fuck out of here, man But they have been very effective at uh pumping cultural marxism into the united states So when you see like the institutions that that not just protect us from existential threats, but that progress society like education and uh, uh and and our elections and things like that Um, they've been pretty effective at disrupting that stuff.

So you you can you should really keep your eye out for things like that And one of the primary things they've done Is made it Cool to be a slutty girl. Yeah, and it's this isn't just the russian. Sometimes it's just uh, Societal decay, right? But this idea that you should be uh that there's somehow some kind of Nobility via independence for a woman to be promiscuous and then, uh, have a career of her own and not have to depend on a man like I get it, man, men have become unreliable.

And a lot of that is the fault of men. Yes. Uh, and, and a lot of them have. Both profited off prop. I'm sorry profited both financially and Sexually off of some of this stuff right without you know It's like everybody came to the party and nobody wants to clean up Everybody enjoyed the the free range puss that was going on out there, but they were like, oh good now I can only marry a single mom at this point.

Yeah And they bitch about that. So

This, this narrative was pushed this women's liberation, um, which is, you know, if you want to do all that stuff, fine. I think we should be egalitarian enough as a society that nobody would stand in the way of somebody doing what the fuck they want to do, certainly. But I'm not going to pretend like it isn't a biological fact that most men are going to be happiest when they're in a leadership role.

Particularly in a family with children and most women are going to be in an empathetic nurturing and support role with To their spouse or their children or whatever it is, right and it doesn't always have to look like that Sometimes it's adopted kids. Sometimes it's like your nieces nephews But that's where you will find the your most fulfillment because that's your biological urge, right?

Yes, that's what you want Um, and the fact that, that it's been cast as somehow just basic biology has been cast as bigoted or sexist or whatever the fuck, um, is, that's, that's bananas, right? Like that's, that's the apex of modern Western stupidity. We live in the dumbest period in all of human history by a wide margin because we have every piece of data you could ever want and we're still doing dumb shit like this.

I mean, what the fuck? Yeah. I mean, we have a watch that will tell you the exact amount of calories to burn, the foods to eat, and we still are 70% overweight or obese. Yeah. 38% of Americans are either diabetic or in pre diabetes. Yeah. 38%. Yeah. I mean, that's fucking weird. And 80% of those pre diabetic people don't even know that they're pre diabetic too.

Or what pre diabetes is. No. They have no idea. Oh my god. It's insane. One of the things I wanted to ask you just reminded me of this I feel like a lot of people will group you and andy forsella together because you guys were so outspoken in the midst of the pandemic And i'm actually just curious like your ability to be outspoken.

Do you think that that's something that's innate to you? Is that something that you've trained and learned over time? I'm just kind of curious about that I don't know the answer to that. I don't give a shit what people think Yeah, I mean I care If i'm wrong, I want to be right Yeah, not because of pride of authorship or anything like that.

I just don't, I, what, what utility is there in being wrong and just lying to yourself about it? That doesn't seem like a great idea. Um, you know, it, it's, it's like you're falling from an airplane and you're like, yeah, it'll work out. Yeah. I'm just going to see what happens. Like now you, uh, I, I think it is like,

there is a gap in leadership. You know what I mean? Um, That that's happened as a result of the things we're talking about now, you know the idea of like public service is now It's kind of seen as um I don't know those institutions are just constantly under attack or their concerns and plight are eschewed by society Like how how much?

How much uproar and modern in society right now is there about the way that, you know, veterans are being treated people will say little quips from time to time. Like I support the troops. Okay, how exactly are you supporting the troops? You know what I mean? Yeah. Or, you know, police and, uh, I don't think firefighters really take any heat for the most part.

No pun intended there because they're just, you know, there's no enforcement mechanism there. Mhm. Firefighters and EMTs seem to get a pretty good rap, but police don't and it's some a lot of it's their own fault You know over the past couple years anybody that enforced any of these lockdown or kovat measures like that You can back the blue right the fuck out of my house because I'm not supporting that shit at all Your job is not to Uh, you, you don't have a job in those service roles where you are, um,

you're, I don't think you're responsible to the mayor, right? Yeah. Or the city council. You're, it says protect and serve on the side of these vehicles, protect and serve whom exactly? The public. Yeah. And the constitution, the end. Right. Like if you're, I don't know how many, I actually know a lot of police, uh, who have bucked that authority when it's unconstitutional, but most of them are unemployed now.

You know what I mean? Um, but anyways, that's, that's a whole other tangent, but yeah, there's, there's been a concerted effort to attack the institutions that protect us. Right. Yeah. Over the past several decades, whether it's police or in the military or now it's finally turned over the past 15 years or so just to masculinity itself.

Yeah. Like this, this, The phrase toxic masculinity, it just, all of human civilization was built because of toxic masculinity, because we're trying to get laid and impress girls, so we build all this shit. I mean, that's literally what the fuck it is. So, you know, that isn't to say that any unbridled aggression is, is, you know, proper or polite, but it is what it is, right?

So, you know, again, it's this is odd fallacy. This is the way it is. So what, what are our options here? Our option is to. Train and develop and educate young men on how to be the best possible asset to society with their Natural inclination towards aggression as possible. You know what I mean? Because the aggression doesn't always manifest itself And in combat or in police or anything like that, sometimes it's just being hyper focused on being the best business owner you can be or protecting your family or whatever, right?

There's many ways to do this and it's not always about your profession either. I mean, I expect if someone's in trouble around you, I expect you to fucking help them. Yeah. You know what I mean? 100%. And if you don't, then you're a piece of shit. Yeah. That's the end of that fucking conversation. And we, it's.

I understand some of these psychological phenomenon, like the bystander effects, stuff like that. But it, it's one of the principles of my show citizen, no matter where I am, I'll be a leader. Yeah. Right. And that's what I expect out of men. I expect you to be a fucking leader. And if, if that's not what you're willing to do, then don't even talk to me.

Yeah. Because you have, you hold no value as a human being. You're, you're as a, as a male human being. All of your value is wrapped up in how you were able to provide for and protect the people around you. That's it. That's your whole fucking job, right? And if you can't do those things, then you hold no value to me.

A hundred percent. It's tough to even, uh, I'm just, I'm, I'm just like trying to engage with everything that you're saying. Um, when you talk about this mindset of. being the best possible asset that it can be to society. Is that something the military instilled in you? Is it something you developed after the military?

Was it before the military? When did you start to come away to a lot of that? Maybe it was just intuitive. I don't know. Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, I had a, uh, tumultuous childhood, I guess. So I, I, I became self reliant pretty early on. Um, but you know how it is. You, you become. Self reliant that's that's kind of a canard.

It's not real like we need each other desperately to survive. That's why we you know started Building our camps close to each other. That's why we built them bigger and bigger over time. That's why we built Methods of transportation so we could, you know, move around but still stay close and that's that's been the point of all this So, you know, it is easy and I and I definitely suffered from this to become walled off and nihilistic towards Socialization, I think that's a fucking mistake, but it's hard to and we're seeing it with young men, especially They've it's a it's they become socially black pilled not just politically.

It's like well, I'm not this this is all the way that Societal dynamics were male female relationships. All this stuff is just so fucking stupid now, but I'm just gonna tune out of this process Yeah, I mean and you have jackasses like Nick Fuentes Who's just an absolute cunt? Was running his suck hole.

Yes. I sometime this past week about how Um, about celibacy and how you should, uh, uh, I don't know. There's some stupid fucking rant like, Oh, this is all dumb. So you shouldn't even do it. You know what I mean? Like, go out and build stuff. Like, what are you, fucking stupid? You know, the whole reason that people put spoilers on their Honda so they can get fucking laid.

It's not because it looks cool, because it doesn't. Uh, but even when it does, it's only been about that one thing, right? So, um, yeah, I think, uh, I think at some point, Once I started, I, I left the military in late 2010 and I worked in private security for a while, mostly doing like risk management. Mm-hmm.

stuff on the academic side. And then the operational side, mostly bodyguard work. Um, and then I took, when, when I was finishing my master's degree, I, I worked at home insecurity for about a year, um, and immigration, doing intelligence work, and just saw how buttfuck that entire organization was. Um, it, and it's, It clicked because you know, in the military, you're at the pretty low end of things and then you get into an organization like that where you're, you know, dealing with national intelligence and stuff.

You're like, man, this is, this is all just a big fucking joke, right? Is it, we're not actually doing anything here. So there is this tendency and I understand it to lose faith in the institutions, you know what I mean? But the solution to losing faith in the institution for a man is to rebuild the institution.

That's your job, right? Like if you let's say you and your family are out It's 1850 and you're moving west and you happen upon the land that you bought but the house is burned down What do you do to sleep outside for the rest of life? No, you fucking build a new house. Yeah, you know what I mean? That's your job, and it's your job as an American to look around you at the things that are fucked up and fix them.

Not bitch and moan about it. Fuckin fix it, dude. And look, I know that there's an informational barrier to entry. People don't know what to do right now. And there's a bit of a stranglehold as well. Um, like you're everything, everything that you own can be leveraged against you, um, particularly with a fiat currency, right?

Yeah. Like if you look at the, the rates of bankruptcy, um, and then the escalation of the, the pay gap, not male, female, but between CEO and worker. And if you look at, uh, uh, uh, uh, mortgage defaults. And obviously inflation, but from 1971 forward when we left the gold standard and the fiat currency, given the government the ability just to print money whenever they decide to do it, I don't know why anybody thought that was going to work out.

I mean, we've tried this shit before, right? Like so many, so many currencies have gone tits up because of this stuff. You would think we would have learned our lesson, but, you know, now I think it gives the, you know, it certainly gives the government more flexibility, but it's, you're in a death spiral at that point, like it's only a matter of time before that all collapses.

Yeah. Um, so I, again, I said all that to say, I understand why people feel so negatively towards all this stuff. I understand why you feel like. Why would I go? Why would I invest my time and resources back into this institution that's not and there's some you know That's a reasonable thing to say

You have to do it locally. Mm hmm, right like people ask me How do we get out of these issues that we've caused for ourselves? crippling debt and all the stuff and just you know, the the growing police and surveillance state in the u. s. And the weaponization of Three letter agencies and shit like that's like there's only one way to do it as I mentioned before The, the Tinkerbell thing, the only way that you, that we can walk back this weird bullshit that's happened is by winning local elections, right?

And starting the process of nullification. Now nullification is like. If you want modern examples of this, Massachusetts and California with weed and gay marriage, right? It is told the federal government we're gonna do what we want. And if you got a problem come fucking stop us Well, they're not going to right because it's not how it works.

The federal government's power is It only exists if you all believe it exists. You know what I mean? That's the only way so Winning local elections and then telling the county or the state like no, we're not paying into that We're not we're not gonna just send you money blindly. You send us a bill We'll look through it and if it's the line Adams make sense, then we'll send you money stuff like that But you're not entitled to my fucking money Yeah, because I was born and on the same continent that you are you fucking kidding me?

Like what makes you think you're entitled to my shit to 40% of my shit Yeah, just because because oh, we need money for this. We need money for this and we don't need money for this You do bitch, right? So get the fuck out of here. Um, but the only way to stop it again is to stop the pipeline it's it's and one of the most one of the most effective things that the population can do to Slow down or even cease Government intrusion of the lives is just collectively saying no.

Yeah, remember that got the misinformation governance board. Yeah I don't think so Year and a half ago or so The Department of Homeland Security was gonna stand up a new agency inside of it called the governance or the misinformation governance board Which is thought police right? It was a quote unquote misinformation expert from some fucking shitty Uh, newspaper or something, I think, um, and their job was to, like, literally their job was to do all the stuff that Matt Taibbi and, and, uh, Schellenberger and those guys exposed that the FBI, the CIA, the intelligence community in general were telling Facebook and all these social media companies to delete things, even though they were true.

Yeah. Right. That they wanted to make it an agency. That was primarily responsible for that and everybody's like no, we're not doing that. Fuck you and it went away in about three weeks Yeah, that's how long it took right? All it took was three weeks of people saying no not doing that to make shit go away But you know, we don't We're so distracted with these binary political Debates that have no real bearing on most people's lives Yeah, you know what I mean?

And it's this is another iron law of people if somebody is trying to do To divide you as a population. They are trying to conquer you. That's where the phrase comes from. Yeah, so, you know again You got to keep a keen eye out for that stuff. Mm hmm Do you think that um your way to not be overly nihilistic is focused on the localism and even the ultimate form of that of Just taking control of yourself.

Well, yeah, I mean so we're men especially but I think it's true women as well Um, we define our identity by purpose. You know what I mean? Uh, and you can see it. Like the, the rates of, uh, depression and suicide amongst people who feel purpose driven are way lower. I mean, it's not, it's, it's like 70, 80% lower.

And the reason is that's, again, it's the same thing that I was talking about before. This is our biological imperative to be useful, right? And when you don't feel useful, you don't feel great. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's like. That, that's the big lie that has been told to this latest generation and a half or so that you deserve things.

You don't deserve shit, dude. You deserve what you fucking work for. And sometimes that's not even going to happen. You know what I mean? So, yeah, for me, it's, it is, you have all the power in the world in a lot of ways, you know what I mean? Um, you can't control circumstance, you can't control like, I mean, to some degree I guess you can control illness and death and stuff like that, but stuff happens, man.

Yeah. Um, you know, and that's, I guess that's, that produces a lot of anxiety for a lot of people. But the vast majority of your life you have a lot of control over and it's, this is the most important lesson. You cannot control the outcome of things, right? You just can't. You can control your attitude and your effort and nothing further.

Um, but you know, over a long enough time period, attitude and effort will get you where you want to go. Yeah. Almost always. Yeah. Um. Absolutely. So that's, I just, I know these things to be true. So when I see, you know, potentially nihilism stimulating events or something like that, it just doesn't faze me anymore.

Yeah. You talked about, um, the ability to work hard is just fundamental to becoming useful. And I'm just curious for you, cause people probably see you now, Citizen's Podcast, Drinking Bros, Hard AF, Black Rifle, be like, fuck, I would kill to be in that guy's shoes. I'm just curious, like how much work actually went in behind the scenes to build everything that you have now?

Yeah, I mean, what... So work sweat equity as we call it certainly a lot of it And part of sweat equity means that you're not get a paycheck for a while. Yeah I've gone I've had to save money and then go a year without getting paid anything that sucks But you know and we're you know My business partner and I are probably half a bill each end on the booze company at some point But it is what it is.

I mean, yeah, and the the other part that stuff is just business This is how startups work anybody that's started a business or owned a business Um, they understand the mechanics of that. The, the shows though, it's like, sometimes we will just wing it, but most of the time it's like three hours off screen for every hour on screen, you know what I mean?

And I record, let's see,

probably 16 hours a week of shows, something like that. So it gets tedious sometimes. Um, just. Cause I don't really, I don't know. A lot of stuff that we discuss I don't really give a shit about. Yeah. But people care about it. So we just, it's entertainment. You know? Um, but I try to keep it informative and stuff.

So part of it is like, and this is a good rule of thumb for business too. Like you should like your own product. If you wouldn't consume your own product there's a good chance that other people aren't going to consume it either. Yeah. Um, so I try to keep it interesting for myself which is nice. And I do, a lot of the work that I do now for the show I was doing anyways.

Not, not in the same volume, obviously, but I do like understanding things and being informed and shit, but it is fucking tedious, you know. Um, and maybe it'll work out in the end, and maybe it won't. Maybe I go broke. I don't fucking know. Anything can happen, right? Maybe our currency collapses tomorrow. What the fuck am I gonna do?

I'll just go out in the woods and... Shoot deer, I guess. At least you're in the game though. Yeah. Yeah. No, I like it. Yeah, you should you should definitely be Um, don't ever quit That's fucking like if I just don't that that instinct isn't it isn't in me I I don't know what drives people to that to be honest, but yeah, it's we we definitely We define ourselves our self worth ultimately comes from our value as perceived by other people, right?

Which kind of sucks like you should love yourself first like okay, cool. That's There was a guy that did that, his name was Narcissus, and he stared into a fucking mirror so long he turned into tulips or some shit. Like there's a, there's a, that's, that story is very old, and the point of it is, it's not about you, right?

I've got a fucking picture, not a picture, I have a frame in my house, and it just says it's not about you. I look at it every day, um, because I think it's the most important message. Like everything, every meaningful thing you do in your life will be in the service of other people. And if you don't understand that right now, and stop thinking about your fucking self and your feelings and how you, Feel about things and how hard your fucking life is.

You're a one percenter, by the way. If you can hear the sound of my voice, you are the top one percent earners on earth. I don't know that people know that people don't know that like you most people on earth live on less than a dollar a day The vast majority of people like 65% So, you know, you've got it pretty good no matter how bad it gets but even if you didn't it's not about you like you're And this is the mistake we've made with the veteran community, especially, but with young men in general, um, you know, we have this issue with veteran suicide and post traumatic stress.

And for the very, for the majority of the time, we've been treating it and trying to deal with this situation. It's been like, Oh, it's okay, buddy. You'll be okay. Or whatever therapy or whatever. But it comes, it is a fundamental misunderstanding about what motivates men biologically And how to repair them once that deviates, right?

And the way you repair them is to give them a job, give them purpose again. That, that is what heals the man, right? Uh, uh, it's like when you have knee surgery and you have to do range of motion exercises, like it might make, it seems intuitive just to leave it and let it heal on its own, but that's not how it fucking works.

You have to move that thing around or it won't heal properly again. And you know, when you get, when you take somebody that's a type A. That has been productive to the level of aggression, right? I'm talking about soldiers, people that go and get in gunfights and shit. And then you bring them home and just sit them there with no purpose at all.

They have all the aggression. They have no purpose, nowhere for it to outlet. And that's, that's rage, right? And eventually, you know, because those people are self sacrificed minded, they will inevitably turn their rage inward on themselves. And that is what creates depression, right? Rage turns inward. I think that's, uh...

Somebody said that once. Um, and so it's no, no surprise that we've ended up where we are, you know what I mean? The same thing with the the insane shit the government has said about nutrition over the years. Yeah, we've done the same thing with mental health in this country. Everybody talks about mental health now.

It's a huge fucking thing. Uh, and, and one of the, one of the biggest, or one of the things I hear most is like somebody taking a mental health day or a mental health break. Like fuck you dude. Get off of your phone. Are you kidding me? You're taking a mental health. What the fuck does that even mean? You're going to say I want to play video games and drink fucking Gatorade or some shit like you're a six year old with the flu again.

Fuck you get off your ass and do something man Like if you want it's and it's the same thing like if you're if you're feeling shitty Physically and you start to work out more you will feel better. Yeah, you won't you won't like it like it'll suck But you will feel better. Yeah. So what the fuck are you doing?

You know, these are iron laws These are this is how the universe works, but we have diluted ourselves Into this ought to fallacy like we things it shouldn't be like that. I shouldn't have to do all this Well, fuck you, you know what I mean? Yeah, like that's just the way it is, dude I should be able to dunk Yeah, but I can't because I'm white, you know, it's just not gonna happen for me.

So Yeah, it's persisting. Oh, one of my favorite quotes is from Carl Sagan He was a physicist back in the day did the Cosmo series if you're familiar with that He said, uh, for me, it's far better to accept the universe as it is, rather than persist in delusion, regardless of how satisfying the delusion is, you know what I mean?

I think that's something that we really need. Like, people didn't think like this back in the day. We had dreamers, sure. People left their fuckin law practices in Boston in the fuckin Eight or, uh, middle 18 hundreds or the early 18 hundreds to go west. Yeah. To try to dig gold outta the ground and shit like that.

It happens, certainly, and, you know, ambition is a good thing. It keeps us moving in the right direction, but we, we are at the point now where it's just like, oh man, I just gonna create a social media account and hopefully I'll get rich. It's like, no, that's like it. That's not a thing, man. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Um, so that

we, we have the same wants and needs, but our level of effort and understanding of what it takes to get to those things, there's a, there's a huge gap in understanding between those. And I think that's the thing, that's the thing that could be most easily repaired, right? It's it's classical conditioning.

It's like rewarding a dog with a piece of kibble every time they obey your command You can do that to yourself Yeah, you know what I mean reward yourself when you do the right thing and and punish yourself when you don't i'm not talking about Corporal mortification or like wrapping a chalice around your leg or any crazy shit like that i'm talking about Make it a point.

There's a couple of things that I ask people to do one is Um, every day ask yourself, like try, try to at least once a day, ask someone else if they need your help, whether it's somebody in your life or stranger or something like that. Right. If you, this is, this is especially true for men, but I recommend it for everybody.

Like do you need my help? It's a really easy thing to ask somebody. And usually their first answer is going to be like, no, I'm good. And then they'll pause for a few minutes and be like, actually blah, blah, blah. And they'll tell you something you can do. Um, and. I think that's, it's a good way to be on the lookout, right?

Like it's your job. It is your job as a human being, but certainly as a man to, to be capable and willing to do stuff like that. Like there's a, there's a freight, there's a saying in Texas, actually, um, a woman should know how to change a tire, but she should never have to. Yeah. Right. Love that. Yeah. It's like, and this isn't to say that women can't change fucking tires or anything, but it's like that, that's, that's my job.

Go do your job. Yes. Right. Like fucking you're, you're a, you're a fullback in life. Sometimes you're not always the quarterback or the running back or the receiver. Sometimes you're a fucking fullback. Get in there and block and do your job and it doesn't matter what the outcome is. You just do the right thing.

But it's difficult, right? I mean, life is tough. I'm not, everybody's, everybody falls down sometimes people fuck up, but you know, you can never accept that because that's, that's where the, that's the poison is on the end. If there's gold at the end of the rainbow, at the end of letting yourself off the hook is failure.

You know what I mean? And that's unacceptable because failure, it doesn't, isn't. Your failure. It's all of our failure. Yeah. I mean, yeah, outside of, um, proactively asking people for help. Do you have any other non negotiables that you go through throughout the, throughout your day? Uh, well, yeah. So part of that principle about leadership, um, the, the full phrase is, uh, no matter where I am, I'll be a leader and leaders eat last, right?

Like you make sure that the herd is taken care of first before you take yours. Um, whether it's your children, your wife, family, whomever, whether it's your employees at work or if, you know, people don't, the vast majority of people who are leaders are not in a, in an official leadership position, right?

Cause there's, that's a finite amount of positions that exist. Um, and I'm talking about the workplace now, obviously people that have families there, there's leadership roles there, but just being, and then just in broader society, you may not be an elected official or a deacon at your church or whatever the fuck, just by being aware.

What it takes to be successful as a society, which is to, uh, you know, everybody to carry their weight and then some sometimes, right? Um, and then in the proper way with the right kind of attitude, just being aware of that makes you a leader by default because a lot of people don't think that way. But it takes, you know, a critical mass of people thinking the right stuff and behaving that way and believing in that shit.

Um, GK Chesterton said that men didn't love Rome because she was great. She was great because the men loved her. Right. So it's like, I see a lot of people, I see a lot of patriotism and platitudes, you know, I see a lot of flag waving. But what specifically did you do to make this country better? Right? Like, show me, show me the action verb associated with the love you have for this country.

What exactly did you do? What's the physical manifestation of your love for this country, your relationship? It's obvious. It's like, The love language stuff, you take care of your wife, uh, maybe it's sexually, whatever. There's a, but there's a physical manifestation of that love you have for somebody. What is your, what is the physical manifestation of your love for this country?

And if you don't, if you can't easily answer that question, then you've got a fucking problem. Yeah. Like you should really do some thinking about that. Mm hmm. So that's something that I think about a lot as well. Is the Citizen Podcast in some ways your physical manifestation of what you can do for the country?

To some degree, yeah. I mean, I try to, you know, just being a mouthpiece in general. Um, cause I'm kind of a dick, you know, I like to say crazy shit cause I, it's, I've got a very infantryman humor. Uh, very dark and stuff. But, um, you know, I do try to be as outspoken as possible about stuff that I think really matters.

You know what I mean? Like being a good human being, being a good man, and ignoring the noise, and doing the right thing, and then eating properly. Um, the, I would say... Probably 70, 80% of people over 28 years old need to be on TRT, for example, like, uh, the, the average 21 year old today has 40% less testosterone and their counterpart in 2001.

So within a single generation, we've lost 40% of our aggregate testosterone. That's not a good thing. Heavy metals, plastics. Hormones and food, whatever caused it doesn't really matter. I mean, those things do cause it, but, um, it doesn't really matter. You can imagine what it would be like to persist through your entire life with a severe hormone imbalance.

And the vast majority of young men right now are dealing with that. I mean, not, I'm not talking about a lot of people are kind of fucked up. People are like, people have, people in their late 20s whose testosterone level should be somewhere in the 700s. Are in the one fifties one sixties right now like that is untenable.

That's not gonna work dude. Like it's it's not how we this is not the process of evolution. We poison ourselves. Yeah, you know what I mean? Um, and that needs to be fixed. I tell people that all the time. I get a lot of One of the other ways that I like to, to serve is by helping people that have been through similar shit that I have because I've had, I've been fortunate enough to make it through all that stuff.

Um, and if somebody, if somebody reaches out to me talking about depression and therapy and shit like that, I'm like, yeah, that's good, but you can't, there's no software solution to a hardware problem. If your hardware is fucked up. One stop eating bullshit. I don't want to hear your fucking excuses, and I'm that one thing I am I talk a lot of shit about fat people a lot Mostly Lizzo, but anybody that really falls into it, and you know there's plenty of fat people that listen to me You know on my show and stuff Um, but I like, I'm not going to fucking coddle you do the right thing.

You know what you need to do to get better. Yeah. And you're not doing it. And I feel like if I can shame you enough into it, a couple of people fucking flip, then good, good for all of us. Um, but yeah, it's like, we know, you know, exactly what you need to do. Dude, sometimes you need that good friend to just call you a fat fuck so you can actually get your shit together.

Dude, when I was, uh, when I was graduating college, I played college baseball, and uh, you know, never got super overweight, but like, my last year I was just drinking all the time, eating like shit, and um, there was a picture of me on the 4th of July, and I'm like, you know, Wide waisted white guy genetics, so I just hold all this fat right here And I look like a fat piece of shit and my buddy was like dude You actually look terrible Yeah And it pissed me off so much that that that's what started me to start doing like iron man's and marathons and shit like that But now that I look back i'm like dude that guy gave you did you the greatest favor?

He gave you the kick in the ass that you needed. You're not doing anybody any favors by lying to them. That's for sure 100% So yeah when people reach out to me about stuff i'm like Okay, you're looking for the pill, maybe, or you're looking for the fix. What, what have you done in your personal life to start this process?

Because if you haven't taken an implicit act, like a, a, a, if you haven't taken the first step, Um, actually, we had, uh, Michael Irwin on the show a couple years ago. We were talking to him about, Just ran to bullshit. But one of the stories he told his sister needed capital for something for a business she was starting.

And he was like, okay, how much you need? He's like 30, she's like 30 grand. And his head, he's, and this is him talking in his head. He's like 30, 000 bucks is nothing to me. Right? Yeah. It's not that much money to me. I'm, I'm fucking rich from being in the NFL. But I told her, no, like you and I, what he said was you go raise some of the money first and then I'll help you with the rest, whatever it is.

Um, and she called him back a couple weeks later and was like, yeah, I raised like 2000 bucks. He goes, good. Here's the rest. Yeah. Right. So what step have you taken first before you jump into this fucking bureaucratic cesspool of people trying to profit off of your recovery from whatever it is, have you actually done, have you made yourself resilient to all the poison that's going to be around you and your journey first?

Because if you haven't prepared first, it's like... One of your iron man things if you got five buddies who are gonna show up for this race and one of them shows up Clearly 20 pounds heavier. You're gonna like dude. What the fuck? Yes. You know what I mean? That was you have completely let us all down. Yeah, and that's the mindset you got to have you got to take those steps first So I tell these people like change your fucking diet and go get your hormones checked Yeah first right and that you it has the added benefit of giving that person a mission now Right which for a lot of dudes Um, if they're having suicidal thoughts or ideation or anything like that, that will sustain them for some amount of time.

Yeah. Now they've got something they can, like, physical in their hand that they can actually go to, and that's what we all want, right? Yeah. That's what we want, both the purpose and we want control over our own lives. And when you don't have those two things, it fucking caves in pretty quickly, but I've had quite a bit of success for that, so.

That's the message that I have for any young dude that feels lost in this shit. Like go find somebody, well first make sure that your hardware is good. I'm not talking about your dick, but probably your dick too. That's a good indicator if your shit's working or not. Yeah, um, but get your shit checked.

Make sure you're eating good food. That's the first step. And then the second step is obviously you just go find people that need help. Yeah. And sometimes you build a business around helping people, whatever it is, right? I mean, that's you, that's what a business is. Society has a need, you provide that need and you get paid for it.

That's a fucking business, right? Yeah. That's, that's, that's what it is. And it's, it mirrors just your contributions to the society in general. It's not all capital. It's, it's not all work or monetary or whatever, but it's the same attitude, right? It's I'm going to fix this fucking problem. And, you know, it makes you feel powerful in the way that you're supposed to not ego, but like There's nothing I've ever done for myself that made me feel better than helping other people.

I don't think that's even possible. Yeah. Unless there's something pathologically wrong with you. 100%. I really hope that, um, for the people that are listening to this show, they're latching on to what you're saying about hormones because... For whatever reason we think about T and hormone levels in this biohacking way of like maybe like a metric of like 700 Versus like no you actually getting your testosterone is the gateway to becoming the man that you're talking about, too We had on this guy.

He'd actually be a good guest for your shows names. Dr. JC He's the co founder of this men's hormone company called blokes. So it's all telemedicine They send a doctor to your house get your blood drawn. They send you the results a day later He jumps on a call with you. I'll work with you on diet lifestyle TRT peptides And he said that the people that thank him the most aren't actually the men themselves.

It's actually their wives. Because their men become different husbands just by getting their fucking health in check. Yeah, it's funny. A lot of the referrals that we get are from the wives, not from the husband. Um, which is pretty interesting, but that's, they're the ones that see it, right? Yeah, like you're you're the first responder to your spouse's needs I guess or to the not just your spouse But any of the people around you?

Yeah, um, you know, we're especially Military and first responder people we're so aware of everything going on around us all the time But the stuff that's right there in front of us can be difficult. It's a very forest for the trees kind of situation Um, that hyper awareness people see it as like you, so you get in gunfights or whatever, have some traumatic experience and now you're hyper aware.

That's a tool like anything else. Like I had to run for my life for a few years now. I'm a really good runner. Yeah. So I'm going to use that to fucking be better and help people. Right. I'm going to use my hyper awareness to help people. I'm going to be very hyper aware of the fucking mood of those around me and see how I can, might be able to improve that.

That's just a very easy example of how. You know, there, there are, your experiences are really fucking important. Uh, it, it helps shape who you are, but it can help, it can also build a tomb for you, right? I mean, if you let it. Um, so what I tell people is if you can turn your pain and suffering into empathy for other people, you can save your life and theirs.

And that is the, that, that's the whole point of human civilization. Yeah, it is. It is a giant experiment. Where we take lessons and turn it into resilience, right? And then try to pass as much of that on to the next generation as possible. Um, and into the future as well. But, you know, we've. I wonder where we are with all that stuff now, because it used to be in the 1950s, you're a, you're a 17, 18, 19 year old dude, right?

In the 1950s, your life looks like this. I'm going to find a wife and have some kids. I'm going to get a job and try to make sure that my kids have it easier than I did or better. Yeah, easier is not the right word. But I wonder from our perspective now, because I don't think people think that way anymore.

I don't think young people think that way. I don't think our generation thought that way either. Frankly, I think because how could we, how could it have gotten better? Yeah. Like what, what would we have done as like, we were mostly latchkey kids, right? So we grew up middle class homes. They're okay. Walked school.

Maybe, uh, things are pretty good. The economy was, has been pretty stable since our, since the early 1980s for the most part, except for a few blips here and there. Um, and. More people than ever go to college. So it's like what exactly was the goal for improvement for our generation? You know what I mean?

Yeah, how old are you 42 42 and you're 29 29? Yeah, so he probably even more so for your age group Your parents who are probably Gen Xers. Mm hmm. Probably went to college. Yeah, right So what how how do you how do they make sure that your life is better than their somehow? Well, it's because we used to say easier.

Yeah, I want my kids to have it easier than I had Yeah, but it's not like that anymore, right when we haven't we had we failed To upgrade our thinking in this regard. Like how do we make things better than for our kids and where for us? Because, and I think it's obvious, we became really reliant on whatever.

Organizations and the government and institutions and stuff like that. And we have lost our self reliance. And when, as we lost our self reliance, We also lost our ability to think critically, right? That muscle inside of our brain became very, very dull. And now people are very gullible. They'll believe your stupid shit.

Or, you know, a lot of people are just tuned out. As long as they have hot pockets and iPads, they don't give a shit what's going on around them. You know what I mean? Dude, I mean, everything you're saying is spot on. Like, do you know how many friends that I have that are highly educated, crippled with debt and don't own a house, living at home with their parents still?

Working a job that they hate I mean even me do when I quit my corporate job and moved to Austin to do this Show people were like, what the fuck are you? What are you doing? You're out of your mind And I think it perfectly just enforces what you're talking about It's like you have to you have to just like break yourself out of the matrix in some ways sure Yeah, I mean, you know and look not everybody's gonna be an outlier that that would be kind of antithetical to the definition of outlier Yeah, most people will be average and ordinary that nothing wrong with that What's wrong is that, you know, in the same way that there's an Overton window for politics, if you're familiar with that phrase, which is to say the the generally accepted left and right limits of Western politics, it's the Overton window.

There is also that for society, like what do we exactly expect out of people? And it matters. It matters what you expect. You know, I mean if you're okay With bums littering the street, intense and human shit being everywhere. And, and, uh, you know, whatever else, then that's, what's going to happen. And it's going to get progressively worse as time goes on.

Um, you know, uh, Machiavelli said, if you're kind, when you're supposed to be cruel, you will be forced to be cruel. And you're supposed to be kind to think of it like. Yeah, it sucks that we have to turn people away from certain countries at our border. Yeah, because their country's fucked, right? But we're not doing them any favors.

And we're not doing ourselves any favors either. And there, there will come a time where, uh, like you're seeing in New York this week, actually at the Roosevelt hotel, there's a fucking line half a mile long out of the Roosevelt hotel. In New York, what the fuck of, of just immigrants who got, you know, brought here and then shipped around the country and now they're fucked.

They're just standing outside waiting just to get indoors somewhere. We have not done any of these folks, uh, any favors by doing this. Um, it's like, there's rules for a reason, you know what I mean? And we've seen it happen before. I mean, as the more, the more porous our border becomes, there's a direct correlation between crime in northern Mexico, especially, but, but generally speaking throughout, uh, Central America, there's a, there's an exponential rise in crime when our border is more open, typically.

And it's for, for a variety of reasons, but, um, you know, it's like a kid, you, you don't want to yell at him. So you let him put a fucking knife in an electrical socket and it was electrocuted. You know what I mean? Like you have to be cruel and it's time to, and you know, sometimes like while you're going to bed, you're not, you're not, uh, getting dessert for dinner tonight.

Sometimes it's very simple. Sometimes it's like, well, you're not doing this thing you want it to do. This summer because you've been a cunt all year, you know what I mean, or you failed all your class or whatever it is, right? Like you have there there has to be an enforcement mechanism. That's how we work as human beings and if you don't If you don't have that standard in place, then you get, you know, this, which is like people can't even agree on what reality is anymore.

It seems like you're like almost ethos is there are just these fundamental laws that are just facts of nature. They're not up for dispute, yet we're disputing a lot of the shit. That's right. Yeah. And people make the mistake of thinking that. I'm a fundamentalist for thinking that or that it implies I feel like some organization or entity or whatever has the right to force somebody to do, you know, you don't ever, the government doesn't have the right to force you to do shit, uh, nor, nor should we allow them to do that and no person should be allowed to force you to do anything either.

You live your life, do what you want to fucking do. But there are laws in this universe, right? That is how it works. And, and, the, and, and, In physics, um, there aren't really exceptions, unless you're talking about the gravity versus quantum field and stuff like that. But just generally speaking, there aren't exceptions.

But in society, there are exceptions. There are people who are different. Right. And, uh, it's good because those different people, sometimes they're crazy, sometimes they're really fucking smart and they build shit that we need, or they think of things that we need them to be able to think of. So there's nothing wrong with that.

But if you look and, and Peterson's talking about this ad nauseum, so I'm not going to go too far into it, but in the more egalitarian Northern European countries where you might see in the United States. An 80 20 split between female and male nurses there. It's like 98 and two, right? Because people generally speaking, we've given all things being equal.

We'll select the thing that's most close to their fucking programming. If you want to call it that, right? Um, dudes are going to choose do jobs and women are going to choose women. John, it's just the way it is. Right. Um, so again, I do like to make that point though. Nothing I say, because I think it's a universal law.

means that I think that anybody should be, um, anybody should be prohibited from pursuing whatever lifestyle provided it's all above board. There's no, uh, no kids be involved or anything like that. But it's like, yeah, you should be able to do pretty much Whatever you want. Yeah thing and but there's a price to pay for that.

Yeah, there's a price to pay for civilized society as well And the price is vigilance. Yeah, but you have to be eternally vigilant because the lights will go out man eternally vigilant Mm hmm. I love it brother. I couldn't think of a better Bow to kind of wrap this conversation together, but Dan you're a dude that You know, I know Harry couldn't make it today, but you're a dude that we've both learned a lot from.

We've had, we've listened to your show for countless hours. So it's, it's cool just to be able to have gone from fan of your content to actually having you on the show and having a great conversation. Maybe round two we'll go vertical, potentially. Yeah, I don't care. We can walk around the city with loud mics on or something.

I'd be down with that. Dude, we could, uh, I've, I've kind of wanted to see bumfights again. Now that we're just okay with bums being everywhere, let's just, I mean, you know. May as well monetize it. That's the, that's the West, right? That's what we do here. I mean, our studio is the perfect location for that.

You can get a whole ring right outside the studio. Yeah. Uh, no, but I, thank you for having me on. It's been great. I like you guys. I like your, uh, protein powder with the organ meat in it. We'll throw some trend in there for you next time too. Some bull testicles, maybe. Yeah. No, I'm good. Primal blunt. You sure?

Yeah. I'm positive. Yeah. All right. Well, I appreciate you brother. Thank you. Cool.