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Writer, journalist, and traumatic brain injury survivor, Christina Brown Fisher speaks with former linebacker Jarrett Irons about the impact of brain injury. His father, Gerald Irons, played in the National Football League for ten years. Gerald was a linebacker for the Oakland Raiders and is listed as one of the top 100 players for the Cleveland Browns. Jarrett Irons discusses the cognitive decline he witnessed in the years leading up to his father's death.
Jarrett Irons was a linebacker for the University of Michigan and held the school's tackles record. Now he's part of a growing body of former football players who are making moves off the field in an attempt to make the sport safer.
Jarrett Irons was a linebacker for the University of Michigan and held the school's tackles record. Now he's part of a growing body of former football players who are making moves off the field in an attempt to make the sport safer.
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Greg Gibaldi
Editor - Me, Myself & TBI: Facing Traumatic Brain Injury Head On
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What is Me, Myself & TBI: Facing Traumatic Brain Injury Head On ?
Me, Myself & TBI: Facing Traumatic Brain Injury Head On provides information and inspiration for people affected by brain injury. Each episode, journalist and TBI survivor Christina Brown Fisher speaks with people affected by brain injury. Listen to dive deep into their stories and lessons learned.
Christina Brown Fisher
Hello! I’m Christina Brown Fisher, a writer, journalist, I am also a traumatic brain injury survivor, and host of “Me, Myself and T.B.I. Facing Traumatic Brain Injury Head On. I’m so excited to speak with today’s guest, because of what he’s doing to raise awareness about concussion and brain injury risks in sports.
What do you do with the pain and grief that follows the loss of loved one? A loved one who’d spent a decade playing in the National Football League? A loved one whose footsteps you’d eventually follow despite the danger? That’s the topic of discussion with Jarrett Irons, son of famed NFL linebacker Gerald Irons who died in 2021, at the age of 73. Gerald Irons suffered from Parkinson’s disease, but his son wonders whether he was also a victim of chronic traumatic encephalopathy, CTE. CTE, the degenerative brain disease has been tied to deaths of several former NFL players --- all who for years faced repeated exposure to blows to the head. After his father’s death, Jarrett questioned how his own future might unfold. You see, Jarrett Irons is an acclaimed football player too. He started playing tackle football when he was in the second grade and became an All-American linebacker for the University of Michigan football team. A native of The Woodlands, Texas, Jarrett played college football for Michigan from 1993 to 1996. He was a team co-captain of the 1995 and 1996 teams and was selected to the All-Big-Ten-Conference-Team, both years. At the end of his collegiate career, Jarret held Michigan's career tackles record. As for his father, Jarrett believes that his dad would not have played professional football for as long as he did, if he had known the damage countless blows to the head might cause.
Because of his father's experience, Jarrett, who now lives in Detroit, with his family, serves on the board of the University of Michigan Concussion Center. He’s part of a new team --- people advocating for concussion research and increased awareness. Researchers from the Concussion Center and the athletics department are examining whether sport participation and concussions are associated with later life brain health in former athletes and non-athletes. He joined me from his home in Detroit.”
Hi, there, thanks so much for taking the time to speak with me today.
Jarrett Irons
Oh, most definitely, thanks for having me.
Christina Brown Fisher
What a storied career you had at the University of Michigan. As I read these amazing accolades, what are some of the things that come to mind about that time in your life?
Jarrett Irons
It was a, it was a great time, and I mean it was my first time. You know, like you said, I'm from The Woodlands, Texas, so that was kind of my first time away, like, really staying away from home for a long period of time. And, and, you know, I feel, I made this statement before, you know, I left home as a boy and I became a man in Michigan because of just all the things that it takes and the perseverance. You have to, have to have to make it through that program and, and, and just, you know, fight through it. So I think, you know, when I look back at it, you know, being elected, you know, co-captain two years in a row, by my peers, that's probably one of my greatest accolades that I could say that I have. Because, you know, you know, when you, you don't choose to lead, people choose you to lead. So, for me, you know, being, you know, captain, two times in a row now, a lot of us have had that and that accomplishment and, I was doing it twice, while we're there. You know, that's probably one of my greatest accolades.
Christina Brown Fisher
I talked briefly about your father, Gerald Irons, who was in the NFL, with his pro career for about ten years. What was your early introduction, your earliest introduction that you can recall to football? Was it through your father?
Jarrett Irons
Well, it's interesting, so I grew up in a household of three boys, so I'm the middle child. So, I have an older brother that, Jerry, who, is three years older than me. He played at Nebraska for Tom Osborne, and he was a scholarship. Then I have a younger brother that's five years younger, that he was a two-time captain at Notre Dame. So, you know, football kind of ran in our family, but my dad was always, he was never, you know, one to say, "listen, you have to play football, and this is what you do." You know, because my dad, and that's what he did, he was just more like, "listen, I know you have talent and you're not going to just not use it. So whatever it is, whatever you do, whether it be, you know, sports related or academics, you're going to you're going to do something, you're going to stay busy." And so we all, you know, we all played all the other sports, but I gravitated towards football because it was just something that, you know, I just enjoy, you know, and I enjoyed playing it and enjoyed the camaraderie that you build from it. And, and I, you know, my younger brother was really good in baseball, and my older brother was good at golf. But, you know, we all kind of gravitated and had, you know, scholarships in football, so it kind of worked out that way.
Christina Brown Fisher
What made you decide on the University of Michigan?
Jarrett Irons
I, I was blessed, to have, multiple, offers. I could, you know, let's go back, when you talk about Texas high school football, you have a lot of options if you're good. So, you know, Texas, you know, high school football is big. And, and my school was a decent school. We, I had, I could have gone to any school I got, I got scholarships every school in the country. And I chose Michigan because, I wanted a program that, that had great tradition. Obviously, I knew I was going to be playing, and, you know, I'm from Texas, I wanted to be on television. But more and more importantly, I wanted a great academic experience and degree that was going to say something when I was done. And also, Michigan when I, when they recruited me, I knew I was going to redshirt my freshman year. And so, when, when, Gary Moeller and Lloyd Carr were recruiting me, they came to my house. My mom, dad made sure we met with every school that wanted me with a ((unintelligible)). My mom and dad are very big on never burning bridges. So, they made us sit with every school that wanted to see us and see, you know, all three of us, with them, especially when I was going through it. But, but one thing that I knew, I knew I was going to redshirt. So, I asked Gary Moeller, I said, "listen, I know I'm a redshirt. I'm gonna get that extra year. You know, I'm, I want to be on track to graduate in four years. And if I graduate in four years, my fifth year, what am I going to do?" And he's like, "listen, well, you know, Michigan is a pretty hard school, you know, a lot of guys that I redshirt are, you know, they'll, they'll take five years to graduate to make it easier." And I was like, "I don't know if I'm going to be there. I'm a graduate in four years. That's my goal. And I want to go, if I have to be there my fifth year, I want to start my masters, and he was like, "a lot of guys don't do that, you know, during that time." And he was like, but I was like, "listen, that's what I really want to do, and will you pay for it?" So, it was funny, we were all sitting in my living room and, and Gary Moeller said, yeah, "I mean, we don't normally do that, but yeah, we'll do that. Will honor that if that's what you want to do." And my dad, being the businessman that he is and, and that he was and all the things that, you know, he's taught us, he was like, yeah, "will you put that in writing?" So Michigan honored that, and, I got my undergrad and grad degree from University of Michigan. So, I'm very proud, to accomplish that, but that's one of the main reasons why I chose to go to Michigan. That, that alumni base, that degree, it means a lot.
Christina Brown Fisher
And I think it's important to also point out for our audience that during your father's career within the NFL, he also used that time to pursue his own, academic achievements, including law school for him, it wasn't just football.
Jarrett Irons
My dad was, you know, was a great entrepreneur, a businessperson in the area we grew up in. But he also, my dad served, 20 years, as president of the school board and in the, in the district we grew up in, in Texas, it's I was just reading not that long ago, that district that my dad controlled is out of the state of Texas, how big Texas is, it's one of the top five school districts in the state of Texas. And so, he, you know, he was big on academics. He was always building on that. And my dad, while he was playing for John Madden for the Raiders, in the off seasons, he would my mom, dad him from Gary, Indiana. So he would pick, you know, he would pack up my older brother and myself. My younger brother wasn't born yet. And we would drive from California, from Oakland, across country so my dad in the off seasons. He could be begin his MBA from University of Chicago. So, my dad, you know, he's the one that's set in stone for, for myself and my brothers, to you know, take academics very seriously and, and know that listen, football is a great sport, but it's, it's only a finite time of your life, right? And it's not everything. And you got to have, have opportunities and create opportunities for yourself to excel life after sports. So, he was really big on that.
Christina Brown Fisher
At what point did you recognize that, and I think it's important that you did mention the, priority and just how big football is in Texas. When I was in the military, I was stationed in Texas, in San Antonio, and I don't think there's anything bigger than football in Texas than maybe the oil and maybe the ranching industries. I mean, Texas is, you know, football. In Texas it's the lifeblood. But beyond that, at what point did you recognize that, you could compete at a Division One collegiate level and even have legitimate aspirations for a professional career? Despite the fact that your father was a pro, but, I mean, that was something that you were considering as well?
Jarrett Irons
Yeah, you know, for me it was interesting, I never, I knew, I knew that I had talent, and I knew that like, listen I love football, but I didn't love it like, like where I wanted to play, you know, the NFL, like, all my life or for ten years, like my dad played. That was, that was never my aspiration.
Christina Brown Fisher
I see, I see.
Jarrett Irons
I knew football was going to be and I knew I was very good at it, but I knew that it was going to be an avenue that was going to open doors. And that's, that's when, that's where I was using it. Whether it be, you know, that I play ten years in the NFL or I just make it do a cup of coffee in the NFL. But, you know, I knew that football was going to open doors and, and, and it has. I mean it, you know, allow me to go to University of Michigan and, and, and do the things I've done there and, and, and be, and be, in the, in the, you know, the, the, the history books of Michigan and to have my name; like when I go back the Schembechler Hall it'll be interesting when I, I have young kids, but when I take them, I haven't taken them yet. But when I take them to Schembechler Hall and they see their dad's picture all over the place with, you know, being a two-time captain and being an All-American, like, they have this All-American wall where, you know, you take this beautiful pictures, it's black and white, you have this Michigan sweater on, but they don't give those out. I mean, this is a storybook program. So, for me, you know, football opened up a lot of doors. And it was, it was a, it was a great time in my life and I wouldn’t trade that because of the camaraderie and the, and the friendships and the brotherhood that it taught me. And I think that's what that, that's what I've loved about football so much, is that the relationships that you build, the brotherhood that's what, what makes it worth it to me?
Christina Brown Fisher
At what point Jarrett did you start to recognize the toll physically, that the sport was, was taking on you, and more broadly, how it had also impacted your dad?
Jarrett Irons
I didn't really, you know, when you're going through it, you don't think about it. You know, you think that when you're younger, you're invincible, you get hurt. I mean, it's a tough sport. So you always have injuries and so forth, and you kind of just played through them, you know what I mean? I, I never really thought about it until, until probably, my dad passed away three years ago. So, three, three years ago yesterday was when he passed away. And when I think back to like maybe ten years before, like he passed away, I started, when I started to notice differences in him. That's when, you know, I started thinking about the vulnerability of the sport and and the toll it takes on your body. You know what I mean? I never really growing up, I never thought about it.
Christina Brown Fisher
Your dad passed away in 2021, and you're thinking about how he had changed, how he had been different over the last ten years or so, from 2011 to 2021, is when you noticed some changes that seemed, seemed what?
Jarrett Irons
So my dad had early onset Parkinson's and dementia, early onset dementia. And so a lot of that, you know, and obviously that's, that's kind of one of the reasons why my involvement in the Concussion Center is that, you know, bringing more awareness, and I, you know, I'm very passionate about it because, you know, I feel as though my dad, you know, suffered from CTE.
Christina Brown Fisher
Chronic traumatic encephalopathy, which is, a degenerative disease that is linked to repeated head trauma. But it is something that can only be definitively diagnosed postmortem. Were you, or your family able to have his brain examined and get an official diagnosis?
Jarrett Irons
No, we it was unfortunate. So, when my dad passed away, my dad had a, he he, had passed out at the house, and, and, you know, hit his head, they luckily, my brothers were happened to be at the home and they revived him. And once they got him to the hospital and, and it, it allowed me to get some time to get there, you know, that's my home. Just to say my goodbyes as it was, um, he had been on a ventilator too long. So when once my dad passed away, he had been on a ventilator for so long that they they couldn't, his brain, they wouldn't be able to to test his brain after that because of what the ventilator does.
Christina Brown Fisher
I see.
Jarrett Irons
We didn't know that at the time. Yeah, yeah, we didn't know, but we definitely, tried to have them examine his brain, but it's just one of those things. But I think that's what what kind of, you know, piqued my interest of we have to do more. We have to with the modern technology we have now, we have to figure out how, how we can test individuals while they're living.
Christina Brown Fisher
There's a couple of things that, come to mind following what you just said, which is one, kind of the lack of maybe awareness for families to have a protocol a way of having their loved one’s brain examined following their death, particularly if that loved one is someone who, who played in, professional sport, the NFL. So, I want to first talk about that. And if you can, Jarrett, can you further explain to me kind of why, or what is your understanding as to why you didn't have the resources, why your family didn't have the resources or the understanding of, "Okay, what do we do? We want answers. We want to know what happened, to our father. Where can we go to to get answers?" What was the environment that you were facing in 2021?
Jarrett Irons
You know, when I look at the NFL and especially, you know, during my dad while he was, his, you know, while he was sick, you know the NFL they do a good job in a lot of, a lot of other ways. But I think when it comes to the, you know, the collective bargaining agreement and when it comes to, the recent collective, collective bargaining agreement, that bargaining agreement helps a lot of the current and future players.
Christina Brown Fisher
The Collective Bargaining Agreement is the governing document between the owners of the National Football League and the NFL Players Association’s labor union. It was approved in 2020 and will be in place until the end of 2030 season. According to the NFL Players Association, “among the most covered changes, a move from 16 to 17 regular season games, an expanded playoff field from 12 to 14 teams, and increase in the players’ revenue split, plus, practice limitations; reduced punishments for players testing positive for marijuana…” The deal also includes an increase in the minimum salary, pensions, roster sizes, and health benefits for players.
Jarrett Irons
The players, like my dad played from 70 to 80. So, like his generation and his teammates, you know, all of them are hurting like they're all, you know, and there's not, there's not a lot of resources for them, you know, to, to you whether it be testing whether it be, just help at home. I mean there's certain things they do have but it's not, it's not, it's not readily available and you kind of have to jump through hoops, you know, and, and let's be honest, I mean listen that the, the NFL is, is probably, I would venture to say is probably the strongest brand we have in the United States. When you look at brand, brand awareness and the amount of money that comes in, let's be real. Like the NFL really doesn't want to talk about, like they're doing more now because they have to, but they don't want to talk about CTE. They don't want to talk about like the sport being as violent as it is. You know what I mean? Because it's messing up, it messes up that brand there's too much money involved. And so, you know, I think that for, you know, I think this next generation, you know, it's going to be better for them because now the NFL is being forced to have to talk about concussion, having to be, being forced to talk about the safety of the game because there's young kids that are playing now. You know, I look at, you know, just, you know, from, you know, I when I played in Texas, I mean, I, I was in tackle football since I was in second grade. So, like, you know what I mean, it's it was ingrained in us. But I think that the NFL at that time, the resources, a lot of people weren't talking about CTE or talking about concussion or talking about the dangers of the game. I know when I went home, when I was home during that time, when my dad passed, you know, we're all getting together and as a family, you know, I went into his office, and I've never done this before. I went in his office. My dad has, like, you know, like 4 or 5 of his helmets that he played, kind of, kind of, you know, sitting up on his desk and, you know, and, you know, obviously, you know, showing him as, you know, things he's done and he's got a, you know, helmet of mine and my older brother and Grant, my younger brother. So, we've got all of our helmets up there, kind of a showcase, but I've never really picked up one of his helmets and really looked at it since I've been a grown man. So, I looked, and these are the last helmets he played in, right? So, you look at my dad played from 70 to 80. I looked at the, the cushioning inside one of his helmets. I mean, it was just basically thread. It wasn't even like real cushion in there you know?
Christina Brown Fisher
No padding?
Jarrett Irons
No padding.
Christina Brown Fisher
No structural integrity?
Jarrett Irons
Yeah so it's like it makes sense why a lot of his, the guys that played in his era, you know, suffer from CTE or suffer from some sort of brain disorder. Because you look at the, the equipment we had during that time. But it hit me when I was in there, I was like looking, I was like, "wow, man, this is unbelievable. I'd jokingly I said to myself, "no wonder my dad has a brain, you know, brain issues because I mean, look what he was playing in."
Christina Brown Fisher
And your belief that your father suffered brain damage because of his decade-long career as a linebacker in the NFL is anecdotal, it's based on what you saw, how he changed in the years leading up to his death? It’s not based on any sort of definitive, you know, medical, clinical diagnosis, in part, if I'm understanding what you're saying correctly, in part because players of his generation don't have the same accessibility to testing and evaluation. Is that fair? Am I understanding you correctly?”
Jarrett Irons
Very clear, very fair.
Christina Brown Fisher
You said that your father passed in 2021, but really when you look back over the last ten years of his life we're talking 2011 to 2021, that's when you really see, some significant cognitive decline or changes?
Jarrett Irons
Yeah, most definitely, yeah, most definitely.
Christina Brown Fisher
In 2011, that is not that long after the NFL was initially, really at the center of public scrutiny surrounding head injury, risk of head injury and its connection to the game.
I'm thinking 2007, 2008 around that time is when national conversations were focused on contact sports, but mostly the NFL. That being said --- in 2011, that cognitive decline, the changes you were seeing in your father, were you linking it to his football career, especially in light of the discussions that were going on at that point?
Jarrett Irons
Yeah, I was because and and obviously, you know, anecdotally, I definitely was because, you know, knowing my dad, like, you know, my dad was the most in-shape guy you would ever meet. Like my dad and my dad, he didn't drink, he didn't eat poorly, didn't drink, drink or do drugs or smoke or anything. He was probably the healthiest person. It was crazy, like when when he was in the hospital, you know, he was on a ventilator in. The doctors were like, you know, it's it's, it's unfortunate because it's, you know, it's his brain, but, like, you know, his body is like a tank. I mean, my dad was one of those guys. He when he got done playing, he still did two days like he would, you know, my dad.
Christina Brown Fisher
And by two-a-days we mean workout twice a day.
Jarrett Irons
Yeah, his body was a temple. I mean, he had three Division I athletes, sons that he trained, not training us like he was trying to coach us, training us in a sense that, like, "look I'm, if you're out there working out. I'm not going to ask you to do something I'm not going to do."
Christina Brown Fisher
I see.
Jarrett Irons
And my dad, we would be out there in the heat of Texas just working out. So my dad, was, he was, he was in great, great shape, but it was just his brain, you know what I mean? So that definitely makes me think that there's more to it because it wasn't, you know, my dad, like I mean, for 73, I mean, it's just I mean, his body, he was chiseled man. He was, you know, in shape like, like no other and ate very, very well.
Christina Brown Fisher
What a what about for yourself, Jarrett? At what point have you thought about the impact of the game on your health and your well-being?
Jarrett Irons
Well, I mean, I think of that now as I'm 50 years old, so, you know, I do I think of it, you know, from the standpoint that, listen, you know, anyone I, I do a lot of work in orthopedics. So, you know, knee and hip replacement. So, you know, I've done that for a long time. And so, I understand arthritis, understand, you know, your body and, and very well in the anatomy and so forth. And just knowing look, when you do something for a long period of time and you get older, naturally you're going to have, you know, your body's going to change. I mean, the way I, I am at 50, where I feel at 50 compared to when I was in my 20s, it's probably a lot different, you know what I mean? But and I understand that, and so, you know, that comes with it. But I think for me, you know, sort of like, you know, I'm not as extreme as my dad, but, you know, I, I do a good regimen of working out. I mean, I think that for me, like, you know, obviously, you know, whatever comes from my illness from playing are going to come. You know what I mean? But I think living my life now I just do, I try to stay active. I, you know, I when I moved to Detroit, I put a really nice gym in my, in my, in my house and, and so, you know, I make sure I try to get, you know, four days a week of something in.
Christina Brown Fisher
How many concussions do you think you've suffered?
Jarrett Irons
Yeah, it's funny, I, I've, I've done numerous interviews since I've joined the, the Concussion Center Board at Michigan and, done numerous interviews about it. I, I only recall one, one, concussion that I had when I was playing. And it was a mild one, but I don't, I don't recall ever getting, you know, having a concussion, you know, and, and it's funny, maybe I, it's funny. I, one of my friends was listening to one of my interviews and was joking and he's like, "because you didn't hit hard," you know, or something like that. But, you know, I made a lot of tackles that, you know, I just I didn't hit that hard. But, you know, the thing is about, about concussion, you know, everybody talks about how, you know, how many concussions have you had, this and that, and that kind of a predetermines of like, what's going to happen. But it's not about that, it's, it's more about the hits that you take in, on your head. You know, just the movement of that, you know. You might not, I might not have been had a concussion. But I've had multiple hits with my with my, my head. So that's something that I definitely think about. You know, I think about it because cognitively I mean, you know, you don't know what what what you know, as time goes on, the older we get, you know, your body is naturally going to, to, to wear down, I think by us, by myself and my brothers, all of us being athletes and playing and playing at a high level. I mean, I can't say it's going to happen, but the risks are probably higher for us, and it would be an average person. People in general, you know, get you know, you know, early onset dementia or Parkinson's. That just happens with normal people every day, no matter what, you know, whether they played sports or not. But I think that because probably we did, I mean, we're probably more prone than other than the average person.
Christina Brown Fisher
That really is at the heart at this. The heart of this Michigan Alumni Brain Health study is examining to what extent participation in sport, in contact sport and concussions are connected to later life, brain health. How did you become involved, with this study and what made you decide to allow yourself to be evaluated like this?
Jarrett Irons
You know, I, and some of my other work that I do, you know, I sit in on a few other boards where, you know, we, we help former, Michigan players that have any, any, any needs, whether it be mental health, substance abuse, whether it be financial or if they have health needs, somebody needs surgery, you know. So, you know, I, I, I, I've sat on those boards and watched, and just watching my fellow brethren that, that are hurting out there. So, I think one doing that type of advocacy work, kind of opened my mind to it. And I think when my, you know, when my dad passed, there was, there was a lot of, like, a lot of interviews, there was a lot of things that that were in the in the news. You know, I really didn't understand being my dad was until he passed away, to be honest with you.
Christina Brown Fisher
Is that right?
Jarrett Irons
I never, I never really understood. I never thought because he was, he was just Dad. I mean, it was just, you know, like, you know, when he passed away and you see the ticker on CNN or NFL Network or ESPN, you know, "Gerald Irons has passed away." It, it brought, it kind of brought it home to me. I'm like, "God my Dad was really a big deal," you know what I mean? A lot of people knew him, you know. And so, I think during that process, you know, I did, my brothers and I did a lot of interviews, and talking about his life and so forth. And I think, you know, Michigan, you know, the Concussion Center kind of follows some of those things. And one, one of my good friends, that played at Michigan he played baseball, Marlon Wright, saw that the passion that I had towards this subject and know, and he works in that division where the Concussion Center is at Michigan, and he was talking to the head guy. He's like, "man, I got, I got somebody that that I think he should put on your board, and you got to meet him." And and he introduced me to him and, and honestly, you know, at that time, you know, when, when when they approached me, you know, it's it's for me, it's about, you know, I'm passionate about anything that I get, that I'm involved in. I'm gonna give my all to it. Whatever, you know, if I can help bring more awareness to this subject. And, you know, I, you brought it up earlier, you know, the interview that and I did. And and I think back to, you know, I talk about this conversation my mom had with my dad, and I don't remember what year it was, but it was during the time where my dad got to a point where he realized that the, you know, whatever he has, he he knows that like it's because is more likely is because of his of him playing football for a long period of time. And my mom and dad, you know were married 50 years, high school sweethearts, and they were having a discussion. And, you know, my dad's got his MBA, he's got his law degree. So, like, you know, we as a family, we were, you know, we were fine. But my dad was saying to our mom, you was my mom, "He's like, listen, if I know what I know now, like, I never like I never really, you know, I didn't have to play as long as I played, you know."
Christina Brown Fisher
If he knew the risks? Is that, is that what he was saying?
Jarrett Irons
If he understood the risk, and so my dad, you know, even though he was having, you know, issues cognitively, you know, in his brain, you know, he, he had clarity too, you know? His short-term memory wasn't the best. But like, he remembered a lot of things. You know, my dad was kind of a renaissance, renaissance man. I mean, he wrote poetry and he did a lot of stuff. So he was just a dynamic, dynamic individual. But I remember my mom telling the story, you know, how my dad would, you know, sit with my mom. And just because my mom, my mom knew, you know, they were very close. They sheltered us from a lot of what was going on, on my dad for long. So my dad was probably sicker than…
Christina Brown Fisher
You realized.
Jarrett Irons
Than I realized until it got to a point where, you know, it was hard for my mom to cover it up. You know?
Christina Brown Fisher
I see, okay.
Jarrett Irons
My dad got very reclusive, where, my dad is, was like the life of the party. Everybody wanted to be around them. He loved people, you know, in the community. Like, you know, my dad was like, you go to the grocery store with my parents, I mean, we would be there for three hours because people were going to all talk to him. You know, he was that type of person. And it got to a point where he really didn't want to be around people and that he didn't really want, to, to be out in, in, and vocal, and be in the public eye. I, that's when I really knew like, things were really changing and, and then he wasn't himself. And my mom tells a story about how he would late at night, he would talk to, they'd be in the bed and he would say, "listen, you know, if I would have known that it was going to, that it would, you know, the football was this damaging. I didn't have to play for ten years. I could have, you know, I could have retired a lot earlier," you know, and I think that, you know, you know, when you when you look at it, I mean, it's, it you're seeing that more now in football now than you've ever seen. You've seen more younger guys retire or say, look, "I'm not doing it, it's not worth it," you know. So, I don't, you know, I think to get back to your point, you know, the reason why they chose me is because of my passion, my advocacy towards former, former players. And whether it be, you know, obviously, you know, brain issues or just in general, I'm all I'm here to help.
Christina Brown Fisher
What are you telling players about what you think they should consider or do, with regards to, whether it be their collegiate career in football or professional, what are you telling them?
Jarrett Irons
You know, I think that's, I think every, every choice is an individual choice, you know I listen …
Christina Brown Fisher
But if they ask your opinion, what do you say?
Jarrett Irons
Yeah, I'd say “you've got to do what's best in your heart.” I mean, there's, there's ramifications for anything you do, you know, like, if, if, when I look back at my career from high school to college, I wouldn't trade it. I really wouldn't.
Christina Brown Fisher
Despite the risks.
Jarrett Irons
Despite the risks, because I think the gains of what you, the camaraderie, the, the discipline, the, the life lessons that football teaches you are so vital.
Christina Brown Fisher
I saw in an interview that, you and your family believe that head trauma contributed to your father's symptoms of depression, Parkinson's and Lewy Body dementia. And the reason why I bring that up is that when you say that the role of camaraderie, the leadership skills, the opportunities that you know, you and perhaps other athletes may not have had without a football career. You are, and again, I'm asked, correct me if I'm wrong you're, you're saying that that is too important, too impactful in your life despite these really significant health risks.
Jarrett Irons
Yeah, well and I think that, I agree, and I am saying that, but I think that's why my passion towards trying to make the game safer. Towards more research, towards, that's why I've gotten so passionate about it. Because when I, when I think that so what, how, how football is impacting my life. You know whether it be you know my dad, to me playing, my brothers, playing to just, you know, life in general like it's a great sport you know. And so it hit me one day where I'm like listen I don't want to because you know, you get you everybody, everybody wants to go on extremes. Where alright now, you know, they know, you know, they're thinking of, you know, concussions cause CTE, and football it's a dangerous sport this and that, and, and they go on tangents and think, well, you know, "let's end everything, let's stop," you know.
Christina Brown Fisher
This has actually become a politicized subject. We're in a place now where we've got people talking about eliminating football. What do you say to people who are just as passionate in the same way that you're passionate about, “Let's figure out a way to make the sport safer for young people,” there are people that are just as passionate about, “let's figure out a way to eliminate the sport because it is so dangerous.” What do you say to those individuals?
Jarrett Irons
Everybody wants to target football all the time. But if you look at soccer, you look at women's soccer, like the numbers on concussions that come from, from that are higher than they are in football. So it's like you look at all the sports and that's, that's the beautiful thing about the Concussion Center. They're not just looking at football. You know I'm very passionate about making it safer. It's, it's about all the sports. How do we make them all safer.
Christina Brown Fisher
So for you part of it, is increasing awareness, but also recognizing that football shouldn't be the bull's eye on the target. If we're talking about increasing awareness about safety in contact sport, we need to be talking about all sport, not just football?
Jarrett Irons
When you start looking at the research you know. Yeah, football yeah, you do see that a lot of people do have concussions and so forth. But it's not, if you look at the other sports man, they're, they're just...
Christina Brown Fisher
We're talking soccer. We're talking lacrosse. We're talking rugby, yeah, yeah, I've seen the data too.
Jarrett Irons
Like I said, you know, it's about making it all safer, you know, but I think that the, the lessons learned, so, you get back to my dad playing ten years, right, and him sitting up with my mom saying, like, "if I would have known, I wouldn't have played as long," you're know what I mean? That's real, like that's real when you think about that. You know what I mean? It's real. And you look at me as, as, you know, my high school and college career. I didn't really play a long time in the NFL, but I'm like, well, look, I, I still would do it. You know what I mean? And so, you know, it's a, you know, football, I don't, you're never going to outlaw football. It's, you know, it's a sport that's going to be around, you know what I mean? And it's too much. It's, I mean…
Christina Brown Fisher
I love that, “you're never going to outlaw football…”
Jarrett Irons
Not going to happen, like, let's just be real.
Christina Brown Fisher
I Agree.
Jarrett Irons
Let's just be honest, and let's, let's not waste time, you're not going to outlaw it, not in America. But look, they love football, so it's going to be played, it's too much money. College and pro is too much money on the line, they're gonna play football. So, if that's the case, let's make it ((unintelligible)) because you're not going to, if you're, not going to stop that aspect, you know what I mean? And I think they're, in the NFL, I'm gonna tell you, as big as the NFL is, they're, they are making strides. Like, you know, just with the rule changes with the, you know, kickoff and receiving. They just changed the rule like like last week.
Christina Brown Fisher
The new format from the NFL will continue to have the ball kicked from the kicking team’s 35-yard line, however every player on the kicking team with the exception of the kicker will line up with at least one foot on the returning team’s 40-yard line.
And until the ball is fielded by the returner, no players other than the kicker and the returners can move.
Jarrett Irons
Like you know, they're going to be closer. Where it's not going to be as hard collisions and so forth. So, they're trying to make it safer. I think that, you look at the way teams practice now when they have these like, these, foam, over their helmets. You know, there's a lot of that going on, you know…
Christina Brown Fisher
And helmets that are position specific too.
Jarrett Irons
Yeah, yes, so like from that standpoint look, the, the, that sport is too big to fail, so they got to find a way. It's gonna, in a matter of time, it's gonna have be safer. And they're trying to make it safe, you look, like the way the way we practice when I got there, from '92 when I got there, from '92 to '96 when I was in Michigan, compared to how they practice now. Like, yeah, like we did two a day practices in the summer. They won't do that anymore. They're one, one time on the field. They're doing a lot of, a lot of film study and so forth.
Christina Brown Fisher
You don't think anything is lost in that, in terms of the ability to compete and win. Is there anything lost in changing that, the training?
Jarrett Irons
When you talk to old school guys, they might think that, you know, you know, this generation is soft.
Christina Brown Fisher
I was wondering when you were going to say that.
Jarrett Irons
Listen, you know, when I played and the guys that came before me thought we were soft, you know. Yeah, but, but, but I think that it's, it's more that that that, you know, we're, we're, we're making the game safer trying to do, control the things we can control. And, and this sport has gotten so, so advanced with technology and with the schemes of how we run plays now. That, you know, a lot of it, is, it's about film studying anyway, let's, you know I mean, it's a cerebral game. Like, like when people would say like, you know, you know, this dumb football player, I'm like, man, if you really understood how hard it is to understand that sport, to play at that level, how smart you have to be, like, come on, dude, it's, it's a whole different ballgame. So, these are smart individuals that are that, you know, as the game keeps changing, progressing, that they're going to, you know, they're not gonna to be hidden as much.
Christina Brown Fisher
Jared any final thoughts what do you really want to leave the audience remembering about this conversation?
Jarrett Irons
Well, I want to leave with the fact I love what you're doing. I love the brand awareness, and thank you. You know what I mean? My family thanks you. I mean, I think I think I think having conversations like this and, and, and having people talk about it, that's what's going to continue to bring awareness and keep this in the forefront. And that's why I'm very passionate about it. And, you know, for me, I have a lot of, you know, former teammates, people that I know, you know, college and NFL, we talk about it, you know, we all want to make the game safer as well because, you know, you're right. I mean, these are you know, a lot of my friends that have older kids that are playing football now, you know what I mean. So, it's like, why wouldn't we? So I commend you. Kudos to you on, on keeping this awareness going. Thank you for having me on. And and I would love to come out anytime and talk about it.
Christina Brown Fisher
I'd love to have you back. Yes, for sure, for sure. One quick question, because, just because you just brought up just now when it comes to your kids, I know you have girls. Although there are girls playing football, there are ladies playing football now. But how would you feel if your daughters or if you had sons said, hey, "I want to play football?" What would your response be?
Jarrett Irons
I would just tell them the truth and say “listen, you know, they're, it’s a tough sport. There's a lot of life lessons that, that, that you learn through it. If it's something that you want to, you want to pursue, I'm a support you.” You know what I mean? I'm, I'm very grateful that I have girls that are, you know, that they love to be on the swim team and art …
Christina Brown Fisher
So you don’t have to deal with that just yet, you don’t have to deal with that, okay, I get it
Jarrett Irons
But, you know I have friends that have daughters that play, they play hockey. that’s brutal.
Christina Brown Fisher
Yeah, oh yeah, that's...
Jarrett Irons
Yeah, especially in the Midwest. I mean, yeah, yeah, you know, it's, it's something...
Christina Brown Fisher
I have a little boy who's in the martial arts. He's young, he’s six, he's taekwondo. But he, he's been doing taekwondo for a couple of years. Granted at his age and stage they're not sparring they're learning form. They're learning the mechanics of it. But he just recently became interested in jiu jitsu. And I'm trying to do everything I can to pretend I'm calm about it.
Jarrett Irons
But I think sports in general, the life lessons that sports teaches, teaches people, that teaches us. I think it's worth it, you know, and I think that, you know, it's worth you know, pursuing. But, you know, also trying to make it as safe as we can make it.
Christina Brown Fisher
My guest Jarrett Irons, he was a four-year starting linebacker at the University of Michigan and a second-team All-America and first-team All-Big Ten select in 1995. He was also a co-captain of the 1995 and 1996 Michigan football teams. His father Gerald Irons, a former Oakland Raiders linebacker died in 2021. Gerald played 10-years in the NFL and following his father’s death Jarrett shifted his attention to concussion research and advocacy. He’s part of the Michigan Alumni Brain Health Study. The pilot study is looking at the long-term health impacts of contact sports among Michigan players and nonathletes.
I hope to have Jarrett and researchers from the Concussion Center back to discuss the study’s results.
As always, thank you for joining me and supporting Me, Myself & TBI. I’m Christina Brown Fisher and we’re facing traumatic brain injury head on.