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The Moonshots Podcast goes behind the scenes of the world's greatest superstars, thinkers and entrepreneurs to discover the secrets to their success. We deconstruct their success from mindset to daily habits so that we can apply it to our lives. Join us as we 'learn out loud' from Elon Musk, Brene Brown to emerging talents like David Goggins.
hello and welcome to the moonshots
podcast it's episode
265 I'm your co-host mik Parsons and as
always I'm joined by the man himself Mr
Mark Pearson Freeland good morning Mark
hey good morning Mike good morning
members listeners and viewers we are
diving in with a brand new topic within
our series on creativity aren't we today
Mike by going back into another of Step
pressfield's epic works yeah I think
it's safe to to say we've survived the
war which was the last episode and we're
ready to do some work wouldn't
you yeah I think you're totally right if
the war of art Was Won by us I think
today we're going to learn even more
from a practical perspective with
regards to this big capital r word of
resistance and how to put up and get out
our work that we end up doing and that
is pressfield's book do the work which
Mike you know it isn't necessarily a
part one part two situation with with
pressfield's books but I think what
we're definitely going to see today is a
continuation of some of the themes that
we were finding out in last week's
episode specifically with regards to
like I said overcoming that resistance
that a lot of us in fact all of us face
you know with probably with most of our
work
but I think there's also elements and
tips and practical habits that we can
pick up in today's episode that in my
mind can help us with a lot of the other
work that we're doing as well not just
from a creative perspective but also
mindset behavior and activity yeah I
think uh way the reason we picked this
book of Steven pressfield's to follow
the war of art is this one uh really
speaks
to the practi iCal road map of
activities you need to
do uh and it's very practically minded
so regardless of your creative Pursuit
writing working music it doesn't matter
so many things now I think you can
consider creative work what this book
tackles is all of the
inertia the fogginess the dustiness that
we experience when we're trying to do
creative work and what's so powerful
about this book is if you get a bit
stuck at times you feel a little
indecisive maybe you're putting it off
or maybe in the end you never ship your
work there's like a library full of half
completed projects this show is for you
because what he's going to do is explain
how we might be tempted to think and
feel in our journey to produce and to
create and particularly when we come up
with challenges he's going to help us
break through those so if you want to do
more work if you want to do great work
this is the episode for you wow what an
opener statement there Mike couldn't
said it better myself and maybe even
Steven pressfield would' be pretty
pleased with that so why don't we launch
straight in hot off the heels of your
breakdown just then with Stephen himself
he's having a chat with Baker from Man
versus debt and he's going to help us
understand a little bit more about this
brand new book in our series on
creativity do the work it's sort of a
manual that takes you from the start of
a project to the finish of a project
hitting the points of resistance that
will come come up as they as they happen
and they're amazingly
predictable you can see that like just
in say a screenplay let's say you're
writing a
screenplay you'll plunge first there's a
resistance at to even start you'll come
up with all these reasons why me I'm not
good enough I'm too old I'm too young
I'm too stupid whatever yeah then you'll
Plunge in on pure enthusiasm you'll get
to about you know fifth of the way
through and then you'll panic because
you're like outside of the site of shore
but you can't see the other side anyway
so to boil get down to your question of
takeaways from do the work it's that for
one thing if you hit these sticking
points in anything you're doing you're
not alone y you're not the first person
that that has hit this thing everybody
hits it whether it's Neil Young or
Donald Trump or anybody that's doing
anything and there is a way through each
one of these points that that you will
hit and a lot of it comes down to that
professional attitude and a sort of a do
the that's why it's called do the work
there's no sort of mystery to it it's
just making yourself face each Challenge
and push through it no matter what I
thought what was interesting Mark is he
said they're
predictable yeah yeah and I think that
demystifies them uh somewhat like when
you face a moment of resistance or he
calls them sticking
points if you're like
oh yeah well this is I'm a bit stuck on
this to me it's the same thing is I'm
going to run uh in my running training
I'm going to run a bit longer than I
usually do and maybe those last
kilometers are a bit harder or maybe I'm
going to lift more weights than I
usually do maybe they're going to be a
bit harder that's predictable right
you're pushing yourself well we can
apply that same thinking to our creative
work and I actually think what's also
special about what you're saying there's
nothing like super magical Happening
Here you've got to go it's G to happen
and you need to be like a professional
and keep going and don't give in and I
think there's the rub I think we often
allow ourselves the permission to
abandon right we pull on the emergency
court when we Face these things because
we might be scared of failing in front
of others or doing bad work or unsure
that we can do it or we just don't like
the uncertainty so it's all about
reconfiguring how we respond to those
moments isn't it yeah big time and the
idea of predictable resistance for me
speaks again to that concept of hero's
journey so knowing that there is a path
that we all you know end up following
inadvertently perhaps whereby as Stephen
was saying that the the start is hard a
little bit in the middle is hard and
then as we're going to find out later in
the show the actual end bit is really
hard but because it's an experience that
other people have gone through as well
as maybe as you were just alluding to
then when you've got the experience
yourself maybe it's in the example of
running a marathon you kind of know when
those walls are going to come and maybe
even you're running the same course
maybe two two Loops in a row and you can
kind of think oh no that gradient is
going to come at me and I'm not looking
forward to it that level of insight
actually in a funny sort of way is
reassuring isn't it because you know hey
if other people have done it I think I
can give it a go or maybe I've done it
before and I can do it again right so
this idea of predictable it's kind of
like naming the Beast isn't it yes it's
predictable and therefore it feels
something it's a feels like a mountain
that I'm going to be able to climb
because I know that others have been
there first so what are the moments
if you think about your work Mark what
are the moments where you experience
resistance and are there some moments
where when you first experienced them
you kind of freaked out but now you're
like oh yeah no problem I got this where
have you kind of trained yourself to do
the
work I think I'm I think like a lot of
us it's going to be a A continuing
journey I probably haven't quite nailed
it yet but for me the the key part of
resistance is looking at a big pile of
things to do and not knowing where to
start sometimes but sure sure but hang
on but surely like when I think about
when you started swimming in the ocean
you crazy man in the Australian ocean uh
that was really tough but you do it
regularly now surely you've you've
trained yourself to feel that resistance
and not freak out right I think because
it I I managed to get to a point and
this is what I try and do with some of
the projects that I'm trying to
accomplish by getting things started is
actually enjoying that little bit of a
challenge so like I say let's use the
example let's build on that example of
the of Open Water Swimming yeah you're
right at the start there was a lot of
resistance both from a it's cold it's
far it's deep what else is in there uh
who what what what is you know lurking
in the shadows right so a lot of that as
well as hey I don't know any of these
people I'm getting into a new social
community group that I've got to go out
and meet so there's a lot of reasons oh
and another one it's too dark outside I
don't want to have to get up in the rain
so there's all of these moments that I
created in my head that were excuses and
signposts that I could have taken to go
off the path yes so ah it's it's 5 a.m.
what am I doing why am I waking up now
to go and swim in a cold water I think
I'll lay in bed instead of going down
that path I'll think actually I I I am
convinced that if I accomplish this I
will feel better than I would if I
didn't do it right I will feel a sense
of accomplishment I'll feel maybe that
great uh feeling that your body gets
after cold water also it's a social
experience hanging out with likeminded
individuals so and there's also the
challenge it's the actual um individual
challenge of getting out there and and
doing something I think think and I I I
believe this is where you were taking me
with this question and and the example
of swimming I see that as an experience
all of those signposts as things that
people see when they're starting a
project yes that you'll find moments
excuses you'll find signpost for excuses
to not do something maybe it's you don't
think you're good enough maybe it's
because it's uh requires an extra 30
minutes in your day to carve out time
for that creative Endeavor or maybe it's
something that is you know just you
don't really know where to start and for
me at least I found that by thinking
forward and thinking okay well what
happens when I do finish it well I'm
going to feel more energetic I'll feel
that endorphin release I feel that sense
of accomplishment those Pros then
suddenly for me started to outweigh the
cons of going out in the rain getting
cold and so because I knew that it was
only going to be temporary
and I presume like that's probably
similar to you with with the lord of the
marathons and the running that you've
done as well yeah yeah so um
definitely um I can almost see it as a
right of
passage so to write a book to do to
build a course to work on a big project
to run a long
distance I think
I work on it doesn't always come
naturally but I see it as ride of
Passage like there's something like when
I go for my really long runs I I go to a
special part of Sydney Harbor where I
can run these big S kmet loops and it's
really stunning and beautiful and I just
know when I'm driving there it's about
10 minutes from my house and I'm driving
there I feel like I'm this is all part
of the buildup to earn that feeling that
I have when I hit stop on my watch at
the end of the long
run what what so I I definitely think
this idea of write of Passage I need to
earn the feeling and I know the feeling
that's on the other side of doing the
work doing the run so I know the feeling
so I'm prepared to go through the writer
passage what I'm interested in Mark is
do you try and take what you've built as
a sort of atomic habits if you will from
your swimming and doing the work and
feeling the resistance yet still going
through it do you try and take that
either directly or indirectly into
non-athletic Pursuits with your work
with friendships with chores around the
house like do you are you able to
transfer
that 100% And I I'm
reminded daily when there are struggles
or sorry better said when there are
moments of resistance in my day maybe it
is starting a brand new project or maybe
it is having to go out and do something
that I'm not really in the mood for
maybe I'm a bit tired maybe I'm you know
a bit lethargic and I don't necessarily
want to go out and be exposed to
whatever that situation is I will 100%
think oh well you know what well there's
two things I'll think one hey you've got
in the ocean and you've swam before
that's pretty good if you can do that
you know you can probably accomplish
something else but I think as a build to
what you're you're saying here
absolutely there are patterns
and habits that I will notice within the
way that I'm feeling or thinking again
that I'll know if I think about in the
long run it will be beneficial to me
right so sometimes let's say you've got
back from a long flight or maybe it's
been a very very busy week you've
prescheduled maybe a breakfast or you
know a dinner or a drink or or a hangout
an exercise with one of your your
buddies your friends and you kind of
think ah you know is this really
something that I can be bothered to do
that's again that signpost of resistance
saying nah you don't really want to have
to go out and do it right when I know
for a fact much like the experience of
feeling good after a bit of exercise or
after a bit of stress from that
resistance pushing against resistance
you're going to feel good you will get
something out of it and that's
ultimately what we're all here to do
isn't it yeah and you're right it is
interesting having gone through
different practices of resistance
training so to speak because you can
align it with different practices and
different disciplines yes and similar to
what we were finding in pressfield's
book last week it is interesting to see
this advice that he's got on creativity
crossing over into the sports space
crossing over into you know the um the
business space marketing space you know
it is almost transferable isn't it well
I think it is and I think it's one of
the things we've discovered on the
moonshots podcast is that there are
these rules which are like do the most
important stuff in the morning focused
on the one thing that matters
um there's a whole series of patterns
that whether we're looking at Serena
Williams Michael Jordan Jeff Bezos it is
crazy athletes academics business people
authors the same basic set of rules
apply you can see like there is a
formula to their success they're like
these success habits one of which I
think we should add is being a member of
the moonshots podcast Mark oh big time
if there are individuals that are out
there who are practicing with us and
learning out loud alongside the
moonshots crew those are our members M
so welcome in please Bob Niles I trip
dietar marang Conor Lisa and Sid Mr
bonjour Berg and cman Joe Christian
samella and Barbara Deb lass Steven
Craig Ravi evver R and nicada Ingram
Durk vanut and Marco jet Roger Stefan
raw niman Diana Kristoff Denise Laura
Smitty Corey and Daniela Mike and
Antonio high five to you guys always
learning out loud with us for Beyond a
year alongside Zachary Austin Fred and
Ola Andy Diana Margie and Ron Jasper
Fabian and guhong guys High FES and Good
Vibes to all of you for joining us day
in day out on the moonshots podcast
thank you for learning out loud with us
and for practicing great habit and
resistance training yes exactly now
let's talk about that resistance Mark
so you've started on something creative
and
challenging and of course I think one of
the biggest fears if we admit some of
our darkest secret marks you don't want
to be like an Australian break dancer at
the Olympics
right you don't want to put yourself out
there and get a ton of
criticism and so in order to avoid that
I think we try to polish the work almost
immediately don't we but actually
pressfield has got some advice to get
through this and I think it's really
powerful in getting us started and not
bogged down so why don't you unleash
this second clip from pressf y you're
totally right this is a problem that I
know for a fact I have faced many many
times and I'm sure a lot of our
listeners and members have too so let's
hear this time a new voice from Nate
Gillan he's going to interpret one of
pressfield's uh tips and ideas from
within do the work and that's all about
revising later we can always revise once
we've acted but we can accomplish
nothing until we Act pressfield is
pushing this do first revised ler
mentality call it analysis paralysis
call it too much research call it
whatever you want a lot of times we
spend more time planning than we do
doing that is doing the actual work that
needs to be done you might be thinking
of the logistics of starting a business
or a new project in the community you
might be outlining to your heart's
content uh on a book or a movie but
outlines and ideas and research don't
equate to actually writing the piece in
this case research can actually become
resistance we should all read to learn
up on whatever sort of subject we're
interested in however when it comes to
reading about your craft uh reading
about the thing you want to do uh
pressfield actually says that you should
read three books Max and don't highlight
don't note take don't do anything just
read them have them in your head and
then go forth with doing the
action yeah so it's interesting isn't it
like um I
think in an effort to feel more
confident about our work we almost over
prepare we almost over
poolish when really what we just need to
do is get going how do you when when
when they talk about this moment how do
you see it for yourself and how do you
kind of avoid revising now and how do
you kind of move to a more of a Revis it
later mentality yeah you know what I'm
that clip reminded me it was quite a few
years ago now but I remember having to
uh try and plan my wedding and that felt
like a huge so separate to obviously a
work project it was something you know
in vertigon as extracurricular or
personal and I remember thinking this is
huge I don't know where to I don't know
where to start here who do I contact
First there's too many things you know
what the wedding's off uh let's break up
that's it game
over but instead I remember thinking
okay well there is a lot to do here so
why don't I just do something you know
let's choose something well let's think
about the band or let's find the venue
let's do some research and let's contact
a few people let's not be too strict
let's not create a long list of 15
places and then write out the pros and
cons let's just start fishing you know
let's put a few feelers out there and
that could be I think the same if you're
considering maybe a house purchase maybe
even you're looking at sending your kids
to school or as we're learning and
specifically focusing on today a project
like a creative Endeavor it's better to
just pick something and get the ball
rolling and I think Mike you know we've
referenced this probably in the past
that first stage of moving you know a
big boulder is really really hard isn't
it unless you get the momentum going
that seems
unsurmountable uh insurmountable and it
feels way too heavy and you can be
totally put off and as we were hearing
from that first clip it's easy to find
the signs uh that point out resistance
and you say you know what this is
impossible I can't do it somebody else
can but it's not for me and instead just
choosing something to get that little
bit of momentum going such as writing it
down putting it out there and saying
right that was the first draft yeah yes
now let's later it's such a relief
because you feel as though you've
accomplished something don't you yeah
and and to build on that you often once
you do break through and do get started
everything starts to kind of come
together like you get your
momentum one might say you get the
confidence right yes yeah big time I
think like we were talking about in in
that first clip this idea of um
resistance being predictable is down
from um that gives you that confidence
like you say and that hero's journey or
that feeling that you're alone in the
experience is a real sap on your
confidence and it creates that sort of
anxiety doesn't it and you're right if
you get to do something whatever it
might be and you just start that little
tick internally you kind of think oh you
know what I did all right yes I can't
believe I've written the first word or
the first chapter yeah or skeleton plan
or a contents content a table of
contents yes even something as tangible
as that and small as that is is helpful
isn't it yeah like I have this thing
that if I notice myself procrastinating
on something like I'll set up the
folders or I'll set up a document or
I'll ask chat GPT for for an outline
like I try and do medial tasks to kind
of shift me into the zone so like a like
a simple thing um might be
if I need to write a long document
report plan or
presentation thinking about like the
table of contents as you mentioned I
find as very provocative I don't
actually have to write the first page I
just think about well what would be the
main 10 points I need to make and um I
must say that I find chat GPT as a very
good co-conspirator on work right for
example I was recently
um thinking about uh a piece of work
around product Market fit for creating
new products and I was thinking to
myself I wonder if there's a way to make
like a universal set of rules regardless
of the product how do you know when
you've got product Market fit and um I
was thinking about some things and I
asked chat GPT and it gives me so many
answers some I don't like but some I do
and then I'm like oh that's interesting
let let's apply that so it almost
becomes like a creative partner because
I can entertain crazy and interesting
ideas with chat GPT and I said okay take
that model and apply it to this industry
or this company and it gives me crazy
ideas the thing is like it's relatively
low effort but high on
inspiration so so that becomes like
really exciting for me because I like I
see things I like I see see things I
don't like and it starts it kind of
clicks me into gear and I start going
now specific to revising later I have a
thing that I learned Julia Cameron
artist Pages she's like just go for it I
turn off my grammarly because it's
trying to correct my grammar and here's
what I notice Mark if I'm not careful
I've written a paragraph of my journal
but then I see the red and green lines
where it wants to improve my
grammar and I've learned to turn off
grammarly because it changes my mode I
go into editor reviser have up here but
the whole purpose to artist Pages or
morning pages is to just pour it all out
like subconscious flow so you're not
looking to dot the eyes and cross the
te's so that's just a simple hack that
I've got for like turning off grammar
control just so I get it all out I don't
want to see any squiggly lines under my
words I just want to get it out
I'm guilty Mike of Leaning into
pragmatism and trying to you know make
solve the the problem and you're right
that for me is when I've planned out a
project in the past I'll get stuck in
the weeds you know at the very early
point I'll be thinking a yeah but how
could we possibly make this idea happen
we're going to need um let's say an
event producer we're going to need to
fly somebody in we're going to need to
do X Y or Zed and I think okay well we
don't need need to get this deep into
things right now because those things
will sort themselves out later instead
let's plot uh plot down everything that
I think is going to be needed and you're
right chat gbt a great creative partner
and it does help you get started and
it's a great way of stress testing you
know where do I need to start what do I
need to consider yeah when does the SWAT
analysis need to be considered when
should I consider maybe the competitive
analysis but just jotting it all down
and thinking okay well let's kind of
throw the kitchen sink at it at least
initially you can then cut you know in
my experience it's a lot easier to trim
down than to try and beef up yes now
that's not always useful I remember when
I was back at University my dissertation
I think I wrote maybe 30% too many words
and that active the act of distillation
from that point was very very
challenging so I'm not advising people
to you know throw absolutely everything
at it but you're right by starting by
getting things down by maybe stress
testing a little bit with a
co-conspirator whether that's AI or your
partner in
business that then helps you kind of
make that huge Target a lot smaller and
suddenly you can start focusing in on
exactly what it is that you want to go
out and deliver and I think that once
you get something on paper you instantly
respond to it so when you write a table
of contents with your 10 bullets you at
it and go oh no I really need a case
study or I really need this and then all
of a sudden things start moving you're
you're like yep I know what I want to
create here starts to come together and
what I find Mark is when I've got that
table of contents fleshed out I can't
wait to produce that piece of work it's
like almost
like I can't um like I've crossed a
threshold because I can see it in my
mind so now I just want to make it
create whatever it is so this is why
postponing revising uh until later you
can always polish at the end get it out
and somehow you'll cross a a point it's
like a Tipping Point where it propels
you forward yes I know what I want to
create I know what I want to do now the
interesting thing is though you might
revise at some point at the latter end
but pressfield has a little warning for
us Mark um about this kind of backend
stage of producing work work and I think
it's very important companion if we're
going to get started and then revise it
later he's got another big thought for
us doesn't he that's right there's
always going to be a next stage once
you've started the project and that's
going to be towards the end so let's
hear from Brian Johnson who's going to
break down Steven pri's invaluable piece
of advice here with regards to shipping
the work now the beginning was
incredibly important but if you do all
the work and you don't bring it to the
market you don't give it to the world
you don't ship as Seth Goden says and it
doesn't matter just sitting there
Gathering dust on your desk it's really
hard for a lot of people once they've
done the work to put themselves out
there that's that's torture right the
fear of can be torture the fear of what
people are going to say and how they're
going to respond to all this work can
stop us from actually bringing our work
to life shipping it is huge ship ship
ship and there's the big ship right of
launching a play on Broadway or whatever
big project you have but there's all the
little micr ships in the process that
make that happen so the little baby
steps that you could take but you don't
take right there's an email that you
need to send but you got a little bit of
fear you don't know how the person's
going to respond or you need to reach
out to someone or you need to update
your website copy or you need to post
this blog that you've been holding on to
ship ship ship ship in the note I talk
about the fact that every single time I
do one of these there are moments where
it's obviously not perfect and there's a
big part of my perfectionistic self AKA
resistance that doesn't want to ship I
don't want to do anything that's less
than perfect and my discipline is ship
ship consistently finish and get it out
finish and get it out and know that as I
embrace that process over time there's
the opportunity to grow and to get
better and better and better now
different things demand different levels
of quality right but we want to
discipline ourselves to ship so check in
on your life and see if you are not
shipping as often as you can is there
something in your life that you haven't
shipped on that you can go ahead and
step into how can you build your
shipping muscles make it a practice iniz
yourself from the fear and the pain that
comes every time you put yourself out
there you do it and you stretch yourself
a little bit past your comfort Z and
what used to freak you out doesn't freak
you out
anymore oh boy so shipping the work um I
I want to do something fun here Mark um
I think what we want to do is think
about what is our greatest fear when we
have to press the button when it says
publish right I want to take you to that
moment and what I'm G to do is I'm gonna
I'm G to read a list to you
and your fun exercise is to grab this
Gremlin by the neck which one of these
do you think is the overall biggest fear
the biggest resistance of pressing ship
pressing publish not only for yourself
but all your work colleagues all your
professional experience what do you
think most people fear the most here we
go
so these are the things that scare the
hell out of us when we have to ship
number one fear of rejection two
impostor syndrome three oh big one as
Brian just said
Perfection four fear of being
misunderstood five fear of losing
control six now this is interesting fear
of
success seven fear of vulnerability
eight fear of irrelevance and last fear
oh this one's good fear of finality it's
done what oh you know what um actually
so all of those uh nine or 10 options
you know straightaway rejection fear of
what people are thinking of me for my
work that imposter syndrome more and
more I'm hearing from colleagues around
me saying I I'm I'm in this situation
but you know I kind of feel like I've
got imposter syndrome all the way down
to vulnerability we know with Bren Brown
that's a huge um well it's a huge
vulnerability so to speak that finality
one I think has come up before possibly
with Austin CLE whereby you're worried
about completing the work because you
don't know what to do next right so you
you want to put it off because you don't
necessarily you're worried about maybe
being a success afterwards and what I
mean by that is how do you follow up on
that other success maybe we saw a little
bit of that with goggin's second book
yeah do you remember great terminology
where he was saying you know I I I
realized I wasn't pushing myself as much
as I was you know communicating in that
first book so maybe that's uh possibly
not the biggest thing that puts people
off I think that's probably quite a
niche but very relevant one I would say
Mike the Misunderstood ele
and the rejection is probably the things
that I would see the most
of why don't should yeah what do you
think I mean definitely the fear of
rejection has to be a big one for all of
us like no one wants to be the one where
everyone's like oh that's terrible um
what I think here though is what's so
interesting when we call out that list
is when we experience things such as
you've got to press the butt but but
you've got fear of
rejection losing control fear of
success all of those
things you have the chance now in
studying this book by Steven pressfield
in fact by listening to our show
watching our show you know that it is
natural and predictable to feel this so
it's okay you don't have
to be victim to these
thoughts you can just go H I must be
putting my myself out there a little bit
this must be a bit of a stretch goal
because I'm feeling a little
uncomfortable yeah yeah and here's the
kicker and that's okay that's okay
that's okay right good as Yoko would
always say oh yeah that's good and I
think like you know we've said that
before that's the superpower if you can
change your mindset towards kind of
embracing those moments where you feel a
little bit uncomfortable and you think
hey I I I'm G to be learning from this
mhm because it is different to the easy
path that sometimes is laid out you know
those moments of imposter syndrome
control loss the fear of vulnerability
you know those are the moments when you
sort of test yourself isn't it yeah and
you realize hey you know I I can be a
little bit less vulnerable next time
what a great opportunity in life to go
out an experience yeah so you know for
example um many I've got a list here of
famous people who've been successful
despite EXP experiencing those feelings
stepen King his uh his novel carry was
rejected 30 times before it was
published I didn't know that yeah that's
that's interesting isn't it and wait for
this one Da Vinci spent years refining
the moon Alisa and left many Works
unfinished because he couldn't satisfy
his own standards not realizing he was
making the world's most famous artwork
yeah and one that will always be you
know discussed and considered with
regards to th those small uh elements
like the smile yep yep JK Rowling and
the artist Prince uh talked often about
feeling uh misunderstood or a loss of
control Oprah talked about the burden of
trying to be successful a second time
and talked about how that was hard so
that's really interesting even beyon has
talked about her fear of putting herself
out there par particularly when she did
really personal work you know songs and
albums that were really personal to her
so despite all her amazing talented
success she does a personal work and
that she feels that critique of that
work is a critique of her yeah so
despite all of that she had to push
through that so I think what's powerful
here is to remember everyone experiences
these sorts of feelings and it's okay
and the key thing is don't give in to
them right yeah big time and look again
I'm reminded of Elon Musk um you know
there will be moments in his life and
his career where he could have analysis
paralysis and lean away from let's say
entering to the Space Race and instead
what did he do well he he gave it a go
anyway and now we're in this very
exciting time of of you know getting
into the stars and so on without having
that drive without having that resil
that resilience to
resistance we probably wouldn't see you
know SpaceX and so on growing in the way
that it is well remember Marx he was
critiqued for the idea of reusable
rockets and now he does them all the
time and everyone's like yeah that's
great that's amazing cool but actually
he was criticized for even having the
idea and you can imagine the amount of
naysayers providing Maybe different
legal advice cost advice um how you do
you do it and so on social economic
advice and instead of finding the
analysis paralysis throughout all of
that oh just get it out there see what
happens learn and Bezos has this thought
like if you're not pissing a few people
off then you're not trying hard enough
like like you got to be upsetting the
apple cart come on right yeah so that
resistance as you as you pointed out to
rejection that idea of being
misunderstood
you know with Daniel Pink's um the power
of regret you know one of the key
concerns that people had when they were
approaching you know their final few
days was not having spend enough time
with family and maybe um that refusal to
try something a little bit new a little
bit harder yeah and maybe you know this
idea of trying something new releasing
something that you've created you know
those are new experiences that are going
to feel pretty uncomfortable at least um
for for most of us until you start doing
it again and again and get a little bit
more comfortable until then yeah we're
all experiencing the same discomfort and
the same pain yeah yeah yeah
um now we're not quite done with Mr
pressfield but he's got some interesting
thoughts about body parts though
Mark what a teasing uh uh reveal of this
final clip that we've got today on the
episode for do the work by Steven
pressfield we've heard Mike as you say
this idea of resistance this idea of um
just getting started pushing something
out there as well as this idea of you
know finally shipping it this closing
clip that we got from Stephen is a great
demonstration of the character of
pressfield but also an idea on
prioritization and as he's going to tell
us putting your ass where your heart
wants to
be sometimes when we can't get ourselves
started on something or when we want to
make a change in our life and we just
can't sort of figure out what the first
step is there's a there's a phrase that
I use sometimes I think is right very
helpful and on target and the phrase is
put your ass where your heart wants to
be and what I mean by that is if you
want to be a
writer sit down in front of the keyboard
if you want to learn to play the piano
you know sit down in front of that
keyboard if you want to dance get into
the studio if you want to paint get up
before an easel um or if you want to be
a mountain biker get a bike and actually
get out on the trail even if you don't
know what you're doing even if you can't
you don't know how to start there's
something about the physical act of
putting your body in a place where your
dreams can happen that creates a kind of
a magic and the uh the second aspect of
that is don't just put your ass where
your heart wants to be once put it today
put it tomorrow put it the next day put
it the next day in the continuity of
that there's tremendous power but just
simply making that first move to sit
down in front of the keyboard and just
say to yourself I'm not getting up for
the next two hours I don't care what I
do I don't care how bad it is I'm
putting my ass here and I'm going to do
my work whatever it is and there truly
is a kind of a magic anybody who's read
my stuff or knows my stuff I believe
that there's another dimension of
reality and that there are uh Muses and
so on and so forth in that dimension of
reality and that they see us when we sit
down and I can remember when years ago I
really wanted to get into going to the
gym but I was totally intimidated by it
you know you walk you go past a place
you see these big muscle men and these
women that like could lift five times
whatever I could and I just couldn't
make myself do it and finally one day I
did put my ass where my heart wanted to
be and I found that once I was once I
had crossed the threshold and was
actually in this environment then I it
wasn't that hard and the second day was
easier and the third day was easier so
if you want to be a writer sit down at
the typewriter you know if you want to
be a painter stand up before for that
easel if you want to start a new
business get the LLC or do whatever it
is you need to do to get there put your
ass where your heart wants to
be it's so good like this is
literally pressfield going Goggins on us
right yeah it is you're right yeah yeah
yeah he's going full goggin In that clip
total like coach in the locker room
moment um so so here's the thing like I
ly think about all the great habit
design uh study that we've
done and to build on this idea of
putting yourself where you want to be
like if you want to write a book then
you need to be in front of that keyboard
at the same time every single morning I
would even build on that I would say you
need to listen to the same music at the
same time drink the same coffee build
the ritual right I'm having the coffee
I'm listening to the music time to write
I'm sitting at the desk time to write
I've done my notes on the pad time to
write like build the ritual because what
happens is the more you do that the more
you are hardcoding this practice into
your habits because I believe when it
goes full
circle what was originally novel and new
becomes so much of your routine that
when you don't do it it becomes
weird when you don't put your ass where
your heart wants to be it then feels
weird and that's when you know you've
built the habit of success that you've
ingrained it so much for me got to be in
bed by 10 p.m. just got it right for me
there are so many things in my morning
ritual that get me going
that they become automated that is just
how I come to life in the mornings
working on the most important things
before lunch crucial for me these are
all things listening to Theta beater
Wave Music no vocals very specific
frequencies even like this is just
training myself I'm going to crush it
deep work here we go right so I think if
you're dreaming of
running put on your sneakers and start
the slowest jog in the world and before
you know it you'll you're running like a
demon same thing with with if you want
to be an artist or a musician get
yourself in front of it because how can
you not do it if you've got your running
shoes on and you've left the house like
yeah okay well I may as well run now
even though I'm scared to death of doing
it right you may as well like you can't
I think I think it's too easy if you're
dreaming of running but you're sitting
inside that's like there's so many
barriers between you and running right
get yourself out of the house quickly
right
yeah absolutely I mean look going back
to the swimming example I was sharing
earlier that my dream there was to go
and swim across Bondo you know I thought
that must be impossible who can do that
you do it once and you think ohy this is
amazing you know and by going out and as
Stephen would say just putting yourself
in that situation exposing yourself to
it rather than procrastinating again and
again you're right by doing it once
maybe twice another time another time it
becomes easier and easier and easier and
that habit is is slowly formed over time
but this idea of procrastination you
know we've certainly heard today a few
of those tips on how to to get around it
but I think Mike as Stephen would say
it's just the act of doing it isn't it
just putting yourself in there and again
Daniel pink comes back to my mind I
don't want to get in my life where I get
to a point where I think oh you know I
wish I'd given that dream a go you know
wish I'd dedicated five minutes a day to
work on my journal or you know 30
minutes in my mornings to really work on
that book that I always dreamed about
writing but then never did because I
didn't prioritize it I think the the
people who go out there and live their
dreams are the ones that kind of make it
happen because I guess who else is going
to make your dream happen than yourself
right no one else is going to create it
for you no that's absolutely right so
setting yourself up for success
you know putting your ass where your
heart wants to be well that's a good
sign off from Mr prfi don't don't you
think I mean come on this is like get to
it now though the big question really is
Mark what are you gonna get to what's
your go-to topic what's your follow-up
subject I'm a big fan of Revis later you
know I I think we we have spoken about
the idea of table of contents and
jotting down you know a skeleton in the
past I'm a firm believer that that is a
way for me to kind of
jot out the journey and knowing where
the destination could be in order to
make things happen but the actual
physical thing of being comfortable with
revising later that's the key that I
want to get comfortable with not having
that fear of being misunderstood at that
early stage because I know that I'm G to
come back and revise it later what about
you Mike four big Ideas couple of very
practical tips
today yeah I kind of like all of them I
I'm struggling to pick my favorite one I
think it's just been the perfect
companion to understanding that there is
resistance in the last show and now
we've kind of picked up from there and
said okay so what do we need to do if we
acknowledge that to be true what happens
now and I love like getting started
revising later shipping the work and
setting you I can't choose so I'm just
going to have to focus on the
more well that's okay you've done the
work so that's fine okay I appreciate
the permission I want to say thank you
to you Mark and thank you to you our
listeners our viewers and especially to
our members here for show
265 where we study do the work by Mr
Steven pressfield our second book by Mr
pressfield and boy did we get down to
some work we understood that there are
going to be predictable moments of
resistance and it's okay everybody has
them so you can get started and Revis
later and remember don't revise yourself
to death ship the work get yourself out
there in the world and as you go on to
create more and more work make sure you
put your ass where your heart is do this
and you will be the best version of
yourself and you can do that right here
you can learn out loud here on the
moonshots podcast that's a wrap