Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques

“Over time, what works is truly showing up in a way where you actually care, you're actually trying to give value.” 
In a culture that rewards boldness and visibility, quieter voices can be easy to overlook. But Susan Cain, a former Wall Street lawyer, negotiation consultant, and bestselling author of Quiet and Bittersweet, argues that introverts bring powerful strengths to communication and leadership, from deep listening to thoughtful reflection. In this episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, Cain joins Matt Abrahams to explore how introverts can communicate with confidence without pretending to be extroverts. From overcoming speaking anxiety to embracing quiet leadership, she shares how sincerity and self-awareness can help us show up at our best.

Key Takeaways:
  • Introversion is a strength, not a limitation. Deep listening, thoughtful reflection, and strong one-on-one relationships can make quieter communicators highly effective leaders, even when those qualities are less visible.
  • Confidence doesn’t require changing who you are. By gradually building comfort in challenging situations and communicating with sincerity, you can become more confident while staying true to your natural communication style.

Activity:
  • Redesign a meeting. Choose one recurring meeting and change one element to make space for quieter voices. Try sending questions in advance, adding silent thinking time, or using Susan’s think-pair-share approach before opening the discussion to the group.
To listen to the extended Deep Thinks version of this episode, please visit FasterSmarter.io/premium.

Episode Reference Links:
Connect:

 Chapters:

  • (00:00) - Introduction
  • (01:01) - The Extrovert Ideal
  • (04:28) - Introversion vs. Anxiety
  • (06:16) - Building Confidence
  • (09:00) - Quiet Leadership
  • (10:11) - Introvert-Friendly Workplaces
  • (13:29) - Vulnerability and Trust
  • (16:40) - The Final Three Questions
  • (21:47) - Conclusion

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Creators and Guests

Host
Matt Abrahams
Lecturer Stanford University Graduate School of Business | Think Fast Talk Smart podcast host
Guest
Susan Cain
Author | Lecturer | Former Corporate Lawyer | Negotiation Consultant

What is Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques?

One of the most essential ingredients to success in business and life is effective communication.

Join Matt Abrahams, best-selling author and Strategic Communication lecturer at Stanford Graduate School of Business, as he interviews experts to provide actionable insights that help you communicate with clarity, confidence, and impact. From handling impromptu questions to crafting compelling messages, Matt explores practical strategies for real-world communication challenges.

Whether you’re navigating a high-stakes presentation, perfecting your email tone, or speaking off the cuff, Think Fast, Talk Smart equips you with the tools, techniques, and best practices to express yourself effectively in any situation. Enhance your communication skills to elevate your career and build stronger professional relationships.

Tune in every Tuesday for new episodes. Subscribe now to unlock your potential as a thoughtful, impactful communicator. Learn more and sign up for our eNewsletter at fastersmarter.io.

Introversion is an asset.

Quiet leaders bring tremendous value.

My name's Matt Abrahams, and I
teach Strategic Communication at

Stanford Graduate School of Business.

Welcome to Think Fast,
Talk Smart, the podcast.

Today, I really look forward
to speaking with Susan Cain.

Susan is a former Wall Street
lawyer and negotiation consultant.

She has spent years researching
how society's extrovert ideal

dramatically shapes our workplaces,
schools, and daily communication.

Susan is a New York Times bestselling
author of Quiet: The Power of

Introverts in a World That Can't
Stop Talking, and Bittersweet: How

Sorrow and Longing Make Us Whole.

She also writes The Quiet Life Substack.

Well, welcome, Susan.

I have looked forward to this
conversation for so long.

I really appreciate you being here
and the work that you've done.

Oh my gosh.

I appreciate your work so much.

There's so much overlap between
what we do, so I'm really glad

that we got to make this happen.

Well, thank you.

Uh, shall we get started?

Let's do.

All right.

I'd love to start with one of your
foundational principles, and that

is how people show up in terms of
extroversion and introversion, and

I'd love for you to talk about what
those are and also to walk us through

what you mean by the extrovert ideal.

Well, introversion and extroversion,
your listeners have probably heard

before of the idea of it being kind
of a question of where do you get

your energy, that introverts derive
energy from a more internal source, and

therefore like quieter settings, and
extroverts are kind of the opposite.

And there's so much we could say about
what these terms really mean, but I

think that's as good a definition as any.

And the way I think to really ask
yourself which one am I really, because

people lose sight of it, especially many
introverts do because there's so much

pressure from the time we're very small
to act extroverted that many introverts

come to believe they actually are
extroverted until they think about it.

So a couple of questions
you could ask yourself.

One would be, imagine that you have a
weekend or a vacation and you have no

social or professional obligations.

How do you spend that time?

Who do you spend it with?

How many people do you spend it with?

And what kinds of
relationships are those people?

Like, are you choosing to spend it with
the people you know really well, or do you

prefer the novelty of meeting new people?

So all these things, when you
really lift the obligations,

tell you a lot about who you are.

So the extroverted ideal is basically
the cultural norm, which by the

way, we see all over the world.

There are national and cultural
differences we can talk about, but

still, I haven't really yet encountered a
country where it isn't so, that there is

a norm for people to be bold, assertive,
talkative, and socially dominant.

And it is important to say that
especially in many Confucian societies,

in China, Korea, and so on, there are
great variations to this because in a

society where social life is organized
more around group harmony, there's

kind of like equally an imperative for
people not to stand out too much and not

to talk too much nonsense is a phrase
that I often hear from these cultures.

And so I often find in those cultures
you have a kind of double consciousness

of, on the one hand, wanting not to
talk too much, and on the other hand,

feeling that you're supposed to.

Whereas in the United States, I think
it's much more like, yeah, we all

feel that we're supposed to be uber
comfortable in social settings and so on.

And that can really
work against introverts.

And in fact, there are all kinds
of studies showing that, like

there's one from 2024 that showed
that introverts are often sort of

outperforming on actual productivity
measures, but then not doing as well

because they're seen as less visible.

So one of the things we should
actually really talk about is how

do you become more visible as an
introvert while still being yourself?

Absolutely.

There's a whole bunch of research
that says many of the characteristics

associated with people who are
more introverted actually are

critically essential to how we
work, how we relate, et cetera.

The ability to do deep thinking, to
have higher emotional intelligence about

what's going on, to be able to listen
deeply, those are all useful skills.

Before we get into the actions that
more introverted people can take, I,

given the work that I do around helping
people feel more comfortable and

confident in communication, to my mind,
there's a confusing of having anxiety

in speaking and being introverted,
and I'd love to hear your take on it.

I know what I say, and I'm happy to
share that with you, but I'd love

to hear your approach to it because
I believe fully it's possible to

be a very confident introvert and
to be a very anxious extrovert.

Absolutely.

I think what you're getting at
is the overlap and the confusion

between the difference between
shyness and introversion.

My work actually touches on both.

Both are relevant, but shyness is much
more what you were just describing.

It's a kind of excessive social anxiety
that tends to come out in situations

where people are judged, whether that's a
work meeting or a job interview or giving

a speech, or could be going on a date.

And many people will experience
shyness and social anxiety in

one of those settings, but not
in another, so it really varies.

And as you say, you could be an extrovert
who has that kind of anxiety, and you

could be an introvert who really doesn't.

Although in practice, there is
some overlap between the two,

but yeah, not necessarily.

Because introversion is much more about,
it's just a preference for being in

situations where you're less bombarded
by stimulation of all kinds, like, you

know, fewer people around, less sound,
fewer inputs, and that's where introverts

are at their best, at their most
creative, at their happiest, and so on.

So that ends up translating into the
social world because if you are an

introvert who prefers fewer inputs
coming at you, you're probably not

gonna be at your happiest when you're
in a big group meeting with multiple

social signals coming in all at once.

But that's not necessarily
shyness, it can be introversion.

Right.

And I really appreciate you
separating those two concepts.

And again, there are clearly relations,
but there are things that people who

are shy or people who have anxiety
around communication or social anxiety

can do that can help them, that may
or may not help address some of the

issues that they're experiencing
with introversion and extroversion.

I'm curious, what advice and guidance do
you give people to help them feel more

confident and calm in those circumstances?

Well, I mean, it depends on the
setting, and different settings are

challenging for different people.

But the core principle that I would say
applies to all these settings is the

kind of miracle of desensitization, which
is an idea well proven in psychology,

that if you have a fear of anything, it
could be a fear of snakes or elevators

or whatever, the best way to overcome
the fear is to expose yourself to it in

very small and very manageable doses.

So, for example, I had a fear,
like a really, really deep and

grave fear of public speaking.

I had it all my life.

And the way I overcame that was,
it was actually when my book Quiet

was coming out, and I didn't want
my fear to stand in the way of my

ability to communicate about the book.

So I went to this seminar for people with
public speaking anxiety that used these

principles of desensitization, so that
on the first day, all you had to do was

stand up, say your name, sit back down,
you were finished, you declare victory.

And then you'd come back the next
week, and the exercise would be

ever so slightly more challenging.

Uh, maybe you'd stand up and
answer a few questions about

yourself and then sit back down.

And what you're really doing is little
by little, you are rewiring your brain.

What happens when you have social
anxiety is your brain is basically

interpreting the social encounter as an
encounter with a saber-toothed tiger,

and you're reacting as if that were true.

And so you're basically teaching your
brain that it's not true, and that this

kind of social encounter is actually okay.

And if you do that enough
times, it actually really works.

Yeah, there are many, many techniques.

Desensitization is a very powerful one,
one that's been studied for a long time.

And the cool thing is you don't
actually have to do it in a situation

like you did, where you're in front
of a group of people doing it.

You can actually, there's a whole bunch
of research on visualization, where you

can do it just inside your own head,
almost like a flight simulator for pilots.

So for some people, it's just too much
to go to that initial meeting, so you

can do some of that desensitization
through visualization, and it helps.

I love that technique.

I want to switch to what we all can do,
but leaders play a role in this as well.

And you talk about quiet leaders.

Can you define what that is?

And then I want to ask about how we
can set up environments to support

people who are more introverted.

I think hopefully many of us can
think of quiet leaders we know.

They're often people who listen
a little bit more than they talk.

They maybe reflect a little more than
is typical before making a decision.

They might lead through asking a lot of
questions and understanding inputs from

their team and then going off to process
and then coming up with their decision.

They often are building those
deep one-on-one relationships.

So quiet leaders show up in these
forms, and there's actually quite

a bit of data showing that quiet
leaders deliver outcomes that are as

strong, and in some cases stronger,
than those of extroverted leaders.

So it's a real paradox because the
problem is that people who have

these characteristics tend not to
be cultivated as much for leadership

positions, but that leads to a
colossal waste of talent because

they actually deliver great results.

And I think there has to be a, a mindset
shift over what good leaders are.

As you were describing the characteristics
of an effective quiet leader, for

me, that was quite aspirational.

I would love in the leading I
do to exhibit some of those.

If you were a manager, leader in an
organization and you wanted to build

in practices, procedures that would
really allow introverts to feel more

engaged or more comfortable, what
might be some things you would do?

I could imagine, for example, having
updates where people might write

the updates rather than have to
stand up and share their updates.

I'm just curious if there's some very
specific tactics that you would put in

place if you could set up an environment
in the workplace for introverts.

Well, I think the first thing that I
would do is evaluate the evaluation

system to make sure that when hiring
and when promoting, when identifying

candidates for leadership within the
organization, to make sure you're

using the right criteria so that
you're actually getting in your net the

talented, committed introverts, because
I can tell you, you're probably not.

You're probably letting a lot of
talented people slide through if

the criteria look like coding for
sort of conventional visibility.

So that's the first thing.

I would give a lot of thought to how
do I structure meetings and making

sure that there are times within each
person's workday where they get to put

their head down and enter a state of
flow and know that they're not gonna

be called into a spontaneous meeting.

You know, and maybe that looks
like setting aside times in the

workday where it's head down time.

And then within meetings themselves,
there are so many different things one

can do, like make sure that you hear
from everybody when making a group

decision, but also building in time
for each person to be able to think.

And that benefits everybody because what
tends to happen in meetings is there's

not really much thought given in advance
to what you're going to be talking about.

And then the loudest or most dominant
people come in and hog up the microphone.

And we know from the Kellogg School
that three people do 70% of the

talking in your typical meeting.

So how do you avoid that?

One of my favorite techniques
comes from the world of education.

It's called think-pair-share.

And what you do is you, let's say
you're trying to make a decision,

you have everybody sit quietly
and think about their ideas.

Then you have people talk about
it in pairs just with one other

person, and only then do you
start sharing out with a group.

And you end up getting not only
more participation, not only

broader, but also more thoughtful
participation from everybody, the

extroverts as well as the introverts.

Think-pair-share is a technique
I have always adored and in my

teaching use it repeatedly for
all the reasons you talked about.

It's also a wonderful tool if
you have people who perhaps

are newer to a language.

It gives that same opportunity.

Wonderful specific advice on
how to structure the meetings.

The point about how we are assessing
people and what those criteria are

in looking at how they are perhaps
negatively impacting introverts

and finding the, the talent.

Thank you for sharing that.

I want to switch to your
other book, Bittersweet.

And in that, you explore the power
of embracing emotional complexity,

such as longing and sorrow.

In a business world that heavily
indexes on positivity, crushing it,

just moving forward, how can leaders
and all of us effectively communicate

vulnerability and to be, you know,
emotionally whole when we show up at work?

Any ideas about how to do that in
the way we relate and communicate?

It's a tricky thing because there can
be a risk to being too vulnerable,

especially if you're in a leadership
position, because people want to know

that their boss has got it together
and that their leader knows what's

happening and that they can rely on them.

And at the same time, they
also want to know the truth.

And the truth involves vulnerability
because the truth involves, "Well, I

don't know if we're going to be able to
make our shipment. I don't know if we're

going to be able to make our numbers."
So you want to find a way to share that

information truthfully while at the same
time communicating that you have a plan.

But kind of the broader perspective
for all that, I would offer a, a

different example, which is a case
study that I wrote about in Bittersweet.

This is a Harvard business case
study of an oil rig off the coast

of Texas and the Gulf of Mexico.

And they profiled the leader of this
oil rig, who was a very classical

sort of dominant type of guy.

And he started to feel that things
were not working the way they should.

And he did a really introspective
deep dive and realized that the

problem was that he wasn't being
truthful with the people in his

workplace, with members of his family.

He wasn't really being truthful
about what he was experiencing.

And he went through this process of
learning to do that and of encouraging

other workers to do that as well, to
really show up and talk about what

was going on in their personal lives.

And as a result of this, the accident
rates at this oil rig went way

down because suddenly people were
comfortable saying, "You know what?

I think this system might not
work, and I'm worried that

there could be an accident.

So how about if we try doing such and
such thing?" Whereas before, there had

been a culture where it was a quite
macho culture, and you never would

have wanted to do that because it
would have made you look too uncertain.

So accident rates went down and
their productivity went way up.

So the takeaway is there are ways to
express what you are truly experiencing.

But if you pair it by offering a plan
and an idea and a belief of what we

can do with this uncertainty, what
we can do with this vulnerability,

then people will trust it.

Setting up psychological safety and
role modeling, I think are two things

I took away from what you said, and the
result of it can be really positive.

I appreciate that, and clearly
there are benefits to that.

I see a thread across your work is
trying to find ways to bring power and

motivation and the full strength of the
people in organizations when there might

be biases against some of those ways.

Well, Susan, this has been lovely.

I knew that we would learn a lot
from you, and I personally am

really enjoying the conversation.

Before we end, I always ask
the guests three questions.

One I make up just for you, and the
others I've been asking everybody.

Are you up for that?

Yes, absolutely.

So I was delighted to learn something.

As we were arranging for this meeting,
I came to learn from your team

that you encourage people to take
time away from work and technology.

Can you share a little bit about
what motivates this, and what

purpose does it fulfill for
you and for those on your team?

I guess beyond the obvious answer to that
question is the fact that I personally

have experienced burnout in my life.

I know what it feels like,
and I know what causes it.

And I've experienced it in situations
where I didn't like my job so much, and

I've also experienced it with my current
work, and I adore my current work.

And there's still such a thing as burnout,
even with work that you really love.

We're especially prone to it in the age
of technology, where we are so tethered

to our phones and to our laptops.

And like now people don't even
say, "Let's get on a phone call."

They say, "Let's have a Zoom." So,
like just to have a conversation,

you're often staring into a screen.

It's terrible.

So I think we really need to be getting
away from all that as much as possible,

not only to stay sane, but to stay, you
know, creative and activated and happy.

Right.

And I just thought it was great to
see that it was a policy, and it was

a policy that was being dictated from
the person running the organization.

Question number two, who is a
communicator that you admire and why?

Well, you know, my favorite
communicator of all time, to whom

I dedicated my book Bittersweet,
is Leonard Cohen, the musician.

And I love him, and many people
do, because he is telling the

truth, and you know he is.

He's not the best singer.

He wasn't the best-looking man.

He often wasn't happy.

He suffered from depression
throughout much of his life.

And he told the truth about all of it.

And in so doing, he became incredibly
charismatic in his own way, and you felt

like you were getting the real thing.

Absolutely.

That authenticity, that truthfulness, very
important, and I appreciate you sharing.

Final question for you.

What are the first three ingredients that
go into a successful communication recipe?

Well, I mean, I guess the first
one is what we were just talking

about and have been talking about
throughout, and I would say sincerity.

We are evolutionarily designed to be able
to read all kinds of cues from the people

we're speaking to and make all kinds
of unconscious conclusions about them

without even knowing how we got there.

And so whatever mode you are speaking
in, people are going to know it.

And so it is true that there are
people like, you know, your classic con

man, let's say, who gets by by making
people feel really good and believing

something that isn't true, by promising
things that the people want to hear.

But that doesn't work over time.

That kind of person is really
good in a first meeting, maybe

a second meeting, maybe a third.

Doesn't work over time.

Over time, what works is truly showing
up in a way where you actually care,

you're actually trying to give value.

People will know it.

So maybe I'm saying two things.

One is to attend to your inner state,
knowing that it's your inner state that

people are going to be reacting to.

And number two is to be sincere.

And then I would say number three is
to find the place in you that truly

enjoys other people and enjoys the
world, and try to tap into that aspect

of yourself when you're going into
difficult communication settings.

Because we all have the more pessimistic
sides or more despairing sides or

whatever, and then we have the hopeful
and positive energy sides of ourselves.

Both those sides are okay and
great, but it can be helpful to

just sort of mindfully shift from
one to the other as you need to.

Yeah, and the ability to toggle
between those is really important.

So understand your inner state, where
you're coming from, how you are in the

world, be sincere, and look for the
external opportunities where you really

find joy and connection in others.

Those are really powerful
and important ingredients.

And this has been a really
important conversation.

I know many people listening and
watching to this, and just many

people in the world feel in some ways
inadequate or deficient because of

their introversion or their shyness.

And in fact, the contributions and
opportunities that they have to help

everybody are very positive and strong.

And I appreciate you highlighting
what those are and ways in

which we can enable that.

So thank you for your time,
and thank you for your insight.

Oh my gosh.

Thank you so much for having me and
for the work you do in the world.

I think it's so, so
important, so thank you.

Thank you for joining us
for another episode of Think

Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast.

To learn more about confidence
building, please listen to

episode 69 with Kelly McGonigal.

This episode was produced by
Katherine Reed, Ryan Campos, and me,

Matt Abrahams, with special thanks
to the Podium Podcast Company.

Our music is by Floyd Wonder.

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